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StackOverflowex ception

Hi all,
I don't know what the exact meaning in my case for this exception to be
thrown.
When my program execute the following statement:

item.NumPersons OnTrxn = GetNumofPeopleP erTrxn(orderID, sProduct)

The system.stackove rflowexception was thrown.
The getNumberofPeop erPerTrxn is just a function defined as follow
Public Shared Function GetNumofPeopleP erTrxn(ByVal OrderID As String, ByVal
Product As String) As Integer

and the item.NumPersons OnTrxn is an Integer property define in a class
ProducerTabular Report(Item).
Can you give me a hint? Before the exception, the function
GetNumofPeopleP erTrxn(orderID, sProduct) return 2 in watch window,
item.NumPersons OnTrxn is 0(byDefault I guess)

--
Betty
Feb 24 '06 #1
6 1923
..When this exception is thrown, I only have one pending method call on call
stack window which is the calling function for GetNumofPeopleP erTrxn.
--
Betty
"c676228" wrote:
Hi all,
I don't know what the exact meaning in my case for this exception to be
thrown.
When my program execute the following statement:

item.NumPersons OnTrxn = GetNumofPeopleP erTrxn(orderID, sProduct)

The system.stackove rflowexception was thrown.
The getNumberofPeop erPerTrxn is just a function defined as follow
Public Shared Function GetNumofPeopleP erTrxn(ByVal OrderID As String, ByVal
Product As String) As Integer

and the item.NumPersons OnTrxn is an Integer property define in a class
ProducerTabular Report(Item).
Can you give me a hint? Before the exception, the function
GetNumofPeopleP erTrxn(orderID, sProduct) return 2 in watch window,
item.NumPersons OnTrxn is 0(byDefault I guess)

--
Betty

Feb 24 '06 #2
Well, the first thing I can tell you is that the problem with the function
is not in the signature of the function, but in the code of the function.
That's what you need to post.

A stack overflow is usually caused by an infinite loop or infinite
recursion.

--
HTH,

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
..Net Developer
A brute awe as you,
a Metallic hag entity, eat us.
"c676228" <be****@communi ty.nospam> wrote in message
news:0C******** *************** ***********@mic rosoft.com...
Hi all,
I don't know what the exact meaning in my case for this exception to be
thrown.
When my program execute the following statement:

item.NumPersons OnTrxn = GetNumofPeopleP erTrxn(orderID, sProduct)

The system.stackove rflowexception was thrown.
The getNumberofPeop erPerTrxn is just a function defined as follow
Public Shared Function GetNumofPeopleP erTrxn(ByVal OrderID As String,
ByVal
Product As String) As Integer

and the item.NumPersons OnTrxn is an Integer property define in a class
ProducerTabular Report(Item).
Can you give me a hint? Before the exception, the function
GetNumofPeopleP erTrxn(orderID, sProduct) return 2 in watch window,
item.NumPersons OnTrxn is 0(byDefault I guess)

--
Betty

Feb 24 '06 #3
Hi Kevin,
Here is the funciton. I just cannot see there will be an infinite loop here.
Thanks for your help.

Public Shared Function GetNumofPeopleP erTrxn(ByVal OrderID As String, ByVal
Product As String) As Integer
Dim nameArr(3) As String
Dim i, j As Integer
i = 1
Dim sqlConnection As SqlConnection = New
SqlConnection(C onfigurationSet tings.AppSettin gs(Global.CfgKe yConnString))
Dim myCommand As SqlCommand = New
SqlCommand("get NumPersonPerTrx n", sqlConnection)

myCommand.Comma ndType = CommandType.Sto redProcedure
Dim pOrderID As SqlParameter = New SqlParameter("@ OrderID",
SqlDbType.VarCh ar, 18)
pOrderID.Value = OrderID
myCommand.Param eters.Add(pOrde rID)

Dim pProduct As SqlParameter = New SqlParameter("@ Product",
SqlDbType.VarCh ar, 30)
pProduct.Value = Product
myCommand.Param eters.Add(pProd uct)

sqlConnection.O pen()
Dim result As SqlDataReader =
myCommand.Execu teReader(Comman dBehavior.Close Connection)
'expect only one record or none
If result.Read() Then
Select Case Product
Case "Travel Insurance Select"
If
CInt(result.Get Value(result.Ge tOrdinal("Selec tPlus"))) = 1 Then
'code will be add here

End If
Case "InterMedic al Insurance"
If
Trim(CStr(resul t.GetValue(resu lt.GetOrdinal(" SpouseSurname") ))) <> "" Then
i = i + 1
End If
For j = 1 To 3
If
Trim(CStr(resul t.GetValue(resu lt.GetOrdinal(" Child" & j & "Surname")) )) <> ""
Then
i = i + 1
End If
Next
End Select
End If
Return i
End Function
--
Betty
"Kevin Spencer" wrote:
Well, the first thing I can tell you is that the problem with the function
is not in the signature of the function, but in the code of the function.
That's what you need to post.

A stack overflow is usually caused by an infinite loop or infinite
recursion.

--
HTH,

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
..Net Developer
A brute awe as you,
a Metallic hag entity, eat us.
"c676228" <be****@communi ty.nospam> wrote in message
news:0C******** *************** ***********@mic rosoft.com...
Hi all,
I don't know what the exact meaning in my case for this exception to be
thrown.
When my program execute the following statement:

item.NumPersons OnTrxn = GetNumofPeopleP erTrxn(orderID, sProduct)

The system.stackove rflowexception was thrown.
The getNumberofPeop erPerTrxn is just a function defined as follow
Public Shared Function GetNumofPeopleP erTrxn(ByVal OrderID As String,
ByVal
Product As String) As Integer

and the item.NumPersons OnTrxn is an Integer property define in a class
ProducerTabular Report(Item).
Can you give me a hint? Before the exception, the function
GetNumofPeopleP erTrxn(orderID, sProduct) return 2 in watch window,
item.NumPersons OnTrxn is 0(byDefault I guess)

--
Betty


Feb 24 '06 #4
Hi all,
Maybe the problem came from calling function? Here is the code for my
calling function since the function call GetNumofPeopleP erTrxn(orderID,
sProduct)
is inside the for loop.

Because I after put try...end try block, I got :
Timeout expired. The timeout period elapsed prior to obtaining a connection
from the pool. This may have occurred because all pooled connections were in
use and max pool size was reached.

But I close the connection in GetNumofPeopleP erTrxn(orderID, sProduct) call.
SqlHelper is download from report start kits(asp 1.1), I didn't change
anything.
It has cn.dispose for each cn.open() I don't know the difference between
close and dispose.
/////' the following is my calling function
Public Shared Function GetProductDetai ledReport(ByVal AgentID As String,
ByVal Product As String, ByVal StartDate As DateTime, ByVal EndDate As
DateTime) As ProducerTabular ReportCollectio n
Dim dsData As DataSet =
SqlHelper.Execu teDataset(Confi gurationSetting s.AppSettings(G lobal.CfgKeyCon nString), "GetProductDeta iledReport", AgentID, Product, StartDate, EndDate)
Dim items As New ProducerTabular ReportCollectio n
Dim orderID As String
Dim sProduct As String
Dim row As DataRow
For Each row In dsData.Tables(0 ).Rows
Dim item As New ProducerTabular Report
item.AgentID = row("AgentID"). ToString()
item.OrgName = row("Orgname"). ToString()
item.Product = row("Product"). ToString()
item.txnNumber = row("txnNumber" ).ToString()
orderID = Trim(row("Order _ID").ToString )
sProduct = Trim(row("Produ ct").ToString() )
Try
item.NumPersons OnTrxn = GetNumofPeopleP erTrxn(orderID,
sProduct)
'End Select
Catch ex As Exception

Console.WriteLi ne(ex.Message)
End Try


item.TxnDate = Convert.ToDateT ime(row("txnDat e"))
item.txnSale = Convert.ToDecim al(row("txnSale "))
items.Add(item)
Next
Return items
End Function
--
Betty
"c676228" wrote:
Hi Kevin,
Here is the funciton. I just cannot see there will be an infinite loop here.
Thanks for your help.

Public Shared Function GetNumofPeopleP erTrxn(ByVal OrderID As String, ByVal
Product As String) As Integer
Dim nameArr(3) As String
Dim i, j As Integer
i = 1
Dim sqlConnection As SqlConnection = New
SqlConnection(C onfigurationSet tings.AppSettin gs(Global.CfgKe yConnString))
Dim myCommand As SqlCommand = New
SqlCommand("get NumPersonPerTrx n", sqlConnection)

myCommand.Comma ndType = CommandType.Sto redProcedure
Dim pOrderID As SqlParameter = New SqlParameter("@ OrderID",
SqlDbType.VarCh ar, 18)
pOrderID.Value = OrderID
myCommand.Param eters.Add(pOrde rID)

Dim pProduct As SqlParameter = New SqlParameter("@ Product",
SqlDbType.VarCh ar, 30)
pProduct.Value = Product
myCommand.Param eters.Add(pProd uct)

sqlConnection.O pen()
Dim result As SqlDataReader =
myCommand.Execu teReader(Comman dBehavior.Close Connection)
'expect only one record or none
If result.Read() Then
Select Case Product
Case "Travel Insurance Select"
If
CInt(result.Get Value(result.Ge tOrdinal("Selec tPlus"))) = 1 Then
'code will be add here

End If
Case "InterMedic al Insurance"
If
Trim(CStr(resul t.GetValue(resu lt.GetOrdinal(" SpouseSurname") ))) <> "" Then
i = i + 1
End If
For j = 1 To 3
If
Trim(CStr(resul t.GetValue(resu lt.GetOrdinal(" Child" & j & "Surname")) )) <> ""
Then
i = i + 1
End If
Next
End Select
End If
Return i
End Function
--
Betty
"Kevin Spencer" wrote:
Well, the first thing I can tell you is that the problem with the function
is not in the signature of the function, but in the code of the function.
That's what you need to post.

A stack overflow is usually caused by an infinite loop or infinite
recursion.

--
HTH,

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
..Net Developer
A brute awe as you,
a Metallic hag entity, eat us.
"c676228" <be****@communi ty.nospam> wrote in message
news:0C******** *************** ***********@mic rosoft.com...
Hi all,
I don't know what the exact meaning in my case for this exception to be
thrown.
When my program execute the following statement:

item.NumPersons OnTrxn = GetNumofPeopleP erTrxn(orderID, sProduct)

The system.stackove rflowexception was thrown.
The getNumberofPeop erPerTrxn is just a function defined as follow
Public Shared Function GetNumofPeopleP erTrxn(ByVal OrderID As String,
ByVal
Product As String) As Integer

and the item.NumPersons OnTrxn is an Integer property define in a class
ProducerTabular Report(Item).
Can you give me a hint? Before the exception, the function
GetNumofPeopleP erTrxn(orderID, sProduct) return 2 in watch window,
item.NumPersons OnTrxn is 0(byDefault I guess)

--
Betty


Feb 24 '06 #5

Hi all,
Now I caught something:

When I step through I got infinite loop of execution of these two lines

Set(ByVal Value As Integer)
NumPersonsOnTrx n = Value
End Set

No wonder it throw stackoverflow when it execute: item.NumPersons OnTrxn =
GetNumofPeopleP erTrxn(orderID, sProduct).
But I still don't know how it happens.

( I also got infinite lines of the following in call stack window)

CSRreport.CSRre ports.Component s.ProducerTabul arReport.set_Nu mPersonsOnTrxn( Integer Value = 1) Line 140 + 0xc bytes Basic

--
Betty
"c676228" wrote:
Hi all,
Maybe the problem came from calling function? Here is the code for my
calling function since the function call GetNumofPeopleP erTrxn(orderID,
sProduct)
is inside the for loop.

Because I after put try...end try block, I got :
Timeout expired. The timeout period elapsed prior to obtaining a connection
from the pool. This may have occurred because all pooled connections were in
use and max pool size was reached.

But I close the connection in GetNumofPeopleP erTrxn(orderID, sProduct) call.
SqlHelper is download from report start kits(asp 1.1), I didn't change
anything.
It has cn.dispose for each cn.open() I don't know the difference between
close and dispose.
/////' the following is my calling function
Public Shared Function GetProductDetai ledReport(ByVal AgentID As String,
ByVal Product As String, ByVal StartDate As DateTime, ByVal EndDate As
DateTime) As ProducerTabular ReportCollectio n
Dim dsData As DataSet =
SqlHelper.Execu teDataset(Confi gurationSetting s.AppSettings(G lobal.CfgKeyCon nString), "GetProductDeta iledReport", AgentID, Product, StartDate, EndDate)
Dim items As New ProducerTabular ReportCollectio n
Dim orderID As String
Dim sProduct As String
Dim row As DataRow
For Each row In dsData.Tables(0 ).Rows
Dim item As New ProducerTabular Report
item.AgentID = row("AgentID"). ToString()
item.OrgName = row("Orgname"). ToString()
item.Product = row("Product"). ToString()
item.txnNumber = row("txnNumber" ).ToString()
orderID = Trim(row("Order _ID").ToString )
sProduct = Trim(row("Produ ct").ToString() )
Try
item.NumPersons OnTrxn = GetNumofPeopleP erTrxn(orderID,
sProduct)
'End Select
Catch ex As Exception

Console.WriteLi ne(ex.Message)
End Try


item.TxnDate = Convert.ToDateT ime(row("txnDat e"))
item.txnSale = Convert.ToDecim al(row("txnSale "))
items.Add(item)
Next
Return items
End Function
--
Betty
"c676228" wrote:
Hi Kevin,
Here is the funciton. I just cannot see there will be an infinite loop here.
Thanks for your help.

Public Shared Function GetNumofPeopleP erTrxn(ByVal OrderID As String, ByVal
Product As String) As Integer
Dim nameArr(3) As String
Dim i, j As Integer
i = 1
Dim sqlConnection As SqlConnection = New
SqlConnection(C onfigurationSet tings.AppSettin gs(Global.CfgKe yConnString))
Dim myCommand As SqlCommand = New
SqlCommand("get NumPersonPerTrx n", sqlConnection)

myCommand.Comma ndType = CommandType.Sto redProcedure
Dim pOrderID As SqlParameter = New SqlParameter("@ OrderID",
SqlDbType.VarCh ar, 18)
pOrderID.Value = OrderID
myCommand.Param eters.Add(pOrde rID)

Dim pProduct As SqlParameter = New SqlParameter("@ Product",
SqlDbType.VarCh ar, 30)
pProduct.Value = Product
myCommand.Param eters.Add(pProd uct)

sqlConnection.O pen()
Dim result As SqlDataReader =
myCommand.Execu teReader(Comman dBehavior.Close Connection)
'expect only one record or none
If result.Read() Then
Select Case Product
Case "Travel Insurance Select"
If
CInt(result.Get Value(result.Ge tOrdinal("Selec tPlus"))) = 1 Then
'code will be add here

End If
Case "InterMedic al Insurance"
If
Trim(CStr(resul t.GetValue(resu lt.GetOrdinal(" SpouseSurname") ))) <> "" Then
i = i + 1
End If
For j = 1 To 3
If
Trim(CStr(resul t.GetValue(resu lt.GetOrdinal(" Child" & j & "Surname")) )) <> ""
Then
i = i + 1
End If
Next
End Select
End If
Return i
End Function
--
Betty
"Kevin Spencer" wrote:
Well, the first thing I can tell you is that the problem with the function
is not in the signature of the function, but in the code of the function.
That's what you need to post.

A stack overflow is usually caused by an infinite loop or infinite
recursion.

--
HTH,

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
..Net Developer
A brute awe as you,
a Metallic hag entity, eat us.
"c676228" <be****@communi ty.nospam> wrote in message
news:0C******** *************** ***********@mic rosoft.com...
> Hi all,
> I don't know what the exact meaning in my case for this exception to be
> thrown.
> When my program execute the following statement:
>
> item.NumPersons OnTrxn = GetNumofPeopleP erTrxn(orderID, sProduct)
>
> The system.stackove rflowexception was thrown.
> The getNumberofPeop erPerTrxn is just a function defined as follow
> Public Shared Function GetNumofPeopleP erTrxn(ByVal OrderID As String,
> ByVal
> Product As String) As Integer
>
> and the item.NumPersons OnTrxn is an Integer property define in a class
> ProducerTabular Report(Item).
> Can you give me a hint? Before the exception, the function
> GetNumofPeopleP erTrxn(orderID, sProduct) return 2 in watch window,
> item.NumPersons OnTrxn is 0(byDefault I guess)
>
> --
> Betty

Feb 24 '06 #6
Ok I caught it. That's because my silly typo cause this nasty problem. I
guess I shouldn't work on Fri.

I have a property in the class which looks like this:
Private _NumPersonsOnTr xn As Integer

Public Property NumPersonsOnTrx n() As Integer
Get
Return _NumPersonsOnTr xn
End Get
Set(ByVal Value As Integer)
NumPersonsOnTrx n = Value 'look at here, I typed
NumPersonsOnTrx n instead of _NumPersonsOnTr xn and then it cause recursive
call the Property NumPersonsOnTrx n.
'what a nasty mistake!

End Set
End Property
--
Betty
"c676228" wrote:

Hi all,
Now I caught something:

When I step through I got infinite loop of execution of these two lines

Set(ByVal Value As Integer)
NumPersonsOnTrx n = Value
End Set

No wonder it throw stackoverflow when it execute: item.NumPersons OnTrxn =
GetNumofPeopleP erTrxn(orderID, sProduct).
But I still don't know how it happens.

( I also got infinite lines of the following in call stack window)

CSRreport.CSRre ports.Component s.ProducerTabul arReport.set_Nu mPersonsOnTrxn( Integer Value = 1) Line 140 + 0xc bytes Basic

--
Betty
"c676228" wrote:
Hi all,
Maybe the problem came from calling function? Here is the code for my
calling function since the function call GetNumofPeopleP erTrxn(orderID,
sProduct)
is inside the for loop.

Because I after put try...end try block, I got :
Timeout expired. The timeout period elapsed prior to obtaining a connection
from the pool. This may have occurred because all pooled connections were in
use and max pool size was reached.

But I close the connection in GetNumofPeopleP erTrxn(orderID, sProduct) call.
SqlHelper is download from report start kits(asp 1.1), I didn't change
anything.
It has cn.dispose for each cn.open() I don't know the difference between
close and dispose.
/////' the following is my calling function
Public Shared Function GetProductDetai ledReport(ByVal AgentID As String,
ByVal Product As String, ByVal StartDate As DateTime, ByVal EndDate As
DateTime) As ProducerTabular ReportCollectio n
Dim dsData As DataSet =
SqlHelper.Execu teDataset(Confi gurationSetting s.AppSettings(G lobal.CfgKeyCon nString), "GetProductDeta iledReport", AgentID, Product, StartDate, EndDate)
Dim items As New ProducerTabular ReportCollectio n
Dim orderID As String
Dim sProduct As String
Dim row As DataRow
For Each row In dsData.Tables(0 ).Rows
Dim item As New ProducerTabular Report
item.AgentID = row("AgentID"). ToString()
item.OrgName = row("Orgname"). ToString()
item.Product = row("Product"). ToString()
item.txnNumber = row("txnNumber" ).ToString()
orderID = Trim(row("Order _ID").ToString )
sProduct = Trim(row("Produ ct").ToString() )
Try
item.NumPersons OnTrxn = GetNumofPeopleP erTrxn(orderID,
sProduct)
'End Select
Catch ex As Exception

Console.WriteLi ne(ex.Message)
End Try


item.TxnDate = Convert.ToDateT ime(row("txnDat e"))
item.txnSale = Convert.ToDecim al(row("txnSale "))
items.Add(item)
Next
Return items
End Function
--
Betty
"c676228" wrote:
Hi Kevin,
Here is the funciton. I just cannot see there will be an infinite loop here.
Thanks for your help.

Public Shared Function GetNumofPeopleP erTrxn(ByVal OrderID As String, ByVal
Product As String) As Integer
Dim nameArr(3) As String
Dim i, j As Integer
i = 1
Dim sqlConnection As SqlConnection = New
SqlConnection(C onfigurationSet tings.AppSettin gs(Global.CfgKe yConnString))
Dim myCommand As SqlCommand = New
SqlCommand("get NumPersonPerTrx n", sqlConnection)

myCommand.Comma ndType = CommandType.Sto redProcedure
Dim pOrderID As SqlParameter = New SqlParameter("@ OrderID",
SqlDbType.VarCh ar, 18)
pOrderID.Value = OrderID
myCommand.Param eters.Add(pOrde rID)

Dim pProduct As SqlParameter = New SqlParameter("@ Product",
SqlDbType.VarCh ar, 30)
pProduct.Value = Product
myCommand.Param eters.Add(pProd uct)

sqlConnection.O pen()
Dim result As SqlDataReader =
myCommand.Execu teReader(Comman dBehavior.Close Connection)
'expect only one record or none
If result.Read() Then
Select Case Product
Case "Travel Insurance Select"
If
CInt(result.Get Value(result.Ge tOrdinal("Selec tPlus"))) = 1 Then
'code will be add here

End If
Case "InterMedic al Insurance"
If
Trim(CStr(resul t.GetValue(resu lt.GetOrdinal(" SpouseSurname") ))) <> "" Then
i = i + 1
End If
For j = 1 To 3
If
Trim(CStr(resul t.GetValue(resu lt.GetOrdinal(" Child" & j & "Surname")) )) <> ""
Then
i = i + 1
End If
Next
End Select
End If
Return i
End Function
--
Betty
"Kevin Spencer" wrote:

> Well, the first thing I can tell you is that the problem with the function
> is not in the signature of the function, but in the code of the function.
> That's what you need to post.
>
> A stack overflow is usually caused by an infinite loop or infinite
> recursion.
>
> --
> HTH,
>
> Kevin Spencer
> Microsoft MVP
> ..Net Developer
> A brute awe as you,
> a Metallic hag entity, eat us.
>
>
> "c676228" <be****@communi ty.nospam> wrote in message
> news:0C******** *************** ***********@mic rosoft.com...
> > Hi all,
> > I don't know what the exact meaning in my case for this exception to be
> > thrown.
> > When my program execute the following statement:
> >
> > item.NumPersons OnTrxn = GetNumofPeopleP erTrxn(orderID, sProduct)
> >
> > The system.stackove rflowexception was thrown.
> > The getNumberofPeop erPerTrxn is just a function defined as follow
> > Public Shared Function GetNumofPeopleP erTrxn(ByVal OrderID As String,
> > ByVal
> > Product As String) As Integer
> >
> > and the item.NumPersons OnTrxn is an Integer property define in a class
> > ProducerTabular Report(Item).
> > Can you give me a hint? Before the exception, the function
> > GetNumofPeopleP erTrxn(orderID, sProduct) return 2 in watch window,
> > item.NumPersons OnTrxn is 0(byDefault I guess)
> >
> > --
> > Betty
>
>
>

Feb 25 '06 #7

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Hello folks, I am unable to find appropriate documentation on the type promotion of bit-fields when using the generalised comparison operator "<=>". The problem is that using the GNU compilers, it seems that the internal comparison operator "<=>" tries to promote arguments from unsigned to signed. This is as boiled down as I can make it. ...
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8118
jinu1996
by: jinu1996 | last post by:
In today's digital age, having a compelling online presence is paramount for businesses aiming to thrive in a competitive landscape. At the heart of this digital strategy lies an intricately woven tapestry of website design and digital marketing. It's not merely about having a website; it's about crafting an immersive digital experience that...
0
6277
agi2029
by: agi2029 | last post by:
Let's talk about the concept of autonomous AI software engineers and no-code agents. These AIs are designed to manage the entire lifecycle of a software development project—planning, coding, testing, and deployment—without human intervention. Imagine an AI that can take a project description, break it down, write the code, debug it, and then...
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3651
by: TSSRALBI | last post by:
Hello I'm a network technician in training and I need your help. I am currently learning how to create and manage the different types of VPNs and I have a question about LAN-to-LAN VPNs. The last exercise I practiced was to create a LAN-to-LAN VPN between two Pfsense firewalls, by using IPSEC protocols. I succeeded, with both firewalls in...
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3631
by: adsilva | last post by:
A Windows Forms form does not have the event Unload, like VB6. What one acts like?
1
2105
by: 6302768590 | last post by:
Hai team i want code for transfer the data from one system to another through IP address by using C# our system has to for every 5mins then we have to update the data what the data is updated we have to send another system
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1207
muto222
by: muto222 | last post by:
How can i add a mobile payment intergratation into php mysql website.
0
933
bsmnconsultancy
by: bsmnconsultancy | last post by:
In today's digital era, a well-designed website is crucial for businesses looking to succeed. Whether you're a small business owner or a large corporation in Toronto, having a strong online presence can significantly impact your brand's success. BSMN Consultancy, a leader in Website Development in Toronto offers valuable insights into creating...

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