General .Net Question

[Jolly Student]

Dear Colleagues:

I am a systems guy who has been working with hardware, networking and basic
scripting for ten years or so. I have been given the opportunity to attend
..Net classes of all sorts as part of the MSDN training track. I already
have the MCSE track under my belt and that is where my strengths lie.

The problem is that I have never programmed. Hell, the only scripting I
have done is from templates here and there that are so simple that you can
figure out what does what, set them inside of an active directory
organizational unit and pooft.

Now here is the question. . . if I start taking these classes without any
knowledge of programming, including no knowledge of vbasic, am I going to
drown in a heartbeat or do these classes start as if they were vbasic, but
more .net thrown in.

Advice would be greatly appreciated.

Roger

[Scott M.]

Learning .NET is no more difficult than learning any programming language
from scratch. The key is to understand that VB 6.0 and VB .NET are not the
same thing and knowing one does not mean that you know the other.

I would say you would be fine taking .NET courses as long as you understand
that you are learning something new and not try to treat it as VB with some
..NET thrown it.
"Jolly Student" <jo***@joy.co m> wrote in message
news:WB******** ***********@new s4.srv.hcvlny.c v.net...

Dear Colleagues:

I am a systems guy who has been working with hardware, networking and basic scripting for ten years or so. I have been given the opportunity to attend .Net classes of all sorts as part of the MSDN training track. I already
have the MCSE track under my belt and that is where my strengths lie.

The problem is that I have never programmed. Hell, the only scripting I
have done is from templates here and there that are so simple that you can
figure out what does what, set them inside of an active directory
organizational unit and pooft.

Now here is the question. . . if I start taking these classes without any
knowledge of programming, including no knowledge of vbasic, am I going to
drown in a heartbeat or do these classes start as if they were vbasic, but
more .net thrown in.

Advice would be greatly appreciated.

Roger

[Ken Cox [Microsoft MVP]]

Hi Roger,

Unless the class is really designed for VB beginners, you're going to have
problems. Beware, because some courses teach VB.NET with the assumption that
you already know VB but haven't got into .NET yet.

My recommendation would be to work through one of the Getting Started books
in VB.NET before starting any course.

Ken

"Jolly Student" <jo***@joy.co m> wrote in message
news:WB******** ***********@new s4.srv.hcvlny.c v.net...

Dear Colleagues:

I am a systems guy who has been working with hardware, networking and
basic
scripting for ten years or so. I have been given the opportunity to
attend
.Net classes of all sorts as part of the MSDN training track. I already
have the MCSE track under my belt and that is where my strengths lie.

The problem is that I have never programmed. Hell, the only scripting I
have done is from templates here and there that are so simple that you can
figure out what does what, set them inside of an active directory
organizational unit and pooft.

Now here is the question. . . if I start taking these classes without any
knowledge of programming, including no knowledge of vbasic, am I going to
drown in a heartbeat or do these classes start as if they were vbasic, but
more .net thrown in.

Advice would be greatly appreciated.

Roger

[clintonG]

Here it is in a nutshell Jolly...

Java presumed to enable software to be developed so it would run
on any hardware platform. The .NET Framework (DNF) is presumed
to enable software written using any language to run on one hardware
platform. That which we refer to as the WinTel platform. The converse
of the Java premise and one which is proving the better architecture.
Languages that utilize the DNF must be CLS compliant (Common
Language Specification).

The scripting language we work with to admin the WinTel platform
is VBScript; a light-weight variant of Visual Basic. There is no support
for VBScript in the .NET Framework as it is not CLS compliant and
never will be as Visual Basic.NET is present.

Only you can really assess your talents and skills but I can tell you
that you need not fear learning software development as it can be
learned if you apply yourself using the same focus you applied to
achieving your MCSE cert.

Have you considered the merits of using the MSDN training to focus
on a SQL Server MCDBA cert? They get paid more than MCAD
or MCSD developers and have better prospects for job security as
the MCDBA is closer to business process dependencies than
the typical application developer.

--
<%= Clinton Gallagher
A/E/C Consulting, Web Design, e-Commerce Software Development
Wauwatosa, Milwaukee County, Wisconsin USA
NET csgallagher@ REMOVETHISTEXT metromilwaukee. com
URL http://www.metromilwaukee.com/clintongallagher/
"Jolly Student" <jo***@joy.co m> wrote in message
news:WB******** ***********@new s4.srv.hcvlny.c v.net...

Dear Colleagues:

I am a systems guy who has been working with hardware, networking and basic
scripting for ten years or so. I have been given the opportunity to attend
.Net classes of all sorts as part of the MSDN training track. I already
have the MCSE track under my belt and that is where my strengths lie.

The problem is that I have never programmed. Hell, the only scripting I
have done is from templates here and there that are so simple that you can
figure out what does what, set them inside of an active directory
organizational unit and pooft.

Now here is the question. . . if I start taking these classes without any
knowledge of programming, including no knowledge of vbasic, am I going to
drown in a heartbeat or do these classes start as if they were vbasic, but
more .net thrown in.

Advice would be greatly appreciated.

Roger

[Jolly Student]

Dear Scott:

Thank you for that. I guess you could say that I have the distinct
advantage of not knowing ANYTHING about programming whatsoever so I am
unable to treat .Net as Vb or anything else.

Regards,

Roger

Learning .NET is no more difficult than learning any programming language
from scratch. The key is to understand that VB 6.0 and VB .NET are not the same thing and knowing one does not mean that you know the other.

I would say you would be fine taking .NET courses as long as you understand that you are learning something new and not try to treat it as VB with some .NET thrown it.

[Jolly Student]

Dear Ken:

Thank you for your advise. The problem is that I don't want to find myself
in a VB class for total morons. . . I mean, if I ever walk into another
class expecting to get a logical understanding of something at "my level"
and find a bunch of grandmothers (literally) in the class, I am going to
flip.

The class I am considering as a starter is "2559 Introduction to Microsoft
VB.NET Programming with Microsoft .NET".

Thats about as much as I know about it, but the prerequisites are that you
know how to use a mouse and windows at have at least three months
understanding basic programming concepts.

I am pretty confident I can catch up, but since I have never programmed. . .
its a bit scary. Then again, even a few classes that I have taken where I
thought I would be scared I turned out to master. . . I guess that a good
part of it is just to believe in yourself.

Unless the class is really designed for VB beginners, you're going to have
problems. Beware, because some courses teach VB.NET with the assumption that you already know VB but haven't got into .NET yet.

My recommendation would be to work through one of the Getting Started books in VB.NET before starting any course.

Ken

[Jolly Student]

MCDBA. . . hmm, SQL is definately in my future for other things as well.
As I have been thanking the posters above and answering, I guess that just
attacking the matter and asking lots of question will make it work. Desire
is the better part of it.

In terms of what to go into for the $$, I really have not though of it that
much. Although I certainly like the fact that I am currently into contract
negotiations that, with a bit of luck, will land me very close to the 100k
mark, I really think of the money as secondary. I am a total addict when it
comes to computers. Linux, Netware and Microsoft (my core strength) are
things that I play with at both work and home. .. its my passion.

So I think you confirmed that the answer to my question is one that will be
driven by desire and effort.

Regards,

Rog

Here it is in a nutshell Jolly...

Java presumed to enable software to be developed so it would run
on any hardware platform. The .NET Framework (DNF) is presumed
to enable software written using any language to run on one hardware
platform. That which we refer to as the WinTel platform. The converse
of the Java premise and one which is proving the better architecture.
Languages that utilize the DNF must be CLS compliant (Common
Language Specification).

The scripting language we work with to admin the WinTel platform
is VBScript; a light-weight variant of Visual Basic. There is no support
for VBScript in the .NET Framework as it is not CLS compliant and
never will be as Visual Basic.NET is present.

Only you can really assess your talents and skills but I can tell you
that you need not fear learning software development as it can be
learned if you apply yourself using the same focus you applied to
achieving your MCSE cert.

Have you considered the merits of using the MSDN training to focus
on a SQL Server MCDBA cert? They get paid more than MCAD
or MCSD developers and have better prospects for job security as
the MCDBA is closer to business process dependencies than
the typical application developer.

[Kevin Spencer]

Hi Roger,

It depends on the class. I recommend that anyone learning to program from
the beginning (such as yourself) take a class in C to get their feet wet. VB
is a high-level language that hides much of the internal operation of the
program from the developer, which makes it a RAD (Rapid Application
Development) language (but not very efficient or fast). However, C is a
language which is low-level enough to teach you exactly how the computer
processes instructions. VB is not strongly-typed, which seems to create a
lot of VB developers who don't understand much if anything about how data is
stored in memory, which is a very important thing to understand if you want
to be a powerful programmer. And C includes support for pointers, which are
variables that "point" to an address directly in memory. Understanding
pointers will give you a much better understanding of how high-level Objects
(such as classes) are structured and operate. Pointers are USED by VB, but
hidden from the developer. Understanding pointers can help you understand,
for example, what the difference is between passing a variable by value or
by reference, which is an important concept to grasp. In my experience in
helping people on this newsgroup, by far, the vast majority of those having
trouble came from a pure VB/VBScript background.

--
HTH,
Kevin Spencer
..Net Developer
Microsoft MVP
Big things are made up
of lots of little things.
"Jolly Student" <jo***@joy.co m> wrote in message
news:WB******** ***********@new s4.srv.hcvlny.c v.net...

Dear Colleagues:

I am a systems guy who has been working with hardware, networking and basic scripting for ten years or so. I have been given the opportunity to attend .Net classes of all sorts as part of the MSDN training track. I already
have the MCSE track under my belt and that is where my strengths lie.

The problem is that I have never programmed. Hell, the only scripting I
have done is from templates here and there that are so simple that you can
figure out what does what, set them inside of an active directory
organizational unit and pooft.

Now here is the question. . . if I start taking these classes without any
knowledge of programming, including no knowledge of vbasic, am I going to
drown in a heartbeat or do these classes start as if they were vbasic, but
more .net thrown in.

Advice would be greatly appreciated.

Roger

[clintonG]

One more point -- ever hear it said "don't let your mouth write a
check that your @ss can't cash?"

What I mean is not to mistakenly believe that your pithy experience
with scripting is sufficient to learn OOP languages that are used to
develop DNF solutions. Object Oriented Programming (OOP) is
very much different than scripting and will be extremely challenging
to learn and master.

That is why I suggest you begin with SQL Server with an eye on
the MSDBA cert. There is enough SQL programming to help you
determine if you like writing code, it is easier than OOP which is as
I contend very difficult to just jump in and learn, and the SQL Server
exam can also be reused for the MCAD cert should you decide
writing code is something you like to do and can become good
at over time.

If that should happen, I would also recommend C# as all contemporary
development can be understood as 'web development' even though
there are dwindling arguments regarding development of 'Windows
applications' but understand that the C# syntax and grammar are
nearly identical to JavaScript and Java itself should you ever need to
master web development, XML Web Services or cross-platform
development using Java.

Food for thought...

--
<%= Clinton Gallagher
A/E/C Consulting, Web Design, e-Commerce Software Development
Wauwatosa, Milwaukee County, Wisconsin USA
NET csgallagher@ REMOVETHISTEXT metromilwaukee. com
URL http://www.metromilwaukee.com/clintongallagher/

"Jolly Student" <jo***@joy.co m> wrote in message
news:8c******** ************@ne ws4.srv.hcvlny. cv.net...

MCDBA. . . hmm, SQL is definately in my future for other things as well.
As I have been thanking the posters above and answering, I guess that just
attacking the matter and asking lots of question will make it work. Desire
is the better part of it.

In terms of what to go into for the $$, I really have not though of it that
much. Although I certainly like the fact that I am currently into contract
negotiations that, with a bit of luck, will land me very close to the 100k
mark, I really think of the money as secondary. I am a total addict when it
comes to computers. Linux, Netware and Microsoft (my core strength) are
things that I play with at both work and home. .. its my passion.

So I think you confirmed that the answer to my question is one that will be
driven by desire and effort.

Regards,

Rog

Here it is in a nutshell Jolly...

Java presumed to enable software to be developed so it would run
on any hardware platform. The .NET Framework (DNF) is presumed
to enable software written using any language to run on one hardware
platform. That which we refer to as the WinTel platform. The converse
of the Java premise and one which is proving the better architecture.
Languages that utilize the DNF must be CLS compliant (Common
Language Specification).

The scripting language we work with to admin the WinTel platform
is VBScript; a light-weight variant of Visual Basic. There is no support
for VBScript in the .NET Framework as it is not CLS compliant and
never will be as Visual Basic.NET is present.

Only you can really assess your talents and skills but I can tell you
that you need not fear learning software development as it can be
learned if you apply yourself using the same focus you applied to
achieving your MCSE cert.

Have you considered the merits of using the MSDN training to focus
on a SQL Server MCDBA cert? They get paid more than MCAD
or MCSD developers and have better prospects for job security as
the MCDBA is closer to business process dependencies than
the typical application developer.