Hello,
I'm considering a career switch to a more database-related job, but
need help on a few questions and issues. I'm a Computer Engineering
graduate and have always felt most comfortable creating database-
driven applications, preferably for web portals.
[My questions:]
1. What are the most viable career options for me out there? What
profile do I fit in?
2. What is the current job market/salary situation for database
professionals? With my current skills, what kind of job might I end up
with?
3. What are the stuff I should focus/learn to advance my skills
optimally?
4. And finally, is there any university degree (MS) specializing in
databases anywhere? (I'm also deeply interested in the internal
mechanism/theoretical aspect of databases.)
_Please read my (following) profile before replying!_
[I'm proficient in: ]
- Oracle (8i, 9i), MySQL (4.1.xx), MS Access
- Have working knowledge of SQL Server 2000
- Intend to learn SQLite and MySQL 5 soon
- HTML, DHTML, CSS
- JS, PHP
- Intend to learn AJAX, JSON, ASP.Net soon
[I feel my strengths are: ]
- I can design database systems (I don't know if that's the right
name to call it) on a very
short notice. However complex the application, it never takes me more
than a few hours (in the
very extreme of cases, and including drafting frontend layouts) to
chalk the whole thing out.
- I'm good at debugging, and am extremely meticulous about good
coding practices and error and exception handling.
- I'm good at designing good, clean webpages and emphasize on an
optimal use of CSS.
- I'm quick to learn.
[Among professional projects I've done are: ]
1. A Content Management System (CMS) for a running national daily
newspaper
2. A complete University Management System
3. An image archive containing thousands of photos
4. A website for a newspaper
Help! And many thanks in advance.
dzn
102  5301 
dreamznatcher wrote:
Hello,
I'm considering a career switch to a more database-related job, but
need help on a few questions and issues. I'm a Computer Engineering
graduate and have always felt most comfortable creating database-
driven applications, preferably for web portals.
[My questions:]
1. What are the most viable career options for me out there? What
profile do I fit in?
Um, cowboy seems like a good fit.
2. What is the current job market/salary situation for database
professionals? With my current skills, what kind of job might I end up
with?
Dunno.
3. What are the stuff I should focus/learn to advance my skills
optimally?
The fundamentals of data management.
4. And finally, is there any university degree (MS) specializing in
databases anywhere? (I'm also deeply interested in the internal
mechanism/theoretical aspect of databases.)
A lot of the heavy hitters in the data management arena seem centered
around Stanford. I am sure plenty of other good schools have good
programmes too.
_Please read my (following) profile before replying!_
[I'm proficient in: ]
- Oracle (8i, 9i), MySQL (4.1.xx), MS Access
- Have working knowledge of SQL Server 2000
- Intend to learn SQLite and MySQL 5 soon
- HTML, DHTML, CSS
- JS, PHP
- Intend to learn AJAX, JSON, ASP.Net soon
[I feel my strengths are: ]
- I can design database systems (I don't know if that's the right
name to call it) on a very
short notice. However complex the application, it never takes me more
than a few hours (in the
very extreme of cases, and including drafting frontend layouts) to
chalk the whole thing out.
- I'm good at debugging, and am extremely meticulous about good
coding practices and error and exception handling.
- I'm good at designing good, clean webpages and emphasize on an
optimal use of CSS.
- I'm quick to learn.
[Among professional projects I've done are: ]
1. A Content Management System (CMS) for a running national daily
newspaper
2. A complete University Management System
3. An image archive containing thousands of photos
4. A website for a newspaper
Help! And many thanks in advance.
dzn
dreamznatcher wrote:
Hello,
I'm considering a career switch to a more database-related job, but
need help on a few questions and issues. I'm a Computer Engineering
graduate and have always felt most comfortable creating database-
driven applications, preferably for web portals.
[My questions:]
1. What are the most viable career options for me out there? What
profile do I fit in?
You don't fit into any specific hash bucket but rather likely have
the ability to morph into whichever one you wish.
Rather than approaching it from the standpoint of "I'm a square peg
which hole should I put myself in?" Turn it around and say "I am a
morphable peg and which hole would I most enjoy being in?"
2. What is the current job market/salary situation for database
professionals? With my current skills, what kind of job might I end up
with?
Best place to look is dice.com, monster.com, hotjobs.com, etc. But
the job market today is not the job market of tomorrow. Certainly
there are some things that are safer bets than others. One can
essentially guarantee Oracle will still be around in 20 years whereas
one can be rather certain a large number of products and companies
will not be: At least not in their current form.
3. What are the stuff I should focus/learn to advance my skills
optimally?
Depends on what you want to be doing when you are 57 years old. The
only correct answer is asking strangers is a sure road to disaster.
4. And finally, is there any university degree (MS) specializing in
databases anywhere? (I'm also deeply interested in the internal
mechanism/theoretical aspect of databases.)
What country? I'm not aware of one in the US but you might want to
contact Professor Carl Dudley at University of Wolverhampton with
respect to the EU.
_Please read my (following) profile before replying!_
[I'm proficient in: ]
- Oracle (8i, 9i), MySQL (4.1.xx), MS Access
- Have working knowledge of SQL Server 2000
- Intend to learn SQLite and MySQL 5 soon
- HTML, DHTML, CSS
- JS, PHP
- Intend to learn AJAX, JSON, ASP.Net soon
To be brutally honest with you ... no you aren't. One of the things
that gets me to toss a resume into the discard pile when looking at
resumes is a laundry list of technologies so vast no person could
possibly be competent in all of them. Above is such a list and not
only are you not proficient in all of them neither is anyone else.
Lists like this create an immediate negative impression except in
HR departments staffed by former shoe salesmen. <g>
--
Daniel A. Morgan
University of Washington da******@x.washington.edu (replace x with u to respond)
Puget Sound Oracle Users Group www.psoug.org
dreamznatcher wrote:
[I feel my strengths are: ]
- I can design database systems (I don't know if that's the right
name to call it) on a very
short notice. However complex the application, it never takes me more
than a few hours (in the
very extreme of cases, and including drafting frontend layouts) to
chalk the whole thing out.
Amazing.
All in just a few hours.
Amazing.
"dreamznatcher" <ta************@gmail.comwrote in message
news:11**********************@z28g2000prd.googlegr oups.com...
Hello,
I'm considering a career switch to a more database-related job, but
need help on a few questions and issues. I'm a Computer Engineering
graduate and have always felt most comfortable creating database-
driven applications, preferably for web portals.
[My questions:]
1. What are the most viable career options for me out there? What
profile do I fit in?
2. What is the current job market/salary situation for database
professionals? With my current skills, what kind of job might I end up
with?
3. What are the stuff I should focus/learn to advance my skills
optimally?
4. And finally, is there any university degree (MS) specializing in
databases anywhere? (I'm also deeply interested in the internal
mechanism/theoretical aspect of databases.)
_Please read my (following) profile before replying!_
[I'm proficient in: ]
- Oracle (8i, 9i), MySQL (4.1.xx), MS Access
- Have working knowledge of SQL Server 2000
- Intend to learn SQLite and MySQL 5 soon
- HTML, DHTML, CSS
- JS, PHP
- Intend to learn AJAX, JSON, ASP.Net soon
[I feel my strengths are: ]
- I can design database systems (I don't know if that's the right
name to call it) on a very
short notice. However complex the application, it never takes me more
than a few hours (in the
very extreme of cases, and including drafting frontend layouts) to
chalk the whole thing out.
- I'm good at debugging, and am extremely meticulous about good
coding practices and error and exception handling.
- I'm good at designing good, clean webpages and emphasize on an
optimal use of CSS.
- I'm quick to learn.
[Among professional projects I've done are: ]
1. A Content Management System (CMS) for a running national daily
newspaper
2. A complete University Management System
3. An image archive containing thousands of photos
4. A website for a newspaper
Help! And many thanks in advance.
dzn
Whatever else you do, don't turn 40.
On Jun 30, 10:12 am, DA Morgan <damor...@psoug.orgwrote:
dreamznatcher wrote:
Hello,
I'm considering a career switch to a more database-related job, but
need help on a few questions and issues. I'm a Computer Engineering
graduate and have always felt most comfortable creating database-
driven applications, preferably for web portals.
[My questions:]
1. What are the most viable career options for me out there? What
profile do I fit in?
You don't fit into any specific hash bucket but rather likely have
the ability to morph into whichever one you wish.
Rather than approaching it from the standpoint of "I'm a square peg
which hole should I put myself in?" Turn it around and say "I am a
morphable peg and which hole would I most enjoy being in?"
2. What is the current job market/salary situation for database
professionals? With my current skills, what kind of job might I end up
with?
Best place to look is dice.com, monster.com, hotjobs.com, etc. But
the job market today is not the job market of tomorrow. Certainly
there are some things that are safer bets than others. One can
essentially guarantee Oracle will still be around in 20 years whereas
one can be rather certain a large number of products and companies
will not be: At least not in their current form.
3. What are the stuff I should focus/learn to advance my skills
optimally?
Depends on what you want to be doing when you are 57 years old. The
only correct answer is asking strangers is a sure road to disaster.
4. And finally, is there any university degree (MS) specializing in
databases anywhere? (I'm also deeply interested in the internal
mechanism/theoretical aspect of databases.)
What country? I'm not aware of one in the US but you might want to
contact Professor Carl Dudley at University of Wolverhampton with
respect to the EU.
_Please read my (following) profile before replying!_
[I'm proficient in: ]
- Oracle (8i, 9i), MySQL (4.1.xx), MS Access
- Have working knowledge of SQL Server 2000
- Intend to learn SQLite and MySQL 5 soon
- HTML, DHTML, CSS
- JS, PHP
- Intend to learn AJAX, JSON, ASP.Net soon
To be brutally honest with you ... no you aren't. One of the things
that gets me to toss a resume into the discard pile when looking at
resumes is a laundry list of technologies so vast no person could
possibly be competent in all of them. Above is such a list and not
only are you not proficient in all of them neither is anyone else.
Lists like this create an immediate negative impression except in
HR departments staffed by former shoe salesmen. <g>
--
Daniel A. Morgan
University of Washington
damor...@x.washington.edu (replace x with u to respond)
Puget Sound Oracle Users Groupwww.psoug.org
Mr. Morgan said "I'm a morphable peg and which hole would I most enjoy
being in"?.
Yikes.
"hpuxrac" <jo*********@sbcglobal.netwrote in message
news:11**********************@q69g2000hsb.googlegr oups.com...
>
Mr. Morgan said "I'm a morphable peg and which hole would I most enjoy
being in"?.
Yikes.
Yes, we were all thinking it.
R.
hpuxrac wrote:
Mr. Morgan said "I'm a morphable peg and which hole would I most enjoy
being in"?.
Yikes.
I'm an optimist and you can frolic in the double entendre' if you wish. <g>
--
Daniel A. Morgan
University of Washington da******@x.washington.edu (replace x with u to respond)
Puget Sound Oracle Users Group www.psoug.org
"David Cressey" <cr*******@verizon.netwrote:
[snip]
>Whatever else you do, don't turn 40.
It will not be for a while for me. I am only 2E.
Sincerely,
Gene Wirchenko
Computerese Irregular Verb Conjugation:
I have preferences.
You have biases.
He/She has prejudices.
hpuxrac wrote:
On Jun 30, 10:12 am, DA Morgan <damor...@psoug.orgwrote:
>>dreamznatcher wrote:
>>>Hello,
I'm considering a career switch to a more database-related job, but
need help on a few questions and issues. I'm a Computer Engineering
graduate and have always felt most comfortable creating database-
driven applications, preferably for web portals.
>>>[My questions:]
1. What are the most viable career options for me out there? What
profile do I fit in?
You don't fit into any specific hash bucket but rather likely have
the ability to morph into whichever one you wish.
Rather than approaching it from the standpoint of "I'm a square peg
which hole should I put myself in?" Turn it around and say "I am a
morphable peg and which hole would I most enjoy being in?"
>>>2. What is the current job market/salary situation for database
professionals? With my current skills, what kind of job might I end up
with?
Best place to look is dice.com, monster.com, hotjobs.com, etc. But
the job market today is not the job market of tomorrow. Certainly
there are some things that are safer bets than others. One can
essentially guarantee Oracle will still be around in 20 years whereas
one can be rather certain a large number of products and companies
will not be: At least not in their current form.
>>>3. What are the stuff I should focus/learn to advance my skills
optimally?
Depends on what you want to be doing when you are 57 years old. The
only correct answer is asking strangers is a sure road to disaster.
>>>4. And finally, is there any university degree (MS) specializing in
databases anywhere? (I'm also deeply interested in the internal
mechanism/theoretical aspect of databases.)
What country? I'm not aware of one in the US but you might want to
contact Professor Carl Dudley at University of Wolverhampton with
respect to the EU.
>>>_Please read my (following) profile before replying!_
>>>[I'm proficient in: ]
- Oracle (8i, 9i), MySQL (4.1.xx), MS Access
- Have working knowledge of SQL Server 2000
- Intend to learn SQLite and MySQL 5 soon
>>>- HTML, DHTML, CSS
- JS, PHP
- Intend to learn AJAX, JSON, ASP.Net soon
To be brutally honest with you ... no you aren't. One of the things
that gets me to toss a resume into the discard pile when looking at
resumes is a laundry list of technologies so vast no person could
possibly be competent in all of them. Above is such a list and not
only are you not proficient in all of them neither is anyone else.
Lists like this create an immediate negative impression except in
HR departments staffed by former shoe salesmen. <g>
--
Daniel A. Morgan
University of Washington
damor...@x.washington.edu (replace x with u to respond)
Puget Sound Oracle Users Groupwww.psoug.org
Mr. Morgan said "I'm a morphable peg and which hole would I most enjoy
being in"?.
Yikes.
He also said the above is a long list of technologies that nobody could
learn. I suspect he is mentally retarded and doesn't realize it yet so
he assumes everybody else is too.
On Jun 30, 8:12 pm, DA Morgan <damor...@psoug.orgwrote:
dreamznatcher wrote:
Hello,
I'm considering a career switch to a more database-related job, but
need help on a few questions and issues. I'm a Computer Engineering
graduate and have always felt most comfortable creating database-
driven applications, preferably for web portals.
[My questions:]
1. What are the most viable career options for me out there? What
profile do I fit in?
You don't fit into any specific hash bucket but rather likely have
the ability to morph into whichever one you wish.
Rather than approaching it from the standpoint of "I'm a square peg
which hole should I put myself in?" Turn it around and say "I am a
morphable peg and which hole would I most enjoy being in?"
2. What is the current job market/salary situation for database
professionals? With my current skills, what kind of job might I end up
with?
Best place to look is dice.com, monster.com, hotjobs.com, etc. But
the job market today is not the job market of tomorrow. Certainly
there are some things that are safer bets than others. One can
essentially guarantee Oracle will still be around in 20 years whereas
one can be rather certain a large number of products and companies
will not be: At least not in their current form.
3. What are the stuff I should focus/learn to advance my skills
optimally?
Depends on what you want to be doing when you are 57 years old. The
only correct answer is asking strangers is a sure road to disaster.
4. And finally, is there any university degree (MS) specializing in
databases anywhere? (I'm also deeply interested in the internal
mechanism/theoretical aspect of databases.)
What country? I'm not aware of one in the US but you might want to
contact Professor Carl Dudley at University of Wolverhampton with
respect to the EU.
_Please read my (following) profile before replying!_
[I'm proficient in: ]
- Oracle (8i, 9i), MySQL (4.1.xx), MS Access
- Have working knowledge of SQL Server 2000
- Intend to learn SQLite and MySQL 5 soon
- HTML, DHTML, CSS
- JS, PHP
- Intend to learn AJAX, JSON, ASP.Net soon
To be brutally honest with you ... no you aren't. One of the things
that gets me to toss a resume into the discard pile when looking at
resumes is a laundry list of technologies so vast no person could
possibly be competent in all of them. Above is such a list and not
only are you not proficient in all of them neither is anyone else.
Lists like this create an immediate negative impression except in
HR departments staffed by former shoe salesmen. <g>
--
Daniel A. Morgan
University of Washington
damor...@x.washington.edu (replace x with u to respond)
Puget Sound Oracle Users Groupwww.psoug.org
Hello everyone,
(Mr Morgan and rkc on comp.databases.ms-access:)
I've mailed you about this a little while ago (I actually wanted to
post it but had clicked on "Reply to author"), but don't want to
bother you further on this and through your mailbox, so I'm posting
this here again.
Yes, I am extremely sorry for appearing so naive and having such ill
taste, but I tried to express my situation as honestly as possible and
unfortunately that's what I came up with. I do agree with you on the
use of the word "proficient" -- one truly cannot be that skilled in
anything these days. All I wanted to say was that I know a bit of
those stuff, enough to get my work done, and not in standards
considerably horrible by any means.
I don't claim that I'm bullet-proof in any of the scripting languages
or web stuff I've mentioned. But I do know that I can conceptualize
(including front-end design and dealing with constraints and integrity
issues) complex database-shouldered systems (here's one for you: I
often fiddle with the idea of creating a singular application that can
integrate and manage all the possible tasks, divisions and departments
of an organization on the scale of the EU or UN in their totality)
pretty fast (fast, e.g. I was working on this project that would
handle $30M in the national reserve, an application that would reduce
stagnancy of stored cash in the banking network by branching out to
web portals that would circulate revenue. The idea is far more
complicated than can be stated in a few lines, and was slated to be
reviewed by the Finance Ministry. If anyone of you follow the current
political scenario of Bangladesh, you'd know drastic political changes
are going about here, and the project got lost amidst more realistic
problems in the backdrop of a country where computer literacy accounts
for less than one percent. Getting back to the time factor, the whole
thing only took me 2 days to chalk out, including drafting the
interfaces.) I'm no expert, but whenever I took a database related
course in my university, literally half of the CSC department would
crash in to watch the demonstrations. Teachers and students would
repeatedly inquire about my project throughout the semester, and the
whole faculty has repeatedly asked me to get serious in this business.
These are the kind of things that have got me inspired and pushed the
humble, stupid likes of me far enough to be seeking for your advice.
As I've mentioned, I come from Bangladesh. Lots of problems abound in
the tech domain here: lack of books and information, near-zero
advanced expertise in specialized fields, sluggish bandwidth, fund
crises, lack of support from the government, a dearth of firsts.
Therefore, questions I might be asking might actually appear more
stupid in your context than ours.
By posting this post (the original one and this), I didn't and don't
intend to appear smart, or show off (I very definitely know how
illiterate I am in this area), or pull anyone's leg, etc. I started it
because I am just an average mid-career guy who feels he has a knack
for something and would like to pursue it, despite all odds if
necessary, and just want to know what the odds are in advance and from
people who are most certainly more knowledgable than I am.
No offence, and thank you to everyone in all earnest.
dzn
Gene Wirchenko wrote:
"David Cressey" <cr*******@verizon.netwrote:
[snip]
>Whatever else you do, don't turn 40.
It will not be for a while for me. I am only 2E.
Like the Beatles in this 40, ehrm 28 year old song:
Will they still need me
Will they still feed me
When I'm X-four-O http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=_MYBXNC1yvo
But look what is going on with 41 year old Paul McCartney ...
--
Jeroen
Bob Badour wrote:
He also said the above is a long list of technologies that nobody could
learn. I suspect he is mentally retarded and doesn't realize it yet so
he assumes everybody else is too.
Are you willing to stand up in front of an audience of 200+ developers
and DBAs, averaging 7.5 years of experience, and field live questions
on just one of those products: The Oracle 10g database?
There are a small number of us that do. Any time you want to join us
let me know and I will give you that opportunity. It will be really
interesting to watch you back up your words with action, at a podium
in a lecture hall, and with no prop other than a SQL*Plus command line.
Pick any date between August 19 and December 19, 2007.
In the learning curve of all skills and technologies there is a point
where one begins and they know they know nothing. Then they gain a
little knowledge and they think they know it all (sort of like being
a teenager). Some dig deeper and learn how much they really don't know.
Perhaps Bob you are one of those that never took that final step. I've
never met you so I don't know. But I do know that the real experts
never make the mistake you just made.
Your bluff and bluster have been called Bob. If you do it and can walk
the walk I will personally reimburse your airplane ticket and hotel.
--
Daniel A. Morgan
University of Washington da******@x.washington.edu (replace x with u to respond)
Puget Sound Oracle Users Group www.psoug.org
dreamznatcher wrote:
On Jun 30, 8:12 pm, DA Morgan <damor...@psoug.orgwrote:
>dreamznatcher wrote:
>>Hello,
I'm considering a career switch to a more database-related job, but
need help on a few questions and issues. I'm a Computer Engineering
graduate and have always felt most comfortable creating database-
driven applications, preferably for web portals.
[My questions:]
1. What are the most viable career options for me out there? What
profile do I fit in?
You don't fit into any specific hash bucket but rather likely have
the ability to morph into whichever one you wish.
Rather than approaching it from the standpoint of "I'm a square peg
which hole should I put myself in?" Turn it around and say "I am a
morphable peg and which hole would I most enjoy being in?"
>>2. What is the current job market/salary situation for database
professionals? With my current skills, what kind of job might I end up
with?
Best place to look is dice.com, monster.com, hotjobs.com, etc. But
the job market today is not the job market of tomorrow. Certainly
there are some things that are safer bets than others. One can
essentially guarantee Oracle will still be around in 20 years whereas
one can be rather certain a large number of products and companies
will not be: At least not in their current form.
>>3. What are the stuff I should focus/learn to advance my skills
optimally?
Depends on what you want to be doing when you are 57 years old. The
only correct answer is asking strangers is a sure road to disaster.
>>4. And finally, is there any university degree (MS) specializing in
databases anywhere? (I'm also deeply interested in the internal
mechanism/theoretical aspect of databases.)
What country? I'm not aware of one in the US but you might want to
contact Professor Carl Dudley at University of Wolverhampton with
respect to the EU.
>>_Please read my (following) profile before replying!_
[I'm proficient in: ]
- Oracle (8i, 9i), MySQL (4.1.xx), MS Access
- Have working knowledge of SQL Server 2000
- Intend to learn SQLite and MySQL 5 soon
- HTML, DHTML, CSS
- JS, PHP
- Intend to learn AJAX, JSON, ASP.Net soon
To be brutally honest with you ... no you aren't. One of the things
that gets me to toss a resume into the discard pile when looking at
resumes is a laundry list of technologies so vast no person could
possibly be competent in all of them. Above is such a list and not
only are you not proficient in all of them neither is anyone else.
Lists like this create an immediate negative impression except in
HR departments staffed by former shoe salesmen. <g>
--
Daniel A. Morgan
University of Washington
damor...@x.washington.edu (replace x with u to respond)
Puget Sound Oracle Users Groupwww.psoug.org
Hello everyone,
(Mr Morgan and rkc on comp.databases.ms-access:)
I've mailed you about this a little while ago (I actually wanted to
post it but had clicked on "Reply to author"), but don't want to
bother you further on this and through your mailbox, so I'm posting
this here again.
Yes, I am extremely sorry for appearing so naive and having such ill
taste, but I tried to express my situation as honestly as possible and
unfortunately that's what I came up with. I do agree with you on the
use of the word "proficient" -- one truly cannot be that skilled in
anything these days. All I wanted to say was that I know a bit of
those stuff, enough to get my work done, and not in standards
considerably horrible by any means.
I don't claim that I'm bullet-proof in any of the scripting languages
or web stuff I've mentioned. But I do know that I can conceptualize
(including front-end design and dealing with constraints and integrity
issues) complex database-shouldered systems (here's one for you: I
often fiddle with the idea of creating a singular application that can
integrate and manage all the possible tasks, divisions and departments
of an organization on the scale of the EU or UN in their totality)
pretty fast (fast, e.g. I was working on this project that would
handle $30M in the national reserve, an application that would reduce
stagnancy of stored cash in the banking network by branching out to
web portals that would circulate revenue. The idea is far more
complicated than can be stated in a few lines, and was slated to be
reviewed by the Finance Ministry. If anyone of you follow the current
political scenario of Bangladesh, you'd know drastic political changes
are going about here, and the project got lost amidst more realistic
problems in the backdrop of a country where computer literacy accounts
for less than one percent. Getting back to the time factor, the whole
thing only took me 2 days to chalk out, including drafting the
interfaces.) I'm no expert, but whenever I took a database related
course in my university, literally half of the CSC department would
crash in to watch the demonstrations. Teachers and students would
repeatedly inquire about my project throughout the semester, and the
whole faculty has repeatedly asked me to get serious in this business.
These are the kind of things that have got me inspired and pushed the
humble, stupid likes of me far enough to be seeking for your advice.
As I've mentioned, I come from Bangladesh. Lots of problems abound in
the tech domain here: lack of books and information, near-zero
advanced expertise in specialized fields, sluggish bandwidth, fund
crises, lack of support from the government, a dearth of firsts.
Therefore, questions I might be asking might actually appear more
stupid in your context than ours.
By posting this post (the original one and this), I didn't and don't
intend to appear smart, or show off (I very definitely know how
illiterate I am in this area), or pull anyone's leg, etc. I started it
because I am just an average mid-career guy who feels he has a knack
for something and would like to pursue it, despite all odds if
necessary, and just want to know what the odds are in advance and from
people who are most certainly more knowledgable than I am.
No offence, and thank you to everyone in all earnest.
dzn
I'm impressed: If I can help you email me at the university.
--
Daniel A. Morgan
University of Washington da******@x.washington.edu (replace x with u to respond)
Puget Sound Oracle Users Group www.psoug.org
On Jul 1, 5:06 am, DA Morgan <damor...@psoug.orgwrote:
dreamznatcher wrote:
On Jun 30, 8:12 pm, DA Morgan <damor...@psoug.orgwrote:
dreamznatcher wrote:
Hello,
I'm considering a career switch to a more database-related job, but
need help on a few questions and issues. I'm a Computer Engineering
graduate and have always felt most comfortable creating database-
driven applications, preferably for web portals.
[My questions:]
1. What are the most viable career options for me out there? What
profile do I fit in?
You don't fit into any specific hash bucket but rather likely have
the ability to morph into whichever one you wish.
Rather than approaching it from the standpoint of "I'm a square peg
which hole should I put myself in?" Turn it around and say "I am a
morphable peg and which hole would I most enjoy being in?"
>2. What is the current job market/salary situation for database
professionals? With my current skills, what kind of job might I end up
with?
Best place to look is dice.com, monster.com, hotjobs.com, etc. But
the job market today is not the job market of tomorrow. Certainly
there are some things that are safer bets than others. One can
essentially guarantee Oracle will still be around in 20 years whereas
one can be rather certain a large number of products and companies
will not be: At least not in their current form.
>3. What are the stuff I should focus/learn to advance my skills
optimally?
Depends on what you want to be doing when you are 57 years old. The
only correct answer is asking strangers is a sure road to disaster.
>4. And finally, is there any university degree (MS) specializing in
databases anywhere? (I'm also deeply interested in the internal
mechanism/theoretical aspect of databases.)
What country? I'm not aware of one in the US but you might want to
contact Professor Carl Dudley at University of Wolverhampton with
respect to the EU.
>_Please read my (following) profile before replying!_
[I'm proficient in: ]
- Oracle (8i, 9i), MySQL (4.1.xx), MS Access
- Have working knowledge of SQL Server 2000
- Intend to learn SQLite and MySQL 5 soon
- HTML, DHTML, CSS
- JS, PHP
- Intend to learn AJAX, JSON, ASP.Net soon
To be brutally honest with you ... no you aren't. One of the things
that gets me to toss a resume into the discard pile when looking at
resumes is a laundry list of technologies so vast no person could
possibly be competent in all of them. Above is such a list and not
only are you not proficient in all of them neither is anyone else.
Lists like this create an immediate negative impression except in
HR departments staffed by former shoe salesmen. <g>
--
Daniel A. Morgan
University of Washington
damor...@x.washington.edu (replace x with u to respond)
Puget Sound Oracle Users Groupwww.psoug.org
Hello everyone,
(Mr Morgan and rkc on comp.databases.ms-access:)
I've mailed you about this a little while ago (I actually wanted to
post it but had clicked on "Reply to author"), but don't want to
bother you further on this and through your mailbox, so I'm posting
this here again.
Yes, I am extremely sorry for appearing so naive and having such ill
taste, but I tried to express my situation as honestly as possible and
unfortunately that's what I came up with. I do agree with you on the
use of the word "proficient" -- one truly cannot be that skilled in
anything these days. All I wanted to say was that I know a bit of
those stuff, enough to get my work done, and not in standards
considerably horrible by any means.
I don't claim that I'm bullet-proof in any of the scripting languages
or web stuff I've mentioned. But I do know that I can conceptualize
(including front-end design and dealing with constraints and integrity
issues) complex database-shouldered systems (here's one for you: I
often fiddle with the idea of creating a singular application that can
integrate and manage all the possible tasks, divisions and departments
of an organization on the scale of the EU or UN in their totality)
pretty fast (fast, e.g. I was working on this project that would
handle $30M in the national reserve, an application that would reduce
stagnancy of stored cash in the banking network by branching out to
web portals that would circulate revenue. The idea is far more
complicated than can be stated in a few lines, and was slated to be
reviewed by the Finance Ministry. If anyone of you follow the current
political scenario of Bangladesh, you'd know drastic political changes
are going about here, and the project got lost amidst more realistic
problems in the backdrop of a country where computer literacy accounts
for less than one percent. Getting back to the time factor, the whole
thing only took me 2 days to chalk out, including drafting the
interfaces.) I'm no expert, but whenever I took a database related
course in my university, literally half of the CSC department would
crash in to watch the demonstrations. Teachers and students would
repeatedly inquire about my project throughout the semester, and the
whole faculty has repeatedly asked me to get serious in this business.
These are the kind of things that have got me inspired and pushed the
humble, stupid likes of me far enough to be seeking for your advice.
As I've mentioned, I come from Bangladesh. Lots of problems abound in
the tech domain here: lack of books and information, near-zero
advanced expertise in specialized fields, sluggish bandwidth, fund
crises, lack of support from the government, a dearth of firsts.
Therefore, questions I might be asking might actually appear more
stupid in your context than ours.
By posting this post (the original one and this), I didn't and don't
intend to appear smart, or show off (I very definitely know how
illiterate I am in this area), or pull anyone's leg, etc. I started it
because I am just an average mid-career guy who feels he has a knack
for something and would like to pursue it, despite all odds if
necessary, and just want to know what the odds are in advance and from
people who are most certainly more knowledgable than I am.
No offence, and thank you to everyone in all earnest.
dzn
I'm impressed: If I can help you email me at the university.
--
Daniel A. Morgan
University of Washington
damor...@x.washington.edu (replace x with u to respond)
Puget Sound Oracle Users Groupwww.psoug.org
Dear Mr Morgan,
Sorry for being such a bother. Thank you, I will indeed knock if I
need directions. I'm extremely grateful.
"DA Morgan" <da******@psoug.orgwrote
In the learning curve of all skills and technologies
there is a point where one begins and they know
they know nothing.
Before there was any software product category for "databases," I remember
hearing the following definition:
Generalist: One who learns less and less about more
and more until he knows nothing about everything.
Specialist: One who learns more and more about less
and less until he knows everything about nothing.
Keep us advised as to when Bob is coming to the meeting; I need a good
reason to come to Seattle, anyway. :-)
In a previous incarnation as a mainframer with a major computer
manufacturer, I sometimes had the chore of reviewing applications and
recommending who my manager should interview. I surely passed on a lot of
them which claimed more knowledge than was possible, just as you said. I
was in a contracting group in that company and our skills inventory had
several levels -- most of us didn't even bother to put down the "1" level,
which only meant that you'd heard of the product and had a pretty good idea
what it was intended to do. It was a long time ago, and I forget whether
the top level was 5 or 10, but it meant that you had sufficient knowledge to
modify the internals of the software product. Anybody who had more than a
very few products marked at that level was automatically suspect for
"bragging".
There's a lifetime of effort, I am certain, to simply maintain competence
with Oracle, much less to reach a level where people regard you as "expert."
And most of the people I regard as "expert" in various disciplines prefer
not to be called "expert", in any case.
Larry
On Jun 30, 7:05 pm, DA Morgan <damor...@psoug.orgwrote:
Bob Badour wrote:
He also said the above is a long list of technologies that nobody could
learn. I suspect he is mentally retarded and doesn't realize it yet so
he assumes everybody else is too.
Are you willing to stand up in front of an audience of 200+ developers
and DBAs, averaging 7.5 years of experience, and field live questions
on just one of those products: The Oracle 10g database?
There are a small number of us that do. Any time you want to join us
let me know and I will give you that opportunity. It will be really
interesting to watch you back up your words with action, at a podium
in a lecture hall, and with no prop other than a SQL*Plus command line.
Pick any date between August 19 and December 19, 2007.
In the learning curve of all skills and technologies there is a point
where one begins and they know they know nothing. Then they gain a
little knowledge and they think they know it all (sort of like being
a teenager). Some dig deeper and learn how much they really don't know.
Perhaps Bob you are one of those that never took that final step. I've
never met you so I don't know. But I do know that the real experts
never make the mistake you just made.
Calling yourself an expert is not the approach I would recommend.
Usually experts are recognized by other people not by themselves. I
am more than willing to call Tom Kyte or Cary Millsap or Jonathan
Lewis an expert.
Are you in the Foxpro development community?? This is the Oracle
development community, unless this was cross posted to the Foxpro area..
"Gene Wirchenko" <ge***@ocis.netwrote in message
news:q9********************************@4ax.com...
"David Cressey" <cr*******@verizon.netwrote:
[snip]
>>Whatever else you do, don't turn 40.
It will not be for a while for me. I am only 2E.
Sincerely,
Gene Wirchenko
Computerese Irregular Verb Conjugation:
I have preferences.
You have biases.
He/She has prejudices.
"Tony_Miller" <No********@yahoo.comwrote:
>Are you in the Foxpro development community?? This is the Oracle
development community, unless this was cross posted to the Foxpro area..
Yes, I am.
Check the headers, and you will see that the thread has been
getting posted to comp.databases.ms-access,
comp.databases.oracle.server, and comp.databases.theory. I am
following it from cdt.
[snip]
Sincerely,
Gene Wirchenko
Computerese Irregular Verb Conjugation:
I have preferences.
You have biases.
He/She has prejudices.
hpuxrac wrote:
On Jun 30, 7:05 pm, DA Morgan <damor...@psoug.orgwrote:
>>Bob Badour wrote:
>>>He also said the above is a long list of technologies that nobody could
learn. I suspect he is mentally retarded and doesn't realize it yet so
he assumes everybody else is too.
Are you willing to stand up in front of an audience of 200+ developers
and DBAs, averaging 7.5 years of experience, and field live questions
on just one of those products: The Oracle 10g database?
There are a small number of us that do. Any time you want to join us
let me know and I will give you that opportunity. It will be really
interesting to watch you back up your words with action, at a podium
in a lecture hall, and with no prop other than a SQL*Plus command line.
Pick any date between August 19 and December 19, 2007.
In the learning curve of all skills and technologies there is a point
where one begins and they know they know nothing. Then they gain a
little knowledge and they think they know it all (sort of like being
a teenager). Some dig deeper and learn how much they really don't know.
Perhaps Bob you are one of those that never took that final step. I've
never met you so I don't know. But I do know that the real experts
never make the mistake you just made.
Calling yourself an expert is not the approach I would recommend.
Usually experts are recognized by other people not by themselves. I
am more than willing to call Tom Kyte or Cary Millsap or Jonathan
Lewis an expert.
Apparently Morgan's mental retardation stems from an inability to
comprehend written english.
"hpuxrac" <jo*********@sbcglobal.netwrote in message
As unfortunate as it sounds, often you learn the most from mistakes
that you make during the design process. Many of us have been around
long enough and made enough mistakes ( regrettably ) that experience
starts sounding alarms when the design has problems.
A good alternative to learning from your own mistakes is learning from the
mistakes of others. The cost is much lower. However, the first thing you
have to learn is not to be dismissive of other people's mistakes. No one is
a total fool, even in this industry. A mistake made by someone else is a
mistake made by someone who is not a total fool.
Another alternative to learning from your own mistakes is to learn the
fundamentals before you spend too much time making expensive mistakes.
David Cressey wrote:
"hpuxrac" <jo*********@sbcglobal.netwrote in message
>>As unfortunate as it sounds, often you learn the most from mistakes
that you make during the design process. Many of us have been around
long enough and made enough mistakes ( regrettably ) that experience
starts sounding alarms when the design has problems.
A good alternative to learning from your own mistakes is learning from the
mistakes of others. The cost is much lower. However, the first thing you
have to learn is not to be dismissive of other people's mistakes. No one is
a total fool, even in this industry. A mistake made by someone else is a
mistake made by someone who is not a total fool.
Sigh. Apparently, you have not been listening. While not everyone is a
total fool, total fools abound.
Another alternative to learning from your own mistakes is to learn the
fundamentals before you spend too much time making expensive mistakes.
While it is impossible to completely eliminate the former type of
learning, one will hardly progress at all without the latter type of
learning.
Bob Badour wrote:
hpuxrac wrote:
>On Jun 30, 7:05 pm, DA Morgan <damor...@psoug.orgwrote:
>>Bob Badour wrote:
He also said the above is a long list of technologies that nobody could
learn. I suspect he is mentally retarded and doesn't realize it yet so
he assumes everybody else is too.
Are you willing to stand up in front of an audience of 200+ developers
and DBAs, averaging 7.5 years of experience, and field live questions
on just one of those products: The Oracle 10g database?
There are a small number of us that do. Any time you want to join us
let me know and I will give you that opportunity. It will be really
interesting to watch you back up your words with action, at a podium
in a lecture hall, and with no prop other than a SQL*Plus command line.
Pick any date between August 19 and December 19, 2007.
In the learning curve of all skills and technologies there is a point
where one begins and they know they know nothing. Then they gain a
little knowledge and they think they know it all (sort of like being
a teenager). Some dig deeper and learn how much they really don't know.
Perhaps Bob you are one of those that never took that final step. I've
never met you so I don't know. But I do know that the real experts
never make the mistake you just made.
Calling yourself an expert is not the approach I would recommend.
Usually experts are recognized by other people not by themselves. I
am more than willing to call Tom Kyte or Cary Millsap or Jonathan
Lewis an expert.
Apparently Morgan's mental retardation stems from an inability to
comprehend written english.
Bob ... he mean't like this: http://www.oracle.com/technology/com...e2.html#morgan
Rather than like this: http://www.oracle.com/technology/com...ace1.html#kyte http://www.oracle.com/technology/com...ce1.html#lewis http://www.oracle.com/technology/com...2.html#millsap
You see there's a difference. <g>
And I see you are unwilling to stand up in public and demonstrate your
superior skills on even a single product. Thanks for proving my point.
You can talk the talk but you can't walk the walk. As they say in Texas:
All hat.
--
Daniel A. Morgan
University of Washington da******@x.washington.edu (replace x with u to respond)
Puget Sound Oracle Users Group www.psoug.org
On Jul 1, 10:47 am, DA Morgan <damor...@psoug.orgwrote:
Bob Badour wrote:
hpuxrac wrote:
On Jun 30, 7:05 pm, DA Morgan <damor...@psoug.orgwrote:
>Bob Badour wrote:
>>He also said the above is a long list of technologies that nobody could
learn. I suspect he is mentally retarded and doesn't realize it yet so
he assumes everybody else is too.
>Are you willing to stand up in front of an audience of 200+ developers
and DBAs, averaging 7.5 years of experience, and field live questions
on just one of those products: The Oracle 10g database?
>There are a small number of us that do. Any time you want to join us
let me know and I will give you that opportunity. It will be really
interesting to watch you back up your words with action, at a podium
in a lecture hall, and with no prop other than a SQL*Plus command line.
Pick any date between August 19 and December 19, 2007.
>In the learning curve of all skills and technologies there is a point
where one begins and they know they know nothing. Then they gain a
little knowledge and they think they know it all (sort of like being
a teenager). Some dig deeper and learn how much they really don't know.
Perhaps Bob you are one of those that never took that final step. I've
never met you so I don't know. But I do know that the real experts
never make the mistake you just made.
Calling yourself an expert is not the approach I would recommend.
Usually experts are recognized by other people not by themselves. I
am more than willing to call Tom Kyte or Cary Millsap or Jonathan
Lewis an expert.
Apparently Morgan's mental retardation stems from an inability to
comprehend written english.
Bob ... he mean't like this:http://www.oracle.com/technology/com...e2.html#morgan
Rather than like this:http://www.oracle.com/technology/com...2.html#millsap
You see there's a difference. <g>
No that's not what I meant.
Any vendor based recognition system is going to be biased and heavily
weighted to recognize people that promote themselves the most
aggressively at the very best.
Fill in as appropriate for what it might mean at the worst.
hpuxrac wrote:
On Jul 1, 10:47 am, DA Morgan <damor...@psoug.orgwrote:
>>Bob Badour wrote:
>>>hpuxrac wrote:
>>>>On Jun 30, 7:05 pm, DA Morgan <damor...@psoug.orgwrote:
>>>>>Bob Badour wrote:
>>>>>>He also said the above is a long list of technologies that nobody could
>>learn. I suspect he is mentally retarded and doesn't realize it yet so
>>he assumes everybody else is too.
>>>>>Are you willing to stand up in front of an audience of 200+ developers
>and DBAs, averaging 7.5 years of experience, and field live questions
>on just one of those products: The Oracle 10g database?
>>>>>There are a small number of us that do. Any time you want to join us
>let me know and I will give you that opportunity. It will be really
>interesting to watch you back up your words with action, at a podium
>in a lecture hall, and with no prop other than a SQL*Plus command line.
>Pick any date between August 19 and December 19, 2007.
>>>>>In the learning curve of all skills and technologies there is a point
>where one begins and they know they know nothing. Then they gain a
>little knowledge and they think they know it all (sort of like being
>a teenager). Some dig deeper and learn how much they really don't know.
>Perhaps Bob you are one of those that never took that final step. I've
>never met you so I don't know. But I do know that the real experts
>never make the mistake you just made.
>>>>Calling yourself an expert is not the approach I would recommend.
>>>>Usually experts are recognized by other people not by themselves. I
am more than willing to call Tom Kyte or Cary Millsap or Jonathan
Lewis an expert.
>>>Apparently Morgan's mental retardation stems from an inability to
comprehend written english.
Bob ... he mean't like this:http://www.oracle.com/technology/com...e2.html#morgan
Morgan confirms his inability to comprehend written english and further
suggests a psychotic belief in mindreading abilities. Combined, those
would certainly retard him.
hpuxrac wrote:
>You see there's a difference. <g>
No that's not what I meant.
"For 'tis the sport to have the enginer
Hoist with his owne petar"
--
Daniel A. Morgan
University of Washington da******@x.washington.edu (replace x with u to respond)
Puget Sound Oracle Users Group www.psoug.org
Bob Badour wrote:
Morgan confirms his inability to comprehend written english and further
suggests a psychotic belief in mindreading abilities. Combined, those
would certainly retard him.
I missed the date you chose to come out here and be a guest lecturer at
the University of Washington. Could you please repost it.
Thanks.
--
Daniel A. Morgan
University of Washington da******@x.washington.edu (replace x with u to respond)
Puget Sound Oracle Users Group www.psoug.org
"Bruce C. Baker" <bc*@undisclosedlocation.netwrote in message
news:Do***********@newsfe19.lga...
What do we call DBAs who are somewhere between incompetent and proficient,
and what would their qualifications be? In general, how many levels of DBA
ability are there, and what does one have to know/be able to do to qualify
for each of them?
"Coming up to speed" or "associate DBAs".
DA Morgan wrote:
The incompetent DBA is not doing backups or not verifying that their
backups can be used to restore and recover. The mediocre DBA is writing
shell scripts to do backup and tested it once. The average DBA is using
RMAN but doesn't really know the tool except to repeat, day after day,
what they did the day before. The proficient DBA, like Sybrand for
example, has knowledge of the underlying built-in packages and the
tables storing metadata in the repository. The expert writes RMAN
scripts, without the aide of websites or books, capable of making
the tool sing and dance.
Seems a bit harsh that anyone not using oracle is at best mediocre ;-)
/Lennart
Neil wrote:
Not to pound this into the ground, but I think, with any technology, there
are various aspects of the technology that one could be proficient in
without being proficient in all aspects of the technology. (Perhaps one
could postulate that being proficient in all or nearly all aspects of a
technology might be a definition of being "expert").
Pound away ... it is an important topic.
When I worked onsite as a contractor, I was both involved with hiring
individuals, and was hired by individuals. Typically, when one was looking
for a candidate for a position, what was required was that one was
proficient in various aspects of the technology, not all aspects. A person
may say, "I've never done this or that, but I've done this and that," and
that would be enough, since we weren't looking for someone "expert" in the
technology, but merely "proficient" in the technology.
So for someone to put on their resume that they are "proficient" in a
technology because they can work with some aspects of a technology, but not
necessarily all aspects, is, in my opinion, very legitimate. That could be
all that a client is looking for.
I agree. There are part of Oracle in which I would claim proficiency and
there are others where I know I am not. For someone to write: "I am
proficient in these areas of a technology" makes perfect sense. But to
claim you are proficient in the Oracle 10g database, for example, makes
me look to see whether your last name is Jacobs or Kyte.
But I agree that many people put items on their resume if they just
"breathed" on it or had the most basic of experience in it. That's
illegitmate. But not being expert, but being proficient to perform tasks,
even if not all tasks, is, in my opinion, a legitimate reason to put it on
one's resume.
Neil
And with this I think we have achieved at least a two person consensus.
--
Daniel A. Morgan
University of Washington da******@x.washington.edu (replace x with u to respond)
Puget Sound Oracle Users Group www.psoug.org
Lennart wrote:
DA Morgan wrote:
>The incompetent DBA is not doing backups or not verifying that their
backups can be used to restore and recover. The mediocre DBA is writing
shell scripts to do backup and tested it once. The average DBA is using
RMAN but doesn't really know the tool except to repeat, day after day,
what they did the day before. The proficient DBA, like Sybrand for
example, has knowledge of the underlying built-in packages and the
tables storing metadata in the repository. The expert writes RMAN
scripts, without the aide of websites or books, capable of making
the tool sing and dance.
Seems a bit harsh that anyone not using oracle is at best mediocre ;-)
/Lennart
Written in comp.databases.oracle.server so it is an appropriate analogy.
There is an equally valid analogy for every other technology or field of
endeavour.
--
Daniel A. Morgan
University of Washington da******@x.washington.edu (replace x with u to respond)
Puget Sound Oracle Users Group www.psoug.org
DA Morgan wrote:
[...]
>
Written in comp.databases.oracle.server so it is an appropriate analogy.
and crossposted to comp.databases.theory where the analogy is as
appropriate as the thread itself. No offence. I was just a bit amused
thinking of some people who definitely dont use RMAN, and I dont think
deserves to be called mediocre.
There is an equally valid analogy for every other technology or field of
endeavour.
agreed.
/Lennart
"DA Morgan" <da******@psoug.orgwrote
Written in comp.databases.oracle.server so it
is an appropriate analogy. There is an equally
valid analogy for every other technology or
field of endeavour.
I took your post to have that meaning, but it was cross-posted to
comp.databases.ms-access where the definitions would be somewhat different.
I've known a few people who created Access client applications for Oracle
servers, some of whom I would consider "expert" in Access, who didn't write
RMAN.
Larry Linson
Microsoft Access MVP
Bob Badour <bb*****@pei.sympatico.cawrote:
>He also said the above is a long list of technologies that nobody could
learn. I suspect he is mentally retarded and doesn't realize it yet so
he assumes everybody else is too.
That is a rather harsh comment.
Tony
--
Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP
Please respond only in the newsgroups so that others can
read the entire thread of messages.
Microsoft Access Links, Hints, Tips & Accounting Systems at http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm
Tony's Microsoft Access Blog - http://msmvps.com/blogs/access/
dreamznatcher wrote:
I'm really perplexed here. I never on heaven or earth could have ever
imagined a single word I used could have spawned all this...
"proficient".
Words have meaning and since this isn't a conversation where we can
read facial expressions we are left with nothing but the literal word.
Who really cares, anyway, as long as (as Neil points
out) I (or anyone claiming to be proficient in any particular area)
manages to get a job done?
I do. I do a lot. And I completely disagree.
Someone writing this can get the job done:
BEGIN
FOR r IN (SELECT * FROM parent)
LOOP
r.part_num := r.part_num * 10;
INSERT INTO child
VALUES
(r.part_num, r.part_name);
END LOOP;
COMMIT;
END slow_way;
/
I guarantee you it will get the job done. And I would consider the
person that wrote it mediocre or worse if they didn't write it as an
example of bad code.
We're all developers here, some good, some
bad; but in the end all that matters if we can deliver or not.. and
how (i.e. timeliness, accuracy, quality, interface, stability..). I
guess it's the "how" part here in the argument that's raising all the
hullabaloo.
Again I disagree. What matters after one passes the test for minimal
competency is does it meet the SLA. Is it secure, for example from
SQL Injection, does it minimize disk i/o, does it minimize parses,
does it minimize undo. These are not things done by those who consider
SQLCODE = 0 a success.
Let's be frank and admit that avid developers are more often
perfectionists than not. We have to be on the top of the game, we have
to be top-notch;
I couldn't disagree more. Avid <Competent. And the number of those who
are at the "top of the game," in my experience, does not justify your
enthusiasm.
So adhering to that philosophy, how do you classify proficiency or
expertise? I can't.
What's wrong with accepting the definition of the word as defined in
the dictionary? Have you considered a career in politics? <g>
There are zillions of people alive and kicking who can know everything
by the book and deliver flawless code if given the chance...
Not to be rude here but ... no there are not.
--
Daniel A. Morgan
University of Washington da******@x.washington.edu (replace x with u to respond)
Puget Sound Oracle Users Group www.psoug.org
"dreamznatcher" <ta************@gmail.comwrote in message
news:11**********************@g37g2000prf.googlegr oups.com...
On Jul 2, 1:51 am, "Neil" <nos...@nospam.netwrote:
I'm really perplexed here. I never on heaven or earth could have ever
imagined a single word I used could have spawned all this...
Most of this is due to the rantings of DA Morgan, and to responses to them.
Morgan seems to have proposed a standard of proficiency that involves
addressing an audience of 200 of one's peers, taking questions on the fly,
and using SQL-Plus to express the answers.
There's a simple explanation for this: he's trying to "out alpha" another
regular. If you'll look at the history of his contributions, you'll
understand.
Tony Toews [MVP] wrote:
Bob Badour <bb*****@pei.sympatico.cawrote:
>He also said the above is a long list of technologies that nobody could
learn. I suspect he is mentally retarded and doesn't realize it yet so
he assumes everybody else is too.
That is a rather harsh comment.
Tony
That's ok: It is always a amusing to watch an adult stoop to the level
of elementary school insults in a public forum.
How about it Bob? An opportunity to lecture in the Paul G. Allen
Computing Center on the campus of the University of Washington:
Fall Quarter 2007. How can you ignore such a wonderful opportunity to
prove your competence?
Last chance ... going once ... going twice ... zzzzzzzzzzz
--
Daniel A. Morgan
University of Washington da******@x.washington.edu (replace x with u to respond)
Puget Sound Oracle Users Group www.psoug.org
David Cressey wrote:
"dreamznatcher" <ta************@gmail.comwrote in message
news:11**********************@g37g2000prf.googlegr oups.com...
On Jul 2, 1:51 am, "Neil" <nos...@nospam.netwrote:
>I'm really perplexed here. I never on heaven or earth could have ever
imagined a single word I used could have spawned all this...
Most of this is due to the rantings of DA Morgan, and to responses to them.
Morgan seems to have proposed a standard of proficiency that involves
addressing an audience of 200 of one's peers, taking questions on the fly,
and using SQL-Plus to express the answers.
There's a simple explanation for this: he's trying to "out alpha" another
regular. If you'll look at the history of his contributions, you'll
understand.
Not another regular ... or I'd agree with you and would never have
written what I did.
The word proficiency has a dictionary definition. That is what the word
means. If you wish to redefine it take it up with Daniel Webster not
Daniel Morgan. <g>
Enough of this thead. Last word is yours if you wish it.
--
Daniel A. Morgan
University of Washington da******@x.washington.edu (replace x with u to respond)
Puget Sound Oracle Users Group www.psoug.org
"Bob Badour" <bb*****@pei.sympatico.cawrote in message
news:46**********************@news.aliant.net...
>
inability to comprehend written english
Is that different to English?
"David Cressey" <cr*******@verizon.netwrote in message
news:Qo4ii.2660$Nw5.1367@trndny04...
>
The last word can
be somebody else's.
Blancmange ;-)
Tony Toews [MVP] wrote:
Bob Badour <bb*****@pei.sympatico.cawrote:
>>He also said the above is a long list of technologies that nobody could
learn. I suspect he is mentally retarded and doesn't realize it yet so
he assumes everybody else is too.
That is a rather harsh comment.
Tony
Harsh but accurate.
Keith Wilby wrote:
"Bob Badour" <bb*****@pei.sympatico.cawrote in message
news:46**********************@news.aliant.net...
>inability to comprehend written english
Is that different to English?
English is not a single language. Written english is different from
spoken english. Different parts of the brain process each, and it is
quite possible for an individual to comprehend spoken english who cannot
make any sense of written english whatsoever.
I have no information by which to evaluate Morgan's comprehension of
spoken english so I can only draw conclusions regarding his
comprehension of written english.
"Bob Badour" <bb*****@pei.sympatico.cawrote in message
news:46**********************@news.aliant.net...
Keith Wilby wrote:
>"Bob Badour" <bb*****@pei.sympatico.cawrote in message
news:46**********************@news.aliant.net.. .
>>inability to comprehend written english
Is that different to English?
English is not a single language. Written english is different from spoken
english.
That's as maybe but, as a noun the word "English" is *always* spelt with a
capital "E". One shouldn't throw stones from a glass house.
Keith Wilby wrote:
"Bob Badour" <bb*****@pei.sympatico.cawrote in message
news:46**********************@news.aliant.net...
>Keith Wilby wrote:
>>"Bob Badour" <bb*****@pei.sympatico.cawrote in message
news:46**********************@news.aliant.net. ..
inability to comprehend written english
Is that different to English?
English is not a single language. Written english is different from
spoken english.
That's as maybe but, as a noun the word "English" is *always* spelt with
a capital "E". One shouldn't throw stones from a glass house.
Your assertion is quite obviously false, because it isn't spelled that
way when I spell it.
"Keith Wilby" <he**@there.comwrote in message
news:46********@glkas0286.greenlnk.net...
"Bob Badour" <bb*****@pei.sympatico.cawrote in message
news:46**********************@news.aliant.net...
>Keith Wilby wrote:
>>"Bob Badour" <bb*****@pei.sympatico.cawrote in message
news:46**********************@news.aliant.net. ..
inability to comprehend written english
Is that different to English?
English is not a single language. Written english is different from
spoken english.
That's as maybe but, as a noun the word "English" is *always* spelt with a
capital "E". One shouldn't throw stones from a glass house.
Well, since you advocate not throwing stones from a glass house, I'll just
state that your statement should have been, "Is that different *from*
English." "Is that different *to* English" makes no sense, and is, well,
bad English.
Just keepin' it real, yo.
>>>>inability to comprehend written english
>>>>
Is that different to English?
English is not a single language. Written english is different from
spoken english.
That's as maybe but, as a noun the word "English" is *always* spelt with
a capital "E". One shouldn't throw stones from a glass house.
Well, since you advocate not throwing stones from a glass house, I'll just
state that your statement should have been, "Is that different *from*
English." "Is that different *to* English" makes no sense, and is, well,
bad English.
"Different to" is the British usage and has been since before Shakespeare's
time. If you check _Chambers Dictionary_ (1998), you'll find the following
usage for the word "different": with _from_, also with _to_ and (_esp US_)
_than_. If you check _Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary_ (11th
Edition), a common U.S. dictionary, only "different from" and "different
than" are mentioned in the usage section of the entry for the word
"different."
If you don't have a British dictionary handy, then please see the following
Web page for the entry for _The Columbia Guide to Standard American English_
for the correct usage of the word "different": http://www.bartleby.com/68/37/1837.html
HTH.
Gunny
See http://www.QBuilt.com for all your database needs.
See http://www.Access.QBuilt.com for Microsoft Access tips and tutorials.
Blogs: www.DataDevilDog.BlogSpot.com, www.DatabaseTips.BlogSpot.com http://www.Access.QBuilt.com/html/ex...ributors2.html for contact
info.
On Jul 1, 3:04 pm, DA Morgan <damor...@psoug.orgwrote:
hpuxrac wrote:
You see there's a difference. <g>
No that's not what I meant.
"For 'tis the sport to have the enginer
Hoist with his owne petar"
--
Daniel A. Morgan
University of Washington
damor...@x.washington.edu (replace x with u to respond)
Puget Sound Oracle Users Groupwww.psoug.org
More spam?
"Bob Badour" <bb*****@pei.sympatico.cawrote in message
news:46**********************@news.aliant.net...
What does your dictionary say about capitalizing Cocksucking as the proper
name of a skill?
It says people who use this word in public are always men who wear a
well-padded codpiece to hide their shortcomings.
Gunny
"Different to" is the British usage and has been since before
Shakespeare's time. If you check _Chambers Dictionary_ (1998), you'll
find the following usage for the word "different": with _from_, also with
_to_ and (_esp US_) _than_. If you check _Merriam-Webster's Collegiate
Dictionary_ (11th Edition), a common U.S. dictionary, only "different
from" and "different than" are mentioned in the usage section of the entry
for the word "different."
Two points.
One, we're not living in Shakespeare's day anymore, so get over it.
And two, Brits don't know nothing. If they did, then they wouldn't have lost
their world empire, and wouldn't have needed us to bail them out in WWII.
So, since, if it weren't for us, you'd be speaking German anyway, I suggest
you learn proper American English, and learn how to talk good. That's what I
say!
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