Is Visual Studio .NET ideal for ASP.NET + HTML site?

[Don Wash]

Hi All!

First of all I would like to say that VS.NET is one of the finest IDE I've
used in years. It really helps me code quickly. Workspace management using
auto hide windows, minimizing and maximizing of code segments, TO-DO list
management and automatic documentation (to name a few) are all superb. So I
really want to make the VS.NET IDE the primary development tool for me.

However, when it comes to developing ASP.NET websites, I have some
confusions. For instance, when I develop websites in ASP.NET, I want some of
them to be HTML and others to be ASPX. But the Solution Explorer only shows
ASPX files and other limited set of files. So I have to use Notepad or
Dreamweaver to edit the HTML and other files. This is really a pain when
rapidly developing ASPX websites.

Also it is hard to distinguish and manage the website files (ASPX and HTML
files) with VS.NET project files (vbproj, vbproj.webinfo and sln files to
name a few). In Classic ASP, all the development was done separately on VB6
or C++ and only the resulting DLL file is ported to the web directory so no
issues of mixing up project files and web files (but of course DLL hell is
there :P).

I must admit that my knowledge of VS.NET is only beginner level so that I'm
hoping someone to shed some light on this.

Many Thanks!
Don

[Mark Rae]

"Don Wash" <do*@wash.com> wrote in message
news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...

However, when it comes to developing ASP.NET websites, I have some
confusions. For instance, when I develop websites in ASP.NET, I want some of them to be HTML and others to be ASPX. But the Solution Explorer only shows ASPX files and other limited set of files. So I have to use Notepad or
Dreamweaver to edit the HTML and other files. This is really a pain when
rapidly developing ASPX websites.

1) If you haven't added the HTML files to your project, they won't display
in the Solution Explorer unless you click the Show All Files button.

2) To add a new HTML file into an ASP.NET project, right-click the project
name, select Add, then Add HTML page.

3) To add an existing HTML file into an ASP.NET project, simply drag it into
the project from Windows Explorer, into a folder if you want.

[Rob Meade]

"Don Wash" wrote ...

Hi Don,

For instance, when I develop websites in ASP.NET, I want some of
them to be HTML and others to be ASPX. But the Solution Explorer only shows ASPX files and other limited set of files. So I have to use Notepad or
Dreamweaver to edit the HTML and other files. This is really a pain when
rapidly developing ASPX websites.
Right-click on your project - choose 'Add new item' - scroll down a bit and
you'll see a HTML page option - it adds files as page.htm for example.
Also it is hard to distinguish and manage the website files (ASPX and HTML
files) with VS.NET project files (vbproj, vbproj.webinfo and sln files to
name a few).
In VS you can hide most of the file types or show them, such as the aspx.vb
and and aspx.res - the button to toggle is above your solution name in
Solution Explorer - 3rd in from the left..
I must admit that my knowledge of VS.NET is only beginner level so that I'm hoping someone to shed some light on this.

Mine too - but at least point 1 above should help :o)

Regards

Rob

[Doug]

<<<So I have to use Notepad or Dreamweaver to edit the HTML and other files.
This is really a pain when rapidly developing ASPX websites.>>

Don - I feel your pain!

I agree that VS.NET is superb and I use it for all of my code-behind work
and testing/debugging.

BUT

When I'm doing any serious development work I switch back and forth between
VS.NET and Dreamweaver. The reason for this is that when you are editing
HTML, VS.NET may decide to completely rearrange your HTML code (in your ASPX
or HTML files). It doesn't simply give you your original page layout but
with different HTML - it actaully gives you a brand new layout - and one you
probably won't like that in no way resembles your original layout (and no
way to undo the re arrangement).

This is a well-known and big-time issue with developers that Microsoft is
plenty aware of and they're promising to fix it in the next release of
Visual Studio - so there's no need to start yet another heated debate over
this issue here. In any case the first time it happens to you, you'll be
running for Dreamweaver or Notepad.

Separately, VS.NET is not designed nor intended to provide many of the site
management features packed into Dreamweaver.

Don't get rid of Dreamweaver quite yet.

-D

[Don Wash]

Thanks Ron,

Any ideas on the problem I've presented to Mark?

Cheers,
Don

"Rob Meade" <ro**********@NOSPAMubht.swest.nhs.uk> wrote in message
news:uG****************@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...

"Don Wash" wrote ...

Hi Don,

For instance, when I develop websites in ASP.NET, I want some of
them to be HTML and others to be ASPX. But the Solution Explorer only shows

ASPX files and other limited set of files. So I have to use Notepad or
Dreamweaver to edit the HTML and other files. This is really a pain when
rapidly developing ASPX websites.

Right-click on your project - choose 'Add new item' - scroll down a bit

and you'll see a HTML page option - it adds files as page.htm for example.

Also it is hard to distinguish and manage the website files (ASPX and HTML files) with VS.NET project files (vbproj, vbproj.webinfo and sln files to name a few).
In VS you can hide most of the file types or show them, such as the

aspx.vb and and aspx.res - the button to toggle is above your solution name in
Solution Explorer - 3rd in from the left..

I must admit that my knowledge of VS.NET is only beginner level so that

I'm

hoping someone to shed some light on this.

Mine too - but at least point 1 above should help :o)

Regards

Rob

[Don Wash]

Hi Mark,

Thanks for the reply! I can now see the HTML files and other files. However,
how can I solve the problem that VS.NET project files are mixing with web
files? Obviously I don't want them to be uploaded to the web server.

Thanks again,
Don

"Mark Rae" <ma**@mark-N-O-S-P-A-M-rae.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ed**************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...

"Don Wash" <do*@wash.com> wrote in message
news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...

However, when it comes to developing ASP.NET websites, I have some
confusions. For instance, when I develop websites in ASP.NET, I want

some of

them to be HTML and others to be ASPX. But the Solution Explorer only shows

ASPX files and other limited set of files. So I have to use Notepad or
Dreamweaver to edit the HTML and other files. This is really a pain when
rapidly developing ASPX websites.

1) If you haven't added the HTML files to your project, they won't display
in the Solution Explorer unless you click the Show All Files button.

2) To add a new HTML file into an ASP.NET project, right-click the project
name, select Add, then Add HTML page.

3) To add an existing HTML file into an ASP.NET project, simply drag it

into the project from Windows Explorer, into a folder if you want.

[Rob Meade]

"Don Wash" wrote ...

Any ideas on the problem I've presented to Mark?

Just replied to that...

:o)

Rob

[Rob Meade]

"Don Wash" wrote ...

Thanks for the reply! I can now see the HTML files and other files. However, how can I solve the problem that VS.NET project files are mixing with web
files? Obviously I don't want them to be uploaded to the web server.

Hi Don,

When you finish your project you can specify which files get sent to the
destination - you can specify all files associated to this project, or only
files needed to run this project etc etc..

I dont typically worry about whats on my localhost machine when developing
something, when I send it up I just fire off the files needed to run the
projects and its always been happy so far...

It was a bit odd to get to grips with initially, one of the classics was
when I dropped files manually into the directory it had already put my
project files in - I then opened VS to find that they were displayed -
having spent over an hour going back and forth, back and forth and swearing
quite a lot - comments regarding VS, comments regarding .Net I evenutally
found the "add items" options and realised what I had to do...

Bare with it - it does get easier ;o)

Regards

Rob

[Scott M.]

> This is a well-known and big-time issue with developers that Microsoft is

plenty aware of and they're promising to fix it in the next release of
Visual Studio - so there's no need to start yet another heated debate over
this issue here. In any case the first time it happens to you, you'll be
running for Dreamweaver or Notepad.

The "Auto Format" feature you speak of can be configured or even turned off
from within the Tools...Options dialogs.

[Doug]

> The "Auto Format" feature you speak of can be configured or even turned
off

from within the Tools...Options dialogs.

Really - where specifically is it? Can you tell me exactly how to turn it
off?

I'm especially interested being that there (1) I didn't find it there - and
I have looked carefully (2) online help doesn't mention it, and (3) are many
discussions in this very group mention how it's a big problem that Microsoft
is addressing. I have previously asked about it in this group as have many
others and the response has always been the same - "...wait for the 2005
version - until then, don't throw away your favorite HTML editor..."

[Lucas Tam]

"Doug" <Cl******@Livermore.com> wrote in news:OYnAbAVeEHA.3132
@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl:

Don't get rid of Dreamweaver quite yet.

I wholeheartedly agree. Dreamweaver kicks VS.NET's butt when it comes to
HTML editing.

--
Lucas Tam (RE********@rogers.com)
Please delete "REMOVE" from the e-mail address when replying.
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/coolspot18/

[Greg Burns]

(credit to Herfried, if I recall, for the link)

http://blogs.msdn.com/MikhailArkhipo...16/132886.aspx

"You do can switch formatting off in Tools | Options, but it will not solve
the underlying issue, it will only switch off pretty formatting."

Never tried turning it off myself, but sounds like it may still not help a
whole lot. Very aggravating.

Greg
"Doug" <Cl******@Livermore.com> wrote in message
news:%2***************@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...

The "Auto Format" feature you speak of can be configured or even turned off

from within the Tools...Options dialogs.

Really - where specifically is it? Can you tell me exactly how to turn it
off?

I'm especially interested being that there (1) I didn't find it there -

and I have looked carefully (2) online help doesn't mention it, and (3) are many discussions in this very group mention how it's a big problem that Microsoft is addressing. I have previously asked about it in this group as have many
others and the response has always been the same - "...wait for the 2005
version - until then, don't throw away your favorite HTML editor..."

[Cor Ligthert]

Don,

Thanks for the reply! I can now see the HTML files and other files. However, how can I solve the problem that VS.NET project files are mixing with web
files? Obviously I don't want them to be uploaded to the web server.

Why do you upload your project files to the webserver?

Cor

[Cor Ligthert]

Doug,

Visual Studio Net is in my opinion perfect for HTML editing, however not for
cut and past Website development. For that are better tools.

Just my opinion.

Cor

[Cor Ligthert]

Greg,

For HTML editing I never use the designview part I go direct to "view in
browser", that is very fast and implements direct my javascript and css even
when I store that on a server on the other and of the world.

Cor

[Greg Burns]

If you use VS.NET's built in Copy Project menu item (off of the Project
menu), it will copy ONLY the necessary files.

Greg
"Don Wash" <do*@wash.com> wrote in message
news:uz**************@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...

Hi Mark,

Thanks for the reply! I can now see the HTML files and other files. However, how can I solve the problem that VS.NET project files are mixing with web
files? Obviously I don't want them to be uploaded to the web server.

Thanks again,
Don

[Mark Rae]

"Lucas Tam" <RE********@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:Xn***************************@140.99.99.130.. .

I wholeheartedly agree. Dreamweaver kicks VS.NET's butt when it comes to
HTML editing.

Are you listening to this, Microsoft? 'Cos if you're not, you should be! A
whole slew of your users think that part of one of your flagship development
tools is not as good as the opposition, which is what you hate more than
anything else, right...?

And I agree with them, BTW...:-)

[Scott M.]

Tools...Options

Text Editor section
HTML/XML section
Format sub-section
"Doug" <Cl******@Livermore.com> wrote in message
news:%2***************@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...

The "Auto Format" feature you speak of can be configured or even turned off

from within the Tools...Options dialogs.

Really - where specifically is it? Can you tell me exactly how to turn it
off?

I'm especially interested being that there (1) I didn't find it there -

and I have looked carefully (2) online help doesn't mention it, and (3) are many discussions in this very group mention how it's a big problem that Microsoft is addressing. I have previously asked about it in this group as have many
others and the response has always been the same - "...wait for the 2005
version - until then, don't throw away your favorite HTML editor..."

[Mark Rae]

"Greg Burns" <greg_burns@DONT_SPAM_ME_hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:uF****************@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...

(credit to Herfried, if I recall, for the link)

http://blogs.msdn.com/MikhailArkhipo...16/132886.aspx

"You do can switch formatting off in Tools | Options, but it will not solve the underlying issue, it will only switch off pretty formatting."

Never tried turning it off myself, but sounds like it may still not help a
whole lot. Very aggravating.

It helps a bit, but not completely. This is pretty much the only serious
gripe I have with VS.NET 2003. It's not only the reformatting that's
annoying - it's yet another example of the arrogance of Microsoft. I have a
real problem with anyone making these sorts of decisions for me, ESPECIALLY
over something like the layout of my code. I'm 110% behind syntax-checking
and all that - if my code is bad, if it doesn't compile, then tell me -
that's the compiler's job. But please for pity's sake don't assume you know
better than I do how I like to arrange the white space in MY HTML code! An
..aspx file is just a text file the same as a .cs file or a .vb file, and you
don't mess around with the layout of those, so why would you even have
bothered to develop the routine which COMPLETELY RUINS the layout of my HTML
which I've just spent AGES getting to look the way I want!!!??? Or, at
least, why won't you let me switch the thing completely off!!!???

OK - counting to ten and pouring another glass of Beaujolais - deep blue
ocean, deep blue ocean...

[Scott M.]

I've been hearing these complaints since FrontPage 97. And, I have to say
that many (not all) of the complaints come from folks who either don't know
how to configure the product to their liking (see my earlier reply in this
thread about turning off auto-formatting) or they don't understand how MS
intends their products to be used.

MS FrontPage is a wonderful HTML designer/editor with many site management
capabilities. VS .NET is more of a hard-core development environment and
not so much a site management tool.

You can use FP for low end HTML design if you like as well as site
management and VS .NET for the programming.

"Mark Rae" <ma**@mark-N-O-S-P-A-M-rae.co.uk> wrote in message
news:uM*************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...

"Lucas Tam" <RE********@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:Xn***************************@140.99.99.130.. .

I wholeheartedly agree. Dreamweaver kicks VS.NET's butt when it comes to
HTML editing.
Are you listening to this, Microsoft? 'Cos if you're not, you should be! A
whole slew of your users think that part of one of your flagship

development tools is not as good as the opposition, which is what you hate more than
anything else, right...?

And I agree with them, BTW...:-)

[Mark Rae]

"Scott M." <s-***@nospam.nospam> wrote in message
news:eY*************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...

Tools...Options

Text Editor section
HTML/XML section
Format sub-section

Goes about 50% of the way to fixing the problem...

[Lau Lei Cheong]

I'll say that it'll be more handy for Microsoft to make the
frontpage/dreamweaver plugin for VS.NET, if they think that way. So people
can choose to use the built in HTML editor of VS.NET or other HTML editor of
their choice much the same way as they can choose to use the built-in
browser or IE to view the ASP.NET pages.

Afterall "intergration" is what we ask an "Intergrated Development
Environment" for.

"Scott M." <s-***@nospam.nospam> ¦b¶l¥ó
news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl ¤¤¼¶¼g...

I've been hearing these complaints since FrontPage 97. And, I have to say
that many (not all) of the complaints come from folks who either don't know how to configure the product to their liking (see my earlier reply in this
thread about turning off auto-formatting) or they don't understand how MS
intends their products to be used.

MS FrontPage is a wonderful HTML designer/editor with many site management
capabilities. VS .NET is more of a hard-core development environment and
not so much a site management tool.

You can use FP for low end HTML design if you like as well as site
management and VS .NET for the programming.

"Mark Rae" <ma**@mark-N-O-S-P-A-M-rae.co.uk> wrote in message
news:uM*************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...

"Lucas Tam" <RE********@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:Xn***************************@140.99.99.130.. .

I wholeheartedly agree. Dreamweaver kicks VS.NET's butt when it comes to HTML editing.

Are you listening to this, Microsoft? 'Cos if you're not, you should be! A whole slew of your users think that part of one of your flagship

development

tools is not as good as the opposition, which is what you hate more than
anything else, right...?

And I agree with them, BTW...:-)

[darrel]

> And hence, the issue gets exacerbated. What I'm hearing is that MS
customers

are asking for a functionality that they have found in a competitor's
product.

Most folks just want an HTML editor that doesn't mess with *my* HTML. That
is why there are so many of us that still rely on Dreamweaver.

Microsoft, of course, could care less about well formed/standards-compliant
HTML. .net has a long way to go as does VS.net, and, certainly IE.

If you work in .net, there are only so many tools you are going to
use...most from MS, so there isn't necessarily a strong reason FOR them to
fix these things in any sort of expidited manner. Hopefully, Whidbey will be
an improvement.

-Darrel