Orcas Beta 2 Released (a few days ago)

[Jon Skeet [C# MVP]]

Just in case anyone else hadn't noticed (like me!), Visual Studio 2008
(Orcas) Beta 2 has shipped. The best starting point is probably Scott
Guthrie's blog (which contains download links etc):

http://weblogs.asp.net/scottgu/archi...-released.aspx

Jon

[Mark Rae [MVP]]

"Jon Skeet [C# MVP]" <sk***@pobox.comwrote in message
news:11**********************@q75g2000hsh.googlegr oups.com...

Just in case anyone else hadn't noticed (like me!), Visual Studio 2008
(Orcas) Beta 2 has shipped. The best starting point is probably Scott
Guthrie's blog (which contains download links etc):

Superb - thanks!

Slightly surprised at the lack of notification...
--
Mark Rae
ASP.NET MVP
http://www.markrae.net

[Gustaf]

Jon Skeet [C# MVP] wrote:

Just in case anyone else hadn't noticed (like me!), Visual Studio 2008
(Orcas) Beta 2 has shipped. The best starting point is probably Scott
Guthrie's blog (which contains download links etc):

I'd like to try it out, but I can't risk messing up my development computer. Does anyone have experience of running the beta side-by-side with VS 2005? Any gotchas there?

Gustaf

[Gustaf]

I wrote:

I'd like to try it out, but I can't risk messing up my development
computer. Does anyone have experience of running the beta side-by-side
with VS 2005? Any gotchas there?

I had better read the article first. In the comments, Scott says "Yep - this is perfectly supported. Make sure to run the batch file I listed in my installation notes above to avoid an ASP.NET AJAX side-by-side conflict."

Gustaf

[Kevin Spencer]

From my experience with an earlier release, uninstalling Orcas will break
the Cassini web server, unless they fixed that issue in the new beta. The
problem here is that the original is overwritten, and even a reinstall of
VS.Net 2005 will not replace it. I ended up having to download the Cassini 2
code and rebuild it to use the same command-line parameters. So, you might
want to back up the WebDev.WebServer.exe file before installing Orcas.

--
HTH,

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP

Printing Components, Email Components,
FTP Client Classes, Enhanced Data Controls, much more.
DSI PrintManager, Miradyne Component Libraries:
http://www.miradyne.net

"Gustaf" <gu*****@algonet.sewrote in message
news:OE**************@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

Jon Skeet [C# MVP] wrote:

>Just in case anyone else hadn't noticed (like me!), Visual Studio 2008
(Orcas) Beta 2 has shipped. The best starting point is probably Scott
Guthrie's blog (which contains download links etc):

I'd like to try it out, but I can't risk messing up my development
computer. Does anyone have experience of running the beta side-by-side
with VS 2005? Any gotchas there?

Gustaf

[Marc Gravell]

I'd like to try it out, but I can't risk messing up my development computer.

There are also some VPC images available for download. I'll probably
risk it on my laptop, but keep my desktop clean for now ;-p

Marc

[Mark Rae [MVP]]

"Marc Gravell" <ma**********@gmail.comwrote in message
news:11*********************@57g2000hsv.googlegrou ps.com...

There are also some VPC images available for download.

That's definitely what I'll be using...
--
Mark Rae
ASP.NET MVP
http://www.markrae.net

[PvdG42]

"Jon Skeet [C# MVP]" <sk***@pobox.comwrote in message
news:11**********************@q75g2000hsh.googlegr oups.com...

Just in case anyone else hadn't noticed (like me!), Visual Studio 2008
(Orcas) Beta 2 has shipped. The best starting point is probably Scott
Guthrie's blog (which contains download links etc):

http://weblogs.asp.net/scottgu/archi...-released.aspx

Jon

Cool! Thanks, Jon. I hadn't heard a thing.

[Cowboy \(Gregory A. Beamer\)]

Great reason to use VPC or VMWare. :-)

--
Gregory A. Beamer
MVP; MCP: +I, SE, SD, DBA
http://gregorybeamer.spaces.live.com
Co-author: Microsoft Expression Web Bible (upcoming)

************************************************
Think outside the box!
************************************************
"Kevin Spencer" <un**********@nothinks.comwrote in message
news:eL**************@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

From my experience with an earlier release, uninstalling Orcas will break
the Cassini web server, unless they fixed that issue in the new beta. The
problem here is that the original is overwritten, and even a reinstall of
VS.Net 2005 will not replace it. I ended up having to download the Cassini
2 code and rebuild it to use the same command-line parameters. So, you
might want to back up the WebDev.WebServer.exe file before installing
Orcas.

--
HTH,

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP

Printing Components, Email Components,
FTP Client Classes, Enhanced Data Controls, much more.
DSI PrintManager, Miradyne Component Libraries:
http://www.miradyne.net

"Gustaf" <gu*****@algonet.sewrote in message
news:OE**************@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...

>Jon Skeet [C# MVP] wrote:

>>Just in case anyone else hadn't noticed (like me!), Visual Studio 2008
(Orcas) Beta 2 has shipped. The best starting point is probably Scott
Guthrie's blog (which contains download links etc):

I'd like to try it out, but I can't risk messing up my development
computer. Does anyone have experience of running the beta side-by-side
with VS 2005? Any gotchas there?

Gustaf

[Cowboy \(Gregory A. Beamer\)]

I will likely use VMWare and set up my own images. With VMWare, I can take
advantage of two procs instead of just one. It runs a bit better this way.
This is esp. true if you are using the TFS install.

--
Gregory A. Beamer
MVP; MCP: +I, SE, SD, DBA
http://gregorybeamer.spaces.live.com
Co-author: Microsoft Expression Web Bible (upcoming)

************************************************
Think outside the box!
************************************************
"Mark Rae [MVP]" <ma**@markNOSPAMrae.netwrote in message
news:O1**************@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...

"Marc Gravell" <ma**********@gmail.comwrote in message
news:11*********************@57g2000hsv.googlegrou ps.com...

>There are also some VPC images available for download.

That's definitely what I'll be using...
--
Mark Rae
ASP.NET MVP
http://www.markrae.net

[Mark Rae [MVP]]

"Cowboy (Gregory A. Beamer)" <No************@comcast.netNoSpamMwrote in
message news:ei**************@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

>I will likely use VMWare and set up my own images. With VMWare, I can take
advantage of two procs instead of just one. It runs a bit better this way.
This is esp. true if you are using the TFS install.

That's a very good point - hadn't thought of that...
--
Mark Rae
ASP.NET MVP
http://www.markrae.net

[Morten Wennevik [C# MVP]]

On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 13:09:54 +0200, Gustaf <gu*****@algonet.sewrote:

Jon Skeet [C# MVP] wrote:

>Just in case anyone else hadn't noticed (like me!), Visual Studio 2008
(Orcas) Beta 2 has shipped. The best starting point is probably Scott
Guthrie's blog (which contains download links etc):

I'd like to try it out, but I can't risk messing up my development computer. Does anyone have experience of running the beta side-by-side with VS 2005? Any gotchas there?

Gustaf

I've run vs2003, vs2005 and Orcas side by side on my desktop since beta1 and had absolutely no problems running them together. I can't claim to have been through all the scenarious though, and I have yet to see what happens when I uninstall. According to the installation readme for Orcas beta1, there is a list with quite a few items that apparantly will stop working after uninstalling Orcas beta1, and they seem to indicate a repair of VS2005, and possible repair/reinstallation of one or more versions of .Net will be necessary.

Nothing that worries me though, since I can live with a complete reinstallation of this PC, but I would definitely read the readme of Beta2 before installling it on any critical system (when it completes its 3.2 Gb download in about six hours :( )

--
Happy coding!
Morten Wennevik [C# MVP]

[Mark Rae [MVP]]

"Morten Wennevik [C# MVP]" <Mo************@hotmail.comwrote in message
news:op.tv4nhtjedj93y5@stone...

but I would definitely read the readme of Beta2 before installling it on
any critical system

Surely no-one would install beta software on any critical system...
--
Mark Rae
ASP.NET MVP
http://www.markrae.net

[Morten Wennevik [C# MVP]]

On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 16:37:08 +0200, Mark Rae [MVP] <ma**@markNOSPAMrae.netwrote:

"Morten Wennevik [C# MVP]" <Mo************@hotmail.comwrote in message
news:op.tv4nhtjedj93y5@stone...

>but I would definitely read the readme of Beta2 before installling it on
any critical system

Surely no-one would install beta software on any critical system...

Actually no, you can sometimes get support for Beta2 software used in a production environment. I forgot what the program was called, but I know Sharepoint 2007 Beta2 ran in production with full support. You do need a special program to get the support though.

--
Happy coding!
Morten Wennevik [C# MVP]

[Mark Rae [MVP]]

"Morten Wennevik [C# MVP]" <Mo************@hotmail.comwrote in message
news:op.tv4oj0fhdj93y5@stone...

You do need a special program to get the support though.

I think this is a little different, though, as (AFAIK) it isn't scheduled
for release until late February 208...
--
Mark Rae
ASP.NET MVP
http://www.markrae.net

[Mark Rae [MVP]]

"Morten Wennevik [C# MVP]" <Mo************@hotmail.comwrote in message
news:op.tv4oj0fhdj93y5@stone...

Or even Feb 2008...
--
Mark Rae
ASP.NET MVP
http://www.markrae.net

[Jon Skeet [C# MVP]]

On Jul 27, 4:01 pm, "Mark Rae [MVP]" <[e-mail]:

Or even Feb 2008...

I believe that Feb 2008 is the *launch* - but the release is still
hopefully late 2007. My guess is early December, but that *is* only a
guess.

From
http://blogs.msdn.com/somasegar/arch...uary-27th.aspx
<quote>
While we will be launching our products together in February, we are
still aiming to release Visual Studio 2008 and .NET FX 3.5 by the end
of this year based on your feedback so far.
</quote>

Personally I'm going to backup my (home) laptop and just go for it.
It'll be a lot simpler to test out than using a VM.

Jon

[Mark Rae [MVP]]

"Jon Skeet [C# MVP]" <sk***@pobox.comwrote in message
news:11**********************@57g2000hsv.googlegro ups.com...

Personally I'm going to backup my (home) laptop and just go for it.
It'll be a lot simpler to test out than using a VM.

I'm going to have a go with 64-bit Vista Business on VMWare Workstation 6...
--
Mark Rae
ASP.NET MVP
http://www.markrae.net

[Bob Johnson]

Re: .NET FX 3.5

Is this considered a "major upgrade" to the framework, itself, or is it
mostly marketing terminology for major add-ons, as in .NET 3.0?

Thanks.

-"Bob"

"Jon Skeet [C# MVP]" <sk***@pobox.comwrote in message
news:11**********************@57g2000hsv.googlegro ups.com...

On Jul 27, 4:01 pm, "Mark Rae [MVP]" <[e-mail]:

>Or even Feb 2008...

I believe that Feb 2008 is the *launch* - but the release is still
hopefully late 2007. My guess is early December, but that *is* only a
guess.

From
http://blogs.msdn.com/somasegar/arch...uary-27th.aspx
<quote>
While we will be launching our products together in February, we are
still aiming to release Visual Studio 2008 and .NET FX 3.5 by the end
of this year based on your feedback so far.
</quote>

Personally I'm going to backup my (home) laptop and just go for it.
It'll be a lot simpler to test out than using a VM.

Jon

[Morten Wennevik [C# MVP]]

On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 19:10:17 +0200, Bob Johnson <[e-mail]:

Re: .NET FX 3.5

Is this considered a "major upgrade" to the framework, itself, or is it
mostly marketing terminology for major add-ons, as in .NET 3.0?

Thanks.

-"Bob"

..Net 3.5 is the next version of .Net (the previous was 2.0)

--
Happy coding!
Morten Wennevik [C# MVP]

[Jon Skeet [C# MVP]]

Bob Johnson <[e-mail]:

Re: .NET FX 3.5

Is this considered a "major upgrade" to the framework, itself, or is it
mostly marketing terminology for major add-ons, as in .NET 3.0?

I'm not sure I see your point. There are no significant CLR changes, if
that's what you mean - but it contains LINQ, ADO.NET 3.0 (etc), and
some improvements to the core functionality like dates and times.

Most importantly IMO it contains the appropriate types to support all
of the C# 3 features. (You can use some of them on earlier versions,
but extension methods for example require the ExtensionAttribute of
System.Core.)

--
Jon Skeet - <sk***@pobox.com>
http://www.pobox.com/~skeet Blog: http://www.msmvps.com/jon.skeet
If replying to the group, please do not mail me too

[Bob Johnson]

RE:
<< I'm not sure I see your point.>>

Ahhh, but it's not MY point:

http://forums.microsoft.com/MSDN/Sho...06303&SiteID=1
"Basically .net framework 3.0 = .net framework 2.0 + (wcf + wpf + wf + wcs)
= .net framework 2.0 + winfx"

http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/winfx/Aa663314.aspx
"The .NET Framework 3.0 is an additive release to the .NET Framework 2.0"

http://blogs.msdn.com/brada/archive/...10/625717.aspx
"the name change from WinFX to .NET Framework 3.0!"
and
"While this would avoid the ".NET Framework 3.0 includes .NET Framework 2.0"
issue ..."
and
"To be explicit, if the .NET Framework 2.0 is already on the box then the
install of 3.0 only lays down the new assemblies..."
and
"While we are doing amazing innovations at the CLR level, they are going to
take a bit longer to bake and I don't want to freeze our top level version
number during that time"...
this in response to the idea that 3.0 should have been versioned as 2.X
rather than 3.0.
Re:
<< There are no significant CLR changes, if that's what you mean >>
In retrospect, that's what I was thinking (CLR). I'll be a bit more precise
next time, as "the framework, itself" is actually quite vague. Thanks for
pointing that out.

-Bob"


"Jon Skeet [C# MVP]" <sk***@pobox.comwrote in message
news:MP*********************@msnews.microsoft.com. ..

Bob Johnson <[e-mail]:

>Re: .NET FX 3.5

Is this considered a "major upgrade" to the framework, itself, or is it
mostly marketing terminology for major add-ons, as in .NET 3.0?

I'm not sure I see your point. There are no significant CLR changes, if
that's what you mean - but it contains LINQ, ADO.NET 3.0 (etc), and
some improvements to the core functionality like dates and times.

Most importantly IMO it contains the appropriate types to support all
of the C# 3 features. (You can use some of them on earlier versions,
but extension methods for example require the ExtensionAttribute of
System.Core.)

--
Jon Skeet - <sk***@pobox.com>
http://www.pobox.com/~skeet Blog: http://www.msmvps.com/jon.skeet
If replying to the group, please do not mail me too

[Frans Bouma [C# MVP]]

Mark Rae [MVP] wrote:

"Jon Skeet [C# MVP]" <sk***@pobox.comwrote in message
news:11**********************@q75g2000hsh.googlegr oups.com...

Just in case anyone else hadn't noticed (like me!), Visual Studio
2008 (Orcas) Beta 2 has shipped. The best starting point is
probably Scott Guthrie's blog (which contains download links etc):

Superb - thanks!

Slightly surprised at the lack of notification...

Lack of notification? :) It looked like everyone with a blog (except
me ;)) blogged about the release.

FB
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lead developer of LLBLGen Pro, the productive O/R mapper for .NET
LLBLGen Pro website: http://www.llblgen.com
My .NET blog: http://weblogs.asp.net/fbouma
Microsoft MVP (C#)
------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Mark Rae [MVP]]

"Frans Bouma [C# MVP]" <pe******************@xs4all.nlwrote in message
news:xn***************@news.microsoft.com...

>"Jon Skeet [C# MVP]" <sk***@pobox.comwrote in message
news:11**********************@q75g2000hsh.googleg roups.com...

Just in case anyone else hadn't noticed (like me!), Visual Studio
2008 (Orcas) Beta 2 has shipped. The best starting point is
probably Scott Guthrie's blog (which contains download links etc):

Superb - thanks!

Slightly surprised at the lack of notification...

Lack of notification? :) It looked like everyone with a blog (except
me ;)) blogged about the release.

Guess Jon and I missed it... :-)
--
Mark Rae
ASP.NET MVP
http://www.markrae.net

[Will]

On Jul 27, 3:23 pm, "PvdG42" <[e-mail]:

"Jon Skeet [C# MVP]" <[e-mail] in messagenews:11**********************@q75g2000hsh.g ooglegroups.com...

Just in case anyone else hadn't noticed (like me!), Visual Studio 2008
(Orcas) Beta 2 has shipped. The best starting point is probably Scott
Guthrie's blog (which contains download links etc):

http://weblogs.asp.net/scottgu/archi...08-and-net-3-5...

Jon

Cool! Thanks, Jon. I hadn't heard a thing.

There is a write up on the new language shortcuts at
http://www.ftponline.com/vsm/2007_07...olumns/csharp/

[=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?=]

Gustaf wrote:

Jon Skeet [C# MVP] wrote:

>Just in case anyone else hadn't noticed (like me!), Visual Studio 2008
(Orcas) Beta 2 has shipped. The best starting point is probably Scott
Guthrie's blog (which contains download links etc):

I'd like to try it out, but I can't risk messing up my development
computer. Does anyone have experience of running the beta side-by-side
with VS 2005? Any gotchas there?

Go for the VPC version.

It gives a nice isolation between serious work and experimenting.

Arne

[Mark Rae [MVP]]

"Arne Vajhøj" <ar**@vajhoej.dkwrote in message
news:46***********************@news.sunsite.dk...

>I'd like to try it out, but I can't risk messing up my development
computer. Does anyone have experience of running the beta side-by-side
with VS 2005? Any gotchas there?

Go for the VPC version.

It gives a nice isolation between serious work and experimenting.

Yes, definitely. I'm running it on 64-bit Vista Business through VMWare
Workstation 6, but the principle is the same - mess up, and the worst case
scenario is nothing more than a rebuild of the virtual machine; the host
machine is unaffected...
--
Mark Rae
ASP.NET MVP
http://www.markrae.net

[Jon Skeet [C# MVP]]

Arne Vajhøj <ar**@vajhoej.dkwrote:

I'd like to try it out, but I can't risk messing up my development
computer. Does anyone have experience of running the beta side-by-side
with VS 2005? Any gotchas there?

Go for the VPC version.

It gives a nice isolation between serious work and experimenting.

True, but at a vast difference in performance - at least on my laptop.

Yes, I *may* need to rebuild my laptop if things go badly wrong - but
I'm actually reasonably confident in this build, and rebuilding my
laptop wouldn't be the worst thing in the world anyway. I suspect that
in the course of the next 4 months I'm going to save more than the time
involved in rebuilding my laptop just in the difference in performance
due to not running on a VPC. It's also significantly more convenient,
too.

Of course, if you've got monster machines or hardware-supported
virtualisation, that's a different matter - but 2008 beta 1 was really
chugging on VPC 2007. (It was slightly better on VMWare, but still not
"native" speed - and VMWare has other downsides.)

It's horses for courses, clearly...

--
Jon Skeet - <sk***@pobox.com>
http://www.pobox.com/~skeet Blog: http://www.msmvps.com/jon.skeet
If replying to the group, please do not mail me too

[Marc Gravell]

Just a warning to all... installing 3.5 appears to have the capacity
to play merry hell with any existing 3.0 projects... I can't change
the target framework to 3.0 as it can't find WinFX any more etc... and
all the dlls deleted from "reference assemblies"...

It might be a simple fix, but I haven't found it yet ;-p

I suspect it fried itself...

Marc

[Jon Skeet [C# MVP]]

Marc Gravell <ma**********@gmail.comwrote:

Just a warning to all... installing 3.5 appears to have the capacity
to play merry hell with any existing 3.0 projects... I can't change
the target framework to 3.0 as it can't find WinFX any more etc... and
all the dlls deleted from "reference assemblies"...

It might be a simple fix, but I haven't found it yet ;-p

I suspect it fried itself...

Ouch. What operating system are you on? It doesn't seem to have that
problem on my Vista installation.

--
Jon Skeet - <sk***@pobox.com>
http://www.pobox.com/~skeet Blog: http://www.msmvps.com/jon.skeet
If replying to the group, please do not mail me too

[Marc Gravell]

XP-pro on the box in question. I have no idea if this is supported or
not, but heck: the installer had it's chance to whinge if it didn't
like it.

I have posted full error message at connect:
https://connect.microsoft.com/Visual...dbackID=289965

Marc

[Mark Rae [MVP]]

"Jon Skeet [C# MVP]" <sk***@pobox.comwrote in message
news:MP*********************@msnews.microsoft.com. ..

Ouch. What operating system are you on? It doesn't seem to have that
problem on my Vista installation.

Mine neither...
--
Mark Rae
ASP.NET MVP
http://www.markrae.net

[Smithers]

<<It doesn't seem to have that problem on my Vista installation.>>

No problems here either -- been using 2008 Beta 2 for a week now.

[Marc Gravell]

Jon SkeetIt doesn't seem to have that problem on my Vista
installation.
Mark RaeMine neither...
SmithersNo problems here either -- been using 2008 Beta 2 for a week
now.

Yes - I guessed it wasn't a common case, which is why I deliberately
phrased it "appears to have the capacity", rather than as an absolute.
But I can say for sure that it has made a /complete/ mess of at least
one install, so just to tread a little carefully...

I do genuinely hope that it is an isolated (or edge) case.
Marc

[Jon Skeet [C# MVP]]

On Aug 1, 9:06 am, Marc Gravell <[e-mail]:

Yes - I guessed it wasn't a common case, which is why I deliberately
phrased it "appears to have the capacity", rather than as an absolute.
But I can say for sure that it has made a /complete/ mess of at least
one install, so just to tread a little carefully...

Oh absolutely. I wasn't trying to imply that I doubted your system's
hosed-ness.

I do genuinely hope that it is an isolated (or edge) case.

In some ways I hope that it's *not* an edge case - I'd rather the beta
2 (which is likely to be installed on VPCs for the most part) had a
common but serious problem which is easy enough to diagnose and fix
(due to being common) than that it only existed as an edge case which
made it through to release and still hurt people then.

Jon

[Marc Gravell]

I'd rather the beta 2 (which is likely to be installed on

VPCs for the most part) had a common but serious problem
which is easy enough to diagnose and fix...

I agree, which is actually exactly why I decided to throw caution to
the wind and install on a typical, brown-field, seen some usage
desktop, so that any teething issues might be obvious. Well, it
fried ;-p Not a huge problem to reinstall from scratch (probably
overdue anyway), and I can always try uninstalling / reinstalling
VS2005, WinFX and VS2008 first...
But connect just closed it as not reproducible, so I doubt anyone will
benefit from my pain...

Marc