Web vs Windows Application

[Seth Bourne]

It is really painfull when migrating from Windows Application to Web
Application. it's because web application has so many weakness which have
the user to use 'more mouse' than 'keyboard' it self. it's really dont fit
for Point of Sale System which is need faster data entry. is it anyway we
can handle this ??

Thanks
Seth

[GaryDean]

You might want to look into "ClickOnce" which is viable now in closed
organizational environments. Or you might want to look at the July CTP of
Atlas classes that implement AJAX that make the web experience smoother. I
have a couople of demos of AJAX at my website - one with and one without
Atlas.

--
Regards,
Gary Blakely
Dean Blakely & Associates
www.deanblakely.com
"Seth Bourne" <se*****@yahoo. comwrote in message
news:u4******** *****@TK2MSFTNG P06.phx.gbl...

It is really painfull when migrating from Windows Application to Web
Application. it's because web application has so many weakness which have
the user to use 'more mouse' than 'keyboard' it self. it's really dont fit
for Point of Sale System which is need faster data entry. is it anyway we
can handle this ??

Thanks
Seth

[Tim_Mac]

hi Seth,
you're absolutely right, a windows application can have a vastly superior
interface because it is not restricted to the limited web control set, as
well as being free of the form-postback model which can be difficult to work
with.

however having said all that, i have designed large scale data entry
applications based on web forms. if you code it right it can be very quick.
several people use the app all day every day and they have got very quick
using it. e.g. when a user saves a form, instead of showing a message
"Thank you" and then getting them to click to enter a new form, i have found
it faster to show a javascript alert (easy to dismiss by hitting 'Enter')
and then redirect the user automatically to enter another of the same form.
also, make sure to use the TabOrder properties of the input controls because
data entry people generally use these extensively to reduce mouse
clicks/movements.

you can embed a winform inside a web browser but your users still have to
have the .Net framework installed, in which case it would be simpler to just
use normal winforms.

have a look at AJAX technologies for .Net which allow for very dynamic web
forms, overcoming a lot of the clunkiness of the postback model.

if possible make sure your users all have up-level browsers, to make the
best use of client-side validation.

i hope this helps
tim

"Seth Bourne" <se*****@yahoo. comwrote in message
news:u4******** *****@TK2MSFTNG P06.phx.gbl...

It is really painfull when migrating from Windows Application to Web
Application. it's because web application has so many weakness which have
the user to use 'more mouse' than 'keyboard' it self. it's really dont fit
for Point of Sale System which is need faster data entry. is it anyway we
can handle this ??

Thanks
Seth

[Eliyahu Goldin]

Seth,

Migrating from Windows to web is indeed painful, like any other migration
from one country to another, from one culture to another.

With a bit of client-side programming you can setup quite comprehensive
keyboard support for your application. Many navigation controls provide
built-in support for keyboard navigation.

--
Eliyahu Goldin,
Software Developer & Consultant
Microsoft MVP [ASP.NET]
"Seth Bourne" <se*****@yahoo. comwrote in message
news:u4******** *****@TK2MSFTNG P06.phx.gbl...

It is really painfull when migrating from Windows Application to Web
Application. it's because web application has so many weakness which have
the user to use 'more mouse' than 'keyboard' it self. it's really dont fit
for Point of Sale System which is need faster data entry. is it anyway we
can handle this ??

Thanks
Seth

[Seth Bourne]

I'm using MASTER-DETAIL method to do the job. where MASTER is detailview and
DETAIL is gridview. i think most user will got the problem when editing the
gridview. they have to 'click' EDIT to edit the row and 'click' ADD to add
the new row.. 'mouse-less' methodology will not be reached..

the win form is a good idea, but we've should install .net framework in the
client machine. it's a great idea, but the problem comes when i host the
application into third party hosting company. i dont think all my client
have .net framework cause of large operating system environment.

can i see your data entry application to compare with my needs ?

thanks.

"Tim_Mac" <ti********@com munity.nospamwr ote in message
news:%2******** ********@TK2MSF TNGP05.phx.gbl. ..

hi Seth,
you're absolutely right, a windows application can have a vastly superior
interface because it is not restricted to the limited web control set, as
well as being free of the form-postback model which can be difficult to
work with.

however having said all that, i have designed large scale data entry
applications based on web forms. if you code it right it can be very
quick. several people use the app all day every day and they have got very
quick using it. e.g. when a user saves a form, instead of showing a
message "Thank you" and then getting them to click to enter a new form, i
have found it faster to show a javascript alert (easy to dismiss by
hitting 'Enter') and then redirect the user automatically to enter another
of the same form.
also, make sure to use the TabOrder properties of the input controls
because data entry people generally use these extensively to reduce mouse
clicks/movements.

you can embed a winform inside a web browser but your users still have to
have the .Net framework installed, in which case it would be simpler to
just use normal winforms.

have a look at AJAX technologies for .Net which allow for very dynamic web
forms, overcoming a lot of the clunkiness of the postback model.

if possible make sure your users all have up-level browsers, to make the
best use of client-side validation.

i hope this helps
tim

"Seth Bourne" <se*****@yahoo. comwrote in message
news:u4******** *****@TK2MSFTNG P06.phx.gbl...

>It is really painfull when migrating from Windows Application to Web
Application. it's because web application has so many weakness which have
the user to use 'more mouse' than 'keyboard' it self. it's really dont
fit for Point of Sale System which is need faster data entry. is it
anyway we can handle this ??

Thanks
Seth

[Tim_Mac]

hi Seth,
sorry buddy, my app took several months to write and i was under contract
that whole time :)

honestly the main thing that would help is my suggestion to use javascript
pop up alerts to show messages (instead of requiring another click/postback)
and use tab order on all your textboxes/menus, and the shortcut keys as
Eliyahu suggested.
also, you should use Form.DefaultFoc us and Form.DefaultBut ton on all your
pages so that your users can start typing straight away, and hit enter to
achieve the desired result.

good luck.
tim

"Seth Bourne" <se*****@yahoo. comwrote in message
news:OV******** ********@TK2MSF TNGP02.phx.gbl. ..

I'm using MASTER-DETAIL method to do the job. where MASTER is detailview
and DETAIL is gridview. i think most user will got the problem when
editing the gridview. they have to 'click' EDIT to edit the row and
'click' ADD to add the new row.. 'mouse-less' methodology will not be
reached..

the win form is a good idea, but we've should install .net framework in
the client machine. it's a great idea, but the problem comes when i host
the application into third party hosting company. i dont think all my
client have .net framework cause of large operating system environment.

can i see your data entry application to compare with my needs ?

thanks.

"Tim_Mac" <ti********@com munity.nospamwr ote in message
news:%2******** ********@TK2MSF TNGP05.phx.gbl. ..

>hi Seth,
you're absolutely right, a windows application can have a vastly superior
interface because it is not restricted to the limited web control set, as
well as being free of the form-postback model which can be difficult to
work with.

however having said all that, i have designed large scale data entry
applications based on web forms. if you code it right it can be very
quick. several people use the app all day every day and they have got
very quick using it. e.g. when a user saves a form, instead of showing a
message "Thank you" and then getting them to click to enter a new form, i
have found it faster to show a javascript alert (easy to dismiss by
hitting 'Enter') and then redirect the user automatically to enter
another of the same form.
also, make sure to use the TabOrder properties of the input controls
because data entry people generally use these extensively to reduce mouse
clicks/movements.

you can embed a winform inside a web browser but your users still have to
have the .Net framework installed, in which case it would be simpler to
just use normal winforms.

have a look at AJAX technologies for .Net which allow for very dynamic
web forms, overcoming a lot of the clunkiness of the postback model.

if possible make sure your users all have up-level browsers, to make the
best use of client-side validation.

i hope this helps
tim

"Seth Bourne" <se*****@yahoo. comwrote in message
news:u4******* ******@TK2MSFTN GP06.phx.gbl...

>>It is really painfull when migrating from Windows Application to Web
Application . it's because web application has so many weakness which
have the user to use 'more mouse' than 'keyboard' it self. it's really
dont fit for Point of Sale System which is need faster data entry. is it
anyway we can handle this ??

Thanks
Seth

[Scott D Johnson]

How do you set the Form.DefaultFoc us and Form.DefaultBut ton?

THX

"Tim_Mac" <ti********@com munity.nospamwr ote in message
news:eT******** ******@TK2MSFTN GP06.phx.gbl...

hi Seth,
sorry buddy, my app took several months to write and i was under contract
that whole time :)

honestly the main thing that would help is my suggestion to use javascript
pop up alerts to show messages (instead of requiring another
click/postback) and use tab order on all your textboxes/menus, and the
shortcut keys as Eliyahu suggested.
also, you should use Form.DefaultFoc us and Form.DefaultBut ton on all your
pages so that your users can start typing straight away, and hit enter to
achieve the desired result.

good luck.
tim

"Seth Bourne" <se*****@yahoo. comwrote in message
news:OV******** ********@TK2MSF TNGP02.phx.gbl. ..

>I'm using MASTER-DETAIL method to do the job. where MASTER is detailview
and DETAIL is gridview. i think most user will got the problem when
editing the gridview. they have to 'click' EDIT to edit the row and
'click' ADD to add the new row.. 'mouse-less' methodology will not be
reached..

the win form is a good idea, but we've should install .net framework in
the client machine. it's a great idea, but the problem comes when i host
the application into third party hosting company. i dont think all my
client have .net framework cause of large operating system environment.

can i see your data entry application to compare with my needs ?

thanks.

"Tim_Mac" <ti********@com munity.nospamwr ote in message
news:%2******* *********@TK2MS FTNGP05.phx.gbl ...

>>hi Seth,
you're absolutely right, a windows application can have a vastly
superior interface because it is not restricted to the limited web
control set, as well as being free of the form-postback model which can
be difficult to work with.

however having said all that, i have designed large scale data entry
application s based on web forms. if you code it right it can be very
quick. several people use the app all day every day and they have got
very quick using it. e.g. when a user saves a form, instead of showing
a message "Thank you" and then getting them to click to enter a new
form, i have found it faster to show a javascript alert (easy to dismiss
by hitting 'Enter') and then redirect the user automatically to enter
another of the same form.
also, make sure to use the TabOrder properties of the input controls
because data entry people generally use these extensively to reduce
mouse clicks/movements.

you can embed a winform inside a web browser but your users still have
to have the .Net framework installed, in which case it would be simpler
to just use normal winforms.

have a look at AJAX technologies for .Net which allow for very dynamic
web forms, overcoming a lot of the clunkiness of the postback model.

if possible make sure your users all have up-level browsers, to make the
best use of client-side validation.

i hope this helps
tim

"Seth Bourne" <se*****@yahoo. comwrote in message
news:u4****** *******@TK2MSFT NGP06.phx.gbl.. .
It is really painfull when migrating from Windows Application to Web
Applicatio n. it's because web application has so many weakness which
have the user to use 'more mouse' than 'keyboard' it self. it's really
dont fit for Point of Sale System which is need faster data entry. is
it anyway we can handle this ??

Thanks
Seth

[Guy Peled]

Seth Bourne wrote:

It is really painfully when migrating from Windows Application to Web
Application. it's because web application has so many weakness which have
the user to use 'more mouse' than 'keyboard' it self. it's really dint fit
for Point of Sale System which is need faster data entry. is it anyway we
can handle this ??

Thanks
Seth

Hi Seth,

I would like to introduce you to a new technology called Visual WebGui
which basically lets you develop in WinForms like API and design time
capabilities for creating a rich internet application. WebForms/ASP.NET
technology has evolved from being a web site developing environment to
being a enhanced web site developing environment but in no way has
eased building web sites that are actually applications.

Visual WebGui brings desktop methodologies to web development instead
of the current trend to try to enhance web environments to be able to
create web applications.

Visual WebGui is using the underlining web HTTP protocol but as opposed
to current web development environments does not require the developer
to architect his application using web concepts. The developer programs
in WinForms like environment and a runtime engine in turn uses the HTTP
protocol to reflect the application to the client browser. Visual
WebGui is not a code generator but rather a runtime environment )as
opposed to GWT for example) and by that allows unlimited application
complexity with no affect on band width consumption (again as opposed
to GWT which compiles the application to JavaScript).

Visual WebGui can help you migrate an existing WinForms application as
your architecture does not change. There are some differences that had
to be applied to support the asynchronous nature of AJAX.

You can see a live sample app here
(http://samples.visualwebgui.com/mainform.wgx) and learn some more here
(http://www.visualwebgui.com). There are some very useful videos that
gives you a quick understanding of the Visual WebGui environment.

Sincerely,
Guy Peled

[q]

Either use Ajax or WPF. Both rock. If you use WPF, you can use WPF/E
to expose it to your clients (Firefox, Safari, IE). My primary
specialty for the past 6 years has been Ajax development and I've done
all kinds of crazy stuff like that, but WPF is too awesome for words
and I've switched. Seriously, look into it...

Seth Bourne wrote:

It is really painfull when migrating from Windows Application to Web
Application. it's because web application has so many weakness which have
the user to use 'more mouse' than 'keyboard' it self. it's really dont fit
for Point of Sale System which is need faster data entry. is it anyway we
can handle this ??

Thanks
Seth

[Tim_Mac]

hi Scott,
the 'Form' object is a new property of the Page object in .Net 2.0.
so you can use code like this (all equivalent):

Page.Form.Defau ltFocus = this.textbox1.C lientID;
this.Page.Form. DefaultFocus = this.textbox1.C lientID;
this.Form.Defau ltFocus = this.textbox1.C lientID;

the same goes for DefaultButton.
hope this helps
tim

"Scott D Johnson" <sc*****@comcas t.netwrote in message
news:et******** ******@TK2MSFTN GP03.phx.gbl...

>
How do you set the Form.DefaultFoc us and Form.DefaultBut ton?

THX

"Tim_Mac" <ti********@com munity.nospamwr ote in message
news:eT******** ******@TK2MSFTN GP06.phx.gbl...

>hi Seth,
sorry buddy, my app took several months to write and i was under contract
that whole time :)

honestly the main thing that would help is my suggestion to use
javascript pop up alerts to show messages (instead of requiring another
click/postback) and use tab order on all your textboxes/menus, and the
shortcut keys as Eliyahu suggested.
also, you should use Form.DefaultFoc us and Form.DefaultBut ton on all your
pages so that your users can start typing straight away, and hit enter to
achieve the desired result.

good luck.
tim

"Seth Bourne" <se*****@yahoo. comwrote in message
news:OV******* *********@TK2MS FTNGP02.phx.gbl ...

>>I'm using MASTER-DETAIL method to do the job. where MASTER is detailview
and DETAIL is gridview. i think most user will got the problem when
editing the gridview. they have to 'click' EDIT to edit the row and
'click' ADD to add the new row.. 'mouse-less' methodology will not be
reached..

the win form is a good idea, but we've should install .net framework in
the client machine. it's a great idea, but the problem comes when i host
the application into third party hosting company. i dont think all my
client have .net framework cause of large operating system environment.

can i see your data entry application to compare with my needs ?

thanks.

"Tim_Mac" <ti********@com munity.nospamwr ote in message
news:%2****** **********@TK2M SFTNGP05.phx.gb l...
hi Seth,
you're absolutely right, a windows application can have a vastly
superior interface because it is not restricted to the limited web
control set, as well as being free of the form-postback model which can
be difficult to work with.

however having said all that, i have designed large scale data entry
applicatio ns based on web forms. if you code it right it can be very
quick. several people use the app all day every day and they have got
very quick using it. e.g. when a user saves a form, instead of showing
a message "Thank you" and then getting them to click to enter a new
form, i have found it faster to show a javascript alert (easy to
dismiss by hitting 'Enter') and then redirect the user automatically to
enter another of the same form.
also, make sure to use the TabOrder properties of the input controls
because data entry people generally use these extensively to reduce
mouse clicks/movements.

you can embed a winform inside a web browser but your users still have
to have the .Net framework installed, in which case it would be simpler
to just use normal winforms.

have a look at AJAX technologies for .Net which allow for very dynamic
web forms, overcoming a lot of the clunkiness of the postback model.

if possible make sure your users all have up-level browsers, to make
the best use of client-side validation.

i hope this helps
tim

"Seth Bourne" <se*****@yahoo. comwrote in message
news:u4***** ********@TK2MSF TNGP06.phx.gbl. ..
It is really painfull when migrating from Windows Application to Web
Application . it's because web application has so many weakness which
have the user to use 'more mouse' than 'keyboard' it self. it's really
dont fit for Point of Sale System which is need faster data entry. is
it anyway we can handle this ??
>
Thanks
Seth
>