Ajax makes a round trip doesn't it?

[needin4mation]

I understand this is a asp.net group, but thought I would post this
here for comments. I admit I have used this post in another group, but
it has less traffic. Here's to hoping I'm just blind to the obvious:

I have been reading a lot about AJAX. I want to use it and will. But
I keep reading about how it doesn't make a roundtrip to the server, no
postback, etc. But isn't the truth that *something* makes a trip to
the server? It may be int the background, but there still is a trip to
the server to retrieve data, so I'm not real sure of the benefit.
Again, I think I see the light (and I realize ajax isn't correct for
every problems), but I'm not quite sure.

For example, say I have a zip code and when I choose that zip code the
proper city comes up. I could do that with a roundtrip/postback to the
server - the whole page and get the correct cities, or I can keep the
current page and in the background have the correct city come up.

But what is the benefit here? It still takes the same amount of time
to gather the data, maybe? It's just chunked up so that it doesn't
feel as long? Believe me. I'm no knocking Ajax, just trying to
understand and justify it. Hey, it's neat.

[Shawn Wildermuth]

Hello ne***********@gmail.com,

The benefit in Ajax (and where Ajax makes sense...it isn't everywhere) is
the ability to improve the user experience. Now, when a postback happens,
the entire page is reprocessed and the html is re-delivered to the client
(with any changes). Ajax allows you to do the round-trips to the server
with only the data that you really need. For example, with maps.google.com.
It asks for new images for parts of maps you are looking at behind the scene.
In the old days, you would repost the whole page and the experience for
the user was more more jumbled. I think Ajax has a future, but in truth...we've
done Ajax for years...we are now finally getting a framework (Atlas I think?)
to do some of the heavy lifting.

Thanks,
Shawn Wildermuth
Speaker, Author and C# MVP

I understand this is a asp.net group, but thought I would post this
here for comments. I admit I have used this post in another group,
but it has less traffic. Here's to hoping I'm just blind to the
obvious:

I have been reading a lot about AJAX. I want to use it and will. But
I keep reading about how it doesn't make a roundtrip to the server, no
postback, etc. But isn't the truth that *something* makes a trip to
the server? It may be int the background, but there still is a trip
to the server to retrieve data, so I'm not real sure of the benefit.
Again, I think I see the light (and I realize ajax isn't correct for
every problems), but I'm not quite sure.

For example, say I have a zip code and when I choose that zip code the
proper city comes up. I could do that with a roundtrip/postback to
the server - the whole page and get the correct cities, or I can keep
the current page and in the background have the correct city come up.

But what is the benefit here? It still takes the same amount of time
to gather the data, maybe? It's just chunked up so that it doesn't
feel as long? Believe me. I'm no knocking Ajax, just trying to
understand and justify it. Hey, it's neat.

[Lau Lei Cheong]

I'm new to the idea of Ajax (I know it's a hot topic sometime before, but
somehow I just ignored the topics.). But it just sounds like having a
<iframe> for updating data will do the similar thing, won't it?

"Shawn Wildermuth" <sw*********@newsgroup.nospam>
???????:fc*************************@msnews.microso ft.com...

Hello ne***********@gmail.com,

The benefit in Ajax (and where Ajax makes sense...it isn't everywhere) is
the ability to improve the user experience. Now, when a postback happens,
the entire page is reprocessed and the html is re-delivered to the client
(with any changes). Ajax allows you to do the round-trips to the server
with only the data that you really need. For example, with
maps.google.com. It asks for new images for parts of maps you are looking
at behind the scene. In the old days, you would repost the whole page and
the experience for the user was more more jumbled. I think Ajax has a
future, but in truth...we've done Ajax for years...we are now finally
getting a framework (Atlas I think?) to do some of the heavy lifting.

Thanks,
Shawn Wildermuth
Speaker, Author and C# MVP

I understand this is a asp.net group, but thought I would post this
here for comments. I admit I have used this post in another group,
but it has less traffic. Here's to hoping I'm just blind to the
obvious:

I have been reading a lot about AJAX. I want to use it and will. But
I keep reading about how it doesn't make a roundtrip to the server, no
postback, etc. But isn't the truth that *something* makes a trip to
the server? It may be int the background, but there still is a trip
to the server to retrieve data, so I'm not real sure of the benefit.
Again, I think I see the light (and I realize ajax isn't correct for
every problems), but I'm not quite sure.

For example, say I have a zip code and when I choose that zip code the
proper city comes up. I could do that with a roundtrip/postback to
the server - the whole page and get the correct cities, or I can keep
the current page and in the background have the correct city come up.

But what is the benefit here? It still takes the same amount of time
to gather the data, maybe? It's just chunked up so that it doesn't
feel as long? Believe me. I'm no knocking Ajax, just trying to
understand and justify it. Hey, it's neat.

[Scott Mitchell [MVP]]

A good summary on AJAX can be found at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AJAX

Personally, I like a lot of things about AJAX (the improved response,
the seamless user experience, etc.), but if it's not done right there
can be some big pains, like lack of bookmarkability, back button not
working as expected, and so on.


ne***********@gmail.com wrote:

I understand this is a asp.net group, but thought I would post this
here for comments. I admit I have used this post in another group, but
it has less traffic. Here's to hoping I'm just blind to the obvious:

I have been reading a lot about AJAX. I want to use it and will. But
I keep reading about how it doesn't make a roundtrip to the server, no
postback, etc. But isn't the truth that *something* makes a trip to
the server? It may be int the background, but there still is a trip to
the server to retrieve data, so I'm not real sure of the benefit.
Again, I think I see the light (and I realize ajax isn't correct for
every problems), but I'm not quite sure.

For example, say I have a zip code and when I choose that zip code the
proper city comes up. I could do that with a roundtrip/postback to the
server - the whole page and get the correct cities, or I can keep the
current page and in the background have the correct city come up.

But what is the benefit here? It still takes the same amount of time
to gather the data, maybe? It's just chunked up so that it doesn't
feel as long? Believe me. I'm no knocking Ajax, just trying to
understand and justify it. Hey, it's neat.

--

Scott Mitchell [ASP.NET MVP]
mi******@4GuysFromRolla.com
http://www.4GuysFromRolla.com/ScottMitchell

[Shawn Wildermuth]

Sure, if you want a whole section to work in an IFrame. It's simply using
JScript to load data from teh server. NOt rocket science.

Thanks,
Shawn Wildermuth
Speaker, Author and C# MVP

I'm new to the idea of Ajax (I know it's a hot topic sometime before,
but somehow I just ignored the topics.). But it just sounds like
having a <iframe> for updating data will do the similar thing, won't
it?

"Shawn Wildermuth" <sw*********@newsgroup.nospam>
???????:fc*************************@msnews.microso ft.com...

Hello ne***********@gmail.com,

The benefit in Ajax (and where Ajax makes sense...it isn't
everywhere) is the ability to improve the user experience. Now, when
a postback happens, the entire page is reprocessed and the html is
re-delivered to the client (with any changes). Ajax allows you to do
the round-trips to the server with only the data that you really
need. For example, with maps.google.com. It asks for new images for
parts of maps you are looking at behind the scene. In the old days,
you would repost the whole page and the experience for the user was
more more jumbled. I think Ajax has a future, but in truth...we've
done Ajax for years...we are now finally getting a framework (Atlas I
think?) to do some of the heavy lifting.

Thanks,
Shawn Wildermuth
Speaker, Author and C# MVP

I understand this is a asp.net group, but thought I would post this
here for comments. I admit I have used this post in another group,
but it has less traffic. Here's to hoping I'm just blind to the
obvious:

I have been reading a lot about AJAX. I want to use it and will.
But I keep reading about how it doesn't make a roundtrip to the
server, no postback, etc. But isn't the truth that *something*
makes a trip to the server? It may be int the background, but there
still is a trip to the server to retrieve data, so I'm not real sure
of the benefit. Again, I think I see the light (and I realize ajax
isn't correct for every problems), but I'm not quite sure.

For example, say I have a zip code and when I choose that zip code
the proper city comes up. I could do that with a roundtrip/postback
to the server - the whole page and get the correct cities, or I can
keep the current page and in the background have the correct city
come up.

But what is the benefit here? It still takes the same amount of
time to gather the data, maybe? It's just chunked up so that it
doesn't feel as long? Believe me. I'm no knocking Ajax, just
trying to understand and justify it. Hey, it's neat.

[Mr Newbie]

I used to use Ajax to clean my toilet. Sounds like nothing much has changed
!

;o)


"Shawn Wildermuth" <sw*********@newsgroup.nospam> wrote in message
news:fc*************************@msnews.microsoft. com...

Sure, if you want a whole section to work in an IFrame. It's simply using
JScript to load data from teh server. NOt rocket science.

Thanks,
Shawn Wildermuth
Speaker, Author and C# MVP

I'm new to the idea of Ajax (I know it's a hot topic sometime before,
but somehow I just ignored the topics.). But it just sounds like
having a <iframe> for updating data will do the similar thing, won't
it?

"Shawn Wildermuth" <sw*********@newsgroup.nospam>
???????:fc*************************@msnews.microso ft.com...

Hello ne***********@gmail.com,

The benefit in Ajax (and where Ajax makes sense...it isn't
everywhere) is the ability to improve the user experience. Now, when
a postback happens, the entire page is reprocessed and the html is
re-delivered to the client (with any changes). Ajax allows you to do
the round-trips to the server with only the data that you really
need. For example, with maps.google.com. It asks for new images for
parts of maps you are looking at behind the scene. In the old days,
you would repost the whole page and the experience for the user was
more more jumbled. I think Ajax has a future, but in truth...we've
done Ajax for years...we are now finally getting a framework (Atlas I
think?) to do some of the heavy lifting.

Thanks,
Shawn Wildermuth
Speaker, Author and C# MVP
I understand this is a asp.net group, but thought I would post this
here for comments. I admit I have used this post in another group,
but it has less traffic. Here's to hoping I'm just blind to the
obvious:

I have been reading a lot about AJAX. I want to use it and will.
But I keep reading about how it doesn't make a roundtrip to the
server, no postback, etc. But isn't the truth that *something*
makes a trip to the server? It may be int the background, but there
still is a trip to the server to retrieve data, so I'm not real sure
of the benefit. Again, I think I see the light (and I realize ajax
isn't correct for every problems), but I'm not quite sure.

For example, say I have a zip code and when I choose that zip code
the proper city comes up. I could do that with a roundtrip/postback
to the server - the whole page and get the correct cities, or I can
keep the current page and in the background have the correct city
come up.

But what is the benefit here? It still takes the same amount of
time to gather the data, maybe? It's just chunked up so that it
doesn't feel as long? Believe me. I'm no knocking Ajax, just
trying to understand and justify it. Hey, it's neat.

[needin4mation]

Isn't it less secure since they can see what page you are calling in
the background and your querystring?

[Lau Lei Cheong]

I'm talking about using javascript to control it, of course.

and the page returned doesn't necessary contain visualable elements. A page
full of hidden box, or just 1 hidden box with hex-encoded content will do
the job for most case.

I haven't tried the crazy idea to change to handler of .js to
aspnet_isapi.dll in order to have some dynamically generated .js files for
<script> tag, but I believe that there are some chance of success (although
the browser may just ignore the javascript file change once the script is
loaded)

Seems there's all sorts of crazy implementation to do the task before Ajax.

<ne***********@gmail.com>
???????:11**********************@g43g2000cwa.googl egroups.com...

Isn't it less secure since they can see what page you are calling in
the background and your querystring?

[MatHertel]

Yes there is a roundtrip for every AJAX action and there tend to be many of
them.

The benefit is that there is no HTML, GIF, CSS, JavaScript-Includes...
loading when using theses roundtrips so they are small, fast and asynchronous
(not blocking).
Calling a server using AJAX is like requesting a very specific question
(like : give me the newest information).
Using classic web applications with standard ASP.NET, JSP and Struts, PHP,
.... you always ask for "everything" (like: give me the web form for the
ticket system, including the newest information).

From an academic perspective: It's a better separation of model view and
controller.

Have a look at http://mathertel.devhost1.centron.ne...e/Default.aspx
"ne***********@gmail.com" wrote:

I understand this is a asp.net group, but thought I would post this
here for comments. I admit I have used this post in another group, but
it has less traffic. Here's to hoping I'm just blind to the obvious:

I have been reading a lot about AJAX. I want to use it and will. But
I keep reading about how it doesn't make a roundtrip to the server, no
postback, etc. But isn't the truth that *something* makes a trip to
the server? It may be int the background, but there still is a trip to
the server to retrieve data, so I'm not real sure of the benefit.
Again, I think I see the light (and I realize ajax isn't correct for
every problems), but I'm not quite sure.

For example, say I have a zip code and when I choose that zip code the
proper city comes up. I could do that with a roundtrip/postback to the
server - the whole page and get the correct cities, or I can keep the
current page and in the background have the correct city come up.

But what is the benefit here? It still takes the same amount of time
to gather the data, maybe? It's just chunked up so that it doesn't
feel as long? Believe me. I'm no knocking Ajax, just trying to
understand and justify it. Hey, it's neat.