Guido at Google

[JB]

It seems that our master Guido van Rossum had an offer from google and
he accepted it!!

long life to Guido & Goole ! many things to come ;)

ju²

[Renato]

For what is worth,
all of the native administration tools of RedHat (all versions) and
Fedora Core are written in python (system-config-* and/or
redhat-config-* ). And even more importantly, yum (the official
software package manager for Fedora and RHEL) and Anaconda (OS
installer) are written in Python, too.

So RedHat, too, has a big interest in Python :-)

--
Renato Ramonda

[Graham Fawcett]

Cameron Laird wrote:

In article <11************ **********@g14g 2000cwa.googleg roups.com>,
<bo****@gmail.c om> wrote:
.

Well, this may be the CPython way of open source but I don't know if
that is "Open source" in general. Another way is that if someone(or
group) don't like the current state of a project, they fork. I don't
know if that is possible in the context of python, and programming
language in general. Can it still be called python ?

.
While I don't understand the question, it might be pertinent to
observe that, among open-source development projects, Python is
unusual for the *large* number of "forks" or alternative imple-
mentations it has supported through the years <URL:
http://phaseit.net/claird/comp.lang....varieties.html >.

....though not a lot of forks/variations that have persisted past the
early-alpha phase. Many of those projects are stale or defunct, alas.

Personally, I'd point out Scheme as an "open" HLL with a vast number of
implementations . But I guess it helps when the language itself is a
spec and there's no canonical implementation.

This all reminds me of one my favourite quotes from python-list of
yore:

<Thaddeus Olczyk> So python will fork if ActiveState starts
polluting it?

<Brian Quinlan> I find it more relevant to speculate on whether
Python would fork if the merpeople start invading our cities
riding on the backs of giant king crabs. [1]

Merry _('Christmas') to all,
Graham

----
[1] http://mail.python.org/pipermail/pyt...il/037142.html

[Graham Fawcett]

Steve Holden wrote:

Nicola Musatti wrote:
Of course, I'm going on vacation next week and there was talk
about a one-way ticket to Mexico. The real question is will they let me *back* in? :-)

I would be careful coming back across the border. I heard that the PSU

[suspicous premature end-of-sentence]

Steve, I hope that the PSU is just jamming your comms, and not holding
you captive over the holidays for your transgressions against the
cabal!

Graham

[Steve Holden]

bo****@gmail.co m wrote:

Cameron Laird wrote:

In article <11************ **********@g14g 2000cwa.googleg roups.com>,
<bo****@gmail.c om> wrote:
.
.
.

Well, this may be the CPython way of open source but I don't know if
that is "Open source" in general. Another way is that if someone(or
group) don't like the current state of a project, they fork. I don't
know if that is possible in the context of python, and programming
language in general. Can it still be called python ?

.
.
.
While I don't understand the question, it might be pertinent to
observe that, among open-source development projects, Python is
unusual for the *large* number of "forks" or alternative imple-
mentations it has supported through the years <URL:
http://phaseit.net/claird/comp.lang....varieties.html >.

The question is, can anyone just fork a new one using the python name,
as part of the project, without the permission from the foundation ?
Say for example, anyone want to implement java needs permission from
Sun(or is it javasoft), if I rememeber correctly. Therefore, the only
way to make change to java the language is to convince Sun, very
similar to the model of Python. But many open source project is not
using this model.

Well the name "Python" is a trade mark of the Python Software
Foundation. So if you invent another language and start calling it
"Python" just to get an audience you should expect to receive a
cease-and-desist letter.

regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden [phone] [phone]
Holden Web LLC www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006 www.python.org/pycon/

[bonono]

Steve Holden wrote:

Well the name "Python" is a trade mark of the Python Software
Foundation. So if you invent another language and start calling it
"Python" just to get an audience you should expect to receive a
cease-and-desist letter.

That is what I expect but don't know to what extend. Can it be called
PythonModified like when people enhance vi so there is vim and nvi etc
?

What about the copyright in CPython ? Can I someone take the codebase
and make modifications then call it Sneak ?

[Carsten Haese]

On Thu, 2005-12-22 at 08:18, bo****@gmail.co m wrote:

Cameron Laird wrote:

In article <11************ **********@g14g 2000cwa.googleg roups.com>,
<bo****@gmail.c om> wrote:
.
.
.

Well, this may be the CPython way of open source but I don't know if
that is "Open source" in general. Another way is that if someone(or
group) don't like the current state of a project, they fork. I don't
know if that is possible in the context of python, and programming
language in general. Can it still be called python ?

.
.
.
While I don't understand the question, it might be pertinent to
observe that, among open-source development projects, Python is
unusual for the *large* number of "forks" or alternative imple-
mentations it has supported through the years <URL:
http://phaseit.net/claird/comp.lang....varieties.html >.

The question is, can anyone just fork a new one using the python name,
as part of the project, without the permission from the foundation ?
Say for example, anyone want to implement java needs permission from
Sun(or is it javasoft), if I rememeber correctly. Therefore, the only
way to make change to java the language is to convince Sun, very
similar to the model of Python. But many open source project is not
using this model.

Most of your question can be answered by reading the license. Section 3
of version 2 of the PSF license states:
"""
3. In the event Licensee prepares a derivative work that is based on
or incorporates Python or any part thereof, and wants to make
the derivative work available to others as provided herein, then
Licensee hereby agrees to include in any such work a brief summary of
the changes made to Python.
"""

In other words, you can change Python to your liking and distribute the
changed version, as long as you tell people how it differs from Python.
Since the changed version is different from Python, calling it Python
would be a) boneheaded and b) as Steve Holden points out, a trademark
violation. Note that section 7 states that "This License Agreement does
not grant permission to use PSF trademarks or trade name in a trademark
sense to endorse or promote products or services of Licensee, or any
third party" and the Python name is a trademark of the PSF.

So, if there is something you don't like about Python, you have two
choices:
1) Seek consensus with the Python community and have your changes
accepted into the "official" Python version, or
2) Fork Python into something else with a different name. If the
different name contains 'Python', you'll probably have to ask PSF for
permission. In any case, as outlined above, you have have to state that
the fork is based on Python and summarize how it differs from Python.

Hope this clears things up,

Carsten.

[bonono]

Carsten Haese wrote:

So, if there is something you don't like about Python, you have two
choices:
1) Seek consensus with the Python community and have your changes
accepted into the "official" Python version, or
2) Fork Python into something else with a different name. If the
different name contains 'Python', you'll probably have to ask PSF for
permission. In any case, as outlined above, you have have to state that
the fork is based on Python and summarize how it differs from Python.

Hope this clears things up,

Thanks, though I don't have urgent need(if at all) to see changes in it.

[Steve Holden]

bo****@gmail.co m wrote:

Steve Holden wrote:

Well the name "Python" is a trade mark of the Python Software
Foundation. So if you invent another language and start calling it
"Python" just to get an audience you should expect to receive a
cease-and-desist letter.

That is what I expect but don't know to what extend. Can it be called
PythonModified like when people enhance vi so there is vim and nvi etc
?

What about the copyright in CPython ? Can I someone take the codebase
and make modifications then call it Sneak ?

Far answers to this and all other (as far as I can determine)
hypothetical questions please refer to the license.

regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden [phone] [phone]
Holden Web LLC www.holdenweb.com
PyCon TX 2006 www.python.org/pycon/

[Thomas Wouters]

On Thu, 22 Dec 2005 06:18:52 -0800, Graham Fawcett wrote:

Steve Holden wrote:

I would be careful coming back across the border. I heard that the PSU

[suspicous premature end-of-sentence]

Steve, I hope that the PSU is just jamming your comms, and not holding
you captive over the holidays for your transgressions against the
cabal!

No, you don't understand. There is no PSU, and Steven doesn't know about
them (since it doesn't exist), and he nor I were held captive by the PSU,
since it doesn't exist. Nor is there, in fact, a PSU. Please stop
spreading rumours about the PSU. Not that you would be hunted down and
silenced forcefully by the PSU, which doesn't exist, if you continued to
spread such malignant lies about the existance of the non-existant PSU,
which doesn't exist, of course. Because it doesn't exist. So it wouldn't
be able to do that. Trust me.

Not-brainwashed-after-a-long-but-utterly-unsuspicious-and-PSU-unrelated-absense'ly
y'rs,
--
Thomas Wouters <th****@xs4all. net>

Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread!

[Peter Hansen]

Graham Fawcett wrote:

Steve Holden wrote:

Nicola Musatti wrote:
Of course, I'm going on vacation next week and there was talk
about a one-way ticket to Mexico. The real question is will they let me *back* in? :-)

I would be careful coming back across the border. I heard that the PSU

[suspicous premature end-of-sentence]

Steve, I hope that the PSU is just jamming your comms, and not holding
you captive over the holidays for your transgressions against the
cabal!

At about the same instant that he sent that message to group, I was
trying to call Steve on Google Talk and he suddenly went offline. I
haven't seen him since.

While I'm worried for him personally, all I can say is that I think it's
a darn good thing for the community...

....I mean, that he's not the PyCon conference chair this year!

-Peter