Does Python compete with Java?

[kk]

I read this mailing list fairly often, and I am always amazed at what
I learn (even not related to Python). I am relatively new to Python.
I make my living developing mostly in Java. Python was a "discovery"
I made a couple of years ago, and I love the language, but only get to
use it at home for hobbies.

With all the recent news:
- ESR tells Sun to open Java, or be relegated into obscurity by
Python, Ruby, and Perl.
- Project mono (C# compiler) is touted to be the next great thing in
Linux, and will be the dominate language. (by it's creator, of
coarse).
- This past weekend, Sun signs deal with devil (oops... Microsoft).
Now Java "openness" seems to have taken a very large step backwards!

I'd like to know if you guys think Python really has a chance to
compete with Java, .NET, and any other commercially backed language.

The reason I ask is I think it is important to have a "popular"
well-supported Open Source language to compete with the big players.
PHP seems to have some momentum in popularity, but I much prefer
Python as a language. Python has much to offer over Java, VB, etc...
Maybe the best chance it has is to ride on the coat-tails of .NET
(Python.NET) and the JVM (Jython). Interested to hear your comments.

[Chris Herborth]

Harald Massa wrote:

Roy Smith <ro*@panix.co m> wrote in news:roy-094613.21022405 042004
@reader1.panix. com:

http://www-users.cs.york.ac.uk/~susan/joke/foot.htm

They don't have one for Python, but I expect it would be something like
this:

I think the most common solution is:

How to Shoot Yourself In the Foot

Python
you discover that Guido used his time machine to shoot you in the foot
years ago

My experience:

Post to comp.lang.pytho n:

"I'm looking for a good scripting language, and Python's got some great
features, but that syntactically-relevant whitespace thing just seems wrong..."

Replies:

"Don't worry about it, in practice you'll see that you write code that way
anyway and it's very natural..."

Me:

"I don't know..."

[Wanders off for a few months. Returns.]

"Python rules! Best scripting language EVAR!"

--
Chris Herborth ch****@cryptoca rd.com
Documentation Overlord, CRYPTOCard Corp. http://www.cryptocard.com/
Never send a monster to do the work of an evil scientist.
Postatem obscuri lateris nescitis.

[Jacek Generowicz]

Chris Herborth <ch****@cryptoc ard.com> writes:

One of Python's most awesome features (IMHO at least) is that you can
fire up an interactive interpreter while you're writing your code, and
try things out as you go... using this technique, I've unit tested
methods and algorithms interactively and ended up with useful,
non-trivial applications that run and work properly the first time.
With compiled languages (Java, C#, C++), I find I'm writing a bit of ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^ code, taking a break to compile it, figuring out how to unit test the
method... Python saves me a huge amount of time in the prototype and
development cycles.

Please note that this has nothing to do with compilation per-se. There
are languages with to-native-binary compilers which give you all the
instant turnaround flexibility that Python does.

Indeed, there are even some development environments for the languages
you mention which try to provide a similar experience.

[Roy Smith]

Chris Herborth <ch****@cryptoc ard.com> writes:

With compiled languages (Java, C#, C++), I find I'm writing a bit of
code, taking a break to compile it, figuring out how to unit test the
method... Python saves me a huge amount of time in the prototype and
development cycles.

Jacek Generowicz <ja************ **@cern.ch> wrote: Please note that this has nothing to do with compilation per-se. There
are languages with to-native-binary compilers which give you all the
instant turnaround flexibility that Python does.

Even more interesting is the fact that Java and Python both have very
similar architectures (similar enough, in fact, that things like Jython
are possible). Both compile your source code text into an intermediate
"byte code" form, and both then run this intermediate form on a virtual
machine.

The difference is that Java exposes the compilation step to the user
while Python hides it. If you really wanted to, you could hack up a
"Python compiler" which takes .py files, imports them to force
generation of the corresponding .pyc files, and then exits without
executing anything. You could then execute the .pyc files in a distinct
"execute phase". Not sure why you would want to do that, though :-)

[Peter Hansen]

Roy Smith wrote:

The difference is that Java exposes the compilation step to the user
while Python hides it. If you really wanted to, you could hack up a
"Python compiler" which takes .py files, imports them to force
generation of the corresponding .pyc files, and then exits without
executing anything. You could then execute the .pyc files in a distinct
"execute phase". Not sure why you would want to do that, though :-)

python -c "import py_compile as p; p.compile('mymo dule.py')"

[A. Lloyd Flanagan]

Greg Ewing <gr**@cosc.cant erbury.ac.nz> wrote in message news:<c4******* ******@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>...

I think it's a *good* thing. Python is succeeding very well
by just existing and actually being well designed and useful,
as opposed to having a large company's marketing machine trying
to tell everyone that it is.

Very true. In addition, I think python will gain a lot of
"mind-share" as more and more popular applications are written in
python.

[Josiah Carlson]

> instance. Also, can "and", "or", "not" etc. be overloaded?

No one has said it yet, so here's my advice, check the operator module
for names you should call your 'overloaded' operators, the ones with
__name__ are ones that can be 'overloaded'.
http://www.python.org/doc/current/li...-operator.html

- Josiah

[kk]

I was responding to your point made earlier.

I was the one that started the thread, look again.

Peter Hansen <pe***@engcorp. com> wrote in message news:<5K******* *************@p owergate.ca>...

kk wrote:

That is exactly my point!

Uh, sorry, but what point? The email address and initials you
are using here (kk********@yah oo.com and kk) have not posted
before in this thread, as far as I can see. So who are you? :-)

-Peter

[Peter Hansen]

kk wrote:

Peter Hansen <pe***@engcorp. com> wrote:

kk wrote:

That is exactly my point!
Uh, sorry, but what point? The email address and initials you
are using here (kk********@yah oo.com and kk) have not posted
before in this thread, as far as I can see. So who are you? :-)

I was responding to your point made earlier.

I was the one that started the thread, look again.

Ah, thanks. Mozilla had dropped the earlier messages, but Google
Groups helped me out.

And yes, I see that that was exactly your point. :-)

-Peter

[R.Marquez]

> I would hope that someday Python would be a "tool" that "most"

developers would want to have in their "tool box".

The day "most" developers use Python is the day it stops being a
competitive advantage. ;)

Seriously, if you are starting a company with a good product idea in
mind, Python would be an excelent choice to get you going. (Wasn't a
certain search engine company started that way?)

-Ruben