Eclipse vs. NetBeans

[Kid Programmer]

Hello guys. This is just an opinion. Which Java IDE should I use. Eclipse or NetBeans. I usually like to develop applications and create GUI windows. So which one should I use?

[r035198x]

Hello guys. This is just an opinion. Which Java IDE should I use. Eclipse or NetBeans. I usually like to develop applications and create GUI windows. So which one should I use?

For GUI with Eclipse you need a plugin for that. Netbeans doesn't need a plugin for GUIs.
Which one should you use? I prefer Eclipse.
Matter of preference I guess.

[JosAH]

Using such a drag-and-drop thing for gui building is AVBT (A Very Bad Thing (tm)).
Those things create code for you that you don't understand, the code is very
screen size dependent and it smells funny. Guis are best built using proper
LayourManagers and a proper nesting of gui Components.

Find a consistent way to build up your guis, separate the controller functionality
from the view functionality (many separate small methods!) and knit them together
in a sort of generic way and you're almost there. Let those LayoutManagers do
the rest of the boring work. You don't need Netbeans for that; better have an IDE
that gives you full control over (the structure of) your code.

kind regards,

Jos

[r035198x]

..
Those things create code for you that you don't understand,...
kind regards,

Jos

... and can't edit.

[ajos]

Using such a drag-and-drop thing for gui building is AVBT (A Very Bad Thing (tm)).
Those things create code for you that you don't understand, the code is very
screen size dependent and it smells funny. Guis are best built using proper
LayourManagers and a proper nesting of gui Components.

Find a consistent way to build up your guis, separate the controller functionality
from the view functionality (many separate small methods!) and knit them together
in a sort of generic way and you're almost there. Let those LayoutManagers do
the rest of the boring work. You don't need Netbeans for that; better have an IDE
that gives you full control over (the structure of) your code.

kind regards,

Jos

I swithched from eclipse to netbeans 6.0 a fortnight ago, and had many problems with it. I found netbeans "doing the stuff for you kind" which i dont like personally, i like to put my jar file(for web projects) for struts,jsf etc manually, netbeans does this for me. I find eclipse very fast and doesnt make you feel the "lazy kind" like "let me put the jars for you".

This is in context to web projects like struts,jsf etc in netbeans, i dont know about the GUI stuff. Jos said it well.

regards.

[JosAH]

... and can't edit.

True, I once played with a thing that generated code for me and it put some
magic incantations in the comment lines as well as a warning "do not delete".
Guess what I do when I see a warning sign "wet, do not touch" so I deleted
those magic spells. There was no way I could alter that gui with that tool
anymore; they are so cute. not.

kind regards,

Jos

[r035198x]

True, I once played with a thing that generated code for me and it put some
magic incantations in the comment lines as well as a warning "do not delete".
Guess what I do when I see a warning sign "wet, do not touch" so I deleted
those magic spells. There was no way I could alter that gui with that tool
anymore; they are so cute. not.

kind regards,

Jos

I had a thing like that too. It was called Netbeans.

[JosAH]

I had a thing like that too. It was called Netbeans.

I never really trusted Sun's code quality; Java is the first different thing: they have
JSRs and expert groups and other companies define and implement most of the
reference implementations.

kind regards,

Jos

[BigDaddyLH]

Using such a drag-and-drop thing for gui building is AVBT (A Very Bad Thing (tm)).
Those things create code for you that you don't understand, the code is very
screen size dependent and it smells funny. Guis are best built using proper
LayourManagers and a proper nesting of gui Components.

Find a consistent way to build up your guis, separate the controller functionality
from the view functionality (many separate small methods!) and knit them together
in a sort of generic way and you're almost there. Let those LayoutManagers do
the rest of the boring work. You don't need Netbeans for that; better have an IDE
that gives you full control over (the structure of) your code.

kind regards,

Jos

Testify, brother! Another problem with the automatically generated code is that it stinks. Or rather, if you want to use a design like Model-View-Presenter:

http://martinfowler.com/eaaDev/uiArchs.html

You will be going in and redoing the code.

[JosAH]

Testify, brother! Another problem with the automatically generated code is that it stinks. Or rather, if you want to use a design like Model-View-Presenter:

http://martinfowler.com/eaaDev/uiArchs.html

You will be going in and redoing the code.

Most of the people don't think of components like that (nice article btw); all they
want is that their buttons and what have you look nice without having to deal
with LayoutManagers; the behaviour of these components is just an afterthought.

kind regards,

Jos

[BigDaddyLH]

Most of the people don't think of components like that (nice article btw); all they
want is that their buttons and what have you look nice without having to deal
with LayoutManagers; the behaviour of these components is just an afterthought.

kind regards,

Jos

I guess I've been on the pokey end of that stick for too long. And I'm thinking of web apps, where the stick is both longer and pokier. So you end up with a web page that needs to be tested, and the only way to do that is to step through 10 previous web pages, over and over again. <nightmare-ish screaming/>

[Kid Programmer]

It sounds like I should go with Eclipse. I usually find auto generated code easy but I'm not learning anything. I'll stick with Eclipse.

[Plater]

The greatest day on earth in my java career was when I learned that I *COULD* in fact place widgets at pure x,y locations and not use some layoutmanager.
But that might be due to hating having to specify widget placements like an HTML table. Span this way, shrink this way. Bah.

[BigDaddyLH]

The greatest day on earth in my java career was when I learned that I *COULD* in fact place widgets at pure x,y locations and not use some layoutmanager.
But that might be due to hating having to specify widget placements like an HTML table. Span this way, shrink this way. Bah.

I had a different epiphany:

But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved GridBagLayout.

[sukatoa]

I usually find auto generated code easy but I'm not learning anything.

Try JDeveloper....

You will amazed about the generated code.....
It is readable enough by a java programmer....

And most of all? the generated code is editable, you can have an experiment on it...
That's what i've care for....

and also IDX Java IDE.... Not a gui builder but it interprets all of your classes in diagram.... You'll see the diagram about your codes.... with code completion, syntax checker debugger and a window to browse the Java Core API Documentation...(Only for Windows)

That is what im using now in my project and im always guided by that diagram.(Useful if you forgot the specific blocks of your code.)

You'll never regret....

regards,
sukatoa

[Plater]

GridBagLayout

Haha yup, I couldn't think of the name offhand, but GridBagLayout was the "best" layoutmanager I had found. Now I don't even do java anymore so it also no longer matters. Bwahaha.

[r035198x]

Haha yup, I couldn't think of the name offhand, but GridBagLayout was the "best" layoutmanager I had found. Now I don't even do java anymore so it also no longer matters. Bwahaha.

I don't do .NET anymore too so there.
<Rounds us his fellow Java programmers to start celebrating victory over the .NET mod >

[JosAH]

I don't do .NET anymore too so there.
<Rounds us his fellow Java programmers to start celebrating victory over the .NET mod >

What I never understood is that .NET started off as some sort of Java JVM clone
but they have crippled it for MS Windows environments only. IMHO that was the
only thing that made the JVM valuable.

What they didn't do however was widen the .NET definition so it could easily
handle, say, MI of implementation (the JVM is targeted towards SI of implementation
as well). Their 'managed C++' implementation is laughable at best now. I have
played a bit with a SmallTalk implementation for the .NET platform: laughable as
well. Microsoft has sure let a great opportunity slip there.

kind regards,

Jos

[Plater]

But, and uncharactoristically I must say, Microsoft gave away their CLR/CLI to the open source community. (Thus begat Mono)
Three years of java was enough for me. Now it's just a far far backburner leisure activity.... which be pushed to the forefront in my company drops windows.

Also:

<Rounds us his fellow Java programmers to start celebrating victory over the .NET mod >

Hehe, do you have some now? For a bit there I was answering questions in the java forum too :-P

[r035198x]

....

Hehe, do you have some now? For a bit there I was answering questions in the java forum too :-P

Picking up but still below standards.

[JosAH]

Picking up but still below standards.

Indeed, especially those r2d2x and JohOH or whatever guys are a shame for
this community. Can't they be thrown out and burned or something?

kindest regards,

Loretta