Maybe I really am a n00b

[ECathell]

Ok I have been programming in vb.net since it was released. I love it and I have a great time seeing my code come to life. Recently I have been seeking to expand my horizons(ie looking for a new job). I see a lot of C# jobs...C# this C# that. So I think to myself, ok ill start learning C#. So I start working on programs that I already have done in vb.net and working on transitioning them to C#.

I have come to the conclusion that intellisense in C# should be called dumbsense.
Property Creation is a pain.
Line terminators (Why are they needed?)
I couldnt get the class dropdowns to work like in vb.net....

Mostly I think C# is for those coders who like to bang their head against the wall....

CoderVB: So how was your day today? I got 3 different controls written and debugged.....
CoderC#: PAH! See this welt on my head? thats from the wall, see my cast on my arm? I got TCS from all the typing
CoderVB: Erm...ok Well what are you coding in?
CoderC#:<puffs out chest> I code in C#....
CoderVB:<to himself>hmm...Broken Head, Broken Wrist.....Nope Ill stick to my "inferior" vb.net.

--
--Eric Cathell, MCSA

[Marina]

All that really means is that MS put a lot more work in writing a good IDE for VB then for C#. It has absolutely nothing to do with the language itself (other then the line terminator complaint).
"ECathell" <ec******@nospam.com> wrote in message news:uU**************@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
Ok I have been programming in vb.net since it was released. I love it and I have a great time seeing my code come to life. Recently I have been seeking to expand my horizons(ie looking for a new job). I see a lot of C# jobs...C# this C# that. So I think to myself, ok ill start learning C#. So I start working on programs that I already have done in vb.net and working on transitioning them to C#.

I have come to the conclusion that intellisense in C# should be called dumbsense.
Property Creation is a pain.
Line terminators (Why are they needed?)
I couldnt get the class dropdowns to work like in vb.net....

Mostly I think C# is for those coders who like to bang their head against the wall....

CoderVB: So how was your day today? I got 3 different controls written and debugged.....
CoderC#: PAH! See this welt on my head? thats from the wall, see my cast on my arm? I got TCS from all the typing
CoderVB: Erm...ok Well what are you coding in?
CoderC#:<puffs out chest> I code in C#....
CoderVB:<to himself>hmm...Broken Head, Broken Wrist.....Nope Ill stick to my "inferior" vb.net.

--
--Eric Cathell, MCSA

[Bradley]

On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 14:07:57 -0400, "Marina" <so*****@nospam.com>
wrote:

All that really means is that MS put a lot more work in writing a good IDE for VB then for C#. It has absolutely nothing to do with the language itself (other then the line terminator complaint).

Its not just the IDE. VB.Net has a background compilation mechanism
which enables better intellisense. C# lacks this feature in VS.Net
2003. I'm not sure about VS.Net 2005.

[Marina]

Isn't that also a feature of the IDE? VB.NET itself is just a syntax for
writing code, it has no compilation mechanisms

Again, not a feature of the language.

"Bradley" <pl****@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:ia********************************@4ax.com...

On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 14:07:57 -0400, "Marina" <so*****@nospam.com>
wrote:

All that really means is that MS put a lot more work in writing a good IDE
for VB then for C#. It has absolutely nothing to do with the language
itself (other then the line terminator complaint).

Its not just the IDE. VB.Net has a background compilation mechanism
which enables better intellisense. C# lacks this feature in VS.Net
2003. I'm not sure about VS.Net 2005.

[m.posseth]

;-) ,,,, i have been there ,,,

i code since theirteen years of age in Basic (started on the C64 ,,, i am
now 31 ) despite of all people calling the VB language inferior, VB with
or without the .Net will always be my main language as i can code 10 to 20
times faster in my native tongue ,,,,

I started with C# as i noticed that a lot of interesting examples or open
projects were only availlable in C# ( sharpziplib, sharpSQL etc etc etc )
curious as i am i started with C# but for me it will always be a extra
language that , i might use in some situations , maybe this could be a good
way for you to ( and it looks nice on your CV if you can add multiple
languages below your expertise in VB )

regards

Happy VB / VB.Net coding

Michel Posseth [MCP]

"ECathell" <ec******@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:uU**************@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
Ok I have been programming in vb.net since it was released. I love it and I
have a great time seeing my code come to life. Recently I have been seeking
to expand my horizons(ie looking for a new job). I see a lot of C# jobs...C#
this C# that. So I think to myself, ok ill start learning C#. So I start
working on programs that I already have done in vb.net and working on
transitioning them to C#.

I have come to the conclusion that intellisense in C# should be called
dumbsense.
Property Creation is a pain.
Line terminators (Why are they needed?)
I couldnt get the class dropdowns to work like in vb.net....

Mostly I think C# is for those coders who like to bang their head against
the wall....

CoderVB: So how was your day today? I got 3 different controls written and
debugged.....
CoderC#: PAH! See this welt on my head? thats from the wall, see my cast on
my arm? I got TCS from all the typing
CoderVB: Erm...ok Well what are you coding in?
CoderC#:<puffs out chest> I code in C#....
CoderVB:<to himself>hmm...Broken Head, Broken Wrist.....Nope Ill stick to my
"inferior" vb.net.

--
--Eric Cathell, MCSA

[ECathell]

you are right, I guess its is more of a tool complaint than a language complaint. Even the property creation issue would be better if the code completion was as good as it is for VB.NET....
--
--Eric Cathell, MCSA
"Marina" <so*****@nospam.com> wrote in message news:eo**************@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
All that really means is that MS put a lot more work in writing a good IDE for VB then for C#. It has absolutely nothing to do with the language itself (other then the line terminator complaint).
"ECathell" <ec******@nospam.com> wrote in message news:uU**************@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
Ok I have been programming in vb.net since it was released. I love it and I have a great time seeing my code come to life. Recently I have been seeking to expand my horizons(ie looking for a new job). I see a lot of C# jobs...C# this C# that. So I think to myself, ok ill start learning C#. So I start working on programs that I already have done in vb.net and working on transitioning them to C#.

I have come to the conclusion that intellisense in C# should be called dumbsense.
Property Creation is a pain.
Line terminators (Why are they needed?)
I couldnt get the class dropdowns to work like in vb.net....

Mostly I think C# is for those coders who like to bang their head against the wall....

CoderVB: So how was your day today? I got 3 different controls written and debugged.....
CoderC#: PAH! See this welt on my head? thats from the wall, see my cast on my arm? I got TCS from all the typing
CoderVB: Erm...ok Well what are you coding in?
CoderC#:<puffs out chest> I code in C#....
CoderVB:<to himself>hmm...Broken Head, Broken Wrist.....Nope Ill stick to my "inferior" vb.net.

--
--Eric Cathell, MCSA

[Marina]

One thing I found, is that if you work exclusively in one language, you learn to get used to its limitations and strengths after a while.

Part of it is just the order of things. For example, in VB you say : Dim obj As Object.
In C# you say : Object obj;

So, VB.NET can pop up a list of classes after you type 'Dim obj As'.
C# can't, since the class name is the first word on the line.

I have my list of complaints about the VB.NET IDE that makes coding a pain sometimes. For example, I can't see the list of event handlers attached to my controls in the designer - only in code in the dropdown. I can't see a list of all the methods I have defined in that dropdown at the top of the code page - they are filtered by the dropdown on the left, by object. Well, I don't care if the method is handler for some object's event or not - I just want to see them all so that I can jump around the code quickly!

So no IDE is perfect. I think some of these issues might be fixed with 2005, but there will always be something to complain about.
"ECathell" <ec******@nospam.com> wrote in message news:eB**************@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
you are right, I guess its is more of a tool complaint than a language complaint. Even the property creation issue would be better if the code completion was as good as it is for VB.NET....
--
--Eric Cathell, MCSA
"Marina" <so*****@nospam.com> wrote in message news:eo**************@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
All that really means is that MS put a lot more work in writing a good IDE for VB then for C#. It has absolutely nothing to do with the language itself (other then the line terminator complaint).
"ECathell" <ec******@nospam.com> wrote in message news:uU**************@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
Ok I have been programming in vb.net since it was released. I love it and I have a great time seeing my code come to life. Recently I have been seeking to expand my horizons(ie looking for a new job). I see a lot of C# jobs...C# this C# that. So I think to myself, ok ill start learning C#. So I start working on programs that I already have done in vb.net and working on transitioning them to C#.

I have come to the conclusion that intellisense in C# should be called dumbsense.
Property Creation is a pain.
Line terminators (Why are they needed?)
I couldnt get the class dropdowns to work like in vb.net....

Mostly I think C# is for those coders who like to bang their head against the wall....

CoderVB: So how was your day today? I got 3 different controls written and debugged.....
CoderC#: PAH! See this welt on my head? thats from the wall, see my cast on my arm? I got TCS from all the typing
CoderVB: Erm...ok Well what are you coding in?
CoderC#:<puffs out chest> I code in C#....
CoderVB:<to himself>hmm...Broken Head, Broken Wrist.....Nope Ill stick to my "inferior" vb.net.

--
--Eric Cathell, MCSA

[Bradley]

On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 14:20:37 -0400, "Marina" <so*****@nospam.com>
wrote:

Isn't that also a feature of the IDE? VB.NET itself is just a syntax for
writing code, it has no compilation mechanisms

Again, not a feature of the language.
I guess it all depends on your angle. Since the VB language has it
and C# language doesn't, one could argue that its a feature of the
language.
Personally I think of a compiler of any sort as an entity that is
completely separate from the IDE.. but admittedly it might not be in
the case of VB.Net.


"Bradley" <pl****@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:ia********************************@4ax.com.. .

On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 14:07:57 -0400, "Marina" <so*****@nospam.com>
wrote:

All that really means is that MS put a lot more work in writing a good IDE
for VB then for C#. It has absolutely nothing to do with the language
itself (other then the line terminator complaint).

Its not just the IDE. VB.Net has a background compilation mechanism
which enables better intellisense. C# lacks this feature in VS.Net
2003. I'm not sure about VS.Net 2005.

[Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]]

"Bradley" <pl****@nospam.com> schrieb:

All that really means is that MS put a lot more work in writing a good IDE
for VB then for C#. It has absolutely nothing to do with the language
itself (other then the line terminator complaint).

Its not just the IDE. VB.Net has a background compilation mechanism
which enables better intellisense. C# lacks this feature in VS.Net
2003. I'm not sure about VS.Net 2005.

C# sadly has far more code-formatting options and better IntelliSense
support than VB in Whidbey. Edit and Continue is supported for both
languages, however, VB's support is better than those of C#. The VB IDE has
some advantages over the C# IDE and vice-versa.

--
M S Herfried K. Wagner
M V P <URL:http://dotnet.mvps.org/>
V B <URL:http://classicvb.org/petition/>

[Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]]

"Marina" <so*****@nospam.com> schrieb:

Part of it is just the order of things. For example, in VB you say : Dim
obj As Object.
In C# you say : Object obj;

So, VB.NET can pop up a list of classes after you type 'Dim obj As'.
C# can't, since the class name is the first word on the line.

Yeah, that's simply caused by the ancient syntax design of C#, which is in
no way optimized for the use with modern IDEs.

--
M S Herfried K. Wagner
M V P <URL:http://dotnet.mvps.org/>
V B <URL:http://classicvb.org/petition/>

[Cor Ligthert [MVP]]

Herfried,

I find the C# way more logical (I sometimes make mistakes in this)..
Moreover VBNet uses
Class MyOwnClass, what I find inconsequent.

I even don't see the need for Dim
"ds as dataset" tells that it is a declaration by the word "as".

However just a quick response not really something that bothers me or
something I have long thought about..

Cor

[Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]]

Cor,

"Cor Ligthert [MVP]" <no************@planet.nl> schrieb:

I find the C# way more logical (I sometimes make mistakes in this)..
Moreover VBNet uses
Class MyOwnClass, what I find inconsequent.
I am not sure what you consider inconsequent here...
I even don't see the need for Dim
"ds as dataset" tells that it is a declaration by the word "as".

'Dim' is a keyword similar to 'Class', 'Function', and 'Sub'. You can
actually write 'Private Dim m_Foo As Integer', for example.

The problem with the C# solution for declaring local variables is that there
is no way for the IDE to determine if the user wants to start a variable
declaration. Note that in C++ local variable declarations can be preceeded
with 'auto', such as 'auto int foo', which would make support for meaningful
and valuable IntelliSense possible. C# does not even support the 'auto'
modifier for local variables.

--
M S Herfried K. Wagner
M V P <URL:http://dotnet.mvps.org/>
V B <URL:http://classicvb.org/petition/>

[Cor Ligthert [MVP]]

>> Class MyOwnClass, what I find inconsequent.

I am not sure what you consider inconsequent here...
Dim ds as dataset
Dataset ds();
Class MyOwnClass
Class MyOwnClass

Makes this it clear?

I even don't see the need for Dim
"ds as dataset" tells that it is a declaration by the word "as".

'Dim' is a keyword similar to 'Class', 'Function', and 'Sub'. You can
actually write 'Private Dim m_Foo As Integer', for example.

As far as I can see it is there something double here, "dim" and "as" the
last tells as that it is a decleration.

In a function, Sub, or Class I cannot recognise it,
(it is the same as I always write about "then").

There can be in my opinion an option not to use it or an option to let
autocomplete automaticly add it.
The problem with the C# solution for declaring local variables is that
there is no way for the IDE to determine if the user wants to start a
variable declaration.

I don't see why that is a problem for *you*
:-))))))))))))

For others I agree with you, that you can see it as a disadvantage.

:-)

Cor

[Terry Olsen]

Back to the OP's OQ :) I've seen a lot of discussion here about the only
difference between C# and VB is the programmers preference in language. And
from what I've seen, It's not difficult to translate C# to VB. So maybe a
good VB programmer could convince those employers that his/her VB skills are
just as relavant for the job as the preferred C# skills. 6 in one,
half-dozen in the other...

[Bradley]

On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 07:08:45 -0600, "Terry Olsen"
<to******@hotmail.com> wrote:

Back to the OP's OQ :) I've seen a lot of discussion here about the only
difference between C# and VB is the programmers preference in language. And
from what I've seen, It's not difficult to translate C# to VB. So maybe a
good VB programmer could convince those employers that his/her VB skills are
just as relavant for the job as the preferred C# skills. 6 in one,
half-dozen in the other...

It takes any reasonable VB.Net programmer about a week to re-acclimate
and become just as productive in C# (and vice versa for C# coders).

Any hiring employer who balks over a week learning curve, or otherwise
refuses to hire a Dot Net developer because their experience is
limited to one language or another, is an idiot doomed for failure and
not worth working for anyway.

[ECathell]

So I shouldn't be intimidated by wanted adds that specifically ask for C#,
because I am capable of doing everything that they can do with VB.NET? I
just need to be able to explain that to them in a way they can grasp....

--
--Eric Cathell, MCSA
"Bradley" <pl****@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:dg********************************@4ax.com...

On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 07:08:45 -0600, "Terry Olsen"
<to******@hotmail.com> wrote:

Back to the OP's OQ :) I've seen a lot of discussion here about the only
difference between C# and VB is the programmers preference in language.
And
from what I've seen, It's not difficult to translate C# to VB. So maybe a
good VB programmer could convince those employers that his/her VB skills
are
just as relavant for the job as the preferred C# skills. 6 in one,
half-dozen in the other...

It takes any reasonable VB.Net programmer about a week to re-acclimate
and become just as productive in C# (and vice versa for C# coders).

Any hiring employer who balks over a week learning curve, or otherwise
refuses to hire a Dot Net developer because their experience is
limited to one language or another, is an idiot doomed for failure and
not worth working for anyway.