This is intended to fix a long standing
(cough)Java(cough) problem with which I'm
sure some of you will be familiar.
Sun recommends using the <OBJECT>/<EMBED>
elements to cater for Java applets, but then
uses *browser* *sniffing* Javascript to select
between them.
I was hoping to find/create a script that
will use feature detection to write the
appropriate tag, but I am stumped as to
how to detect whether to use the OBJECT
element or alternatively (& in actuality)
the original APPLET* element.
* I want to avoid invalid HTML as well,
and the <EMBED> ..thing was never a valid
HTML element, not in any HTML recommendation
I can put my hands on, in any case.
So, my immediate questions are..
Is there a way to detect if a browser will understand
the <OBJECT> element, using Javascript object detection?
How?
BTW.. I was playing with some experiments
on 'nesting' the various elements, using no
Javascript. They were rather unsuccessful,
you can see them here..
<http://www.physci.org/test/appletcall/>
...this post pretty much picks up where the
'conclusion' of that page arrives.
Appreciate any insights.
--
Andrew Thompson http://www.PhySci.org/ Open-source software suite http://www.PhySci.org/codes/ Web & IT Help http://www.1point1C.org/ Science & Technology 23  2245 
In article <15******************************@40tude.net>, Se********@www.invalid enlightened us with...
Is there a way to detect if a browser will understand
the <OBJECT> element, using Javascript object detection?
Why would you?
From <http://www.ibiblio.org/javafaq/course/week5/14.html>
[cite]
You can support both by placing an <APPLET> element inside an <OBJECT>
element like this:
<OBJECT classid="MyApplet" width="200" height="200">
<APPLET code="MyApplet" width="200" height="200">
</APPLET>
</OBJECT>
Browsers that understand <OBJECT> will ignore its content while browsers that
don't will display its content.
[/cite]
--
--
~kaeli~
If the funeral procession is at night, do folks drive with
their lights off? http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace
In article <15******************************@40tude.net>, Se********@www.invalid enlightened us with...
Is there a way to detect if a browser will understand
the <OBJECT> element, using Javascript object detection?
Oh, and I would imagine that any browser that supports the new DOM will
support the object tag. So give it an ID and test for
if (document.getElementById && document.getElementById("myObjectId"))
If I'm wrong on that, someone let me know, mmkay?
--
--
~kaeli~
If the funeral procession is at night, do folks drive with
their lights off? http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace
On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 09:44:02 -0500, kaeli wrote: <OBJECT classid="MyApplet" width="200" height="200">
<APPLET code="MyApplet" width="200" height="200">
</APPLET>
</OBJECT>
That is essentially what I attempted here..
<http://www.physci.org/test/appletcall/index1.html>
Did I do it wrong? (IE 6 renders both calls.)
--
Andrew Thompson http://www.PhySci.org/ Open-source software suite http://www.PhySci.org/codes/ Web & IT Help http://www.1point1C.org/ Science & Technology
Andrew Thompson wrote: On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 09:44:02 -0500, kaeli wrote:
<OBJECT classid="MyApplet" width="200" height="200">
<APPLET code="MyApplet" width="200" height="200">
</APPLET>
</OBJECT>
That is essentially what I attempted here..
<http://www.physci.org/test/appletcall/index1.html>
Did I do it wrong? (IE 6 renders both calls.)
No, nothing wrong with your HTML but IE does the wrong thing with
content of an <object> element.
--
Martin Honnen http://JavaScript.FAQTs.com/
In article <y7****************************@40tude.net>, Se********@www.invalid enlightened us with... On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 09:44:02 -0500, kaeli wrote:
<OBJECT classid="MyApplet" width="200" height="200">
<APPLET code="MyApplet" width="200" height="200">
</APPLET>
</OBJECT>
That is essentially what I attempted here..
<http://www.physci.org/test/appletcall/index1.html>
Did I do it wrong? (IE 6 renders both calls.)
I dunno...what should it look like that makes you think it isn't doing what
it's supposed to do?
I see the applet in my IE6. Once.
Note that I always have the latest version of IE with all patches and the
latest SP for my OS, which is Win2K Pro here at work and WinXP at home. My
default browser is Netscape 7 and my JVM is 1.4.1. I am a java developer, so
I have the whole SDK installed.
Java(TM) Plug-in: Version 1.4.1_01
Using JRE version 1.4.1_01 Java HotSpot(TM) Client VM
--
--
~kaeli~
A midget fortune teller who escapes from prison is a small
medium at large. http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace
On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 17:34:12 +0200, Martin Honnen wrote: Andrew Thompson wrote: On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 09:44:02 -0500, kaeli wrote:
<OBJECT classid="MyApplet" width="200" height="200">
<APPLET code="MyApplet" width="200" height="200">
</APPLET>
</OBJECT>
That is essentially what I attempted here..
<http://www.physci.org/test/appletcall/index1.html>
Did I do it wrong? (IE 6 renders both calls.)
No, nothing wrong with your HTML but IE does the wrong thing with
content of an <object> element.
I suppose that is what I have been skirting around..
(I didn't intend coming in here screaming about how
'I need to detect IE'!)
I figure it is better to try and detect if
the *browser* supports the <OBJECT> element
and use it, otherwise write the applet tag.
So, that brings us back to the starting point..
Is there a way to detect whether a browser will
accept act/on the <OBJECT> element?
--
Andrew Thompson http://www.PhySci.org/ Open-source software suite http://www.PhySci.org/codes/ Web & IT Help http://www.1point1C.org/ Science & Technology
On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 10:37:47 -0500, kaeli wrote: I see the applet in my IE6. Once.
The page is a bit quirky I have noticed
(do not know why), sometimes the label
OBJECT will appear to the left of the label
APPLET.. each is configured for the respective
call to the applet.
On other occasions, frustratingly, the page will show
only the APPLET message, but still leaves the space
where the OBJECT label *would* have appeared.
In contrast, Moz/NN both show the label APPLET,
on the left, while Opera shows OBJECT on the left.
Most confounding.. :-(
--
Andrew Thompson http://www.PhySci.org/ Open-source software suite http://www.PhySci.org/codes/ Web & IT Help http://www.1point1C.org/ Science & Technology
In article <1u*****************************@40tude.net>, Se********@www.invalid enlightened us with... and use it, otherwise write the applet tag.
So, that brings us back to the starting point..
Is there a way to detect whether a browser will
accept act/on the <OBJECT> element?
But you see, IE would report that it did support it. It thinks it does.
The implementation is buggy, but the browser thinks it has it.
So, in this case, I'd recommend IE conditional comments if you're having
problems specifically with IE. AFAIK, older non-IE browsers that don't
support the object tag will indeed ignore the object tag and use the applet
tag, as they should.
Oh, and for some reason, now I DO see both elemenets. I had to refresh the
page a couple times.
--
--
~kaeli~
If it's tourist season, why can't we shoot them? http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace
In article <k9****************************@40tude.net>, Se********@www.invalid enlightened us with... On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 10:37:47 -0500, kaeli wrote:
I see the applet in my IE6. Once.
The page is a bit quirky I have noticed
(do not know why), sometimes the label
OBJECT will appear to the left of the label
APPLET.. each is configured for the respective
call to the applet.
Yeah, I noticed after I refreshed that I DID see the object, too.
Very odd.
See my other reply about conditional comments for IE.
--
--
~kaeli~
A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless
interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an
otherwise dull day. http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace
kaeli wrote: In article <15******************************@40tude.net>,
Se********@www.invalid enlightened us with...
Is there a way to detect if a browser will understand
the <OBJECT> element, using Javascript object detection?
Oh, and I would imagine that any browser that supports the new DOM will
support the object tag. So give it an ID and test for
if (document.getElementById && document.getElementById("myObjectId"))
If I'm wrong on that, someone let me know, mmkay?
<mytag id="myID">Text</mytag>
<button onclick="
if (document.getElementById &&
document.getElementById('myID')){alert('Yes')}">Te st</button>
IE6 gives the alert, even though it doesn't understand the "mytag".
Testing for the ID will only tell you whether it exists or not, not
whether it supports the tag or not.
About the only way to test for support of the OBJECT tag would be to try
to load some data file in it, read it and see what your results are.
Changing the above alert to:
document.getElementById('myID').innerHTML;
IE6 gives a blank alert. Means it finds the ID but can't read its
innerHTML property since it doesn't actually support the mytag tag.
--
Randy
comp.lang.javascript FAQ - http://jibbering.com/faq
On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 16:01:18 GMT, Andrew Thompson <Se********@www.invalid>
wrote: On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 10:37:47 -0500, kaeli wrote:
I see the applet in my IE6. Once.
The page is a bit quirky I have noticed
(do not know why), sometimes the label
OBJECT will appear to the left of the label
APPLET.. each is configured for the respective
call to the applet.
Quirky? When I first loaded the page, there was a space for the OBJECT
element (the applet was there but not started), and APPLET was shown.
However, IE crashed.
The second time, the same, but without the crash. A null pointer
exception, and a permission denied error.
The third time, success with both.
IE 6, SP2. WinXP SP1.
[snip]
On the actual topic: I don't think so. There's certainly no direct way. I
considered using document.createElement() (I know it would be useless for
NN4 and the like) to create an OBJECT, but Mozilla has no problem creating
it (OBJECT isn't just used for applets, after all).
By the way, EMBED has never been a standard element. The first OBJECT-like
element was APPLET, introduced in HTML 3.2, followed by OBJECT sometime in
HTML 4 (forgive me for not looking up exactly when). EMBED is just made up
Microsoft rubbish.
Sorry I couldn't help more,
Mike
--
Michael Winter
Replace ".invalid" with ".uk" to reply by e-mail.
Andrew Thompson wrote: Martin Honnen wrote: Andrew Thompson wrote:
<snip> That is essentially what I attempted here..
<http://www.physci.org/test/appletcall/index1.html>
Did I do it wrong? (IE 6 renders both calls.)
No, nothing wrong with your HTML but IE does the wrong
thing with content of an <object> element.
I suppose that is what I have been skirting around..
(I didn't intend coming in here screaming about how
'I need to detect IE'!)
I figure it is better to try and detect if
the *browser* supports the <OBJECT> element
and use it, otherwise write the applet tag.
So, that brings us back to the starting point..
Is there a way to detect whether a browser will
accept act/on the <OBJECT> element?
My IE 6 puts up the security warning about my having ActiveX disabled
and then shows the APPLET label, but I will believe that it would show
both if ActiveX was enabled (it won't be), and
document.getElementsByTagName('object).length returned one, while
document.applets.length returned two. But if both exist you should be
able to test for that condition and remove one of them from the DOM.
For example, if you put a script element immediately after the
OBJECT/APPLET tags and try to see if one, then the other, can be
accessed through the DOM (by ID or in the pertinent collection) if you
find you have both the browser is probably IE and it should support the
removal of one of them form the DOM ( -
appletX.partneNode.removeChild(appletX)) - ). That should happen quickly
enough that the user wouldn't notice.
In the case of my disabled ActiveX it would be best to remove the
disabled one rather than the working one.
Richard.
On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 11:14:42 -0500, kaeli wrote: In article <k9****************************@40tude.net>,
Se********@www.invalid enlightened us with... On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 10:37:47 -0500, kaeli wrote:
I see the applet in my IE6. Once.
The page is a bit quirky I have noticed
... Yeah, I noticed after I refreshed that I DID see the object, too.
... See my other reply about conditional comments for IE.
Yeah.. IE conditional statements seemed a promising
avenue. I had a look at them, but simply could
not come up with a combination that worked to
hide one applet call from IE, while allowing
Netscape/Mozilla & Opera to see both..
Do you have any specific inspirations in that regard?
I will look at the IE conditional statements again
if I can get a new angle to attack it..
--
Andrew Thompson http://www.PhySci.org/ Open-source software suite http://www.PhySci.org/codes/ Web & IT Help http://www.1point1C.org/ Science & Technology
Richard Cornford wrote: Andrew Thompson wrote:
Martin Honnen wrote:
Andrew Thompson wrote:
<snip>
That is essentially what I attempted here..
<http://www.physci.org/test/appletcall/index1.html>
Did I do it wrong? (IE 6 renders both calls.)
No, nothing wrong with your HTML but IE does the wrong
thing with content of an <object> element.
I suppose that is what I have been skirting around..
(I didn't intend coming in here screaming about how
'I need to detect IE'!)
I figure it is better to try and detect if
the *browser* supports the <OBJECT> element
and use it, otherwise write the applet tag.
So, that brings us back to the starting point..
Is there a way to detect whether a browser will
accept act/on the <OBJECT> element?
My IE 6 puts up the security warning about my having ActiveX disabled
and then shows the APPLET label, but I will believe that it would show
both if ActiveX was enabled (it won't be), and
document.getElementsByTagName('object).length returned one, while
document.applets.length returned two. But if both exist you should be
able to test for that condition and remove one of them from the DOM.
For example, if you put a script element immediately after the
OBJECT/APPLET tags and try to see if one, then the other, can be
accessed through the DOM (by ID or in the pertinent collection) if you
Not by ID, but through the collection. It will find it by ID, even if it
doesn't support the tag. See my other reply in this thread.
--
Randy
comp.lang.javascript FAQ - http://jibbering.com/faq
On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 16:37:49 GMT, Michael Winter wrote: On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 16:01:18 GMT, Andrew Thompson <Se********@www.invalid> On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 10:37:47 -0500, kaeli wrote:
I see the applet in my IE6. Once.
The page is a bit quirky ..
... Quirky?
<snip - crash, null pointer, permission denied>
Well, maybe Xuirky is a better term,
quirky with that Xtreme aspect, or
...maybe not. ;-)
... On the actual topic: I don't think so.
Richard seems to have suggested some clever
possibilities I want to look more closely at.
I also want to read what Randy says more
closely as well.
I am nowhere near tossing in the towel on
this one. I'm only just getting into the
swing of it.
By the way, EMBED has never been a standard element. The first OBJECT-like
element was APPLET, introduced in HTML 3.2, followed by OBJECT sometime in
HTML 4 (forgive me for not looking up exactly when). EMBED is just made up
Microsoft rubbish.
...Ironically, I got the impression EMBED was
an imaginary tag of *Netscape*, rather than IE.
Yeah, I realise it is a bit of a shock to recognize
that 'IE has it right' on this one. Well, almost
right, given it should ignore the APPLET element
nested inside the OBJECT.
Sorry I couldn't help more,
Thank you for your time and thoughts. :-)
[ ..and, sorry I crashed your browser! ]
--
Andrew Thompson http://www.PhySci.org/ Open-source software suite http://www.PhySci.org/codes/ Web & IT Help http://www.1point1C.org/ Science & Technology
On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 17:40:10 +0100, Richard Cornford wrote:
.... For example, ..
Thanks for the pointers Richard.
I will have a close look at what you are
describing after I get some sleep, then
I'll see what I can put together.
--
Andrew Thompson http://www.PhySci.org/ Open-source software suite http://www.PhySci.org/codes/ Web & IT Help http://www.1point1C.org/ Science & Technology
On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 12:33:07 -0400, Randy Webb wrote: About the only way to test for support of the OBJECT tag would be to try
to load some data file in it, read it and see what your results are.
That sounds promising, but I might investigate
Richard's suggestion at the outset.
Thanks Randy.
--
Andrew Thompson http://www.PhySci.org/ Open-source software suite http://www.PhySci.org/codes/ Web & IT Help http://www.1point1C.org/ Science & Technology
In article <1e*****************************@40tude.net>, Se********@www.invalid enlightened us with...
Yeah.. IE conditional statements seemed a promising
avenue. I had a look at them, but simply could
not come up with a combination that worked to
hide one applet call from IE, while allowing
Netscape/Mozilla & Opera to see both..
Do you have any specific inspirations in that regard?
I will look at the IE conditional statements again
if I can get a new angle to attack it..
Try this. Applet only for IE, both for everything else. Not tested. Well,
tested with text only and it worked.
<![if ! IE]>
<OBJECT classid='clsid:8AD9C840-044E-11D1-B3E9-00805F499D93'
codebase='http://java.sun.com/products/plugin/autodl/jinstall-1_4-windows-
i586.cab#Version=1,4,0'
width=80 height=30>
<param name="type" value="application/x-java-applet;jpi-version=1.4.0">
<param name='code' value='LabelApplet.class'>
<param name='message' value='OBJECT'>
<applet alt='Java Disabled! (applet)'
code='LabelApplet.class'
width=80 height=30>
<param name='message' value='APPLET'>
</applet>
</OBJECT>
<![endif]>
<!--[if IE]>
<applet alt='Java Disabled! (applet)'
code='LabelApplet.class'
width=80 height=30>
<param name='message' value='APPLET'>
</applet>
<![endif]-->
--
--
~kaeli~
You can't have everything. Where would you put it? http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace
On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 17:14:05 GMT, Andrew Thompson <Se********@www.invalid>
wrote:
[snip] Richard seems to have suggested some clever
possibilities I want to look more closely at.
I also want to read what Randy says more
closely as well.
I considered enumerating the elements and disabling the appropriate one,
but someone once asked in a Java group how to communicate with an applet
with JavaScript. The problem he was having was with actually obtaining a
reference. I seem to remember having trouble with the applets collection,
so I ignored it here. I must say that I don't remember what mark-up that
poster used; it may have had no relevance here.
[snip]
..Ironically, I got the impression EMBED was
an imaginary tag of *Netscape*, rather than IE.
Yeah, I realise it is a bit of a shock to recognize
that 'IE has it right' on this one. Well, almost
right, given it should ignore the APPLET element
nested inside the OBJECT.
It seems you could be right. I've only seen the element described in
Microsoft documents, hence my assumption, but searching through archived
information on DevEdge does show Netscape using it, too.
Netscape apparently implemented it in NN2, whilst Microsoft did in IE3.
I'd assume that NN2 was released first, making it Netscape's element, but
I know nothing of browser chronology, especially that far back.
I hate bashing Microsoft when, in the end, it's not their fault. They
deserve it most of the time though. :D
Thank you for your time and thoughts. :-)
[ ..and, sorry I crashed your browser! ]
You crashed *Internet Explorer*, not my browser. :)
I'm an Opera user!
Mike
--
Michael Winter
Replace ".invalid" with ".uk" to reply by e-mail.
In article <as********************@comcast.com>, Hi************@aol.com
enlightened us with...
<mytag id="myID">Text</mytag>
<button onclick="
if (document.getElementById &&
document.getElementById('myID')){alert('Yes')}">Te st</button>
IE6 gives the alert, even though it doesn't understand the "mytag".
Wow, very informative. And totally not what I expected. Obviously.
Thanks Randy.
--
--
~kaeli~
All I ask is the chance to prove that money cannot make me
happy. http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace
On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 18:02:51 GMT, Michael Winter wrote:
I might have made intelligent and erudite replies
to several of the response to this thread, or posted
progress, ..if I had not been awoken to an invitation
to go drinking ..which I accepted!
In that case.. On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 17:14:05 GMT, Andrew Thompson wrote:
..... I hate bashing Microsoft when, in the end, it's not their fault. They
deserve it most of the time though. :D
I am always at least slightly surprised to discover it
is *Microsoft* that follows the standard..
It's pretty rare though. Thank you for your time and thoughts. :-)
[ ..and, sorry I crashed your browser! ]
You crashed *Internet Explorer*, not my browser. :)
I'm an Opera user!
(Oops!) I don't know what's worse now.. crashing
your 'OS Component', ..or accusing you of using
it as a 'browser' (where was my head at?). ;-)
--
Andrew Thompson http://www.PhySci.org/ Open-source software suite http://www.PhySci.org/codes/ Web & IT Help http://www.1point1C.org/ Science & Technology
On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 12:47:14 -0500, kaeli wrote: Try this. Applet only for IE, both for everything else. Not tested. Well,
tested with text only and it worked.
<![if ! IE]>
I still want to investigate the other approaches mentioned,
but I decided to test IE conditional statements first..
My best attempt is here..
<http://www.physci.org/test/appletcall/index5.html>
...it does not validate due to the conditional
statements, but it comes very close to doing what
I want in a (hopefully) reliable manner.
The other attempts, index3, closely based on your example,
and index4.. I rejected both of these for reasons further
expounded in the pages, you can see them linked from here...
<http://www.physci.org/test/appletcall/>
I stumbled around MSDN looking for information
on which versions of IE support <OBJECT> elements
and conditional statements respectively, without
much luck..
Anybody have further info. on that, I'd appreciate
hearing it. I am also after more test results on
the page listed above.
--
Andrew Thompson http://www.PhySci.org/ Open-source software suite http://www.PhySci.org/codes/ Web & IT Help http://www.1point1C.org/ Science & Technology
On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 12:57:26 GMT, Andrew Thompson wrote: This is intended to fix a long standing
(cough)Java(cough) problem with which I'm
sure some of you will be familiar.
Sun recommends using the <OBJECT>/<EMBED>
elements to cater for Java applets, but then
uses *browser* *sniffing* Javascript to select
between them.
I was hoping to find/create a script that
will use feature detection to write the
appropriate tag,
Just to update. I think I now have two
satisfactory solutions.
The first was arrived at very early in the
thread by kaeli, bringing me back to look
at IE conditional statements.
The second was developed with the help of
Richard Cornford amd Randy Webb, in the
process of detecting the applets that were
duplicated in IE, and removing one.
Initially I was having problems with this,
but I have now realised that anything in the
<APPLET> element will ultimately be loaded by
my specialist AppletLoader.
I can use the LoaderApplet *itself* to check
for the applet defined through the <OBJECT>
tag, then invoke the JS commands necessary
to remove itself, should the other applet
be loaded.
This will take further work on the
LoaderApplet before I can fully test it.
Once I have that page up, I'll post a link
on the thread.
Thanks to all who responded.
--
Andrew Thompson http://www.PhySci.org/ Open-source software suite http://www.PhySci.org/codes/ Web & IT Help http://www.1point1C.org/ Science & Technology This thread has been closed and replies have been disabled. Please start a new discussion. Similar topics
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Most computers default to English, but sometimes we require a different language, especially when relocating. Forgot to request a specific language before your computer shipped? No problem! You can...
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by: Oralloy |
last post by:
Hello folks,
I am unable to find appropriate documentation on the type promotion of bit-fields when using the generalised comparison operator "<=>".
The problem is that using the GNU compilers,...
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by: jinu1996 |
last post by:
In today's digital age, having a compelling online presence is paramount for businesses aiming to thrive in a competitive landscape. At the heart of this digital strategy lies an intricately woven...
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by: Hystou |
last post by:
Overview:
Windows 11 and 10 have less user interface control over operating system update behaviour than previous versions of Windows. In Windows 11 and 10, there is no way to turn off the Windows...
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by: tracyyun |
last post by:
Dear forum friends,
With the development of smart home technology, a variety of wireless communication protocols have appeared on the market, such as Zigbee, Z-Wave, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, etc. Each...
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