By using this site, you agree to our updated Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Manage your Cookies Settings.
435,241 Members | 799 Online
Bytes IT Community
+ Ask a Question
Need help? Post your question and get tips & solutions from a community of 435,241 IT Pros & Developers. It's quick & easy.

When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a "British accent"...

P: n/a
Americans consider having a "British accent" a sign of sophistication
and high intelligence. Many companies hire salespersons from Britain to
represent their products,etc. Question: When the British hear an
"American accent," does it sound unsophisticated and dumb?

Be blunt. We Americans need to know. Should we try to change the way we
speak? Are there certain words that sound particularly goofy? Please
help us with your advice on this awkward matter.

Jul 19 '05 #1
Share this Question
Share on Google+
114 Replies


P: n/a
muldoon <br*******@dslextreme.com> wrote:
|| Americans consider having a "British accent" a sign of
|| sophistication and high intelligence. Many companies hire
|| salespersons from Britain to represent their products,etc.
|| Question: When the British hear an "American accent," does it
|| sound unsophisticated and dumb?
||
|| Be blunt. We Americans need to know. Should we try to change
|| the way we speak? Are there certain words that sound
|| particularly goofy? Please help us with your advice on this
|| awkward matter.

Which of the British accents?

BJ
Jul 19 '05 #2

P: n/a
On 2005-06-28, muldoon <br*******@dslextreme.com> wrote:
Americans consider having a "British accent" a sign of sophistication
and high intelligence.
That depends on the accent. I believe that's probably true for
the educated south of England, BBC, received pronunciation. I
don't think that's true for some of the other dialects from
northern areas (e.g. Liverpool) or the "cockney" accent.
Many companies hire salespersons from Britain to represent
their products,etc. Question: When the British hear an
"American accent," does it sound unsophisticated and dumb?
I too have always wondered about this.
Be blunt. We Americans need to know. Should we try to change
the way we speak? Are there certain words that sound
particularly goofy? Please help us with your advice on this
awkward matter.


--
Grant Edwards grante Yow! Mr and Mrs PED, can
at I borrow 26.7
visi.com
Jul 19 '05 #3

P: n/a
muldoon wrote:
Americans consider having a "British accent" a sign of sophistication
and high intelligence. Many companies hire salespersons from Britain to
represent their products,etc. Question: When the British hear an
"American accent," does it sound unsophisticated and dumb?

Be blunt. We Americans need to know.


To be blunt, I have no idea what this has to do with Python. Surely
selecting the right forum to use indicates more sophistication and high
intelligence than the way one speaks. ;-)
--
Michael Hoffman
Jul 19 '05 #4

P: n/a
On 2005-06-28, Michael Hoffman <ca*******@mh391.invalid> wrote:
muldoon wrote:
Americans consider having a "British accent" a sign of sophistication
and high intelligence. Many companies hire salespersons from Britain to
represent their products,etc. Question: When the British hear an
"American accent," does it sound unsophisticated and dumb?

Be blunt. We Americans need to know.
To be blunt, I have no idea what this has to do with Python.


Monty Python was mostly Brits?
Surely selecting the right forum to use indicates more
sophistication and high intelligence than the way one speaks.
;-)


Well, there is that...

--
Grant Edwards grante Yow! Hello... IRON
at CURTAIN? Send over a
visi.com SAUSAGE PIZZA! World War
III? No thanks!
Jul 19 '05 #5

P: n/a
Grant Edwards napisał(a):
To be blunt, I have no idea what this has to do with Python.


Monty Python was mostly Brits?


Wasn't they all Brits?

--
Jarek Zgoda
http://jpa.berlios.de/
Jul 19 '05 #6

P: n/a
Thats like posting about Google here because the newsgroup is hosted on
Google.

Jul 19 '05 #7

P: n/a

Michael Hoffman wrote:
muldoon wrote:
Americans consider having a "British accent" a sign of sophistication
and high intelligence. Many companies hire salespersons from Britain to
represent their products,etc. Question: When the British hear an
"American accent," does it sound unsophisticated and dumb?

Be blunt. We Americans need to know.


To be blunt, I have no idea what this has to do with Python. Surely
selecting the right forum to use indicates more sophistication and high
intelligence than the way one speaks. ;-)
--
Michael Hoffman


This is from California, not far from where they did the old atomic
bomb tests. Be tolerant. Mutation you know.

Now, what forum would you recommend? Any help would be appreciated.

Jul 19 '05 #8

P: n/a
On 2005-06-28, Jarek Zgoda <jz****@gazeta.usun.pl> wrote:
Grant Edwards napisał(a):
To be blunt, I have no idea what this has to do with Python.


Monty Python was mostly Brits?


Wasn't they all Brits?


Nope. Terry Gilliam was from Minneapolis.

--
Grant Edwards grante Yow! RELAX!!... This
at is gonna be a HEALING
visi.com EXPERIENCE!! Besides,
I work for DING DONGS!
Jul 19 '05 #9

P: n/a
On 2005-06-28, Devan L <de****@gmail.com> wrote:
Thats like posting about Google here because the newsgroup is hosted on
Google.


Except the newsgroup isn't "hosted on Google", and it's far
less interesting than Monty Python.

--
Grant Edwards grante Yow! "THE LITTLE PINK
at FLESH SISTERS," I saw them
visi.com at th' FLUROESCENT BULB
MAKERS CONVENTION...
Jul 19 '05 #10

P: n/a
muldoon wrote:
Now, what forum would you recommend? Any help would be appreciated.


Not here. Beyond that, you're on your own.

--
Robert Kern
rk***@ucsd.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
-- Richard Harter

Jul 19 '05 #11

P: n/a
On Tue, 28 Jun 2005 19:23:11 -0000, Grant Edwards <gr****@visi.com>
tapped the keyboard and brought forth:
On 2005-06-28, muldoon <br*******@dslextreme.com> wrote:
Americans consider having a "British accent" a sign of sophistication
and high intelligence.


That depends on the accent. I believe that's probably true for
the educated south of England, BBC, received pronunciation. I
don't think that's true for some of the other dialects from
northern areas (e.g. Liverpool) or the "cockney" accent.
Many companies hire salespersons from Britain to represent
their products,etc. Question: When the British hear an
"American accent," does it sound unsophisticated and dumb?


I too have always wondered about this.


Since you've acknowledged that it's only the RP accent which gets that
respect in the US (and since I speak it, I rather enjoy my visits
across the pond) and others are either cute or obvious hicks, it
shouldn't be a surprise that the same applies to the wide range of
accents used by Americans.

The strong Appalachian accent of the guide who took us round some
caves in WV last year was the epitome of unsophistication - although
what he said was extremely informative and delved into some advanced
science.

My wife's an Okie, but she speaks the US equivalent of RP - the one
used by newsreaders on the main terrestrial TV networks and which is
commonly thought to be used mostly in Ohio and other places just south
of the Great Lakes. If there's such a thing as a standard "American
accent", that's it. It neither sounds dumb nor clever - just American.

Some of those sonorous slow talkers from the South, and majestic bass
African-Americans like James Earl Jones or Morgan Freeman, have far
more gravitas than any English accent can: to us, such people sound
monumental.

But most of the obviously regional accents in the US sound cute or
picturesque, while the ones Americans tend to regard as hick accents
just sound comical.

The problem which a lot of fairly-midstream American accent users face
is that it's the same sort of thing which Brits try and imitate when
they want to suggest a snake-oil salesman. At bottom, an American
accent doesn't mark someone out to a Brit as dumb or unsophisticated,
but the immediate suspicion generated is that they're a phony and
likely to be saying stuff without much regard for its accuracy.

Cheers,

Mike

Jul 19 '05 #12

P: n/a
Grant Edwards napisał(a):
To be blunt, I have no idea what this has to do with Python.
Monty Python was mostly Brits?


Wasn't they all Brits?


Nope. Terry Gilliam was from Minneapolis.


Are you sure there are no Brits in Minneapolis?

--
Jarek Zgoda
http://jpa.berlios.de/
Jul 19 '05 #13

P: n/a
muldoon wrote:
Michael Hoffman wrote:
muldoon wrote:
Americans consider having a "British accent" a sign of sophistication
and high intelligence. Many companies hire salespersons from Britain to
represent their products,etc. Question: When the British hear an
"American accent," does it sound unsophisticated and dumb?

Be blunt. We Americans need to know.
To be blunt, I have no idea what this has to do with Python. Surely
selecting the right forum to use indicates more sophistication and high
intelligence than the way one speaks. ;-)

This is from California, not far from where they did the old atomic
bomb tests. Be tolerant. Mutation you know.


First you say "be blunt," now you say "be tolerant?" Make up your mind!

;-)
--
Michael Hoffman
Jul 19 '05 #14

P: n/a
Michael Hoffman (ca*******@mh391.invalid) wrote:
: muldoon wrote:
: > Americans consider having a "British accent" a sign of sophistication
: > and high intelligence. Many companies hire salespersons from Britain to
: > represent their products,etc. Question: When the British hear an
: > "American accent," does it sound unsophisticated and dumb?
: >
: > Be blunt. We Americans need to know.

: To be blunt, I have no idea what this has to do with Python. Surely
: selecting the right forum to use indicates more sophistication and high
: intelligence than the way one speaks. ;-)

Well you could draw a tenuous Python link on the headache inducing subject of
trying to remember which spelling is which when doing
something like:

thirdparty_module_1.color = thirdparty_module_2.colour
from __future__ import sane_spelling :-)


cds
Jul 19 '05 #15

P: n/a
Frankly, I can't watch Shakespeare or movies like "the full monty" or
"trainspotting" because I can't understand a damn word they say. British talk
sounds like gibberish to me for the most part. Out of all of these movies,
the only thing I ever could understand was something like "I've got the beast
in my sights misses Pennymoney". Haaar! Wow, that's a good one.

I think James Bond did it for Americans. He always wore a dinner jacket and
played a lot of backarack--which is only cool because you have to bet a lot
of money. Anyway, if you insist on making distinctions between the backwoods
of apalachia and european aristocracy, I should remind you of the recessive
genetic diseases that have historically plagued europe's nobility.

On Tuesday 28 June 2005 11:27 am, muldoon wrote:
Americans consider having a "British accent" a sign of sophistication
and high intelligence. Many companies hire salespersons from Britain to
represent their products,etc. Question: When the British hear an
"American accent," does it sound unsophisticated and dumb?

Be blunt. We Americans need to know. Should we try to change the way we
speak? Are there certain words that sound particularly goofy? Please
help us with your advice on this awkward matter.


--
James Stroud
UCLA-DOE Institute for Genomics and Proteomics
Box 951570
Los Angeles, CA 90095

http://www.jamesstroud.com/
Jul 19 '05 #16

P: n/a
On 2005-06-28, Jarek Zgoda <jz****@gazeta.usun.pl> wrote:
Grant Edwards napisał(a):
>To be blunt, I have no idea what this has to do with Python.
Monty Python was mostly Brits?

Wasn't they all Brits?


Nope. Terry Gilliam was from Minneapolis.


Are you sure there are no Brits in Minneapolis?


There are plenty of Brit's in Minneapolis. My favorite radio
DJ is one of them.

Perhap's Gilliam has lived in Britain long enough to be
considered a Brit, but he was born in Minneapolis, graduated
from College in LA, and didn't move to Britain until he was
something like 27. I believe he has British citizenship, so if
that's the criterion, he's a Brit now. However, back when he
was in Monty Python, he'd only lived in England for few years.

--
Grant Edwards grante Yow! How's it going in
at those MODULAR LOVE UNITS??
visi.com
Jul 19 '05 #17

P: n/a
Mike Holmans wrote:
My wife's an Okie, but she speaks the US equivalent of RP - the one
used by newsreaders on the main terrestrial TV networks and which is
commonly thought to be used mostly in Ohio and other places just south
of the Great Lakes. If there's such a thing as a standard "American
accent", that's it. It neither sounds dumb nor clever - just American.
The linguistic term for that accent, by the way, is General American.
The problem which a lot of fairly-midstream American accent users face
is that it's the same sort of thing which Brits try and imitate when
they want to suggest a snake-oil salesman.


And due to overcorrection, typically do a really bad job of it :-).

--
Erik Max Francis && ma*@alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM erikmaxfrancis
If I had never met you / Surely I'd be someone else
-- Anggun
Jul 19 '05 #18

P: n/a
On 2005-06-28, James Stroud <js*****@mbi.ucla.edu> wrote:
I think James Bond did it for Americans. He always wore a
dinner jacket and played a lot of backarack--which is only
cool because you have to bet a lot of money. Anyway, if you
insist on making distinctions between the backwoods of
apalachia and european aristocracy,
What, you think they sound the same?
I should remind you of the recessive genetic diseases that
have historically plagued europe's nobility.


If don't think the English are willing to laugh at the
nobility, you must not have seen the "Twit of the Year" skit or
the election skit with what's-his-name (pronounced "mangrove
throatwarbler").

--
Grant Edwards grante Yow! I wonder if I should
at put myself in ESCROW!!
visi.com
Jul 19 '05 #19

P: n/a
On 2005-06-29, Erik Max Francis <ma*@alcyone.com> wrote:
The problem which a lot of fairly-midstream American accent users face
is that it's the same sort of thing which Brits try and imitate when
they want to suggest a snake-oil salesman.


And due to overcorrection, typically do a really bad job of it :-).


That reminds me of a character in one of the old Dr. Who
series. I thought this character had some sort of speach
impediment. After a few episodes I caught a few cultural
allusions made by the character and it finally dawned on me the
the character was supposed to be an _American_.

I assume that when I try to speak with a British accent I sound
just as bad to a Brit.

--
Grant Edwards grante Yow! Why is everything
at made of Lycra Spandex?
visi.com
Jul 19 '05 #20

P: n/a
Jarek Zgoda wrote:
Grant Edwards napisał(a):
To be blunt, I have no idea what this has to do with Python.

Monty Python was mostly Brits?

Wasn't they all Brits?


I think one was a lumberjack (but he's okay),
which would make him a Canadian, eh?
Jul 19 '05 #21

P: n/a
On Tue, 28 Jun 2005 14:52:44 -0700, James Stroud <js*****@mbi.ucla.edu>
declaimed the following in comp.lang.python:

played a lot of backarack--which is only cool because you have to bet a lot
I have no idea of what game that is... But Baccarat would
probably be considered a European variant on Blackjack by most of the
lower-end folk visiting Vegas... The goal is similar -- get closest to
some defined sum -- but differs in that, as I recall, the sum is modulo
and, more important, the "shoe" (the dealer's card box) is not handled
by the house, but by the player (BTW, that player is the one at risk
too, the player with the shoe is playing against all the others /as if/
he/she were the house -- the croupier <?> is only there to monitor the
rules and transfer the chips/cards).

-- ================================================== ============ <
wl*****@ix.netcom.com | Wulfraed Dennis Lee Bieber KD6MOG <
wu******@dm.net | Bestiaria Support Staff <
================================================== ============ <
Home Page: <http://www.dm.net/~wulfraed/> <
Overflow Page: <http://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/> <

Jul 19 '05 #22

P: n/a
muldoon schrieb:
Now, what forum would you recommend? Any help would be appreciated.


alt.culture.us.*

--
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas, M+R Infosysteme, D-52070 Aachen, Tel +49-241-93878-0
E-mail 'cGV0ZXIubWFhc0BtcGx1c3IuZGU=\n'.decode('base64')
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Jul 19 '05 #23

P: n/a
On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 03:14:26 -0000,
Grant Edwards <gr****@visi.com> wrote:
cool because you have to bet a lot of money. Anyway, if you
insist on making distinctions between the backwoods of
apalachia and european aristocracy,


What, you think they sound the same?


I think that backwoods American speech is more archaic, and therefore is
possibly closer to historical European speech. Susan Cooper uses this as a
minor plot point in her juvenile novel "King of Shadows", which is about a
20th-century Southern kid who goes back to Elizabethan times and ends up
acting with Shakespeare; his accent ensures that he doesn't sound *too*
strange in 16th-century London.

--amk
Jul 19 '05 #24

P: n/a
On Tue, 28 Jun 2005 11:27:40 -0700, muldoon wrote:
Americans consider having a "British accent" a sign of sophistication
and high intelligence. Many companies hire salespersons from Britain to
represent their products,etc. Question: When the British hear an
"American accent," does it sound unsophisticated and dumb?
Which American accent?

Texan? Georgian cracker or Maine fisherman? New York taxi driver? Bill
Clinton or Jesse Jackson or George W Bush? California Valley girl,
Arkansas redneck or boyz from th' hood? Paris Hilton or Queen Latifah?
Be blunt. We Americans need to know. Should we try to change the way we
speak? Are there certain words that sound particularly goofy? Please
help us with your advice on this awkward matter.


Speaking as an Australia, the typical "film voice" (eg Harrison
Ford, Tom Cruise, etc) doesn't sound unsophisticated. In fact, when we
hear it, it doesn't sound like an accent at all, such is the influence of
Hollywood. (Which is linguistically impossible, of course, since *every*
way of speaking is by definition an accent.) The Hollywood voice is a
mixture of West Coast and very light mid-Western.

But as for the rest of you, yes, you sound -- strange. It depends on the
specific regional accent. At best, just different. At worst, dumber than a
box of hammers. Which is of course unfair: there is no connection between
accent and intelligence. But by gum, some accents just sound dumber than
others. My fiancee, from Ireland, has worked and lived in the USA for half
her life, and to her you all sound like Kermit the Frog and Miss Piggy.

Lest anyone gets offended, I should point out that every English-speaking
country have accents which are considered by others to mark the speaker as
a thick yokel. In Ireland, they look down on Kerrymen. In England, even
Yorkshiremen look down on Summerset, Devon and Dorset accents. And there
is nothing as thick-sounding as a broad Ocker Aussie accent.

But don't worry, there is one thing we all agree on throughout the
English-speaking world: you Americans don't speak English.

There are a few things that you can do to help:

Herb starts with H, not E. It isn't "ouse" or "ospital" or "istory". It
isn't "erb" either. You just sound like tossers when you try to pronounce
herb in the original French. And the same with homage.

Taking of herbs, there is no BAY in basil. And oregano sounds like Ray
Romano, not oh-reg-ano.

And please, fillet of fish only has a silent T if you are speaking French.

Aluminium is al-u-min-ium, not alum-i-num.

Scientists work in a la-bor-atory, not a lab-rat-ory, even if they have
lab rats in the laboratory.

Fans of the X-Men movies and comics will remember Professor Charles
Xavier. Unless you are Spanish (Kh-avier), the X sounds like a Z: Zaviour.
But never never never Xecks-Aviour or Eggs-Savior.

Nuclear. Say no more.
--
Steven.

Jul 19 '05 #25

P: n/a
On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 03:14:26 -0000,
Grant Edwards <gr****@visi.com> wrote:
On 2005-06-28, James Stroud <js*****@mbi.ucla.edu> wrote:
I think James Bond did it for Americans. He always wore a
dinner jacket and played a lot of backarack--which is only
cool because you have to bet a lot of money. Anyway, if you
insist on making distinctions between the backwoods of
apalachia and european aristocracy,
What, you think they sound the same?


As a recent transplant to Appalachia, I have heard that some linguists
speculate that because of the region's cultural isolation, perhaps the
locals here do actually speak as they did (and as their ancestors in
England did) a few hundred years ago.

Regards,
Dan

--
Dan Sommers
<http://www.tombstonezero.net/dan/>
Jul 19 '05 #26

P: n/a
[Mike Holmans]
Some of those sonorous slow talkers from the South, and majestic bass
African-Americans like James Earl Jones or Morgan Freeman, have far
more gravitas than any English accent can: to us, such people sound
monumental.


On a related note, have you ever seen any of the original undubbed Star
Wars scenes with Darth Vader, with the original voice of the English
actor who played him, Dave Prowse (The Green Cross Man, for those who
remember ;-)

Problem was, Mr. Prowse has a pronounced West Country accent. Imagine
it: Darth Vader (in the voice of Farmer Giles): "You are a Rebel, and a
Traitor to the Empire". Hilarious :-D, and impossible to take seriously.

Thankfully they overdubbed it with James Earl Jones, "Born in
Mississippi, raised in Michigan", who produced one of the finest and
most memorable voice performances in modern cinema.

get-orff-moy-lahnd-ly y'rs

--
alan kennedy
------------------------------------------------------
email alan: http://xhaus.com/contact/alan
Jul 19 '05 #27

P: n/a
Steven D'Aprano wrote:
Herb starts with H, not E. It isn't "ouse" or "ospital" or "istory". It
isn't "erb" either. You just sound like tossers when you try to pronounce
herb in the original French. And the same with homage.


Strangely enough there are Brits who pronounce "hotel" without an H at
the beginning. And even those who pronounce it with an H sometimes say
"an hotel" rather than "a hotel" because it used to be pronounced
starting with the vowel!

Similarly, the Brits should note that "idea" does not end in an "r" and
that "Eleanor" does.
--
Michael Hoffman
Jul 19 '05 #28

P: n/a
muldoon wrote:
Americans consider having a "British accent" a sign of sophistication
and high intelligence. Many companies hire salespersons from Britain to
represent their products,etc. Question: When the British hear an
"American accent," does it sound unsophisticated and dumb?

Be blunt. We Americans need to know. Should we try to change the way we
speak? Are there certain words that sound particularly goofy? Please
help us with your advice on this awkward matter.


To true Pythonistas, the only regional English accent which denotes
sophistication and high intelligence is the Dutch-English accent.

For those wishing to practice their faux-Dutch-English accent
(absolutely necessary if you are to be taken seriously at any
Python-related gathering, no matter where in the world it is held),
some examples to emulate can be found here (needs Quicktime):

http://classweb.gmu.edu/accent/dutch0.html

and here:

http://www.itconversations.com/shows/detail545.html
http://www.itconversations.com/shows/detail559.html

Tim C
Jul 19 '05 #29

P: n/a
Grant Edwards wrote:
That depends on the accent. I believe that's probably true for
the educated south of England, BBC, received pronunciation. I
don't think that's true for some of the other dialects from
northern areas (e.g. Liverpool) or the "cockney" accent.


What's exactly the "cockney" accent?
Is it related to some place or it's just a kind of slang?
I'm not sure, but I think that I read somewhere that it is common in
some parts of London, and that it is a sign of a particular social
class, more than a regionalism. Is that true?

Jul 19 '05 #30

P: n/a
Steven,

Very well written... I enjoyed reading your post!

Brian
---
Steven D'Aprano wrote:
On Tue, 28 Jun 2005 11:27:40 -0700, muldoon wrote:

Americans consider having a "British accent" a sign of sophistication
and high intelligence. Many companies hire salespersons from Britain to
represent their products,etc. Question: When the British hear an
"American accent," does it sound unsophisticated and dumb?

Which American accent?

Texan? Georgian cracker or Maine fisherman? New York taxi driver? Bill
Clinton or Jesse Jackson or George W Bush? California Valley girl,
Arkansas redneck or boyz from th' hood? Paris Hilton or Queen Latifah?

Be blunt. We Americans need to know. Should we try to change the way we
speak? Are there certain words that sound particularly goofy? Please
help us with your advice on this awkward matter.

Speaking as an Australia, the typical "film voice" (eg Harrison
Ford, Tom Cruise, etc) doesn't sound unsophisticated. In fact, when we
hear it, it doesn't sound like an accent at all, such is the influence of
Hollywood. (Which is linguistically impossible, of course, since *every*
way of speaking is by definition an accent.) The Hollywood voice is a
mixture of West Coast and very light mid-Western.

But as for the rest of you, yes, you sound -- strange. It depends on the
specific regional accent. At best, just different. At worst, dumber than a
box of hammers. Which is of course unfair: there is no connection between
accent and intelligence. But by gum, some accents just sound dumber than
others. My fiancee, from Ireland, has worked and lived in the USA for half
her life, and to her you all sound like Kermit the Frog and Miss Piggy.

Lest anyone gets offended, I should point out that every English-speaking
country have accents which are considered by others to mark the speaker as
a thick yokel. In Ireland, they look down on Kerrymen. In England, even
Yorkshiremen look down on Summerset, Devon and Dorset accents. And there
is nothing as thick-sounding as a broad Ocker Aussie accent.

But don't worry, there is one thing we all agree on throughout the
English-speaking world: you Americans don't speak English.

There are a few things that you can do to help:

Herb starts with H, not E. It isn't "ouse" or "ospital" or "istory". It
isn't "erb" either. You just sound like tossers when you try to pronounce
herb in the original French. And the same with homage.

Taking of herbs, there is no BAY in basil. And oregano sounds like Ray
Romano, not oh-reg-ano.

And please, fillet of fish only has a silent T if you are speaking French.

Aluminium is al-u-min-ium, not alum-i-num.

Scientists work in a la-bor-atory, not a lab-rat-ory, even if they have
lab rats in the laboratory.

Fans of the X-Men movies and comics will remember Professor Charles
Xavier. Unless you are Spanish (Kh-avier), the X sounds like a Z: Zaviour.
But never never never Xecks-Aviour or Eggs-Savior.

Nuclear. Say no more.

Jul 19 '05 #31

P: n/a
On 2005-06-29, Luis M. Gonzalez <lu*****@gmail.com> wrote:
Grant Edwards wrote:
That depends on the accent. I believe that's probably true for
the educated south of England, BBC, received pronunciation. I
don't think that's true for some of the other dialects from
northern areas (e.g. Liverpool) or the "cockney" accent.
What's exactly the "cockney" accent?


http://www.ic.arizona.edu/~lsp/CockneyEnglish.html
Is it related to some place or it's just a kind of slang? I'm
not sure, but I think that I read somewhere that it is common
in some parts of London, and that it is a sign of a particular
social class, more than a regionalism. Is that true?


I think it's both.

--
Grant Edwards grante Yow! Uh-oh!! I forgot
at to submit to COMPULSORY
visi.com URINALYSIS!
Jul 19 '05 #32

P: n/a
Steven D'Aprano wrote:
But don't worry, there is one thing we all agree on throughout the
English-speaking world: you Americans don't speak English.

There are a few things that you can do to help:

Herb starts with H, not E. It isn't "ouse" or "ospital" or "istory".
It isn't "erb" either. You just sound like tossers when you try to
pronounce herb in the original French. And the same with homage.

Taking of herbs, there is no BAY in basil. And oregano sounds like Ray
Romano, not oh-reg-ano.

And please, fillet of fish only has a silent T if you are speaking
French.
'T' is always silent in the USA.
- Innernet
- Twenny
Aluminium is al-u-min-ium, not alum-i-num.

Scientists work in a la-bor-atory, not a lab-rat-ory, even if they
have lab rats in the laboratory.

Fans of the X-Men movies and comics will remember Professor Charles
Xavier. Unless you are Spanish (Kh-avier), the X sounds like a Z:
Zaviour. But never never never Xecks-Aviour or Eggs-Savior.

Nuclear. Say no more.


Jul 19 '05 #33

P: n/a
On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 18:22:10 +0100, Alan Kennedy <al****@hotmail.com>
declaimed the following in comp.lang.python:
Thankfully they overdubbed it with James Earl Jones, "Born in
Mississippi, raised in Michigan", who produced one of the finest and
most memorable voice performances in modern cinema.
Ah, yes... "I am your father, Simba" <G>

-- ================================================== ============ <
wl*****@ix.netcom.com | Wulfraed Dennis Lee Bieber KD6MOG <
wu******@dm.net | Bestiaria Support Staff <
================================================== ============ <
Home Page: <http://www.dm.net/~wulfraed/> <
Overflow Page: <http://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/> <

Jul 19 '05 #34

P: n/a
On 29 Jun 2005 15:34:11 -0700, Luis M. Gonzalez <lu*****@gmail.com> wrote:
What's exactly the "cockney" accent?
Is it related to some place or it's just a kind of slang?
A cockney is a *real* Londoner, that is, someone born within the City
of London, a.k.a The Square Mile. More specifically, it's someone born
"within the sound of Bow Bells" - i.e. close to St Mary le Bow, London
- <http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=EC2V+6AU>. This is within the
theoretical sound of Bow Bells, you understand - there have been
frequent and lengthy periods during which Bow Bells have not been rung
at all. There are in fact no longer any hospitals with maternity units
within the sound of Bow Bells, so there will be vanishingly few
cockneys born in future.

Strangely enough, this makes *me* a cockney, though I've never lived
in the square mile, and my accent is pretty close to received. I do
*work* in the City, though!

The cockney accent used to be pretty distinct, but these days it's
pretty much merged into the "Estuary English" accent common throughout
the South East of England.
I'm not sure, but I think that I read somewhere that it is common in
some parts of London, and that it is a sign of a particular social
class, more than a regionalism. Is that true?


Cockney was London's working class accent, pretty much, thought it was
frequently affected by members of the middle classes. Estuary English
has taken over its position as the working class accent these days,
but with a much wider regional distribution.

How off topic is this? Marvellous!

--
Cheers,
Simon B,
si***@brunningonline.net,
http://www.brunningonline.net/simon/blog/
Jul 19 '05 #35

P: n/a
Well, yes, it is kinda off topic, but very interesting...
Being myself an argentine with spanish as mother tongue and a very bad
English, it's hard foro me to tell the difference between accents. I can
hardly tell an Irish from an English...
But what I did tell is the broad range of different accents within London
when I visited the city in 2001.

Some people seemed to speak very clear to me, and others seemed to be
speaking german!
And as far as I know, all these people were british, not immigrants (and
very hard to find indeed...).

Cheers,
Luis

----- Original Message -----
From: "Simon Brunning" <si************@gmail.com>
To: "Luis M. Gonzalez" <lu*****@gmail.com>
Cc: <py*********@python.org>
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2005 5:20 AM
Subject: Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a "British
accent"...
On 29 Jun 2005 15:34:11 -0700, Luis M. Gonzalez <lu*****@gmail.com> wrote:
What's exactly the "cockney" accent?
Is it related to some place or it's just a kind of slang?
A cockney is a *real* Londoner, that is, someone born within the City
of London, a.k.a The Square Mile. More specifically, it's someone born
"within the sound of Bow Bells" - i.e. close to St Mary le Bow, London
- <http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=EC2V+6AU>. This is within the
theoretical sound of Bow Bells, you understand - there have been
frequent and lengthy periods during which Bow Bells have not been rung
at all. There are in fact no longer any hospitals with maternity units
within the sound of Bow Bells, so there will be vanishingly few
cockneys born in future.

Strangely enough, this makes *me* a cockney, though I've never lived
in the square mile, and my accent is pretty close to received. I do
*work* in the City, though!

The cockney accent used to be pretty distinct, but these days it's
pretty much merged into the "Estuary English" accent common throughout
the South East of England.
I'm not sure, but I think that I read somewhere that it is common in
some parts of London, and that it is a sign of a particular social
class, more than a regionalism. Is that true?


Cockney was London's working class accent, pretty much, thought it was
frequently affected by members of the middle classes. Estuary English
has taken over its position as the working class accent these days,
but with a much wider regional distribution.

How off topic is this? Marvellous!

--
Cheers,
Simon B,
si***@brunningonline.net,
http://www.brunningonline.net/simon/blog/

Jul 19 '05 #36

P: n/a
Steven D'Aprano wrote:
Speaking as an Australia, ...
[snip]
But don't worry, there is one thing we all agree on throughout the
English-speaking world: you Americans don't speak English.


And lest you feel Steven's observation don't bear much weight, keep in
mind that he is speaking as an entire continent. ;-)

But, speaking as Antarctica, I must disagree. I don't think the Keepers
of the Canon of the English Language(tm) would hold up either your
Strine or our Canadian regional accents as examples of Real English
Pronunciation(tm). But that's the kind of thing that canon-keepers
obsess about, while the rest of us just get along and communicate with
one another. (By "us", I mean "us people", not "us continents" -- I
stopped speaking as Antarctica a few lines back.)

keep-your-stick-on-the-ice'ly yours,

Graham

Jul 19 '05 #37

P: n/a
Graham Fawcett wrote:
keep-your-stick-on-the-ice'ly yours,


Is that a Red Green reference? Man, I didn't think this could get any
more off-topic. :)

python-needs-more-duct-tape'ly yours,

Benji
Jul 19 '05 #38

P: n/a
On 2005-06-30, Luis M. Gonzalez <lu*****@gmail.com> wrote:
Well, yes, it is kinda off topic, but very interesting...
Being myself an argentine with spanish as mother tongue and a
very bad English, it's hard foro me to tell the difference
between accents. I can hardly tell an Irish from an English...
But what I did tell is the broad range of different accents
within London when I visited the city in 2001.

Some people seemed to speak very clear to me, and others
seemed to be speaking german!


I'm an American who grew up watching plenty of BBC, and I run
into afew native Londoners whom I have hard time understanding.
I don't ever remember having troubly understanding people
outside the city.

--
Grant Edwards grante Yow! I KAISER ROLL?! What
at good is a Kaiser Roll
visi.com without a little COLE SLAW
on the SIDE?
Jul 19 '05 #39

P: n/a
On Thu, 30 Jun 2005, Benji York wrote:
python-needs-more-duct-tape'ly yours,


You're in luck: Python 3000 will replace duck typing with duct taping.

tom

--
I know you wanna try and get away, but it's the hardest thing you'll ever know
Jul 19 '05 #40

P: n/a
On Thu, 30 Jun 2005, Simon Brunning wrote:
On 29 Jun 2005 15:34:11 -0700, Luis M. Gonzalez <lu*****@gmail.com> wrote:
What's exactly the "cockney" accent? Is it related to some place or
it's just a kind of slang?
The cockney accent used to be pretty distinct, but these days it's
pretty much merged into the "Estuary English" accent common throughout
the South East of England.


I grew up in Colchester, in the heart of Essex, the homeland of Estuary
English; i was recently told by a couple of Spanish colleagues that i
sounded just another colleague who has a Cockney accent.

Although, in fact, my parents aren't Essexen, and i left the county seven
years ago, so my accent is weird hybrid of Estuary and RP, and the
colleague isn't a real Cockney - i think he's from east-north-eastern
London - but he does overcompensate pronounciation-wise, so i don't know
what it all means.

It's also complicated by the fact that Essex actually has two completely
different accents - the town accent, which is Estuary and is pretty much
derived from emigrants from East London, and the country accent, which is
indigenous, and very similar to the Suffolk and Norfolk accents. I grew up
in a village and went to school (and went drinking etc) in the nearby
town, so i was exposed to a different accents at different times of day!
I'm not sure, but I think that I read somewhere that it is common in
some parts of London, and that it is a sign of a particular social
class, more than a regionalism. Is that true?


Cockney was London's working class accent, pretty much, thought it was
frequently affected by members of the middle classes. Estuary English
has taken over its position as the working class accent these days,
but with a much wider regional distribution.


blimey guvnor you is well dahn on ar muvver tung, innit?
How off topic is this? Marvellous!


Spike Milligan did an excellent sketch in the style of a TV
pop-anthropology documentary visiting the strange and primitive Cockanee
people of East London. It was part of one of his Q series; i'm not sure
which, but if it was Q5, then it would have had a direct impact on the
Monty Python team, since that series basically beat them to the punch with
the format they'd planned to use, forcing them to switch to the
stream-of-consciousness style that became their trademark and which is the
basis for python's indentation-based block structure. Therefore, if it
hadn't been for the quirks of the Cockney accent, we'd all be using curly
brackets and semicolons. FACT.

tom

--
I know you wanna try and get away, but it's the hardest thing you'll ever know
Jul 19 '05 #41

P: n/a
On Wed, 29 Jun 2005, Michael Hoffman wrote:
Steven D'Aprano wrote:
Herb starts with H, not E. It isn't "ouse" or "ospital" or "istory". It
isn't "erb" either. You just sound like tossers when you try to
pronounce herb in the original French.
Yes, i find this insanely irritating.
And the same with homage.
Strangely enough there are Brits who pronounce "hotel" without an H at
the beginning. And even those who pronounce it with an H sometimes say
"an hotel" rather than "a hotel" because it used to be pronounced
starting with the vowel!


That's an interesting one. In most English accents, and i think in RP,
it's "a hotel"; dropping of the aitch and the accompanying shift to 'an',
as in "an 'otel" is a symptom of Estuary english. However, as you say,
there is some weird historical precedent for pronouncing the 'h' but also
using 'an', as in "an hotel", which is practiced only by the
self-consciously posh (including, often, newsreaders), and sounds
completely absurd.
Similarly, the Brits should note that "idea" does not end in an "r" and that
"Eleanor" does.


How about carrier?

tom

--
I know you wanna try and get away, but it's the hardest thing you'll ever know
Jul 19 '05 #42

P: n/a


muldoon wrote:
Americans consider having a "British accent" a sign of sophistication
and high intelligence. Many companies hire salespersons from Britain to
represent their products,etc. Question: When the British hear an
"American accent," does it sound unsophisticated and dumb?

Be blunt. We Americans need to know. Should we try to change the way we
speak? Are there certain words that sound particularly goofy? Please
help us with your advice on this awkward matter.


I believe that all Americans should learn at least one British accent,
so start with one in Welsh or Gaelic, once they've mastered this then
try English.

Kindest Regards.

Mark Lawrence.

p.s. this is why I love c.l.py.

Jul 19 '05 #43

P: n/a
"Tom Anderson" <tw**@urchin.earth.li> wrote:
if it hadn't been for the quirks of the Cockney accent, we'd all be using curly
brackets and semicolons.


+1 QOTW

George

Jul 19 '05 #44

P: n/a
James Stroud wrote:
Frankly, I can't watch Shakespeare or movies like "the full monty" or
"trainspotting" because I can't understand a damn word they say. British talk
sounds like gibberish to me for the most part.


Have you had your hearing checked recently? Seriously. I have a hearing
defect and speakers from the UK give me by far the most difficulty.
People speaking English as a second language are more understandable.

Jul 19 '05 #45

P: n/a
Well--to take this as far OT as imaginable, yes I do have strange hearing
problems. I have difficulty recognizing speech of any kind with my right ear.
Amazing to think that this would be enhanced for British, but it would be
consistent with my experience, which seems similar to yours.

James

On Thursday 30 June 2005 01:46 pm, Bill wrote:
James Stroud wrote:
Frankly, I can't watch Shakespeare or movies like "the full monty" or
"trainspotting" because I can't understand a damn word they say. British
talk sounds like gibberish to me for the most part.


Have you had your hearing checked recently? Seriously. I have a hearing
defect and speakers from the UK give me by far the most difficulty.
People speaking English as a second language are more understandable.


--
James Stroud
UCLA-DOE Institute for Genomics and Proteomics
Box 951570
Los Angeles, CA 90095

http://www.jamesstroud.com/
Jul 19 '05 #46

P: n/a
On Thursday 30 June 2005 09:49 am, Benji York wrote:
Graham Fawcett wrote:
keep-your-stick-on-the-ice'ly yours,
Is that a Red Green reference? Man, I didn't think this

could get any more off-topic. :)

python-needs-more-duct-tape'ly yours,


No silly, it's "duck typing", not duct taping!

--
Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com )
Anansi Spaceworks http://www.anansispaceworks.com

Jul 19 '05 #47

P: n/a
T can be silent in England too ..

frui'
cricke'

or replaced with D in the US ..

budder
ledder

Jul 19 '05 #48

P: n/a
In message <11**********************@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups .com>,
Ch**********@oracle.com writes
T can be silent in England too ..

frui'
cricke'


Both of those words (fruit and cricket) have the letter T sounded.

Stephen (Nationality: English).
--
Stephen Kellett
Object Media Limited http://www.objmedia.demon.co.uk/software.html
Computer Consultancy, Software Development
Windows C++, Java, Assembler, Performance Analysis, Troubleshooting
Jul 19 '05 #49

P: n/a
On 28 Jun 2005 13:24:42 -0700, rumours say that "muldoon"
<br*******@dslextreme.com> might have written:
Now, what forum would you recommend? Any help would be appreciated.


alt.usage.english?
alt.languages.english?
alt.english.usage?
uk.culture.language.english?
--
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best.
"Dear Paul,
please stop spamming us."
The Corinthians
Jul 19 '05 #50

114 Replies

This discussion thread is closed

Replies have been disabled for this discussion.