Future of c++

[Zootal]

My apologies if this gets asked/discussed a lot. With c# rampaging through
corporate USA (and other countries), what impact will this have on the usage
and future of c++? I've used both of them a bit. I'm in school, and our CS
program does not use c#, but uses mostly c++ and a bit of java. C# is
relegated ot the CIS programs. Out there in the real world, what kind of a
future does c++ have?

[Noah Roberts]

Zootal wrote:

My apologies if this gets asked/discussed a lot. With c# rampaging through
corporate USA (and other countries), what impact will this have on the usage
and future of c++? I've used both of them a bit. I'm in school, and our CS
program does not use c#, but uses mostly c++ and a bit of java. C# is
relegated ot the CIS programs. Out there in the real world, what kind of a
future does c++ have?

C++ isn't going away any time soon.

[Mike Wahler]

"Zootal" <nousenetspam at dead ice dot us> wrote in message
news:zt******************************@giganews.com ...

My apologies if this gets asked/discussed a lot. With c# rampaging through
corporate USA (and other countries), what impact will this have on the
usage
and future of c++? I've used both of them a bit. I'm in school, and our CS
program does not use c#, but uses mostly c++ and a bit of java. C# is
relegated ot the CIS programs. Out there in the real world, what kind of a
future does c++ have?

C++ is platform-independent.
C# is only usable on a limited set of platforms.

Now you decide.

-Mike

[Phlip]

"Zootal" <nousenetspam at dead ice dot us> wrote:

My apologies if this gets asked/discussed a lot. With c# rampaging through
corporate USA (and other countries), what impact will this have on the
usage and future of c++? I've used both of them a bit. I'm in school, and
our CS program does not use c#, but uses mostly c++ and a bit of java. C#
is relegated ot the CIS programs. Out there in the real world, what kind
of a future does c++ have?

In 2004, I said Ruby will replace C++.

In 2000, MS said C# will replace C++.

In 1995, Sun said Java will replace C++.

In 1990, MS said VB will replace C++.

In 1985, NeXT said Objective C will replace C.

In 1980, PARC said Smalltalk will replace C.

So, it looks like it's unanimous. C++ will be replaced!

--
Phlip
http://www.greencheese.us/ZeekLand <-- NOT a blog!!!

[Victor Bazarov]

Zootal wrote:

[...] Out there
in the real world, what kind of a future does c++ have?

Ask not what kind of future the language can have. Ask what
kind of future you can have in the language.

V
--
Please remove capital 'A's when replying by e-mail
I do not respond to top-posted replies, please don't ask

[Walter Bright]

Phlip wrote:

"Zootal" <nousenetspam at dead ice dot us> wrote:

My apologies if this gets asked/discussed a lot. With c# rampaging through
corporate USA (and other countries), what impact will this have on the
usage and future of c++? I've used both of them a bit. I'm in school, and
our CS program does not use c#, but uses mostly c++ and a bit of java. C#
is relegated ot the CIS programs. Out there in the real world, what kind
of a future does c++ have?

In 2004, I said Ruby will replace C++.

In 2000, MS said C# will replace C++.

In 1995, Sun said Java will replace C++.

In 1990, MS said VB will replace C++.

In 1985, NeXT said Objective C will replace C.

In 1980, PARC said Smalltalk will replace C.

So, it looks like it's unanimous. C++ will be replaced!

No language ever actually 'replaces' another, after all, C++ hasn't even
replaced C! There's so much existing C++ code out there that people will
always be needing C++ compilers and C++ programmers to keep them working
and up to date.

But C++ is increasingly showing its age in the form of old-fashioned
ways of doing things. This won't bother the older programmers who've
used it throughout their career, but it won't be attracting younger
ones. Back in the 80's when C++ first came out, I remember the
breathless excitement people had with it. I haven't seen much of that
for years about C++.

I do see such excitement for modern languages like D and Ruby, and I
also see a much younger demographic using those languages.

-Walter Bright
www.digitalmars.com C, C++, D programming language compilers

[Victor Bazarov]

Walter Bright wrote:

[..] Back in the 80's when C++ first came out, I remember the
breathless excitement people had with it. I haven't seen much of that
for years about C++.

Back in 1900s when electricity was taking over lighting of the streets,
houses and running machines, there was excitement. I can't say that I
remember any excitement about electric power for years. But where would
our life be without it? That's my take on C++.

V
--
Please remove capital 'A's when replying by e-mail
I do not respond to top-posted replies, please don't ask

[learnfpga]

I guess I will rephrase his question because I have a similar kind of
concerns as I have recently started dabbling in C++ out of hobby and
future commercial reasons for last few months.
Will getting a decent proficiency in C++ help me learn JAVA, C# or
python more quickly or will I have to start from scratch when I get to
those languages?
I guess the analogy would be if one knows how to drive a car it will be
relatively easier to learn to drive a big Trailer........

[Noah Roberts]

le*******@gmail.com wrote:

I guess I will rephrase his question because I have a similar kind of
concerns as I have recently started dabbling in C++ out of hobby and
future commercial reasons for last few months.
Will getting a decent proficiency in C++ help me learn JAVA, C# or
python more quickly or will I have to start from scratch when I get to
those languages?
I guess the analogy would be if one knows how to drive a car it will be
relatively easier to learn to drive a big Trailer........

It is certainly easier to learn to drive a big trailer if you already
know how to drive some form of vehicle is it not?

Programming concepts are universal.

[Zootal]

"Victor Bazarov" <v.********@comAcast.net> wrote in message
news:e3**********@news.datemas.de...

Zootal wrote:

[...] Out there
in the real world, what kind of a future does c++ have?

Ask not what kind of future the language can have. Ask what
kind of future you can have in the language.

That is to some extant the question. What kind of a future will I have in
years to come learning c++? My current skill set is with VFP, which is a
dead tool. I feel like the old COBOL programmers who can't find COBOL work
anymore. Time to learn something new.

My take is that right now, c# is Microsoft (yes there is an open source/xnix
c# compiler, but how stable and complete is it?). I think that will help you
if you are a Microsoft shop, but for the rest of the world, using c# may not
be an option simply because of the strong association with MS. Given a
choice between a MS exclusive tool, and a universal tool, I'll take the
universal router.

What is D? What is Ruby?

Any comments about the future of using php/perl?

[Roberto Waltman]

"Zootal" wrote:

... With c# rampaging through
corporate USA (and other countries), what impact will this have on the usage
and future of c++? ...
... Out there in the real world, what kind of a
future does c++ have?

From an embedded developer point of view:

C#? What is a "C#"? Is it edible?
How could I identify one if a ever see it?

[mlimber]

Zootal wrote:
[snip]

What is D? What is Ruby?

[snip]

Google is your friend. The Wikipedia is also your friend.

Cheers! --M

[Walter Bright]

le*******@gmail.com wrote:

I guess I will rephrase his question because I have a similar kind of
concerns as I have recently started dabbling in C++ out of hobby and
future commercial reasons for last few months.
Will getting a decent proficiency in C++ help me learn JAVA, C# or
python more quickly
Yes.
or will I have to start from scratch when I get to
those languages?
I guess the analogy would be if one knows how to drive a car it will be
relatively easier to learn to drive a big Trailer........

If you really want a leg up, learn assembler. Knowing how the underlying
machine works will help you immeasurably in learning and effectively
using any programming language.

[Walter Bright]

Zootal wrote:

What is D?

www.digitalmars.com/d/

[Zootal]

"Walter Bright" <wa****@digitalmars-nospamm.com> wrote in message
news:PK********************@comcast.com...

Zootal wrote:

What is D?

www.digitalmars.com/d/

Very interesting. Very interesting indeed. How serious is this effort, how
likely is it that it will take off and achieve wide acceptance? How many are
using it now?

[Walter Bright]

Zootal wrote:

"Walter Bright" <wa****@digitalmars-nospamm.com> wrote in message
news:PK********************@comcast.com...

Zootal wrote:

What is D? www.digitalmars.com/d/

Very interesting. Very interesting indeed. How serious is this effort,

As serious as it gets. A lot of people have devoted thousands of hours
apiece to it. Check out the community at news.digitalmars.com.
how
likely is it that it will take off and achieve wide acceptance? How many are
using it now?

It's moved up to #19 now. That means it has quite a lot of activity
associated with it: http://www.tiobe.com/tpci.htm

[Victor Bazarov]

Walter Bright wrote:

Zootal wrote:

"Walter Bright" <wa****@digitalmars-nospamm.com> wrote in message
news:PK********************@comcast.com...

Zootal wrote:
What is D?
www.digitalmars.com/d/

Very interesting. Very interesting indeed. How serious is this
effort,

As serious as it gets. A lot of people have devoted thousands of hours
apiece to it. Check out the community at news.digitalmars.com.

how
likely is it that it will take off and achieve wide acceptance? How
many are using it now?

It's moved up to #19 now. That means it has quite a lot of activity
associated with it: http://www.tiobe.com/tpci.htm

Would you kindly take this discussion elsewhere?

[Jack Klein]

On Tue, 2 May 2006 09:03:35 -0700, "Zootal" <nousenetspam at dead ice
dot us> wrote in comp.lang.c++:

My apologies if this gets asked/discussed a lot. With c# rampaging through

^^^^^^^^^
According to http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=rampage:

ram·page
n.

A course of violent, frenzied behavior or action.
intr.v. ram·paged, ram·pag·ing, ram·pag·es (also rm-pj)

To move about wildly or violently.

....and my favorite:

n : violently angry and destructive behavior [syn: violent disorder]
v : act violently, recklessly, or destructively

How very apt, but please don't feed the trolls. Remember language
comparisons are OT here, except perhaps between C++ and C.

--
Jack Klein
Home: http://JK-Technology.Com
FAQs for
comp.lang.c http://c-faq.com/
comp.lang.c++ http://www.parashift.com/c++-faq-lite/
alt.comp.lang.learn.c-c++
http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~a...FAQ-acllc.html

[Gernot Frisch]

If you really want a leg up, learn assembler. Knowing how the
underlying
machine works will help you immeasurably in learning and effectively
using any programming language.

You ment that cynically, but I agree. If you know about assembler, you
can optimize smal code portions more efficiently. However, if this
really pays these days is another question...

[Walter Bright]

Gernot Frisch wrote:

If you really want a leg up, learn assembler. Knowing how the
underlying
machine works will help you immeasurably in learning and effectively
using any programming language.

You ment that cynically, but I agree. If you know about assembler, you
can optimize smal code portions more efficiently. However, if this
really pays these days is another question...

I didn't mean it cynically at all. As to whether it pays or not, that
depends on if you're willing to settle for second rate or not <g>.

[wkaras]

Jack Klein wrote:
....

Remember language
comparisons are OT here, except perhaps between C++ and C.

....

Why is that? Also, how does one become the moderator of
an unmoderated newsgroup, especially when there is
already a moderated version of that newgroup?

Anybody, is there a web-based newsreader that allows one to
filter certain posters? That way, you can avoid seeing what
you don't like, and I can avoid seeing you not like it.

[Phlip]

wk****@yahoo.com wrote:

Jack Klein wrote:
...

Remember language
comparisons are OT here, except perhaps between C++ and C.

...

Why is that?

Obviously: Because some other language might win!!

;-)

--
Phlip
http://www.greencheese.us/ZeekLand <-- NOT a blog!!!

[Yan]

IMHO it's the other way around - knowing C++ will help you learn C# or
Java just as knowing how to drive a big trailer will help you learn to
drive a small economy car.

[REH]

Phlip wrote:

wk****@yahoo.com wrote:

Jack Klein wrote:
...

Remember language
comparisons are OT here, except perhaps between C++ and C.

...

Why is that?

Obviously: Because some other language might win!!

;-)

If you dislike C++ so much, why do you even bother subscribing to this
news group?

REH

[Phlip]

REH wrote:

Phlip wrote:

wk****@yahoo.com wrote:

> Jack Klein wrote:
> ...
>> Remember language
>> comparisons are OT here, except perhaps between C++ and C.
> ...
>
> Why is that?
Obviously: Because some other language might win!!

;-)

If you dislike C++ so much, why do you even bother subscribing to this
news group?

I give C++ tough love.

The joke there is more subtle. If Klein were worried C++ might lose, he
might declare comparisons off topic. Get it?

--
Phlip
http://www.greencheese.us/ZeekLand <-- NOT a blog!!!

[REH]

Phlip wrote:

REH wrote:

If you dislike C++ so much, why do you even bother subscribing to this
news group?

I give C++ tough love.

The joke there is more subtle. If Klein were worried C++ might lose, he
might declare comparisons off topic. Get it?

I'm not trying to argue with you, and I doubt Mr. Klein's issue is C++
losing a (silly) battle with C. I was just truly curious as to why you
frequent a newsgroup devoted to a language you so obviously hate.

REH

[Phlip]

REH wrote:

I give C++ tough love.

I'm not trying to argue with you, and I doubt Mr. Klein's issue is C++
losing a (silly) battle with C. I was just truly curious as to why you
frequent a newsgroup devoted to a language you so obviously hate.

I don't hate it. Part of learning C++ is learning its risks, traps, and
abuses, and learning when not to use it.

Moreso than other languages... ;-)

--
Phlip
http://www.greencheese.us/ZeekLand <-- NOT a blog!!!

[Josh Falter]

To answer the original question, they are in 2 very different arenas.
C++ is not going anywhere as far as serious desktop developement is
concerned. Vista is being written in C/C++. Any real desktop app is
written in C++. Similarly, C# now has a huge market share (along with
J2EE) in the web area, and is not going anywhere anytime soon.

Learn what you like. If you want to work at a programming job filled
with the agony and ecstasy that is hardcore desktop programming, dig
into C and C++. If you like the web and would like to work on web type
applications, then C# / Java is for you.

Regardless, C# will have no effect on C++

[Mirco Wahab]

Hi Zootal

Out there in the real world, what kind of a
future does c++ have?

Almost all of these exciting and nifty
things that "surely will replace C or C++"
are (imho) written in C or C++ or
run on libraries written in C or C++.

These are 'shovels' for people that
want to or have to do the hard work
with them - other peoples work would
be more like 'shovel constructing'.

What, for example, is a 'real world'
Java VM written in?

my 1/50 €

M.

[Ian Collins]

Mirco Wahab wrote:

Hi Zootal

Out there in the real world, what kind of a
future does c++ have?

Almost all of these exciting and nifty
things that "surely will replace C or C++"
are (imho) written in C or C++ or
run on libraries written in C or C++.

These are 'shovels' for people that
want to or have to do the hard work
with them - other peoples work would
be more like 'shovel constructing'.

What, for example, is a 'real world'
Java VM written in?

Don't go there - IBM have one written in Java :)

--
Ian Collins.