ASP.NET development process

[Maxim Fridental]

It is well advertised .NET allows separate developing of web pages by a web
designer and a web programmer. Where could I find recommendations from
Microsoft about the corresponding development process or tools that really
enable such parallel development? I would also like to read some real world
experiences.

We have particularly the following problems:

1. Our web designer can't use Visual Studio, so a) all HTML code must be
copied by a web programmer manually and b) her HTML pages aren't under
source control.

2. Our web designer knows nothing about modularity, so every HTML page she
creates shares some HTML code, that must be refactored by the web programmer
using user web controls. Even if the web designer knows about and values
modularity, how can she create and test modular HTML pages?

3. Some HTML controls are normally replaced by a web programmer with ASP
controls. That is responsibility of the web programmer, isn't it? But assume
the web designer has created a new, slightly different version of the page.
The web programmer must a) read the complete HTML code of the new page, b)
match it to the existing .aspx and c) add or remove correspoding tags. It is
very time consuming, error prone and unpleasing manual task.
Should our web designer create .aspx pages directly? Or should our designer
and programmer pair? And what should we do if web pages are designed by a
separate company?

[M. Posseth]

Real world :

I am working as a allround Visual studio programmer ( VS6 / VS.NET 2003 )
for some years now

my experience is that what is graphicly correct ( designer = in most of the
times a graphics artist ) is not always programaticly correct

i am a certified programmer ( MCP multiple times ) and my goal is to work
by MSF rules ( Graphic artists do not know these rules )

So i am happy that in my current job position i am together in one office
with a designer , he creates the plain HTML pages ( ASP.NET 2003 )
while i can focus on writing the code behind pages and the databases
however i do modify the HTML side i write custom scripts in it , and i
optimize the HTML
remove repetitive code and build it in databinded repeaters , i make the
templates etc etc etc etc

In my eyes that artist should make the initial graphical view the rest is
for the coder ( development team ) however close comunication with the
designer can solve a lot of frustration from both sides
as he can see my code modifications it is more likely that he wil adopt it
, in a next project . no i am not afraid that he can do my job in the future
:-) ,,, when it is not standard out of the book they stil need people who
can think recursive , and in program flow ( like we real developers can )
wich requires a good programming education and / or experience

"Maxim Fridental" <m.*********@fi remail.de> wrote in message
news:2i******** ****@uni-berlin.de...

It is well advertised .NET allows separate developing of web pages by a web designer and a web programmer. Where could I find recommendations from
Microsoft about the corresponding development process or tools that really
enable such parallel development? I would also like to read some real world experiences.

We have particularly the following problems:

1. Our web designer can't use Visual Studio, so a) all HTML code must be
copied by a web programmer manually and b) her HTML pages aren't under
source control.

2. Our web designer knows nothing about modularity, so every HTML page she
creates shares some HTML code, that must be refactored by the web programmer using user web controls. Even if the web designer knows about and values
modularity, how can she create and test modular HTML pages?

3. Some HTML controls are normally replaced by a web programmer with ASP
controls. That is responsibility of the web programmer, isn't it? But assume the web designer has created a new, slightly different version of the page. The web programmer must a) read the complete HTML code of the new page, b) match it to the existing .aspx and c) add or remove correspoding tags. It is very time consuming, error prone and unpleasing manual task.
Should our web designer create .aspx pages directly? Or should our designer and programmer pair? And what should we do if web pages are designed by a
separate company?

[clintonG]

To answer the question...

It is a good idea to visit a Dreamweaver newsgroup [1] as there are
quite a few posts in that newsgroup regarding the use of Dreamweaver
with Visual Studio.NET. There has been scant discussion regarding this
issue by those using FrontPage but a post to that newsgroup [2]
should be made regardless as you might get lucky.
-
<%= Clinton Gallagher
A/E/C Consulting, Web Design, e-Commerce Software Development
Wauwatosa, Milwaukee County, Wisconsin USA
NET csgallagher@ REMOVETHISTEXT metromilwaukee. com
URL http://www.metromilwaukee.com/clintongallagher/

[1] news://macromedia.dreamweaver.appdev
[2] news://microsoft.public.frontpage.programming

"M. Posseth" <mi*****@nohaus ystems.nl> wrote in message
news:c9******** **@reader08.wxs .nl...

Real world :

I am working as a allround Visual studio programmer ( VS6 / VS.NET 2003 ) for some years now

my experience is that what is graphicly correct ( designer = in most of the times a graphics artist ) is not always programaticly correct

i am a certified programmer ( MCP multiple times ) and my goal is to work by MSF rules ( Graphic artists do not know these rules )

So i am happy that in my current job position i am together in one office with a designer , he creates the plain HTML pages ( ASP.NET 2003 )
while i can focus on writing the code behind pages and the databases
however i do modify the HTML side i write custom scripts in it , and i
optimize the HTML
remove repetitive code and build it in databinded repeaters , i make the templates etc etc etc etc

In my eyes that artist should make the initial graphical view the rest is for the coder ( development team ) however close comunication with the designer can solve a lot of frustration from both sides
as he can see my code modifications it is more likely that he wil adopt it , in a next project . no i am not afraid that he can do my job in the future :-) ,,, when it is not standard out of the book they stil need people who can think recursive , and in program flow ( like we real developers can ) wich requires a good programming education and / or experience

"Maxim Fridental" <m.*********@fi remail.de> wrote in message
news:2i******** ****@uni-berlin.de...

It is well advertised .NET allows separate developing of web pages by a

web

designer and a web programmer. Where could I find recommendations

from Microsoft about the corresponding development process or tools that really enable such parallel development? I would also like to read some real world

experiences.

We have particularly the following problems:

1. Our web designer can't use Visual Studio, so a) all HTML code

must be copied by a web programmer manually and b) her HTML pages aren't under source control.

2. Our web designer knows nothing about modularity, so every HTML page she creates shares some HTML code, that must be refactored by the web

programmer

using user web controls. Even if the web designer knows about and values modularity, how can she create and test modular HTML pages?

3. Some HTML controls are normally replaced by a web programmer with ASP controls. That is responsibility of the web programmer, isn't it? But assume

the web designer has created a new, slightly different version of

the page.

The web programmer must a) read the complete HTML code of the new

page, b)

match it to the existing .aspx and c) add or remove correspoding

tags. It is

very time consuming, error prone and unpleasing manual task.
Should our web designer create .aspx pages directly? Or should our

designer

and programmer pair? And what should we do if web pages are designed

by a separate company?

[Maxim Fridental]

> So i am happy that in my current job position i am together in one office

with a designer , he creates the plain HTML pages ( ASP.NET 2003 )
while i can focus on writing the code behind pages and the databases
however i do modify the HTML side i write custom scripts in it , and i
optimize the HTML
remove repetitive code and build it in databinded repeaters , i make the
templates etc etc etc etc

Do you really say you are happy to refactor repetitive HTML code manually
again and again every day!? You must be a valuable employee for your
company. I can't do it nor I can find anyone who would readily do it...

[M. Posseth]

euhhh yes i am happy with it :-)

maybe it is because i write pretty complex websites ?? ( i can`t believe a
designer can make the correct mods to let these websites run the most
efficient )

that this aproach works for me ??

see for yourself

my current project ( now 70 % finished )

http://hbase.nohausystems.nl

login with username mptestuser password : test191173

see for yourself

this website was give to me in plain html with some dummy records in it (
the designer did write this with VS.net 2003 in the aspx files )
if he is finished with a section i step in and modify and optimize all code
( bind the data to it ,write the sql server stored procedures and command
objects , and write custom script etc etc etc )

p.s.

this website is platform independent runs on all mozilla compatible
browsers (+ _ 10% of the future users of this site wil use Linux with
mozilla or conqueror )

You must be a valuable employee for your
company. I can't do it nor I can find anyone who would readily do it...

happy to hear that someone thinks so :-( in the meanwhile i live in a getto
, and earn peanuts :-(

but as i always say my work is my hobby ,,, ( and it really is :-) i just
love to code :-)



"Maxim Fridental" <m.*********@fi remail.de> wrote in message
news:%2******** ********@TK2MSF TNGP11.phx.gbl. ..

So i am happy that in my current job position i am together in one office with a designer , he creates the plain HTML pages ( ASP.NET 2003 )
while i can focus on writing the code behind pages and the databases
however i do modify the HTML side i write custom scripts in it , and i
optimize the HTML
remove repetitive code and build it in databinded repeaters , i make the
templates etc etc etc etc

Do you really say you are happy to refactor repetitive HTML code manually
again and again every day!? You must be a valuable employee for your
company. I can't do it nor I can find anyone who would readily do it...