beta2 XHTML compliance? is this necessary. OR STUPID...read UP MICROSOFT

[rhat]

I heard that beta 2 now makes ASP.NET xhtml compliant.

Can anyone shed some light on what this will change and it will break stuff
as converting HTML to XHTML pages DO break things. see,
http://www.alistapart.com/articles/betterliving/

I read on
http://msdn.microsoft.com/netframewo...etfxcompat.asp

It said they changed stuff like this

" Standards Compliance: The HTML rendering in ASP.NET was updated to be
XHTML 1.0 Transitional, which is standards compliant "

which is again another STUPID standard compliance mindnumb robot type of
thinking. Standard compliance is and will NEVER be important as getting it
to work on multiple browsers, period. What good is standards if the app
doesn't even work? How about a new standard? It's called getting it to work
instead of listening to some stupid committee who sits around all day in
conference talking to each other but know nothing of the real world in
getting things to actually work.

[Teemu Keiski]

Hello,

If I recall correctly this has been one of the most requested features to
ASP.NET 2.0. Standards are also the way to get it work with all browsers as
the majority browsers all somewhat support XHTML, and of course more and
more browsers will do that when there begins to be the demand for it. Major
web technique is quite close being a reason for that alone.

On the other hand, rendering in ASP.NET 2.0 is also pretty well configurable
so I suppose you can get it to work with almost any browser you like. Do you
have some specific scenario that fails with ASP.NET 2.0 for a reason or
another? Maybe we can help?

--
Teemu Keiski
ASP.NET MVP, AspInsider
Finland, EU

[Brian Henry]

how about you stop complaining and accept standards and change... Thousands
of people asked for it and MS gave it to them... you should be happy that MS
is creating something standard complient. You still have the option to use
HTML standard if you want to by changing the rendering doc type... no one is
forceing you to use XHTML 1.0

"rhat" <no***@hotmail. com> wrote in message
news:%2******** ********@TK2MSF TNGP10.phx.gbl. ..

I heard that beta 2 now makes ASP.NET xhtml compliant.

Can anyone shed some light on what this will change and it will break
stuff
as converting HTML to XHTML pages DO break things. see,
http://www.alistapart.com/articles/betterliving/

I read on
http://msdn.microsoft.com/netframewo...etfxcompat.asp

It said they changed stuff like this

" Standards Compliance: The HTML rendering in ASP.NET was updated to be
XHTML 1.0 Transitional, which is standards compliant "

which is again another STUPID standard compliance mindnumb robot type of
thinking. Standard compliance is and will NEVER be important as getting
it
to work on multiple browsers, period. What good is standards if the app
doesn't even work? How about a new standard? It's called getting it to
work
instead of listening to some stupid committee who sits around all day in
conference talking to each other but know nothing of the real world in
getting things to actually work.

[rhat]

This beta 2 white paper says they are going to XHTML as a default, I think

These so-called people, have the ACTUALLY TESTED there apps to see if they
DON'T break as opposed to "Let's be standards compliant just for the sake of
standards compliant".

That's the type of nim rod robot thinking of some intellectual who's out of
touch of reality.

The reality is #1 let's make sure it works across all browsers as opposed to
let's make be standard's compliant just to satisfy some committee and say so
we slap a sticker that means nothing if it ACTUALLY doesn't work and breaks
an app on this browser.

Before you open your mouth and for Microsoft bunch of robots out there,
LET"S ACTUALLY TEST before jumpt to XHTML....MOST OF YOU so-called standard
advocates DO NOT even HAVE a WEB APP to begin with...so be quiet if you
don't something in production.
"Brian Henry" <no****@newsgro ups.com> wrote in message
news:eL******** ******@TK2MSFTN GP15.phx.gbl...

how about you stop complaining and accept standards and change... Thousands of people asked for it and MS gave it to them... you should be happy that MS is creating something standard complient. You still have the option to use
HTML standard if you want to by changing the rendering doc type... no one is forceing you to use XHTML 1.0

"rhat" <no***@hotmail. com> wrote in message
news:%2******** ********@TK2MSF TNGP10.phx.gbl. ..

I heard that beta 2 now makes ASP.NET xhtml compliant.

Can anyone shed some light on what this will change and it will break
stuff
as converting HTML to XHTML pages DO break things. see,
http://www.alistapart.com/articles/betterliving/

I read on
http://msdn.microsoft.com/netframewo...etfxcompat.asp
It said they changed stuff like this

" Standards Compliance: The HTML rendering in ASP.NET was updated to be
XHTML 1.0 Transitional, which is standards compliant "

which is again another STUPID standard compliance mindnumb robot type of
thinking. Standard compliance is and will NEVER be important as getting
it
to work on multiple browsers, period. What good is standards if the app
doesn't even work? How about a new standard? It's called getting it to
work
instead of listening to some stupid committee who sits around all day in
conference talking to each other but know nothing of the real world in
getting things to actually work.

[rhat]

Requested by WHO? And for WHAT REASON?

Just SO these people can add it to their resume saying, "SEE, I can do
XHTML" but in reality this XHTML cause these web pages not to display
properly across these browsers

The fact that your reply says that it will BREAK some browsers means that
beta 2.0 DOES NOT PLAY WELL WITH OTHERS and is going against what MR. BILL
said he would do.

See the difference between, "PLAYING WELL WITH OTHERS" and just being
"standards complaint" just for the sake of "being standards complaint"

The first means, "MAKING IT HAPPEN" in the REAL WORLD
The second means, "HOPING it WILL HAPPEN" in the real world as we already
know many browsers DO NOT AGREE ON STANDARDS.
"Teemu Keiski" <jo****@aspalli ance.com> wrote in message
news:u9******** ******@TK2MSFTN GP09.phx.gbl...

Hello,

If I recall correctly this has been one of the most requested features to
ASP.NET 2.0. Standards are also the way to get it work with all browsers as the majority browsers all somewhat support XHTML, and of course more and
more browsers will do that when there begins to be the demand for it. Major web technique is quite close being a reason for that alone.

On the other hand, rendering in ASP.NET 2.0 is also pretty well configurable so I suppose you can get it to work with almost any browser you like. Do you have some specific scenario that fails with ASP.NET 2.0 for a reason or
another? Maybe we can help?

--
Teemu Keiski
ASP.NET MVP, AspInsider
Finland, EU

[gerry]

lol - get a life

what xhtml doesnt work in which browsers ?
most if not all current browser versions have far more reliable and
consistant support for xhtml than html !
the exception being MSIE which is so far behind the curve as to be
considered archaic.
if you don't want to use xhtml just use the proper dtd and keep using html
the same as ever.

btw - can you post the url to your killer web app ?

"rhat" <no***@hotmail. com> wrote in message
news:%2******** ********@TK2MSF TNGP14.phx.gbl. ..

This beta 2 white paper says they are going to XHTML as a default, I think

These so-called people, have the ACTUALLY TESTED there apps to see if they
DON'T break as opposed to "Let's be standards compliant just for the sake of standards compliant".

That's the type of nim rod robot thinking of some intellectual who's out of touch of reality.

The reality is #1 let's make sure it works across all browsers as opposed to let's make be standard's compliant just to satisfy some committee and say so we slap a sticker that means nothing if it ACTUALLY doesn't work and breaks an app on this browser.

Before you open your mouth and for Microsoft bunch of robots out there,
LET"S ACTUALLY TEST before jumpt to XHTML....MOST OF YOU so-called standard advocates DO NOT even HAVE a WEB APP to begin with...so be quiet if you
don't something in production.
"Brian Henry" <no****@newsgro ups.com> wrote in message
news:eL******** ******@TK2MSFTN GP15.phx.gbl...

how about you stop complaining and accept standards and change... Thousands

of people asked for it and MS gave it to them... you should be happy that MS

is creating something standard complient. You still have the option to use HTML standard if you want to by changing the rendering doc type... no

one is

forceing you to use XHTML 1.0

"rhat" <no***@hotmail. com> wrote in message
news:%2******** ********@TK2MSF TNGP10.phx.gbl. ..

I heard that beta 2 now makes ASP.NET xhtml compliant.

Can anyone shed some light on what this will change and it will break
stuff
as converting HTML to XHTML pages DO break things. see,
http://www.alistapart.com/articles/betterliving/

I read on

http://msdn.microsoft.com/netframewo...etfxcompat.asp

It said they changed stuff like this

" Standards Compliance: The HTML rendering in ASP.NET was updated to be XHTML 1.0 Transitional, which is standards compliant "

which is again another STUPID standard compliance mindnumb robot type of thinking. Standard compliance is and will NEVER be important as getting it
to work on multiple browsers, period. What good is standards if the app doesn't even work? How about a new standard? It's called getting it to
work
instead of listening to some stupid committee who sits around all day in conference talking to each other but know nothing of the real world in
getting things to actually work.

[Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]]

"rhat" <no***@hotmail. com> schrieb:

Just SO these people can add it to their resume saying, "SEE, I can do
XHTML" but in reality this XHTML cause these web pages not to display
properly across these browsers

Much more than 90 percent of the Web users are using browsers which are more
or less standard-compliant. Thus I don't see any reason for supporting very
few exotic browsers which do not have a future.

--
M S Herfried K. Wagner
M V P <URL:http://dotnet.mvps.org/>
V B <URL:http://classicvb.org/petition/>

[Bruce Wood]

I second the motion: get a grip.

There are good reasons why XHTML was created in the first place, and
why the push is on to gain it wider acceptance. HTML is so loose that
it takes a massive browser program to deal gracefully with the myriad
possible inconsistencies and errors in HTML documents. Massive browser
programs don't sit well on many new devices that are trying to surf the
Web, like cell phones and handhelds. XHTML suits these devices far
better, because the browse can be much simpler and thus more compact.

There is a three-way dance between browser designers, people who build
the tools to build content / programs that provide content (that would
be Microsoft), and the standards bodies. Sometimes the browser builders
are leading the dance, introducing new features, etc. Sometimes the
content providers and tool builders (such as MS) are leading the dance.

It sounds to me as though your beef is not that the cart is before the
horse, but that you have to make any changes to your already-released
Web app in order to keep it universally compatible. So what if MS makes
XHTML the default, so long as they provide some way to fall back to the
old way for what become legacy apps because of changes like this one?

Your complaint is that the browser designers should be leading the
dance, not the toolsmiths, but then almost all browsers already support
XHTML, so arguably that's already happened and the browsers are in the
lead. So you designed your app to work in HTML instead of XHTML. What
is the rest of the world supposed to do? Freeze development and change
so that you don't have to change your app? It sounds to me as though
you're pissed off not so much at Microsoft but at the fact that things
are changing at all.

[John Timney \(ASP.NET MVP\)]

If you want to degrade asp2 to be non xhtml compliant, all it takes is an
ihttpfilter to degrade the tags you want in the applications you need
degrading - which is the easiest approach to make asp1.x xhtml compliant.

--
Regards

John Timney
ASP.NET MVP
Microsoft Regional Director

"rhat" <no***@hotmail. com> wrote in message
news:%2******** ********@TK2MSF TNGP10.phx.gbl. ..

I heard that beta 2 now makes ASP.NET xhtml compliant.

Can anyone shed some light on what this will change and it will break
stuff
as converting HTML to XHTML pages DO break things. see,
http://www.alistapart.com/articles/betterliving/

I read on
http://msdn.microsoft.com/netframewo...etfxcompat.asp

It said they changed stuff like this

" Standards Compliance: The HTML rendering in ASP.NET was updated to be
XHTML 1.0 Transitional, which is standards compliant "

which is again another STUPID standard compliance mindnumb robot type of
thinking. Standard compliance is and will NEVER be important as getting
it
to work on multiple browsers, period. What good is standards if the app
doesn't even work? How about a new standard? It's called getting it to
work
instead of listening to some stupid committee who sits around all day in
conference talking to each other but know nothing of the real world in
getting things to actually work.

[Joerg Jooss]

rhat wrote:

I heard that beta 2 now makes ASP.NET xhtml compliant.

Can anyone shed some light on what this will change and it will break
stuff as converting HTML to XHTML pages DO break things. see,
http://www.alistapart.com/articles/betterliving/

I read on
http://msdn.microsoft.com/netframewo...=/library/en-u
s/dnnetdep/html/netfxcompat.asp

It said they changed stuff like this

" Standards Compliance: The HTML rendering in ASP.NET was updated to
be XHTML 1.0 Transitional, which is standards compliant "

which is again another STUPID standard compliance mindnumb robot type
of thinking. Standard compliance is and will NEVER be important as
getting it to work on multiple browsers, period.

As a matter of fact, adhering to standards is the only way to achieve
cross browser compatibility (YMMV) -- or explain to me how using
non-standard features helps here.

It is also vital for adhering to accessibility requirements, which are
mandatory in countries like Germany if you want to develop web
applications for government organizations.

Cheers,
--
http://www.joergjooss.de
mailto:ne****** **@joergjooss.d e