VB(ish) replacement

[Dave Boland]

The other day I was asked if there is an open source replacement for VB6
that is cross-platform. I spent a little bit of time at Barnes-Noble
and looking at news groups, but don't have a good answer. Hope you can
help without geting into a language war. These will be for commercial
applications with a GUI.

What they seem to be looking for is:
1. High level language, but not necessarly VB compatible.
2. OOP
3. Reasonalble learning curve
4. Cross-platform
5. IDE and ability to graphically design windows.
6. Distribute programs as .exe's, so some sort of compiler needed.
7. Serial communications library (RS-232, 485, USB)
8. SNMP library
9. Good performance (not expected to be as fast as C/C++)
10. Windows are native to each O.S.
11. Database support of Access and MySQL

It looks like any of the three languages have most or all of what they
need, but I don't use scripting languages enough to give a good answer.

Dave,

[Tim Daneliuk]

Dave Boland wrote:

The other day I was asked if there is an open source replacement for VB6
that is cross-platform. I spent a little bit of time at Barnes-Noble
and looking at news groups, but don't have a good answer. Hope you can
help without geting into a language war. These will be for commercial
applications with a GUI.

What they seem to be looking for is:
1. High level language, but not necessarly VB compatible.
Python
2. OOP
Python
3. Reasonalble learning curve
Python
4. Cross-platform
Python
5. IDE and ability to graphically design windows.
Python + a variety of IDEs
6. Distribute programs as .exe's, so some sort of compiler needed.
Python + py2exe - but it is NOT compiled. For some level of
compilation, pysco is available.
7. Serial communications library (RS-232, 485, USB)
Dunno about Python, but I would guess "yes"
8. SNMP library
http://yapsnmp.sourceforge.net/intro.html
http://www.pycs.net/users/0000231/we...004/02/05.html
9. Good performance (not expected to be as fast as C/C++)
If you code it properly, yes.
10. Windows are native to each O.S.
Yes, if used with wxWindows as the GUI foundation
11. Database support of Access and MySQL
Yes, via odbc type stuff (I think)

It looks like any of the three languages have most or all of what they
need, but I don't use scripting languages enough to give a good answer.

Dave,

--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk tu****@tundraware.com
PGP Key: http://www.tundraware.com/PGP/

[Grant Edwards]

On 2004-07-20, Tim Daneliuk <tu****@tundraware.com> wrote:

7. Serial communications library (RS-232, 485, USB)

Dunno about Python, but I would guess "yes"

Yes, Python has a cross-platform serial library (pyserial).

RS-232 vs. RS-485 is strictly an electrical signal level
interface spec and has nothing to do with software.

I've no idea what one would want a USB library to do, so that's
pretty hard to answer.

--
Grant Edwards grante Yow! Hey, LOOK!! A pair of
at SIZE 9 CAPRI PANTS!! They
visi.com probably belong to SAMMY
DAVIS, JR.!!

[Larry Bates]

Others have answered most of the other questions.

11. Database support of Access and MySQL
Access databases can be accessed via ODBC,
DAO, or ADO interfaces on Windows. MySQL has
native interface from Python.

Questions you didn't ask:

12) Can interface to existing COM+ objects, write new
COM+ objects and write Windows services.

Python

13) Can write scripts, applications (console and GUI),
and web services with single language.

Python

14) Has extensive standard library to support email
(SMTP, IMAP), FTP, HTTP, logging, regular expressions,
arrays, and many more. Third party libraries for
imaging (Python Imaging Library), PDF generation
(ReportLab), Graphing (ReportLab Graphics) and
XML parsing (PyRXP by ReportLab). Just to name a
few.

Python

15) Easy to write C language extensions for language

Python

16) Code that you can actually understand when you
come back to read it a year later.

Python (priceless ;-)

You might want to take a look at the experience of
another company:

http://python.oreilly.com/news/disney_0201.html

HTH,
Larry Bates
Syscon, Inc.

"Dave Boland" <NO************@stny.rr.com> wrote in message
news:Fa*******************@twister.nyroc.rr.com... The other day I was asked if there is an open source replacement for VB6
that is cross-platform. I spent a little bit of time at Barnes-Noble
and looking at news groups, but don't have a good answer. Hope you can
help without geting into a language war. These will be for commercial
applications with a GUI.

What they seem to be looking for is:
1. High level language, but not necessarly VB compatible.
2. OOP
3. Reasonalble learning curve
4. Cross-platform
5. IDE and ability to graphically design windows.
6. Distribute programs as .exe's, so some sort of compiler needed.
7. Serial communications library (RS-232, 485, USB)
8. SNMP library
9. Good performance (not expected to be as fast as C/C++)
10. Windows are native to each O.S.
11. Database support of Access and MySQL

It looks like any of the three languages have most or all of what they
need, but I don't use scripting languages enough to give a good answer.

Dave,

[Scott Rubin]

Dave Boland wrote:

The other day I was asked if there is an open source replacement for VB6
that is cross-platform. I spent a little bit of time at Barnes-Noble
and looking at news groups, but don't have a good answer. Hope you can
help without geting into a language war. These will be for commercial
applications with a GUI.

What they seem to be looking for is:
1. High level language, but not necessarly VB compatible.
2. OOP
3. Reasonalble learning curve
4. Cross-platform
5. IDE and ability to graphically design windows.
6. Distribute programs as .exe's, so some sort of compiler needed.
7. Serial communications library (RS-232, 485, USB)
8. SNMP library
9. Good performance (not expected to be as fast as C/C++)
10. Windows are native to each O.S.
11. Database support of Access and MySQL

It looks like any of the three languages have most or all of what they
need, but I don't use scripting languages enough to give a good answer.

Dave,

I'm fairly certain you can use python and glade together to make cross
platform GTK+ guis in a graphical way. I'm also fairly certain that it
meets all your requirements. There might be a way to use glade with
other gtk supporting languages. Also, KDevelop I think can do the same
with Qt stuff, but I don't know for sure since I haven't used it in a
long time. Don't you have any programmers who can make guis the "real"
way instead of drawing them with a VB type interface? it's not that hard
if you draw them on paper with a pencil and plan them out first.

-Scott

[John J. Lee]

Dave Boland <NO************@stny.rr.com> writes:
[...]

What they seem to be looking for is:
1. High level language, but not necessarly VB compatible.
2. OOP
3. Reasonalble learning curve
4. Cross-platform
5. IDE and ability to graphically design windows.
6. Distribute programs as .exe's, so some sort of compiler needed.
7. Serial communications library (RS-232, 485, USB)
8. SNMP library
9. Good performance (not expected to be as fast as C/C++)
10. Windows are native to each O.S.
11. Database support of Access and MySQL

It looks like any of the three languages have most or all of what they
need, but I don't use scripting languages enough to give a good answer.

Can't speak for Ruby, but I'm fairly sure both Perl and Python do fine
on all points but 3.

Python does fine on the remaining point. Perl fails *badly* here:

http://www.google.com/groups?threadm...%2540pobox.com
I've used a fair number of programming languages. Perl is the only
one I'd unhesitatingly call 'pathological'. And I do speak as an
admirer of the language: before Python was around and well-supported,
it served an important purpose. Now, though, it fills a much-needed
gap <wink>
John

[Cameron Laird]

In article <87************@pobox.com>, John J. Lee <jj*@pobox.com> wrote:

Dave Boland <NO************@stny.rr.com> writes:
[...]

What they seem to be looking for is:
1. High level language, but not necessarly VB compatible.
2. OOP
3. Reasonalble learning curve
4. Cross-platform
5. IDE and ability to graphically design windows.
6. Distribute programs as .exe's, so some sort of compiler needed.
7. Serial communications library (RS-232, 485, USB)
8. SNMP library
9. Good performance (not expected to be as fast as C/C++)
10. Windows are native to each O.S.
11. Database support of Access and MySQL

It looks like any of the three languages have most or all of what they
need, but I don't use scripting languages enough to give a good answer.

Can't speak for Ruby, but I'm fairly sure both Perl and Python do fine
on all points but 3.

Python does fine on the remaining point. Perl fails *badly* here:

http://www.google.com/groups?threadm...%2540pobox.com
I've used a fair number of programming languages. Perl is the only
one I'd unhesitatingly call 'pathological'. And I do speak as an
admirer of the language: before Python was around and well-supported,
it served an important purpose. Now, though, it fills a much-needed
gap <wink>
John

I'm going to complexify the story slightly: I'm unconvinced about
the health of the SNMP facilities for Python and Ruby. On the other
hand, VB's offerings in that category also didn't impress me in the
past ...

It's possible some or all of this has improved a lot in the last
year. I personally wouldn't mind working with SNMP under Python,
because I'm confident I can get it to do what I need. It might
frustrate a newcomer, though ...

Moreover, I perceive incoherence in the combination of 4., 6., 7.,
and 10. When you talk about ".exe-s", I wonder what "cross-plat-
form" means to you. Similarly, you really, *really* don't want to
be thinking about USB and such; with any concern for cross-platform
maintenance, you just want to read to and write from serial devices.

My first instinct would be to choose Tcl. People are doing this
sort of work happily with each of Perl, Python, Ruby, Tcl, and even
other languages.

[Nick J Chackowsky]

John J. Lee wrote:

Dave Boland <NO************@stny.rr.com> writes:
[...]

5. IDE and ability to graphically design windows.

It looks like any of the three languages have most or all of what they
need, but I don't use scripting languages enough to give a good answer.

Can't speak for Ruby, but I'm fairly sure both Perl and Python do fine
on all points but 3.

Python does fine on the remaining point. Perl fails *badly* here:

http://www.google.com/groups?threadm...%2540pobox.com

John

John...
Regarding point 5: I'm another VBer, and the language itself
notwithstanding, I *love* VB's design & code IDE. Is there, in fact,
anything comparable for Python?

Nick

[Doug Holton]

Nick J Chackowsky wrote:

5. IDE and ability to graphically design windows.

Regarding point 5: I'm another VBer, and the language itself
notwithstanding, I *love* VB's design & code IDE. Is there, in fact,
anything comparable for Python?

Probably the closest thing would be QT Designer, which you can use with
PyQT. But to use that on Windows you'll need to purchase the IDE from
BlackAdder or else directly from Trolltech. It is free to use on Linux
(and see the free eric3 IDE for that platform). Here are some PyQT
resources: http://developers.coedit.net/QtKde

I'd still probably recommend wxpython for Windows development though.

[G. S. Hayes]

Nick J Chackowsky <me*************@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<i0*************@animal.nntpserver.com>...

John...
Regarding point 5: I'm another VBer, and the language itself
notwithstanding, I *love* VB's design & code IDE. Is there, in fact,
anything comparable for Python?

Check out glade + pyglade.

[Ron Stephens]

To John, Nick, and others,

I haven't used VB since one of the very early versions, but I can
appreciate, I think, how easy it is to lay out a GUI app using VB. I
just want to urge you to try PythonCard. I have found it about as easy
as you can imagine to create simple GUI apps using PythonCard.
Although not like VB, it does allow one to easily draw "forms" and
then associate the logic code with the forms and widgets. The learning
curve is very easy, and you really should try it.

I think Boa Constructor is similar in usage to VB (actually to Delphi,
it is said) and is a true GUI painter, code generator that can I think
handle big projects. For my use, it is too complex. PythonCard is
however, as easy as pie.

PythonCard at http://pythoncard.sourceforge.net/ must be tried to be
appreciated. Although not like VB (or perhpas anything else) the
PythonCard framework is a beautiful model.

Boa Constructor can be found at
http://boa-constructor.sourceforge.net/ and both projects are free and
open source.

[Tony C]

> John...

Regarding point 5: I'm another VBer, and the language itself
notwithstanding, I *love* VB's design & code IDE. Is there, in fact,
anything comparable for Python?

Nick

If there was a good (almost as mature as the VB iDE) VB-like IDE for
Python, I'm sure the language acceptance would skyrocket.
FWIW- there is a VB2Py project in sourceforge.

QT designer is the closest thing I've seen to VB, but is still very
crude and nowhere near as easy to use as the VBide.

However, the QT/Pqyt library is very nice!!

[G. S. Hayes]

sj*******@yahoo.com (G. S. Hayes) wrote in message news:<96**************************@posting.google. com>...

Nick J Chackowsky <me*************@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<i0*************@animal.nntpserver.com>...

John...
Regarding point 5: I'm another VBer, and the language itself
notwithstanding, I *love* VB's design & code IDE. Is there, in fact,
anything comparable for Python?

Check out glade + pyglade.

.... at http://glade.gnome.org/ (screenshots there as well)

[Joshua Kugler]

If you are looking to stay close to VB, here are some to look at:

http://hbasic.sourceforge.net/
http://gambas.sourceforge.net/

Or for something completely different:
http://www.naken.cc/vb2c/

http://www.gnome.org/projects/gb/
Gnome basic, now dead. However, mbas, the Mono Basic *is* alive and well,
and might be what you are looking for: http://www.go-mono.com/mbas.html
(site not accessible at time of post).

I may start a flame war with this, but from what I understand, VB is
actually a distant descendant of Ruby. So, that might tell you something.

j----- k-----

Dave Boland wrote:

The other day I was asked if there is an open source replacement for VB6
that is cross-platform. I spent a little bit of time at Barnes-Noble
and looking at news groups, but don't have a good answer. Hope you can
help without geting into a language war. These will be for commercial
applications with a GUI.

What they seem to be looking for is:
1. High level language, but not necessarly VB compatible.
2. OOP
3. Reasonalble learning curve
4. Cross-platform
5. IDE and ability to graphically design windows.
6. Distribute programs as .exe's, so some sort of compiler needed.
7. Serial communications library (RS-232, 485, USB)
8. SNMP library
9. Good performance (not expected to be as fast as C/C++)
10. Windows are native to each O.S.
11. Database support of Access and MySQL

It looks like any of the three languages have most or all of what they
need, but I don't use scripting languages enough to give a good answer.

Dave,