[My first post from Google Groups. Hope it's readable.]
I'm working with some semi-advanced tables with lots of decimal
numbers in, and I can't get the alignment to work. http://www.algonet.se/~gustafl/temp/output_ib.html
I want numbers aligned to the decimal point. The HTML 4 spec says User
agents doesn't need to support 'char' and 'charoff', so I wonder if
the problem is lack of support? If so, can the same results be
achieved in another way?
Next best would be aligning the number to right, but there seem to be
a problem with support for <colgroup> aswell. Am I right? Best
solution I found was to have a class for right alignment and call it
from each <td>.
Also, can someone give me a way to prevent negative numbers to break
after the minus? A solution that adds the least clutter to the code?
Would it be right typographically to replace the minus with an
'endash' (#x2013;)?
Thanks,
Gustaf
Jul 20 '05
30  3526 
"Andreas Prilop" <nh******@rrz n-user.uni-hannover.de> wrote in message
news:Pine.GSO.4 .44.04052418453 90.13134-100000@s5b003.. . On Mon, 24 May 2004, Harlan Messinger wrote:
Prefer decimal character references to hexadecimal references.
Why is that, actually?
Decimal references are better supported among browsers:
<http://ppewww.ph.gla.a c.uk/~flavell/charset/checklist.html>
<http://ppewww.ph.gla.a c.uk/~flavell/charset/quick#cons>
e.g. Netscape 4.x.
Ah. Version 4.77 does understand the hex references, but indeed 4.02
doesn't.
It's certainly easier just to use the codes the way
they appear in the Unicode reference,
Easy reading is hard writing.
_You_ as the author, as a single person convert only once. But your
million readers read a million times (hopefully).
Aw, come on, you gave me a perfectly good reason above. Why did you have to
go and spoil it? Millions of people are going to read the code behind my
page--and I should be concerned with their ability to comprehend it? :-)
"Andreas Prilop" <nh******@rrz n-user.uni-hannover.de> wrote in message
news:Pine.GSO.4 .44.04052418491 40.13134-100000@s5b003.. . On Mon, 24 May 2004, Harlan Messinger wrote:
Use a fixed width font, [ ... ]
You can also use %nbsp; to replace leading 0's, [ ... ]
You'll find that doesn't have the width of a digit.
It does - in a monospaced font.
Snort--well, *yeah*. :-P
"Harlan Messinger" <h.*********@co mcast.net> wrote: You'll find that doesn't have the width of a digit.
To be exact, there isn't even any guarantee that digits have equal width.
It just happens that almost (?) all fonts used by browsers have "tabular
digits" that have such a property. In traditional typography, this was
often not the case for digits used in running text - quite conceivably,
"1" was often narrower than "8".
But the space, or the no-break space, does not usually have the same
width as digits, as you say. Using a monospace font solves this problem
but results in a really poor, computerish look.
Unicode has   ( ), "figure space", to serve this
purpose. In my IE6, though, this gives a box; in my Firefox it
produces a space that's slightly too wide; and in my Opera it seems
to work just fine.
I don't quite understand the Firefox behavior, but otherwise this is
understandable. Most fonts lack the figure space character, but
e.g. Arial Unicode MS has got it. If you say nothing about fonts on your
page, then your IE probably uses Times New Roman, and most probably some
font that hasn't got the character. Netscape class browsers and Opera
know how to use glyphs from different fonts when needed (which is
sometimes a stylistic problem), though Opera seems to have odd settings
in this respect. In any case, you probably see the Arial Unicode MS
glyph, or maybe a glyph from some less common font.
Consequently, the figure space is not a good solution at present for WWW
pages. It might work well for the purpose of nice alignment in intranets
where everyone has a sufficiently rich font and a sufficiently advanced
browser.
--
Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
Pages about Web authoring: http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/www.html
"Jukka K. Korpela" <jk******@cs.tu t.fi> wrote in message
news:Xn******** *************** ******@193.229. 0.31... "Harlan Messinger" <h.*********@co mcast.net> wrote:
You'll find that doesn't have the width of a digit.
To be exact, there isn't even any guarantee that digits have equal width.
Granted, though practically speaking they do in modern fonts--at least, in
my experience, I've always been able to count on it--precisely because
anyone designing a general body font knows perfectly well that people need
them to align!
It just happens that almost (?) all fonts used by browsers have "tabular
digits" that have such a property. In traditional typography, this was
often not the case for digits used in running text - quite conceivably,
"1" was often narrower than "8".
But the space, or the no-break space, does not usually have the same
width as digits, as you say. Using a monospace font solves this problem
but results in a really poor, computerish look.
Unicode has   ( ), "figure space", to serve this
purpose. In my IE6, though, this gives a box; in my Firefox it
produces a space that's slightly too wide; and in my Opera it seems
to work just fine.
I don't quite understand the Firefox behavior, but otherwise this is
understandable. Most fonts lack the figure space character, but
e.g. Arial Unicode MS has got it. If you say nothing about fonts on your
page,
I've got font: sans-serif on my test pages.
then your IE probably uses Times New Roman, and most probably some
font that hasn't got the character. Netscape class browsers and Opera
know how to use glyphs from different fonts when needed (which is
sometimes a stylistic problem), though Opera seems to have odd settings
in this respect. In any case, you probably see the Arial Unicode MS
glyph, or maybe a glyph from some less common font.
Consequently, the figure space is not a good solution at present for WWW
pages. It might work well for the purpose of nice alignment in intranets
where everyone has a sufficiently rich font and a sufficiently advanced
browser.
--
Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
Pages about Web authoring: http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/www.html
On Mon, 24 May 2004, Harlan Messinger wrote: Decimal references are better supported among browsers:
e.g. Netscape 4.x.
Ah. Version 4.77 does understand the hex references, but indeed 4.02
doesn't.
Not only 4.02 but newer versions, too. Support for the hexadecimal form
was introduced somewhere between 4.6 and 4.8.
--
Top-posting.
What's the most irritating thing on Usenet?
On Mon, 24 May 2004, Jukka K. Korpela wrote: You'll find that doesn't have the width of a digit.
But the space, or the no-break space, does not usually have the same
width as digits, as you say. Using a monospace font solves this problem
but results in a really poor, computerish look.
How about a zero (0) in the same colour as the background? It does not
much harm when displayed black-on-white.
--
Top-posting.
What's the most irritating thing on Usenet?
Andreas Prilop <nh******@rrz n-user.uni-hannover.de> wrote: But the space, or the no-break space, does not usually have the same
width as digits, as you say. Using a monospace font solves this
problem but results in a really poor, computerish look.
How about a zero (0) in the same colour as the background? It does
not much harm when displayed black-on-white.
A shrewd idea. If you use a program to generate the markup, it's fairly
easy; to write it by hand would be a bit boring, but possible:
<td>123.45<sp an class="sp">00</span></td>
(with .sp { color: white; background: white; }, if your overall
background is white).
There's the risk that people start wondering what's wrong when they see
zeroes or blank depending on the browser and its mode.
For example, they see 123.45 on screen but 123.4500 on paper, maybe with
the digits 00 in gray. This is not serious unless users start thinking
this is a symptom of something serious!
But it seems that using (instead of color setting) just
..sp { visibility: hidden; }
solves the problem both on screen and on print. Maybe even in speech. Or
is there any problem with this approach (apart the usual CSS caveats of
course)?
--
Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
Pages about Web authoring: http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/www.html
Jukka K. Korpela wrote: Andreas Prilop <nh******@rrz n-user.uni-hannover.de> wrote:
But the space, or the no-break space, does not usually have the
same >> width as digits, as you say. Using a monospace font solves
this >> problem but results in a really poor, computerish look.
How about a zero (0) in the same colour as the background? It does
not much harm when displayed black-on-white.
A shrewd idea.
And one that might get you banned in search engines.
--
Google Blogoscoped http://blog.outer-court.com
On Thu, 27 May 2004, Jukka K. Korpela wrote: How about a zero (0) in the same colour as the background? It does
not much harm when displayed black-on-white.
<td>123.45<sp an class="sp">00</span></td>
(with .sp { color: white; background: white; }, if your overall
background is white).
For example, they see 123.45 on screen but 123.4500 on paper, maybe with
the digits 00 in gray.
But it seems that using (instead of color setting) just
.sp { visibility: hidden; }
solves the problem both on screen and on print.
The question was about right-aligning of numbers, therefore writing
00123
01234
12345
for example.
--
Top-posting.
What's the most irritating thing on Usenet?
On 27 May 2004, Philipp Lenssen wrote: How about a zero (0) in the same colour as the background? It does
not much harm when displayed black-on-white.
A shrewd idea.
And one that might get you banned in search engines.
Have you got any evidence?
--
Top-posting.
What's the most irritating thing on Usenet? This thread has been closed and replies have been disabled. Please start a new discussion. Similar topics | |
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