Structs in Java

[Rick]

Hi,

We all know that Java has classes but how about basic storage objects like
structs? C and C++ have Structs, Pascal has Records, Visual Basic has Types
etc. How about Java?

Greetings,
Rick

[Rick]

Sorry, posted in the wrong newsgroup per accident! Should be in the Java.
Sorry!

Rick

[Christian Bau]

In article <3f***********************@news.xs4all.nl>,
"Rick" <as******@hotmail.com> wrote:

Hi,

We all know that Java has classes but how about basic storage objects like
structs? C and C++ have Structs, Pascal has Records, Visual Basic has Types
etc. How about Java?

Ask in comp.lang.java.
Better yet, find the FAQ of comp.lang.java.

[Joona I Palaste]

Christian Bau <ch***********@cbau.freeserve.co.uk> scribbled the following:

In article <3f***********************@news.xs4all.nl>,
"Rick" <as******@hotmail.com> wrote:

Hi,

We all know that Java has classes but how about basic storage objects like
structs? C and C++ have Structs, Pascal has Records, Visual Basic has Types
etc. How about Java?

Ask in comp.lang.java.
Better yet, find the FAQ of comp.lang.java.

No, don't. comp.lang.java is an obsolete newsgroup. Use
comp.lang.java.programmer.

--
/-- Joona Palaste (pa*****@cc.helsinki.fi) ------------- Finland --------\
\-- http://www.helsinki.fi/~palaste --------------------- rules! --------/
"To know me IS to love me."
- JIPsoft

[Rick]

Ok, I asked it a Java newsgroup. They told me something which made me doubt
so I was thinking, the C guys here will probably know the absolute answer.
Java didn't had structs, ok. But everyone on that newsgroup also said that
Classes are just the same as structs... Call me Joe but this ain't 100%
right is it? A class is probably for a huge part based on the good old
struct but vice, versa, a struct ain't a class. Am I right?

Sorry if this is off-topic.
Greetings,
Rick

[Joona I Palaste]

Rick <as******@hotmail.com> scribbled the following:

Ok, I asked it a Java newsgroup. They told me something which made me doubt
so I was thinking, the C guys here will probably know the absolute answer.
Java didn't had structs, ok. But everyone on that newsgroup also said that
Classes are just the same as structs... Call me Joe but this ain't 100%
right is it? A class is probably for a huge part based on the good old
struct but vice, versa, a struct ain't a class. Am I right?

You're right structs and classes are not the same thing. A Java class
consisting only of fields, but not methods, can be seen as a C-style
struct, but C structs don't have all the functionality Java classes can,
for example polymorphism.

--
/-- Joona Palaste (pa*****@cc.helsinki.fi) ------------- Finland --------\
\-- http://www.helsinki.fi/~palaste --------------------- rules! --------/
"It sure is cool having money and chicks."
- Beavis and Butt-head

[Chris Torek]

In article <3f***********************@news.xs4all.nl>
Rick <as******@hotmail.com> wrote:

Ok, I asked it a Java newsgroup. They told me something which made me doubt
so I was thinking, the C guys here will probably know the absolute answer.
Java didn't had structs, ok. But everyone on that newsgroup also said that
Classes are just the same as structs... Call me Joe but this ain't 100%
right is it? A class is probably for a huge part based on the good old
struct but vice, versa, a struct ain't a class. Am I right?

In C, "class" is just an ordinary identifier:

char *class = "1981";

so this is indeed enormously different from "struct".

There is another language that looks about as much like C as Java
does that *does* have a "class" keyword, and in this other language,
"struct" just means "class { public:". But the people who like to
talk about this other language meet over in comp.lang.c++; there,
you can get a much better answer about the similarities and
differences between "class" and "struct".
--
In-Real-Life: Chris Torek, Wind River Systems
Salt Lake City, UT, USA (40°39.22'N, 111°50.29'W) [phone]
email: forget about it http://67.40.109.61/torek/index.html (for the moment)
Reading email is like searching for food in the garbage, thanks to spammers.

[Glen Herrmannsfeldt]

"Chris Torek" <no****@elf.eng.bsdi.com> wrote in message
news:bo**********@elf.eng.bsdi.com...

In article <3f***********************@news.xs4all.nl>
Rick <as******@hotmail.com> wrote:
(snip)

Java didn't had structs, ok. But everyone on that newsgroup also said thatClasses are just the same as structs... Call me Joe but this ain't 100%
right is it? A class is probably for a huge part based on the good old
struct but vice, versa, a struct ain't a class. Am I right?

(snip) There is another language that looks about as much like C as Java
does that *does* have a "class" keyword, and in this other language,
"struct" just means "class { public:". But the people who like to
talk about this other language meet over in comp.lang.c++; there,
you can get a much better answer about the similarities and
differences between "class" and "struct".

I believe that Java is somewhat more C like than C++ is. My guess is that
C++ tried to be different from C, and Java intentionally tried to be more
like C when it was possible. I especially don't like the << and >>
operators in C++.

-- glen

[DBTID]

Rick <as******@hotmail.com> wrote:

Hi, We all know that Java has classes but how about basic storage objects like
structs? C and C++ have Structs, Pascal has Records, Visual Basic has Types
etc. How about Java? Greetings,
Rick

And you didn't post this in comp.lang.java because ... ???

[Joona I Palaste]

DBTID <db***@nospam.dbtid.is-a-geek.org> scribbled the following:

Rick <as******@hotmail.com> wrote:

Hi, We all know that Java has classes but how about basic storage objects like
structs? C and C++ have Structs, Pascal has Records, Visual Basic has Types
etc. How about Java? Greetings,
Rick

And you didn't post this in comp.lang.java because ... ???

Well, for one thing, because it's an obsolete newsgroup.
Now, Rick didn't post this in comp.lang.java.programmer because... ???

--
/-- Joona Palaste (pa*****@cc.helsinki.fi) ------------- Finland --------\
\-- http://www.helsinki.fi/~palaste --------------------- rules! --------/
"O pointy birds, O pointy-pointy. Anoint my head, anointy-nointy."
- Dr. Michael Hfuhruhurr

[Rick]

Damn it, the only thing I read on this newsgroup is
"this is off-topic"
"post it somewhere else"
"you're stupid"
"I'm a better programmer than you"

Yeah yeah, I know there's lots of posting here and if everyone just postes
what he wants it gets a huge mess. True! But come on, it's as if everyone
first reads the messages to detect some word to bitch on. If it depends on
some of you I can post my stuff nowhere because none of the 10 million
newsgroups is exactly suitable. Stop that, don't be such nerds and stop
saying to others that they are stupid because they missed one pointer or
whatever. Helping each other is ment to be fun, but on this particular
newsgroup most of the C gurus here seem to be grumphy all day?! If you don't
really like to help, than don't.

I posted that on the 'obsolete' java newsgroup indeed. So what? Noone cares
there, I got helped, we had a little discussion about structs and shit and
it was fun. Next time I help one of them. I use lot's of newsgroups and of
course I just don't post anything but this is ridiculous. I've always been
helped friendly everywhere except here. In almost every post someone is
bitching (and not only my own posts). And then it get's repeated 100 times.
Well wiseguys, that's even more off-topic in my eyes. Their are nicer ways
to tell someone is wrong. Here I often get the feeling that the elite C
gurus are laughing at the rookies and are trying to 'bully' them away with
silent hints. Come on man, help the poor guys. Here I'm a total newbie in C
comparing to most others. But on some other newsgroup I obviously know more
than the average user. Instead of calling them stupid I always love to help
them, no matter what their question is, damn it's almost as in doctor Phill.
So what if it's a little bit off-topic? The world is larger then C right?

Ok, I said my word. Nevertheless, I appreciete all the help. And by the way,
I'm not picking specificly on you Joona, it's just my overall impression
about this newsgroup. Let's say a friendlier athmosphere would be good for
this group. Make love, not war.

Have a nice day,
Rick

[Joona I Palaste]

Rick <as******@hotmail.com> scribbled the following:

Damn it, the only thing I read on this newsgroup is
"this is off-topic"
We say this.
"post it somewhere else"
And we say this.
"you're stupid"
But we don't say this.
"I'm a better programmer than you"
And we don't say this either.
Yeah yeah, I know there's lots of posting here and if everyone just postes
what he wants it gets a huge mess. True! But come on, it's as if everyone
first reads the messages to detect some word to bitch on. If it depends on
some of you I can post my stuff nowhere because none of the 10 million
newsgroups is exactly suitable. Stop that, don't be such nerds and stop
saying to others that they are stupid because they missed one pointer or
whatever. Helping each other is ment to be fun, but on this particular
newsgroup most of the C gurus here seem to be grumphy all day?! If you don't
really like to help, than don't.

You seem to be in need of a sever attitude readjustement. We don't
think we're better programmers, or better people, because we only
discuss standard C. It's simply what this newsgroup is all about.
Do you yourself think comp.lang.c is for discussing Java? Which part
of "comp.lang.c" mentions Java anywhere?
If you still think we said we're better programmers than you, or that
you are stupid, please point out the exact place we've said that.

(Rest snipped)

--
/-- Joona Palaste (pa*****@cc.helsinki.fi) ------------- Finland --------\
\-- http://www.helsinki.fi/~palaste --------------------- rules! --------/
"This is a personnel commuter."
- Train driver in Scientific American

[Rick]

Hi,

Well, the examples are not directly said. I'm not a genious reader but just
from reading lot's of messages here I notice it. I never noticed it in
another
newsgroup before so I'm not talking crazy crap. Of course they don't say it
directly
like "case: I am > you;" and I'm not saying you're doing that as well. But
there certainly are some examples. I'm not going to copy paste or throw
names but
here's a simulation:

"Hi, my name is Timmy, I'm 7 years old and I'm new to C. I need to program
a rocket defense system. It's almost done but now I'm stuck with <blabla>
here's a code snippet : ...>"
Most answers are seriously trying to help the poor kid but often I also see
reactions like these :
"It's really obvious, what do you think?!"
// Damn, if I knew it I wouldn't post it wiseguy!
"Sigh, here we go again, post it at rocket.lang.c"
// I really readed that 'sigh' stuff before (not your reaction)! Don't
do that!
"That's what seperates the REAL programmers from the amateurs..."
// Yeah yeah, so you must be mister Miyagi at C? (context reading)
"Using function xyz is not too smart!" and then it get repeated 10 times
// ok, thanks for pointing but I knew it after this is already the sixth
time somebody said it

There's nothing wrong with the sentences on it self but among with the
context
I detect some...cockyness(shit, I don't know the right englisch words :[,
englisch is not
my native language (neither is C)). As I said, there are nicer ways to help.

Another example, when I posted my first thing I was using C for 2 weeks. So,
no wonder
that I have some dumb questions then, pointers and stuff are not easy if
you're
used to do Delphi or something! Anyway, I placed a simple question and then
I get
a dozen of answers. Most of them are good but there are also a few people
who had
to add that I should know this and are explaining the problem in Techno
Language.
Then there's also some wiseguy who tries to prove I didn't copy paste my
code
snippet from the internet. Who cares?! Does it really matter if it's copy
pasted
or not? I typed it over so there was a tiny error inside. That's no big deal
but
the guy keeps pooping ( "did not!", "did too!" etc. etc. "STOP!" ).

Hey, and here some copy pastes! :
"A random Google sample shows him to be a thoughtless, boorish troll,
who
attempts to elevate repetition into a virtue, and who clearly doesn't
understand C. Sorry, but I don't share your apparent "admiration" for
this
character."
// don't know exactly where it's all about, maybe the guy is right but
man, please let the
// "and who clearly doesn't understand C" away

Here's something about the repeating, a 'newbie' asked something and get's
as a first (friendly) answer he'd be better off in another newsgroup. But
then some other dude feels he just had to post it again, right after the
previous answer.
"again, as you were told, you will have much better help in a
MS Windows newsgroup or a newsgroup about your compiler."
// And this was the only stuff in the post so it didn't add much. If you
care about heavy
// internet traffic then messages like this shouldn't be placed again
and again.

Or take a look at the "ANSI C compliance" post. It was a bit off topic so
here we go again, a dozen of 'angry' men picking at each other. Really cozy
newsgroup this is.

Some of you are reading the posts too precisely. If there's a wrong
character
because I spelled my name wrong or the post isn't 100% alt.lang.c, 1 or 2
guys
are feeling they need to start about it. And not one post, nononoo, it often
get's repeated as if the other guy has a IQ of <32. Enough examples, and
maybe
I'm a little bit whining myself but the point is, posting something here is
not
fun, especially when you are a newbie. I sure can take critic, I'm happy if
somebody
is trying to help me out. But here you'll have to watch on every digit you
type!
One wrong thing and there's an army of nerds yelling! How the heck was I
supposed
to know that xyz<>abc! On other newsgroups I can post 'whatever' I want and
they keep friendly. And if it's a little bit off-topic, no problemo, a
little variation can be fun as well.

Of course I know there are boundaries, I won't post pictures of my naked but
and grandpa's stories
about WO1 here but please don't pick out every wrong detail or 'misplaced'
post. It's ruining
the mood in my opinion. Maybe I'm spoiled and I shouldn't complain but I
just have seen much
nicer newsgroups than this one. Too bad, because I know there are talented C
people hanging
around here. I hope it's a little bit clear now.

Greetings,
Rick

[Keith Thompson]

"Rick" <as******@hotmail.com> writes:
[...]

Another example, when I posted my first thing I was using C for 2
weeks. So, no wonder that I have some dumb questions then, pointers
and stuff are not easy if you're used to do Delphi or something!
Anyway, I placed a simple question and then I get a dozen of
answers. Most of them are good but there are also a few people who had
to add that I should know this and are explaining the problem in
Techno Language. Then there's also some wiseguy who tries to prove I
didn't copy paste my code snippet from the internet. Who cares?! Does
it really matter if it's copy pasted or not? I typed it over so there
was a tiny error inside. That's no big deal but the guy keeps pooping
( "did not!", "did too!" etc. etc. "STOP!" ).

At least some of the repetition is caused by the fact that this is an
asynchronous medium. It takes time for articles to propagate.
Someone asks a question with a more or less obvious answer. Multiple
people reply before seeing that everyone else is doing it. (And I,
for one, have a big enough ego that I'm not always willing to sit back
and wait for someone else's answer, especially if I think I have some
insight that someone else might miss.)

Another factor is a general unwillingless to let misinformation,
deliberate or otherwise, go unanswered.

As for the copy-and-paste issue, a lot of the questions asked here are
about subtle errors in source code. We take a look at the posted code
and find errors in it; how are we supposed to know whether those
errors are in your original code or were introduced when you re-typed
it?

For example, if you post something like

if (x = 0) {
printf("x is zero\n");
}

and ask why x is never zero, I'll tell you that it's because you used
"=" instead of "==". If you reply that of course you had "==" in your
original program, you just mis-typed it, I'll remind you to
cut-and-paste the exact code next time so we can tell you what the
real problem is.

Cut-and-paste is easier than re-typing anyway.

The dynamics of this newsgroup are such that it's easy to keep a
discussion going, but very difficult to stop one. There are oodles of
regular readers, and dozens who post regularly. Stopping a discussion
requires all of them to agree to stop posting about it. It does
happen sometimes, but probably not as often as it should. Threaded
newsreaders help.

Rick, I'm not saying you don't have some valid points, I'm just trying
to help you understand why things are the way they are.

--
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) ks*@cts.com <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
San Diego Supercomputer Center <*> <http://www.sdsc.edu/~kst>
Schroedinger does Shakespeare: "To be *and* not to be"

[Glen Herrmannsfeldt]

"Rick" <as******@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3f***********************@news.xs4all.nl...

Hi,

We all know that Java has classes but how about basic storage objects like
structs? C and C++ have Structs, Pascal has Records, Visual Basic has Types etc. How about Java?

You can have methodless (except for the constructor) classes. There is a
difference, though, between Java and C++ in this case. If you reference a
class from inside another class you get Object reference variables:

class Point {
int x,y;
}

class Line {
Point one, two;
}
A C struct, or, as I understand, C++ class, will allocate memory for two
Point's in a line. Java will allocate two Point reference variables. The
Point objects will have to be created separately.

-- glen

[Rick]

I feel much better already :) Let's contineu C.

Greetings,
Rick

[Nudge]

Rick wrote:

Sorry, posted in the wrong newsgroup per accident! Should be in the Java.

Once you realize your mistake, you can cancel a post, you know...

[Keith Thompson]

Nudge <de*****@kma.eu.org> writes:

Rick wrote:

Sorry, posted in the wrong newsgroup per accident! Should be in the Java.

Once you realize your mistake, you can cancel a post, you know...

You can try. Many servers don't recognize cancels.

--
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) ks***@mib.org <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
San Diego Supercomputer Center <*> <http://www.sdsc.edu/~kst>
Schroedinger does Shakespeare: "To be *and* not to be"
(Note new e-mail address)

[nobody]

"Keith Thompson" <ks***@mib.org> wrote in message
news:ks************@nuthaus.mib.org...

Nudge <de*****@kma.eu.org> writes:

Rick wrote:

Sorry, posted in the wrong newsgroup per accident! Should be in the

Java.
Once you realize your mistake, you can cancel a post, you know...

You can try. Many servers don't recognize cancels.

Do you mean that some *do* ?