programming without framework ?

[theDever]

hi ..

I was used VB, Java, PHP and C# to developed my own software , but now
I have a project in C++ , and I'm a bit confused ...

In PHP,C# and Java , there are a framework that provide a wide range of
functions and utilities ( like networking functions, XML parsing,
RegExp ..etc )so I want to ask you people , how could you develop a
software in C++ without a framework ?

I was looking in a C++ reference, I couldn't see anything except the
math functions, time, date, memory allocation and some other functions
, with those functions I think it's impossible (for me at least) to
develop a real software ..

I know that C++ is one of the greatest programming language, so I think
that I'm missing some thing, please, can anyone tell me what is it ?

( sorry for my broken English , I'm not a naïve speaker *_* )

[Phlip]

theDever wrote:

In PHP,C# and Java , there are a framework that provide a wide range of
functions and utilities ( like networking functions, XML parsing,
RegExp ..etc )so I want to ask you people , how could you develop a
software in C++ without a framework ?
You get a framework. The joy of C++ is we don't ram one down your throat.

I recommend wxWidgets because:

- it's free as in "free speech"
- it has regexp, networking, nice GUIs, etc.
- it's free as in "free beer"
- it's a coherent framework
- it has a great community and thousands of features
- I can figure out how to compile it.
I was looking in a C++ reference, I couldn't see anything except the
math functions, time, date, memory allocation and some other functions
, with those functions I think it's impossible (for me at least) to
develop a real software ..

Right. Those are the only things that The C++ Standard _requires_ all C++
implementations to support. ISO cannot enforce a single framework because
that would diminish C++'s ability to run on as many different platforms as
possible. You won't find PHP inside a wrist-watch, for example...

--
Phlip
http://www.c2.com/cgi/wiki?ZeekLand

[Sensei]

theDever wrote:

I was looking in a C++ reference, I couldn't see anything except the
math functions, time, date, memory allocation and some other functions
, with those functions I think it's impossible (for me at least) to
develop a real software ..

I know that C++ is one of the greatest programming language, so I think
that I'm missing some thing, please, can anyone tell me what is it ?

C++ is a language. Frameworks are libraries providing functionalities.
Keeping the standard minimal is a must, providing easy to maintain and
port functionalities, among many other pros.

C++ has a standard library under a namespace std that provides all you
want, from i/o to high-level functionalities such as queues, lists,
vectors & co. If you want more, like XML, regular expressions, graphics,
and whatever you can imagine, use a library. Thousands of C++ libraries
are out there.

I suggest the Qt library, easy, multiplatform (*really* code once,
compile wherever you want), GPL on every platform, has graphics,
network, i/o, native GUI and sooooooo many other things. Easy to learn,
cute to see code... not like microsoft MFC using //AFX_WHATEVER... not
as a comment but as an interpreted compile-time string.

There are also Fox Toolkit, wxWindows, Boost (not multipurpose
gui/net/..., useful anyway), are the first that come in my mind.

[John Carson]

"theDever" <th******@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:11**********************@g47g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com

hi ..

I was used VB, Java, PHP and C# to developed my own software , but now
I have a project in C++ , and I'm a bit confused ...

In PHP,C# and Java , there are a framework that provide a wide range
of functions and utilities ( like networking functions, XML parsing,
RegExp ..etc )so I want to ask you people , how could you develop a
software in C++ without a framework ?

You use third party libraries. For things that are simply computational, you
can generally use platform independent libraries. The Boost library,

http://www.boost.org/

contains regular expressions and many other facilities. For things that are
operating system specific (GUI stuff, for example), you generally have a
choice between using the libraries supplied by the operating system (e.g.,
the Win32 API for Microsoft Windows) or else third party libraries that
abstract the facilities of several operating systems and present a common
programming interface, e.g., wxWidgets

http://www.wxwindows.org/
--
John Carson

[Lionel]

Sensei wrote:

I suggest the Qt library, easy, multiplatform (*really* code once,
compile wherever you want), GPL on every platform, has graphics,
network, i/o, native GUI and sooooooo many other things. Easy to learn,
cute to see code... not like microsoft MFC using //AFX_WHATEVER... not
as a comment but as an interpreted compile-time string.

Qt is great! I use it for writing prototypes at work. However, I only
use it on Linux, what is the story with it in Windows? As far as I have
seen the licensing is horrible in windows and I didn't think it was
being supported anymore?

Lionel.

[babyfrog]

someone like qt and someone like wxwindows but i prefer gtk+~~

[Lionel]

Lionel wrote:

Sensei wrote:

I suggest the Qt library, easy, multiplatform (*really* code once,
compile wherever you want), GPL on every platform, has graphics,
network, i/o, native GUI and sooooooo many other things. Easy to
learn, cute to see code... not like microsoft MFC using
//AFX_WHATEVER... not as a comment but as an interpreted compile-time
string.

Qt is great! I use it for writing prototypes at work. However, I only
use it on Linux, what is the story with it in Windows? As far as I have
seen the licensing is horrible in windows and I didn't think it was
being supported anymore?

Went searching and discovered you can get the open source version for
Windows, clearly this is one that comes with my OS.

Lionel.

[Alf P. Steinbach]

* Phlip:

I recommend wxWidgets
At the moment Google doesn't find the vxWidgets home page. Google isn't
quite what it was. The homepage: <url: http://wxwidgets.org/>.

Right. Those are the only things that The C++ Standard _requires_ all C++
implementations to support. ISO cannot enforce a single framework because
that would diminish C++'s ability to run on as many different platforms as
possible. You won't find PHP inside a wrist-watch, for example...

Bah! Inside a modern wrist-watch you'll find a Java VM, a .NET VM, support
for ECMAScript and PHP, at least one anti-virus package, and a COBOL compiler.
That's the modern wrist-watch.

--
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is it such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?

[Lionel]

Alf P. Steinbach wrote:

* Phlip:

I recommend wxWidgets

At the moment Google doesn't find the vxWidgets home page. Google isn't
quite what it was. The homepage: <url: http://wxwidgets.org/>.

That's funny, I typed it into the address bar of firefox and there it
was! i.e. google finds it using the I'm feeling lucky search.

at least one anti-virus package.

Only if the watch is running windoze

[Phlip]

Alf P. Steinbach wrote:

At the moment Google doesn't find the vxWidgets home page.
vxWidgets?

v ?

babyfrog wrote:
someone like qt and someone like wxwindows but i prefer gtk+~~

Gtk+ is for C. It builds a dynamic typing layer from scratch, and working
with it is an experience remarkably similar to tea-bagging a blender.

But I use Gimp, its flagship application, all the time...

--
Phlip
http://www.c2.com/cgi/wiki?ZeekLand

[upashu2]

>>what is the story with it in Windows?
For windows , there is MFC, a popular framework and libaray .
And Boroland C++ also comes with own framework on windows system.

[theDever]

Thank you to all you guys
Phlip, Sensei, John Carson , Lionel, babyfrog, Alf P. Steinbach and
upashu2

I'm reding now comparisons between Qt,wxWindows and MFC and these are
the links :
- MFC vs Qt : http://phil.freehackers.org/kde/qt-vs-mfc.html
- wxWindows vs. MFC :
http://developers.slashdot.org/artic.../07/15/2058200

Also I found a framework called ACF (Another C++ Framework) :
http://acfproj.sourceforge.net/
I think it's nice ...

thank you again and I Appreciate your help ...

[babyfrog]

if you work on windows i suggest mfc and wxwindows
if you work on unix/linux i suggest wxwindows and qt

[Lionel]

theDever wrote:

Thank you to all you guys
Phlip, Sensei, John Carson , Lionel, babyfrog, Alf P. Steinbach and
upashu2

I'm reding now comparisons between Qt,wxWindows and MFC and these are
the links :
- MFC vs Qt : http://phil.freehackers.org/kde/qt-vs-mfc.html
- wxWindows vs. MFC :
http://developers.slashdot.org/artic.../07/15/2058200

Also I found a framework called ACF (Another C++ Framework) :
http://acfproj.sourceforge.net/
I think it's nice ...

thank you again and I Appreciate your help ...

Personally I would choose Qt just because all the others appear to be
Windows only (from my brief look at the above links). IMO all software
should be written to operate on any OS, what's the purpose in only
targeting a portion of the total market, and what's the purpose in
supporting a monopoly?

Lionel.

[Sensei]

Lionel wrote:

Qt is great! I use it for writing prototypes at work. However, I only
use it on Linux, what is the story with it in Windows? As far as I have
seen the licensing is horrible in windows and I didn't think it was
being supported anymore?

Qt 4 is GPL now under every OS. Qt 3 is free under academic license.

The best advantage of Qt is a very nice C++ adeherence and it
signal-slot paradigm which is very neat. I personally use Qt and
wxWindows/GTK are less... developer-friendly :)

[Alan Johnson]

Lionel wrote:

Personally I would choose Qt just because all the others appear to be
Windows only (from my brief look at the above links). IMO all software
should be written to operate on any OS, what's the purpose in only
targeting a portion of the total market, and what's the purpose in
supporting a monopoly?

Lionel.

It's a business decision. There is a real cost associated with making a
software product portable between platforms. This cost may come in the
form of extra time testing/debugging, hiring programmers who know how to
code portably, or any number of other things. If the benefit you expect
to gain by making your product run on a platform is less than the cost
of making it run on that platform, then it is a poor business decision.

[Lionel]

Alan Johnson wrote:

It's a business decision. There is a real cost associated with making a
software product portable between platforms. This cost may come in the
form of extra time testing/debugging, hiring programmers who know how to
code portably, or any number of other things. If the benefit you expect
to gain by making your product run on a platform is less than the cost
of making it run on that platform, then it is a poor business decision.

It's a sad fact because it is minimising competition. In the longer term
I think it would be advantageous even from a business point of view to
support as many OS's as possible.

Lionel.

[Lionel]

Sensei wrote:

Lionel wrote:

Qt is great! I use it for writing prototypes at work. However, I only
use it on Linux, what is the story with it in Windows? As far as I
have seen the licensing is horrible in windows and I didn't think it
was being supported anymore?

Qt 4 is GPL now under every OS. Qt 3 is free under academic license.

The best advantage of Qt is a very nice C++ adeherence and it
signal-slot paradigm which is very neat. I personally use Qt and
wxWindows/GTK are less... developer-friendly :)

I use Qt for even creating automatic test_suites. Although it has been
about 2 years since I touched Visual Studio, I find Qt to be faster to
develop in, particularly because of the signal-slot paradigm, it is very
neat, though I have some minor complaints.