Alternatives to expensive Wise/Installshield/Sagekey?

[brooks]

It seems that the Access 97 ADT and 2000 ODE installers can seriously
mess up a customer's computer.

Sagekey sells a script to prevent this (~$500) which runs on
Wise/Installshield (~$500) for a combined cost of about $1,000.

Are there any less expensive installers which handle Access
problems/conflicts?

Brooks

[Steve Jorgensen]

On 4 Dec 2005 22:59:02 -0800, "br****@rimesrv.net" <br****@rimesrv.net> wrote:

It seems that the Access 97 ADT and 2000 ODE installers can seriously
mess up a customer's computer.

Sagekey sells a script to prevent this (~$500) which runs on
Wise/Installshield (~$500) for a combined cost of about $1,000.

Are there any less expensive installers which handle Access
problems/conflicts?

No - Sagekey is the best. They've been at it since Access 2.0, and they know
what they're doing inside and out. No one else is attempting to do what they
do, FWICT.

[Arno R]

"Steve Jorgensen" <no****@nospam.nospam> schreef in bericht news:hf********************************@4ax.com...

On 4 Dec 2005 22:59:02 -0800, "br****@rimesrv.net" <br****@rimesrv.net> wrote:

It seems that the Access 97 ADT and 2000 ODE installers can seriously
mess up a customer's computer.

Sagekey sells a script to prevent this (~$500) which runs on
Wise/Installshield (~$500) for a combined cost of about $1,000.

Are there any less expensive installers which handle Access
problems/conflicts?

No - Sagekey is the best. They've been at it since Access 2.0, and they know
what they're doing inside and out. No one else is attempting to do what they
do, FWICT.

I agree with Steve.
So if you want/have to deliver runtime-apps that are 'working' it is going to cost you ...
I have also seen that *even* with Sagekey/Wise the *un*install did not work as *I* would want it to work.
Uninstall left an empty directory. Not a big deal but still not perfect.
Could also be that we made a minor mistake with the Wise-script at that time but I recall that we tested this thoroughly.

Nowadays I deliver A2k apps. This runs with A2k, A2k2, A2k3 (and hopefully also with the next version)
So the client needs/has the Access license. (I check the jet40.dll-version)
No hassle, no mucked-up computers, no blame for the developer.
"It worked yesterday, and after you installed ..."

Only 'real' problem with this is that one can not make a A2k.mde with A2k2 or A2k3.
So if you develop in A2k3 (most preferred A2kx-version I understand) than you also need A2k (for making the mde...)

Good luck.
Arno R

[brooks]

I appreciate what you are saying but $1000 for installer software is
outside the budget at present.

From other postings, it seems that some Access developers are using

Inno and sidestepping some of the biggest landmines. My app is not
that large or complicated.

Brooks

[Br]

br****@rimesrv.net wrote:

I appreciate what you are saying but $1000 for installer software is
outside the budget at present.

From other postings, it seems that some Access developers are using

Inno and sidestepping some of the biggest landmines. My app is not
that large or complicated.

Brooks

For basic installs I use an old version of Setup Generator which is free
(the new version isn't). http://www.gentee.com/

For complex stuff I use Installshield Express but I can't seem to get
that to do the most basic of tasks.
ie. install over current version over-writing the MDE. It goes through
the motions but doesn't update the file. Users have to uninstall first
(I can't get IS to do it).

What it does do for me is prompt the user for the location of their data
file and then build a shortcut that passes this value to my MDE as a
parameter. It also builds the shortcut to point to the MDW security file
that is in the same folder. (Every client may have the data in a diff
location).
--
regards,

Bradley

A Christian Response
http://www.pastornet.net.au/response

[carriolan]

Hi
I have had the same problem myself. I went for the SageKey MSI wizard
doing away with the need for Wise. It works very well and the support
is very good.
Regards
Carriolan

On 4 Dec 2005 22:59:02 -0800, "br****@rimesrv.net"
<br****@rimesrv.net> wrote:

It seems that the Access 97 ADT and 2000 ODE installers can seriously
mess up a customer's computer.

Sagekey sells a script to prevent this (~$500) which runs on
Wise/Installshield (~$500) for a combined cost of about $1,000.

Are there any less expensive installers which handle Access
problems/conflicts?

Brooks

[Arno R]

<carriolan@> schreef in bericht news:0r********************************@4ax.com...

Hi
I have had the same problem myself. I went for the SageKey MSI wizard
doing away with the need for Wise. It works very well and the support
is very good.
Regards
Carriolan

Interesting!
I was still thinking one would need
Sagekey script + WISE OR
Sagekey script + InstallShield

Question:
Which Sagekey MSI wizard do you use? What version of Access?
I am reading correctly that you are completely satisfied with the result?

Arno R

[carriolan]

Hi
No this is a separate standalone product called MSI Wizard that
installs without the aid of Wise. I use it for MS Access / VBA
projects. It is quite slick.
Regards
Carriolan
On Tue, 6 Dec 2005 18:58:49 +0100, "Arno R" <ar***********@tiscali.nl>
wrote:

<carriolan@> schreef in bericht news:0r********************************@4ax.com...

Hi
I have had the same problem myself. I went for the SageKey MSI wizard
doing away with the need for Wise. It works very well and the support
is very good.
Regards
Carriolan

Interesting!
I was still thinking one would need
Sagekey script + WISE OR
Sagekey script + InstallShield

Question:
Which Sagekey MSI wizard do you use? What version of Access?
I am reading correctly that you are completely satisfied with the result?

Arno R

[John Mishefske]

Br@dley wrote:

br****@rimesrv.net wrote:

I appreciate what you are saying but $1000 for installer software is
outside the budget at present.

From other postings, it seems that some Access developers are using

Inno and sidestepping some of the biggest landmines. My app is not
that large or complicated.

Brooks

For basic installs I use an old version of Setup Generator which is free
(the new version isn't). http://www.gentee.com/

For complex stuff I use Installshield Express but I can't seem to get
that to do the most basic of tasks.
ie. install over current version over-writing the MDE. It goes through
the motions but doesn't update the file. Users have to uninstall first
(I can't get IS to do it).

What it does do for me is prompt the user for the location of their data
file and then build a shortcut that passes this value to my MDE as a
parameter. It also builds the shortcut to point to the MDW security file
that is in the same folder. (Every client may have the data in a diff
location).

Everyone has their favorite.... I prefer NSIS - open source installer.

--
'---------------
'John Mishefske
'---------------

[david epsom dot com dot au]

>I was still thinking one would need

It's all built into the operating system now: you
no longer need to install an engine to parse your
install script.

All you need is to pack your files and script into
a package, and let Windows Installer take it from
there.

We still use InstallShield, but our clients are
end users not IT Support personnel, and they still
feel comfortable if we send them a single file
called "Setup.exe". An installation package would
worry them.

(david)
"Arno R" <ar***********@tiscali.nl> wrote in message
news:43**********************@text.nova.planet.nl. ..

<carriolan@> schreef in bericht
news:0r********************************@4ax.com...

Hi
I have had the same problem myself. I went for the SageKey MSI wizard
doing away with the need for Wise. It works very well and the support
is very good.
Regards
Carriolan

Interesting!
I was still thinking one would need
Sagekey script + WISE OR
Sagekey script + InstallShield

Question:
Which Sagekey MSI wizard do you use? What version of Access?
I am reading correctly that you are completely satisfied with the result?

Arno R

[Larry Linson]

You ain't, as they say, seen nothin' yet. In a mail-list e-mail today, I saw
a reference to an install packager to avoid classic VB "DLL Hell". Interest
waned when one participant went beyond the technical specs and saw that it
cost US$5,000 plus a per-seat charge for each user who installed the package
so prepared. <PRICEEEEE!>

<br****@rimesrv.net> wrote in message
news:11*********************@g14g2000cwa.googlegro ups.com...

It seems that the Access 97 ADT and 2000 ODE installers can seriously
mess up a customer's computer.

Sagekey sells a script to prevent this (~$500) which runs on
Wise/Installshield (~$500) for a combined cost of about $1,000.

Are there any less expensive installers which handle Access
problems/conflicts?

Brooks

[David W. Fenton]

"br****@rimesrv.net" <br****@rimesrv.net> wrote in
news:11*********************@g14g2000cwa.googlegro ups.com:

It seems that the Access 97 ADT and 2000 ODE installers can
seriously mess up a customer's computer.

Sagekey sells a script to prevent this (~$500) which runs on
Wise/Installshield (~$500) for a combined cost of about $1,000.

Are there any less expensive installers which handle Access
problems/conflicts?

I don't know how well it handles Access issues, but there's Inno
Setup, which is free.

Michael Kaplan used to offer to tweak standard Acme installer
scripts to make them work without stepping on installed Access
versions, but he doesn't do that any more.

But it seems to me that anyone who understood the way the install
scripts work should be able to figure it out for themselves.

--
David W. Fenton http://www.bway.net/~dfenton
dfenton at bway dot net http://www.bway.net/~dfassoc

[Larry Linson]

"David W. Fenton" <dX********@bway.net.invalid> wrote

Michael Kaplan used to offer to tweak standard Acme installer
scripts to make them work without stepping on installed Access
versions, but he doesn't do that any more.

Do recent versions of Access Developer Extensions still use the Acme
installer?

Larry

[David W. Fenton]

"Larry Linson" <bo*****@localhost.not> wrote in
news:9GEmf.26597$Y7.15598@trnddc02:

"David W. Fenton" <dX********@bway.net.invalid> wrote

Michael Kaplan used to offer to tweak standard Acme installer
scripts to make them work without stepping on installed Access
versions, but he doesn't do that any more.

Do recent versions of Access Developer Extensions still use the
Acme installer?

No, they don't. Since Office 2K, it uses the Windows Installer, if
my understanding is correct.

But I doubt the principle is much different, since both are run by
scripts.

--
David W. Fenton http://www.bway.net/~dfenton
dfenton at bway dot net http://www.bway.net/~dfassoc

[carriolan]

David
SageKey has two products both sell for $480: one which requires Wise
and the other is standalone. The standalone version is not as
comprehensive as the SageKey/Wise method, but deals with the bulk of
users needs. I use it and am pleased with it.
--
Carriolan
On Thu, 08 Dec 2005 19:11:14 -0600, "David W. Fenton"
<dX********@bway.net.invalid> wrote:

"br****@rimesrv.net" <br****@rimesrv.net> wrote in
news:11*********************@g14g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com:

It seems that the Access 97 ADT and 2000 ODE installers can
seriously mess up a customer's computer.

Sagekey sells a script to prevent this (~$500) which runs on
Wise/Installshield (~$500) for a combined cost of about $1,000.

Are there any less expensive installers which handle Access
problems/conflicts?

I don't know how well it handles Access issues, but there's Inno
Setup, which is free.

Michael Kaplan used to offer to tweak standard Acme installer
scripts to make them work without stepping on installed Access
versions, but he doesn't do that any more.

But it seems to me that anyone who understood the way the install
scripts work should be able to figure it out for themselves.

[Lauren Wilson]

On Sun, 04 Dec 2005 23:39:13 -0800, Steve Jorgensen
<no****@nospam.nospam> wrote:

On 4 Dec 2005 22:59:02 -0800, "br****@rimesrv.net" <br****@rimesrv.net> wrote:

It seems that the Access 97 ADT and 2000 ODE installers can seriously
mess up a customer's computer.

Sagekey sells a script to prevent this (~$500) which runs on
Wise/Installshield (~$500) for a combined cost of about $1,000.

Are there any less expensive installers which handle Access
problems/conflicts?

No - Sagekey is the best. They've been at it since Access 2.0, and they know
what they're doing inside and out. No one else is attempting to do what they
do, FWICT.

Indeed. I got this combo about six months ago. It is simply the best
and as far as I know, the ONLY one that specifically installs Access
RT AND your App in a way that makes it almost "stand alone" and
isolated from most other issues like missing shared DLLs etc.
It's worth every penny and then some. Get it and take advantage of
Sage's unlimited 90 days of support. They are really sharp folks.

[david epsom dot com dot au]

> Michael Kaplan used to offer to tweak standard Acme installer

(I think that) If you change the Office setup package,
you break the link to the Office Update system, so you
are then responsible for making sure that your clients
get appropriate Office Updates. AFAIK, for this reason
MS does not recommend changing/updating/slipstreaming
the Access Runtime installation package.

(david)

"David W. Fenton" <dX********@bway.net.invalid> wrote in message
news:Xn**********************************@216.196. 97.142...

"br****@rimesrv.net" <br****@rimesrv.net> wrote in
news:11*********************@g14g2000cwa.googlegro ups.com:

It seems that the Access 97 ADT and 2000 ODE installers can
seriously mess up a customer's computer.

Sagekey sells a script to prevent this (~$500) which runs on
Wise/Installshield (~$500) for a combined cost of about $1,000.

Are there any less expensive installers which handle Access
problems/conflicts?

I don't know how well it handles Access issues, but there's Inno
Setup, which is free.

Michael Kaplan used to offer to tweak standard Acme installer
scripts to make them work without stepping on installed Access
versions, but he doesn't do that any more.

But it seems to me that anyone who understood the way the install
scripts work should be able to figure it out for themselves.

--
David W. Fenton http://www.bway.net/~dfenton
dfenton at bway dot net http://www.bway.net/~dfassoc