What does a typical Ms Access w/ native jet engine "no splitting" "only for 5
users" usually go for?
Request:
Inventory db w/ 8 user friendly forms & 8 reports.
Nothing fancy, I realize the prices can be scattered, but generally a GOOD
FAITH ESTIMATE what seems to be the normal price for a developer to charge?
--
Message posted via AccessMonster.com http://www.accessmonster.com/Uwe/For...ccess/200606/1 31  1890 
"Anns via AccessMonster.com" <u22580@uwe> wrote in message
news:616ba9236b524@uwe... What does a typical Ms Access w/ native jet engine "no splitting" "only
for 5
users" usually go for?
Request:
Inventory db w/ 8 user friendly forms & 8 reports.
Nothing fancy, I realize the prices can be scattered, but generally a GOOD
FAITH ESTIMATE what seems to be the normal price for a developer to
charge?
It all depends on how complex the storage area is IMO - tables and their
relationships. Care to elaborate? You'd be well-advised to split the app
too, it's no great hardship or overhead.
Regards,
Keith. www.keithwilby.com
Inventory: marketing department which stores and send outs several different
types of flyers and goodies
Forms: several different forms to look up pricing, display of all brochures,
display of all goodies, who it went to, etc seems like it would not be alot,
but we carry several inventory items that we need to track, look up, report
and maybe a code to prevent users from using the short cut key methods in
getting behind the scenes.
The db could be split, but the people who will use the db barely know access
and I think for 5 users who are not very well educated in this program (the
native jet) would really serve it's purpose for this situation?
The reason for the code is b/c they know of the short cut key, but really not
sure what they are looking at once they get behind the scenes.
So the form needs to allow the users to do all things (above), allow the
reports to be accessible to just preview and print, they don't know how to
create new objects, etc.
What are your thoughts and pricing for such a request?
Keith Wilby wrote: What does a typical Ms Access w/ native jet engine "no splitting" "only
for 5
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines] FAITH ESTIMATE what seems to be the normal price for a developer to
charge?
It all depends on how complex the storage area is IMO - tables and their
relationships. Care to elaborate? You'd be well-advised to split the app
too, it's no great hardship or overhead.
Regards,
Keith.
www.keithwilby.com
--
Message posted via AccessMonster.com http://www.accessmonster.com/Uwe/For...ccess/200606/1
For a better start on this, open Access, click File, click New and select
Template On My Computer.
From the Databases tab, select Inventory Control, and create that database
using the wizard. Takes about 1 minutes. Start with that. Compare it to
what you are asking for.
If you are truly trying to size this project, you're going to need much more
detail than you've presented, IMO. In my experience, you can count on a
minimum (bare minimum!!) of 3-4 hours per table, query, form or report, by
the time you've talked to your client, made a first draft, presented to the
client, and made the first round of modifications. And that's for truly
simple, generic things. Some things will take 20 minutes to set up, some
will take 6 hours.
Templates such as described above can be employed to spark discussion and
help the client discover the actual requirements.
The more you talk it out ahead, the less chance you take of designing
yourself into a corner that's difficult to get out of 4 weeks into the
project, when your or the client has that "AHA!" moment and realize what it
will REALLY take to do what you were talking about last week.
"Anns via AccessMonster.com" <u22580@uwe> wrote in message
news:616be4e342d4c@uwe... Inventory: marketing department which stores and send outs several
different
types of flyers and goodies
Forms: several different forms to look up pricing, display of all
brochures,
display of all goodies, who it went to, etc seems like it would not be
alot,
but we carry several inventory items that we need to track, look up,
report
and maybe a code to prevent users from using the short cut key methods in
getting behind the scenes.
Well you could use one form with bespoke filtering methods (combo
boxes/option groups) or you could use the built-in "filter by form" to
return your filtered records.
The db could be split, but the people who will use the db barely know
access
and I think for 5 users who are not very well educated in this program
(the
native jet) would really serve it's purpose for this situation?
You don't need to know anything about Access to use a well-designed
solution. Most developers would advise a split design to minimise the risk
of data corruption. As I say, it's no biggie.
The reason for the code is b/c they know of the short cut key, but really
not
sure what they are looking at once they get behind the scenes.
Users shouldn't be allowed under the bonnet/hood, call it what you will.
The potential to do damage is too great. You can easily disable/enable the
shortcut key.
So the form needs to allow the users to do all things (above), allow the
reports to be accessible to just preview and print, they don't know how to
create new objects, etc.
What are your thoughts and pricing for such a request?
If it's as straightforward as it sounds then I'd hazard a guess at between
the GBP150 - GBP250 marks, but you'd have to specify *exactly* what you
wanted to a developer and agree a design spec before you would get a firm
price. A woolly spec would be trouble for both parties. Once a spec is
hammered out, agreed and a price quoted, any 'extras' would be subject to
further negotiation. Like any other contract, really.
HTH - Keith. www.keithwilby.com
Yea,
The db that shipped with ms access (inventory) is generally what I am looking
for but add our inventory to it, but I am looking for something presentation
wise that is far better than what this can offer.
I have been told the prices for my request (8 forms, 8 reports, 1 or 2 code &
maybe a few queries) for around the price range of $5-1,000.
Does this seem reseasonable?
Rick Wannall wrote: For a better start on this, open Access, click File, click New and select
Template On My Computer.
From the Databases tab, select Inventory Control, and create that database
using the wizard. Takes about 1 minutes. Start with that. Compare it to
what you are asking for.
If you are truly trying to size this project, you're going to need much more
detail than you've presented, IMO. In my experience, you can count on a
minimum (bare minimum!!) of 3-4 hours per table, query, form or report, by
the time you've talked to your client, made a first draft, presented to the
client, and made the first round of modifications. And that's for truly
simple, generic things. Some things will take 20 minutes to set up, some
will take 6 hours.
Templates such as described above can be employed to spark discussion and
help the client discover the actual requirements.
The more you talk it out ahead, the less chance you take of designing
yourself into a corner that's difficult to get out of 4 weeks into the
project, when your or the client has that "AHA!" moment and realize what it
will REALLY take to do what you were talking about last week.
--
Message posted via AccessMonster.com http://www.accessmonster.com/Uwe/For...ccess/200606/1
Anns via AccessMonster.com wrote: The db that shipped with ms access (inventory) is generally what I am looking
for but add our inventory to it, but I am looking for something presentation
wise that is far better than what this can offer.
IMO paying money for "presentation" is unwise. Typically one pays money
for sound design and efficient UI. Also typically, nothing created by
MS provides either of these, but I cannot speak for the Inventory
Template, having never used a Template. A quick glance shows a
Switchboard which is enough for me to send it to the shredder.
Given the need to check and, probably, correct MS's design and meet
special needs of the client I suppose one might get by with $10 000 USD
for this project.
If you pay less you will get a piece of crap in this world or you will
burn in the next for exploiting some bright and capable person.
I can never understand corporations or their management when they want
a program/database which will, essentially, DO their business and also
want to scrimp on cost, or more puzzling give the responsibility to
some hack whose major experience is the development of a couple Excel
Workbooks. What is strangest of all is the business which does no
investigation of "SUPREME and MAJESTIC DATA SOLUTIONS" at all; shortly
after the contract is signed SMDS posts here the most basic or most
non-sensical questions imaginable. It would be funny if it were not so
sad.
What is IMO?
Lyle Fairfield wrote: The db that shipped with ms access (inventory) is generally what I am looking
for but add our inventory to it, but I am looking for something presentation
wise that is far better than what this can offer.
IMO paying money for "presentation" is unwise. Typically one pays money
for sound design and efficient UI. Also typically, nothing created by
MS provides either of these, but I cannot speak for the Inventory
Template, having never used a Template. A quick glance shows a
Switchboard which is enough for me to send it to the shredder.
Given the need to check and, probably, correct MS's design and meet
special needs of the client I suppose one might get by with $10 000 USD
for this project.
If you pay less you will get a piece of crap in this world or you will
burn in the next for exploiting some bright and capable person.
I can never understand corporations or their management when they want
a program/database which will, essentially, DO their business and also
want to scrimp on cost, or more puzzling give the responsibility to
some hack whose major experience is the development of a couple Excel
Workbooks. What is strangest of all is the business which does no
investigation of "SUPREME and MAJESTIC DATA SOLUTIONS" at all; shortly
after the contract is signed SMDS posts here the most basic or most
non-sensical questions imaginable. It would be funny if it were not so
sad.
--
Message posted via http://www.accessmonster.com
On 7-Jun-2006, "Lyle Fairfield" <ly***********@aim.com> wrote: A quick glance shows a
Switchboard which is enough for me to send it to the shredder.
Amen.
I can never understand corporations or their management when they want
a program/database which will, essentially, DO their business and also
want to scrimp on cost, or more puzzling give the responsibility to
some hack whose major experience is the development of a couple Excel
Workbooks. What is strangest of all is the business which does no
investigation of "SUPREME and MAJESTIC DATA SOLUTIONS" at all; shortly
after the contract is signed SMDS posts here the most basic or most
non-sensical questions imaginable. It would be funny if it were not so
sad.
So absolutely completely correct!
IMO=In My Opinion
You will also see IMHO (In MyHumble Opinion), but rarely in this forum,
where honesty forbids such a disingenuous qualifier.
Anns via AccessMonster.com wrote: What is IMO?
Well, you certainly boiled that post down to the essentials.
Anns via AccessMonster.com wrote: What does a typical Ms Access w/ native jet engine "no splitting" "only for 5
users" usually go for?
Request:
Inventory db w/ 8 user friendly forms & 8 reports.
Nothing fancy, I realize the prices can be scattered, but generally a GOOD
FAITH ESTIMATE what seems to be the normal price for a developer to charge?
Post it on Rent-A-Coder and a team from India will do it for $150.
For any project you've got to take into acount that there is always elements
of analysis, design, specification, code writing, testing, packaging,
delivery and implementation.
You are talking a minimum of a day for analysis, design and specification
(assuming it's simple and the people doing the work get it right first
time).
You are talking a minimum of a day for testing, packaging, delivery and
implementation.
You then have to look at how much time will be spent coding; looking at what
you are asking for I would think a minimum of three days assuming the data
structures and the forms and reports are fairly straightforward (this is
probably an underestimate)..
That's a minimum of 5 days work for this. At the prices I charged when I
was doing govies that would be GBP1000 (about USD1800).
If you were to get this done commercially you would be looking at GBP3000+
(about USD5400) for this work.
--
Terry Kreft
"Anns via AccessMonster.com" <u22580@uwe> wrote in message
news:616ba9236b524@uwe... What does a typical Ms Access w/ native jet engine "no splitting" "only
for 5 users" usually go for?
Request:
Inventory db w/ 8 user friendly forms & 8 reports.
Nothing fancy, I realize the prices can be scattered, but generally a GOOD
FAITH ESTIMATE what seems to be the normal price for a developer to
charge?
--
Message posted via AccessMonster.com
http://www.accessmonster.com/Uwe/For...ccess/200606/1
"Terry Kreft" <te*********@mps.co.uk> wrote in
news:8Z********************@karoo.co.uk: For any project you've got to take into acount that there is
always elements of analysis, design, specification, code writing,
testing, packaging, delivery and implementation.
You are talking a minimum of a day for analysis, design and
specification (assuming it's simple and the people doing the work
get it right first time).
You are talking a minimum of a day for testing, packaging,
delivery and implementation.
You then have to look at how much time will be spent coding;
looking at what you are asking for I would think a minimum of
three days assuming the data structures and the forms and reports
are fairly straightforward (this is probably an underestimate)..
That's a minimum of 5 days work for this. At the prices I charged
when I was doing govies that would be GBP1000 (about USD1800).
If you were to get this done commercially you would be looking at
GBP3000+ (about USD5400) for this work.
For an inventory application, I"d call this as *very* low estimate.
Inventory apps have to be rock-solid reliable. They often have to
interface in some way with an accounting system, either on a regular
basis or no a periodic basis. This introduces outside requirements
that can be more complex than the building of the inventory
application itself.
I'd say a $10K budget would be a starter budget, for the development
of a very basic app, and that you'd expect to invest at least that
much again in the first two years of use of the actual app (if not
even more).
--
David W. Fenton http://www.dfenton.com/
usenet at dfenton dot com http://www.dfenton.com/DFA/
Couldn't agree more David, I use the comments I made to scare off the people
who don't understand how much bespoke software costs. If they balk at $5k
they certainly won't like the real estimate.
--
Terry Kreft
"David W. Fenton" <XX*******@dfenton.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:Xn**********************************@127.0.0. 1... "Terry Kreft" <te*********@mps.co.uk> wrote in
news:8Z********************@karoo.co.uk:
For any project you've got to take into acount that there is
always elements of analysis, design, specification, code writing,
testing, packaging, delivery and implementation.
You are talking a minimum of a day for analysis, design and
specification (assuming it's simple and the people doing the work
get it right first time).
You are talking a minimum of a day for testing, packaging,
delivery and implementation.
You then have to look at how much time will be spent coding;
looking at what you are asking for I would think a minimum of
three days assuming the data structures and the forms and reports
are fairly straightforward (this is probably an underestimate)..
That's a minimum of 5 days work for this. At the prices I charged
when I was doing govies that would be GBP1000 (about USD1800).
If you were to get this done commercially you would be looking at
GBP3000+ (about USD5400) for this work.
For an inventory application, I"d call this as *very* low estimate.
Inventory apps have to be rock-solid reliable. They often have to
interface in some way with an accounting system, either on a regular
basis or no a periodic basis. This introduces outside requirements
that can be more complex than the building of the inventory
application itself.
I'd say a $10K budget would be a starter budget, for the development
of a very basic app, and that you'd expect to invest at least that
much again in the first two years of use of the actual app (if not
even more).
--
David W. Fenton http://www.dfenton.com/
usenet at dfenton dot com http://www.dfenton.com/DFA/
Terry,
So would this price be for just a Ms Access (native jet engine - inventory)
or would this cost be for a Ms Access FE on a SQL (server) BE?
I am trying to determine what this will cost me with out a BE server?
ANSWER:
What I have noticed in a couple of years in different companies is that most
people are not that organized and really don't know what they are looking for,
for the most part they have inside employees build them Ms Access Databases
using the Ms Access software already pre-loaded with office and really for
most mid-size departments that is basically all they need..Sure they it could
be split or be/SQL,but I have never heard of any complaints about using just
the native engine other than the person who built it didn't build a form
right or forgot something on the report, etc, etc. but really it works! YOUR
THOUGHTS, am I hearing correct?
ANSWER:
Keep in mind these are pretty big companies, I find that alot of departments
need tracking for certain things and they want simple and cheap.....
The big boys of the development world I find are hired for (i.e. big
manufacturing facilities, oil & gas industry - pipe, etc) b/c a simple db
such as Ms Access w/ just the native engine will not cut the musturd; however
I am told that alot of those big boys use Ms Access and back it up on a SQL
server, MYSQL,etc and it now has more compatibility, etc? YOUR THOUGHTS?
ANSWER:
I am basically learning myself and PM this so I can obtain the tracking
system that fits our needs.
I appreciate any advice or suggestions.
So when a company will build you a MS Access FE & SQL BE, how do they get it
to your establishment?
Do they keep the BE on their servers or the clients (if clients, who
maintains the BE?), how do they get the userface (FE) to the clients computer
(email ZIP file - would this work linked to a BE SERVER)?
ANSWER:
I would love to better understand, any one who can help me answer the above
(ANSWER) questions would be doing me a big favor and I am sure other
reviewers of this board might learn the basics of the development world as
well.
Terry Kreft wrote: For any project you've got to take into acount that there is always elements
of analysis, design, specification, code writing, testing, packaging,
delivery and implementation.
You are talking a minimum of a day for analysis, design and specification
(assuming it's simple and the people doing the work get it right first
time).
You are talking a minimum of a day for testing, packaging, delivery and
implementation.
You then have to look at how much time will be spent coding; looking at what
you are asking for I would think a minimum of three days assuming the data
structures and the forms and reports are fairly straightforward (this is
probably an underestimate)..
That's a minimum of 5 days work for this. At the prices I charged when I
was doing govies that would be GBP1000 (about USD1800).
If you were to get this done commercially you would be looking at GBP3000+
(about USD5400) for this work.
What does a typical Ms Access w/ native jet engine "no splitting" "only for 5
users" usually go for?
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines] Nothing fancy, I realize the prices can be scattered, but generally a GOOD
FAITH ESTIMATE what seems to be the normal price for a developer to charge?
--
Message posted via http://www.accessmonster.com
David W. Fenton wrote: "Terry Kreft" <te*********@mps.co.uk> wrote in
news:8Z********************@karoo.co.uk:
For any project you've got to take into acount that there is
always elements of analysis, design, specification, code writing,
testing, packaging, delivery and implementation.
You are talking a minimum of a day for analysis, design and
specification (assuming it's simple and the people doing the work
get it right first time).
You are talking a minimum of a day for testing, packaging,
delivery and implementation.
You then have to look at how much time will be spent coding;
looking at what you are asking for I would think a minimum of
three days assuming the data structures and the forms and reports
are fairly straightforward (this is probably an underestimate)..
That's a minimum of 5 days work for this. At the prices I charged
when I was doing govies that would be GBP1000 (about USD1800).
If you were to get this done commercially you would be looking at
GBP3000+ (about USD5400) for this work.
For an inventory application, I"d call this as *very* low estimate.
Inventory apps have to be rock-solid reliable. They often have to
interface in some way with an accounting system, either on a regular
basis or no a periodic basis. This introduces outside requirements
that can be more complex than the building of the inventory
application itself.
I'd say a $10K budget would be a starter budget, for the development
of a very basic app, and that you'd expect to invest at least that
much again in the first two years of use of the actual app (if not
even more).
Maybe you start with this http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/te...CT061995421033
Bob
Let's get what appears to be a misunderstnding out the way. When people
talk about a FE/BE setup in here they are normally talking about a FE
consisting of the forms, reports, queries in an Access database and a BE
which consists of the tables also in an Access database. The BE is then
frequently linked to the FE.
The main advantage of this system is that in a properly analysed well
designed db application the database schema should be pretty static. The
forms, reports and queries are much more likely to change than the database
schema but because a FE/BE setup is used it is easy to replace the FE witout
affecting te BE.
The BE can of course be any data source.
Most of your questions are how long is piece of string questions, the answer
to most of them is it depends.
The price I quoted was or a split database as described above, but that was
an absolute minimum. I wouldn't be surprised to see it two or three times
that amount.
You've got to remember that I'm working in the UK where Acces is not as
popular a development tool as it is in the US. I normally come across
Access apps that someone has started but been unable to finish. I then end
up redeveloping the system. Most of the work I o nowadays is VB/SQL.
Using Access as the front end to SQL server is a very good choice.
--
Terry Kreft
"Anns via AccessMonster.com" <u22580@uwe> wrote in message
news:6177bf6d1adc3@uwe... Terry,
So would this price be for just a Ms Access (native jet engine -
inventory) or would this cost be for a Ms Access FE on a SQL (server) BE?
I am trying to determine what this will cost me with out a BE server?
ANSWER:
What I have noticed in a couple of years in different companies is that
most people are not that organized and really don't know what they are looking
for, for the most part they have inside employees build them Ms Access
Databases using the Ms Access software already pre-loaded with office and really for
most mid-size departments that is basically all they need..Sure they it
could be split or be/SQL,but I have never heard of any complaints about using
just the native engine other than the person who built it didn't build a form
right or forgot something on the report, etc, etc. but really it works!
YOUR THOUGHTS, am I hearing correct?
ANSWER:
Keep in mind these are pretty big companies, I find that alot of
departments need tracking for certain things and they want simple and cheap.....
The big boys of the development world I find are hired for (i.e. big
manufacturing facilities, oil & gas industry - pipe, etc) b/c a simple db
such as Ms Access w/ just the native engine will not cut the musturd;
however I am told that alot of those big boys use Ms Access and back it up on a
SQL server, MYSQL,etc and it now has more compatibility, etc? YOUR THOUGHTS?
ANSWER:
I am basically learning myself and PM this so I can obtain the tracking
system that fits our needs.
I appreciate any advice or suggestions.
So when a company will build you a MS Access FE & SQL BE, how do they get
it to your establishment?
Do they keep the BE on their servers or the clients (if clients, who
maintains the BE?), how do they get the userface (FE) to the clients
computer (email ZIP file - would this work linked to a BE SERVER)?
ANSWER:
I would love to better understand, any one who can help me answer the
above (ANSWER) questions would be doing me a big favor and I am sure other
reviewers of this board might learn the basics of the development world as
well.
Terry Kreft wrote:For any project you've got to take into acount that there is always
elementsof analysis, design, specification, code writing, testing, packaging,
delivery and implementation.
You are talking a minimum of a day for analysis, design and specification
(assuming it's simple and the people doing the work get it right first
time).
You are talking a minimum of a day for testing, packaging, delivery and
implementation.
You then have to look at how much time will be spent coding; looking at
whatyou are asking for I would think a minimum of three days assuming the
datastructures and the forms and reports are fairly straightforward (this is
probably an underestimate)..
That's a minimum of 5 days work for this. At the prices I charged when I
was doing govies that would be GBP1000 (about USD1800).
If you were to get this done commercially you would be looking at
GBP3000+(about USD5400) for this work.
What does a typical Ms Access w/ native jet engine "no splitting" "only
for 5 users" usually go for?[quoted text clipped - 4 lines] Nothing fancy, I realize the prices can be scattered, but generally a
GOOD FAITH ESTIMATE what seems to be the normal price for a developer to
charge?
--
Message posted via http://www.accessmonster.com
Great, yep I understand the FE/BE thing, that is clear to me.
I guess my last question to you or any one would be:
If a client was to purchase a Ms Access Database FE (User Face, Forms,
Reports, etc) and a BE on (let's say) SQL Server, how would that developer
get that whole application to the client?
ANSWER:
Example: Would that BE/SQL be on there SQL Server (they consistanly maintain -
via extra money contract) or would that BE/SQL reside on the client?
ANSWER:
If it was to reside on the client side, who would maintain the BE/SQL? Who
would update the front end (ms access) on each desktop.
ANSWER:
Would it be possible to deploy a MS ACCESS FE/BE - SQL Server via zip email?
Silly question, but I am trying to understand how this scenerio above would
work?
I realize the USA must be different, but there has to be common denominators
to this process (MS Access FE & SQL BE).........
Terry Kreft wrote: Let's get what appears to be a misunderstnding out the way. When people
talk about a FE/BE setup in here they are normally talking about a FE
consisting of the forms, reports, queries in an Access database and a BE
which consists of the tables also in an Access database. The BE is then
frequently linked to the FE.
The main advantage of this system is that in a properly analysed well
designed db application the database schema should be pretty static. The
forms, reports and queries are much more likely to change than the database
schema but because a FE/BE setup is used it is easy to replace the FE witout
affecting te BE.
The BE can of course be any data source.
Most of your questions are how long is piece of string questions, the answer
to most of them is it depends.
The price I quoted was or a split database as described above, but that was
an absolute minimum. I wouldn't be surprised to see it two or three times
that amount.
You've got to remember that I'm working in the UK where Acces is not as
popular a development tool as it is in the US. I normally come across
Access apps that someone has started but been unable to finish. I then end
up redeveloping the system. Most of the work I o nowadays is VB/SQL.
Using Access as the front end to SQL server is a very good choice.
Terry,
[quoted text clipped - 69 lines] >> Nothing fancy, I realize the prices can be scattered, but generally a GOOD
>> FAITH ESTIMATE what seems to be the normal price for a developer to charge?
--
Message posted via http://www.accessmonster.com
"Lyle Fairfield" <ly***********@aim.com> wrote If you pay less you will get a piece of
crap in this world or you will burn in
the next for exploiting some bright and
capable person.
Lyle, for people who disagree so often, we surely do agree on a multitude of
issues.
Just for the record you fall into the category of PWOIV (= People Whose
Opnions I Value).
Larry
"Rick Wannall" wrote IMO=In My Opinion
You will also see IMHO (In MyHumble
Opinion), but rarely in this forum, where
honesty forbids such a disingenuous qualifier.
More often, here, you will see the perfectly honest IMNSHO.
"In My Not-So-Humble Opinion"
Larry
Larry Linson wrote: "Lyle Fairfield" <ly***********@aim.com> wrote
> If you pay less you will get a piece of
> crap in this world or you will burn in
> the next for exploiting some bright and
> capable person.
Lyle, for people who disagree so often, we surely do agree on a multitude of
issues.
Just for the record you fall into the category of PWOIV (= People Whose
Opnions I Value).
Larry
Better check out the big foot in the mouth move I made by mistaking
Lauren Quantrell for Lauren Wilson before you sign off on that Larry!
"Anns via AccessMonster.com" wrote If a client was to purchase a Ms Access
Database FE (User Face, Forms, Reports,
etc) and a BE on (let's say) SQL Server,
how would that developer get that whole
application to the client?
ANSWER:
It would be possible to transfer the application via either e-mail or FTP,
provided the client had a server database and a database administrator. Many
of us, however, only work in our own local area, so we work closely with
client personnel from inception through installation. Just because I am not
a "glutton for punishment," I would never, neither locally nor remotely,
offer an Access FE / Server BE to a client who did not already have the
server set up, or did not have a rational plan for setting it up and
obtaining a competent DBA.
Example: Would that BE/SQL be on there
SQL Server (they consistanly maintain -
via extra money contract) or would that
BE/SQL reside on the client?
ANSWER:
The client application (Access) and server (SQL Server or other) need to
reside on the same LAN, or at least WAN. One alternative would be to set up
a hosted server, and use Microsoft Terminal server over a Virtual Private
Network. Even with MTS, I'd prefer a LAN, 2nd choice a WAN, far 3rd choice
VPN over Internet. See earlier answer.
If it was to reside on the client side,
who would maintain the BE/SQL?
ANSWER:
The client's DBA would apply the maintenance and changes, or perhaps
implement them after discussion with the Developer. That could be either
local or remote, or the Developer could contract to be the client's DBA,
though I know of few who work that way.
Who would update the front end (ms access) on each desktop.
ANSWER:
It is trivially easy to handle updating the FE. I have an article at
http://accdevel.tripod.com about a very simple approach to "versioning" and
MVP Tony Toews has a free Auto FE Updater that you can download from his
site, http://www.grantie.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm.
Would it be possible to deploy a MS
ACCESS FE/BE - SQL Server via zip email?
Silly question, but I am trying to understand
how this scenerio above would work?
Do you mean, could the Developer be located remotely from the client, and
communication be via e-mail, with ZIPped files attached when necessary, or
files transferred via FTP, perhaps with a few telephone calls? If so, yes,
that is done frequently. I have local clients with whom I work _mostly_ in
that mode, but, believe me, there are times when it is most expeditious to
meet face-to-face.
I realize the USA must be different,
but there has to be common denominators
to this process (MS Access FE & SQL BE).........
There are those who will tell you that for _any_ serious business database,
you need to use a server (and they will have a favorite one), though they
may grudgingly admit that Access could be the front end. I have never known
anyone who took such a position to be someone who was competent with Access.
I have always known them to be trying to sell a more-expensive solution.
Those who are competent in Access _and_ client-server would delve into your
needs, and discuss with you the pros and cons of using Access-Jet
(multiuser) versus client-server in your own situation. It is unlikely that
we could have a sufficiently-detailed discussion in newsgroup articles to
arrive at a concensus for you.
I have worked on client-server database applications targeted for user
audiences of as few as 25. Perfectly acceptable response could have been had
with an Access-Jet multiuser implementation, but they had a strong need for
recoverability and reliability that could be obtained, simply, with a server
database.
Larry Linson
Microsoft Access MVP
"Lyle Fairfield" <ly***********@aim.com> wrote Better check out the big foot in the mouth move I made by mistaking
Lauren Quantrell for Lauren Wilson before you sign off on that Larry!
Lots of us have tasted our own foot from time to time, Lyle. After you do it
a certain quota of times, it's like making a fool of yourself in public --
it just no longer holds any terror for you. (It's my stock answer for people
who ask how I can be so calm up in front of the user group.)
Likely, though, _you_ have some number yet to go for reaching your quota.
I've long since passed my quota for both the foot-in-mouth and
making-a-fool-of-myself-in-public categories.
Maybe Lauren will cut you some slack for "Senior Moments." <GRIN>
Larry Linson
* Just for the record, any invention I may have made of a
unique combination of words in this post, or other posts
in this thread, or other posts in this newsgroup, is NOT
copyrighted, unless so noted.
"Larry Linson" <bo*****@localhost.not> wrote in
news:wjJig.10638$Bj6.7779@trnddc08: "Lyle Fairfield" <ly***********@aim.com> wrote
Better check out the big foot in the mouth move I made by
mistaking Lauren Quantrell for Lauren Wilson before you sign off
on that Larry!
Lots of us have tasted our own foot from time to time, Lyle. After
you do it a certain quota of times, it's like making a fool of
yourself in public -- it just no longer holds any terror for you.
(It's my stock answer for people who ask how I can be so calm up
in front of the user group.)
Likely, though, _you_ have some number yet to go for reaching your
quota.
I've long since passed my quota for both the foot-in-mouth and
making-a-fool-of-myself-in-public categories.
Maybe Lauren will cut you some slack for "Senior Moments." <GRIN>
Larry Linson
* Just for the record, any invention I may have made of a
unique combination of words in this post, or other posts
in this thread, or other posts in this newsgroup, is NOT
copyrighted, unless so noted.
Sure it is. The way copyright works since the Berne Convention of
1978 is that everything in a fixed form is copyrighted by default.
The only way it cannot be copyrighted is if you explicitly declare
that what you've written is public domain and can be used by anyone.
Saying it's "not copyrighted" is not the same thing.
--
David W. Fenton http://www.dfenton.com/
usenet at dfenton dot com http://www.dfenton.com/DFA/
"David W. Fenton" wrote * Just for the record, any invention I may have made of a
unique combination of words in this post, or other posts
in this thread, or other posts in this newsgroup, is NOT
copyrighted, unless so noted.
Sure it is. The way copyright works since the Berne Convention of
1978 is that everything in a fixed form is copyrighted by default.
The only way it cannot be copyrighted is if you explicitly declare
that what you've written is public domain and can be used by anyone.
Saying it's "not copyrighted" is not the same thing.
Perhaps, then, I had best retreive all my posts from years past, make the
requisite copies, and file for copyright so no one else can steal them
without fear of retribution.
IIRC, it is not legal to appropriate as one's own work and copyright public
domain material, but it is difficult to defend against that. It is much
easier to defend a copyrighted work.
In any case, the onerous Digital Millenium Copyright Act and the
currently-in-process addition making it more onerous have changed copyright
law considerably. Now, if I could only figure a way to put a r**tkit into a
text posting, I could be as villified as S*ny.
Larry
"Larry Linson" <bo*****@localhost.not> wrote in
news:Bu4jg.3654$WM4.925@trnddc01:
"David W. Fenton" wrote
* Just for the record, any invention I may have made of a
unique combination of words in this post, or other posts
in this thread, or other posts in this newsgroup, is NOT
copyrighted, unless so noted.
Sure it is. The way copyright works since the Berne Convention
of 1978 is that everything in a fixed form is copyrighted by
default. The only way it cannot be copyrighted is if you
explicitly declare that what you've written is public domain and
can be used by anyone. Saying it's "not copyrighted" is not the
same thing.
Perhaps, then, I had best retreive all my posts from years past,
make the requisite copies, and file for copyright so no one else
can steal them without fear of retribution.
No, you need do nothing at all. They are copyrighted by being posted
in a fixed form.
IIRC, it is not legal to appropriate as one's own work and
copyright public domain material, but it is difficult to defend
against that. It is much easier to defend a copyrighted work.
All of your posts are copyrighted.
In any case, the onerous Digital Millenium Copyright Act and the
currently-in-process addition making it more onerous have changed
copyright law considerably. Now, if I could only figure a way to
put a r**tkit into a text posting, I could be as villified as
S*ny.
You've lost me by this point.
--
David W. Fenton http://www.dfenton.com/
usenet at dfenton dot com http://www.dfenton.com/DFA/
"David W. Fenton" wrote No, you need do nothing at all. They are copy-
righted by being posted in a fixed form.
I believe "reduced to tangible form" is the legal term. IIRC, it is not legal to appropriate as one's
own work and copyright public domain
material, but it is difficult to defend
against that. It is much easier to defend a
copyrighted work.
All of your posts are copyrighted.
All my posts would not be copyrighted were I to declare them to be in the
public domain. The owner of a copyright that has been registered with the
Copyright Office has a better chance of prevailing and can qualify for
larger damages than the owner of an implied copyright. In any case, the onerous Digital Millenium
Copyright Act and the currently-in-process
addition making it more onerous have changed
copyright law considerably. Now, if I could
only figure a way to put a r**tkit into a text
posting, I could be as villified as S*ny.
You've lost me by this point.
Acting under authority they thought had been granted by the Digital
Millenium Copyright Act (which does appear to give owners of intellectual
property to install software on your machine to protect it), Sony installed
a "thing" called a "rootkit" on the user's machine when certain Sony music
CDs were played. A "rootkit" is a virulent piece of software installed deep
in the bowels of your system, invisible to normal virus-checking software,
which, once installed, can somehow be a gateway not only to malware from the
creator of that rootkit, but other malware authors. When that was
discovered, there was a groundswell of resentment against Sony, who soon
recalled all the CDs that installed rootkits.
There is currently an extension to the Digital Millenium Copyright Act in
the legislative process in the US Congress. I think it is probably a waste
of my time to write my Senators urging them to oppose it, because I wrote
them opposing the original DMCA and they voted for it anyway. Maybe I'll
write my Representative.
Larry
"Larry Linson" <bo*****@localhost.not> wrote in
news:6brjg.5680$hN2.605@trnddc05: "David W. Fenton" wrote
No, you need do nothing at all. They are copy-
righted by being posted in a fixed form.
I believe "reduced to tangible form" is the legal term.
"Fixed in tangible form" seems to be the term of art, which is half
of yours, half of mine.
IIRC, it is not legal to appropriate as one's
own work and copyright public domain
material, but it is difficult to defend
against that. It is much easier to defend a
copyrighted work.
All of your posts are copyrighted.
All my posts would not be copyrighted were I to declare them to be
in the public domain. . . .
But you haven't done that, so they are copyrighted, by default.
. . . The owner of a copyright that has been registered with the
Copyright Office has a better chance of prevailing and can qualify
for larger damages than the owner of an implied copyright.
Yes, but an unregistered work is no less copyrighted than the
registered work.
In any case, the onerous Digital Millenium
Copyright Act and the currently-in-process
addition making it more onerous have changed
copyright law considerably. Now, if I could
only figure a way to put a r**tkit into a text
posting, I could be as villified as S*ny.
You've lost me by this point.
Acting under authority they thought had been granted by the
Digital Millenium Copyright Act (which does appear to give owners
of intellectual property to install software on your machine to
protect it), Sony installed a "thing" called a "rootkit" on the
user's machine when certain Sony music CDs were played. A
"rootkit" is a virulent piece of software installed deep in the
bowels of your system, invisible to normal virus-checking
software, which, once installed, can somehow be a gateway not only
to malware from the creator of that rootkit, but other malware
authors. When that was discovered, there was a groundswell of
resentment against Sony, who soon recalled all the CDs that
installed rootkits.
Yes, I know all about the Sony/BMG rootkit. Indeed, I removed it
from a client's PC a couple of weeks ago.
I just don't understand your point in going off on a DMCA rant.
There is currently an extension to the Digital Millenium Copyright
Act in the legislative process in the US Congress. I think it is
probably a waste of my time to write my Senators urging them to
oppose it, because I wrote them opposing the original DMCA and
they voted for it anyway. Maybe I'll write my Representative.
I think you should write both Senators and your Rep. Conditions may
change greatly in the Congress by the time the bill actually comes
up for a vote.
If we're lucky.
--
David W. Fenton http://www.dfenton.com/
usenet at dfenton dot com http://www.dfenton.com/DFA/
"David W. Fenton" wrote . . . The owner of a copyright that has
been registered with the Copyright Office
has a better chance of prevailing and can
qualify for larger damages than the owner
of an implied copyright.
Yes, but an unregistered work is no less
copyrighted than the registered work.
Ah, but the registered copyrights are "more equal" than the unregistered
ones when it comes to _doing something_ about plagiarism. (That, I think, is
"fair use" of the wording from _Animal Farm_, isn't it? <GRIN>)
I just don't understand your point in
going off on a DMCA rant.
Whenever I think about the DMCA, I go into "auto-rant" mode, I fear. Perhaps
all will accept my apology for doing so here.
Larry
"Larry Linson" <bo*****@localhost.not> wrote in
news:1WHjg.12231$OL2.11212@trnddc06: "David W. Fenton" wrote
. . . The owner of a copyright that has
been registered with the Copyright Office
has a better chance of prevailing and can
qualify for larger damages than the owner
of an implied copyright.
Yes, but an unregistered work is no less
copyrighted than the registered work.
Ah, but the registered copyrights are "more equal" than the
unregistered ones when it comes to _doing something_ about
plagiarism. (That, I think, is "fair use" of the wording from
_Animal Farm_, isn't it? <GRIN>)
Plagiarism is not a copyright issue. There is nothing about it in
copyright law. Plagiarism is an ethical issue.
As to "more equal," the registration has no bearing on the work's
copyright status. The question of registration only bears on damages
if a copyright violation is found, and that can be found whether or
not the work is registered or not.
Thus, registration has *zilch* to do with the subject of copyright.
It's only legally relevant after copyright has been infringed. I just don't understand your point in
going off on a DMCA rant.
Whenever I think about the DMCA, I go into "auto-rant" mode, I
fear. Perhaps all will accept my apology for doing so here.
I understand why it would trigger ranting and raving. It really is
an example of the worst kind of bad lawmaking.
--
David W. Fenton http://www.dfenton.com/
usenet at dfenton dot com http://www.dfenton.com/DFA/
Larry,
I would like to thank you.
You took a few seconds from your time to really help explain what I know so
many newbies inquire about.
You make great sense and I thank you for your thoughts.
Larry Linson wrote: If a client was to purchase a Ms Access
Database FE (User Face, Forms, Reports,
etc) and a BE on (let's say) SQL Server,
how would that developer get that whole
application to the client?
ANSWER:
It would be possible to transfer the application via either e-mail or FTP,
provided the client had a server database and a database administrator. Many
of us, however, only work in our own local area, so we work closely with
client personnel from inception through installation. Just because I am not
a "glutton for punishment," I would never, neither locally nor remotely,
offer an Access FE / Server BE to a client who did not already have the
server set up, or did not have a rational plan for setting it up and
obtaining a competent DBA.
Example: Would that BE/SQL be on there
SQL Server (they consistanly maintain -
via extra money contract) or would that
BE/SQL reside on the client?
ANSWER:
The client application (Access) and server (SQL Server or other) need to
reside on the same LAN, or at least WAN. One alternative would be to set up
a hosted server, and use Microsoft Terminal server over a Virtual Private
Network. Even with MTS, I'd prefer a LAN, 2nd choice a WAN, far 3rd choice
VPN over Internet. See earlier answer.
If it was to reside on the client side,
who would maintain the BE/SQL?
ANSWER:
The client's DBA would apply the maintenance and changes, or perhaps
implement them after discussion with the Developer. That could be either
local or remote, or the Developer could contract to be the client's DBA,
though I know of few who work that way.
Who would update the front end (ms access) on each desktop.
ANSWER:
It is trivially easy to handle updating the FE. I have an article at
http://accdevel.tripod.com about a very simple approach to "versioning" and
MVP Tony Toews has a free Auto FE Updater that you can download from his
site, http://www.grantie.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm.
Would it be possible to deploy a MS
ACCESS FE/BE - SQL Server via zip email?
Silly question, but I am trying to understand
how this scenerio above would work?
Do you mean, could the Developer be located remotely from the client, and
communication be via e-mail, with ZIPped files attached when necessary, or
files transferred via FTP, perhaps with a few telephone calls? If so, yes,
that is done frequently. I have local clients with whom I work _mostly_ in
that mode, but, believe me, there are times when it is most expeditious to
meet face-to-face.
I realize the USA must be different,
but there has to be common denominators
to this process (MS Access FE & SQL BE).........
There are those who will tell you that for _any_ serious business database,
you need to use a server (and they will have a favorite one), though they
may grudgingly admit that Access could be the front end. I have never known
anyone who took such a position to be someone who was competent with Access.
I have always known them to be trying to sell a more-expensive solution.
Those who are competent in Access _and_ client-server would delve into your
needs, and discuss with you the pros and cons of using Access-Jet
(multiuser) versus client-server in your own situation. It is unlikely that
we could have a sufficiently-detailed discussion in newsgroup articles to
arrive at a concensus for you.
I have worked on client-server database applications targeted for user
audiences of as few as 25. Perfectly acceptable response could have been had
with an Access-Jet multiuser implementation, but they had a strong need for
recoverability and reliability that could be obtained, simply, with a server
database.
Larry Linson
Microsoft Access MVP
--
Message posted via AccessMonster.com http://www.accessmonster.com/Uwe/For...ccess/200606/1 This thread has been closed and replies have been disabled. Please start a new discussion. Similar topics | |
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