I'm seriously considering setting up the future development
of AccHelp as an open source project on sourceforge.
Why? I just don't have the time (for various personal and
professional reasons) to bring it along the way I'd like.
My master plan for world domination has always included a
big expansion of it's capabilities :-))
So I'm seeking some views on the pros and cons and also a
feel for who in the more experienced part of the access
community would be interested in having a bash at this.
I'm serious about this, not just farting about.
TIA
--
Nick Coe (UK)
Available - Will work for money :-) http://www.alphacos.co.uk/ AccHelp + pAnimal http://www.pjandcoe.co.uk/ Online Store
Nov 13 '05
13 1602
Albert:
Thanks for your input.
You're right: Access programmers can easily find lots of good sample
code. And I certainly have found the Access community (including this
forum) to be very helpful.
However, what I think Nick has recognized is a lack of good, free
software packages to help developers do their thing. Sort of a more
widely available alternative to some of the tools offered by the
(underused) Office Developer Edition.
I've used VSS in the past, and it works well for its intended purpose.
But, you identified its key shortcoming for an open source project:
"... we would need to extend the VSS to the web."
Or, use an alternative system, like CVS. CVS is the backbone of many an
open source project. While I am not experienced with CVS, I understand
that it allows web or email based collaboration on a code project,
while allowing the project owners to control what code gets included in
the final release.
As you mentioned, good collaboration on an open source project requires
just a few core people. If the project takes off, then it will attract
more contributors, who tend to take on more minor (but still critical)
roles, like testing, submitting bug reports and fixes, documentation,
etc.
Starting a successful open source Access project will be tough, not
just for the initial reasons outlined above, but also the technical
problem of how to deliver such a package to the user. I'm thinking
maybe .NET components using COM interop to mimic an Office Add-in?
While most of the Access community is users, there are always those
users with domain expertise (they know how a particular esoteric
business works) who manage to build a functional application in Access,
even though they are not developers. This audience (which Access covers
uniquely well) could benefit from free, easily available tools like
this.
If this could get off the ground, such tools could provide a stable,
independent alternative for Access developers, kind of like Mono and
DotNetNuke are doing for the .NET and ASP.NET communities.
Thanks again,
-Ken
Thanks for your thoughts Ken. Much appreciated and plenty
of food for thought.
Like so many things it will hinge around the people involved
rather than the technology. SourceForge offers the tools I
think, but are enough people interested? I'd still have to
spend a fair amount of time managing the project but at
least it would be moving forwards and if it gained momentum
maybe more of the admin/managing could be delegated..
As for expanding out to address other development tools and
thus attract other developers, it's a tempting prospect but
I'm inclined to focus first on Access since that (and
Clarion) is what I am most familiar with at the moment.
That doesn't mean don't address other tools, it means if the
right skillsets are available _then_ go for it.
ATB
--
Nick Coe (UK)
Available - Will work for money :-) http://www.alphacos.co.uk/ AccHelp + pAnimal http://www.pjandcoe.co.uk/ Online Store
In
news:11******** **************@ g44g2000cwa.goo glegroups.com,
Ken Ismert typed: Nick,
Congrats on the idea. It is a concept I wish more Access developers were comfortable with.
Open Source works through an entirely different social ethos than proprietary software development. Most programmers of Microsoft products are unfamiliar with this cooperative group method of working.
You can view Open Source as a kind of meritocracy, where individual contributors compete for recognition of their efforts.
While it may seem free form and maybe a little anarchic from the outside, most successful Open Source projects have a definite structure, and unwritten rules of conduct.
Any Open Source project must have an owner (you) who is ultimately responsible for final decisions on architecture and direction of the project. The owner delegates coding responsibility for logical subcomponents of the project to group leaders, who do the bulk of the coding and maintenance for their modules. From there, other coders typically play minor roles: finding and reporting bugs, submitting fixes for bugs, submitting new features, doing documentation, etc.
But, work is not added willy-nilly to the project. It is tested and evaluated by the appropriate group leader, who will incorporate it only if it is found acceptable. The efforts of the group leaders are moderated by the Owner.
The critical thing is, being a voluntary effort, credit for individual work must be given and maintained. One of the worst things that can happen is not crediting someone for their efforts, or mis-crediting someone. Everyone must get their proper 'geek points' for there to be a happy, productive Open Source project.
In a successful Open Source project, the owner takes on the roles of moderator, diplomat, cheer leader and evangelist as the project grows and gets more and more participants.
Ending on a practical note, this all gets enforced using the mechanisms provided by CVS (Concurrent Versioning System) or some other code control system. All coders must have some familiarity with this system to participate.
I've run on way too long. I'll stop here.
Good luck.
-Ken
Albert,
I think you've hit the nail on the head. Plus as I said in
my OP, for various reasons I'm short on time (aren't we all)
and am finally convinced that I cannot devote as much time
to AccHelp as I would like. It bugs the hell out of me
actually, I can think of so many things to do with it...
:-)
Anyway, thanks for your comments, let's hope some more
people join in the discussion. Meantime I'm going to see
how something like this would work on SourceForge and if CVS
is appropriate for Access work like VSS.
ATB
--
Nick Coe (UK)
Available - Will work for money :-) http://www.alphacos.co.uk/ AccHelp + pAnimal http://www.pjandcoe.co.uk/ Online Store
In news:xFBOe.2908 35$s54.166125@p d7tw2no,
Albert D. Kallal typed: "Ken Ismert" <ki*****@texass ystems.com> wrote in message news:11******** **************@ g44g2000cwa.goo glegroups.com.. .
Great comments Ken.
Most programmers of Microsoft products are unfamiliar with this cooperative group method of working.
Hum, I think one needs to clarify the above. I should add that the VAST majority of ms-access downloads include full source code. One of the great things about ms-access is the INCREDIBLE amount of examples, help and sample codes with full open source included. If you are saying that most ms-access developers don't use source code control, then yes, I understand the above statement. However, when you compare ms-access, and the INCREDIBLE amount of samples with full open code, I bet ms-access ranks near the top in shared, and open code. There is an INCREDIBLE AMOUNT of sites and downloads for ms-access. Further, the product is well over 10 years old, and thus has had a great head start in terms of web sites and free open code. Ms-access (unlike VB6) continues to grow and have new users jump on board every day. So, we continue to get new web sites with example (open) code for ms-access. So, I don't think the ms-access as community is not cooperative, and is not sharing. The access community is likely one of the BEST comminutes in terms of sharing things. And, the fact that we are reading this newsgroup is proof of the contributors to this community. So, I do agree that as a rule, these shared and free open access applications are NOT THE result of collaboration, but that does not mean that the ms-access community does not share their code,and most ms-access downloads do include the source code openly, and freely. As for using source code control, VSS does work well with ms-access (take a look at the screen shots here..and note the check marks, and "locks" for code and forms that I have check-out. (anything with a check mark is what I check out to work on). http://www.members.shaw.ca/AlbertKallal/vss/index.htm
Now, as for having a group effort for this help system. ?
We could go about this in two ways:
1) have people use the code, and make suggestions, and then Nick can incorporate those changes.
2) Implement a source code control system, and have people work on the product in that fashion. I don't know if the project is large enough, or needs this type of approach. (and, worse, most ms-access developers don't use VSS, or some other source control system -- even more worse is we would need to extend the VSS to the web). It is always tough to get people on board, and as mentioned, coordination of the contributors would not be easy. If it is just a few people, then no problem...
The other issue(s) is what is the future direction of the product to be (what are people asking for!). (my bets would be more tools on the ms-access side to edit the help text...and ONLY need the help compiler for the compiling...but NOT NEED to use help workshop, or whatever to edit the results). And, something to generate help id's in ms-access would help. To be fair, I think Nick has got a good idea in something that the community can use, but figuring out a way to get the ms-access community to contribute is going to be tough. This is going to be tough not because the ms-access community is not generous, but just the way the community works. Further, MOST of the ms-access community is not comprised of developers, but a very large portion is users. Most software projects are able to get contributors when the majority of users are themselves developers, and user systems/tools tend to have a tough time getting developer support. Anyway, certainly some food for thought.... This thread has been closed and replies have been disabled. Please start a new discussion. Similar topics |
by: paypal |
last post by:
For those of you in the San Francisco Bay Area ...
PHP5 & Web Services, The Present and the Future:
Andi Gutmans of Zend, will give an overview of the PHP phenomena and
how it has come to dominate web application development. The talk will
also cover the PHP 5 Web Services support and show examples of how it
is exposed to the PHP developer. In addition, Andi will talk about
where PHP is heading and specifically Web Services.
Andi...
|
by: Radith Silva |
last post by:
Hi all;
I'm currently a student comparing my study options for the future. Currently
I have (Certified) experience in Java and Web Development. My strong-hold I'd
say is web-development but am willing to look at other things depending on
the size of the industry and obviously the pay. My current program at
University (or College in U.S.A.) allows me to specialize in software
devlopment; I.T. security; Internet Programming
Although I...
|
by: James Cameron |
last post by:
Hi I'm developing a program and the client is worried about future
reuse of the code. Say 5, 10, 15 years down the road. This will be a
major factor in selecting the development language. Any comments on
past experience, research articles, comments on the matter would be
much appreciated. I suspect something like C would be the best based
on comments I received from the VB news group.
Thanks for the help in advance
James Cameron
|
by: nospam |
last post by:
Once Yukon is released (whenever that might be) does anyone from MS have any
comment on licensing for Yukon and on SQL 2000.
I really don't think anyone with SQL 2000 licenses are going to upgrade
because the database admin or even the developer is going to convince
management it's worth the cost regardless if SQL server can do C# or VB.NET
stored procedures.
This is because the performance is terrible and Oracle has had Java stored...
|
by: David Eng |
last post by:
> For many years now enterprise business application development has
> been the core area for the use of C++.
> Today a significant share to this segment has already been lost to
> SUN's Java technology and with MS now abandoning C++ in favour if its
> proprietery .NET and C# technology, how long can we except C++ to hold
> on against these might competitors?
> Has C++ become a dying language?
> What is the future of C++?
As I posted...
| |
by: puzzlecracker |
last post by:
I was wondering what people think about the future (if any) for C++.
How long do you think it will be marketable for and how would it market
value stand against other powerhouses (!!!) such as Java or C#? Is
there going to be another standardization? C++ is such a powerful
language and its graduate descent to oblivion seem rather disturbing.
Thanks,
|
by: Uwe Range |
last post by:
Hi to all!
A customer of mine told me some days ago that her IT-people told her
ACCESS would not be such a good idea for continuing with our project,
because Access will not be continued in the future. I haven't heard of
this. Does anybody know more about it?
The IT-People usually prefer Oracle. If they really want to go in this
direction, could our Access-application (if continued) be used as a
front end with an Oracle back end? Does...
|
by: John |
last post by:
Hi
What future does access have after the release of vs 2005/sql 2005? MS
doesn't seem to have done anything major with access lately and presumably
hoping that everyone migrates to vs/sql.
Any comments?
Thanks
|
by: Jason Vene |
last post by:
I've looked at recent posts and not found material, but I'm new to the
board, so please forgive if this thread has come up before.
I'm facing a conundrum about development of business applications which have
robust user interface requirements (sorry, details must be kept private).
The UI will be required to present images, graphs (more akin to signals than
charts, like a wave file editor), various custom controls (some are full
scale...
|
by: marktang |
last post by:
ONU (Optical Network Unit) is one of the key components for providing high-speed Internet services. Its primary function is to act as an endpoint device located at the user's premises. However, people are often confused as to whether an ONU can Work As a Router. In this blog post, we’ll explore What is ONU, What Is Router, ONU & Router’s main usage, and What is the difference between ONU and Router. Let’s take a closer look !
Part I. Meaning of...
|
by: Hystou |
last post by:
Most computers default to English, but sometimes we require a different language, especially when relocating. Forgot to request a specific language before your computer shipped? No problem! You can effortlessly switch the default language on Windows 10 without reinstalling. I'll walk you through it.
First, let's disable language synchronization. With a Microsoft account, language settings sync across devices. To prevent any complications,...
| |
by: Oralloy |
last post by:
Hello folks,
I am unable to find appropriate documentation on the type promotion of bit-fields when using the generalised comparison operator "<=>".
The problem is that using the GNU compilers, it seems that the internal comparison operator "<=>" tries to promote arguments from unsigned to signed.
This is as boiled down as I can make it.
Here is my compilation command:
g++-12 -std=c++20 -Wnarrowing bit_field.cpp
Here is the code in...
|
by: tracyyun |
last post by:
Dear forum friends,
With the development of smart home technology, a variety of wireless communication protocols have appeared on the market, such as Zigbee, Z-Wave, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, etc. Each protocol has its own unique characteristics and advantages, but as a user who is planning to build a smart home system, I am a bit confused by the choice of these technologies. I'm particularly interested in Zigbee because I've heard it does some...
|
by: isladogs |
last post by:
The next Access Europe User Group meeting will be on Wednesday 1 May 2024 starting at 18:00 UK time (6PM UTC+1) and finishing by 19:30 (7.30PM).
In this session, we are pleased to welcome a new presenter, Adolph Dupré who will be discussing some powerful techniques for using class modules.
He will explain when you may want to use classes instead of User Defined Types (UDT). For example, to manage the data in unbound forms.
Adolph will...
|
by: conductexam |
last post by:
I have .net C# application in which I am extracting data from word file and save it in database particularly. To store word all data as it is I am converting the whole word file firstly in HTML and then checking html paragraph one by one.
At the time of converting from word file to html my equations which are in the word document file was convert into image.
Globals.ThisAddIn.Application.ActiveDocument.Select();...
|
by: 6302768590 |
last post by:
Hai team
i want code for transfer the data from one system to another through IP address by using C# our system has to for every 5mins then we have to update the data what the data is updated we have to send another system
|
by: muto222 |
last post by:
How can i add a mobile payment intergratation into php mysql website.
| |
by: bsmnconsultancy |
last post by:
In today's digital era, a well-designed website is crucial for businesses looking to succeed. Whether you're a small business owner or a large corporation in Toronto, having a strong online presence can significantly impact your brand's success. BSMN Consultancy, a leader in Website Development in Toronto offers valuable insights into creating effective websites that not only look great but also perform exceptionally well. In this comprehensive...
| |