1-Click, Short-Click, Long-Click, More-Clicks (New Microsoft Patent)

[theodp]

Not to be outdone by Amazon's 1-Click patent, Microsoft snagged a
patent from the USPTO Tuesday for a 'Time based hardware button for
application launch', which covers causing different actions to occur
depending upon whether a button is pressed for a short period of time,
a long period of time, or multiple times within a short period of
time. So does pressing car radio buttons for different periods of time
to change or set stations constitute patent infringement?

See the patent at:

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...mber=6,727,830

[Ben Pfaff]

Barry Margolin <ba****@alum.mi t.edu> writes:

In article <c6**********@b lue.rahul.net>,
c.*******@1-ClickXXS.usenet .us.com (Rahul Dhesi) wrote:

Most Microsoft users use "open" to mean "whatever happens after I click".

I doubt anyone thinks that when they click on a link in a browser and it
goes to another page or submits a form that this is "launching an
application".

Are web-based email services applications?
--
bl*@cs.stanford .edu - bl*@gnu.org - pf******@debian .org - bl*@acm.org

[Barry Margolin]

In article <87************ @blp.benpfaff.o rg>,
Ben Pfaff <bl*@cs.stanfor d.edu> wrote:

Barry Margolin <ba****@alum.mi t.edu> writes:

In article <c6**********@b lue.rahul.net>,
c.*******@1-ClickXXS.usenet .us.com (Rahul Dhesi) wrote:

Most Microsoft users use "open" to mean "whatever happens after I click".

I doubt anyone thinks that when they click on a link in a browser and it
goes to another page or submits a form that this is "launching an
application".

Are web-based email services applications?

Possibly. But the individual operations within the email service aren't.

BTW, rather than harping on the phrase "open the application", I'm more
concerned about "limited resource computing device". This is used in
just about every claim, but I'm not sure what it means. The Description
refers to PDAs, and explains that the reason this method is needed is to
make up for the lack of a keyboard -- i.e. instead of holding down
modifier keys like control or shift while you click, it uses the length
of the click.

--
Barry Margolin, ba****@alum.mit .edu
Arlington, MA
*** PLEASE post questions in newsgroups, not directly to me ***

[Rahul Dhesi]

Barry Margolin <ba****@alum.mi t.edu> writes:

In article <87************ @blp.benpfaff.o rg>,
Ben Pfaff <bl*@cs.stanfor d.edu> wrote:

Barry Margolin <ba****@alum.mi t.edu> writes:

> In article <c6**********@b lue.rahul.net>,
> c.*******@1-ClickXXS.usenet .us.com (Rahul Dhesi) wrote:
>
>> Most Microsoft users use "open" to mean "whatever happens after I click".
>
> I doubt anyone thinks that when they click on a link in a browser and it
> goes to another page or submits a form that this is "launching an
> application".

Are web-based email services applications?

Possibly. But the individual operations within the email service aren't. BTW, rather than harping on the phrase "open the application", I'm more
concerned about "limited resource computing device"....

I'm concerned about both. These are all very vague terms with
potentially unlimited domains of use -- the sort of terms that are ideal
for use in defining the claims in a patent.

But unlike me, you seemd to imply, several times, that "open" and
"applicatio n" had obvious common meanings -- which meanings you have yet
to state with any prevision.
--
Rahul

theodp wrote:

When I make toast, sometimes I will put the plate
with the butter on it in the microwave for a
few seconds to soften it up. I think I will go
get a patent for that.

I am not a lawyer. I do not even see email sent to this address, due to
past DOS attacks. If you wish to respond, do so through this newsgroup.

[Christopher C. Stacy]

>>>>> On Thu, 29 Apr 2004 15:21:51 -0400, Barry Margolin ("Barry") writes:

Barry> In article <87************ @blp.benpfaff.o rg>,
Barry> Ben Pfaff <bl*@cs.stanfor d.edu> wrote:

Barry Margolin <ba****@alum.mi t.edu> writes:

> In article <c6**********@b lue.rahul.net>,
> c.*******@1-ClickXXS.usenet .us.com (Rahul Dhesi) wrote:
>
>> Most Microsoft users use "open" to mean "whatever happens after I click".
>
> I doubt anyone thinks that when they click on a link in a browser and it
> goes to another page or submits a form that this is "launching an
> application".

Are web-based email services applications?

Barry> Possibly. But the individual operations within the email service aren't.

Barry> BTW, rather than harping on the phrase "open the application", I'm more
Barry> concerned about "limited resource computing device". This is used in
Barry> just about every claim, but I'm not sure what it means. The Description
Barry> refers to PDAs, and explains that the reason this method is needed is to
Barry> make up for the lack of a keyboard

I've never seen a PDA with a mouse, though. Or, what means it, to "click"?

[Christopher C. Stacy]

>>>>> On Wed, 28 Apr 2004 20:10:43 +0000 (UTC), Rahul Dhesi ("Rahul") writes:
Rahul> both the USPTO and the courts continue to treat published and
Rahul> granted patents as if the USPTO was indeed doing thorough
Rahul> searches of prior art.

As far as I can tell, USPTO will grant a patent for any damned
ridiculous thing now, without any consideration as to whether
it's a new idea, an obvious idea, or whatever. For example,
I did some work for a company a little while back that had been
recently patented the following: a database representing customers,
where each customer has a unique ID number ("PIN") that will be
issued to them for use as their email address.

Once fully granted, is it possible for a patent like the one above
to be somehow overturned? (If this is even possible, I am sure
that it costs big bucks.)

Patents today are issued willy-nilly today, because there is just
no hope that the Government could ever actually do the work to
determine if the patent is reasonable. And nowadays you can even
patent the mere idea of how to operate a business, for example.
It's totally out of control, in so many ways.

[Barry Margolin]

In article <c6**********@b lue.rahul.net>,
c.*******@1-ClickXXS.usenet .us.com (Rahul Dhesi) wrote:

But unlike me, you seemd to imply, several times, that "open" and
"applicatio n" had obvious common meanings -- which meanings you have yet
to state with any prevision.

An application is a computer program that performs a distinct activity.
Opening it is starting it running.

These are common terms in the computer industry. Since a patent is
supposed to be understandable by an industry professional, how far does
it have to go in defining common terms?

--
Barry Margolin, ba****@alum.mit .edu
Arlington, MA
*** PLEASE post questions in newsgroups, not directly to me ***

[Barry Margolin]

In article <uo***********@ news.dtpq.com>,
cs****@news.dtp q.com (Christopher C. Stacy) wrote:

>> On Thu, 29 Apr 2004 15:21:51 -0400, Barry Margolin ("Barry") writes:
Barry> In article <87************ @blp.benpfaff.o rg>,
Barry> Ben Pfaff <bl*@cs.stanfor d.edu> wrote:
>> Barry Margolin <ba****@alum.mi t.edu> writes:
>>
>> > In article <c6**********@b lue.rahul.net>,
>> > c.*******@1-ClickXXS.usenet .us.com (Rahul Dhesi) wrote:
>> >
>> >> Most Microsoft users use "open" to mean "whatever happens after I
>> >> click".
>> >
>> > I doubt anyone thinks that when they click on a link in a browser and
>> > it
>> > goes to another page or submits a form that this is "launching an
>> > application".
>>
>> Are web-based email services applications?

Barry> Possibly. But the individual operations within the email service
aren't.

Barry> BTW, rather than harping on the phrase "open the application", I'm
more
Barry> concerned about "limited resource computing device". This is used in
Barry> just about every claim, but I'm not sure what it means. The
Description
Barry> refers to PDAs, and explains that the reason this method is needed is
to
Barry> make up for the lack of a keyboard

I've never seen a PDA with a mouse, though. Or, what means it, to "click"?

I don't think the patent ever uses the word "click". In the
Description, it describes pressing a screen button with a stylus -- I
think most PDAs have that. The claims use a more generic phrase that I
don't remember, to refer to choosing an on-screen button or icon.

--
Barry Margolin, ba****@alum.mit .edu
Arlington, MA
*** PLEASE post questions in newsgroups, not directly to me ***

[Barry Margolin]

In article <uk***********@ news.dtpq.com>,
cs****@news.dtp q.com (Christopher C. Stacy) wrote:

Once fully granted, is it possible for a patent like the one above
to be somehow overturned? (If this is even possible, I am sure
that it costs big bucks.)

I think there's a relatively inexpensive way to request that the PTO
review a patent. The expensive way to challenge a patent is to wait to
be sued for patent infringement, and go to court to defend yourself.

--
Barry Margolin, ba****@alum.mit .edu
Arlington, MA
*** PLEASE post questions in newsgroups, not directly to me ***

[Alun]

<th******@cotse .net> wrote in
news:dG******** *************** *************** *****@108327077 5.nulluser.com:

theodp wrote:

When I make toast, sometimes I will put the plate
with the butter on it in the microwave for a
few seconds to soften it up. I think I will go
get a patent for that.

I am not a lawyer. I do not even see email sent to this address, due to
past DOS attacks. If you wish to respond, do so through this newsgroup.

Even supposing your toast patent issued, how would you propose to find
prospective infringers?

Alun Palmer, US Patent Agent