Fundamental Question

[Steve]

I want to learn PHP. To date all I've used is Frontpage. What is the
first step? Should I move to Dreamweaver or something else, then get
into PHP?

Thanks,

Steve

[Tom Thackrey]

On 7-Oct-2003, st**********@mypcpro.com (Steve) wrote:

I want to learn PHP. To date all I've used is Frontpage. What is the
first step? Should I move to Dreamweaver or something else, then get
into PHP?

One key to PHP is a good understanding of HTML, start there. PHP provides a
way to make the HTML that the browser sees dynamic. It can display different
data or even pages depending on user input or other factors.

Dreamweaver, Frontpage, etc generate HTML and are useful for designing the
look of a web site.
When you want to add server side functionality, PHP is a great choice. If
you understand HTML you can use tools, like Frontpage, to create the pages
and PHP to provide the database interface or form processing or whatever.

--
Tom Thackrey
www.creative-light.com
tom (at) creative (dash) light (dot) com
do NOT send email to ja*********@willglen.net (it's reserved for spammers)

[Geoff Berrow]

I noticed that Message-ID:
<Ov******************@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com > from Tom Thackrey
contained the following:

When you want to add server side functionality, PHP is a great choice. If
you understand HTML you can use tools, like Frontpage, to create the pages
and PHP to provide the database interface or form processing or whatever.

Tom's right. Say you wanted to produce a table based on the result of a
database query. You'd have to know how to write a table row in HTML so
that you could incorporate it into your PHP code.

--
Geoff Berrow
It's only Usenet, no one dies.
My opinions, not the committee's, mine.
Simple RFDs http://www.ckdog.co.uk/rfdmaker/

[Paulus Magnus]

"Steve" <st**********@mypcpro.com> wrote in message
news:3f**************************@posting.google.c om...

I want to learn PHP. To date all I've used is Frontpage. What is the
first step? Should I move to Dreamweaver or something else, then get
into PHP?

You need to understand the language first and you can do that with Notepad
or Frontpage. As your skills develop you can move to Dreamweaver and
integrated environments like phpEd. You'd also benefit by installing Apache,
MySQL and PHP on your computer so you can test your code immediately.
Foxserv and phpTriad are two easy Windows based installers for setting up a
local environment.

I learnt from a book and I'd recommend the same route. When you've got the
basics you then start using online sources. When I'm developing I have
Dreamweaver MX 2004 open, Internet Explorer and Opera. The code is all
tested locally using Dreamweaver through the Internet Explorer I leave open.
I keep Opera open so that Dreamweaver doesn't try to hijack it when I hit
F12, to preview the page. Opera has an ability to open all the bookmarks in
a folder so I use this to open 3 pages every time I start development; one
to php.net, one to mysql.com and another to the local copy of phpMyAdmin so
I can see what my code is doing to my database. And then when I get a tricky
bug to find I startup phpEd and single step through the code until I find
the varmit. It's not a perfect way of working but its what I've ended up
moving towards.

Paulus

[Larry Jaques]

On 7 Oct 2003 15:27:43 -0700, st**********@mypcpro.com (Steve)
pixelated:

I want to learn PHP. To date all I've used is Frontpage. What is the
first step? Should I move to Dreamweaver or something else, then get
into PHP?

I learned how to hand-code HTML back in 1995 with my first
business website. While programs like PageAFFRONT, er, I
mean Frontpage, may do things more quickly, hand coding is
much more effective and smaller in size, therefore quicker
to load. Pick up a copy of Jennifer Niederst's "Web Design
in a Nutshell" (a real gem!) and Rasmus Lerdorf's new book
"Programming PHP" (which I'm just getting into now). There
is a new version of Julie Meloni's "PHP Essentials", (my
first-bought PHP book) coming out soon. Highly recommended,
as she is a good teacher and her style is clear. I liked
"PHP and MySQL Web Development" by Luke Welling and Laura
Thomson, too. Then there's "Usable Shopping Carts" put out
by Glasshaus. Each has its appeal and different style. See
what you can find in the local libraries and buy the rest.
You'll be using them for reference for years, believe me.
This newsgroup has a ton of talent, too. (Thanks, guys.)

[Bruno Desthuilliers]

Steve wrote:

I want to learn PHP. To date all I've used is Frontpage. What is the
first step? Should I move to Dreamweaver or something else, then get
into PHP?

First get into HTML.

Bruno

[Steve]

"Tom Thackrey" <us***********@nospam.com> wrote in message news:<Ov******************@newssvr27.news.prodigy. com>...

On 7-Oct-2003, st**********@mypcpro.com (Steve) wrote:

I want to learn PHP. To date all I've used is Frontpage. What is the
first step? Should I move to Dreamweaver or something else, then get
into PHP?

One key to PHP is a good understanding of HTML, start there. PHP provides a
way to make the HTML that the browser sees dynamic. It can display different
data or even pages depending on user input or other factors.

Dreamweaver, Frontpage, etc generate HTML and are useful for designing the
look of a web site.
When you want to add server side functionality, PHP is a great choice. If
you understand HTML you can use tools, like Frontpage, to create the pages
and PHP to provide the database interface or form processing or whatever.

*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--

Well, actually, I'm OK with HTML, not fluent, but not ignorant either.
I often doctor the code Frontpage produces manually. I happened to
start using Frontpage for reasons of speed and the fact that it came
with an MS Office package I bought a couple of years ago.

I guess what I need to know is whether I would benefit from moving
away from Frontpage and toward Dreamweaver since I figured (and this
premise might be wrong) that I would build the pages with FP or DW,
then tune it and implement PHP manually. Does this make sense? Is it
better or easier to work with PHP if I am using DW as opposed to FP?

Thank you (all) for your help.

Steve

[Geoff Berrow]

I noticed that Message-ID:
<3f**************************@posting.google.com > from Steve contained
the following:

Does this make sense? Is it
better or easier to work with PHP if I am using DW as opposed to FP?

Since you are working with the code, it doesn't really matter, but I
believe Dreamweaver MX has some integration with PHP. Not used it so I
cannot comment further.

I use Dreamweaver because of the code view, site management and ftp
facility but if you have too much PHP generated stuff the preview window
becomes useless and it becomes a souped up notepad.

--
Geoff Berrow
It's only Usenet, no one dies.
My opinions, not the committee's, mine.
Simple RFDs http://www.ckdog.co.uk/rfdmaker/

[Tom Thackrey]

On 8-Oct-2003, st**********@mypcpro.com (Steve) wrote:

Well, actually, I'm OK with HTML, not fluent, but not ignorant either.
I often doctor the code Frontpage produces manually. I happened to
start using Frontpage for reasons of speed and the fact that it came
with an MS Office package I bought a couple of years ago.

I guess what I need to know is whether I would benefit from moving
away from Frontpage and toward Dreamweaver since I figured (and this
premise might be wrong) that I would build the pages with FP or DW,
then tune it and implement PHP manually. Does this make sense? Is it
better or easier to work with PHP if I am using DW as opposed to FP?

Thank you (all) for your help.

I don't think it makes much difference. Use whatever works best for the kind
of sites you design.

For me, I code the HTML directly, without FP or DW, it's cleaner and easier
to read and understand. It also integrates with PHP more easily.

One project I worked on recently, the customer wanted to be able to update
some pages on the site with FP. So, I used FP to create most of the pages
for the site, those where I needed PHP, I created the page templates in FP
and wrote separate PHP scripts to read the templates and insert the
appropriate data. I simply put tags in the templates where I wanted the data
placed.

--
Tom Thackrey
www.creative-light.com
tom (at) creative (dash) light (dot) com
do NOT send email to ja*********@willglen.net (it's reserved for spammers)

[Paulus Magnus]

"Tom Thackrey" <us***********@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:KH**********************@newssvr21.news.prodi gy.com...

On 8-Oct-2003, st**********@mypcpro.com (Steve) wrote:

Well, actually, I'm OK with HTML, not fluent, but not ignorant either.
I often doctor the code Frontpage produces manually. I happened to
start using Frontpage for reasons of speed and the fact that it came
with an MS Office package I bought a couple of years ago.

I guess what I need to know is whether I would benefit from moving
away from Frontpage and toward Dreamweaver since I figured (and this
premise might be wrong) that I would build the pages with FP or DW,
then tune it and implement PHP manually. Does this make sense? Is it
better or easier to work with PHP if I am using DW as opposed to FP?

Thank you (all) for your help.

I've used Dreamweaver for a few years and I find it indispensable. It does
integrate with PHP quite well as it gives you syntax coloring and syntax
tips as you type the PHP functions. It also provides a very easy setup for
local and remote servers so you can test everything on a local installation
of MySQL/PHP/Apache before sending it to the live remote site. I also use
phpEd but I find it far more difficult to develop with as I'm often editing
HTML and PHP at the same time and phpEd isn't very good at the HTML side of
things. Therefore, phpEd is used for debugging difficult scripts that need
the power of single stepping to find the problem.

I also use a templating system to remove the HTML from the PHP which makes
the code so much easier to work with as the process flow is much easier to
see and control. I'd advise anybody to use DW if they're considering doing
the job professionally as most other people in the profession use this tool.
FrontPage is just too Microsoft oriented and just doesn't match DW at all.

Paulus

[Steve]

Geoff Berrow <[e-mail]> wrote in message news:<ob********************************@4ax.com>. ..

I noticed that Message-ID:
<3f**************************@posting.google.com > from Steve contained
the following:

Does this make sense? Is it
better or easier to work with PHP if I am using DW as opposed to FP?

Since you are working with the code, it doesn't really matter, but I
believe Dreamweaver MX has some integration with PHP. Not used it so I
cannot comment further.

I use Dreamweaver because of the code view, site management and ftp
facility but if you have too much PHP generated stuff the preview window
becomes useless and it becomes a souped up notepad.

*-----*-----*-----*-----*-----*-----

Thank you, and the others, for your help. It appears I can continue
with FP for the time being and work PHP into it as needed and that I
have to sharpen my skills with HTML.

Steve