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Wouldnit be nice if the new version of Access.....

P: n/a
Could develop web pages that would interact with the access/jet database
- like DAP but without the security flaw???

One of Access' competitors (Filemaker Pro as I recall) touts its EASY
way to build web forms using its product. Sounds like they are trying
to beat Access in a new venue - the web.

Bob Alston
bobalston9 AT yahoo DOT com
Nov 13 '05 #1
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24 Replies


P: n/a
On Tue, 11 Oct 2005 08:41:05 -0500, Bob Alston <tu****************@cox.net>
wrote:
Could develop web pages that would interact with the access/jet database
- like DAP but without the security flaw???

One of Access' competitors (Filemaker Pro as I recall) touts its EASY
way to build web forms using its product. Sounds like they are trying
to beat Access in a new venue - the web.

Bob Alston
bobalston9 AT yahoo DOT com


MS can't do that in any direct way. It would compete with their Web
application development tools.
Nov 13 '05 #2

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Bob Alston wrote:
- like DAP but without the security flaw???


What security flaw?

Nov 13 '05 #3

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lylefair wrote:
Bob Alston wrote:

- like DAP but without the security flaw???

What security flaw?

Look at some recent posts.

Bob
Nov 13 '05 #4

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"Bob Alston" <tu****************@cox.net> wrote in message
news:zhP2f.15150$fE5.5986@fed1read06...
Could develop web pages that would interact with the access/jet database -
like DAP but without the security flaw???


Security isn't the problem with DAP it's the fact that the client needs
Office/Access installed to make them work. If they worked on web pages as
they stood they would be extremely useful - as it is they're relegated to
inter-office use only.

---
Sam
Nov 13 '05 #5

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I've followed recent posts. You've posted a lot about DAPs and your
posts have shown that you know almost nothing about them, databases, or
programming in general.

If there is a Security Flaw, state cearly what it is.

Nov 13 '05 #6

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lylefair wrote:
I've followed recent posts. You've posted a lot about DAPs and your
posts have shown that you know almost nothing about them, databases, or
programming in general.

If there is a Security Flaw, state cearly what it is.

Thanks for the kind words. I have previously posted about the security
flaw, if you would bother looking.

Bob
Nov 13 '05 #7

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I bothered. I found zip.
*****
Searched in comp.databases.ms-access

Sorted by relevance Sort by date
3 results for security flaw dap

Wouldnit be nice if the new version of Access.....
- like DAP but without the security flaw??? What security
flaw? Look at some recent posts. Bob
Oct 11, 12:35 pm by Bob Alston - 7 messages - 4 authors

Access Security
.... value, replica error and problem fixing, and the *TSI Form/Report
to DAP Wizard*,
at ... spake thus: FWIW, the way you have described has a pretty bad
flaw in it. ...
Oct 31 1999, 4:04 pm by Pete B - 9 messages - 6 authors

MVP suport is this the end of it or can we do something about ...
.... and problem fixing, and the TSI Form/Report to DAP Wizard, at ...
by posting the code
that proved the CopyObject flaw left a hole in Access 2 security big
enough ...
Oct 22 1999, 6:29 am by Michael (michka) Kaplan - 25 messages - 10
authors

In order to show you the most relevant results, we have omitted some
entries very similar to the 3 already displayed. If you like, you can
repeat the search with the omitted results included.
*****
What security flaw?

Nov 13 '05 #8

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lylefair wrote:
I've followed recent posts. You've posted a lot about DAPs and your
posts have shown that you know almost nothing about them, databases, or
programming in general.

If there is a Security Flaw, state cearly what it is.

Below are a few links referencing the issue with RDS.

http://groups.google.com/group/micro...s&rnum=9&hl=en

http://groups.google.com/group/micro...&rnum=25&hl=en

http://groups.google.com/group/micro...s&rnum=9&hl=en

http://www.carlprothman.net/Default.aspx?tabid=102

Bob

Nov 13 '05 #9

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I read these. I found SFA about a security flaw.
I did find that the people involved in the threads, except for Sylvain,
knew zip about DAPs. They, (and you) continue on with this nonsense
about DAPs running on web hosts. They do not run on web hosts; they run
on the client machine.
They continue on about connecting to an MDB on a web server. An mdb is
a FILE. It is not a SERVER. There is no way to connect to an MDB as one
would a server.
RDS is a component that "runs" on the server. It gets data from and
saves data to the MDB through (COM?) objects. A DAP can use an RDS
object to interact with this. But the DAP is is not running on the
server. The RDS is running on the server, and must be installed there.

There is no more a security flaw in DAPs than there is in Access;
exactly the same information is exposed. Your spewing out this
misinformation is unlikely to help beginners who read this group and
who may not understand your limitations.

Nov 13 '05 #10

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Bob Alston <tu****************@cox.net> wrote in
news:ByT2f.15172$fE5.10362@fed1read06:
lylefair wrote:
I've followed recent posts. You've posted a lot about DAPs and
your posts have shown that you know almost nothing about them,
databases, or programming in general.

If there is a Security Flaw, state cearly what it is.
Below are a few links referencing the issue with RDS.

http://groups.google.com/group/micro...s.dataaccess.p
ages/browse_thread/thread/e05a0cc9c3b8105c/5d5de6c5c59fa498?q=rds&r
num=9&hl=en

http://groups.google.com/group/micro...s.dataaccess.p
ages/browse_thread/thread/485fe41aba913404/b8620ef1a9afb8ba?q=rds&r
num=25&hl=en

http://groups.google.com/group/micro...s.dataaccess.p
ages/browse_thread/thread/e05a0cc9c3b8105c/5d5de6c5c59fa498?q=rds&r
num=9&hl=en


Tjhis is a duplicate of the first thread.
http://www.carlprothman.net/Default.aspx?tabid=102


Lyle has clearly stated *in this thread* that his DAPs connect to
SQL Server, not to Jet back ends, so RDS is simply not involved.

So, in this context, you are wrong that there's an RDS security
vulnerability with DAPs that use SQL Server as the back end.

--
David W. Fenton http://www.bway.net/~dfenton
dfenton at bway dot net http://www.bway.net/~dfassoc
Nov 13 '05 #11

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"lylefair" <ly***********@aim.com> wrote in
news:11**********************@f14g2000cwb.googlegr oups.com:
There is no more a security flaw in DAPs than there is in Access;
exactly the same information is exposed. Your spewing out this
misinformation is unlikely to help beginners who read this group
and who may not understand your limitations.


Well, he does have an important point for those who want to use DAPs
to serve data from a Jet MDB file -- the server where the Jet data
MDB is stored has to have RDS running, and that's not likely to
happen at many public ISPs.

--
David W. Fenton http://www.bway.net/~dfenton
dfenton at bway dot net http://www.bway.net/~dfassoc
Nov 13 '05 #12

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I agree with you. (maybe none?)
IMO using DAPs with MDBs will be appropriate in very few cases. To use
a DAP one must have MS Office Web Components installed. If one has
these installed it's quite likely that one has Access installed. Access
can use any MDB that a DAP can use (excepting perhaps???? through RDS).
Who would use a DAP when he/she could use an Access form? I think I
would not, especially as I generally create an Access form and export
or save it as a DAP in the creation process. So why go another step to
get something that's not as good?

Nov 13 '05 #13

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lylefair wrote:
I agree with you. (maybe none?)
IMO using DAPs with MDBs will be appropriate in very few cases. To use
a DAP one must have MS Office Web Components installed. If one has
these installed it's quite likely that one has Access installed. Access
can use any MDB that a DAP can use (excepting perhaps???? through RDS).
Who would use a DAP when he/she could use an Access form? I think I
would not, especially as I generally create an Access form and export
or save it as a DAP in the creation process. So why go another step to
get something that's not as good?

Gee, does this mean that you no longer think that "your posts have shown
that you know almost nothing about them {Data Access Pages}, databases,
or programming in general"???????

Bob
Nov 13 '05 #14

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David W. Fenton wrote:
Bob Alston <tu****************@cox.net> wrote in
news:ByT2f.15172$fE5.10362@fed1read06:

lylefair wrote:
I've followed recent posts. You've posted a lot about DAPs and
your posts have shown that you know almost nothing about them,
databases, or programming in general.

If there is a Security Flaw, state cearly what it is.


Below are a few links referencing the issue with RDS.

http://groups.google.com/group/micro...s.dataaccess.p
ages/browse_thread/thread/e05a0cc9c3b8105c/5d5de6c5c59fa498?q=rds&r
num=9&hl=en

http://groups.google.com/group/micro...s.dataaccess.p
ages/browse_thread/thread/485fe41aba913404/b8620ef1a9afb8ba?q=rds&r
num=25&hl=en

http://groups.google.com/group/micro...s.dataaccess.p
ages/browse_thread/thread/e05a0cc9c3b8105c/5d5de6c5c59fa498?q=rds&r
num=9&hl=en

Tjhis is a duplicate of the first thread.

http://www.carlprothman.net/Default.aspx?tabid=102

Lyle has clearly stated *in this thread* that his DAPs connect to
SQL Server, not to Jet back ends, so RDS is simply not involved.

So, in this context, you are wrong that there's an RDS security
vulnerability with DAPs that use SQL Server as the back end.

Actually, as I recall, Lyle responded to my new post/start of a new
thread entitled "Wouldn't it be nice if the new version of Access..."
It was I who retitled the discussion to "RDS Security issues", to better
focus on the real issue I was mentioning.

Again, as you have clarified for me before, like it is not use of Access
in a web application that uses a database in a MDB file, rather it is
Jet, it is not DAP that in of themselves have a security flaw, rather it
is the RDS capabilities which are required to use DAP with JET databases
which are flawed. I again stand corrected of erring in syntax.

I don't mind people correcting me if I am wrong, but to go out on the
attack just because you don't agree with someone is going far beyond
correcting their misstatement.

Bob
Nov 13 '05 #15

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No.

Nov 13 '05 #16

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I just had a read of the responses to this post. It is clear that there
are individuals who do utilise DAP in limited scenarios and they utilise
it successfully. It is also clear that DAP is not a tool that can be
generally applied to public use on the Internet (account management, non
IE browsers, no Office web components installed, non use of .MDB data,
need for SSL, etc....) and even the DAP fans admit to that.

It's just that people get upset when they are told that what they are
using successfully is wrong.

File Maker Pro is a monolith. They can do what they want with the
product. Access is a tightly woven set of modules which use common
technology - VBA, SQL, JET, ODBC live connections. File Maker Pro is a
"one product" team (again, don't flame me). Access is a program within
the Microsoft Office Suite and is in the shadow of big iron teams like
SQL Server, Visual Studio and a plethora of vertical apps.

File Maker Pro, the last time I saw it, has a one click (well, several
clicks) solution that runs a web server on your workstation, thereby
running dynamic web forms and reports. Your workstation has to be
constantly "on" and accessible to your web visitors and take the
workload. With this in mind, FM also make a much higher cost, monolithic
piece of sofware - AFAIK - FM Server - so that you can then host it on
another machine.

AFAIK, FM Pro doesn't however, handle the app design or progamming
complexity that is Access.

They're two different animals.

HTH
Ananda
Bob Alston wrote:
Could develop web pages that would interact with the access/jet database
- like DAP but without the security flaw???

One of Access' competitors (Filemaker Pro as I recall) touts its EASY
way to build web forms using its product. Sounds like they are trying
to beat Access in a new venue - the web.

Bob Alston
bobalston9 AT yahoo DOT com

Nov 13 '05 #17

P: n/a

Ananda Sim wrote:
I just had a read of the responses to this post. It is clear that there
are individuals who do utilise DAP in limited scenarios and they utilise
it successfully. It is also clear that DAP is not a tool that can be
generally applied to public use on the Internet (account management, non
IE browsers, no Office web components installed, non use of .MDB data,
need for SSL, etc....) and even the DAP fans admit to that.


I didn't see any DAP fans. Which posters are the DAP fans?

I am a fan of persons not spewing out misinformation in this newsgroup.
DAPS do not have a security flaw, to any degree greater than any
technology, such as Access, which connects to a server, has a security
flaw.

RDS may or may not have a security flaw. I don't know and as RDS is
deprecated and passed out of normal usage, I don't care. But a security
flaw in RDS, exposed while using DAPs with RDS, is not a reason for
saying DAPs have a security flaw.
Of course, the DAP is not a tool that can be generally applied to
public use on the Internet. Ford Freestars and Madonna's bras are also
tools that cannot be generally applied to the Internet. That is because
they, none of the three, have any substantive relationship with or
involvement with the Internet whatever.

Nov 13 '05 #18

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lylefair wrote:
I didn't see any DAP fans. Which posters are the DAP fans?
Lighten up Dude!
Of course, the DAP is not a tool that can be generally applied to
public use on the Internet. Ford Freestars and Madonna's bras are also
tools that cannot be generally applied to the Internet. That is because
they, none of the three, have any substantive relationship with or
involvement with the Internet whatever.


Context is everything. Unless this NG is a closed club for Access
diehards and gurus (is it?) there are a lot of people who read and don't
grasp the context until they have been pummelled.

DAP is HTML with client side components. It runs in a web browser. There
are innumerable misunderstandings of what it can be used for. Thanks for
formally noting that they are not for public internet use.

Have a great day!

Ananda
Nov 13 '05 #19

P: n/a
Bob Alston <tu****************@cox.net> wrote in
news:2SW2f.15187$fE5.2483@fed1read06:
I don't mind people correcting me if I am wrong, but to go out on
the attack just because you don't agree with someone is going far
beyond correcting their misstatement.


I'm not disagreeing with you. Lyle is. He says there's not security
flaw in RDS.

And you're both talking past each other because he uses DAPs with
SQL Server back ends, and you're talking about DAPs with Jet back
ends. RDS is simply not involved when the back end is SQL Server.

--
David W. Fenton http://www.bway.net/~dfenton
dfenton at bway dot net http://www.bway.net/~dfassoc
Nov 13 '05 #20

P: n/a
David W. Fenton wrote:
Bob Alston <tu****************@cox.net> wrote in
news:2SW2f.15187$fE5.2483@fed1read06:

I don't mind people correcting me if I am wrong, but to go out on
the attack just because you don't agree with someone is going far
beyond correcting their misstatement.

I'm not disagreeing with you. Lyle is. He says there's not security
flaw in RDS.

And you're both talking past each other because he uses DAPs with
SQL Server back ends, and you're talking about DAPs with Jet back
ends. RDS is simply not involved when the back end is SQL Server.

AGree, my comment was one directed at him, not you.

Bob
Nov 13 '05 #21

P: n/a
"Ananda Sim" wrote
Lighten up Dude!
Of course, the DAP is not a tool that can be
generally applied to public use on the Internet.
Ford Freestars and Madonna's bras are also
tools that cannot be generally applied to the
Internet. That is because they, none of the three,
have any substantive relationship with or
involvement with the Internet whatever.


<CHUCKLE!> Ananda, didn't the very next (dryly, wryly humorous) paragraph
let you know that Lyle was already "lightened up"?
Nov 13 '05 #22

P: n/a
Hi Larry,

Hmm. Missed that interpretation of Lyle's humour - I have been away from
this NG for 5 years (or thereabouts) and haven't re-acquainted myself
with everyone's nuances. I can see the old gang is generally still
around and having a lot of "fun" <grin>

And I see more MVPs than I remember in 2000?

Regards to all,

Ananda

Larry Linson wrote:
"Ananda Sim" wrote
> Lighten up Dude!
>
>> Of course, the DAP is not a tool that can be
>> generally applied to public use on the Internet.
>> Ford Freestars and Madonna's bras are also
>> tools that cannot be generally applied to the
>> Internet. That is because they, none of the three,
>> have any substantive relationship with or
>> involvement with the Internet whatever.


<CHUCKLE!> Ananda, didn't the very next (dryly, wryly humorous) paragraph
let you know that Lyle was already "lightened up"?

Nov 13 '05 #23

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"Ananda Sim" <An*******@gmail.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:43***********************@news.optusnet.com.a u...
I can see the old gang is generally still around
That's Problem #2.

And I see more MVPs than I remember in 2000?

That's problem #1.
Nov 13 '05 #24

P: n/a
"XMVP" wrote
That's problem #1.


And, DonP has lost all credibility in the newsgroup, so has taken to posting
using this and other aliases. That's _his_ problem #1.
Nov 13 '05 #25

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