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Microsoft Scripting Runtime Reference

To use the Textstream object, I had to set a Reference to the Microsoft
Scripting Runtime.

This works good with A2000

Is the Scripting Runtime included with A2002 and A2003 so the Reference
won't be broken when my app is opened with those versions.

Also is the Scripting Runtime included as part of the A2000 Runtime Engine
which some of my customers use.

Nov 13 '05 #1
17 4202
There's actually no connection that I'm aware of between the Scripting
Runtime and Access: I believe the Scripting Runtime comes with the operating
system, not Office.

If you're concerned about references, try using Late Binding, so that you
don't need to set a reference.

--
Doug Steele, Microsoft Access MVP
http://I.Am/DougSteele
(no e-mails, please!)

"Karl Irvin" <88********@com cast.net> wrote in message
news:RM******** ************@co mcast.com...
To use the Textstream object, I had to set a Reference to the Microsoft
Scripting Runtime.

This works good with A2000

Is the Scripting Runtime included with A2002 and A2003 so the Reference
won't be broken when my app is opened with those versions.

Also is the Scripting Runtime included as part of the A2000 Runtime Engine
which some of my customers use.

Nov 13 '05 #2
On Thu, 25 Aug 2005 15:45:12 -0500, "Karl Irvin"
<88********@com cast.net> wrote:

It's part of the OS and pretty much guaranteed to be there. You should
have no problems.

-Tom.

To use the Textstream object, I had to set a Reference to the Microsoft
Scripting Runtime.

This works good with A2000

Is the Scripting Runtime included with A2002 and A2003 so the Reference
won't be broken when my app is opened with those versions.

Also is the Scripting Runtime included as part of the A2000 Runtime Engine
which some of my customers use.


Nov 13 '05 #3
Tom van Stiphout <no************ *@cox.net> wrote in
news:4b******** *************** *********@4ax.c om:
On Thu, 25 Aug 2005 15:45:12 -0500, "Karl Irvin"
<88********@co mcast.net> wrote:
To use the Textstream object, I had to set a Reference to the
Microsoft Scripting Runtime.

This works good with A2000

Is the Scripting Runtime included with A2002 and A2003 so the
Reference won't be broken when my app is opened with those
versions.

Also is the Scripting Runtime included as part of the A2000
Runtime Engine which some of my customers use.


It's part of the OS and pretty much guaranteed to be there. You
should have no problems.


But it's one that is very often disabled through domain policies by
security-conscious system administrators.

I wouldn't count on it being installed or usable.

--
David W. Fenton http://www.bway.net/~dfenton
dfenton at bway dot net http://www.bway.net/~dfassoc
Nov 13 '05 #4
>I wouldn't count on it being installed or usable.

In which case you should ask those same administrators to tell you up
front which other *integral parts* of the OS they have disabled. It
will make your life as a developer a lot easier.
Gord

Nov 13 '05 #5
"Gord" <gd*@kingston.n et> wrote in
news:11******** **************@ g49g2000cwa.goo glegroups.com:
I wouldn't count on it being installed or usable.


In which case you should ask those same administrators to tell you
up front which other *integral parts* of the OS they have
disabled. It will make your life as a developer a lot easier.


The WSH is *not* an "integral part" of the oS. It's an insecure,
badly designed add-on to the OS that opens up massive security
vulnerabilities .

Yes, it's extraordinarily capable, but it's simply not designed to
be secure, so I don't think it's something anyone should count on
using, unless they are assured that it is available. And, of course,
when one is assured of that, one knows the network involved is not
terribly well administered from a security standpoint.

--
David W. Fenton http://www.bway.net/~dfenton
dfenton at bway dot net http://www.bway.net/~dfassoc
Nov 13 '05 #6
On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 15:01:10 -0500, "David W. Fenton"
<dX********@bwa y.net.invalid> wrote:
"Gord" <gd*@kingston.n et> wrote in
news:11******* *************** @g49g2000cwa.go oglegroups.com:
I wouldn't count on it being installed or usable.


In which case you should ask those same administrators to tell you
up front which other *integral parts* of the OS they have
disabled. It will make your life as a developer a lot easier.


The WSH is *not* an "integral part" of the oS. It's an insecure,
badly designed add-on to the OS that opens up massive security
vulnerabilitie s.

Yes, it's extraordinarily capable, but it's simply not designed to
be secure, so I don't think it's something anyone should count on
using, unless they are assured that it is available. And, of course,
when one is assured of that, one knows the network involved is not
terribly well administered from a security standpoint.


I know what you're saying used to be true, and perhaps it still is, but I'm
not at all certain of that.

1. I have an impression (though I don't know it for a fact) that large enough
fraction of commercial software is now written with the assumption that the
WSH libraries are available that WSH might now have to be considered integral
to the OS. If it's a piece that many popular applications won't function
without, that makes it integral.
2. Microsoft might have done better to engineer security in up front rather
than breaking everything later to achieve it, they have locked a lot of things
down much better how. I believe that WSH was one of the highest profile holes
that really did get boarded up. No program can make calls to very much of the
WSH now unless security is set to low or the user has chosen to allow a
specific application to use "unsafe expressions". The gaping security holes
that still do exist (like the ones a gazzillion spyware apps use) don't seem
to depend on WSH.
3. Many core microsoft libraries seem to now make the assumption that WSH is
also available. For instance, show me a way to stream MSXML SAX output to a
file on disk without FSO. You can do it to a stream in memory (which kinda
defeats the purpose) using an ADO stream, or you can stream to http in ASP,
but neither of those will get you a stream directly to a local file.
4. Dictionaries are mindbogglingly useful, but VB doesn't have one, and if you
roll your own, you have to debug it yourself, and you make your app harder to
maintain. WSH has a good dictionary object.

I'm not saying I'm sure you're wrong, but I think the above are some good
reasons to consider the answer less than black or white.
Nov 13 '05 #7
Steve Jorgensen <no****@nospam. nospam> wrote in
news:0i******** *************** *********@4ax.c om:
On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 15:01:10 -0500, "David W. Fenton"
<dX********@bw ay.net.invalid> wrote:
"Gord" <gd*@kingston.n et> wrote in
news:11****** *************** *@g49g2000cwa.g ooglegroups.com :
I wouldn't count on it being installed or usable.

In which case you should ask those same administrators to tell
you up front which other *integral parts* of the OS they have
disabled. It will make your life as a developer a lot easier.
The WSH is *not* an "integral part" of the oS. It's an insecure,
badly designed add-on to the OS that opens up massive security
vulnerabiliti es.

Yes, it's extraordinarily capable, but it's simply not designed to
be secure, so I don't think it's something anyone should count on
using, unless they are assured that it is available. And, of
course, when one is assured of that, one knows the network
involved is not terribly well administered from a security
standpoint.


I know what you're saying used to be true, and perhaps it still
is, but I'm not at all certain of that.

1. I have an impression (though I don't know it for a fact) that
large enough fraction of commercial software is now written with
the assumption that the WSH libraries are available that WSH might
now have to be considered integral to the OS. If it's a piece
that many popular applications won't function without, that makes
it integral.


Well, this seems to me to be the lemming argument. That lots of
software companies are jumping off the cliff doesn't mean I should
jump off the cliff. This point is only relevant to the question of
whether you can count on it to be available for use, and is an
indirect argument (sort of like looking out the window, seeing
people carrying umbrellas and assuming it's therefore raining; if
everybody's carrying one, your conclusion is pretty firm; if only a
few people are, it's not so dependable).

One should choose the components incorporated into your Access
application based on merit and ease of maintenance. For
functionality that can be implemented without WSH components (such
as file system access), it seems to me obvious that you should
construct your Access app without any outside dependencies.

For things that Access can't do by itself, it's a harder question.
But I strongly doubt that there's any common area of functionality
that one would want to include in an Access app for which there is
not some alternative to using the WSH.
2. Microsoft might have done better to engineer
security in up front rather than breaking everything later to
achieve it, they have locked a lot of things down much better how.
I believe that WSH was one of the highest profile holes that
really did get boarded up. No program can make calls to very much
of the WSH now unless security is set to low or the user has
chosen to allow a specific application to use "unsafe
expressions". The gaping security holes that still do exist (like
the ones a gazzillion spyware apps use) don't seem to depend on
WSH.
Well, setting security to low opens up gaping security holes.

The WSH should be re-engineered to be able to run safely in
high-security environments. If it's not, it's worthless, as using it
requires you to make your system vulnerable.

That's unacceptable to me, and should be unacceptable to other
Access programmers.
3. Many core microsoft libraries seem to now make the
assumption that WSH is also available. For instance, show me a
way to stream MSXML SAX output to a file on disk without FSO. You
can do it to a stream in memory (which kinda defeats the purpose)
using an ADO stream, or you can stream to http in ASP, but neither
of those will get you a stream directly to a local file.
Many MS products assume that IE is your default brwoser, or force
you to use it. That this is so does not make it a good idea. Indeed,
it's extremely bad design on MS's part, and to me, screams of
anti-competitive business practices.
4.
Dictionaries are mindbogglingly useful, but VB doesn't have one,
and if you roll your own, you have to debug it yourself, and you
make your app harder to maintain. WSH has a good dictionary
object.
Dictionaries? What are you talking about? And why would I need one?
I'm not saying I'm sure you're wrong, but I think the above are
some good reasons to consider the answer less than black or white.


It's an unsafe, insecure pile of garbage. It was badly designed and
implemented from the beginning and MS should be ashamed of
themselves for putting out such a poorly thought-out scripting
engine.

--
David W. Fenton http://www.bway.net/~dfenton
dfenton at bway dot net http://www.bway.net/~dfassoc
Nov 13 '05 #8
rkc
David W. Fenton wrote:
Dictionaries? What are you talking about? And why would I need one?


A Dictionary is a Collection object on steroids.

You don't need one.
Nov 13 '05 #9
On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 14:41:17 -0500, "David W. Fenton"
<dX********@bwa y.net.invalid> wrote:
Steve Jorgensen <no****@nospam. nospam> wrote in
news:0i******* *************** **********@4ax. com:
On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 15:01:10 -0500, "David W. Fenton"
<dX********@b way.net.invalid > wrote:
"Gord" <gd*@kingston.n et> wrote in
news:11***** *************** **@g49g2000cwa. googlegroups.co m:

>I wouldn't count on it being installed or usable.

In which case you should ask those same administrators to tell
you up front which other *integral parts* of the OS they have
disabled. It will make your life as a developer a lot easier.

The WSH is *not* an "integral part" of the oS. It's an insecure,
badly designed add-on to the OS that opens up massive security
vulnerabilit ies.

Yes, it's extraordinarily capable, but it's simply not designed to
be secure, so I don't think it's something anyone should count on
using, unless they are assured that it is available. And, of
course, when one is assured of that, one knows the network
involved is not terribly well administered from a security
standpoint .
I know what you're saying used to be true, and perhaps it still
is, but I'm not at all certain of that.

1. I have an impression (though I don't know it for a fact) that
large enough fraction of commercial software is now written with
the assumption that the WSH libraries are available that WSH might
now have to be considered integral to the OS. If it's a piece
that many popular applications won't function without, that makes
it integral.


Well, this seems to me to be the lemming argument. That lots of
software companies are jumping off the cliff doesn't mean I should
jump off the cliff. This point is only relevant to the question of
whether you can count on it to be available for use, and is an
indirect argument (sort of like looking out the window, seeing
people carrying umbrellas and assuming it's therefore raining; if
everybody's carrying one, your conclusion is pretty firm; if only a
few people are, it's not so dependable).

One should choose the components incorporated into your Access
application based on merit and ease of maintenance. For
functionalit y that can be implemented without WSH components (such
as file system access), it seems to me obvious that you should
construct your Access app without any outside dependencies.


Yeah, and I keep finding myself making my own wrappers around the VB file
statements or around API calls to correctly deal with file attributes, etc.
Also, since Dir has a global context, you have to make sure you don't do
nested Dir calls to try to navigate a directory tree.
For things that Access can't do by itself, it's a harder question.
But I strongly doubt that there's any common area of functionality
that one would want to include in an Access app for which there is
not some alternative to using the WSH.
Streaming to files, and dictionaries are 2 that come to mind. Not every app
needs these, but many do. The question for those is use the WSH, or roll your
own. In the case of streams, I don't know how to work around it shor of
writing custom C++ code.
2. Microsoft might have done better to engineer
security in up front rather than breaking everything later to
achieve it, they have locked a lot of things down much better how.
I believe that WSH was one of the highest profile holes that
really did get boarded up. No program can make calls to very much
of the WSH now unless security is set to low or the user has
chosen to allow a specific application to use "unsafe
expressions". The gaping security holes that still do exist (like
the ones a gazzillion spyware apps use) don't seem to depend on
WSH.


Well, setting security to low opens up gaping security holes.


Exactly - so if WSH is now only vulnerable if you do that, who cares, because
the system is wide open anyway.
The WSH should be re-engineered to be able to run safely in
high-security environments. If it's not, it's worthless, as using it
requires you to make your system vulnerable.


Isn't that what they did by blocking "unsafe" expressions? Nothing can now
use the WSH to get to the file system, even for read-only unless the user
grants permission to execute unsafe expressions. Whether it's now safe or
not, I get the impression you'd never believe that it was so long as it is
called WSH (and I won't say for sure that you're wrong in that).

....
3. Many core microsoft libraries seem to now make the
assumption that WSH is also available. For instance, show me a
way to stream MSXML SAX output to a file on disk without FSO. You
can do it to a stream in memory (which kinda defeats the purpose)
using an ADO stream, or you can stream to http in ASP, but neither
of those will get you a stream directly to a local file.


Many MS products assume that IE is your default brwoser, or force
you to use it. That this is so does not make it a good idea. Indeed,
it's extremely bad design on MS's part, and to me, screams of
anti-competitive business practices.


I don't see the WSH as being in that category. WSH is a library, just like
DAO is a library, that keeps everyone form having to choose to reinvent the
functionality within it or go without.
4.
Dictionaries are mindbogglingly useful, but VB doesn't have one,
and if you roll your own, you have to debug it yourself, and you
make your app harder to maintain. WSH has a good dictionary
object.


Dictionaries ? What are you talking about? And why would I need one?


I keep finding that my code is easier to maintain the more I use constructs
like collections and dictionaries, and move away from nested logic. A
dictionary is, in memory, much like the environment is in batch files. It's a
collection of values with names, in which new elements are transparently
created when assigned if they don't already exist, and a default value is
returnd for a non-existent element. You can also retrieve a list of the names
in a dictionary, unlike the names list in VBA collections which is write-only
for some really dumb reason.
I'm not saying I'm sure you're wrong, but I think the above are
some good reasons to consider the answer less than black or white.


It's an unsafe, insecure pile of garbage. It was badly designed and
implemented from the beginning and MS should be ashamed of
themselves for putting out such a poorly thought-out scripting
engine.


If you're talking about the fact that it's callable from Web page scripts -
yeah, I'm right with you. As a library of really useful coding tools, I don't
see that it has any problems. I know your issue is that whether it is useful
or not, it is unsafe to have it around. I'm not sure that's still true, and
I'm not sure it's not, but It seems like you're still in knee-jerk mode and
have not considered that things may be different than when you formed your
initial opinion.
Nov 13 '05 #10

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