Adding to database skillset

[tjmoses]

I've been lurking on this board for about 4 years now, getting great
answers and solutions to many, many Access and VBA questions that I've
had over the years. I was hoping that you all could pass along some
advice.

I consider myself a intermediate access developer, and I am looking to
continue to learn and challenge myself.

During my current job search, it seems like Access jobs in my area are
pretty rare. While I know that Access is still a frequently used
solution, is the marketplace/industry moving towards other programs?
SQL Server? Oracle?

Can you recommend job search web sites that may have good MS Access
opportunities?

Thank you.

[ManningFan]

Access programmers are a dime a dozen, which is why it's so hard to
find jobs. Even places like Dice.com that specialize in tech jobs
don't have alot of pure Access gigs to offer. It's like looking for an
Excel job, because so many people are learning enough Access to do
their tasks. Most admins know Access to some degree, even.

Access is good for little stuff, but many larger-sized organizations
use SQL Server backends because of its ability to handle datasets with
literally hundreds of millions of records (at my job a table with
300,000,000 records is pretty common). You can probably score some
contracting jobs doing Access, but full-time permanent gigs aren't easy
to find.

tj*****@adelphi a.net wrote:

I've been lurking on this board for about 4 years now, getting great
answers and solutions to many, many Access and VBA questions that I've
had over the years. I was hoping that you all could pass along some
advice.

I consider myself a intermediate access developer, and I am looking to
continue to learn and challenge myself.

During my current job search, it seems like Access jobs in my area are
pretty rare. While I know that Access is still a frequently used
solution, is the marketplace/industry moving towards other programs?
SQL Server? Oracle?

Can you recommend job search web sites that may have good MS Access
opportunities?

Thank you.

[tjmoses]

ManningFan wrote:

Access programmers are a dime a dozen, which is why it's so hard to
find jobs. Even places like Dice.com that specialize in tech jobs
don't have alot of pure Access gigs to offer. It's like looking for an
Excel job, because so many people are learning enough Access to do
their tasks. Most admins know Access to some degree, even.

Access is good for little stuff, but many larger-sized organizations
use SQL Server backends because of its ability to handle datasets with
literally hundreds of millions of records (at my job a table with
300,000,000 records is pretty common). You can probably score some
contracting jobs doing Access, but full-time permanent gigs aren't easy
to find.

tj*****@adelphi a.net wrote:

I've been lurking on this board for about 4 years now, getting great
answers and solutions to many, many Access and VBA questions that I've
had over the years. I was hoping that you all could pass along some
advice.

I consider myself a intermediate access developer, and I am looking to
continue to learn and challenge myself.

During my current job search, it seems like Access jobs in my area are
pretty rare. While I know that Access is still a frequently used
solution, is the marketplace/industry moving towards other programs?
SQL Server? Oracle?

Can you recommend job search web sites that may have good MS Access
opportunities?

Thank you.

Do entry level SQL Server jobs exist, or this another skill that you
might pick up along the way while doing another job?

[ManningFan]

The problem is, so many people went into tech jobs when the Internet
first exploded, and then when the bubble burst there were a ton of guys
with degrees from MIT and other top schools who had no jobs to go to.
Employers have the luxury of being very picky because they know there
are people out there who are begging for tech jobs. The only hope is
that you find a company who has a low budget and who is willing to let
someone learn on the job, but those are few and far between.

tjmo...@adelphi a.net wrote:

Do entry level SQL Server jobs exist, or this another skill that you
might pick up along the way while doing another job?

[Larry Linson]

<tj*****@adelph ia.netwrote

Do entry level SQL Server jobs exist,
or this another skill that you might
pick up along the way while doing
another job?

I am not a "great believer" in "certificat ion" being a valid indicator of
being well-qualified in particular areas (it does tend to be a valid
indicator of being at least _minimally qualified_ in the area certified).

Microsoft Certification in Microsoft products (e.g., MS SQL Server) can,
however, sometimes open doors to jobs that might otherwise remain closed.

Access not only is good for little stuff as ManningFan states, but makes
excellent client applications for server DB backends -- even those with
enormous numbers of records. Thus, it won't hurt your chances at all that
you are at least intermediate level in Access. In fact, SQL Server may be a
good approach to getting into Access development "by the back door," rather
than vice-versa.

Larry Linson
Microsoft Access MVP

[tjmoses]

Larry Linson wrote:

<tj*****@adelph ia.netwrote

Do entry level SQL Server jobs exist,
or this another skill that you might
pick up along the way while doing
another job?

I am not a "great believer" in "certificat ion" being a valid indicator of
being well-qualified in particular areas (it does tend to be a valid
indicator of being at least _minimally qualified_ in the area certified).

Microsoft Certification in Microsoft products (e.g., MS SQL Server) can,
however, sometimes open doors to jobs that might otherwise remain closed.

Access not only is good for little stuff as ManningFan states, but makes
excellent client applications for server DB backends -- even those with
enormous numbers of records. Thus, it won't hurt your chances at all that
you are at least intermediate level in Access. In fact, SQL Server may be a
good approach to getting into Access development "by the back door," rather
than vice-versa.

Larry Linson
Microsoft Access MVP

I actually completed a Access Certification from Learning Tree, and
have been working with Access for about 6 years now. The amount of
Access development work (other than basic queries) in my current job
has completely gone away. So ultimately I was trying to gauge if this
is still a marketable skill, & what are the next systems I should try
to learn.

Thank you for your help.

[Lyle Fairfield]

I actually completed a Access Certification from Learning Tree, and

have been working with Access for about 6 years now. The amount of
Access development work (other than basic queries) in my current job
has completely gone away. So ultimately I was trying to gauge if this
is still a marketable skill, & what are the next systems I should try
to learn.

I wouldn't stake my future bread and butter on Access.
IMO, to a greater extent than ever, MS is projecting and casting Access
as the Database for the millions, that is that anyone can whip some grand
Access DB together in an hour; their Promotional Material and their
description of Wizards may encourage this belief.

So, if MS suggests that a clerical worker should be able to create and
manage the firm's Access DB, why would the firm pay a professional to do
so?

Of course, Microsoft is wrong. IMO (again) more than fifty per cent of
the seekers of help here have created something so convoluted and ugly
that there is no solution. More patient regulars try to help; I respect
and admire their humility and optimism while I suppress my instinct to
answer, "Where did I go wrong?" with "You turned on the computer."

Nothing astounds me more than the post, "My company has decided to build
a mission critical database to model our entire operation. There will be
about 250 users at three sites. I have a community college certificate in
business management and I've created several Excel spreadsheets over the
past couple of years. The secretaries we really excited when I programmed
a UDF that gave n / 0 to equal 0. So the owner-president gave me the job
of building and implementing the db. Now, are relationships and primary
keys necessary? Could we keep all the information in one big table of 200
fields? If so, should it be indexed?"
I think this is not much of an exaggeration. So where is the job for an
Access developer here? To fix it up? Well if you are a masochist this
might be OK!

I don't believe everyone can create and manage a database. I think MS
does. Who will business people believe? Of course!

If I really loved DataBasing I'd try something like Oracle or Paris
Hilton, which may be thought of as exotic and demanding; If I didn't I'd
study for my Real Estate Agent's papers.

--
Lyle Fairfield

[Larry Linson]

An Access certification from anyone but Microsoft would be, IMNSHO, not
worth much and Microsoft has not offered an Access developer certification
in the last several years. An Access certification, regardless of its
source, is not going to be much help in getting a job these days. As has
already been said, there are few jobs that are "pure Access" as there were
back in the mid-1990s.

I apologize that I was not clear -- I was talking about a certification from
the server DB vendor for whatever server DB looks promising to you.
Probably the most widely-used commercial server DB is Microsoft SQL Server,
but Sybase, IBM, Oracle, and others are popular. The more popular the DB,
the more jobs there will be, but the more competition there will be for the
jobs, too. If you'd like to use your Access, however, the Microsoft SQL
Server certification would likely provide a better opportunity.

Lyle has astutely observed that Microsoft is trying to cast Access as a
"database for the masses," which will further demean the standing of Access
developers in the workplace. He is also correct that "fixing" some
databases is a frustrating waste of time; I have turned down jobs after
determining what the client already had and that the clients were not
willing to start over. I hope that I did it politely, but better
not-so-polite than to wade into the quagmire and then be blamed for the "pig
not being beautiful despite my trying to apply lipstick to it."

NOTE: If you haven't been "initiated" to this sort of situation, it's often
proposed as "The database is 90% done, just needs to be finished and a few
reports added -- shouldn't take you over a couple of weeks." (And they'd
often like you to commit to a time deadline or a fixed price, by the way.)

Careful questioning often reveals that the requirements (what the DB should
do) were never documented, so any "percent complete" is totally wishful
thinking as no one has the remotest idea what "100% complete" would be, and
that it is almost impossible to determine what has been completed and is
working (if anything) even if you did know what it was supposed to do.

Whenever I am approached about such a situation, I find that I "have other
commitments that prevent my taking on any additional work just now" and
"don't know anyone who I'd recommend for the job." You can translate the
last statement, more accurately, "I don't know anyone _to_ whom I'd
recommend your project." <GRIN>

Larry Linson
Microsoft Access MVP


<tj*****@adelph ia.netwrote in message
news:11******** **************@ s13g2000cwa.goo glegroups.com.. .

>
Larry Linson wrote:

><tj*****@adelp hia.netwrote

> Do entry level SQL Server jobs exist,
or this another skill that you might
pick up along the way while doing
another job?

I am not a "great believer" in "certificat ion" being a valid indicator of
being well-qualified in particular areas (it does tend to be a valid
indicator of being at least _minimally qualified_ in the area certified).

Microsoft Certification in Microsoft products (e.g., MS SQL Server) can,
however, sometimes open doors to jobs that might otherwise remain closed.

Access not only is good for little stuff as ManningFan states, but makes
excellent client applications for server DB backends -- even those with
enormous numbers of records. Thus, it won't hurt your chances at all that
you are at least intermediate level in Access. In fact, SQL Server may
be a
good approach to getting into Access development "by the back door,"
rather
than vice-versa.

Larry Linson
Microsoft Access MVP

I actually completed a Access Certification from Learning Tree, and
have been working with Access for about 6 years now. The amount of
Access development work (other than basic queries) in my current job
has completely gone away. So ultimately I was trying to gauge if this
is still a marketable skill, & what are the next systems I should try
to learn.

Thank you for your help.

[CDMAPoster]

Lyle Fairfield wrote:

I actually completed a Access Certification from Learning Tree, and
have been working with Access for about 6 years now. The amount of
Access development work (other than basic queries) in my current job
has completely gone away. So ultimately I was trying to gauge if this
is still a marketable skill, & what are the next systems I should try
to learn.

I wouldn't stake my future bread and butter on Access.
IMO, to a greater extent than ever, MS is projecting and casting Access
as the Database for the millions, that is that anyone can whip some grand
Access DB together in an hour; their Promotional Material and their
description of Wizards may encourage this belief.

So, if MS suggests that a clerical worker should be able to create and
manage the firm's Access DB, why would the firm pay a professional to do
so?

Of course, Microsoft is wrong. IMO (again) more than fifty per cent of
the seekers of help here have created something so convoluted and ugly
that there is no solution. More patient regulars try to help; I respect
and admire their humility and optimism while I suppress my instinct to
answer, "Where did I go wrong?" with "You turned on the computer."

Nothing astounds me more than the post, "My company has decided to build
a mission critical database to model our entire operation. There will be
about 250 users at three sites. I have a community college certificate in
business management and I've created several Excel spreadsheets over the
past couple of years. The secretaries we really excited when I programmed
a UDF that gave n / 0 to equal 0. So the owner-president gave me the job
of building and implementing the db. Now, are relationships and primary
keys necessary? Could we keep all the information in one big table of 200
fields? If so, should it be indexed?"
I think this is not much of an exaggeration. So where is the job for an
Access developer here? To fix it up? Well if you are a masochist this
might be OK!

I don't believe everyone can create and manage a database. I think MS
does. Who will business people believe? Of course!

If I really loved DataBasing I'd try something like Oracle or Paris
Hilton, which may be thought of as exotic and demanding; If I didn't I'd
study for my Real Estate Agent's papers.

--
Lyle Fairfield

Lyle,

Are you speaking from personal experience? About Paris Hilton being
demanding.

For the OP, I recommend learning a DotNet language, XML, SOA,
T-SQL/LINQ and javascript/java/AJAX in addition to Access.

James A. Fortune
CD********@Fort uneJames.com

[ManningFan]

Lyle Fairfield wrote:
Of course, Microsoft is wrong. IMO (again) more than fifty per cent
of
the seekers of help here have created something so convoluted and
ugly
that there is no solution. More patient regulars try to help; I
respect
and admire their humility and optimism while I suppress my instinct
to
answer, "Where did I go wrong?" with "You turned on the computer."
*************** *************** *************** *************** *************** ****

So you DO understand why some of my posts aren't so optimistic! I
think I put in 75% of my posts here that NOT EVERYONE CAN BUILD A
DATABASE! Just like not everyone can paint or play guitar or play
basketball. But just like the afore-mentioned, some people can do just
enough to screw it up to kingdom come.