Linux/Python Issues

[MartinRinehart]

I went to Python.org, DL'd Python 2.5 source code per the usual
inadequate instructions and ran the make files successfully (sort of).
Python 2.5 works fine. But "from Tkinter import *" gets a "What's
Tkinter?" message. IDLE's no where to be found.

What's not in the instructions is what directory should I be in when I
download? Where should I put the ".bz2" file? What dir for running the
make files? At present I'm working on a Windows machine, endangering
what's left of my sanity.

I'm using Linspire, so Debian directories are probably the ones that
will get me up and running. Barring specific knowledge, even some good
guesses would be appreciated.

[Bjoern Schliessmann]

Ma************@ gmail.com wrote:

As a "solution" to the problem of wanting a program on my
computer, it sucks. On Windows I'll DL an install package,
"accept" a license agreement, click Next a few times (no, I can't
make a cup of coffee because the minute I step away the "Wizard"
will ask a question), ... With CNR the commitment is that I CAN
walk away. I do not know who should be responsible for putting
things in the warehouse.

The... maintainer perhaps? A.k.a. the distributor?

I do wish that the *n*x community would create some sensible
standards so the 'our distro doesn't put things where others do'
would stop being an issue.

There are certainly mory than fifty GNU/Linux and Unix flavours of
different versions which are all POSIX compatible, but not binary
compatible. Of Windows, there are very few versions which are
mostly binary compatible, and widely used. Do you think the Python
maintainers should create fifty different Python packages every
release? The common software "flow" is: developer =distributor =>
user. But due to some cool tools compiling isn't something one
can't learn by doing, since the developers already did the most for
you; more or less you just have to get your environment right
(dependencies) and hit "start". I admit that's nothing for the "I
just want it to work!!!11" kind of people, but those should stick
to better supported flavours.

Looking in "/usr/bin" and its brethren makes "c:\Program Files"
seem organized.

I'm afraid not, since mixing executables, libraries and data in an
unsorted directory tree is just horrible. POSIX compatible systems
usually sort everything in directories where it belongs
(/usr/bin, /usr/lib, /usr/share/*, ...) and employ a packet manager
to keep the system in a well-defined state. Self-compiled stuff can
be "incorporat ed" or just installed to the /usr/local subhierarchy.

The Windows way, contrarily, is:

- All program files go anywhere on the hard disk in a custom
directory tree. (Recently, they are often installed to something
like "Program Files" or a translated equivalent, luckily.)

- Most programs use a custom installer which alone has the task to
track files installed to the system; the system itself usually has
no knowledge about it (apart from how to call the uninstaller).
Dependency handling is completely up to the applications
themselves.

- Often, libraries and/or drivers are installed somewhere
in %WINDIR% and get lost ... no wonder Windows systems are commonly
reinstalled quite often compared to POSIX compatible systems.

Additionally, exotic or older program in Windows are often bundled
in a (today) malfunctioning installer. Older programs for POSIX
compatible OS are often available in source which often need only
few adaptations to compile properly.

I've no interest in mastering the art of installing Linux.

I'd appreciate if you weren't complaining about things you didn't
know ...

Regards,
Björn

--
BOFH excuse #297:

Too many interrupts

[bruno.desthuilliers]

On 21 fév, 13:57, Paul Boddie <[e-mail] g.ukwrote:

On 21 Feb, 13:04, MartinRineh...@ gmail.com wrote:

<OT digression="gen too advocacy">

re DLing source

As a "solution" to the problem of wanting a program on my computer, it
sucks.

It doesn't suck if you're just installing one program, but if there
are a lot of dependencies it can quickly suck, yes. Even with systems
that comprehensively manage dependencies like Gentoo's Portage (and
unlike language-specific solutions such as easy_install and the CPAN
tools) the convenience can become quickly overwhelmed by practical
concerns such as whether your computer has enough CPU time available
to compile all the updates coming in.

Hmm... I'm actually an happy gentoo user, and my computer is now
something like five years old. So yes, sure, I do not recompile
OpenOffice everyday, but with ccache installed, keeping the sytem up
to date is definitively not a problem.
</OT>