Advice needed: Should we upgrade MS Access 2000? And if so to what?

[ship]

Hi

We need some advice: We are thinking of upgrading our Access database
from Access 2000 to Access 2004.

How stable is MS Office 2003? (particularly Access 2003).

We are just a small company and this is a big decision for us(!) It's
not just the money it's committing to an new version of Access!

We have been runnning MS Access 2000 (from MS Office 2000) for the last
4 years. We are thinking of upgrading to MS Office 2003 (or possibly
Office 2002 ??).

Is there much diffence between the three MS Access versions 2000, 2002,
2003 - and if so what?!

We now have a huge volume of data (c.80MB +160MB of data) on our
customer behaviour, customer transactions etc etc on MS Access 2000. We
use it to do mail shots and all sorts.
That said we arent very advanced programmers - very much self taught.
So we probably arent using the more advanced features of Access.

But we our business is UTTERLY dependant on Access!

We find Access 2000 somewhat slow and clunky. And it has a habit of
crashing now and again. Our PCs are all running WindowsXP but are also
rather old (about 3.5 years old)...

So it's probably time we upgraded the software be we remain nervous...

- How hard is it to install the upgrade to MS Office 2003?

- We have been offered a 10 user license, but it's an OEM upgrad
version. Is this likely to be a problem.

- Is 2003 Access better than 2000 in any *significant* ways?
(e.g. faster? better functionality? more reliable? less bloated?)

- Or would we be better off just using Access 2002 not 2003?!

* * * * *

Finally any top tips on a cheap, honest, reliable place to buy the
software from?

All advice gratefully received...
Ship
Shiperton Henethe

[Alex White MCDBA MCSE]

Can I have a copy of Access 2004?, only joking, no such thing. Access 2003
is the latest version. Well Office 2003 is the most stable version yet of
the whole office suite. A lot of people say that Access 2002 and Access 2003
are more stable than Access 2000. The size of the data you are talking about
is medium size well within was access can cope with, how many users are you
running?

Your Access 2000 databases will run unconverted within Access 2003, the
newer versions of office are much more feature rich than Access 2000. To run
Office (any version 2000,2002,2003) you should have a minimum 256MB ram on
your workstations it does make a difference. If it all fails you can install
Access 2000 with Office 2003 but you will loose out on some of the
integrated features.

If you have been offered an OEM licence for Office they are almost certainly
not legit, as OEM should be provided with NEW hardware, also OEM has no
upgrade path at all. If you are trying to reduce costs then think about
this, Buy one full copy of Office 2003 Pro, Buy all the other copies as
Office 2003 standard, buy the Access Developer Extensions, this allows you
to run the runtime version of Access on the other computers, you would not
be able to do any modifications of forms etc from the other computers but
you would be able to run the database and enter/update/delete records and
run forms etc.

Hope it helps.
--
Regards

Alex White MCDBA MCSE
http://www.intralan.co.uk

"ship" <sh*****@yahoo. com> wrote in message
news:11******** **************@ g49g2000cwa.goo glegroups.com.. .

Hi

We need some advice: We are thinking of upgrading our Access database
from Access 2000 to Access 2004.

How stable is MS Office 2003? (particularly Access 2003).

We are just a small company and this is a big decision for us(!) It's
not just the money it's committing to an new version of Access!

We have been runnning MS Access 2000 (from MS Office 2000) for the last
4 years. We are thinking of upgrading to MS Office 2003 (or possibly
Office 2002 ??).

Is there much diffence between the three MS Access versions 2000, 2002,
2003 - and if so what?!

We now have a huge volume of data (c.80MB +160MB of data) on our
customer behaviour, customer transactions etc etc on MS Access 2000. We
use it to do mail shots and all sorts.
That said we arent very advanced programmers - very much self taught.
So we probably arent using the more advanced features of Access.

But we our business is UTTERLY dependant on Access!

We find Access 2000 somewhat slow and clunky. And it has a habit of
crashing now and again. Our PCs are all running WindowsXP but are also
rather old (about 3.5 years old)...

So it's probably time we upgraded the software be we remain nervous...

- How hard is it to install the upgrade to MS Office 2003?

- We have been offered a 10 user license, but it's an OEM upgrad
version. Is this likely to be a problem.

- Is 2003 Access better than 2000 in any *significant* ways?
(e.g. faster? better functionality? more reliable? less bloated?)

- Or would we be better off just using Access 2002 not 2003?!

* * * * *

Finally any top tips on a cheap, honest, reliable place to buy the
software from?

All advice gratefully received...
Ship
Shiperton Henethe

[Ian Davies]

Hello

In answer to some of your questions

Is there much diffence between the three MS Access versions 2000, 2002,
2003 - and if so what?!
From what Ive see the differences are cosmetic. If you are not using all the
features of Access 2000 you are not likely to use those of the hight
versions
We now have a huge volume of data (c.80MB +160MB of data) on our
customer behaviour, customer transactions etc etc on MS Access 2000. We
use it to do mail shots and all sorts.
160mb is not a huge amount of data by todays standards. Infact it is tiny.
Access 2000 will have no problem with this.

We find Access 2000 somewhat slow and clunky. And it has a habit of
crashing now and again. Our PCs are all running WindowsXP but are also
rather old (about 3.5 years old)...
I think the clunkiness of your Access Applications may be more to do with
the the age of your computers. You dont say what processors they have or how
much memory etc. 3.5 yrs old is getting on a bit in computer time. Also you
say you are self taught and dont have much programming experience. I'm also
self taught and Im finding that much of my earlier code is inefficient.
Perhaps this may be a factor too.

So it's probably time we upgraded the software be we remain nervous...
- How hard is it to install the upgrade to MS Office 2003?
It installs very simply over any earlier version replacing all the old
fiiles with the new ones
- We have been offered a 10 user license, but it's an OEM upgrad
version. Is this likely to be a problem.
I personally don't like to use a middle man for software. They tend not to
be around when you need them. I don't think microsoft are going to disappear
of the face of the earth soon.
- Is 2003 Access better than 2000 in any *significant* ways?
(e.g. faster? better functionality? more reliable? less bloated?)
It may possibly be slower on your computers if Access 2k is. Afterall I dont
think microsoft simplifies its software as it develops new versions.
- Or would we be better off just using Access 2002 not 2003?!

* * * * *

Finally any top tips on a cheap, honest, reliable place to buy the
software from?
I purchase most of my hardware online but have not done so for software
although it is significantly cheaper, and would be the best option if buget
is a major factor. Use an established firm.
In summary
Check your hardware spec first. Maybe try your Applications on a borrowed
more upto date PC/Server to see if it is less clunky and crashes less.
See if there is anyway you can improve your code
If Access 2K does what you want it to do stick with it. I don't see the
point in upgrading unless you intend to use the features of the new version.
Microsoft's website can tell you what the new features are. I did'nt notice
anything ground breaking when I recently used it. But then again I didnt
give it a good run.

Ian
All advice gratefully received...
Ship
Shiperton Henethe

[Chuck Grimsby]

If you haven't already, read Alex's message. It's dead on target!

Only one (sniggly) point. Access 97 was (is) the most stable version.

Upgrading to Access 2003 will reduce how often you databases crash,
depending upon your _network_. It's usually the network more then
anything else that causes Access to crash. Assuming you're running
your databases over a network, that is! (D'oh!)

The upgrade is a snore for any network administrator, and only slightly
more exciting for a user. (Mostly due to excitment or fear then
anything else.) Once the upgrade is in place however, even the most
scared user wonders why they felt that way. (Cudos to the Access
Development Team for that!!!!!)

[Larry Linson]

"ship" <sh*****@yahoo. com> wrote

We need some advice: We are thinking
of upgrading our Access database
from Access 2000 to Access 2004.

You've had some good advice on whether or not to upgrade.

Access 2000, provided you have applied _all_ released Service Packs (3, if I
recall correctly) and other patches, has reached a state of reasonably good
stability.

I would NOT _suggest_ distributing your applications with the runtime
support -- there are enough unobvious restrictions (a common statement is,
"Whoever would have thought _that_ was a design view feature?") and, of
course, your users would not have Access to use for their own purposes. It
can be done successfully, but IMNSHO, should only be done by experienced and
skilled developers -- if the users don't have any other use for Access.

If your users have full Access now, you'd be well advised to search out the
..MDB and .MDE files, just for the record. Remote searches in many companies
turned up a very surprising number of Access databases created by individual
users, some temporary and transitory, but others with data that needed to be
captured as a corporate asset.

There were a few real changes between Access 2000 and 2002 (obviously
nothing you couldn't live without) but very, very little change between
Access 2002 and Access 2003. Still, the changes in both cases were so minor
that, by default, they create databases in Access 2000 file format, so that
any new features just don't work. It's an easy option to change them to
2002/2003 file format if you don't have any users still using the older
version.

One other consideration: Access 2000 is now "out of support" at Microsoft,
so tech support is not required to answer questions about it. In practice,
this is not quite as drastic a problem as it may sound -- to determine how
it will affect you, consider how many times you have had to make support
calls to Microsoft about Access 2000 in the last <whatever period you decide
is pertinent>.

The current version of Access, and thus the one that will continue to be
supported for the longest time, is Access 2003. Its Help assumes primary
Help is online, so you will want your users to have (preferrably high-speed)
Internet access when using it; Access 2002's Help assumes local help
information is primary. Otherwise, there is almost no difference.

Because it is not current, you may be able to get a better deal on Office XP
Pro if you search various sources, including the online auction sites -- if
you are willing to "trade" a shorter official support period for a better
price.

Larry Linson
Microsoft Access MVP

[David W. Fenton]

"ship" <sh*****@yahoo. com> wrote in
news:11******** **************@ g49g2000cwa.goo glegroups.com:

We have been runnning MS Access 2000 (from MS Office 2000) for the
last 4 years. We are thinking of upgrading to MS Office 2003 (or
possibly Office 2002 ??).

What benefit are you expecting to get from updating your version of
Office?

I have plenty of clients running Office97.

I have other clients running Office 2K, 2K2 and 2K3, but using
Access97 with the other Office apps.

I also have clients using A2K and A2K3 (nobody using A2K2, though).

I don't really see much of a difference from an end user's point of
view.

And I haven't programmed in A2K3, so I don't know about the
programmer's point of view directly, but have heard that it's
better.

I would consider upgrading Access and leaving the rest of the Office
suite alone, unless there are features in the new versions of the
other apps that are important. Personally, I've seen very little in
the recent versions of Word or Excel that would justify spending 10
cents upgrading.

If you use Outlook (and you shouldn't), then the new version of that
is improved in terms of security.

But since Office97, there just hasn't been any innovation in the
Office suite as a whole that would justify the upgrade.

On the other hand, if you're getting it preloaded on new PCs, then,
by all means, get the latest version of Office. It's so unchanged
that I've got clients who switch back and forth among Office 97,
Office 2K and 2K3 without blinking an eyelash.

--
David W. Fenton http://www.bway.net/~dfenton
dfenton at bway dot net http://www.bway.net/~dfassoc

[Alex White MCDBA MCSE]

A little more to add,

In nearly all the upgrades that I have done from Access 97 to 2000 (+) have
been sold on Access 97 being unstable e.g. databases crashing etc, the
interesting thing that keeps on coming out of these upgrades is there is
some form of data corruption, of course upgrading did not solve this problem
and the data had to be cleaned, so there is an argument that the upgrade did
not make things anymore stable. When I am asked to advise on what version, I
will always go for 2000 unless there is a compelling reason for going with
either of the other two versions, why would I choose 2000, well it's simple
I have had the pain with 2000, I understand all the bugs (all software has
bugs) that affect me, I know exactly how to structure and 100+ form project
running on 100+ desktops so why change is my view.

I think before upgrading look at your hardware of your PC's, memory is the
number 1 issue, processor number 2. The clunky feel to your database could
be how it is structured, in a multi-user environment, split the database
front-end/back end (I don't know if you already have).

You have no choice but to purchase Office 2003 (Legitimately), but MS has a
downgrade rule, allowing you to run a previous version, (how many versions
back I don't know). I will reinforce my point about OEM, don't buy it you
are not entitled to it (unless you upgrade your machines at the same time,
you need to check with MS on the OEM rules), it is as legitimate as stealing
a copy off the internet.

On the point of how easy is the upgrade, well I never upgrade, I like to
completely get rid of the previous versions first, there is a tool for doing
that job on the MS Office website. I never install off CDROM, copy the CDROM
to a share on the server and install from there a lot less trouble, the
workstation never has the horible message "Now insert your Office CD in the
drive".
--
Regards

Alex White MCDBA MCSE
http://www.intralan.co.uk

"ship" <sh*****@yahoo. com> wrote in message
news:11******** **************@ g49g2000cwa.goo glegroups.com.. .

Hi

We need some advice: We are thinking of upgrading our Access database
from Access 2000 to Access 2004.

How stable is MS Office 2003? (particularly Access 2003).

We are just a small company and this is a big decision for us(!) It's
not just the money it's committing to an new version of Access!

We have been runnning MS Access 2000 (from MS Office 2000) for the last
4 years. We are thinking of upgrading to MS Office 2003 (or possibly
Office 2002 ??).

Is there much diffence between the three MS Access versions 2000, 2002,
2003 - and if so what?!

We now have a huge volume of data (c.80MB +160MB of data) on our
customer behaviour, customer transactions etc etc on MS Access 2000. We
use it to do mail shots and all sorts.
That said we arent very advanced programmers - very much self taught.
So we probably arent using the more advanced features of Access.

But we our business is UTTERLY dependant on Access!

We find Access 2000 somewhat slow and clunky. And it has a habit of
crashing now and again. Our PCs are all running WindowsXP but are also
rather old (about 3.5 years old)...

So it's probably time we upgraded the software be we remain nervous...

- How hard is it to install the upgrade to MS Office 2003?

- We have been offered a 10 user license, but it's an OEM upgrad
version. Is this likely to be a problem.

- Is 2003 Access better than 2000 in any *significant* ways?
(e.g. faster? better functionality? more reliable? less bloated?)

- Or would we be better off just using Access 2002 not 2003?!

* * * * *

Finally any top tips on a cheap, honest, reliable place to buy the
software from?

All advice gratefully received...
Ship
Shiperton Henethe

[David W. Fenton]

"Alex White MCDBA MCSE" <al**@intralan. co.uk> wrote in
news:#R******** ******@TK2MSFTN GP14.phx.gbl:

In nearly all the upgrades that I have done from Access 97 to 2000
(+) have been sold on Access 97 being unstable e.g. databases
crashing etc, the interesting thing that keeps on coming out of
these upgrades is there is some form of data corruption, of course
upgrading did not solve this problem and the data had to be
cleaned, so there is an argument that the upgrade did not make
things anymore stable.

Who is advising an upgrade from Access97 to Access2K to increase
stability? Only someone who is incompetent and has never really used
both versions to any extent would be fool enough to think that A2K
was *more* stable than A97.

The other point: if the upgrade is in response to instability
issues, anything that's causing instability in A97 is going to cause
instability in A2K (or any later version of Access), and it will
probably be worse.

There are perfectly valid reasons for upgrading.

Stability is not one of them, ever.

--
David W. Fenton http://www.bway.net/~dfenton
dfenton at bway dot net http://www.bway.net/~dfassoc

[Alex White MCDBA MCSE]

Hi David,

I totally agree, that is the point I was trying to make, out there in the
field amongst the user base there is the perception that the latest version
is going to be faster/more reliable I know that is not true, in my personal
view what made Access 2000 a 'better' (for want of a better word) was
suddenly the integration into SQL seemed much deeper. I inherit most of my
work from other programmers who seem to have run out of steam, their excuse
for their inability to deliver a working system was to blame the version of
Access. The most important thing to a good running Access database power of
the computers that it runs on, and that they are reliable. The point I was
trying to make is proven by my never advising on Access 2002 or 2003 unless
there is a compelling reason. We all have those jobs where they are
compacting a repair a bit too often, e.g. one a day, last year I had one
such client 1.4GB data, 15 concurrent users, running Access 2000, all I did
in that situation (as they were an SBS client, fully entitled to SQL) was
upsize the back-end to SQL, no one has had to get involved in that system
since. Having used every version of Access my favourites being v2,v97,v2000
it is horses for courses.

So in complete agreement with you,

--
Regards

Alex White MCDBA MCSE
http://www.intralan.co.uk

"David W. Fenton" <dX********@bwa y.net.invalid> wrote in message
news:Xn******** *************** ***********@24. 168.128.86...

"Alex White MCDBA MCSE" <al**@intralan. co.uk> wrote in
news:#R******** ******@TK2MSFTN GP14.phx.gbl:

In nearly all the upgrades that I have done from Access 97 to 2000
(+) have been sold on Access 97 being unstable e.g. databases
crashing etc, the interesting thing that keeps on coming out of
these upgrades is there is some form of data corruption, of course
upgrading did not solve this problem and the data had to be
cleaned, so there is an argument that the upgrade did not make
things anymore stable.

Who is advising an upgrade from Access97 to Access2K to increase
stability? Only someone who is incompetent and has never really used
both versions to any extent would be fool enough to think that A2K
was *more* stable than A97.

The other point: if the upgrade is in response to instability
issues, anything that's causing instability in A97 is going to cause
instability in A2K (or any later version of Access), and it will
probably be worse.

There are perfectly valid reasons for upgrading.

Stability is not one of them, ever.

--
David W. Fenton http://www.bway.net/~dfenton
dfenton at bway dot net http://www.bway.net/~dfassoc

[Larry Linson]

"Alex White MCDBA MCSE" <al**@intralan. co.uk> wrote

Having used every version of Access
my favourites being v2,v97,v2000
it is horses for courses.

Access 2000? It is tolerably stable if all three SPs and subsequent updates
have been applied; but for a long period, it was in a close race with Access
95 for "worst release ever". (A95 _might_ have been OK if they'd put out 3
Service Packs.)

It is hard for me to imagine it being in anyone's "favorites" list.

Larry Linson
Microsoft Access MVP