Hi All!
We are doing new development for SQL Server 2000 and also moving from
SQL 7.0 to SQL Server 2000.
What are cons and pros for using IDENTITY property as PK in SQL SERVER
2000?
Please, share your experience in using IDENTITY as PK .
Does SCOPE_IDENTITY makes life easier in SQL 2000?
Is there issues with DENTITY property when moving DB from one server
to another? (the same version of SQL Server)
Thank you in advance,
Andy
Jul 20 '05
112  10363 
"Bob Badour" <bb*****@golden .net> wrote in message
news:ru******** ************@go lden.net... "BenignVani lla" <bv@tibetanbeef garden.com> wrote in message
news:Qq******** ************@gi ganews.com...
"Bob Badour" <bb*****@golden .net> wrote in message
news:Qa******** ************@go lden.net...
<snip> With all due respect, the user of the dbms does care. Think about it.
Please explain. I do not understand your point.
That's because you have not thought about it yet. Either that or you
really do lack the ability to comprehend simple written english.
With each post, I believe you to be more of a troll. We are discussing a
specific topic here. You have taken issue with one of my questions. If you
will simply make insulting remarks and continue to refrain from answering
the questions with what you believe to be the correct answer, you do nothing
but reduce your credibility.
I understand the design I am discussing, and believe it to be a good one. If
you believe it not to be, explain why.
--
BV.
WebPorgmaster - www.IHeartMyPond.com
Work at Home, Save the Environment - www.amothersdream.com
"BenignVani lla" <bv@tibetanbeef garden.com> wrote in message
news:6f******** ************@gi ganews.com...
"Bob Badour" <bb*****@golden .net> wrote in message
news:DJ******** ************@go lden.net... "BenignVani lla" <bv@tibetanbeef garden.com> wrote in message
news:p8******** ************@gi ganews.com...
"Bob Badour" <bb*****@golden .net> wrote in message
news:Iu******** ************@go lden.net...
<snip>
> > It is not a natural key.
>
> While the key remains unfamiliar, this is true. However, as soon as
it > becomes familiar, this ceases to be the case. I was assigned an arbitrary > nine digit university identification number two degades ago. I can still > recite this number easily having used it on literally hundreds if
not > thousands of pieces of correspondence. That sounds like a natural enough key
> to me.
<snip>
So, are you saying an arbritrary number assigned to you by your
collegis a natural key because it has become famaliar to you, but an IDENTITY
field can't be?
I suggest you apparently lack the ability to comprehend relatively
simple written english as well. Could you point out anything I wrote that would
lead you to conclude I ever said anything so ridiculous?
I did as you ask in my original post, where I quoted your post. It was my
interpretation of that paragraph that led me to ask the question. I was
not making a statement, I was asking a question. You seemed to say, in the
above paragraph, that the number assigned to you by your college "sounds like a
natural enough key", so I was inquiring as to why this arbitrary number is
any more natural then an IDENTITY field.
I said nothing to indicate that it is any more natural than an identity
field. I suggest your incapacity with respect to written english amounts to
a failure to apply the closed world assumption.
"BenignVani lla" <bv@tibetanbeef garden.com> wrote in message
news:c5******** ************@gi ganews.com...
"Bob Badour" <bb*****@golden .net> wrote in message
news:ru******** ************@go lden.net... "BenignVani lla" <bv@tibetanbeef garden.com> wrote in message
news:Qq******** ************@gi ganews.com...
"Bob Badour" <bb*****@golden .net> wrote in message
news:Qa******** ************@go lden.net...
<snip>
> With all due respect, the user of the dbms does care. Think about
it.
Please explain. I do not understand your point.
That's because you have not thought about it yet. Either that or you
really do lack the ability to comprehend simple written english.
With each post, I believe you to be more of a troll. We are discussing a
specific topic here. You have taken issue with one of my questions. If you
will simply make insulting remarks and continue to refrain from answering
the questions with what you believe to be the correct answer, you do
nothing but reduce your credibility.
I understand the design I am discussing, and believe it to be a good one.
If you believe it not to be, explain why.
When the user of the dbms must track down an alleged anomaly in the data,
how does the user proceed?
"Bob Badour" <bb*****@golden .net> wrote in message
news:Dd******** ************@go lden.net...
<snip> Because most of the contributors to this thread are profoundly ignorant of
fundamentals, they lack the ability to state anything succinctly, and
instead they veer off onto wild tangents where they insist others accept
their ignorant misconceived definitions of simple terms.
<snip>
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, as I do not see your posts
contributing to the thread, and you don't see me doing that as well.
--
BV.
WebPorgmaster - www.IHeartMyPond.com
Work at Home, Save the Environment - www.amothersdream.com
"BenignVani lla" <bv@tibetanbeef garden.com> wrote in message
news:c5******** ************@gi ganews.com... That's because you have not thought about it yet. Either that or you
really do lack the ability to comprehend simple written english.
With each post, I believe you to be more of a troll.
Let me free you of any doubts: if it looks like a troll, smells like a troll
and sounds like a troll: it's a troll!!!
And a boring one too because I hear nothing else but: "lack the ability to
comprehend simple written english.". And I can assure you, I comprehend
simple written English as well as Dutch, French and German :-P
"BenignVani lla" <bv@tibetanbeef garden.com> wrote in message
news:-P************** ******@giganews .com...
"Bob Badour" <bb*****@golden .net> wrote in message
news:Dd******** ************@go lden.net...
<snip> Because most of the contributors to this thread are profoundly ignorant
of fundamentals, they lack the ability to state anything succinctly, and
instead they veer off onto wild tangents where they insist others accept
their ignorant misconceived definitions of simple terms.
<snip>
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, as I do not see your posts
contributing to the thread, and you don't see me doing that as well.
I doubt we disagree on the data management issues, and I am quite content to
agree to disagree on the rest.
"Bob Badour" <bb*****@golden .net> wrote in message
news:vt******** ************@go lden.net...
<snip> When the user of the dbms must track down an alleged anomaly in the data,
how does the user proceed?
That is a valid point. My answer would be that we have two levels of users.
The "app users" that never see the ID, would not be tracking such an
anomaly. So that is not an issue for us. If such an anomoly were to arise,
which hopefully the design and proper management would prevent, we have a
level of DB users that could analyze the tables directly to solve the issue
and hopefully provide a solution to prevent further anomolies.
--
BV.
WebPorgmaster - www.IHeartMyPond.com
Work at Home, Save the Environment - www.amothersdream.com
"BenignVani lla" <bv@tibetanbeef garden.com> wrote in message
news:Ft******** ************@gi ganews.com...
"Bob Badour" <bb*****@golden .net> wrote in message
news:vt******** ************@go lden.net...
<snip> When the user of the dbms must track down an alleged anomaly in the
data, how does the user proceed?
That is a valid point. My answer would be that we have two levels of
users. The "app users" that never see the ID, would not be tracking such an
anomaly.
In other words, the "app users" use a view of the data with a different
identifier. They see the identifier they use. They might perceive an anomaly
in their data and use the identifier they see to track it down.
The relational model has views and snapshots, ie. named derived relation
variables, to address this very issue. It is revealing to consider the
candidate keys of these derived relation variables.
So that is not an issue for us. If such an anomoly were to arise,
which hopefully the design and proper management would prevent
No amount of design and proper management can eliminate human error or
malice.
, we have a
level of DB users that could analyze the tables directly to solve the
issue and hopefully provide a solution to prevent further anomolies.
These users see a different view of the data or perhaps a proper superset of
the "app users" view of the data. They, of course, can see the identifiers
they use.
"Bob Badour" <bb*****@golden .net> wrote in message
news:7q******** ************@go lden.net... "BenignVani lla" <bv@tibetanbeef garden.com> wrote in message
news:Ft******** ************@gi ganews.com...
"Bob Badour" <bb*****@golden .net> wrote in message
news:vt******** ************@go lden.net...
<snip> When the user of the dbms must track down an alleged anomaly in the data, how does the user proceed?
That is a valid point. My answer would be that we have two levels of
users. The "app users" that never see the ID, would not be tracking such an
anomaly.
In other words, the "app users" use a view of the data with a different
identifier. They see the identifier they use. They might perceive an
anomaly in their data and use the identifier they see to track it down.
True.
The relational model has views and snapshots, ie. named derived relation
variables, to address this very issue. It is revealing to consider the
candidate keys of these derived relation variables.
So that is not an issue for us. If such an anomoly were to arise,
which hopefully the design and proper management would prevent
No amount of design and proper management can eliminate human error or
malice.
True, which is why I like the IDENTITY fields in this case. By allowing the
DB to assign a unique key to the records in this particular table, I reduce
the human error component by one by not relying on a user to properly link
this record to others, or improperly break that link with a typo.
, we have a
level of DB users that could analyze the tables directly to solve the issue and hopefully provide a solution to prevent further anomolies.
These users see a different view of the data or perhaps a proper superset
of the "app users" view of the data. They, of course, can see the identifiers
they use.
True.
--
BV.
WebPorgmaster - www.IHeartMyPond.com
Work at Home, Save the Environment - www.amothersdream.com
"BenignVani lla" <bv@tibetanbeef garden.com> wrote in message
news:Wf******** ************@gi ganews.com...
"Bob Badour" <bb*****@golden .net> wrote in message
news:7q******** ************@go lden.net... "BenignVani lla" <bv@tibetanbeef garden.com> wrote in message
news:Ft******** ************@gi ganews.com...
"Bob Badour" <bb*****@golden .net> wrote in message
news:vt******** ************@go lden.net...
<snip>
> When the user of the dbms must track down an alleged anomaly in the data, > how does the user proceed?
That is a valid point. My answer would be that we have two levels of
users. The "app users" that never see the ID, would not be tracking such an
anomaly.
In other words, the "app users" use a view of the data with a different
identifier. They see the identifier they use. They might perceive an
anomaly in their data and use the identifier they see to track it down.
True.
The relational model has views and snapshots, ie. named derived relation
variables, to address this very issue. It is revealing to consider the
candidate keys of these derived relation variables.
So that is not an issue for us. If such an anomoly were to arise,
which hopefully the design and proper management would prevent
No amount of design and proper management can eliminate human error or
malice.
True, which is why I like the IDENTITY fields in this case. By allowing
the DB to assign a unique key to the records in this particular table, I
reduce the human error component by one by not relying on a user to properly link
this record to others, or improperly break that link with a typo.
I direct you back to my earlier suggestion to consider the candidate keys of
the named derived relation variables the "app users" see. From the
perspective of the "app users", you have not affected anything with respect
to forming proper references or identifiers, and you have introduced an
opportunity for human error on the part of the direct dbms users or
application programmers.
Note, I am not saying that one should never use an identity column or
introduce a simple surrogate; I am only trying to get you to recognize the
real consequences of the decision. Those consequences actually contradict
your statement above.
, we have a
level of DB users that could analyze the tables directly to solve the
issue and hopefully provide a solution to prevent further anomolies.
These users see a different view of the data or perhaps a proper
superset of the "app users" view of the data. They, of course, can see the
identifiers they use.
True.
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