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Where is Postgesql ? - MYSQL SURPRISES WITH MAXDB / MySQL appliance forLinux arrives

P: n/a
It would appear that MySQL is making great strides into the commercial and
even the enterprise arena.

I am not seeing the same news coverage being said about Postgresql.
I believe Postgresql has been a much better rdbms than MySQL for a long
time, so then why has not Postgresql grabbed the commercial and enterprise
arena before MySQL did?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SEARCHDATABASE.COM | Database Industry News and Advice
November 20, 2003
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

MYSQL SURPRISES WITH MAXDB | SearchEnterpriseLinux.com

MySQL isn't just an inexpensive data store any more. It's gone
mission-critical, says CEO Marten Mickos, who adds that his company
is capable of servicing and supporting an enterprise's database needs
and still fit neatly alongside Oracle and other big database players.

For the full details, click:
http://www.searchenterpriselinux.com...ml?track=NL-76

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

MySQL appliance for Linux arrives:

"The product is highly reliable, very fast, and straightforward to use,"
Robert Frances Group's Robinson said. "The company is engaging in a number
of partnerships (Pogo and SAP) both to enhance its own product and to
increase its level of commercial support. Commercial support is critical to
increasing the number of enterprise deployments of MySQL, and the company
and its partners have done an admirable job of addressing this issue."

http://searchenterpriselinux.techtar...913719,00.html

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Nov 12 '05 #1
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12 Replies


P: n/a
Ma**********@dom.com writes:
I am not seeing the same news coverage being said about Postgresql.


MySQL AB recently got ~ $20M in venture funding, and they are investing
large chunks of it in marketing. We just have to weather the ad campaign.
At the rate they're going they'll be through that money soon ;-)

regards, tom lane

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Nov 12 '05 #2

P: n/a
Tom Lane wrote:
Ma**********@dom.com writes:
I am not seeing the same news coverage being said about Postgresql.


MySQL AB recently got ~ $20M in venture funding, and they are investing
large chunks of it in marketing. We just have to weather the ad campaign.
At the rate they're going they'll be through that money soon ;-)


I was wondering what they are giving people who ask these days for
MaxDB? Does that product exist or is even out there as a BETA yet? All I
have seen so far where some vague statements that it will be based on
some old SAPDB code and maybe pieces of old MySQL technology, but mostly
be new development.

I think a couple press people got fairly confused out there and are
reporting attributes that are planned for some future product as being
available in the current MySQL 4.x product.

Not sure that was intended, but nice marketing job anyway.
Jan

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Nov 12 '05 #3

P: n/a
On Fri, Nov 21, 2003 at 04:00:18PM -0500, Jan Wieck wrote:
I was wondering what they are giving people who ask these days for
MaxDB? Does that product exist or is even out there as a BETA yet? All I
have seen so far where some vague statements that it will be based on
some old SAPDB code and maybe pieces of old MySQL technology, but mostly
be new development.


IIRC the press release mentioned that MaxDB will have MySQL compatibility
"soon", so it doesn't have it now. Maybe it's just the SAP DB code ...

--
Alvaro Herrera (<alvherre[@]dcc.uchile.cl>)
Oh, oh, las chicas galacianas, lo harán por las perlas,
ˇY las de Arrakis por el agua! Pero si buscas damas
Que se consuman como llamas, ˇPrueba una hija de Caladan! (Gurney Halleck)

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Nov 12 '05 #4

P: n/a
Alvaro Herrera Munoz wrote:
On Fri, Nov 21, 2003 at 04:00:18PM -0500, Jan Wieck wrote:
I was wondering what they are giving people who ask these days for
MaxDB? Does that product exist or is even out there as a BETA yet? All I
have seen so far where some vague statements that it will be based on
some old SAPDB code and maybe pieces of old MySQL technology, but mostly
be new development.


IIRC the press release mentioned that MaxDB will have MySQL compatibility
"soon", so it doesn't have it now. Maybe it's just the SAP DB code ...


That could be. Then the question becomes, what will happen to the
existing MySQL 4.0 product when they have that compatibility and how
will the MaxDB licensing satisfy existing MySQL users? And of course,
how will that thing perform in the MySQL compatibility mode?
Jan

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Nov 12 '05 #5

P: n/a
As far as I'm aware, MAXDB is completely different from MySQL, although
it's sold by the same company. It's basically SAP's DB, which is really
just a fork off of Adabas D, which has been a mainframe database for a
long time.

So, it really has nothing to do with MySQL, just the MySQL company.

I looked into SAPDB once a long time ago. It has several good features,
including:

* Oracle 7 compatibility mode
* Several data warehousing enhancements
* My favorite - TABLESPACES!!

It was near impossible to install, but seemed to work a lot like Oracle.
Just my impression.

Again, this has nothing to do with the MySQL product. Also, MySQL has a
lot pbigger budget for PR than PG.

Jon

On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 Ma**********@dom.com wrote:
It would appear that MySQL is making great strides into the commercial and
even the enterprise arena.

I am not seeing the same news coverage being said about Postgresql.
I believe Postgresql has been a much better rdbms than MySQL for a long
time, so then why has not Postgresql grabbed the commercial and enterprise
arena before MySQL did?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SEARCHDATABASE.COM | Database Industry News and Advice
November 20, 2003
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

MYSQL SURPRISES WITH MAXDB | SearchEnterpriseLinux.com

MySQL isn't just an inexpensive data store any more. It's gone
mission-critical, says CEO Marten Mickos, who adds that his company
is capable of servicing and supporting an enterprise's database needs
and still fit neatly alongside Oracle and other big database players.

For the full details, click:
http://www.searchenterpriselinux.com...ml?track=NL-76

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

MySQL appliance for Linux arrives:

"The product is highly reliable, very fast, and straightforward to use,"
Robert Frances Group's Robinson said. "The company is engaging in a number
of partnerships (Pogo and SAP) both to enhance its own product and to
increase its level of commercial support. Commercial support is critical to
increasing the number of enterprise deployments of MySQL, and the company
and its partners have done an admirable job of addressing this issue."

http://searchenterpriselinux.techtar...913719,00.html

---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
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(send "unregister YourEmailAddressHere" to ma*******@postgresql.org)

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Nov 12 '05 #6

P: n/a
[sNip]
* My favorite - TABLESPACES!!

[sNip]

This is one feature I dearly wished PostgreSQL had because it would
allow for some additional performance tuning options.

One thing I really liked about Oracle's Table Spaces was that I could
specify a full path to it and the entire thing was in one file which could
easily be copied to a different OS and the same version of Oracle would
just use it without any problems.

The other thing I really liked about Table Spaces is that Oracle had a
tool called "OCOPY" which would make a duplicate of it (even while live)
frozen at that moment without interfering with live transactions, thus
backups could be made at any time from the copies of the files. I usually
created a subdirectory called "backups" and used OCopy to put them there.

If a future version of PostgreSQL could use Table Spaces instead of a
group of individual files in the "base" directory (as it does now), then I
believe it would add a whole new dimension to performance tuning (in
addition to other things such as table, index, etc., size management).

--
Randolf Richardson - rr@8x.ca
Inter-Corporate Computer & Network Services, Inc.
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
http://www.8x.ca/

This message originated from within a secure, reliable,
high-performance network ... a Novell NetWare network.

Nov 12 '05 #7

P: n/a
jo*****@eskimo.com (Jonathan Bartlett) writes:
As far as I'm aware, MAXDB is completely different from MySQL,
although it's sold by the same company. It's basically SAP's DB,
which is really just a fork off of Adabas D, which has been a
mainframe database for a long time.

So, it really has nothing to do with MySQL, just the MySQL company.


MySQL AB got about $19M of venture capital to take over development of
"SAPDB," which represents rather a lot of 'nothing.'

What will happen in the integration of the product lines is a Really
Big Question.

- If it succeeds, it shows how impoverished the "old" product was;

- If it fails, it will be a company-killing disaster for them that
will reflect badly across the whole 'open source' community.

The latter would injure the credibility of PostgreSQL in the wider
community, despite the fact you or I might imagine this to be
irrelevant.
--
"cbbrowne","@","libertyrms.info"
<http://dev6.int.libertyrms.com/>
Christopher Browne
(416) 646 3304 x124 (land)
Nov 12 '05 #8

P: n/a
[sNip]
What will happen in the integration of the product lines is a Really
Big Question.

- If it succeeds, it shows how impoverished the "old" product was;

- If it fails, it will be a company-killing disaster for them that
will reflect badly across the whole 'open source' community.
The open source community will survive. If they don't play their
cards right, then MySQL could lose popularity fast and you'll know this is
the case because tools and scripts for converting away from it to other
database engines will become both popular and visible in a very short
period of time.

Aside from that, I don't see how the individual actions of one
organization that has been charging for open source software can possibly
reflect on all those projects which are totally free, such as PostgreSQL,
Druid, Apache, and the countless others -- when people think of open source
they don't think of MySQL first, they think of the real stars such as the
Apache Group and SourceForge.Net as great examples (although I still
haven't been able to locate the source code for SourceForge.Net).
The latter would injure the credibility of PostgreSQL in the wider
community, despite the fact you or I might imagine this to be
irrelevant.


What do you base your conclusion on?

From my perspective MySQL and PostgreSQL are completely different
projects (for starters they even use different licensing schemes -- BSD v.
GPL) that are in competition. Since PostgreSQL stands on its own without
any dependencies on MySQL, I don't see any reason why PostgreSQL would
suffer in any way if MySQL came to an end; if anything, the marketshare for
all database engines will increase as a result of more awareness of other
open source database engines due to users and developers searching for
alternatives.

--
Randolf Richardson - rr@8x.ca
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada

Please do not eMail me directly when responding
to my postings in the newsgroups.
Nov 12 '05 #9

P: n/a
Randolf Richardson wrote:
From my perspective MySQL and PostgreSQL are completely different
projects (for starters they even use different licensing schemes -- BSD v.
GPL) that are in competition. Since PostgreSQL stands on its own without
any dependencies on MySQL, I don't see any reason why PostgreSQL would
suffer in any way if MySQL came to an end;


The headlines that "Jack and Jill Wall Street" will be reading in the
nightmarish outcome of "something bad" happening to MySQL will not be
"MySQL.com Fails To Migrate To SAPDB", it will be "Open Source Database
Disaster". The article will spin the story into rhetoric about how this
team of hackers failed to accomplish the simple task of taking code from
an ancient mainframe database system and making it work.... with the
implication woven in that if open source/free software programmers can't
even get old software to work, how can they get new software to work?

Jack and Jill Wall Street only read the headlines*. They rarely if ever
read the first paragraph, and only the smallest fraction of them read
the whole article. Out of that miniscule fraction, the ones who
actually do any groundwork of their own to figure out what the newspaper
was talking about, are yourselves and myself.

Combine that with the newspapers' habit of writing headlines to sell
newspapers, rather than tell the truth, and you can see where any
undesirable outcome in an open source project will lead. Especially with
"open source is bad" being topic-du-jour what with SCO vs World going on
right now.

Anyone who actually works with computers (as opposed to accomplishes
their work using computers) is more likely to understand that there's
more to any problem or statement than just the words. If we heard a
story about "Is Your Car And Incinerator On Wheels?", we'd be more
likely to think, "what are they on about?" - Jack and Jill Wall Street
will be thinking, "what if my car *is* an incinerator on wheels?".

Once you come to the realisation that people are not inherently good or
evil, they are just (as a whole) inherently stupid**, the whole world
starts to make a lot more sense.

Alex

* I'm going to cop out here and say "I forget where these figures come
from" - but in truth, it's just that Google can't remember for me ;)
Check out how most people recommend teaching kids to read newspapers,
and you'll find out why people develop bad habits like forming opinions
from headlines!

** In any sufficiently large group of people, the average intelligence
tends towards the minimum. I can't remember whose axiom that was... but
it refers (more or less) to the fact that in a group, people want to
conform, and conformity means not asking questions, which means
believing whatever you're told, which means that you're being stupid.
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Nov 12 '05 #10

P: n/a
>> From my perspective MySQL and PostgreSQL are completely different
projects (for starters they even use different licensing schemes -- BSD
v. GPL) that are in competition. Since PostgreSQL stands on its own
without any dependencies on MySQL, I don't see any reason why
PostgreSQL would suffer in any way if MySQL came to an end;
The headlines that "Jack and Jill Wall Street" will be reading in the
nightmarish outcome of "something bad" happening to MySQL will not be
"MySQL.com Fails To Migrate To SAPDB", it will be "Open Source Database
Disaster". The article will spin the story into rhetoric about how this
team of hackers failed to accomplish the simple task of taking code from
an ancient mainframe database system and making it work.... with the
implication woven in that if open source/free software programmers can't
even get old software to work, how can they get new software to work?


Some concern about violence from the open source community has already
been reported, but I haven't seen any evidence of negative impact resulting
from this, so I remain skeptical:

Embattled SCO Hires Bodyguards for Executives
http://www.linuxinsider.com/perl/story/32223.html
Jack and Jill Wall Street only read the headlines*. They rarely if ever
read the first paragraph, and only the smallest fraction of them read
the whole article. Out of that miniscule fraction, the ones who
actually do any groundwork of their own to figure out what the newspaper
was talking about, are yourselves and myself.
Here are some "damaging headlines" which I don't believe have done any
damage at all to the open source communities of the world:

Microsoft engaged in worldwide anti-Linux smarm offensive
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=6627

Open source fans 'have picked all the wrong fights...
...in all the wrong places'
http://www.silicon.com/software/os/0...9116877,00.htm

SCO Escalates Linux Legal Battle
http://www.internetwk.com/breakingNe...Article.jhtml?
articleID=16101237

I suspect that the MySQL headline you're predicting (hypothetically
assuming it does happen) will have about as much effect as these have.
Combine that with the newspapers' habit of writing headlines to sell
newspapers, rather than tell the truth, and you can see where any
undesirable outcome in an open source project will lead. Especially with
"open source is bad" being topic-du-jour what with SCO vs World going on
right now.
I'm laughing right now, but not because I disagree with you, but
because I just posted something similar to this earlier this morning in the
SpamCop.Net newsgroups that points out how misleading the media is for the
purpose of winning the ratings game.

I suspect you would agree with me if I were to tell you that the media
is a regular contributor to the problems we face in society these days.
Anyone who actually works with computers (as opposed to accomplishes
their work using computers) is more likely to understand that there's
more to any problem or statement than just the words. If we heard a
story about "Is Your Car And Incinerator On Wheels?", we'd be more
likely to think, "what are they on about?" - Jack and Jill Wall Street
will be thinking, "what if my car *is* an incinerator on wheels?".
Good point. But awareness of misinformation in the media these days
has been growing by leaps and bounds, especially in the computer industry,
although the headlines still do have a very strong effect I believe this
will eventually shift into large numbers of people moving from not trusting
the press to hating it.
Once you come to the realisation that people are not inherently good or
evil, they are just (as a whole) inherently stupid**, the whole world
starts to make a lot more sense.
I've known this for about as long as I can remember. I just hope you
haven't misread me as being one of those "black and white" thinkers.

With regards to being inherently stupid, I definitely agree to a
certain extent as this is something I observe on an almost daily basis in
dealing with the general public (e.g., bad [motor vehicle] drivers who do
stupid things like turning right when signalling left).

[sNip] Check out how most people recommend teaching kids to read newspapers,
and you'll find out why people develop bad habits like forming opinions
from headlines!
The only exception I would make to this are the "Comics" pages. ;-)
** In any sufficiently large group of people, the average intelligence
tends towards the minimum. I can't remember whose axiom that was... but
it refers (more or less) to the fact that in a group, people want to
conform, and conformity means not asking questions, which means
believing whatever you're told, which means that you're being stupid.


That's "gullibility" not "stupidity." People can be both intelligent
and gullible at the same time, but I do find that those who aren't well
versed in socializing with others, or have a language or communications
barrier, tend to be more gullible.

--
Randolf Richardson - rr@8x.ca
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada

Please do not eMail me directly when responding
to my postings in the newsgroups.
Nov 12 '05 #11

P: n/a
Clinging to sanity, Randolf Richardson <rr@8x.ca> mumbled into her beard:
Aside from that, I don't see how the individual actions of one
organization that has been charging for open source software can
possibly reflect on all those projects which are totally free


It most certainly would, in InfoWeek, and other such "sources of
journalism" which happen to get read by a whole lot of Pointy-Haired
Boss types.

The point isn't of how YOU see it, but rather of how it would be seen
by the people that make budget decisions based only on a minimal
understanding of technical matters and a liberal dose of whatever they
see in Gartner reports and other weekly 'rags.' For better or worse,
that perspective has a good deal of influence.
--
let name="cbbrowne" and tld="acm.org" in String.concat "@" [name;tld];;
http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/spiritual.html
"Jeez, got me. Unix is sorta like Heroin, It feels good for about 5
minutes a day and horrible the rest of the time." -- Jim O'Dell
Nov 12 '05 #12

P: n/a
>> Aside from that, I don't see how the individual actions of one
organization that has been charging for open source software can
possibly reflect on all those projects which are totally free


It most certainly would, in InfoWeek, and other such "sources of
journalism" which happen to get read by a whole lot of Pointy-Haired
Boss types.

The point isn't of how YOU see it, but rather of how it would be seen
by the people that make budget decisions based only on a minimal
understanding of technical matters and a liberal dose of whatever they
see in Gartner reports and other weekly 'rags.' For better or worse,
that perspective has a good deal of influence.


So, in other words, the human race hasn't actually evolved beyond the
generalized prejudices to the point of being destructive? Oh wait, I see
your point now that I consider who's in power at the White House.

--
Randolf Richardson - rr@8x.ca
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada

Please do not eMail me directly when responding
to my postings in the newsgroups.
Nov 12 '05 #13

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