frand

[void main]

When porting a program to MS-Windows I got a redefinition error
on "frand" (already defined in stdlib.h).

Is it legal if I use "frand" in a source file if stlib.h is not
included there?

[Keith Thompson]

void main <no****@nospam. invalidwrites:

When porting a program to MS-Windows I got a redefinition error
on "frand" (already defined in stdlib.h).

Is it legal if I use "frand" in a source file if stlib.h is not
included there?

Yes.

There is no standard C function called "frand". (There are functions
"rand" and "srand").

If a compiler, invoked in conforming mode, complains about you
defining a function called "frand", that's a flaw in the compiler.
I suggest you submit a bug report.

If you're invoking the compiler in non-conforming mode, then you
probably have no grounds for complaint, though you're free to complain
anyway.

--
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keit h) ks***@mib.org <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
Nokia
"We must do something. This is something. Therefore, we must do this."
-- Antony Jay and Jonathan Lynn, "Yes Minister"

[Ben Bacarisse]

void main <no****@nospam. invalidwrites:

When porting a program to MS-Windows I got a redefinition error
on "frand" (already defined in stdlib.h).

Is it legal if I use "frand" in a source file if stlib.h is not
included there?

Yes.

Something tells me I am supposed to add that you can use frand even
when you do include stdlib.h, but I suspect you know that. If you
*don't* know that, get a copy of the C standard[1]. It tells you what
identifiers are reserved and where, if at all, they are declared or
defined.

[1] For example, a draft is available at:
http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg...docs/n1256.pdf

--
Ben.

[void main]

Keith Thompson wrote:

void main <no****@nospam. invalidwrites:

>When porting a program to MS-Windows I got a redefinition error
on "frand" (already defined in stdlib.h).

Is it legal if I use "frand" in a source file if stlib.h is not
included there?

Yes.

There is no standard C function called "frand". (There are functions
"rand" and "srand").

If a compiler, invoked in conforming mode, complains about you
defining a function called "frand", that's a flaw in the compiler.
I suggest you submit a bug report.

If you're invoking the compiler in non-conforming mode, then you
probably have no grounds for complaint, though you're free to complain
anyway.

Thanks but I need a really portable solution. I solved it like this

#define frand xyz
#include <stdlib.h>
#undef frand

Is that good practice?

[CBFalconer]

void main wrote:

Keith Thompson wrote:

>void main <no****@nospam. invalidwrites:

>>When porting a program to MS-Windows I got a redefinition error
on "frand" (already defined in stdlib.h).

Is it legal if I use "frand" in a source file if stlib.h is not
included there?

Yes.

There is no standard C function called "frand". (There are
functions "rand" and "srand").

If a compiler, invoked in conforming mode, complains about you
defining a function called "frand", that's a flaw in the compiler.
I suggest you submit a bug report.

If you're invoking the compiler in non-conforming mode, then you
probably have no grounds for complaint, though you're free to
complain anyway.

Thanks but I need a really portable solution. I solved it like this

#define frand xyz
#include <stdlib.h>
#undef frand

Is that good practice?

No. If the compiler writer has ignored the standard, you have no
idea why and what is affected. A better temporary step is to
replace *your* use of frand by something else. And you should make
loud and insistent bug reports to the compiler marketer and insist
the bug be fixed.

--
[mail]: Chuck F (cbfalconer at maineline dot net)
[page]: <http://cbfalconer.home .att.net>
Try the download section.

[user923005]

On Jul 6, 6:54*pm, CBFalconer <cbfalco...@yah oo.comwrote:

void main wrote:

Keith Thompson wrote:

void main <nos...@nospam. invalidwrites:

>When porting a program to MS-Windows I got a redefinition error
on "frand" (already defined in stdlib.h).

>Is it legal if I use "frand" in a source file if stlib.h is not
included there?

Yes.

There is no standard C function called "frand". *(There are
functions "rand" and "srand").

If a compiler, invoked in conforming mode, complains about you
defining a function called "frand", that's a flaw in the compiler.
I suggest you submit a bug report.

If you're invoking the compiler in non-conforming mode, then you
probably have no grounds for complaint, though you're free to
complain anyway.

Thanks but I need a really portable solution. I solved it like this

#define frand xyz
#include <stdlib.h>
#undef frand

Is that good practice?

No. *If the compiler writer has ignored the standard, you have no
idea why and what is affected. *A better temporary step is to
replace *your* use of frand by something else. *And you should make
loud and insistent bug reports to the compiler marketer and insist
the bug be fixed.

There is no frand() in any of the Microsoft standard headers. E.g.:
C:\Program Files (x86)\Microsoft Visual Studio 8\VC\include>c: \utils
\grep.exe frand *.h

C:\Program Files (x86)\Microsoft Visual Studio 8\VC\include>

The fact that his name is "void main" just might possibly be a clue
that this is a troll.

[santosh]

user923005 wrote:

On Jul 6, 6:54*pm, CBFalconer <cbfalco...@yah oo.comwrote:

>void main wrote:

Keith Thompson wrote:
void main <nos...@nospam. invalidwrites:

>>When porting a program to MS-Windows I got a redefinition error
on "frand" (already defined in stdlib.h).

>>Is it legal if I use "frand" in a source file if stlib.h is not
included there?

>Yes.

>There is no standard C function called "frand". *(There are
functions "rand" and "srand").

>If a compiler, invoked in conforming mode, complains about you
defining a function called "frand", that's a flaw in the compiler.
I suggest you submit a bug report.

>If you're invoking the compiler in non-conforming mode, then you
probably have no grounds for complaint, though you're free to
complain anyway.

Thanks but I need a really portable solution. I solved it like this

#define frand xyz
#include <stdlib.h>
#undef frand

Is that good practice?

No. *If the compiler writer has ignored the standard, you have no
idea why and what is affected. *A better temporary step is to
replace *your* use of frand by something else. *And you should make
loud and insistent bug reports to the compiler marketer and insist
the bug be fixed.

There is no frand() in any of the Microsoft standard headers. E.g.:
C:\Program Files (x86)\Microsoft Visual Studio 8\VC\include>c: \utils
\grep.exe frand *.h

C:\Program Files (x86)\Microsoft Visual Studio 8\VC\include>

The fact that his name is "void main" just might possibly be a clue
that this is a troll.

Regardless of whether he is a troll his post is, as far as I can tell,
quite genuine. The identifier 'frand' *is* defined by a compiler in
stdlib.h, even under switches for disallowing all language extensions
and supposedly conforming to ANSI C.

I will not name the compiler in question, since it may be obvious to
more than a few already.

[user923005]

On Jul 7, 6:06Â*pm, santosh <santosh....@gm ail.comwrote:

user923005 wrote:

On Jul 6, 6:54�pm, CBFalconer <cbfalco...@yah oo.comwrote:

void main wrote:
Keith Thompson wrote:
void main <nos...@nospam. invalidwrites:

>When porting a program to MS-Windows I got a redefinition error
on "frand" (already defined in stdlib.h).

>Is it legal if I use "frand" in a source file if stlib.h is not
included there?

Yes.

There is no standard C function called "frand". �(There are
functions "rand" and "srand").

If a compiler, invoked in conforming mode, complains about you
defining a function called "frand", that's a flaw in the compiler.
I suggest you submit a bug report.

If you're invoking the compiler in non-conforming mode, then you
probably have no grounds for complaint, though you're free to
complain anyway.

Thanks but I need a really portable solution. I solved it like this

#define frand xyz
#include <stdlib.h>
#undef frand

Is that good practice?

No. �If the compiler writer has ignored the standard, you haveno
idea why and what is affected. �A better temporary step is to
replace *your* use of frand by something else. �And you shouldmake
loud and insistent bug reports to the compiler marketer and insist
the bug be fixed.

There is no frand() in any of the Microsoft standard headers. Â*E.g..:
C:\Program Files (x86)\Microsoft Visual Studio 8\VC\include>c: \utils
\grep.exe frand *.h

C:\Program Files (x86)\Microsoft Visual Studio 8\VC\include>

The fact that his name is "void main" just might possibly be a clue
that this is a troll.

Regardless of whether he is a troll his post is, as far as I can tell,
quite genuine. The identifier 'frand' *is* defined by a compiler in
stdlib.h, even under switches for disallowing all language extensions
and supposedly conforming to ANSI C.

I will not name the compiler in question, since it may be obvious to
more than a few already.

You certainly got me curious:
None in dev-cpp:
c:\dannfast\Dev-Cpp\include>gre pcarl frand *.h

c:\dannfast\Dev-Cpp\include>

None in mingw:
c:\dcorbit64\mi ngw\include>gre pcarl frand *.h

c:\dcorbit64\mi ngw\include>

None in Borland:
c:\dannfast\Bor land\BCC55\Incl ude>grepcarl frand *.h
sqlfront.h ( 586): #define SQLCRSFRAND 10088
wininet.h ( 3128): IN BOOL fRandomRead,
wininet.h ( 3138): IN BOOL fRandomRead,

c:\dannfast\Bor land\BCC55\Incl ude>

None in Watcom:
c:\dannfast\e_d rive\watcom\h>g repcarl frand *.h

c:\dannfast\e_d rive\watcom\h>
c:\dannfast\e_d rive\watcom\qh> grepcarl frand *.h

c:\dannfast\e_d rive\watcom\qh>

None in Digital Mars:
c:\dannfast\e_d rive\dm\include >grepcarl frand *.h

c:\dannfast\e_d rive\dm\include >

None in uClibc
c:\dannfast\e_d rive\uClibc\inc lude>grepcarl frand *.h

c:\dannfast\e_d rive\uClibc\inc lude>

None in Bloodshed:
c:\dannfast\e_d rive\bloodshed\ include>grepcar l frand *.h

c:\dannfast\e_d rive\bloodshed\ include>

None in Visual C++ 6.0:
c:\dannfast\lan g\VC98\Include> grepcarl frand *.h
SQLFRONT.H ( 579): #define SQLCRSFRAND 10088
WININET.H ( 2696): IN BOOL fRandomRead,
WININET.H ( 2706): IN BOOL fRandomRead,

c:\dannfast\lan g\VC98\Include>

None in VC++ 98:
c:\dcorbit64\Pr ogram Files\Microsoft Visual Studio
\VC98\Include>g repcarl frand *.h
SQLFRONT.H ( 579): #define SQLCRSFRAND 10088
WININET.H ( 2696): IN BOOL fRandomRead,
WININET.H ( 2706): IN BOOL fRandomRead,

c:\dcorbit64\Pr ogram Files\Microsoft Visual Studio\VC98\Inc lude>

None in Visual Studio.Net:
c:\dannfast\Pro gram Files\Microsoft Visual Studio .NET
\Vc7\include>gr epcarl frand *.h

c:\dannfast\Pro gram Files\Microsoft Visual Studio .NET\Vc7\includ e>

None in Visual Studio.Net 2003:
c:\dannfast\Pro gram Files\Microsoft Visual Studio .NET
2003\Vc7\includ e>grepcarl frand *.h

c:\dannfast\Pro gram Files\Microsoft Visual Studio .NET
2003\Vc7\includ e>

None in VC++ 8:
c:\dannfast\Pro gram Files\Microsoft Visual Studio 8\VC
\include>grepca rl frand *.h

c:\dannfast\Pro gram Files\Microsoft Visual Studio 8\VC\include>

None in VC++ 9:
c:\Program Files (x86)\Microsoft Visual Studio 9.0\VC\include> grepcarl
frand *.h

c:\Program Files (x86)\Microsoft Visual Studio 9.0\VC\include>

None in Clib:
c:\dannfast\e_d rive\clib\compi ler>grepcarl frand *.h

c:\dannfast\e_d rive\clib\compi ler>

None in SAS/C:
c:\dannfast\Pro gram Files\SAS Institute\SASC7 01\include>grep carl frand
*.h

c:\dannfast\Pro gram Files\SAS Institute\SASC7 01\include>

None in Cint:
c:\dannfast\e_d rive\root\cint\ include>grepcar l frand *.h

c:\dannfast\e_d rive\root\cint\ include>

None in Tendra:
c:\dannfast\e_d rive\tendra-20041231\src\li b\apis\ansi>gre pcarl frand
*.h

c:\dannfast\e_d rive\tendra-20041231\src\li b\apis\ansi>

Looks like LCC:
c:\dcorbit64\lc c\include>grepc arl frand *.h
stdlib.h ( 77): double frand(void);
wininet.h ( 1780): BOOL fRandomRead,
wininet.h ( 1787): BOOL fRandomRead,
xlcall.h ( 173): #define xlfRand 63

Suggestion to Jacob:
#ifndef __ANSIC__ONLY__
double frand(void);
#endif

[void main]

user923005 wrote:

On Jul 7, 6:06*pm, santosh <santosh....@gm ail.comwrote:

>user923005 wrote:

On Jul 6, 6:54?pm, CBFalconer <cbfalco...@yah oo.comwrote:
void main wrote:
Keith Thompson wrote:
void main <nos...@nospam. invalidwrites:

>>When porting a program to MS-Windows I got a redefinition error
on "frand" (already defined in stdlib.h).

>>Is it legal if I use "frand" in a source file if stlib.h is not
included there?

>Yes.

>There is no standard C function called "frand". ?(There are
functions "rand" and "srand").

>If a compiler, invoked in conforming mode, complains about you
defining a function called "frand", that's a flaw in the compiler.
I suggest you submit a bug report.

>If you're invoking the compiler in non-conforming mode, then you
probably have no grounds for complaint, though you're free to
complain anyway.

Thanks but I need a really portable solution. I solved it like this

#define frand xyz
#include <stdlib.h>
#undef frand

Is that good practice?

>No. ?If the compiler writer has ignored the standard, you have no
idea why and what is affected. ?A better temporary step is to
replace *your* use of frand by something else. ?And you should make
loud and insistent bug reports to the compiler marketer and insist
the bug be fixed.

There is no frand() in any of the Microsoft standard headers. *E.g.:
C:\Program Files (x86)\Microsoft Visual Studio 8\VC\include>c: \utils
\grep.exe frand *.h

C:\Program Files (x86)\Microsoft Visual Studio 8\VC\include>

The fact that his name is "void main" just might possibly be a clue
that this is a troll.

Regardless of whether he is a troll his post is, as far as I can tell,
quite genuine. The identifier 'frand' *is* defined by a compiler in
stdlib.h, even under switches for disallowing all language extensions
and supposedly conforming to ANSI C.

I will not name the compiler in question, since it may be obvious to
more than a few already.

[...]

Suggestion to Jacob:
#ifndef __ANSIC__ONLY__
double frand(void);
#endif

(my name isn't Jacob, but) I assume this should go into the compiler's
stdlib.h? Is it really a good idea if I change compiler internal files?

[Barry Schwarz]

On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 23:49:20 +0200 (CEST), void main
<no****@nospam. invalidwrote:

>user923005 wrote:

snip

>Suggestion to Jacob:
#ifndef __ANSIC__ONLY__
double frand(void);
#endif

(my name isn't Jacob, but) I assume this should go into the compiler's
stdlib.h? Is it really a good idea if I change compiler internal files?

Somewhere between terrible and catastrophic!

As a general rule, you should only change a product's files where the
implementation/installation instructions specify. If you make the
suggested change in stdlib.h and you later get an update, your change
will be lost and you will be confused why unchanged programs that used
to compile no longer do.
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