Question on Using Partial Types with ASP.NET via J.I.T.

[nospam]

I got three (3) files

(1) Untitled.aspx
(2) Untitled.aspx.1 .cs
(3) Untitled.aspx.2 .cs

These three files must be used together to make file #1, Untitled.aspx, page
work via
J.I.T. when the User first hits Internet Explorer 6.0 on your browser.
MY QUESTION to the Microsoft ASP.NET and C# teams.

I know how file #2,Untitled.asp x.1.cs, is connected and can be found by file
#1, the Untitled.aspx page.
How does file #3, Untitled.aspx.2 .cs, get found by the file #1 when I the
first time with Internet Explorer?

IN OTHER WORDS, I am NOT using pre-compile for VS.NET to make these file
compile together.
I would be just using J.I.T. compiling like you do now with src= attribute
in a ASP.NET page.

[nospam]

Maybe you should mind your own business.

SysAdmin generally don't know anything about SQL Server programming, nor or
they PAID to do so.

Not true. Even if you set your SQL server to use integrated security, the
only windows users who have access to the server by default are local and/or domain administrators. Regular users ONLY have access once an admin has
granted them access. In addition, the same security restrictions that can
be placed on sql users, can be placed on windows users. When granting a
windows user access to a database, a sql server login is actually created to represent the windows user.
And do we need the LOCAL admin or DOMAIN admin to have access to the SQL
Server...they don't know any sql programming anyway, nor are they familiar
with the tables or the store procedures and much less the application that
uses the database anyway.

Um... the SysAdmin is generally responsible for the health and maintenence
of the server on which SQL server rides on. In fact, the sys admin is often responsible for many of the same types of tasks that the DBA is responsible for.
THEN you are NOT only a SYSADMIN. IF you perform DBA tasks, you are also a
DBA. If you walk like a DBA, talk like a DBA and quack like a DBA, then you
are a DBA.
Not always true. Consider the fact that not all businesses have only 1 web and 1 sql server to manage. Some of them have 10s, or even hundreds.

Well, you know they should be all in the SAME room and with a separate
network switch from the intranet then.....

And a disgruntled DBA with admin access to the db couldn't do the same
thing? Not a good argument.

YES it is a GOOD argument as you then have a PRETTY good IDEA of who had
access then.
Did you forget, "the principle of least privilege"? that's what they taught
you in the NT security world right?

What do they teach in in security school? Each attack is a NEW, "un-thought
of" attack.

Regular user or Admin User...DOES it REALLY MATTER as this new attack will
exploit this domain relationship and get a regular user to elevate their
user rights to admin rights, accidentally or mischievously ...
This has been a successful mode of attack before.....and it can be done many
many ways......

You allow them to possibly exploit an undocumented or unknown bug in the
system..."softw are will always have bugs, right???"


"-=Chris=-" <us*@newsgroup. instead> wrote in message
news:vr******** ****@corp.super news.com... I was minding my own business when nospam blurted out:

The last person you ever want to give access to your SQL Server is a Sys
Admin!!!!
Um... the SysAdmin is generally responsible for the health and maintenence
of the server on which SQL server rides on. In fact, the sys admin is

often responsible for many of the same types of tasks that the DBA is responsible for. Speaking for myself, as a sys admin, I would refuse to manage a server that I did not have access to. That would be like asking a developer to
develop a database application without access to the database.

Most attacks and computer crimes come from the inside...and GUESS
WHO those insiders might be? disgruntled SysAdmin.....
And a disgruntled DBA with admin access to the db couldn't do the same
thing? Not a good argument.

By opening up SQL Server to the Windows Security all those on the Windows side are now potential suspects IF a computer crime would be

committed.....

Not true. Even if you set your SQL server to use integrated security, the
only windows users who have access to the server by default are local

and/or domain administrators. Regular users ONLY have access once an admin has
granted them access. In addition, the same security restrictions that can
be placed on sql users, can be placed on windows users. When granting a
windows user access to a database, a sql server login is actually created to represent the windows user.

Second of all if there is a Web Server, the SQL server should be in the same

room with an independent $50 dollar network switch directly connected to

the

Web server thereby eliminating any network intercepts in the first

place.
Not always true. Consider the fact that not all businesses have only 1 web and 1 sql server to manage. Some of them have 10s, or even hundreds.

--
Insert corny line here

[nospam]

Here is another example of Microsoft security.....an d why Integrated
security should cause you to FEEL INSECURE...

Mail server flaw opens Exchange to spam
http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1105_2-5107904.html

Again and again......if it's not one thing, it's another........

Yeah, right, let's listen to Microsoft on security.......

Anyone basically can, on any given day, look up and see another flaw in
security or OOP or n-Tier....you name it, it's I.T. that doesn't know what
they are doing.....

stupid brainwashed programmers who listen to these authors, "so-called"
architects, gurus, Mr.-I-have-3+articles written-on-DevX-or-wrox, or some
..NET magazine......a gain and again...sitting around on a white board mapping
out UML has proven to be so failure ridden I don't know how you guys get
away with it!!!

.....Oh, wait.....you guys smoozy up with those VC's like Hummer Windblad and
their failed petstore who could not figure out that people don't want to pay
for shipping on a 50lb bag of dog food....duhhh.. ....they could have at
least asked their mom about that!!!!

ah yes one 10page resume MBA leading another 10page resume MCSD.......

The only thing these MBA, MCSD, MVP's and gurus are good at are their
PowerPoint slides and typing their 3 and 4 letter acronyms....

Typing 3-4 letter acronyms onto a computer is not the same as typing out the
entire production code to a web app.

Example code and apps are not PRODUCTION apps....ask the
DotNetJunkies.. ....I bet you deep down, they feel a lot different then what
they are saying.......an d OOP and n-Tier are not what they are cut out to
be.......Look at the DotNetNuke re-write....shawn thinks that's the only
way...yet in his blogs he's complaining about how hard and how much time he
spent just trying to separate the data tier cleanly...and for WHAT???? to
hook up to some Access database.....al l that trouble for people who want to
their database for free, yet the developer who spent all the time
programming thinks he is going to get paid for all that effort...ha ha
ha.....sooner or latter, this developer is going to learn that people who
are going to pay him something is going to pay for SQL Server....you think
people who want to use an Access database care about performance, security,
and the long term....guess again, if they don't care enough to even spend
for a $1000 copy of single client license sql server...don't you ever expect
them to pay you for n-Tier, OOP solution......

oh, but wait a second...let's let the access db get corrupted and then they
will come a running to you and then you can charge them more!!!!!, or will
they blame you........eith er way.....somethi ng gets a lot of downtime,
unhappy customers, and all because someone didn't stand their ground.....



"nospam" <[e-mail] > wrote in message
news:u2******** ******@TK2MSFTN GP10.phx.gbl...

Maybe you should mind your own business.

SysAdmin generally don't know anything about SQL Server programming, nor or they PAID to do so.

Not true. Even if you set your SQL server to use integrated security, the

only windows users who have access to the server by default are local and/or

domain administrators. Regular users ONLY have access once an admin has
granted them access. In addition, the same security restrictions that can be placed on sql users, can be placed on windows users. When granting a
windows user access to a database, a sql server login is actually created to

represent the windows user.
And do we need the LOCAL admin or DOMAIN admin to have access to the SQL
Server...they don't know any sql programming anyway, nor are they familiar
with the tables or the store procedures and much less the application that
uses the database anyway.

Um... the SysAdmin is generally responsible for the health and

maintenence of the server on which SQL server rides on. In fact, the sys admin is

often

responsible for many of the same types of tasks that the DBA is

responsible

for.

THEN you are NOT only a SYSADMIN. IF you perform DBA tasks, you are also

a DBA. If you walk like a DBA, talk like a DBA and quack like a DBA, then you are a DBA.

Not always true. Consider the fact that not all businesses have only 1 web

and 1 sql server to manage. Some of them have 10s, or even hundreds.

Well, you know they should be all in the SAME room and with a separate
network switch from the intranet then.....

And a disgruntled DBA with admin access to the db couldn't do the same
thing? Not a good argument.

YES it is a GOOD argument as you then have a PRETTY good IDEA of who had
access then.
Did you forget, "the principle of least privilege"? that's what they

taught you in the NT security world right?

What do they teach in in security school? Each attack is a NEW, "un-thought of" attack.

Regular user or Admin User...DOES it REALLY MATTER as this new attack will
exploit this domain relationship and get a regular user to elevate their
user rights to admin rights, accidentally or mischievously ...
This has been a successful mode of attack before.....and it can be done many many ways......

You allow them to possibly exploit an undocumented or unknown bug in the
system..."softw are will always have bugs, right???"


"-=Chris=-" <us*@newsgroup. instead> wrote in message
news:vr******** ****@corp.super news.com...

I was minding my own business when nospam blurted out:

The last person you ever want to give access to your SQL Server is a Sys Admin!!!!
Um... the SysAdmin is generally responsible for the health and maintenence of the server on which SQL server rides on. In fact, the sys admin is

often

responsible for many of the same types of tasks that the DBA is

responsible

for. Speaking for myself, as a sys admin, I would refuse to manage a

server

that I did not have access to. That would be like asking a developer to
develop a database application without access to the database.

Most attacks and computer crimes come from the inside...and GUESS
WHO those insiders might be? disgruntled SysAdmin.....

And a disgruntled DBA with admin access to the db couldn't do the same
thing? Not a good argument.

By opening up SQL Server to the Windows Security all those on the Windows side are now potential suspects IF a computer crime would be

committed.....

Not true. Even if you set your SQL server to use integrated security,

the only windows users who have access to the server by default are local

and/or

domain administrators. Regular users ONLY have access once an admin has
granted them access. In addition, the same security restrictions that can be placed on sql users, can be placed on windows users. When granting a
windows user access to a database, a sql server login is actually created to

represent the windows user.

Second of all if there is a Web Server, the SQL server should be in

the same

room with an independent $50 dollar network switch directly connected

to the

Web server thereby eliminating any network intercepts in the first

place.

Not always true. Consider the fact that not all businesses have only 1

web

and 1 sql server to manage. Some of them have 10s, or even hundreds.

--
Insert corny line here

[NRGeti]

This is an excellent reply. I agree. Your comments actually apply across the
board for all kinds of programming. I never could understand how anyone who
knows how to write code but has no clue to business processes and user
behavior can ever come up with a working, useful system.

I have seen brilliant people who could recite the entire programming manual
page for page and write reams of code without ever printing it out to check
it and yet come up with a piece of cr** that the users hate.

Ok, so now you admit VS.NET sucks really bad as a designer tool. Let me ask you something.
How can any company be productive if they have no idea how the users are
going to interact with the program the developer wrote? How can the
developer test, performance tune, TRULLY debug, if they haven't the
slightest idea of how their program will be used?

VS.NET needs to have in mind the single word, "PRODUCTIVI TY" , not
"developer productivity" or "designer productivity" as what good is a
program written by a developer that has to be totally rewritten to how the
user is going to use it.

THE NUMBER #1 problem and reason for project failures is COMMUNICATION
between the developer and the client. Developers say, "It wasn't in the
spec! It wasn't in the spec!" Client's say, "but don't you know?? don't you know??"

Now, what's the solution here? Learn more OOP, UML, n-Tier to be more
flexible? How about refactoring and some design patterns for even better
design? Let's buy every single Apress and Wrox book you can find and read
those. yes!!!......tha t will solve everything..... .

NO, THE PROBLEM is that DEVELOPERS are TOO CLUELESS to KNOW what to develop in the first place!!!! AND they NEVER ASK in detail what need to be made and WHY they are making it!!!!!!!!

It's amazing, these DEVELOPERS and MVP and RD's and Program Managers go to
non-OOP programmers and VB6 programmers and anything below their skill level and say, "IT'S just TOOL and YOU NEED TO LEARN it like anything else".

***
YET, these very SAME DEVELOPERS are NOT EVEN willing to lift a FINGER to
L.E.A.R.N. a little bit about the "BUSINESS", UI, DESIGN and what the
customer wants in the first place.
***

Again, in the words of MISTER BILL, ".NET is SLOW GOING"....I wonder
WHY!!!!!
Ah yes, the GREAT DIVIDE...I guess abstraction will make everything
better!!!! HA HA HA HA....I can already see the results of abstraction in
the n-Tier..more failed IT projects than successess.

It's amazing!!! these System and Application Architects are SOooo
ABSTRACTED, it's no wonder why they have NO idea what the customer wants and why their app is soooo slow........but wait, the app is never delivered on
time anyway.....so we have no idea if it's slow to begin with as they are
are still in the "design phase of OOP"

*************** *************** *************** ******
OH, and by the WAY, COMDEX floor space is now 150,000 sqft.. down from
875,000 sqft. in the 1990s. And ATTENDANCE is 50,000...half of what it had last year......
http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,4149,1381579,00.asp
*************** *************** *************** ******
Wow, a single HomeDepot or Super Walmart could have more customers...
Any, REPEAT ANY, MVP, programmer, developer, author, IT person who says that what they are doing is making customers happy is simply in denial of their
failures.
Cheers!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!

[ozbear]

On Sun, 16 Nov 2003 17:04:24 -0600, "-=Chris=-"
<us*@newsgroup. instead> wrote:

I was minding my own business when nospam blurted out:

The last person you ever want to give access to your SQL Server is a Sys
Admin!!!!

Um... the SysAdmin is generally responsible for the health and maintenence
of the server on which SQL server rides on. In fact, the sys admin is often
responsible for many of the same types of tasks that the DBA is responsible
for. Speaking for myself, as a sys admin, I would refuse to manage a server
that I did not have access to. That would be like asking a developer to
develop a database application without access to the database.

<snip>
I wouldn't get my knickers in a bunch over anything that "nospam" had
to say on just about anything.

Oz

[Bob Lehmann]

So, you must be nospam's mom, I guess?

Bob Lehmann

"NRGeti" <ng***@optonlin e.net> wrote in message
news:PW******** **********@news 4.srv.hcvlny.cv .net...

This is an excellent reply. I agree. Your comments actually apply across the board for all kinds of programming. I never could understand how anyone who knows how to write code but has no clue to business processes and user
behavior can ever come up with a working, useful system.

I have seen brilliant people who could recite the entire programming manual page for page and write reams of code without ever printing it out to check it and yet come up with a piece of cr** that the users hate.

Ok, so now you admit VS.NET sucks really bad as a designer tool. Let me

ask

you something.
How can any company be productive if they have no idea how the users are
going to interact with the program the developer wrote? How can the
developer test, performance tune, TRULLY debug, if they haven't the
slightest idea of how their program will be used?

VS.NET needs to have in mind the single word, "PRODUCTIVI TY" , not
"developer productivity" or "designer productivity" as what good is a
program written by a developer that has to be totally rewritten to how the user is going to use it.

THE NUMBER #1 problem and reason for project failures is COMMUNICATION
between the developer and the client. Developers say, "It wasn't in the
spec! It wasn't in the spec!" Client's say, "but don't you know?? don't

you

know??"

Now, what's the solution here? Learn more OOP, UML, n-Tier to be more
flexible? How about refactoring and some design patterns for even better design? Let's buy every single Apress and Wrox book you can find and read those. yes!!!......tha t will solve everything..... .

NO, THE PROBLEM is that DEVELOPERS are TOO CLUELESS to KNOW what to

develop

in the first place!!!! AND they NEVER ASK in detail what need to be made

and

WHY they are making it!!!!!!!!

It's amazing, these DEVELOPERS and MVP and RD's and Program Managers go to non-OOP programmers and VB6 programmers and anything below their skill

level

and say, "IT'S just TOOL and YOU NEED TO LEARN it like anything else".

***
YET, these very SAME DEVELOPERS are NOT EVEN willing to lift a FINGER to
L.E.A.R.N. a little bit about the "BUSINESS", UI, DESIGN and what the
customer wants in the first place.
***

Again, in the words of MISTER BILL, ".NET is SLOW GOING"....I wonder
WHY!!!!!
Ah yes, the GREAT DIVIDE...I guess abstraction will make everything
better!!!! HA HA HA HA....I can already see the results of abstraction in the n-Tier..more failed IT projects than successess.

It's amazing!!! these System and Application Architects are SOooo
ABSTRACTED, it's no wonder why they have NO idea what the customer wants

and

why their app is soooo slow........but wait, the app is never delivered on time anyway.....so we have no idea if it's slow to begin with as they are are still in the "design phase of OOP"

*************** *************** *************** ******
OH, and by the WAY, COMDEX floor space is now 150,000 sqft.. down from
875,000 sqft. in the 1990s. And ATTENDANCE is 50,000...half of what it

had

last year......
http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,4149,1381579,00.asp
*************** *************** *************** ******
Wow, a single HomeDepot or Super Walmart could have more customers...
Any, REPEAT ANY, MVP, programmer, developer, author, IT person who says

that

what they are doing is making customers happy is simply in denial of their failures.
Cheers!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!

[NRGeti]

Nah! I am his pop. Anyway it sense to me on this issue.

"Bob Lehmann" <none> wrote in message
news:OG******** ******@TK2MSFTN GP10.phx.gbl...

So, you must be nospam's mom, I guess?

Bob Lehmann

"NRGeti" <ng***@optonlin e.net> wrote in message
news:PW******** **********@news 4.srv.hcvlny.cv .net...

This is an excellent reply. I agree. Your comments actually apply across the

board for all kinds of programming. I never could understand how anyone

who

knows how to write code but has no clue to business processes and user
behavior can ever come up with a working, useful system.

I have seen brilliant people who could recite the entire programming

manual

page for page and write reams of code without ever printing it out to

check

it and yet come up with a piece of cr** that the users hate.

Ok, so now you admit VS.NET sucks really bad as a designer tool. Let me

ask

you something.
How can any company be productive if they have no idea how the users

are going to interact with the program the developer wrote? How can the
developer test, performance tune, TRULLY debug, if they haven't the
slightest idea of how their program will be used?

VS.NET needs to have in mind the single word, "PRODUCTIVI TY" , not
"developer productivity" or "designer productivity" as what good is a
program written by a developer that has to be totally rewritten to how the user is going to use it.

THE NUMBER #1 problem and reason for project failures is COMMUNICATION
between the developer and the client. Developers say, "It wasn't in the spec! It wasn't in the spec!" Client's say, "but don't you know?? don't you

know??"

Now, what's the solution here? Learn more OOP, UML, n-Tier to be more
flexible? How about refactoring and some design patterns for even better design? Let's buy every single Apress and Wrox book you can find and read those. yes!!!......tha t will solve everything..... .

NO, THE PROBLEM is that DEVELOPERS are TOO CLUELESS to KNOW what to

develop

in the first place!!!! AND they NEVER ASK in detail what need to be

made

and

WHY they are making it!!!!!!!!

It's amazing, these DEVELOPERS and MVP and RD's and Program Managers

go to non-OOP programmers and VB6 programmers and anything below their skill level

and say, "IT'S just TOOL and YOU NEED TO LEARN it like anything else".

***
YET, these very SAME DEVELOPERS are NOT EVEN willing to lift a FINGER

to L.E.A.R.N. a little bit about the "BUSINESS", UI, DESIGN and what the
customer wants in the first place.
***

Again, in the words of MISTER BILL, ".NET is SLOW GOING"....I wonder
WHY!!!!!
Ah yes, the GREAT DIVIDE...I guess abstraction will make everything
better!!!! HA HA HA HA....I can already see the results of abstraction

in the n-Tier..more failed IT projects than successess.

It's amazing!!! these System and Application Architects are SOooo
ABSTRACTED, it's no wonder why they have NO idea what the customer

wants and

why their app is soooo slow........but wait, the app is never

delivered on time anyway.....so we have no idea if it's slow to begin with as they are are still in the "design phase of OOP"

*************** *************** *************** ******
OH, and by the WAY, COMDEX floor space is now 150,000 sqft.. down from
875,000 sqft. in the 1990s. And ATTENDANCE is 50,000...half of what

it had

last year......
http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,4149,1381579,00.asp
*************** *************** *************** ******
Wow, a single HomeDepot or Super Walmart could have more customers...
Any, REPEAT ANY, MVP, programmer, developer, author, IT person who

says that

what they are doing is making customers happy is simply in denial of

their failures.
Cheers!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!

[Bob Lehmann]

You must be very proud of him!

Bob Lehmann

"NRGeti" <ng***@optonlin e.net> wrote in message
news:1g******** *************@n ews4.srv.hcvlny .cv.net...

Nah! I am his pop. Anyway it sense to me on this issue.

"Bob Lehmann" <none> wrote in message
news:OG******** ******@TK2MSFTN GP10.phx.gbl...

So, you must be nospam's mom, I guess?

Bob Lehmann

"NRGeti" <ng***@optonlin e.net> wrote in message
news:PW******** **********@news 4.srv.hcvlny.cv .net...

This is an excellent reply. I agree. Your comments actually apply across

the

board for all kinds of programming. I never could understand how

anyone

who

knows how to write code but has no clue to business processes and user
behavior can ever come up with a working, useful system.

I have seen brilliant people who could recite the entire programming manual

page for page and write reams of code without ever printing it out to

check

it and yet come up with a piece of cr** that the users hate.
>
> Ok, so now you admit VS.NET sucks really bad as a designer tool.

Let me ask
> you something.
> How can any company be productive if they have no idea how the users are > going to interact with the program the developer wrote? How can the
> developer test, performance tune, TRULLY debug, if they haven't the
> slightest idea of how their program will be used?
>
> VS.NET needs to have in mind the single word, "PRODUCTIVI TY" , not
> "developer productivity" or "designer productivity" as what good is

a > program written by a developer that has to be totally rewritten to how the

> user is going to use it.
>
> THE NUMBER #1 problem and reason for project failures is

COMMUNICATION > between the developer and the client. Developers say, "It wasn't in

the > spec! It wasn't in the spec!" Client's say, "but don't you know?? don't you
> know??"
>
> Now, what's the solution here? Learn more OOP, UML, n-Tier to be more > flexible? How about refactoring and some design patterns for even

better

> design? Let's buy every single Apress and Wrox book you can find and read

> those. yes!!!......tha t will solve everything..... .
>
> NO, THE PROBLEM is that DEVELOPERS are TOO CLUELESS to KNOW what to
develop
> in the first place!!!! AND they NEVER ASK in detail what need to be made and
> WHY they are making it!!!!!!!!
>
> It's amazing, these DEVELOPERS and MVP and RD's and Program Managers go

to

> non-OOP programmers and VB6 programmers and anything below their

skill level
> and say, "IT'S just TOOL and YOU NEED TO LEARN it like anything else". >
> ***
> YET, these very SAME DEVELOPERS are NOT EVEN willing to lift a FINGER to > L.E.A.R.N. a little bit about the "BUSINESS", UI, DESIGN and what

the > customer wants in the first place.
> ***
>
> Again, in the words of MISTER BILL, ".NET is SLOW GOING"....I wonder
> WHY!!!!!
>
>
> Ah yes, the GREAT DIVIDE...I guess abstraction will make everything
> better!!!! HA HA HA HA....I can already see the results of abstraction in

> the n-Tier..more failed IT projects than successess.
>
> It's amazing!!! these System and Application Architects are SOooo
> ABSTRACTED, it's no wonder why they have NO idea what the customer wants and
> why their app is soooo slow........but wait, the app is never delivered

on

> time anyway.....so we have no idea if it's slow to begin with as

they are

> are still in the "design phase of OOP"
>
> *************** *************** *************** ******
> OH, and by the WAY, COMDEX floor space is now 150,000 sqft.. down

from > 875,000 sqft. in the 1990s. And ATTENDANCE is 50,000...half of what

it had
> last year......
> http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,4149,1381579,00.asp
> *************** *************** *************** ******
>
>
> Wow, a single HomeDepot or Super Walmart could have more customers... >
>
> Any, REPEAT ANY, MVP, programmer, developer, author, IT person who says that
> what they are doing is making customers happy is simply in denial of

their

> failures.
>
>
> Cheers!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!

[NRGeti]

Not at all. I haven't seen him since his birth. He got lost somehow.

"Bob Lehmann" <none> wrote in message
news:%2******** ********@tk2msf tngp13.phx.gbl. ..

You must be very proud of him!

Bob Lehmann

"NRGeti" <ng***@optonlin e.net> wrote in message
news:1g******** *************@n ews4.srv.hcvlny .cv.net...

Nah! I am his pop. Anyway it sense to me on this issue.

"Bob Lehmann" <none> wrote in message
news:OG******** ******@TK2MSFTN GP10.phx.gbl...

So, you must be nospam's mom, I guess?

Bob Lehmann

"NRGeti" <ng***@optonlin e.net> wrote in message
news:PW******** **********@news 4.srv.hcvlny.cv .net...
> This is an excellent reply. I agree. Your comments actually apply across the
> board for all kinds of programming. I never could understand how anyone who
> knows how to write code but has no clue to business processes and user > behavior can ever come up with a working, useful system.
>
> I have seen brilliant people who could recite the entire programming
manual
> page for page and write reams of code without ever printing it out to check
> it and yet come up with a piece of cr** that the users hate.
>
>
> >
> > Ok, so now you admit VS.NET sucks really bad as a designer tool. Let

me

> ask
> > you something.
> > How can any company be productive if they have no idea how the users

are

> > going to interact with the program the developer wrote? How can

the > > developer test, performance tune, TRULLY debug, if they haven't the > > slightest idea of how their program will be used?
> >
> > VS.NET needs to have in mind the single word, "PRODUCTIVI TY" , not
> > "developer productivity" or "designer productivity" as what good is

a > > program written by a developer that has to be totally rewritten to how the
> > user is going to use it.
> >
> > THE NUMBER #1 problem and reason for project failures is COMMUNICATION > > between the developer and the client. Developers say, "It wasn't

in the

> > spec! It wasn't in the spec!" Client's say, "but don't you know??

don't

> you
> > know??"
> >
> > Now, what's the solution here? Learn more OOP, UML, n-Tier to be more > > flexible? How about refactoring and some design patterns for even
better
> > design? Let's buy every single Apress and Wrox book you can find and read
> > those. yes!!!......tha t will solve everything..... .
> >
> > NO, THE PROBLEM is that DEVELOPERS are TOO CLUELESS to KNOW what

to > develop
> > in the first place!!!! AND they NEVER ASK in detail what need to be made

> and
> > WHY they are making it!!!!!!!!
> >
> > It's amazing, these DEVELOPERS and MVP and RD's and Program

Managers go

to
> > non-OOP programmers and VB6 programmers and anything below their skill > level
> > and say, "IT'S just TOOL and YOU NEED TO LEARN it like anything else". > >
> > ***
> > YET, these very SAME DEVELOPERS are NOT EVEN willing to lift a FINGER

to

> > L.E.A.R.N. a little bit about the "BUSINESS", UI, DESIGN and what

the > > customer wants in the first place.
> > ***
> >
> > Again, in the words of MISTER BILL, ".NET is SLOW GOING"....I

wonder > > WHY!!!!!
> >
> >
> > Ah yes, the GREAT DIVIDE...I guess abstraction will make everything > > better!!!! HA HA HA HA....I can already see the results of

abstraction in
> > the n-Tier..more failed IT projects than successess.
> >
> > It's amazing!!! these System and Application Architects are SOooo
> > ABSTRACTED, it's no wonder why they have NO idea what the customer

wants

> and
> > why their app is soooo slow........but wait, the app is never

delivered

on
> > time anyway.....so we have no idea if it's slow to begin with as they are
> > are still in the "design phase of OOP"
> >
> > *************** *************** *************** ******
> > OH, and by the WAY, COMDEX floor space is now 150,000 sqft.. down from > > 875,000 sqft. in the 1990s. And ATTENDANCE is 50,000...half of what it

> had
> > last year......
> > http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,4149,1381579,00.asp
> > *************** *************** *************** ******
> >
> >
> > Wow, a single HomeDepot or Super Walmart could have more customers... > >
> >
> > Any, REPEAT ANY, MVP, programmer, developer, author, IT person who

says

> that
> > what they are doing is making customers happy is simply in denial

of their
> > failures.
> >
> >
> > Cheers!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>

[nospam]

You know you need to try a LOT harder to discredit me......
To bad your nose is still buried in your n-Tier and OOP books and articles
and "example" code....

I could easily bring up a few points in the past were everyone of you MVP's
and gurus thought I was a complete idiot screeming off the top of my lungs
how the current architecture or feature, or missing feature was stupid, yet
only to be validated years later......

If I were you, I would be very quiet, otherwise you would have to have a
good portion of humble pie.

"Bob Lehmann" <none> wrote in message
news:%2******** ********@tk2msf tngp13.phx.gbl. ..

You must be very proud of him!

Bob Lehmann

"NRGeti" <ng***@optonlin e.net> wrote in message
news:1g******** *************@n ews4.srv.hcvlny .cv.net...

Nah! I am his pop. Anyway it sense to me on this issue.

"Bob Lehmann" <none> wrote in message
news:OG******** ******@TK2MSFTN GP10.phx.gbl...

So, you must be nospam's mom, I guess?

Bob Lehmann

"NRGeti" <ng***@optonlin e.net> wrote in message
news:PW******** **********@news 4.srv.hcvlny.cv .net...
> This is an excellent reply. I agree. Your comments actually apply across the
> board for all kinds of programming. I never could understand how anyone who
> knows how to write code but has no clue to business processes and user > behavior can ever come up with a working, useful system.
>
> I have seen brilliant people who could recite the entire programming
manual
> page for page and write reams of code without ever printing it out to check
> it and yet come up with a piece of cr** that the users hate.
>
>
> >
> > Ok, so now you admit VS.NET sucks really bad as a designer tool. Let

me

> ask
> > you something.
> > How can any company be productive if they have no idea how the users

are

> > going to interact with the program the developer wrote? How can

the > > developer test, performance tune, TRULLY debug, if they haven't the > > slightest idea of how their program will be used?
> >
> > VS.NET needs to have in mind the single word, "PRODUCTIVI TY" , not
> > "developer productivity" or "designer productivity" as what good is

a > > program written by a developer that has to be totally rewritten to how the
> > user is going to use it.
> >
> > THE NUMBER #1 problem and reason for project failures is COMMUNICATION > > between the developer and the client. Developers say, "It wasn't

in the

> > spec! It wasn't in the spec!" Client's say, "but don't you know??

don't

> you
> > know??"
> >
> > Now, what's the solution here? Learn more OOP, UML, n-Tier to be more > > flexible? How about refactoring and some design patterns for even
better
> > design? Let's buy every single Apress and Wrox book you can find and read
> > those. yes!!!......tha t will solve everything..... .
> >
> > NO, THE PROBLEM is that DEVELOPERS are TOO CLUELESS to KNOW what

to > develop
> > in the first place!!!! AND they NEVER ASK in detail what need to be made

> and
> > WHY they are making it!!!!!!!!
> >
> > It's amazing, these DEVELOPERS and MVP and RD's and Program

Managers go

to
> > non-OOP programmers and VB6 programmers and anything below their skill > level
> > and say, "IT'S just TOOL and YOU NEED TO LEARN it like anything else". > >
> > ***
> > YET, these very SAME DEVELOPERS are NOT EVEN willing to lift a FINGER

to

> > L.E.A.R.N. a little bit about the "BUSINESS", UI, DESIGN and what

the > > customer wants in the first place.
> > ***
> >
> > Again, in the words of MISTER BILL, ".NET is SLOW GOING"....I

wonder > > WHY!!!!!
> >
> >
> > Ah yes, the GREAT DIVIDE...I guess abstraction will make everything > > better!!!! HA HA HA HA....I can already see the results of

abstraction in
> > the n-Tier..more failed IT projects than successess.
> >
> > It's amazing!!! these System and Application Architects are SOooo
> > ABSTRACTED, it's no wonder why they have NO idea what the customer

wants

> and
> > why their app is soooo slow........but wait, the app is never

delivered

on
> > time anyway.....so we have no idea if it's slow to begin with as they are
> > are still in the "design phase of OOP"
> >
> > *************** *************** *************** ******
> > OH, and by the WAY, COMDEX floor space is now 150,000 sqft.. down from > > 875,000 sqft. in the 1990s. And ATTENDANCE is 50,000...half of what it

> had
> > last year......
> > http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,4149,1381579,00.asp
> > *************** *************** *************** ******
> >
> >
> > Wow, a single HomeDepot or Super Walmart could have more customers... > >
> >
> > Any, REPEAT ANY, MVP, programmer, developer, author, IT person who

says

> that
> > what they are doing is making customers happy is simply in denial

of their
> > failures.
> >
> >
> > Cheers!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>

[ozbear]

On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 13:38:18 -0600, "nospam" <[e-mail] > wrote:

You know you need to try a LOT harder to discredit me......

<snip>

Actually, no. You do an adequate job of that all by yourself.

Oz