A Modest Question

[Tim Patrick]

Friends and MVPs,

I have enjoyed taking part in these public forums. For years I lurked on
the sidelines, scavanging the technical information I required for my own
projects. Perhaps my own fear of making mistakes kept me from participating.
But now that I have provided a few feable answers to some of the questions,
I have experienced the same joy you must have felt for years.

However, a new menace has appeared in these forums. It has taken the shape
of Luddites who post neither questions nor answers, but only their own internal
fears and deficiencies in the form of verbal abuse and mockery. Toying with
our patience and with incorrect English grammar, they fill in the gaps of
their own understanding with expletives and empty taunts.

The question is: what to do in response to these postings? A quick search
on Google Groups has uncovered the history of these rabble-rousers, and that
history is long and consistent. Responders much wiser than I have attempted
to correct or stem the sewage of these missives, but to no avail. No logic
or incentive will deter them from their mission of tearing down what others
hold dear, or at least find useful. And sadly, those who come to these public
forums looking for true assistance are greeted with jeers and ridicule.

My initial proposal is to treat them like teeth: if you ignore them, they
will go away. But I am open to alternate solutions.

-----
Tim Patrick - www.timaki.com
Start-to-Finish Visual Basic 2005

[Spam Catcher]

Tim Patrick <in*****@invalid.com.invalidwrote in
news:e3*************************@newsgroups.comcas t.net:

Perhaps my own fear of making mistakes kept me from participating.

Making mistakes is part of learning :-)

However, a new menace has appeared in these forums. It has taken the
shape of Luddites who post neither questions nor answers, but only
their own internal fears and deficiencies in the form of verbal abuse
and mockery. Toying with our patience and with incorrect English
grammar, they fill in the gaps of their own understanding with
expletives and empty taunts.

They're trolls - put those people on your newsreader's kill list :-)

The question is: what to do in response to these postings? A quick
search on Google Groups has uncovered the history of these
rabble-rousers, and that history is long and consistent.

Give Xnews or a real newsreader a try. These applications provide very
powerful filtering capabilities.

Only cavet - you need access to a news server (Microsoft has a free one for
Microsoft Groups... your ISP might have one with wider coverage).

[susiedba]

maybe you should broaden your horizons

we work for change; not putting up with this dictatorship in Redmond

-Susie, DBA
Spam Catcher wrote:

Tim Patrick <in*****@invalid.com.invalidwrote in
news:e3*************************@newsgroups.comcas t.net:

Perhaps my own fear of making mistakes kept me from participating.

Making mistakes is part of learning :-)

However, a new menace has appeared in these forums. It has taken the
shape of Luddites who post neither questions nor answers, but only
their own internal fears and deficiencies in the form of verbal abuse
and mockery. Toying with our patience and with incorrect English
grammar, they fill in the gaps of their own understanding with
expletives and empty taunts.

They're trolls - put those people on your newsreader's kill list :-)

The question is: what to do in response to these postings? A quick
search on Google Groups has uncovered the history of these
rabble-rousers, and that history is long and consistent.

Give Xnews or a real newsreader a try. These applications provide very
powerful filtering capabilities.

Only cavet - you need access to a news server (Microsoft has a free one for
Microsoft Groups... your ISP might have one with wider coverage).

[RobinS]

I'm glad you're participating, I think you are very helpful.

I'm starting to think you are right and we should just ignore
them. They are abusive, and just want to yell at us because
we don't agree with them.

I'm enjoying moving from VB6 to VB2005, and I'm enjoying
helping people in this newsgroup while I have time during this
lull in my schedule. I don't think I deserve to be abused for that,
and nor does anybody else.

Robin S.
------------------------
"Tim Patrick" <in*****@invalid.com.invalidwrote in message
news:e3*************************@newsgroups.comcas t.net...

Friends and MVPs,

I have enjoyed taking part in these public forums. For years I lurked on
the sidelines, scavanging the technical information I required for my own
projects. Perhaps my own fear of making mistakes kept me from
participating. But now that I have provided a few feable answers to some
of the questions, I have experienced the same joy you must have felt for
years.

However, a new menace has appeared in these forums. It has taken the shape
of Luddites who post neither questions nor answers, but only their own
internal fears and deficiencies in the form of verbal abuse and mockery.
Toying with our patience and with incorrect English grammar, they fill in
the gaps of their own understanding with expletives and empty taunts.

The question is: what to do in response to these postings? A quick search
on Google Groups has uncovered the history of these rabble-rousers, and
that history is long and consistent. Responders much wiser than I have
attempted to correct or stem the sewage of these missives, but to no
avail. No logic or incentive will deter them from their mission of tearing
down what others hold dear, or at least find useful. And sadly, those who
come to these public forums looking for true assistance are greeted with
jeers and ridicule.

My initial proposal is to treat them like teeth: if you ignore them, they
will go away. But I am open to alternate solutions.

-----
Tim Patrick - www.timaki.com
Start-to-Finish Visual Basic 2005

[Russ Rose]

Always best not to feed the trolls.
"Tim Patrick" <in*****@invalid.com.invalidwrote in message
news:e3*************************@newsgroups.comcas t.net...

Friends and MVPs,

I have enjoyed taking part in these public forums. For years I lurked on
the sidelines, scavanging the technical information I required for my own
projects. Perhaps my own fear of making mistakes kept me from
participating. But now that I have provided a few feable answers to some
of the questions, I have experienced the same joy you must have felt for
years.

However, a new menace has appeared in these forums. It has taken the shape
of Luddites who post neither questions nor answers, but only their own
internal fears and deficiencies in the form of verbal abuse and mockery.
Toying with our patience and with incorrect English grammar, they fill in
the gaps of their own understanding with expletives and empty taunts.

The question is: what to do in response to these postings? A quick search
on Google Groups has uncovered the history of these rabble-rousers, and
that history is long and consistent. Responders much wiser than I have
attempted to correct or stem the sewage of these missives, but to no
avail. No logic or incentive will deter them from their mission of tearing
down what others hold dear, or at least find useful. And sadly, those who
come to these public forums looking for true assistance are greeted with
jeers and ridicule.

My initial proposal is to treat them like teeth: if you ignore them, they
will go away. But I am open to alternate solutions.

-----
Tim Patrick - www.timaki.com
Start-to-Finish Visual Basic 2005

[rowe_newsgroups]

I have enjoyed taking part in these public forums. For years I lurked on

the sidelines, scavanging the technical information I required for my own
projects. Perhaps my own fear of making mistakes kept me from participating.
But now that I have provided a few feable answers to some of the questions,
I have experienced the same joy you must have felt for years.

I just started posting a few months ago, doing the same "lurking" that
you did. It does feel good to give the same help to others that I have
relied on heavily in the past. Fortunately, if you do ever post
something completely wrong, most of the others will nicely (albeit
sternly) correct your mistake. I don't worry about it too much anymore
- I just hope I'm correct more often than I'm wrong :-) Anyways,
welcome to the newsgroup and thanks for your contributions.

However, a new menace has appeared in these forums. It has taken the shape
of Luddites who post neither questions nor answers, but only their own internal
fears and deficiencies in the form of verbal abuse and mockery.

It's a shame isn't it? Technical debates are great, but only when they
don't result in people trashing each other. Nothing is ever solved by
those types of conversations. Personally, I think that as soon as it is
obvious that continuing the conversation with a posible flamer/troll
will do noone any good then you should let the conversation be (i.e.
don't continue to engage them). If you must, leave a final post stating
your both your and the other opinions and advise other readers to
investigate both opinions (as there is usually some truth in their
arguments) Finally state clearly that you aren't going to continue the
conversation further, and then don't.

Toying with our patience and with incorrect English grammar

Sorry, one more thing :-) Be careful when criticizing grammar, a lot of
posters don't use newsreader services that have grammar and spell
checkers (I don't and it probally shows). Many words tend to go through
peoples heads and never manage to make it into the typed sentences -
but since you are a writer I'm probally preaching to the choir. Also,
many posters aren't fluent in english and sometimes have trouble
getting things into "proper" english. Cor Ligthert is a huge
contributor to this (and other) newsgroup and I hold a lot of respect
for him. But honestly, he has authored some threads that I have read
and re-read multiple times without figuring out what he was trying to
say. Fortunately, most of Cor's postings are easy to understand despite
of some grammar issues, and his code samples always seem to be perfect.
(Cor - I swear I'm not picking on you, I promise!)

Thanks,

Seth Rowe
Tim Patrick wrote:

Friends and MVPs,

I have enjoyed taking part in these public forums. For years I lurked on
the sidelines, scavanging the technical information I required for my own
projects. Perhaps my own fear of making mistakes kept me from participating.
But now that I have provided a few feable answers to some of the questions,
I have experienced the same joy you must have felt for years.

However, a new menace has appeared in these forums. It has taken the shape
of Luddites who post neither questions nor answers, but only their own internal
fears and deficiencies in the form of verbal abuse and mockery. Toying with
our patience and with incorrect English grammar, they fill in the gaps of
their own understanding with expletives and empty taunts.

The question is: what to do in response to these postings? A quick search
on Google Groups has uncovered the history of these rabble-rousers, and that
history is long and consistent. Responders much wiser than I have attempted
to correct or stem the sewage of these missives, but to no avail. No logic
or incentive will deter them from their mission of tearing down what others
hold dear, or at least find useful. And sadly, those who come to these public
forums looking for true assistance are greeted with jeers and ridicule.

My initial proposal is to treat them like teeth: if you ignore them, they
will go away. But I am open to alternate solutions.

-----
Tim Patrick - www.timaki.com
Start-to-Finish Visual Basic 2005

[Tim Patrick]

Yes, perhaps I was too free with that statement, Seth. Thank you for your
correction. Still, in this isolated case, I think I will keep the original
statement.

-----
Tim Patrick - www.timaki.com
Start-to-Finish Visual Basic 2005

>Toying with our patience and with incorrect English grammar

Sorry, one more thing :-) Be careful when criticizing grammar, a lot
of posters don't use newsreader services that have grammar and spell
checkers (I don't and it probally shows).

Thanks,

Seth Rowe

[Branco Medeiros]

Tim Patrick wrote:

Friends and MVPs,

<snip>

My initial proposal is to treat them like teeth: if you ignore them, they
will go away. But I am open to alternate solutions.

Well, this is a very important (and very true, unfortunately) warning
regarding teeth... =))

As for trolls, it is also the Recommended Approach (tm).

Regards,

B.

[susiedba]

nothing is solved?

you sit idly by while Microsoft bastardizes your language

I would rather flip burgers than ever use C#
and Microsoft sold out the vb developers a LONG LONG time ago

-Susie, DBA
rowe_newsgroups wrote:

I have enjoyed taking part in these public forums. For years I lurked on
the sidelines, scavanging the technical information I required for my own
projects. Perhaps my own fear of making mistakes kept me from participating.
But now that I have provided a few feable answers to some of the questions,
I have experienced the same joy you must have felt for years.

I just started posting a few months ago, doing the same "lurking" that
you did. It does feel good to give the same help to others that I have
relied on heavily in the past. Fortunately, if you do ever post
something completely wrong, most of the others will nicely (albeit
sternly) correct your mistake. I don't worry about it too much anymore
- I just hope I'm correct more often than I'm wrong :-) Anyways,
welcome to the newsgroup and thanks for your contributions.

However, a new menace has appeared in these forums. It has taken the shape
of Luddites who post neither questions nor answers, but only their own internal
fears and deficiencies in the form of verbal abuse and mockery.

It's a shame isn't it? Technical debates are great, but only when they
don't result in people trashing each other. Nothing is ever solved by
those types of conversations. Personally, I think that as soon as it is
obvious that continuing the conversation with a posible flamer/troll
will do noone any good then you should let the conversation be (i.e.
don't continue to engage them). If you must, leave a final post stating
your both your and the other opinions and advise other readers to
investigate both opinions (as there is usually some truth in their
arguments) Finally state clearly that you aren't going to continue the
conversation further, and then don't.

Toying with our patience and with incorrect English grammar

Sorry, one more thing :-) Be careful when criticizing grammar, a lot of
posters don't use newsreader services that have grammar and spell
checkers (I don't and it probally shows). Many words tend to go through
peoples heads and never manage to make it into the typed sentences -
but since you are a writer I'm probally preaching to the choir. Also,
many posters aren't fluent in english and sometimes have trouble
getting things into "proper" english. Cor Ligthert is a huge
contributor to this (and other) newsgroup and I hold a lot of respect
for him. But honestly, he has authored some threads that I have read
and re-read multiple times without figuring out what he was trying to
say. Fortunately, most of Cor's postings are easy to understand despite
of some grammar issues, and his code samples always seem to be perfect.
(Cor - I swear I'm not picking on you, I promise!)

Thanks,

Seth Rowe
Tim Patrick wrote:

Friends and MVPs,

I have enjoyed taking part in these public forums. For years I lurked on
the sidelines, scavanging the technical information I required for my own
projects. Perhaps my own fear of making mistakes kept me from participating.
But now that I have provided a few feable answers to some of the questions,
I have experienced the same joy you must have felt for years.

However, a new menace has appeared in these forums. It has taken the shape
of Luddites who post neither questions nor answers, but only their own internal
fears and deficiencies in the form of verbal abuse and mockery. Toying with
our patience and with incorrect English grammar, they fill in the gaps of
their own understanding with expletives and empty taunts.

The question is: what to do in response to these postings? A quick search
on Google Groups has uncovered the history of these rabble-rousers, and that
history is long and consistent. Responders much wiser than I have attempted
to correct or stem the sewage of these missives, but to no avail. No logic
or incentive will deter them from their mission of tearing down what others
hold dear, or at least find useful. And sadly, those who come to these public
forums looking for true assistance are greeted with jeers and ridicule.

My initial proposal is to treat them like teeth: if you ignore them, they
will go away. But I am open to alternate solutions.

-----
Tim Patrick - www.timaki.com
Start-to-Finish Visual Basic 2005