I got three (3) files
(1) Untitled.aspx
(2) Untitled.aspx.1.cs
(3) Untitled.aspx.2.cs
These three files must be used together to make file #1, Untitled.aspx, page
work via
J.I.T. when the User first hits Internet Explorer 6.0 on your browser.
MY QUESTION to the Microsoft ASP.NET and C# teams.
I know how file #2,Untitled.aspx.1.cs, is connected and can be found by file
#1, the Untitled.aspx page.
How does file #3, Untitled.aspx.2.cs, get found by the file #1 when I the
first time with Internet Explorer?
IN OTHER WORDS, I am NOT using pre-compile for VS.NET to make these file
compile together.
I would be just using J.I.T. compiling like you do now with src= attribute
in a ASP.NET page.
Nov 22 '05
83  2834 
Maybe you should mind your own business.
SysAdmin generally don't know anything about SQL Server programming, nor or
they PAID to do so. Not true. Even if you set your SQL server to use integrated security, the
only windows users who have access to the server by default are local
and/or domain administrators. Regular users ONLY have access once an admin has
granted them access. In addition, the same security restrictions that can
be placed on sql users, can be placed on windows users. When granting a
windows user access to a database, a sql server login is actually created
to represent the windows user.
And do we need the LOCAL admin or DOMAIN admin to have access to the SQL
Server...they don't know any sql programming anyway, nor are they familiar
with the tables or the store procedures and much less the application that
uses the database anyway.
Um... the SysAdmin is generally responsible for the health and maintenence
of the server on which SQL server rides on. In fact, the sys admin is
often responsible for many of the same types of tasks that the DBA is
responsible for.
THEN you are NOT only a SYSADMIN. IF you perform DBA tasks, you are also a
DBA. If you walk like a DBA, talk like a DBA and quack like a DBA, then you
are a DBA.
Not always true. Consider the fact that not all businesses have only 1
web and 1 sql server to manage. Some of them have 10s, or even hundreds.
Well, you know they should be all in the SAME room and with a separate
network switch from the intranet then.....
And a disgruntled DBA with admin access to the db couldn't do the same
thing? Not a good argument.
YES it is a GOOD argument as you then have a PRETTY good IDEA of who had
access then.
Did you forget, "the principle of least privilege"? that's what they taught
you in the NT security world right?
What do they teach in in security school? Each attack is a NEW, "un-thought
of" attack.
Regular user or Admin User...DOES it REALLY MATTER as this new attack will
exploit this domain relationship and get a regular user to elevate their
user rights to admin rights, accidentally or mischievously ...
This has been a successful mode of attack before.....and it can be done many
many ways......
You allow them to possibly exploit an undocumented or unknown bug in the
system..."software will always have bugs, right???"
"-=Chris=-" <us*@newsgroup.instead> wrote in message
news:vr************@corp.supernews.com... I was minding my own business when nospam blurted out:
The last person you ever want to give access to your SQL Server is a Sys
Admin!!!!
Um... the SysAdmin is generally responsible for the health and maintenence
of the server on which SQL server rides on. In fact, the sys admin is
often responsible for many of the same types of tasks that the DBA is
responsible for. Speaking for myself, as a sys admin, I would refuse to manage a
server that I did not have access to. That would be like asking a developer to
develop a database application without access to the database.
Most attacks and computer crimes come from the inside...and GUESS
WHO those insiders might be? disgruntled SysAdmin.....
And a disgruntled DBA with admin access to the db couldn't do the same
thing? Not a good argument.
By opening up SQL Server to the Windows Security all those on the
Windows side are now potential suspects IF a computer crime would be
committed.....
Not true. Even if you set your SQL server to use integrated security, the
only windows users who have access to the server by default are local
and/or domain administrators. Regular users ONLY have access once an admin has
granted them access. In addition, the same security restrictions that can
be placed on sql users, can be placed on windows users. When granting a
windows user access to a database, a sql server login is actually created
to represent the windows user.
Second of all if there is a Web Server, the SQL server should be in the same room with an independent $50 dollar network switch directly connected to
the Web server thereby eliminating any network intercepts in the first
place.
Not always true. Consider the fact that not all businesses have only 1
web and 1 sql server to manage. Some of them have 10s, or even hundreds.
--
Insert corny line here
Here is another example of Microsoft security.....and why Integrated
security should cause you to FEEL INSECURE...
Mail server flaw opens Exchange to spam http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1105_2-5107904.html
Again and again......if it's not one thing, it's another........
Yeah, right, let's listen to Microsoft on security.......
Anyone basically can, on any given day, look up and see another flaw in
security or OOP or n-Tier....you name it, it's I.T. that doesn't know what
they are doing.....
stupid brainwashed programmers who listen to these authors, "so-called"
architects, gurus, Mr.-I-have-3+articles written-on-DevX-or-wrox, or some
..NET magazine......again and again...sitting around on a white board mapping
out UML has proven to be so failure ridden I don't know how you guys get
away with it!!!
.....Oh, wait.....you guys smoozy up with those VC's like Hummer Windblad and
their failed petstore who could not figure out that people don't want to pay
for shipping on a 50lb bag of dog food....duhhh......they could have at
least asked their mom about that!!!!
ah yes one 10page resume MBA leading another 10page resume MCSD.......
The only thing these MBA, MCSD, MVP's and gurus are good at are their
PowerPoint slides and typing their 3 and 4 letter acronyms....
Typing 3-4 letter acronyms onto a computer is not the same as typing out the
entire production code to a web app.
Example code and apps are not PRODUCTION apps....ask the
DotNetJunkies......I bet you deep down, they feel a lot different then what
they are saying.......and OOP and n-Tier are not what they are cut out to
be.......Look at the DotNetNuke re-write....shawn thinks that's the only
way...yet in his blogs he's complaining about how hard and how much time he
spent just trying to separate the data tier cleanly...and for WHAT???? to
hook up to some Access database.....all that trouble for people who want to
their database for free, yet the developer who spent all the time
programming thinks he is going to get paid for all that effort...ha ha
ha.....sooner or latter, this developer is going to learn that people who
are going to pay him something is going to pay for SQL Server....you think
people who want to use an Access database care about performance, security,
and the long term....guess again, if they don't care enough to even spend
for a $1000 copy of single client license sql server...don't you ever expect
them to pay you for n-Tier, OOP solution......
oh, but wait a second...let's let the access db get corrupted and then they
will come a running to you and then you can charge them more!!!!!, or will
they blame you........either way.....something gets a lot of downtime,
unhappy customers, and all because someone didn't stand their ground.....
"nospam" <n@ntspam.com> wrote in message
news:u2**************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl... Maybe you should mind your own business.
SysAdmin generally don't know anything about SQL Server programming, nor
or they PAID to do so.
Not true. Even if you set your SQL server to use integrated security,
the only windows users who have access to the server by default are local and/or domain administrators. Regular users ONLY have access once an admin has
granted them access. In addition, the same security restrictions that
can be placed on sql users, can be placed on windows users. When granting a
windows user access to a database, a sql server login is actually
created to represent the windows user.
And do we need the LOCAL admin or DOMAIN admin to have access to the SQL
Server...they don't know any sql programming anyway, nor are they familiar
with the tables or the store procedures and much less the application that
uses the database anyway.
Um... the SysAdmin is generally responsible for the health and
maintenence of the server on which SQL server rides on. In fact, the sys admin is
often responsible for many of the same types of tasks that the DBA is
responsible for.
THEN you are NOT only a SYSADMIN. IF you perform DBA tasks, you are also
a DBA. If you walk like a DBA, talk like a DBA and quack like a DBA, then
you are a DBA.
Not always true. Consider the fact that not all businesses have only 1 web and 1 sql server to manage. Some of them have 10s, or even hundreds.
Well, you know they should be all in the SAME room and with a separate
network switch from the intranet then.....
And a disgruntled DBA with admin access to the db couldn't do the same
thing? Not a good argument.
YES it is a GOOD argument as you then have a PRETTY good IDEA of who had
access then.
Did you forget, "the principle of least privilege"? that's what they
taught you in the NT security world right?
What do they teach in in security school? Each attack is a NEW,
"un-thought of" attack.
Regular user or Admin User...DOES it REALLY MATTER as this new attack will
exploit this domain relationship and get a regular user to elevate their
user rights to admin rights, accidentally or mischievously ...
This has been a successful mode of attack before.....and it can be done
many many ways......
You allow them to possibly exploit an undocumented or unknown bug in the
system..."software will always have bugs, right???"
"-=Chris=-" <us*@newsgroup.instead> wrote in message
news:vr************@corp.supernews.com... I was minding my own business when nospam blurted out:
The last person you ever want to give access to your SQL Server is a
Sys Admin!!!!
Um... the SysAdmin is generally responsible for the health and
maintenence of the server on which SQL server rides on. In fact, the sys admin is
often responsible for many of the same types of tasks that the DBA is
responsible for. Speaking for myself, as a sys admin, I would refuse to manage a
server that I did not have access to. That would be like asking a developer to
develop a database application without access to the database.
Most attacks and computer crimes come from the inside...and GUESS
WHO those insiders might be? disgruntled SysAdmin.....
And a disgruntled DBA with admin access to the db couldn't do the same
thing? Not a good argument.
By opening up SQL Server to the Windows Security all those on the Windows side are now potential suspects IF a computer crime would be
committed.....
Not true. Even if you set your SQL server to use integrated security,
the only windows users who have access to the server by default are local
and/or domain administrators. Regular users ONLY have access once an admin has
granted them access. In addition, the same security restrictions that
can be placed on sql users, can be placed on windows users. When granting a
windows user access to a database, a sql server login is actually
created to represent the windows user.
Second of all if there is a Web Server, the SQL server should be in
the same room with an independent $50 dollar network switch directly connected
to the Web server thereby eliminating any network intercepts in the first
place.
Not always true. Consider the fact that not all businesses have only 1
web and 1 sql server to manage. Some of them have 10s, or even hundreds.
--
Insert corny line here
Here is another example of Microsoft security.....and why Integrated
security should cause you to FEEL INSECURE...
Mail server flaw opens Exchange to spam http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1105_2-5107904.html
Again and again......if it's not one thing, it's another........
Yeah, right, let's listen to Microsoft on security.......
Anyone basically can, on any given day, look up and see another flaw in
security or OOP or n-Tier....you name it, it's I.T. that doesn't know what
they are doing.....
stupid brainwashed programmers who listen to these authors, "so-called"
architects, gurus, Mr.-I-have-3+articles written-on-DevX-or-wrox, or some
..NET magazine......again and again...sitting around on a white board mapping
out UML has proven to be so failure ridden I don't know how you guys get
away with it!!!
.....Oh, wait.....you guys smoozy up with those VC's like Hummer Windblad and
their failed petstore who could not figure out that people don't want to pay
for shipping on a 50lb bag of dog food....duhhh......they could have at
least asked their mom about that!!!!
ah yes one 10page resume MBA leading another 10page resume MCSD.......
The only thing these MBA, MCSD, MVP's and gurus are good at are their
PowerPoint slides and typing their 3 and 4 letter acronyms....
Typing 3-4 letter acronyms onto a computer is not the same as typing out the
entire production code to a web app.
Example code and apps are not PRODUCTION apps....ask the
DotNetJunkies......I bet you deep down, they feel a lot different then what
they are saying.......and OOP and n-Tier are not what they are cut out to
be.......Look at the DotNetNuke re-write....shawn thinks that's the only
way...yet in his blogs he's complaining about how hard and how much time he
spent just trying to separate the data tier cleanly...and for WHAT???? to
hook up to some Access database.....all that trouble for people who want to
their database for free, yet the developer who spent all the time
programming thinks he is going to get paid for all that effort...ha ha
ha.....sooner or latter, this developer is going to learn that people who
are going to pay him something is going to pay for SQL Server....you think
people who want to use an Access database care about performance, security,
and the long term....guess again, if they don't care enough to even spend
for a $1000 copy of single client license sql server...don't you ever expect
them to pay you for n-Tier, OOP solution......
oh, but wait a second...let's let the access db get corrupted and then they
will come a running to you and then you can charge them more!!!!!, or will
they blame you........either way.....something gets a lot of downtime,
unhappy customers, and all because someone didn't stand their ground.....
"nospam" <n@ntspam.com> wrote in message
news:u2**************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl... Maybe you should mind your own business.
SysAdmin generally don't know anything about SQL Server programming, nor
or they PAID to do so.
Not true. Even if you set your SQL server to use integrated security,
the only windows users who have access to the server by default are local and/or domain administrators. Regular users ONLY have access once an admin has
granted them access. In addition, the same security restrictions that
can be placed on sql users, can be placed on windows users. When granting a
windows user access to a database, a sql server login is actually
created to represent the windows user.
And do we need the LOCAL admin or DOMAIN admin to have access to the SQL
Server...they don't know any sql programming anyway, nor are they familiar
with the tables or the store procedures and much less the application that
uses the database anyway.
Um... the SysAdmin is generally responsible for the health and
maintenence of the server on which SQL server rides on. In fact, the sys admin is
often responsible for many of the same types of tasks that the DBA is
responsible for.
THEN you are NOT only a SYSADMIN. IF you perform DBA tasks, you are also
a DBA. If you walk like a DBA, talk like a DBA and quack like a DBA, then
you are a DBA.
Not always true. Consider the fact that not all businesses have only 1 web and 1 sql server to manage. Some of them have 10s, or even hundreds.
Well, you know they should be all in the SAME room and with a separate
network switch from the intranet then.....
And a disgruntled DBA with admin access to the db couldn't do the same
thing? Not a good argument.
YES it is a GOOD argument as you then have a PRETTY good IDEA of who had
access then.
Did you forget, "the principle of least privilege"? that's what they
taught you in the NT security world right?
What do they teach in in security school? Each attack is a NEW,
"un-thought of" attack.
Regular user or Admin User...DOES it REALLY MATTER as this new attack will
exploit this domain relationship and get a regular user to elevate their
user rights to admin rights, accidentally or mischievously ...
This has been a successful mode of attack before.....and it can be done
many many ways......
You allow them to possibly exploit an undocumented or unknown bug in the
system..."software will always have bugs, right???"
"-=Chris=-" <us*@newsgroup.instead> wrote in message
news:vr************@corp.supernews.com... I was minding my own business when nospam blurted out:
The last person you ever want to give access to your SQL Server is a
Sys Admin!!!!
Um... the SysAdmin is generally responsible for the health and
maintenence of the server on which SQL server rides on. In fact, the sys admin is
often responsible for many of the same types of tasks that the DBA is
responsible for. Speaking for myself, as a sys admin, I would refuse to manage a
server that I did not have access to. That would be like asking a developer to
develop a database application without access to the database.
Most attacks and computer crimes come from the inside...and GUESS
WHO those insiders might be? disgruntled SysAdmin.....
And a disgruntled DBA with admin access to the db couldn't do the same
thing? Not a good argument.
By opening up SQL Server to the Windows Security all those on the Windows side are now potential suspects IF a computer crime would be
committed.....
Not true. Even if you set your SQL server to use integrated security,
the only windows users who have access to the server by default are local
and/or domain administrators. Regular users ONLY have access once an admin has
granted them access. In addition, the same security restrictions that
can be placed on sql users, can be placed on windows users. When granting a
windows user access to a database, a sql server login is actually
created to represent the windows user.
Second of all if there is a Web Server, the SQL server should be in
the same room with an independent $50 dollar network switch directly connected
to the Web server thereby eliminating any network intercepts in the first
place.
Not always true. Consider the fact that not all businesses have only 1
web and 1 sql server to manage. Some of them have 10s, or even hundreds.
--
Insert corny line here
This is an excellent reply. I agree. Your comments actually apply across the
board for all kinds of programming. I never could understand how anyone who
knows how to write code but has no clue to business processes and user
behavior can ever come up with a working, useful system.
I have seen brilliant people who could recite the entire programming manual
page for page and write reams of code without ever printing it out to check
it and yet come up with a piece of cr** that the users hate.
Ok, so now you admit VS.NET sucks really bad as a designer tool. Let me
ask you something.
How can any company be productive if they have no idea how the users are
going to interact with the program the developer wrote? How can the
developer test, performance tune, TRULLY debug, if they haven't the
slightest idea of how their program will be used?
VS.NET needs to have in mind the single word, "PRODUCTIVITY" , not
"developer productivity" or "designer productivity" as what good is a
program written by a developer that has to be totally rewritten to how the
user is going to use it.
THE NUMBER #1 problem and reason for project failures is COMMUNICATION
between the developer and the client. Developers say, "It wasn't in the
spec! It wasn't in the spec!" Client's say, "but don't you know?? don't
you know??"
Now, what's the solution here? Learn more OOP, UML, n-Tier to be more
flexible? How about refactoring and some design patterns for even better
design? Let's buy every single Apress and Wrox book you can find and read
those. yes!!!......that will solve everything......
NO, THE PROBLEM is that DEVELOPERS are TOO CLUELESS to KNOW what to
develop in the first place!!!! AND they NEVER ASK in detail what need to be made
and WHY they are making it!!!!!!!!
It's amazing, these DEVELOPERS and MVP and RD's and Program Managers go to
non-OOP programmers and VB6 programmers and anything below their skill
level and say, "IT'S just TOOL and YOU NEED TO LEARN it like anything else".
***
YET, these very SAME DEVELOPERS are NOT EVEN willing to lift a FINGER to
L.E.A.R.N. a little bit about the "BUSINESS", UI, DESIGN and what the
customer wants in the first place.
***
Again, in the words of MISTER BILL, ".NET is SLOW GOING"....I wonder
WHY!!!!!
Ah yes, the GREAT DIVIDE...I guess abstraction will make everything
better!!!! HA HA HA HA....I can already see the results of abstraction in
the n-Tier..more failed IT projects than successess.
It's amazing!!! these System and Application Architects are SOooo
ABSTRACTED, it's no wonder why they have NO idea what the customer wants
and why their app is soooo slow........but wait, the app is never delivered on
time anyway.....so we have no idea if it's slow to begin with as they are
are still in the "design phase of OOP"
************************************************** *
OH, and by the WAY, COMDEX floor space is now 150,000 sqft.. down from
875,000 sqft. in the 1990s. And ATTENDANCE is 50,000...half of what it
had last year......
http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,4149,1381579,00.asp
************************************************** *
Wow, a single HomeDepot or Super Walmart could have more customers...
Any, REPEAT ANY, MVP, programmer, developer, author, IT person who says
that what they are doing is making customers happy is simply in denial of their
failures.
Cheers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This is an excellent reply. I agree. Your comments actually apply across the
board for all kinds of programming. I never could understand how anyone who
knows how to write code but has no clue to business processes and user
behavior can ever come up with a working, useful system.
I have seen brilliant people who could recite the entire programming manual
page for page and write reams of code without ever printing it out to check
it and yet come up with a piece of cr** that the users hate.
Ok, so now you admit VS.NET sucks really bad as a designer tool. Let me
ask you something.
How can any company be productive if they have no idea how the users are
going to interact with the program the developer wrote? How can the
developer test, performance tune, TRULLY debug, if they haven't the
slightest idea of how their program will be used?
VS.NET needs to have in mind the single word, "PRODUCTIVITY" , not
"developer productivity" or "designer productivity" as what good is a
program written by a developer that has to be totally rewritten to how the
user is going to use it.
THE NUMBER #1 problem and reason for project failures is COMMUNICATION
between the developer and the client. Developers say, "It wasn't in the
spec! It wasn't in the spec!" Client's say, "but don't you know?? don't
you know??"
Now, what's the solution here? Learn more OOP, UML, n-Tier to be more
flexible? How about refactoring and some design patterns for even better
design? Let's buy every single Apress and Wrox book you can find and read
those. yes!!!......that will solve everything......
NO, THE PROBLEM is that DEVELOPERS are TOO CLUELESS to KNOW what to
develop in the first place!!!! AND they NEVER ASK in detail what need to be made
and WHY they are making it!!!!!!!!
It's amazing, these DEVELOPERS and MVP and RD's and Program Managers go to
non-OOP programmers and VB6 programmers and anything below their skill
level and say, "IT'S just TOOL and YOU NEED TO LEARN it like anything else".
***
YET, these very SAME DEVELOPERS are NOT EVEN willing to lift a FINGER to
L.E.A.R.N. a little bit about the "BUSINESS", UI, DESIGN and what the
customer wants in the first place.
***
Again, in the words of MISTER BILL, ".NET is SLOW GOING"....I wonder
WHY!!!!!
Ah yes, the GREAT DIVIDE...I guess abstraction will make everything
better!!!! HA HA HA HA....I can already see the results of abstraction in
the n-Tier..more failed IT projects than successess.
It's amazing!!! these System and Application Architects are SOooo
ABSTRACTED, it's no wonder why they have NO idea what the customer wants
and why their app is soooo slow........but wait, the app is never delivered on
time anyway.....so we have no idea if it's slow to begin with as they are
are still in the "design phase of OOP"
************************************************** *
OH, and by the WAY, COMDEX floor space is now 150,000 sqft.. down from
875,000 sqft. in the 1990s. And ATTENDANCE is 50,000...half of what it
had last year......
http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,4149,1381579,00.asp
************************************************** *
Wow, a single HomeDepot or Super Walmart could have more customers...
Any, REPEAT ANY, MVP, programmer, developer, author, IT person who says
that what they are doing is making customers happy is simply in denial of their
failures.
Cheers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
On Sun, 16 Nov 2003 17:04:24 -0600, "-=Chris=-"
<us*@newsgroup.instead> wrote: I was minding my own business when nospam blurted out:
The last person you ever want to give access to your SQL Server is a Sys
Admin!!!!
Um... the SysAdmin is generally responsible for the health and maintenence
of the server on which SQL server rides on. In fact, the sys admin is often
responsible for many of the same types of tasks that the DBA is responsible
for. Speaking for myself, as a sys admin, I would refuse to manage a server
that I did not have access to. That would be like asking a developer to
develop a database application without access to the database.
<snip>
I wouldn't get my knickers in a bunch over anything that "nospam" had
to say on just about anything.
Oz
On Sun, 16 Nov 2003 17:04:24 -0600, "-=Chris=-"
<us*@newsgroup.instead> wrote: I was minding my own business when nospam blurted out:
The last person you ever want to give access to your SQL Server is a Sys
Admin!!!!
Um... the SysAdmin is generally responsible for the health and maintenence
of the server on which SQL server rides on. In fact, the sys admin is often
responsible for many of the same types of tasks that the DBA is responsible
for. Speaking for myself, as a sys admin, I would refuse to manage a server
that I did not have access to. That would be like asking a developer to
develop a database application without access to the database.
<snip>
I wouldn't get my knickers in a bunch over anything that "nospam" had
to say on just about anything.
Oz
So, you must be nospam's mom, I guess?
Bob Lehmann
"NRGeti" <ng***@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:PW******************@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net. .. This is an excellent reply. I agree. Your comments actually apply across
the board for all kinds of programming. I never could understand how anyone
who knows how to write code but has no clue to business processes and user
behavior can ever come up with a working, useful system.
I have seen brilliant people who could recite the entire programming
manual page for page and write reams of code without ever printing it out to
check it and yet come up with a piece of cr** that the users hate.
Ok, so now you admit VS.NET sucks really bad as a designer tool. Let me
ask you something.
How can any company be productive if they have no idea how the users are
going to interact with the program the developer wrote? How can the
developer test, performance tune, TRULLY debug, if they haven't the
slightest idea of how their program will be used?
VS.NET needs to have in mind the single word, "PRODUCTIVITY" , not
"developer productivity" or "designer productivity" as what good is a
program written by a developer that has to be totally rewritten to how
the user is going to use it.
THE NUMBER #1 problem and reason for project failures is COMMUNICATION
between the developer and the client. Developers say, "It wasn't in the
spec! It wasn't in the spec!" Client's say, "but don't you know?? don't
you know??"
Now, what's the solution here? Learn more OOP, UML, n-Tier to be more
flexible? How about refactoring and some design patterns for even
better design? Let's buy every single Apress and Wrox book you can find and
read those. yes!!!......that will solve everything......
NO, THE PROBLEM is that DEVELOPERS are TOO CLUELESS to KNOW what to
develop in the first place!!!! AND they NEVER ASK in detail what need to be made
and WHY they are making it!!!!!!!!
It's amazing, these DEVELOPERS and MVP and RD's and Program Managers go
to non-OOP programmers and VB6 programmers and anything below their skill
level and say, "IT'S just TOOL and YOU NEED TO LEARN it like anything else".
***
YET, these very SAME DEVELOPERS are NOT EVEN willing to lift a FINGER to
L.E.A.R.N. a little bit about the "BUSINESS", UI, DESIGN and what the
customer wants in the first place.
***
Again, in the words of MISTER BILL, ".NET is SLOW GOING"....I wonder
WHY!!!!!
Ah yes, the GREAT DIVIDE...I guess abstraction will make everything
better!!!! HA HA HA HA....I can already see the results of abstraction
in the n-Tier..more failed IT projects than successess.
It's amazing!!! these System and Application Architects are SOooo
ABSTRACTED, it's no wonder why they have NO idea what the customer wants
and why their app is soooo slow........but wait, the app is never delivered
on time anyway.....so we have no idea if it's slow to begin with as they
are are still in the "design phase of OOP"
************************************************** *
OH, and by the WAY, COMDEX floor space is now 150,000 sqft.. down from
875,000 sqft. in the 1990s. And ATTENDANCE is 50,000...half of what it
had last year......
http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,4149,1381579,00.asp
************************************************** *
Wow, a single HomeDepot or Super Walmart could have more customers...
Any, REPEAT ANY, MVP, programmer, developer, author, IT person who says
that what they are doing is making customers happy is simply in denial of
their failures.
Cheers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So, you must be nospam's mom, I guess?
Bob Lehmann
"NRGeti" <ng***@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:PW******************@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net. .. This is an excellent reply. I agree. Your comments actually apply across
the board for all kinds of programming. I never could understand how anyone
who knows how to write code but has no clue to business processes and user
behavior can ever come up with a working, useful system.
I have seen brilliant people who could recite the entire programming
manual page for page and write reams of code without ever printing it out to
check it and yet come up with a piece of cr** that the users hate.
Ok, so now you admit VS.NET sucks really bad as a designer tool. Let me
ask you something.
How can any company be productive if they have no idea how the users are
going to interact with the program the developer wrote? How can the
developer test, performance tune, TRULLY debug, if they haven't the
slightest idea of how their program will be used?
VS.NET needs to have in mind the single word, "PRODUCTIVITY" , not
"developer productivity" or "designer productivity" as what good is a
program written by a developer that has to be totally rewritten to how
the user is going to use it.
THE NUMBER #1 problem and reason for project failures is COMMUNICATION
between the developer and the client. Developers say, "It wasn't in the
spec! It wasn't in the spec!" Client's say, "but don't you know?? don't
you know??"
Now, what's the solution here? Learn more OOP, UML, n-Tier to be more
flexible? How about refactoring and some design patterns for even
better design? Let's buy every single Apress and Wrox book you can find and
read those. yes!!!......that will solve everything......
NO, THE PROBLEM is that DEVELOPERS are TOO CLUELESS to KNOW what to
develop in the first place!!!! AND they NEVER ASK in detail what need to be made
and WHY they are making it!!!!!!!!
It's amazing, these DEVELOPERS and MVP and RD's and Program Managers go
to non-OOP programmers and VB6 programmers and anything below their skill
level and say, "IT'S just TOOL and YOU NEED TO LEARN it like anything else".
***
YET, these very SAME DEVELOPERS are NOT EVEN willing to lift a FINGER to
L.E.A.R.N. a little bit about the "BUSINESS", UI, DESIGN and what the
customer wants in the first place.
***
Again, in the words of MISTER BILL, ".NET is SLOW GOING"....I wonder
WHY!!!!!
Ah yes, the GREAT DIVIDE...I guess abstraction will make everything
better!!!! HA HA HA HA....I can already see the results of abstraction
in the n-Tier..more failed IT projects than successess.
It's amazing!!! these System and Application Architects are SOooo
ABSTRACTED, it's no wonder why they have NO idea what the customer wants
and why their app is soooo slow........but wait, the app is never delivered
on time anyway.....so we have no idea if it's slow to begin with as they
are are still in the "design phase of OOP"
************************************************** *
OH, and by the WAY, COMDEX floor space is now 150,000 sqft.. down from
875,000 sqft. in the 1990s. And ATTENDANCE is 50,000...half of what it
had last year......
http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,4149,1381579,00.asp
************************************************** *
Wow, a single HomeDepot or Super Walmart could have more customers...
Any, REPEAT ANY, MVP, programmer, developer, author, IT person who says
that what they are doing is making customers happy is simply in denial of
their failures.
Cheers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Nah! I am his pop. Anyway it sense to me on this issue.
"Bob Lehmann" <none> wrote in message
news:OG**************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl... So, you must be nospam's mom, I guess?
Bob Lehmann
"NRGeti" <ng***@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:PW******************@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net. .. This is an excellent reply. I agree. Your comments actually apply across the board for all kinds of programming. I never could understand how anyone
who knows how to write code but has no clue to business processes and user
behavior can ever come up with a working, useful system.
I have seen brilliant people who could recite the entire programming
manual page for page and write reams of code without ever printing it out to
check it and yet come up with a piece of cr** that the users hate.
Ok, so now you admit VS.NET sucks really bad as a designer tool. Let
me ask you something.
How can any company be productive if they have no idea how the users
are going to interact with the program the developer wrote? How can the
developer test, performance tune, TRULLY debug, if they haven't the
slightest idea of how their program will be used?
VS.NET needs to have in mind the single word, "PRODUCTIVITY" , not
"developer productivity" or "designer productivity" as what good is a
program written by a developer that has to be totally rewritten to how the user is going to use it.
THE NUMBER #1 problem and reason for project failures is COMMUNICATION
between the developer and the client. Developers say, "It wasn't in
the spec! It wasn't in the spec!" Client's say, "but don't you know??
don't you know??"
Now, what's the solution here? Learn more OOP, UML, n-Tier to be more
flexible? How about refactoring and some design patterns for even better design? Let's buy every single Apress and Wrox book you can find and read those. yes!!!......that will solve everything......
NO, THE PROBLEM is that DEVELOPERS are TOO CLUELESS to KNOW what to
develop in the first place!!!! AND they NEVER ASK in detail what need to be
made and WHY they are making it!!!!!!!!
It's amazing, these DEVELOPERS and MVP and RD's and Program Managers
go to non-OOP programmers and VB6 programmers and anything below their skill level and say, "IT'S just TOOL and YOU NEED TO LEARN it like anything else".
***
YET, these very SAME DEVELOPERS are NOT EVEN willing to lift a FINGER
to L.E.A.R.N. a little bit about the "BUSINESS", UI, DESIGN and what the
customer wants in the first place.
***
Again, in the words of MISTER BILL, ".NET is SLOW GOING"....I wonder
WHY!!!!!
Ah yes, the GREAT DIVIDE...I guess abstraction will make everything
better!!!! HA HA HA HA....I can already see the results of abstraction
in the n-Tier..more failed IT projects than successess.
It's amazing!!! these System and Application Architects are SOooo
ABSTRACTED, it's no wonder why they have NO idea what the customer
wants and why their app is soooo slow........but wait, the app is never
delivered on time anyway.....so we have no idea if it's slow to begin with as they are are still in the "design phase of OOP"
************************************************** *
OH, and by the WAY, COMDEX floor space is now 150,000 sqft.. down from
875,000 sqft. in the 1990s. And ATTENDANCE is 50,000...half of what
it had last year......
http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,4149,1381579,00.asp
************************************************** *
Wow, a single HomeDepot or Super Walmart could have more customers...
Any, REPEAT ANY, MVP, programmer, developer, author, IT person who
says that what they are doing is making customers happy is simply in denial of
their failures.
Cheers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Nah! I am his pop. Anyway it sense to me on this issue.
"Bob Lehmann" <none> wrote in message
news:OG**************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl... So, you must be nospam's mom, I guess?
Bob Lehmann
"NRGeti" <ng***@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:PW******************@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net. .. This is an excellent reply. I agree. Your comments actually apply across the board for all kinds of programming. I never could understand how anyone
who knows how to write code but has no clue to business processes and user
behavior can ever come up with a working, useful system.
I have seen brilliant people who could recite the entire programming
manual page for page and write reams of code without ever printing it out to
check it and yet come up with a piece of cr** that the users hate.
Ok, so now you admit VS.NET sucks really bad as a designer tool. Let
me ask you something.
How can any company be productive if they have no idea how the users
are going to interact with the program the developer wrote? How can the
developer test, performance tune, TRULLY debug, if they haven't the
slightest idea of how their program will be used?
VS.NET needs to have in mind the single word, "PRODUCTIVITY" , not
"developer productivity" or "designer productivity" as what good is a
program written by a developer that has to be totally rewritten to how the user is going to use it.
THE NUMBER #1 problem and reason for project failures is COMMUNICATION
between the developer and the client. Developers say, "It wasn't in
the spec! It wasn't in the spec!" Client's say, "but don't you know??
don't you know??"
Now, what's the solution here? Learn more OOP, UML, n-Tier to be more
flexible? How about refactoring and some design patterns for even better design? Let's buy every single Apress and Wrox book you can find and read those. yes!!!......that will solve everything......
NO, THE PROBLEM is that DEVELOPERS are TOO CLUELESS to KNOW what to
develop in the first place!!!! AND they NEVER ASK in detail what need to be
made and WHY they are making it!!!!!!!!
It's amazing, these DEVELOPERS and MVP and RD's and Program Managers
go to non-OOP programmers and VB6 programmers and anything below their skill level and say, "IT'S just TOOL and YOU NEED TO LEARN it like anything else".
***
YET, these very SAME DEVELOPERS are NOT EVEN willing to lift a FINGER
to L.E.A.R.N. a little bit about the "BUSINESS", UI, DESIGN and what the
customer wants in the first place.
***
Again, in the words of MISTER BILL, ".NET is SLOW GOING"....I wonder
WHY!!!!!
Ah yes, the GREAT DIVIDE...I guess abstraction will make everything
better!!!! HA HA HA HA....I can already see the results of abstraction
in the n-Tier..more failed IT projects than successess.
It's amazing!!! these System and Application Architects are SOooo
ABSTRACTED, it's no wonder why they have NO idea what the customer
wants and why their app is soooo slow........but wait, the app is never
delivered on time anyway.....so we have no idea if it's slow to begin with as they are are still in the "design phase of OOP"
************************************************** *
OH, and by the WAY, COMDEX floor space is now 150,000 sqft.. down from
875,000 sqft. in the 1990s. And ATTENDANCE is 50,000...half of what
it had last year......
http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,4149,1381579,00.asp
************************************************** *
Wow, a single HomeDepot or Super Walmart could have more customers...
Any, REPEAT ANY, MVP, programmer, developer, author, IT person who
says that what they are doing is making customers happy is simply in denial of
their failures.
Cheers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You must be very proud of him!
Bob Lehmann
"NRGeti" <ng***@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:1g*********************@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.n et... Nah! I am his pop. Anyway it sense to me on this issue.
"Bob Lehmann" <none> wrote in message
news:OG**************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl... So, you must be nospam's mom, I guess?
Bob Lehmann
"NRGeti" <ng***@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:PW******************@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net. .. This is an excellent reply. I agree. Your comments actually apply
across the board for all kinds of programming. I never could understand how
anyone who knows how to write code but has no clue to business processes and user
behavior can ever come up with a working, useful system.
I have seen brilliant people who could recite the entire programming manual page for page and write reams of code without ever printing it out to
check it and yet come up with a piece of cr** that the users hate.
>
> Ok, so now you admit VS.NET sucks really bad as a designer tool.
Let me ask
> you something.
> How can any company be productive if they have no idea how the users are > going to interact with the program the developer wrote? How can the
> developer test, performance tune, TRULLY debug, if they haven't the
> slightest idea of how their program will be used?
>
> VS.NET needs to have in mind the single word, "PRODUCTIVITY" , not
> "developer productivity" or "designer productivity" as what good is
a > program written by a developer that has to be totally rewritten to
how the > user is going to use it.
>
> THE NUMBER #1 problem and reason for project failures is
COMMUNICATION > between the developer and the client. Developers say, "It wasn't in the > spec! It wasn't in the spec!" Client's say, "but don't you know?? don't you
> know??"
>
> Now, what's the solution here? Learn more OOP, UML, n-Tier to be
more > flexible? How about refactoring and some design patterns for even
better > design? Let's buy every single Apress and Wrox book you can find
and read > those. yes!!!......that will solve everything......
>
> NO, THE PROBLEM is that DEVELOPERS are TOO CLUELESS to KNOW what to
develop
> in the first place!!!! AND they NEVER ASK in detail what need to be made and
> WHY they are making it!!!!!!!!
>
> It's amazing, these DEVELOPERS and MVP and RD's and Program Managers go to > non-OOP programmers and VB6 programmers and anything below their
skill level
> and say, "IT'S just TOOL and YOU NEED TO LEARN it like anything
else". >
> ***
> YET, these very SAME DEVELOPERS are NOT EVEN willing to lift a
FINGER to > L.E.A.R.N. a little bit about the "BUSINESS", UI, DESIGN and what
the > customer wants in the first place.
> ***
>
> Again, in the words of MISTER BILL, ".NET is SLOW GOING"....I wonder
> WHY!!!!!
>
>
> Ah yes, the GREAT DIVIDE...I guess abstraction will make everything
> better!!!! HA HA HA HA....I can already see the results of
abstraction in > the n-Tier..more failed IT projects than successess.
>
> It's amazing!!! these System and Application Architects are SOooo
> ABSTRACTED, it's no wonder why they have NO idea what the customer wants and
> why their app is soooo slow........but wait, the app is never delivered on > time anyway.....so we have no idea if it's slow to begin with as
they are > are still in the "design phase of OOP"
>
> ************************************************** *
> OH, and by the WAY, COMDEX floor space is now 150,000 sqft.. down
from > 875,000 sqft. in the 1990s. And ATTENDANCE is 50,000...half of what
it had
> last year......
> http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,4149,1381579,00.asp
> ************************************************** *
>
>
> Wow, a single HomeDepot or Super Walmart could have more
customers... >
>
> Any, REPEAT ANY, MVP, programmer, developer, author, IT person who says that
> what they are doing is making customers happy is simply in denial of
their > failures.
>
>
> Cheers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You must be very proud of him!
Bob Lehmann
"NRGeti" <ng***@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:1g*********************@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.n et... Nah! I am his pop. Anyway it sense to me on this issue.
"Bob Lehmann" <none> wrote in message
news:OG**************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl... So, you must be nospam's mom, I guess?
Bob Lehmann
"NRGeti" <ng***@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:PW******************@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net. .. This is an excellent reply. I agree. Your comments actually apply
across the board for all kinds of programming. I never could understand how
anyone who knows how to write code but has no clue to business processes and user
behavior can ever come up with a working, useful system.
I have seen brilliant people who could recite the entire programming manual page for page and write reams of code without ever printing it out to
check it and yet come up with a piece of cr** that the users hate.
>
> Ok, so now you admit VS.NET sucks really bad as a designer tool.
Let me ask
> you something.
> How can any company be productive if they have no idea how the users are > going to interact with the program the developer wrote? How can the
> developer test, performance tune, TRULLY debug, if they haven't the
> slightest idea of how their program will be used?
>
> VS.NET needs to have in mind the single word, "PRODUCTIVITY" , not
> "developer productivity" or "designer productivity" as what good is
a > program written by a developer that has to be totally rewritten to
how the > user is going to use it.
>
> THE NUMBER #1 problem and reason for project failures is
COMMUNICATION > between the developer and the client. Developers say, "It wasn't in the > spec! It wasn't in the spec!" Client's say, "but don't you know?? don't you
> know??"
>
> Now, what's the solution here? Learn more OOP, UML, n-Tier to be
more > flexible? How about refactoring and some design patterns for even
better > design? Let's buy every single Apress and Wrox book you can find
and read > those. yes!!!......that will solve everything......
>
> NO, THE PROBLEM is that DEVELOPERS are TOO CLUELESS to KNOW what to
develop
> in the first place!!!! AND they NEVER ASK in detail what need to be made and
> WHY they are making it!!!!!!!!
>
> It's amazing, these DEVELOPERS and MVP and RD's and Program Managers go to > non-OOP programmers and VB6 programmers and anything below their
skill level
> and say, "IT'S just TOOL and YOU NEED TO LEARN it like anything
else". >
> ***
> YET, these very SAME DEVELOPERS are NOT EVEN willing to lift a
FINGER to > L.E.A.R.N. a little bit about the "BUSINESS", UI, DESIGN and what
the > customer wants in the first place.
> ***
>
> Again, in the words of MISTER BILL, ".NET is SLOW GOING"....I wonder
> WHY!!!!!
>
>
> Ah yes, the GREAT DIVIDE...I guess abstraction will make everything
> better!!!! HA HA HA HA....I can already see the results of
abstraction in > the n-Tier..more failed IT projects than successess.
>
> It's amazing!!! these System and Application Architects are SOooo
> ABSTRACTED, it's no wonder why they have NO idea what the customer wants and
> why their app is soooo slow........but wait, the app is never delivered on > time anyway.....so we have no idea if it's slow to begin with as
they are > are still in the "design phase of OOP"
>
> ************************************************** *
> OH, and by the WAY, COMDEX floor space is now 150,000 sqft.. down
from > 875,000 sqft. in the 1990s. And ATTENDANCE is 50,000...half of what
it had
> last year......
> http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,4149,1381579,00.asp
> ************************************************** *
>
>
> Wow, a single HomeDepot or Super Walmart could have more
customers... >
>
> Any, REPEAT ANY, MVP, programmer, developer, author, IT person who says that
> what they are doing is making customers happy is simply in denial of
their > failures.
>
>
> Cheers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Not at all. I haven't seen him since his birth. He got lost somehow.
"Bob Lehmann" <none> wrote in message
news:%2****************@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl... You must be very proud of him!
Bob Lehmann
"NRGeti" <ng***@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:1g*********************@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.n et... Nah! I am his pop. Anyway it sense to me on this issue.
"Bob Lehmann" <none> wrote in message
news:OG**************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl... So, you must be nospam's mom, I guess?
Bob Lehmann
"NRGeti" <ng***@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:PW******************@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net. ..
> This is an excellent reply. I agree. Your comments actually apply across the
> board for all kinds of programming. I never could understand how anyone who
> knows how to write code but has no clue to business processes and
user > behavior can ever come up with a working, useful system.
>
> I have seen brilliant people who could recite the entire programming
manual
> page for page and write reams of code without ever printing it out
to check
> it and yet come up with a piece of cr** that the users hate.
>
>
> >
> > Ok, so now you admit VS.NET sucks really bad as a designer tool. Let me > ask
> > you something.
> > How can any company be productive if they have no idea how the
users are > > going to interact with the program the developer wrote? How can
the > > developer test, performance tune, TRULLY debug, if they haven't
the > > slightest idea of how their program will be used?
> >
> > VS.NET needs to have in mind the single word, "PRODUCTIVITY" , not
> > "developer productivity" or "designer productivity" as what good
is a > > program written by a developer that has to be totally rewritten to how the
> > user is going to use it.
> >
> > THE NUMBER #1 problem and reason for project failures is COMMUNICATION > > between the developer and the client. Developers say, "It wasn't
in the > > spec! It wasn't in the spec!" Client's say, "but don't you know??
don't > you
> > know??"
> >
> > Now, what's the solution here? Learn more OOP, UML, n-Tier to be more > > flexible? How about refactoring and some design patterns for even
better
> > design? Let's buy every single Apress and Wrox book you can find and read
> > those. yes!!!......that will solve everything......
> >
> > NO, THE PROBLEM is that DEVELOPERS are TOO CLUELESS to KNOW what
to > develop
> > in the first place!!!! AND they NEVER ASK in detail what need to
be made > and
> > WHY they are making it!!!!!!!!
> >
> > It's amazing, these DEVELOPERS and MVP and RD's and Program
Managers go to
> > non-OOP programmers and VB6 programmers and anything below their skill > level
> > and say, "IT'S just TOOL and YOU NEED TO LEARN it like anything else". > >
> > ***
> > YET, these very SAME DEVELOPERS are NOT EVEN willing to lift a FINGER to > > L.E.A.R.N. a little bit about the "BUSINESS", UI, DESIGN and what
the > > customer wants in the first place.
> > ***
> >
> > Again, in the words of MISTER BILL, ".NET is SLOW GOING"....I
wonder > > WHY!!!!!
> >
> >
> > Ah yes, the GREAT DIVIDE...I guess abstraction will make
everything > > better!!!! HA HA HA HA....I can already see the results of
abstraction in
> > the n-Tier..more failed IT projects than successess.
> >
> > It's amazing!!! these System and Application Architects are SOooo
> > ABSTRACTED, it's no wonder why they have NO idea what the customer
wants > and
> > why their app is soooo slow........but wait, the app is never
delivered on
> > time anyway.....so we have no idea if it's slow to begin with as they are
> > are still in the "design phase of OOP"
> >
> > ************************************************** *
> > OH, and by the WAY, COMDEX floor space is now 150,000 sqft.. down from > > 875,000 sqft. in the 1990s. And ATTENDANCE is 50,000...half of
what it > had
> > last year......
> > http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,4149,1381579,00.asp
> > ************************************************** *
> >
> >
> > Wow, a single HomeDepot or Super Walmart could have more customers... > >
> >
> > Any, REPEAT ANY, MVP, programmer, developer, author, IT person who
says > that
> > what they are doing is making customers happy is simply in denial
of their
> > failures.
> >
> >
> > Cheers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>
Not at all. I haven't seen him since his birth. He got lost somehow.
"Bob Lehmann" <none> wrote in message
news:%2****************@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl... You must be very proud of him!
Bob Lehmann
"NRGeti" <ng***@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:1g*********************@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.n et... Nah! I am his pop. Anyway it sense to me on this issue.
"Bob Lehmann" <none> wrote in message
news:OG**************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl... So, you must be nospam's mom, I guess?
Bob Lehmann
"NRGeti" <ng***@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:PW******************@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net. ..
> This is an excellent reply. I agree. Your comments actually apply across the
> board for all kinds of programming. I never could understand how anyone who
> knows how to write code but has no clue to business processes and
user > behavior can ever come up with a working, useful system.
>
> I have seen brilliant people who could recite the entire programming
manual
> page for page and write reams of code without ever printing it out
to check
> it and yet come up with a piece of cr** that the users hate.
>
>
> >
> > Ok, so now you admit VS.NET sucks really bad as a designer tool. Let me > ask
> > you something.
> > How can any company be productive if they have no idea how the
users are > > going to interact with the program the developer wrote? How can
the > > developer test, performance tune, TRULLY debug, if they haven't
the > > slightest idea of how their program will be used?
> >
> > VS.NET needs to have in mind the single word, "PRODUCTIVITY" , not
> > "developer productivity" or "designer productivity" as what good
is a > > program written by a developer that has to be totally rewritten to how the
> > user is going to use it.
> >
> > THE NUMBER #1 problem and reason for project failures is COMMUNICATION > > between the developer and the client. Developers say, "It wasn't
in the > > spec! It wasn't in the spec!" Client's say, "but don't you know??
don't > you
> > know??"
> >
> > Now, what's the solution here? Learn more OOP, UML, n-Tier to be more > > flexible? How about refactoring and some design patterns for even
better
> > design? Let's buy every single Apress and Wrox book you can find and read
> > those. yes!!!......that will solve everything......
> >
> > NO, THE PROBLEM is that DEVELOPERS are TOO CLUELESS to KNOW what
to > develop
> > in the first place!!!! AND they NEVER ASK in detail what need to
be made > and
> > WHY they are making it!!!!!!!!
> >
> > It's amazing, these DEVELOPERS and MVP and RD's and Program
Managers go to
> > non-OOP programmers and VB6 programmers and anything below their skill > level
> > and say, "IT'S just TOOL and YOU NEED TO LEARN it like anything else". > >
> > ***
> > YET, these very SAME DEVELOPERS are NOT EVEN willing to lift a FINGER to > > L.E.A.R.N. a little bit about the "BUSINESS", UI, DESIGN and what
the > > customer wants in the first place.
> > ***
> >
> > Again, in the words of MISTER BILL, ".NET is SLOW GOING"....I
wonder > > WHY!!!!!
> >
> >
> > Ah yes, the GREAT DIVIDE...I guess abstraction will make
everything > > better!!!! HA HA HA HA....I can already see the results of
abstraction in
> > the n-Tier..more failed IT projects than successess.
> >
> > It's amazing!!! these System and Application Architects are SOooo
> > ABSTRACTED, it's no wonder why they have NO idea what the customer
wants > and
> > why their app is soooo slow........but wait, the app is never
delivered on
> > time anyway.....so we have no idea if it's slow to begin with as they are
> > are still in the "design phase of OOP"
> >
> > ************************************************** *
> > OH, and by the WAY, COMDEX floor space is now 150,000 sqft.. down from > > 875,000 sqft. in the 1990s. And ATTENDANCE is 50,000...half of
what it > had
> > last year......
> > http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,4149,1381579,00.asp
> > ************************************************** *
> >
> >
> > Wow, a single HomeDepot or Super Walmart could have more customers... > >
> >
> > Any, REPEAT ANY, MVP, programmer, developer, author, IT person who
says > that
> > what they are doing is making customers happy is simply in denial
of their
> > failures.
> >
> >
> > Cheers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>
You know you need to try a LOT harder to discredit me......
To bad your nose is still buried in your n-Tier and OOP books and articles
and "example" code....
I could easily bring up a few points in the past were everyone of you MVP's
and gurus thought I was a complete idiot screeming off the top of my lungs
how the current architecture or feature, or missing feature was stupid, yet
only to be validated years later......
If I were you, I would be very quiet, otherwise you would have to have a
good portion of humble pie.
"Bob Lehmann" <none> wrote in message
news:%2****************@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl... You must be very proud of him!
Bob Lehmann
"NRGeti" <ng***@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:1g*********************@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.n et... Nah! I am his pop. Anyway it sense to me on this issue.
"Bob Lehmann" <none> wrote in message
news:OG**************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl... So, you must be nospam's mom, I guess?
Bob Lehmann
"NRGeti" <ng***@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:PW******************@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net. ..
> This is an excellent reply. I agree. Your comments actually apply across the
> board for all kinds of programming. I never could understand how anyone who
> knows how to write code but has no clue to business processes and
user > behavior can ever come up with a working, useful system.
>
> I have seen brilliant people who could recite the entire programming
manual
> page for page and write reams of code without ever printing it out
to check
> it and yet come up with a piece of cr** that the users hate.
>
>
> >
> > Ok, so now you admit VS.NET sucks really bad as a designer tool. Let me > ask
> > you something.
> > How can any company be productive if they have no idea how the
users are > > going to interact with the program the developer wrote? How can
the > > developer test, performance tune, TRULLY debug, if they haven't
the > > slightest idea of how their program will be used?
> >
> > VS.NET needs to have in mind the single word, "PRODUCTIVITY" , not
> > "developer productivity" or "designer productivity" as what good
is a > > program written by a developer that has to be totally rewritten to how the
> > user is going to use it.
> >
> > THE NUMBER #1 problem and reason for project failures is COMMUNICATION > > between the developer and the client. Developers say, "It wasn't
in the > > spec! It wasn't in the spec!" Client's say, "but don't you know??
don't > you
> > know??"
> >
> > Now, what's the solution here? Learn more OOP, UML, n-Tier to be more > > flexible? How about refactoring and some design patterns for even
better
> > design? Let's buy every single Apress and Wrox book you can find and read
> > those. yes!!!......that will solve everything......
> >
> > NO, THE PROBLEM is that DEVELOPERS are TOO CLUELESS to KNOW what
to > develop
> > in the first place!!!! AND they NEVER ASK in detail what need to
be made > and
> > WHY they are making it!!!!!!!!
> >
> > It's amazing, these DEVELOPERS and MVP and RD's and Program
Managers go to
> > non-OOP programmers and VB6 programmers and anything below their skill > level
> > and say, "IT'S just TOOL and YOU NEED TO LEARN it like anything else". > >
> > ***
> > YET, these very SAME DEVELOPERS are NOT EVEN willing to lift a FINGER to > > L.E.A.R.N. a little bit about the "BUSINESS", UI, DESIGN and what
the > > customer wants in the first place.
> > ***
> >
> > Again, in the words of MISTER BILL, ".NET is SLOW GOING"....I
wonder > > WHY!!!!!
> >
> >
> > Ah yes, the GREAT DIVIDE...I guess abstraction will make
everything > > better!!!! HA HA HA HA....I can already see the results of
abstraction in
> > the n-Tier..more failed IT projects than successess.
> >
> > It's amazing!!! these System and Application Architects are SOooo
> > ABSTRACTED, it's no wonder why they have NO idea what the customer
wants > and
> > why their app is soooo slow........but wait, the app is never
delivered on
> > time anyway.....so we have no idea if it's slow to begin with as they are
> > are still in the "design phase of OOP"
> >
> > ************************************************** *
> > OH, and by the WAY, COMDEX floor space is now 150,000 sqft.. down from > > 875,000 sqft. in the 1990s. And ATTENDANCE is 50,000...half of
what it > had
> > last year......
> > http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,4149,1381579,00.asp
> > ************************************************** *
> >
> >
> > Wow, a single HomeDepot or Super Walmart could have more customers... > >
> >
> > Any, REPEAT ANY, MVP, programmer, developer, author, IT person who
says > that
> > what they are doing is making customers happy is simply in denial
of their
> > failures.
> >
> >
> > Cheers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>
You know you need to try a LOT harder to discredit me......
To bad your nose is still buried in your n-Tier and OOP books and articles
and "example" code....
I could easily bring up a few points in the past were everyone of you MVP's
and gurus thought I was a complete idiot screeming off the top of my lungs
how the current architecture or feature, or missing feature was stupid, yet
only to be validated years later......
If I were you, I would be very quiet, otherwise you would have to have a
good portion of humble pie.
"Bob Lehmann" <none> wrote in message
news:%2****************@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl... You must be very proud of him!
Bob Lehmann
"NRGeti" <ng***@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:1g*********************@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.n et... Nah! I am his pop. Anyway it sense to me on this issue.
"Bob Lehmann" <none> wrote in message
news:OG**************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl... So, you must be nospam's mom, I guess?
Bob Lehmann
"NRGeti" <ng***@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:PW******************@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net. ..
> This is an excellent reply. I agree. Your comments actually apply across the
> board for all kinds of programming. I never could understand how anyone who
> knows how to write code but has no clue to business processes and
user > behavior can ever come up with a working, useful system.
>
> I have seen brilliant people who could recite the entire programming
manual
> page for page and write reams of code without ever printing it out
to check
> it and yet come up with a piece of cr** that the users hate.
>
>
> >
> > Ok, so now you admit VS.NET sucks really bad as a designer tool. Let me > ask
> > you something.
> > How can any company be productive if they have no idea how the
users are > > going to interact with the program the developer wrote? How can
the > > developer test, performance tune, TRULLY debug, if they haven't
the > > slightest idea of how their program will be used?
> >
> > VS.NET needs to have in mind the single word, "PRODUCTIVITY" , not
> > "developer productivity" or "designer productivity" as what good
is a > > program written by a developer that has to be totally rewritten to how the
> > user is going to use it.
> >
> > THE NUMBER #1 problem and reason for project failures is COMMUNICATION > > between the developer and the client. Developers say, "It wasn't
in the > > spec! It wasn't in the spec!" Client's say, "but don't you know??
don't > you
> > know??"
> >
> > Now, what's the solution here? Learn more OOP, UML, n-Tier to be more > > flexible? How about refactoring and some design patterns for even
better
> > design? Let's buy every single Apress and Wrox book you can find and read
> > those. yes!!!......that will solve everything......
> >
> > NO, THE PROBLEM is that DEVELOPERS are TOO CLUELESS to KNOW what
to > develop
> > in the first place!!!! AND they NEVER ASK in detail what need to
be made > and
> > WHY they are making it!!!!!!!!
> >
> > It's amazing, these DEVELOPERS and MVP and RD's and Program
Managers go to
> > non-OOP programmers and VB6 programmers and anything below their skill > level
> > and say, "IT'S just TOOL and YOU NEED TO LEARN it like anything else". > >
> > ***
> > YET, these very SAME DEVELOPERS are NOT EVEN willing to lift a FINGER to > > L.E.A.R.N. a little bit about the "BUSINESS", UI, DESIGN and what
the > > customer wants in the first place.
> > ***
> >
> > Again, in the words of MISTER BILL, ".NET is SLOW GOING"....I
wonder > > WHY!!!!!
> >
> >
> > Ah yes, the GREAT DIVIDE...I guess abstraction will make
everything > > better!!!! HA HA HA HA....I can already see the results of
abstraction in
> > the n-Tier..more failed IT projects than successess.
> >
> > It's amazing!!! these System and Application Architects are SOooo
> > ABSTRACTED, it's no wonder why they have NO idea what the customer
wants > and
> > why their app is soooo slow........but wait, the app is never
delivered on
> > time anyway.....so we have no idea if it's slow to begin with as they are
> > are still in the "design phase of OOP"
> >
> > ************************************************** *
> > OH, and by the WAY, COMDEX floor space is now 150,000 sqft.. down from > > 875,000 sqft. in the 1990s. And ATTENDANCE is 50,000...half of
what it > had
> > last year......
> > http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,4149,1381579,00.asp
> > ************************************************** *
> >
> >
> > Wow, a single HomeDepot or Super Walmart could have more customers... > >
> >
> > Any, REPEAT ANY, MVP, programmer, developer, author, IT person who
says > that
> > what they are doing is making customers happy is simply in denial
of their
> > failures.
> >
> >
> > Cheers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>
On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 13:38:18 -0600, "nospam" <n@ntspam.com> wrote: You know you need to try a LOT harder to discredit me......
<snip>
Actually, no. You do an adequate job of that all by yourself.
Oz
On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 13:38:18 -0600, "nospam" <n@ntspam.com> wrote: You know you need to try a LOT harder to discredit me......
<snip>
Actually, no. You do an adequate job of that all by yourself.
Oz
Maybe it's the "screeming" that makes people think you are a complete idiot.
Bob
"nospam" <n@ntspam.com> wrote in message
news:#3*************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl... You know you need to try a LOT harder to discredit me......
To bad your nose is still buried in your n-Tier and OOP books and articles
and "example" code....
I could easily bring up a few points in the past were everyone of you
MVP's and gurus thought I was a complete idiot screeming off the top of my lungs
how the current architecture or feature, or missing feature was stupid,
yet only to be validated years later......
If I were you, I would be very quiet, otherwise you would have to have a
good portion of humble pie.
"Bob Lehmann" <none> wrote in message
news:%2****************@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl... You must be very proud of him!
Bob Lehmann
"NRGeti" <ng***@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:1g*********************@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.n et... Nah! I am his pop. Anyway it sense to me on this issue.
"Bob Lehmann" <none> wrote in message
news:OG**************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> So, you must be nospam's mom, I guess?
>
> Bob Lehmann
>
> "NRGeti" <ng***@optonline.net> wrote in message
> news:PW******************@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net. ..
> > This is an excellent reply. I agree. Your comments actually apply across > the
> > board for all kinds of programming. I never could understand how
anyone > who
> > knows how to write code but has no clue to business processes and user > > behavior can ever come up with a working, useful system.
> >
> > I have seen brilliant people who could recite the entire
programming > manual
> > page for page and write reams of code without ever printing it out to > check
> > it and yet come up with a piece of cr** that the users hate.
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Ok, so now you admit VS.NET sucks really bad as a designer tool.
Let me
> > ask
> > > you something.
> > > How can any company be productive if they have no idea how the users are
> > > going to interact with the program the developer wrote? How can the > > > developer test, performance tune, TRULLY debug, if they haven't the > > > slightest idea of how their program will be used?
> > >
> > > VS.NET needs to have in mind the single word, "PRODUCTIVITY" ,
not > > > "developer productivity" or "designer productivity" as what good is a > > > program written by a developer that has to be totally rewritten
to how > the
> > > user is going to use it.
> > >
> > > THE NUMBER #1 problem and reason for project failures is
COMMUNICATION > > > between the developer and the client. Developers say, "It wasn't in the
> > > spec! It wasn't in the spec!" Client's say, "but don't you
know?? don't
> > you
> > > know??"
> > >
> > > Now, what's the solution here? Learn more OOP, UML, n-Tier to be
more > > > flexible? How about refactoring and some design patterns for
even > better
> > > design? Let's buy every single Apress and Wrox book you can
find and > read
> > > those. yes!!!......that will solve everything......
> > >
> > > NO, THE PROBLEM is that DEVELOPERS are TOO CLUELESS to KNOW what to > > develop
> > > in the first place!!!! AND they NEVER ASK in detail what need to be made
> > and
> > > WHY they are making it!!!!!!!!
> > >
> > > It's amazing, these DEVELOPERS and MVP and RD's and Program Managers go
> to
> > > non-OOP programmers and VB6 programmers and anything below their
skill > > level
> > > and say, "IT'S just TOOL and YOU NEED TO LEARN it like anything
else". > > >
> > > ***
> > > YET, these very SAME DEVELOPERS are NOT EVEN willing to lift a
FINGER to
> > > L.E.A.R.N. a little bit about the "BUSINESS", UI, DESIGN and
what the > > > customer wants in the first place.
> > > ***
> > >
> > > Again, in the words of MISTER BILL, ".NET is SLOW GOING"....I wonder > > > WHY!!!!!
> > >
> > >
> > > Ah yes, the GREAT DIVIDE...I guess abstraction will make everything > > > better!!!! HA HA HA HA....I can already see the results of
abstraction > in
> > > the n-Tier..more failed IT projects than successess.
> > >
> > > It's amazing!!! these System and Application Architects are
SOooo > > > ABSTRACTED, it's no wonder why they have NO idea what the
customer wants
> > and
> > > why their app is soooo slow........but wait, the app is never
delivered
> on
> > > time anyway.....so we have no idea if it's slow to begin with as
they > are
> > > are still in the "design phase of OOP"
> > >
> > > ************************************************** *
> > > OH, and by the WAY, COMDEX floor space is now 150,000 sqft..
down from > > > 875,000 sqft. in the 1990s. And ATTENDANCE is 50,000...half of
what it
> > had
> > > last year......
> > > http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,4149,1381579,00.asp
> > > ************************************************** *
> > >
> > >
> > > Wow, a single HomeDepot or Super Walmart could have more
customers... > > >
> > >
> > > Any, REPEAT ANY, MVP, programmer, developer, author, IT person
who says
> > that
> > > what they are doing is making customers happy is simply in
denial of > their
> > > failures.
> > >
> > >
> > > Cheers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> >
> >
>
>
Maybe it's the "screeming" that makes people think you are a complete idiot.
Bob
"nospam" <n@ntspam.com> wrote in message
news:#3*************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl... You know you need to try a LOT harder to discredit me......
To bad your nose is still buried in your n-Tier and OOP books and articles
and "example" code....
I could easily bring up a few points in the past were everyone of you
MVP's and gurus thought I was a complete idiot screeming off the top of my lungs
how the current architecture or feature, or missing feature was stupid,
yet only to be validated years later......
If I were you, I would be very quiet, otherwise you would have to have a
good portion of humble pie.
"Bob Lehmann" <none> wrote in message
news:%2****************@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl... You must be very proud of him!
Bob Lehmann
"NRGeti" <ng***@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:1g*********************@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.n et... Nah! I am his pop. Anyway it sense to me on this issue.
"Bob Lehmann" <none> wrote in message
news:OG**************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> So, you must be nospam's mom, I guess?
>
> Bob Lehmann
>
> "NRGeti" <ng***@optonline.net> wrote in message
> news:PW******************@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net. ..
> > This is an excellent reply. I agree. Your comments actually apply across > the
> > board for all kinds of programming. I never could understand how
anyone > who
> > knows how to write code but has no clue to business processes and user > > behavior can ever come up with a working, useful system.
> >
> > I have seen brilliant people who could recite the entire
programming > manual
> > page for page and write reams of code without ever printing it out to > check
> > it and yet come up with a piece of cr** that the users hate.
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Ok, so now you admit VS.NET sucks really bad as a designer tool.
Let me
> > ask
> > > you something.
> > > How can any company be productive if they have no idea how the users are
> > > going to interact with the program the developer wrote? How can the > > > developer test, performance tune, TRULLY debug, if they haven't the > > > slightest idea of how their program will be used?
> > >
> > > VS.NET needs to have in mind the single word, "PRODUCTIVITY" ,
not > > > "developer productivity" or "designer productivity" as what good is a > > > program written by a developer that has to be totally rewritten
to how > the
> > > user is going to use it.
> > >
> > > THE NUMBER #1 problem and reason for project failures is
COMMUNICATION > > > between the developer and the client. Developers say, "It wasn't in the
> > > spec! It wasn't in the spec!" Client's say, "but don't you
know?? don't
> > you
> > > know??"
> > >
> > > Now, what's the solution here? Learn more OOP, UML, n-Tier to be
more > > > flexible? How about refactoring and some design patterns for
even > better
> > > design? Let's buy every single Apress and Wrox book you can
find and > read
> > > those. yes!!!......that will solve everything......
> > >
> > > NO, THE PROBLEM is that DEVELOPERS are TOO CLUELESS to KNOW what to > > develop
> > > in the first place!!!! AND they NEVER ASK in detail what need to be made
> > and
> > > WHY they are making it!!!!!!!!
> > >
> > > It's amazing, these DEVELOPERS and MVP and RD's and Program Managers go
> to
> > > non-OOP programmers and VB6 programmers and anything below their
skill > > level
> > > and say, "IT'S just TOOL and YOU NEED TO LEARN it like anything
else". > > >
> > > ***
> > > YET, these very SAME DEVELOPERS are NOT EVEN willing to lift a
FINGER to
> > > L.E.A.R.N. a little bit about the "BUSINESS", UI, DESIGN and
what the > > > customer wants in the first place.
> > > ***
> > >
> > > Again, in the words of MISTER BILL, ".NET is SLOW GOING"....I wonder > > > WHY!!!!!
> > >
> > >
> > > Ah yes, the GREAT DIVIDE...I guess abstraction will make everything > > > better!!!! HA HA HA HA....I can already see the results of
abstraction > in
> > > the n-Tier..more failed IT projects than successess.
> > >
> > > It's amazing!!! these System and Application Architects are
SOooo > > > ABSTRACTED, it's no wonder why they have NO idea what the
customer wants
> > and
> > > why their app is soooo slow........but wait, the app is never
delivered
> on
> > > time anyway.....so we have no idea if it's slow to begin with as
they > are
> > > are still in the "design phase of OOP"
> > >
> > > ************************************************** *
> > > OH, and by the WAY, COMDEX floor space is now 150,000 sqft..
down from > > > 875,000 sqft. in the 1990s. And ATTENDANCE is 50,000...half of
what it
> > had
> > > last year......
> > > http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,4149,1381579,00.asp
> > > ************************************************** *
> > >
> > >
> > > Wow, a single HomeDepot or Super Walmart could have more
customers... > > >
> > >
> > > Any, REPEAT ANY, MVP, programmer, developer, author, IT person
who says
> > that
> > > what they are doing is making customers happy is simply in
denial of > their
> > > failures.
> > >
> > >
> > > Cheers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> >
> >
>
>
The screaming is needed because I am trying to knock some sense into
programmers who act like 14-year olds when they are proven WRONG.
Dear .NET Gurus, Authors, MVP's, MCSD, Programmers, Developers, Architects,
etc.,
You are some of the most arrogant people in the world and deserve to be
treated as an upset 14-year old as that's essentially what you have been
acting like. You have no CLUE how a real business works NOR even know what
the customer wants while cramming your noses in more OOP, n-Tier books and
articles that have more failed implementations than successes. But you
don't even know that because you still think you are right just like that
14-year old who hasn't grown up and learned to admit his mistakes.
WHY YES, SCREAMING (FULL CAPS) is necessary to get through all the NOISE of
EXCUSES you guys are spouting and spinning off everyday when something goes
wrong that you try to blame others on. FULL CAPS are NECESSARY as
Programmers stop reading when they are proven wrong and spout off their
rhetoric.
Now who is the 14-year old idiot you are trying to dis-credit?
"Bob Lehmann" <none> wrote in message
news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl... Maybe it's the "screeming" that makes people think you are a complete
idiot.
Bob
"nospam" <n@ntspam.com> wrote in message
news:#3*************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl... You know you need to try a LOT harder to discredit me......
To bad your nose is still buried in your n-Tier and OOP books and
articles and "example" code....
I could easily bring up a few points in the past were everyone of you MVP's and gurus thought I was a complete idiot screeming off the top of my
lungs how the current architecture or feature, or missing feature was stupid,
yet only to be validated years later......
If I were you, I would be very quiet, otherwise you would have to have a
good portion of humble pie.
"Bob Lehmann" <none> wrote in message
news:%2****************@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl... You must be very proud of him!
Bob Lehmann
"NRGeti" <ng***@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:1g*********************@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.n et...
> Nah! I am his pop. Anyway it sense to me on this issue.
>
> "Bob Lehmann" <none> wrote in message
> news:OG**************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> > So, you must be nospam's mom, I guess?
> >
> > Bob Lehmann
> >
> > "NRGeti" <ng***@optonline.net> wrote in message
> > news:PW******************@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net. ..
> > > This is an excellent reply. I agree. Your comments actually
apply across
> > the
> > > board for all kinds of programming. I never could understand how
anyone
> > who
> > > knows how to write code but has no clue to business processes
and user > > > behavior can ever come up with a working, useful system.
> > >
> > > I have seen brilliant people who could recite the entire programming > > manual
> > > page for page and write reams of code without ever printing it
out to > > check
> > > it and yet come up with a piece of cr** that the users hate.
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Ok, so now you admit VS.NET sucks really bad as a designer
tool. Let
> me
> > > ask
> > > > you something.
> > > > How can any company be productive if they have no idea how the
users > are
> > > > going to interact with the program the developer wrote? How
can the > > > > developer test, performance tune, TRULLY debug, if they
haven't the > > > > slightest idea of how their program will be used?
> > > >
> > > > VS.NET needs to have in mind the single word, "PRODUCTIVITY" , not > > > > "developer productivity" or "designer productivity" as what
good is a
> > > > program written by a developer that has to be totally
rewritten to how
> > the
> > > > user is going to use it.
> > > >
> > > > THE NUMBER #1 problem and reason for project failures is
COMMUNICATION
> > > > between the developer and the client. Developers say, "It
wasn't in > the
> > > > spec! It wasn't in the spec!" Client's say, "but don't you know?? > don't
> > > you
> > > > know??"
> > > >
> > > > Now, what's the solution here? Learn more OOP, UML, n-Tier to
be more
> > > > flexible? How about refactoring and some design patterns for
even > > better
> > > > design? Let's buy every single Apress and Wrox book you can find and
> > read
> > > > those. yes!!!......that will solve everything......
> > > >
> > > > NO, THE PROBLEM is that DEVELOPERS are TOO CLUELESS to KNOW
what to > > > develop
> > > > in the first place!!!! AND they NEVER ASK in detail what need
to be > made
> > > and
> > > > WHY they are making it!!!!!!!!
> > > >
> > > > It's amazing, these DEVELOPERS and MVP and RD's and Program
Managers > go
> > to
> > > > non-OOP programmers and VB6 programmers and anything below
their skill
> > > level
> > > > and say, "IT'S just TOOL and YOU NEED TO LEARN it like
anything else".
> > > >
> > > > ***
> > > > YET, these very SAME DEVELOPERS are NOT EVEN willing to lift a
FINGER
> to
> > > > L.E.A.R.N. a little bit about the "BUSINESS", UI, DESIGN and
what the
> > > > customer wants in the first place.
> > > > ***
> > > >
> > > > Again, in the words of MISTER BILL, ".NET is SLOW GOING"....I
wonder > > > > WHY!!!!!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Ah yes, the GREAT DIVIDE...I guess abstraction will make
everything > > > > better!!!! HA HA HA HA....I can already see the results of
abstraction
> > in
> > > > the n-Tier..more failed IT projects than successess.
> > > >
> > > > It's amazing!!! these System and Application Architects are SOooo > > > > ABSTRACTED, it's no wonder why they have NO idea what the customer > wants
> > > and
> > > > why their app is soooo slow........but wait, the app is never
> delivered
> > on
> > > > time anyway.....so we have no idea if it's slow to begin with
as they
> > are
> > > > are still in the "design phase of OOP"
> > > >
> > > > ************************************************** *
> > > > OH, and by the WAY, COMDEX floor space is now 150,000 sqft.. down from
> > > > 875,000 sqft. in the 1990s. And ATTENDANCE is 50,000...half
of what > it
> > > had
> > > > last year......
> > > > http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,4149,1381579,00.asp
> > > > ************************************************** *
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Wow, a single HomeDepot or Super Walmart could have more
customers...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Any, REPEAT ANY, MVP, programmer, developer, author, IT person
who > says
> > > that
> > > > what they are doing is making customers happy is simply in
denial of > > their
> > > > failures.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Cheers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
The screaming is needed because I am trying to knock some sense into
programmers who act like 14-year olds when they are proven WRONG.
Dear .NET Gurus, Authors, MVP's, MCSD, Programmers, Developers, Architects,
etc.,
You are some of the most arrogant people in the world and deserve to be
treated as an upset 14-year old as that's essentially what you have been
acting like. You have no CLUE how a real business works NOR even know what
the customer wants while cramming your noses in more OOP, n-Tier books and
articles that have more failed implementations than successes. But you
don't even know that because you still think you are right just like that
14-year old who hasn't grown up and learned to admit his mistakes.
WHY YES, SCREAMING (FULL CAPS) is necessary to get through all the NOISE of
EXCUSES you guys are spouting and spinning off everyday when something goes
wrong that you try to blame others on. FULL CAPS are NECESSARY as
Programmers stop reading when they are proven wrong and spout off their
rhetoric.
Now who is the 14-year old idiot you are trying to dis-credit?
"Bob Lehmann" <none> wrote in message
news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl... Maybe it's the "screeming" that makes people think you are a complete
idiot.
Bob
"nospam" <n@ntspam.com> wrote in message
news:#3*************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl... You know you need to try a LOT harder to discredit me......
To bad your nose is still buried in your n-Tier and OOP books and
articles and "example" code....
I could easily bring up a few points in the past were everyone of you MVP's and gurus thought I was a complete idiot screeming off the top of my
lungs how the current architecture or feature, or missing feature was stupid,
yet only to be validated years later......
If I were you, I would be very quiet, otherwise you would have to have a
good portion of humble pie.
"Bob Lehmann" <none> wrote in message
news:%2****************@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl... You must be very proud of him!
Bob Lehmann
"NRGeti" <ng***@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:1g*********************@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.n et...
> Nah! I am his pop. Anyway it sense to me on this issue.
>
> "Bob Lehmann" <none> wrote in message
> news:OG**************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> > So, you must be nospam's mom, I guess?
> >
> > Bob Lehmann
> >
> > "NRGeti" <ng***@optonline.net> wrote in message
> > news:PW******************@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net. ..
> > > This is an excellent reply. I agree. Your comments actually
apply across
> > the
> > > board for all kinds of programming. I never could understand how
anyone
> > who
> > > knows how to write code but has no clue to business processes
and user > > > behavior can ever come up with a working, useful system.
> > >
> > > I have seen brilliant people who could recite the entire programming > > manual
> > > page for page and write reams of code without ever printing it
out to > > check
> > > it and yet come up with a piece of cr** that the users hate.
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Ok, so now you admit VS.NET sucks really bad as a designer
tool. Let
> me
> > > ask
> > > > you something.
> > > > How can any company be productive if they have no idea how the
users > are
> > > > going to interact with the program the developer wrote? How
can the > > > > developer test, performance tune, TRULLY debug, if they
haven't the > > > > slightest idea of how their program will be used?
> > > >
> > > > VS.NET needs to have in mind the single word, "PRODUCTIVITY" , not > > > > "developer productivity" or "designer productivity" as what
good is a
> > > > program written by a developer that has to be totally
rewritten to how
> > the
> > > > user is going to use it.
> > > >
> > > > THE NUMBER #1 problem and reason for project failures is
COMMUNICATION
> > > > between the developer and the client. Developers say, "It
wasn't in > the
> > > > spec! It wasn't in the spec!" Client's say, "but don't you know?? > don't
> > > you
> > > > know??"
> > > >
> > > > Now, what's the solution here? Learn more OOP, UML, n-Tier to
be more
> > > > flexible? How about refactoring and some design patterns for
even > > better
> > > > design? Let's buy every single Apress and Wrox book you can find and
> > read
> > > > those. yes!!!......that will solve everything......
> > > >
> > > > NO, THE PROBLEM is that DEVELOPERS are TOO CLUELESS to KNOW
what to > > > develop
> > > > in the first place!!!! AND they NEVER ASK in detail what need
to be > made
> > > and
> > > > WHY they are making it!!!!!!!!
> > > >
> > > > It's amazing, these DEVELOPERS and MVP and RD's and Program
Managers > go
> > to
> > > > non-OOP programmers and VB6 programmers and anything below
their skill
> > > level
> > > > and say, "IT'S just TOOL and YOU NEED TO LEARN it like
anything else".
> > > >
> > > > ***
> > > > YET, these very SAME DEVELOPERS are NOT EVEN willing to lift a
FINGER
> to
> > > > L.E.A.R.N. a little bit about the "BUSINESS", UI, DESIGN and
what the
> > > > customer wants in the first place.
> > > > ***
> > > >
> > > > Again, in the words of MISTER BILL, ".NET is SLOW GOING"....I
wonder > > > > WHY!!!!!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Ah yes, the GREAT DIVIDE...I guess abstraction will make
everything > > > > better!!!! HA HA HA HA....I can already see the results of
abstraction
> > in
> > > > the n-Tier..more failed IT projects than successess.
> > > >
> > > > It's amazing!!! these System and Application Architects are SOooo > > > > ABSTRACTED, it's no wonder why they have NO idea what the customer > wants
> > > and
> > > > why their app is soooo slow........but wait, the app is never
> delivered
> > on
> > > > time anyway.....so we have no idea if it's slow to begin with
as they
> > are
> > > > are still in the "design phase of OOP"
> > > >
> > > > ************************************************** *
> > > > OH, and by the WAY, COMDEX floor space is now 150,000 sqft.. down from
> > > > 875,000 sqft. in the 1990s. And ATTENDANCE is 50,000...half
of what > it
> > > had
> > > > last year......
> > > > http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,4149,1381579,00.asp
> > > > ************************************************** *
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Wow, a single HomeDepot or Super Walmart could have more
customers...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Any, REPEAT ANY, MVP, programmer, developer, author, IT person
who > says
> > > that
> > > > what they are doing is making customers happy is simply in
denial of > > their
> > > > failures.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Cheers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Hi Nospam,
I dont know from which country you are, in my country people from 12 talk
like this.
Cor
You are some of the most arrogant people in the world and deserve to be
treated as an upset 14-year old as that's essentially what you have been
acting like. You have no CLUE how a real business works NOR even know
what the customer wants while cramming your noses in more OOP, n-Tier books and
articles that have more failed implementations than successes. But you
don't even know that because you still think you are right just like that
14-year old who hasn't grown up and learned to admit his mistakes.
WHY YES, SCREAMING (FULL CAPS) is necessary to get through all the NOISE
of EXCUSES you guys are spouting and spinning off everyday when something
goes wrong that you try to blame others on. FULL CAPS are NECESSARY as
Programmers stop reading when they are proven wrong and spout off their
rhetoric.
Now who is the 14-year old idiot you are trying to dis-credit?
Hi Nospam,
I dont know from which country you are, in my country people from 12 talk
like this.
Cor
You are some of the most arrogant people in the world and deserve to be
treated as an upset 14-year old as that's essentially what you have been
acting like. You have no CLUE how a real business works NOR even know
what the customer wants while cramming your noses in more OOP, n-Tier books and
articles that have more failed implementations than successes. But you
don't even know that because you still think you are right just like that
14-year old who hasn't grown up and learned to admit his mistakes.
WHY YES, SCREAMING (FULL CAPS) is necessary to get through all the NOISE
of EXCUSES you guys are spouting and spinning off everyday when something
goes wrong that you try to blame others on. FULL CAPS are NECESSARY as
Programmers stop reading when they are proven wrong and spout off their
rhetoric.
Now who is the 14-year old idiot you are trying to dis-credit?
Wow dude, Try Decaff or a nap. And to think, I thought I was an ass.
Blanket statements are almost always a sign of a lack of knowledge or
wisdom.
And Welcome to the blocked list,
B-Bye
"nospam" <n@ntspam.com> wrote in message
news:%2****************@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl... The screaming is needed because I am trying to knock some sense into
programmers who act like 14-year olds when they are proven WRONG.
Dear .NET Gurus, Authors, MVP's, MCSD, Programmers, Developers,
Architects, etc.,
You are some of the most arrogant people in the world and deserve to be
treated as an upset 14-year old as that's essentially what you have been
acting like. You have no CLUE how a real business works NOR even know
what the customer wants while cramming your noses in more OOP, n-Tier books and
articles that have more failed implementations than successes. But you
don't even know that because you still think you are right just like that
14-year old who hasn't grown up and learned to admit his mistakes.
WHY YES, SCREAMING (FULL CAPS) is necessary to get through all the NOISE
of EXCUSES you guys are spouting and spinning off everyday when something
goes wrong that you try to blame others on. FULL CAPS are NECESSARY as
Programmers stop reading when they are proven wrong and spout off their
rhetoric.
Now who is the 14-year old idiot you are trying to dis-credit?
"Bob Lehmann" <none> wrote in message
news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl... Maybe it's the "screeming" that makes people think you are a complete idiot.
Bob
"nospam" <n@ntspam.com> wrote in message
news:#3*************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl... You know you need to try a LOT harder to discredit me......
To bad your nose is still buried in your n-Tier and OOP books and articles and "example" code....
I could easily bring up a few points in the past were everyone of you
MVP's and gurus thought I was a complete idiot screeming off the top of my lungs how the current architecture or feature, or missing feature was
stupid, yet only to be validated years later......
If I were you, I would be very quiet, otherwise you would have to have
a good portion of humble pie.
"Bob Lehmann" <none> wrote in message
news:%2****************@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> You must be very proud of him!
>
> Bob Lehmann
>
> "NRGeti" <ng***@optonline.net> wrote in message
> news:1g*********************@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.n et...
> > Nah! I am his pop. Anyway it sense to me on this issue.
> >
> > "Bob Lehmann" <none> wrote in message
> > news:OG**************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> > > So, you must be nospam's mom, I guess?
> > >
> > > Bob Lehmann
> > >
> > > "NRGeti" <ng***@optonline.net> wrote in message
> > > news:PW******************@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net. ..
> > > > This is an excellent reply. I agree. Your comments actually apply > across
> > > the
> > > > board for all kinds of programming. I never could understand
how > anyone
> > > who
> > > > knows how to write code but has no clue to business processes and user
> > > > behavior can ever come up with a working, useful system.
> > > >
> > > > I have seen brilliant people who could recite the entire
programming > > > manual
> > > > page for page and write reams of code without ever printing it out to
> > > check
> > > > it and yet come up with a piece of cr** that the users hate.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Ok, so now you admit VS.NET sucks really bad as a designer tool. > Let
> > me
> > > > ask
> > > > > you something.
> > > > > How can any company be productive if they have no idea how
the users
> > are
> > > > > going to interact with the program the developer wrote? How can the
> > > > > developer test, performance tune, TRULLY debug, if they haven't the
> > > > > slightest idea of how their program will be used?
> > > > >
> > > > > VS.NET needs to have in mind the single word, "PRODUCTIVITY"
, not > > > > > "developer productivity" or "designer productivity" as what good is
> a
> > > > > program written by a developer that has to be totally rewritten to > how
> > > the
> > > > > user is going to use it.
> > > > >
> > > > > THE NUMBER #1 problem and reason for project failures is
> COMMUNICATION
> > > > > between the developer and the client. Developers say, "It wasn't in
> > the
> > > > > spec! It wasn't in the spec!" Client's say, "but don't you
know?? > > don't
> > > > you
> > > > > know??"
> > > > >
> > > > > Now, what's the solution here? Learn more OOP, UML, n-Tier
to be > more
> > > > > flexible? How about refactoring and some design patterns
for even > > > better
> > > > > design? Let's buy every single Apress and Wrox book you can find > and
> > > read
> > > > > those. yes!!!......that will solve everything......
> > > > >
> > > > > NO, THE PROBLEM is that DEVELOPERS are TOO CLUELESS to KNOW what to
> > > > develop
> > > > > in the first place!!!! AND they NEVER ASK in detail what
need to be
> > made
> > > > and
> > > > > WHY they are making it!!!!!!!!
> > > > >
> > > > > It's amazing, these DEVELOPERS and MVP and RD's and Program
Managers
> > go
> > > to
> > > > > non-OOP programmers and VB6 programmers and anything below their > skill
> > > > level
> > > > > and say, "IT'S just TOOL and YOU NEED TO LEARN it like anything > else".
> > > > >
> > > > > ***
> > > > > YET, these very SAME DEVELOPERS are NOT EVEN willing to lift
a > FINGER
> > to
> > > > > L.E.A.R.N. a little bit about the "BUSINESS", UI, DESIGN and what > the
> > > > > customer wants in the first place.
> > > > > ***
> > > > >
> > > > > Again, in the words of MISTER BILL, ".NET is SLOW
GOING"....I wonder
> > > > > WHY!!!!!
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Ah yes, the GREAT DIVIDE...I guess abstraction will make
everything
> > > > > better!!!! HA HA HA HA....I can already see the results of
> abstraction
> > > in
> > > > > the n-Tier..more failed IT projects than successess.
> > > > >
> > > > > It's amazing!!! these System and Application Architects are
SOooo > > > > > ABSTRACTED, it's no wonder why they have NO idea what the
customer > > wants
> > > > and
> > > > > why their app is soooo slow........but wait, the app is
never > > delivered
> > > on
> > > > > time anyway.....so we have no idea if it's slow to begin
with as > they
> > > are
> > > > > are still in the "design phase of OOP"
> > > > >
> > > > > ************************************************** *
> > > > > OH, and by the WAY, COMDEX floor space is now 150,000 sqft..
down > from
> > > > > 875,000 sqft. in the 1990s. And ATTENDANCE is 50,000...half of what
> > it
> > > > had
> > > > > last year......
> > > > > http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,4149,1381579,00.asp
> > > > > ************************************************** *
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Wow, a single HomeDepot or Super Walmart could have more
> customers...
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Any, REPEAT ANY, MVP, programmer, developer, author, IT
person who > > says
> > > > that
> > > > > what they are doing is making customers happy is simply in
denial of
> > > their
> > > > > failures.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Cheers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Wow dude, Try Decaff or a nap. And to think, I thought I was an ass.
Blanket statements are almost always a sign of a lack of knowledge or
wisdom.
And Welcome to the blocked list,
B-Bye
"nospam" <n@ntspam.com> wrote in message
news:%2****************@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl... The screaming is needed because I am trying to knock some sense into
programmers who act like 14-year olds when they are proven WRONG.
Dear .NET Gurus, Authors, MVP's, MCSD, Programmers, Developers,
Architects, etc.,
You are some of the most arrogant people in the world and deserve to be
treated as an upset 14-year old as that's essentially what you have been
acting like. You have no CLUE how a real business works NOR even know
what the customer wants while cramming your noses in more OOP, n-Tier books and
articles that have more failed implementations than successes. But you
don't even know that because you still think you are right just like that
14-year old who hasn't grown up and learned to admit his mistakes.
WHY YES, SCREAMING (FULL CAPS) is necessary to get through all the NOISE
of EXCUSES you guys are spouting and spinning off everyday when something
goes wrong that you try to blame others on. FULL CAPS are NECESSARY as
Programmers stop reading when they are proven wrong and spout off their
rhetoric.
Now who is the 14-year old idiot you are trying to dis-credit?
"Bob Lehmann" <none> wrote in message
news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl... Maybe it's the "screeming" that makes people think you are a complete idiot.
Bob
"nospam" <n@ntspam.com> wrote in message
news:#3*************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl... You know you need to try a LOT harder to discredit me......
To bad your nose is still buried in your n-Tier and OOP books and articles and "example" code....
I could easily bring up a few points in the past were everyone of you
MVP's and gurus thought I was a complete idiot screeming off the top of my lungs how the current architecture or feature, or missing feature was
stupid, yet only to be validated years later......
If I were you, I would be very quiet, otherwise you would have to have
a good portion of humble pie.
"Bob Lehmann" <none> wrote in message
news:%2****************@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> You must be very proud of him!
>
> Bob Lehmann
>
> "NRGeti" <ng***@optonline.net> wrote in message
> news:1g*********************@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.n et...
> > Nah! I am his pop. Anyway it sense to me on this issue.
> >
> > "Bob Lehmann" <none> wrote in message
> > news:OG**************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> > > So, you must be nospam's mom, I guess?
> > >
> > > Bob Lehmann
> > >
> > > "NRGeti" <ng***@optonline.net> wrote in message
> > > news:PW******************@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net. ..
> > > > This is an excellent reply. I agree. Your comments actually apply > across
> > > the
> > > > board for all kinds of programming. I never could understand
how > anyone
> > > who
> > > > knows how to write code but has no clue to business processes and user
> > > > behavior can ever come up with a working, useful system.
> > > >
> > > > I have seen brilliant people who could recite the entire
programming > > > manual
> > > > page for page and write reams of code without ever printing it out to
> > > check
> > > > it and yet come up with a piece of cr** that the users hate.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Ok, so now you admit VS.NET sucks really bad as a designer tool. > Let
> > me
> > > > ask
> > > > > you something.
> > > > > How can any company be productive if they have no idea how
the users
> > are
> > > > > going to interact with the program the developer wrote? How can the
> > > > > developer test, performance tune, TRULLY debug, if they haven't the
> > > > > slightest idea of how their program will be used?
> > > > >
> > > > > VS.NET needs to have in mind the single word, "PRODUCTIVITY"
, not > > > > > "developer productivity" or "designer productivity" as what good is
> a
> > > > > program written by a developer that has to be totally rewritten to > how
> > > the
> > > > > user is going to use it.
> > > > >
> > > > > THE NUMBER #1 problem and reason for project failures is
> COMMUNICATION
> > > > > between the developer and the client. Developers say, "It wasn't in
> > the
> > > > > spec! It wasn't in the spec!" Client's say, "but don't you
know?? > > don't
> > > > you
> > > > > know??"
> > > > >
> > > > > Now, what's the solution here? Learn more OOP, UML, n-Tier
to be > more
> > > > > flexible? How about refactoring and some design patterns
for even > > > better
> > > > > design? Let's buy every single Apress and Wrox book you can find > and
> > > read
> > > > > those. yes!!!......that will solve everything......
> > > > >
> > > > > NO, THE PROBLEM is that DEVELOPERS are TOO CLUELESS to KNOW what to
> > > > develop
> > > > > in the first place!!!! AND they NEVER ASK in detail what
need to be
> > made
> > > > and
> > > > > WHY they are making it!!!!!!!!
> > > > >
> > > > > It's amazing, these DEVELOPERS and MVP and RD's and Program
Managers
> > go
> > > to
> > > > > non-OOP programmers and VB6 programmers and anything below their > skill
> > > > level
> > > > > and say, "IT'S just TOOL and YOU NEED TO LEARN it like anything > else".
> > > > >
> > > > > ***
> > > > > YET, these very SAME DEVELOPERS are NOT EVEN willing to lift
a > FINGER
> > to
> > > > > L.E.A.R.N. a little bit about the "BUSINESS", UI, DESIGN and what > the
> > > > > customer wants in the first place.
> > > > > ***
> > > > >
> > > > > Again, in the words of MISTER BILL, ".NET is SLOW
GOING"....I wonder
> > > > > WHY!!!!!
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Ah yes, the GREAT DIVIDE...I guess abstraction will make
everything
> > > > > better!!!! HA HA HA HA....I can already see the results of
> abstraction
> > > in
> > > > > the n-Tier..more failed IT projects than successess.
> > > > >
> > > > > It's amazing!!! these System and Application Architects are
SOooo > > > > > ABSTRACTED, it's no wonder why they have NO idea what the
customer > > wants
> > > > and
> > > > > why their app is soooo slow........but wait, the app is
never > > delivered
> > > on
> > > > > time anyway.....so we have no idea if it's slow to begin
with as > they
> > > are
> > > > > are still in the "design phase of OOP"
> > > > >
> > > > > ************************************************** *
> > > > > OH, and by the WAY, COMDEX floor space is now 150,000 sqft..
down > from
> > > > > 875,000 sqft. in the 1990s. And ATTENDANCE is 50,000...half of what
> > it
> > > > had
> > > > > last year......
> > > > > http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,4149,1381579,00.asp
> > > > > ************************************************** *
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Wow, a single HomeDepot or Super Walmart could have more
> customers...
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Any, REPEAT ANY, MVP, programmer, developer, author, IT
person who > > says
> > > > that
> > > > > what they are doing is making customers happy is simply in
denial of
> > > their
> > > > > failures.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Cheers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
You are one messed up little dude - even for a 14-year-old.
Bob Lehmann
"nospam" <n@ntspam.com> wrote in message
news:#k**************@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl... The screaming is needed because I am trying to knock some sense into
programmers who act like 14-year olds when they are proven WRONG.
Dear .NET Gurus, Authors, MVP's, MCSD, Programmers, Developers,
Architects, etc.,
You are some of the most arrogant people in the world and deserve to be
treated as an upset 14-year old as that's essentially what you have been
acting like. You have no CLUE how a real business works NOR even know
what the customer wants while cramming your noses in more OOP, n-Tier books and
articles that have more failed implementations than successes. But you
don't even know that because you still think you are right just like that
14-year old who hasn't grown up and learned to admit his mistakes.
WHY YES, SCREAMING (FULL CAPS) is necessary to get through all the NOISE
of EXCUSES you guys are spouting and spinning off everyday when something
goes wrong that you try to blame others on. FULL CAPS are NECESSARY as
Programmers stop reading when they are proven wrong and spout off their
rhetoric.
Now who is the 14-year old idiot you are trying to dis-credit?
"Bob Lehmann" <none> wrote in message
news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl... Maybe it's the "screeming" that makes people think you are a complete idiot.
Bob
"nospam" <n@ntspam.com> wrote in message
news:#3*************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl... You know you need to try a LOT harder to discredit me......
To bad your nose is still buried in your n-Tier and OOP books and articles and "example" code....
I could easily bring up a few points in the past were everyone of you
MVP's and gurus thought I was a complete idiot screeming off the top of my lungs how the current architecture or feature, or missing feature was
stupid, yet only to be validated years later......
If I were you, I would be very quiet, otherwise you would have to have
a good portion of humble pie.
"Bob Lehmann" <none> wrote in message
news:%2****************@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> You must be very proud of him!
>
> Bob Lehmann
>
> "NRGeti" <ng***@optonline.net> wrote in message
> news:1g*********************@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.n et...
> > Nah! I am his pop. Anyway it sense to me on this issue.
> >
> > "Bob Lehmann" <none> wrote in message
> > news:OG**************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> > > So, you must be nospam's mom, I guess?
> > >
> > > Bob Lehmann
> > >
> > > "NRGeti" <ng***@optonline.net> wrote in message
> > > news:PW******************@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net. ..
> > > > This is an excellent reply. I agree. Your comments actually apply > across
> > > the
> > > > board for all kinds of programming. I never could understand
how > anyone
> > > who
> > > > knows how to write code but has no clue to business processes and user
> > > > behavior can ever come up with a working, useful system.
> > > >
> > > > I have seen brilliant people who could recite the entire
programming > > > manual
> > > > page for page and write reams of code without ever printing it out to
> > > check
> > > > it and yet come up with a piece of cr** that the users hate.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Ok, so now you admit VS.NET sucks really bad as a designer tool. > Let
> > me
> > > > ask
> > > > > you something.
> > > > > How can any company be productive if they have no idea how
the users
> > are
> > > > > going to interact with the program the developer wrote? How can the
> > > > > developer test, performance tune, TRULLY debug, if they haven't the
> > > > > slightest idea of how their program will be used?
> > > > >
> > > > > VS.NET needs to have in mind the single word, "PRODUCTIVITY"
, not > > > > > "developer productivity" or "designer productivity" as what good is
> a
> > > > > program written by a developer that has to be totally rewritten to > how
> > > the
> > > > > user is going to use it.
> > > > >
> > > > > THE NUMBER #1 problem and reason for project failures is
> COMMUNICATION
> > > > > between the developer and the client. Developers say, "It wasn't in
> > the
> > > > > spec! It wasn't in the spec!" Client's say, "but don't you
know?? > > don't
> > > > you
> > > > > know??"
> > > > >
> > > > > Now, what's the solution here? Learn more OOP, UML, n-Tier
to be > more
> > > > > flexible? How about refactoring and some design patterns
for even > > > better
> > > > > design? Let's buy every single Apress and Wrox book you can find > and
> > > read
> > > > > those. yes!!!......that will solve everything......
> > > > >
> > > > > NO, THE PROBLEM is that DEVELOPERS are TOO CLUELESS to KNOW what to
> > > > develop
> > > > > in the first place!!!! AND they NEVER ASK in detail what
need to be
> > made
> > > > and
> > > > > WHY they are making it!!!!!!!!
> > > > >
> > > > > It's amazing, these DEVELOPERS and MVP and RD's and Program
Managers
> > go
> > > to
> > > > > non-OOP programmers and VB6 programmers and anything below their > skill
> > > > level
> > > > > and say, "IT'S just TOOL and YOU NEED TO LEARN it like anything > else".
> > > > >
> > > > > ***
> > > > > YET, these very SAME DEVELOPERS are NOT EVEN willing to lift
a > FINGER
> > to
> > > > > L.E.A.R.N. a little bit about the "BUSINESS", UI, DESIGN and what > the
> > > > > customer wants in the first place.
> > > > > ***
> > > > >
> > > > > Again, in the words of MISTER BILL, ".NET is SLOW
GOING"....I wonder
> > > > > WHY!!!!!
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Ah yes, the GREAT DIVIDE...I guess abstraction will make
everything
> > > > > better!!!! HA HA HA HA....I can already see the results of
> abstraction
> > > in
> > > > > the n-Tier..more failed IT projects than successess.
> > > > >
> > > > > It's amazing!!! these System and Application Architects are
SOooo > > > > > ABSTRACTED, it's no wonder why they have NO idea what the
customer > > wants
> > > > and
> > > > > why their app is soooo slow........but wait, the app is
never > > delivered
> > > on
> > > > > time anyway.....so we have no idea if it's slow to begin
with as > they
> > > are
> > > > > are still in the "design phase of OOP"
> > > > >
> > > > > ************************************************** *
> > > > > OH, and by the WAY, COMDEX floor space is now 150,000 sqft..
down > from
> > > > > 875,000 sqft. in the 1990s. And ATTENDANCE is 50,000...half of what
> > it
> > > > had
> > > > > last year......
> > > > > http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,4149,1381579,00.asp
> > > > > ************************************************** *
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Wow, a single HomeDepot or Super Walmart could have more
> customers...
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Any, REPEAT ANY, MVP, programmer, developer, author, IT
person who > > says
> > > > that
> > > > > what they are doing is making customers happy is simply in
denial of
> > > their
> > > > > failures.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Cheers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
You are one messed up little dude - even for a 14-year-old.
Bob Lehmann
"nospam" <n@ntspam.com> wrote in message
news:#k**************@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl... The screaming is needed because I am trying to knock some sense into
programmers who act like 14-year olds when they are proven WRONG.
Dear .NET Gurus, Authors, MVP's, MCSD, Programmers, Developers,
Architects, etc.,
You are some of the most arrogant people in the world and deserve to be
treated as an upset 14-year old as that's essentially what you have been
acting like. You have no CLUE how a real business works NOR even know
what the customer wants while cramming your noses in more OOP, n-Tier books and
articles that have more failed implementations than successes. But you
don't even know that because you still think you are right just like that
14-year old who hasn't grown up and learned to admit his mistakes.
WHY YES, SCREAMING (FULL CAPS) is necessary to get through all the NOISE
of EXCUSES you guys are spouting and spinning off everyday when something
goes wrong that you try to blame others on. FULL CAPS are NECESSARY as
Programmers stop reading when they are proven wrong and spout off their
rhetoric.
Now who is the 14-year old idiot you are trying to dis-credit?
"Bob Lehmann" <none> wrote in message
news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl... Maybe it's the "screeming" that makes people think you are a complete idiot.
Bob
"nospam" <n@ntspam.com> wrote in message
news:#3*************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl... You know you need to try a LOT harder to discredit me......
To bad your nose is still buried in your n-Tier and OOP books and articles and "example" code....
I could easily bring up a few points in the past were everyone of you
MVP's and gurus thought I was a complete idiot screeming off the top of my lungs how the current architecture or feature, or missing feature was
stupid, yet only to be validated years later......
If I were you, I would be very quiet, otherwise you would have to have
a good portion of humble pie.
"Bob Lehmann" <none> wrote in message
news:%2****************@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> You must be very proud of him!
>
> Bob Lehmann
>
> "NRGeti" <ng***@optonline.net> wrote in message
> news:1g*********************@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.n et...
> > Nah! I am his pop. Anyway it sense to me on this issue.
> >
> > "Bob Lehmann" <none> wrote in message
> > news:OG**************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> > > So, you must be nospam's mom, I guess?
> > >
> > > Bob Lehmann
> > >
> > > "NRGeti" <ng***@optonline.net> wrote in message
> > > news:PW******************@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net. ..
> > > > This is an excellent reply. I agree. Your comments actually apply > across
> > > the
> > > > board for all kinds of programming. I never could understand
how > anyone
> > > who
> > > > knows how to write code but has no clue to business processes and user
> > > > behavior can ever come up with a working, useful system.
> > > >
> > > > I have seen brilliant people who could recite the entire
programming > > > manual
> > > > page for page and write reams of code without ever printing it out to
> > > check
> > > > it and yet come up with a piece of cr** that the users hate.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Ok, so now you admit VS.NET sucks really bad as a designer tool. > Let
> > me
> > > > ask
> > > > > you something.
> > > > > How can any company be productive if they have no idea how
the users
> > are
> > > > > going to interact with the program the developer wrote? How can the
> > > > > developer test, performance tune, TRULLY debug, if they haven't the
> > > > > slightest idea of how their program will be used?
> > > > >
> > > > > VS.NET needs to have in mind the single word, "PRODUCTIVITY"
, not > > > > > "developer productivity" or "designer productivity" as what good is
> a
> > > > > program written by a developer that has to be totally rewritten to > how
> > > the
> > > > > user is going to use it.
> > > > >
> > > > > THE NUMBER #1 problem and reason for project failures is
> COMMUNICATION
> > > > > between the developer and the client. Developers say, "It wasn't in
> > the
> > > > > spec! It wasn't in the spec!" Client's say, "but don't you
know?? > > don't
> > > > you
> > > > > know??"
> > > > >
> > > > > Now, what's the solution here? Learn more OOP, UML, n-Tier
to be > more
> > > > > flexible? How about refactoring and some design patterns
for even > > > better
> > > > > design? Let's buy every single Apress and Wrox book you can find > and
> > > read
> > > > > those. yes!!!......that will solve everything......
> > > > >
> > > > > NO, THE PROBLEM is that DEVELOPERS are TOO CLUELESS to KNOW what to
> > > > develop
> > > > > in the first place!!!! AND they NEVER ASK in detail what
need to be
> > made
> > > > and
> > > > > WHY they are making it!!!!!!!!
> > > > >
> > > > > It's amazing, these DEVELOPERS and MVP and RD's and Program
Managers
> > go
> > > to
> > > > > non-OOP programmers and VB6 programmers and anything below their > skill
> > > > level
> > > > > and say, "IT'S just TOOL and YOU NEED TO LEARN it like anything > else".
> > > > >
> > > > > ***
> > > > > YET, these very SAME DEVELOPERS are NOT EVEN willing to lift
a > FINGER
> > to
> > > > > L.E.A.R.N. a little bit about the "BUSINESS", UI, DESIGN and what > the
> > > > > customer wants in the first place.
> > > > > ***
> > > > >
> > > > > Again, in the words of MISTER BILL, ".NET is SLOW
GOING"....I wonder
> > > > > WHY!!!!!
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Ah yes, the GREAT DIVIDE...I guess abstraction will make
everything
> > > > > better!!!! HA HA HA HA....I can already see the results of
> abstraction
> > > in
> > > > > the n-Tier..more failed IT projects than successess.
> > > > >
> > > > > It's amazing!!! these System and Application Architects are
SOooo > > > > > ABSTRACTED, it's no wonder why they have NO idea what the
customer > > wants
> > > > and
> > > > > why their app is soooo slow........but wait, the app is
never > > delivered
> > > on
> > > > > time anyway.....so we have no idea if it's slow to begin
with as > they
> > > are
> > > > > are still in the "design phase of OOP"
> > > > >
> > > > > ************************************************** *
> > > > > OH, and by the WAY, COMDEX floor space is now 150,000 sqft..
down > from
> > > > > 875,000 sqft. in the 1990s. And ATTENDANCE is 50,000...half of what
> > it
> > > > had
> > > > > last year......
> > > > > http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,4149,1381579,00.asp
> > > > > ************************************************** *
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Wow, a single HomeDepot or Super Walmart could have more
> customers...
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Any, REPEAT ANY, MVP, programmer, developer, author, IT
person who > > says
> > > > that
> > > > > what they are doing is making customers happy is simply in
denial of
> > > their
> > > > > failures.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Cheers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 09:59:12 -0600, "nospam" <n@ntspam.com> wrote: The screaming is needed because I am trying to knock some sense into
programmers who act like 14-year olds when they are proven WRONG.
<snip>
Don't go away mad....
Just go away.
Oz
On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 09:59:12 -0600, "nospam" <n@ntspam.com> wrote: The screaming is needed because I am trying to knock some sense into
programmers who act like 14-year olds when they are proven WRONG.
<snip>
Don't go away mad....
Just go away.
Oz http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,4149,1390957,00.asp
You know at least other technical people in other industries can say that
they produced quality products than their foreign competitors....
"software quality"...what's that mean????
Yep....the replies are just like that 14-year old who is proven WRONG...
Have a nice day......
"ozbear" <oz*****@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3fbbe1a0.133263796@news-server... On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 09:59:12 -0600, "nospam" <n@ntspam.com> wrote:
The screaming is needed because I am trying to knock some sense into
programmers who act like 14-year olds when they are proven WRONG.
<snip>
Don't go away mad....
Just go away.
Oz
"nospam" <n@ntspam.com> wrote in message
news:ei**************@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl... http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,4149,1390957,00.asp
You know at least other technical people in other industries can say that
they produced quality products than their foreign competitors....
"software quality"...what's that mean????
Yep....the replies are just like that 14-year old who is proven WRONG...
Welcome to my kill file ...
Have a nice day......
You too ...
/m
NRGeti, you are touching on some the Great Divide between Clients who only
typically have a vague idea of what they want, and developers that have to
know exactly what the Client wants.
I just ran into this problem myself in a dispute over features in a web
app... a client wanted news topics, so i built a simple news engine, based
on the money rate involved, they come back saying "Oh... but we wanted to be
able to categorize the news"... they didnt ask for that and why would I just
automatically put it in when I'm not getting paid very much in the first
place? Their retort was "but wouldn't you tell us?" How am I suppose to
read their minds? ie, "Its not in the SPECS"
The specs are a near-formal contract of what is expected between both
parties, how can we deal "at arms length" with each other if we don't even
fully know what each party wants out of the working relationship?
--
Eric Newton
C#/ASP Application Developer http://ensoft-software.com/ er**@cc.ensoft-software.com [remove the first "CC."]
"NRGeti" <ng***@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:1g*********************@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.n et... Nah! I am his pop. Anyway it sense to me on this issue.
"Bob Lehmann" <none> wrote in message
news:OG**************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl... So, you must be nospam's mom, I guess?
Bob Lehmann
"NRGeti" <ng***@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:PW******************@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net. .. This is an excellent reply. I agree. Your comments actually apply
across the board for all kinds of programming. I never could understand how
anyone who knows how to write code but has no clue to business processes and user
behavior can ever come up with a working, useful system.
I have seen brilliant people who could recite the entire programming manual page for page and write reams of code without ever printing it out to
check it and yet come up with a piece of cr** that the users hate.
>
> Ok, so now you admit VS.NET sucks really bad as a designer tool.
Let me ask
> you something.
> How can any company be productive if they have no idea how the users are > going to interact with the program the developer wrote? How can the
> developer test, performance tune, TRULLY debug, if they haven't the
> slightest idea of how their program will be used?
>
> VS.NET needs to have in mind the single word, "PRODUCTIVITY" , not
> "developer productivity" or "designer productivity" as what good is
a > program written by a developer that has to be totally rewritten to
how the > user is going to use it.
>
> THE NUMBER #1 problem and reason for project failures is
COMMUNICATION > between the developer and the client. Developers say, "It wasn't in the > spec! It wasn't in the spec!" Client's say, "but don't you know?? don't you
> know??"
>
> Now, what's the solution here? Learn more OOP, UML, n-Tier to be
more > flexible? How about refactoring and some design patterns for even
better > design? Let's buy every single Apress and Wrox book you can find
and read > those. yes!!!......that will solve everything......
>
> NO, THE PROBLEM is that DEVELOPERS are TOO CLUELESS to KNOW what to
develop
> in the first place!!!! AND they NEVER ASK in detail what need to be made and
> WHY they are making it!!!!!!!!
>
> It's amazing, these DEVELOPERS and MVP and RD's and Program Managers go to > non-OOP programmers and VB6 programmers and anything below their
skill level
> and say, "IT'S just TOOL and YOU NEED TO LEARN it like anything
else". >
> ***
> YET, these very SAME DEVELOPERS are NOT EVEN willing to lift a
FINGER to > L.E.A.R.N. a little bit about the "BUSINESS", UI, DESIGN and what
the > customer wants in the first place.
> ***
>
> Again, in the words of MISTER BILL, ".NET is SLOW GOING"....I wonder
> WHY!!!!!
>
>
> Ah yes, the GREAT DIVIDE...I guess abstraction will make everything
> better!!!! HA HA HA HA....I can already see the results of
abstraction in > the n-Tier..more failed IT projects than successess.
>
> It's amazing!!! these System and Application Architects are SOooo
> ABSTRACTED, it's no wonder why they have NO idea what the customer wants and
> why their app is soooo slow........but wait, the app is never delivered on > time anyway.....so we have no idea if it's slow to begin with as
they are > are still in the "design phase of OOP"
>
> ************************************************** *
> OH, and by the WAY, COMDEX floor space is now 150,000 sqft.. down
from > 875,000 sqft. in the 1990s. And ATTENDANCE is 50,000...half of what
it had
> last year......
> http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,4149,1381579,00.asp
> ************************************************** *
>
>
> Wow, a single HomeDepot or Super Walmart could have more
customers... >
>
> Any, REPEAT ANY, MVP, programmer, developer, author, IT person who says that
> what they are doing is making customers happy is simply in denial of
their > failures.
>
>
> Cheers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This thread has been closed and replies have been disabled. Please start a new discussion. Similar topics
by: nospam |
last post by:
I got three (3) files
(1) Untitled.aspx
(2) Untitled.aspx.1.cs
(3) Untitled.aspx.2.cs
These three files must be used together to make file #1, Untitled.aspx, page
work via
J.I.T. when the...
|
by: nospam |
last post by:
Ok, 3rd or is it the 4th time I have asked this question on Partial Types,
so, since it seems to me that Partial Types is still in the design or
development stages at Microsoft, I am going to ask...
|
by: Hystou |
last post by:
There are some requirements for setting up RAID:
1. The motherboard and BIOS support RAID configuration.
2. The motherboard has 2 or more available SATA protocol SSD/HDD slots (including MSATA, M.2...
|
by: marktang |
last post by:
ONU (Optical Network Unit) is one of the key components for providing high-speed Internet services. Its primary function is to act as an endpoint device located at the user's premises. However,...
|
by: Oralloy |
last post by:
Hello folks,
I am unable to find appropriate documentation on the type promotion of bit-fields when using the generalised comparison operator "<=>".
The problem is that using the GNU compilers,...
|
by: jinu1996 |
last post by:
In today's digital age, having a compelling online presence is paramount for businesses aiming to thrive in a competitive landscape. At the heart of this digital strategy lies an intricately woven...
|
by: tracyyun |
last post by:
Dear forum friends,
With the development of smart home technology, a variety of wireless communication protocols have appeared on the market, such as Zigbee, Z-Wave, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, etc. Each...
|
by: agi2029 |
last post by:
Let's talk about the concept of autonomous AI software engineers and no-code agents. These AIs are designed to manage the entire lifecycle of a software development project—planning, coding, testing,...
|
by: isladogs |
last post by:
The next Access Europe User Group meeting will be on Wednesday 1 May 2024 starting at 18:00 UK time (6PM UTC+1) and finishing by 19:30 (7.30PM).
In this session, we are pleased to welcome a new...
|
by: conductexam |
last post by:
I have .net C# application in which I am extracting data from word file and save it in database particularly. To store word all data as it is I am converting the whole word file firstly in HTML and...
|
by: adsilva |
last post by:
A Windows Forms form does not have the event Unload, like VB6. What one acts like?
| |
