Is "Whidbey" going to de-skill developers ?

[Fresh Air Rider]

Hi

I understand that ASP.net 2.0 (Whidbey) is going to reduce coding by
70%.

Surely this is going to de-skill or dumb down the developers task and
open up the task to less qualified and trained staff.

Tell me if I'm wrong.

[Andy]

hi,

i'm absolutely agree with you. that was just what i thought when i first try
the whidbey (beta).
with the advent of whidbey, an average or a newbie who just know to point
and click and do some page layout design and have some degree of database
design knowlegde could possibly create a working application easily.

i think that Microsoft should re-think to withdraw it's MCAD/MCSD
certification altogether, because these cert won't give you any good in the
industry anymore.
i think that the advent of whidbey, just nullify the importance of being a
certified developer. because...'all you have to do is just point and click'
:)
as of now, i'm preparing to take MCAD certification, which is based on .NET
1.1 and VS2003. because i think being a certified developer would give me a
better bargain in bidding for projects/jobs.
that may explain why i'm a little bit sounds cynical to whidbey.

regards,
"Fresh Air Rider" <Fr*************@Hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:55**************************@posting.google.c om...

Hi

I understand that ASP.net 2.0 (Whidbey) is going to reduce coding by
70%.

Surely this is going to de-skill or dumb down the developers task and
open up the task to less qualified and trained staff.

Tell me if I'm wrong.

[Joerg Jooss]

Fresh Air Rider wrote:

Hi

I understand that ASP.net 2.0 (Whidbey) is going to reduce coding by
70%.

Surely this is going to de-skill or dumb down the developers task and
open up the task to less qualified and trained staff.

Tell me if I'm wrong.

Maybe it just comes with enough Framework stuff that helps eliminate *tons*
of boilerplate code...

Cheers,

--
Joerg Jooss
www.joergjooss.de
ne**@joergjooss.de

[John Timney \(ASP.NET MVP\)]

It will enable quicker development, as out of the box controls for common
every day events will be available, thus reducing code you as a developer
has to write to make a list bind to data for example.

It takes away none of the skill in understanding the frameworks complex
series of classes and namespaces and their limitations, nor replaces the
need to understand things like the http protocol, how transactions work in a
multi tiered system or how bad page design can seriously degrade the best
system.

--
Regards

John Timney
ASP.NET MVP
Microsoft Regional Director

"Fresh Air Rider" <Fr*************@Hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:55**************************@posting.google.c om...

Hi

I understand that ASP.net 2.0 (Whidbey) is going to reduce coding by
70%.

Surely this is going to de-skill or dumb down the developers task and
open up the task to less qualified and trained staff.

Tell me if I'm wrong.

[WJ]

"Fresh Air Rider" <Fr*************@Hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:55**************************@posting.google.c om...

Hi

I understand that ASP.net 2.0 (Whidbey) is going to reduce coding by
70%.
No. There are always special requirements in your future projects that no
tool on this Earth (no matter how much code the tool can create for you) can
match but your skills!
Surely this is going to de-skill or dumb down the developers task and open
up the task to less qualified and trained staff.
So, You you think MS/VS.Net 2005 is a "super" tool ? I would not give MS
this credit !
Tell me if I'm wrong.

Yes. You are VERY WRONG !!! .. and a word of advice: You must "SHARPEN" your
skill everyday. Do not quit learning. And do not just do .Net only !
Especially never use that word "DIM" in your source code! As this will "dim"
your skills... and your livelihood altogether :)

Happy new Year.

John

[William F. Robertson, Jr.]

No, from what I have seen of 2.0:

2.0 is going to enable average and below average developers to generate
powerful apps with little time.
2.0 is going to enable above average and exceptional developers to write
even more powerful modules. The provider model ASP.NET is using will
practically enable my fish tank and a webcam to operate my security
validation and personalization.

It will just make the dividing lines between interface developers and
backend developers more of a line as both groups can perform their tasks
more efficiently.

IMHO,

bill

Whidge
"Fresh Air Rider" <Fr*************@Hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:55**************************@posting.google.c om...

Hi

I understand that ASP.net 2.0 (Whidbey) is going to reduce coding by
70%.

Surely this is going to de-skill or dumb down the developers task and
open up the task to less qualified and trained staff.

Tell me if I'm wrong.

[Kevin Spencer]

The .Net platform hasn't changed at all, really. What Microsoft has done is
to build new tools for productivity onto it. As with any other compiled
programming technology, you can work at whatever level you are comfortable
with. You can still build a complete ASP.Net app from the ground up, if you
wish. Design your own HttpHandlers, etc. But there are quite a few people
out there who are not acquainted very well with lower-level programming, and
higher-level tools have been added, based upon the perceived problems that
some developers have had with the technology.

In essence, they haven't "de-skilled" ASP.Net. They have added tools that
require less skill for less-skilled developers, and for the productivity of
experienced developers.

--
HTH,

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
..Net Developer
Neither a follower nor a lender be.

"William F. Robertson, Jr." <theman_at_fdrsucks.com> wrote in message
news:uT**************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...

No, from what I have seen of 2.0:

2.0 is going to enable average and below average developers to generate
powerful apps with little time.
2.0 is going to enable above average and exceptional developers to write
even more powerful modules. The provider model ASP.NET is using will
practically enable my fish tank and a webcam to operate my security
validation and personalization.

It will just make the dividing lines between interface developers and
backend developers more of a line as both groups can perform their tasks
more efficiently.

IMHO,

bill

Whidge
"Fresh Air Rider" <Fr*************@Hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:55**************************@posting.google.c om...

Hi

I understand that ASP.net 2.0 (Whidbey) is going to reduce coding by
70%.

Surely this is going to de-skill or dumb down the developers task and
open up the task to less qualified and trained staff.

Tell me if I'm wrong.

[Peter Blum]

I have been developing for over 20 years. Every single year, a new
technology comes out that makes programming look so much simpler that users
ask the same question you have asked.

Programming is all about encapsulating reusable ideas into "black boxes" and
distributing them. Object oriented programming with its emphasis on class
libraries really excels in doing this. But OOP and class libraries have been
the centerpiece of programming for around 10 years. Programmers haven't
suffered.

However...People are becoming programmers more quickly. This has the side
effect that most of them have so little aptitude for real coding that they
cannot build a program, only drag, drop and set properties. Unfortunately,
they get hired as real programmers.

The GOAL of developing a web site remains the same from the client's
perspective: give me the *functionality* I want (on time). The offer their
users benefits by their uniqueness. Its usually not about whether you can
write a login page. Its about the features site users find after they login.

Since HTML was designed to deliver visual data without any programming, it
emphasizes content which can be drawn up in MS Word (for example). ASP.NET
is an HTML generator that emphasizes dynamically defining a page through
programming. Yet, it's still trying to output content and HTML page
developers benefit by keeping these tools at their level. ASP.NET 2.0
addresses this.

HTML generation is a very lightweight area of programming. If you are a true
programmer, writing code to generate HTML is really not applying your
skills. You look for all-code oriented challenges like building custom
controls, business logic, etc on the web platform or seek out development of
Windows apps, drivers, reporting engines, etc in a very diverse world
available to your skill set.

--- Peter Blum
www.PeterBlum.com
Email: PL****@PeterBlum.com
Creator of "Professional Validation And More" at
http://www.peterblum.com/vam/home.aspx

"Fresh Air Rider" <Fr*************@Hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:55**************************@posting.google.c om...

Hi

I understand that ASP.net 2.0 (Whidbey) is going to reduce coding by
70%.

Surely this is going to de-skill or dumb down the developers task and
open up the task to less qualified and trained staff.

Tell me if I'm wrong.