MSDE is a COMPLETE MARKETING and LICENSING/VERSION FAILURE as ZERO PEOPLE
USE IT for anything, even development.
I have heard Gurus, .NET authors, UserGroups, .NET Evangelists, RD's and
MVP's mention it as an alternative to MySQL.
TOTAL B.S. and CLUELESSNESS on their part as well as Microsoft.
It's the developer who is going to create the database anyway and anyone who
wants to use SQL Server has got an MSDN Universal Subscription anyway. AND
then this developer has to tell his entreprenuer client the costs involved
and then they look at "alternatives" and they other non-.NET
developers...hence PHP, MySql.
These entreprenuers don't have millions of dollars and are just trying to
make it like anyone else. They are not going to pour or PUT every dollar
into their web server and database as there are OTHER things to BUY as well
in a business.....BUSINESSES do have other things to BUY and PAY for than
just SOFTWARE.
75  2326 
This is one of the BIGGEST SOFTWARE problems right here....
*****SWITCHING databases when it's really a licensing problem.******
This leads to very very low customer satisfaction regardless of who's fault
it is: dba, developer, software manufacturer, asp programmer, web designer,
whoever.
A ridiculous amount of time is spent with going from Access to SQL Server
when all one has to do is throttle back SQL Server and allow for production
licenses...that way we can have nice stored procs and better security and
less .mdb's crashing while STILL being able to cater to the start up
company, mom and pop or entrepreneur.
The Microsoft marketing department had better relook at their numbers OR
better adjust their SQL License to "better" work with the .NET Framework
counterparts....
Even Windows 2000 Server has a Web License that's AFFORDABLE.....but that's
NOT the case with SQL SERVER in a PRODUCTION ENVIRONMENT.
Hardware has GOTTEN affordable...not so with MS databases....
Dear Microsoft Marketing......look at the WHOLE picture that the
customer(mom and pop, entrepreneur, startup) has to pay for and then ask
yourself why .NET is "SLOW GOING"......every heard of TCO?
Well, what's the TCO to a Fortune 500 company?
And what's the TCO to a mom and pop, entrepreneur, or 2 person startup?
What about the TCO of "SCALING UP" for say Access to SQL Server...WHEN it
REALLY SHOULD be SQL Server "Mom-and-Pop" License to like a Standard
License.?
If I can recall correctly, least 60% of the CIO and CEO as some IT
conference were "UNSATIFIED" with software.
"nospam" <n@ntspam.com> wrote in message
news:uk**************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl... MSDE is a COMPLETE MARKETING and LICENSING/VERSION FAILURE as ZERO PEOPLE
USE IT for anything, even development.
I have heard Gurus, .NET authors, UserGroups, .NET Evangelists, RD's and
MVP's mention it as an alternative to MySQL.
TOTAL B.S. and CLUELESSNESS on their part as well as Microsoft.
It's the developer who is going to create the database anyway and anyone
who wants to use SQL Server has got an MSDN Universal Subscription anyway.
AND then this developer has to tell his entreprenuer client the costs involved
and then they look at "alternatives" and they other non-.NET
developers...hence PHP, MySql.
These entreprenuers don't have millions of dollars and are just trying to
make it like anyone else. They are not going to pour or PUT every dollar
into their web server and database as there are OTHER things to BUY as
well in a business.....BUSINESSES do have other things to BUY and PAY for than
just SOFTWARE.
"nospam" <n@ntspam.com> wrote in message
news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl... This is one of the BIGGEST SOFTWARE problems right here....
Dear nospam,
You may well be CORRECT. I have NO IDEA, as your HABIT of using CAPS
willy-nilly tends to put me off reading your POST.
Caps:- the ng equivalent of using coloured crayons
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system ( http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.516 / Virus Database: 313 - Release Date: 01/09/2003
Obviously your the one who is clueless if you think MySql can do all that
MSDE can and better. I won't get into a drawn out debate here since you are
so far off base it isn't funny. Your rants and raves don't serve any
practical purpose so I suggest you go off an play with your toy db's if they
make you happy.
--
Andrew J. Kelly
SQL Server MVP
"nospam" <n@ntspam.com> wrote in message
news:uk**************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl... MSDE is a COMPLETE MARKETING and LICENSING/VERSION FAILURE as ZERO PEOPLE
USE IT for anything, even development.
I have heard Gurus, .NET authors, UserGroups, .NET Evangelists, RD's and
MVP's mention it as an alternative to MySQL.
TOTAL B.S. and CLUELESSNESS on their part as well as Microsoft.
It's the developer who is going to create the database anyway and anyone
who wants to use SQL Server has got an MSDN Universal Subscription anyway.
AND then this developer has to tell his entreprenuer client the costs involved
and then they look at "alternatives" and they other non-.NET
developers...hence PHP, MySql.
These entreprenuers don't have millions of dollars and are just trying to
make it like anyone else. They are not going to pour or PUT every dollar
into their web server and database as there are OTHER things to BUY as
well in a business.....BUSINESSES do have other things to BUY and PAY for than
just SOFTWARE.
I use both MySQL and MSDE and at the moment, still prefer MSDE in that it
supports Stored Procs and you can use T-SQL constructs quite easily. Your
post indicates a lack of understanding about both the market and the
product, so much so, that I feel guilty even responding. It's too bad we
live in a capilatistic society where people expect to get paid for their
work, particularly those evil MS Software engineers. They don't have to
feed their families or anything, nor do they deserve compensation for all of
their hard work. Heck, newsgroup malcontents provide every bit as much of a
service as do talented engineers at Microsoft.
If they can't afford it, don't buy it. Reduced demand will shift market
prices. That's why Oracle costs a fraction of what it did during the .Com
boom. Do me a favor, I've been eying a Porsche 911 for a while, but a bit
out of my price range. Can you please send them a similar e-mail indicating
that a mom and pop's son can't afford their car and see if I can get one for
say 25k? I could sell my software services for a lot less if I could get a
25K Porsche, and then I could even cater to mom and pop's everywhere. I'd
love to see Mom and pops administering SQL Server too, that must be a lot of
fun.
BTW, which conference? What software? Why did I just waste 5 minutes
responding to this dribble? (and as the other guy mentioned, I think you
may need a new keyboard becuase I doubt anyone would be so ill mannered and
unprofessional to post in a serious newsgroup with to many words
capitailzed for emphasis).
Cheers,
Bill
"nospam" <n@ntspam.com> wrote in message
news:uk**************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl... MSDE is a COMPLETE MARKETING and LICENSING/VERSION FAILURE as ZERO PEOPLE
USE IT for anything, even development.
I have heard Gurus, .NET authors, UserGroups, .NET Evangelists, RD's and
MVP's mention it as an alternative to MySQL.
TOTAL B.S. and CLUELESSNESS on their part as well as Microsoft.
It's the developer who is going to create the database anyway and anyone
who wants to use SQL Server has got an MSDN Universal Subscription anyway.
AND then this developer has to tell his entreprenuer client the costs involved
and then they look at "alternatives" and they other non-.NET
developers...hence PHP, MySql.
These entreprenuers don't have millions of dollars and are just trying to
make it like anyone else. They are not going to pour or PUT every dollar
into their web server and database as there are OTHER things to BUY as
well in a business.....BUSINESSES do have other things to BUY and PAY for than
just SOFTWARE.
Sometimes coloured crayon are what the Microsoft marketing people understand
the best.
Sometimes "children" get TOO greedy and paranoid about their toys and forget
about what the other children go through.
"Bob Simms" <bo*******@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:QA*****************@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk... "nospam" <n@ntspam.com> wrote in message
news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl... This is one of the BIGGEST SOFTWARE problems right here....
Dear nospam,
You may well be CORRECT. I have NO IDEA, as your HABIT of using CAPS
willy-nilly tends to put me off reading your POST.
Caps:- the ng equivalent of using coloured crayons
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.516 / Virus Database: 313 - Release Date: 01/09/2003
Hi Nospam ... I have heard Gurus, .NET authors, UserGroups, .NET Evangelists, RD's and
MVP's mention it as an alternative to MySQL.
TOTAL B.S. and CLUELESSNESS on their part as well as Microsoft.
It's the developer who is going to create the database anyway and anyone
who wants to use SQL Server has got an MSDN Universal Subscription anyway.
AND then this developer has to tell his entreprenuer client the costs involved
and then they look at "alternatives" and they other non-.NET
developers...hence PHP, MySql.
Well, I'm sorry but I believe I have to tell you that MySQL is not really a
full-featured database ... well, you can put some data in it and get it out
again, but that's basically it. MSDE and SQL Server, as well as (expensive)
systems like DB2 or Oracle provide you with a lot more useful functionality
....
Btw ... PHP can only be compared with ASP.NET. But both play in different
leagues. And believe me, ASP.NET plays in a higher league than PHP
Oh, just in case you think that I'm a complete Microsoft-evangelist ... I
know PHP and MySQL pretty well and I know what I'm talking about. However,
it seems that you should first learn a bit more about database systems and
programming languages before writing stupid things like this post ...
Regards,
--
Frank Eller [.NET MVP] www.frankeller.de
..NET Developers Group Munich- www.munichdot.net
The only reason this guy isn't on my killfilter already is his posts are
funny.
As much as I hate to have to post this, I've been enjoying the last series
of posts I saw started by this guy, as they were some of the funniest things
I've seen on the groups in some time, however, he really isn't to be taken
seriously. It extols the virtues of 2-tier web architecture over n-tier
( http://tinyurl.com/nceo)
However, for anyone who doesn't find humour in unfocused, mindless ranting,
filtering these posts may be a blessing, I suspect this will get ugly.
"nospam" <n@ntspam.com> wrote in message
news:uk**************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl... MSDE is a COMPLETE MARKETING and LICENSING/VERSION FAILURE as ZERO PEOPLE
USE IT for anything, even development.
I have heard Gurus, .NET authors, UserGroups, .NET Evangelists, RD's and
MVP's mention it as an alternative to MySQL.
TOTAL B.S. and CLUELESSNESS on their part as well as Microsoft.
It's the developer who is going to create the database anyway and anyone
who wants to use SQL Server has got an MSDN Universal Subscription anyway.
AND then this developer has to tell his entreprenuer client the costs involved
and then they look at "alternatives" and they other non-.NET
developers...hence PHP, MySql.
These entreprenuers don't have millions of dollars and are just trying to
make it like anyone else. They are not going to pour or PUT every dollar
into their web server and database as there are OTHER things to BUY as
well in a business.....BUSINESSES do have other things to BUY and PAY for than
just SOFTWARE.
Don't be so stupid and arrogant Daniel....you are more than welcome to join
the other thread and be humiliated and proven wrong on every point just the
other poster. There is still a challenge out there to compare system of
2-tier versus n-Tier..... there is also no R.O.I. either....
Like I said....don't be stupid and arrogant.
"Daniel O'Connell" <on******@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:ST49b.444679$o%2.202388@sccrnsc02... The only reason this guy isn't on my killfilter already is his posts are
funny.
As much as I hate to have to post this, I've been enjoying the last series
of posts I saw started by this guy, as they were some of the funniest
things I've seen on the groups in some time, however, he really isn't to be taken
seriously. It extols the virtues of 2-tier web architecture over n-tier
(http://tinyurl.com/nceo)
However, for anyone who doesn't find humour in unfocused, mindless
ranting, filtering these posts may be a blessing, I suspect this will get ugly.
"nospam" <n@ntspam.com> wrote in message
news:uk**************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl... MSDE is a COMPLETE MARKETING and LICENSING/VERSION FAILURE as ZERO
PEOPLE USE IT for anything, even development.
I have heard Gurus, .NET authors, UserGroups, .NET Evangelists, RD's and
MVP's mention it as an alternative to MySQL.
TOTAL B.S. and CLUELESSNESS on their part as well as Microsoft.
It's the developer who is going to create the database anyway and anyone
who wants to use SQL Server has got an MSDN Universal Subscription anyway.
AND then this developer has to tell his entreprenuer client the costs
involved and then they look at "alternatives" and they other non-.NET
developers...hence PHP, MySql.
These entreprenuers don't have millions of dollars and are just trying
to make it like anyone else. They are not going to pour or PUT every
dollar into their web server and database as there are OTHER things to BUY as
well in a business.....BUSINESSES do have other things to BUY and PAY for
than just SOFTWARE.
Ah GOOD. An MVP. Well, I'm sorry but I believe I have to tell you that MySQL is not really
a full-featured database ... well, you can put some data in it and get it
out again, but that's basically it. MSDE and SQL Server, as well as
(expensive) systems like DB2 or Oracle provide you with a lot more useful
functionality
Do mom and pops need all that power of a full featured database? What about
startups?
Dear MR. MVP....don't stick you foot in your mouth.
Why offer a MSDE and ask developers to download it then and use .NET AND
then expect the developer to GET a Fortune 500 client???????
Say if they only have enough money to go SLOW in getting a site up? ..Why
should you have the developer use MS ACCESS then do a port to SQL Server
when all Microsoft has to do is make something like a mom and pop
"production" license....all an Access to SQL Server port does is COMPLETELY
WASTES everyone TIME and MONEY AND more BUGS and LOWERS CUSTOMER
SATISFACTION. SQL Server should be have a licensing program that allow for
a easy upgrade from mom and pop to successfull startup...what's so hard
about that?
Dear MR. MVP,
******There are ONLY 500 companies in the FORTUNE 500.*****
COMPRENDE??????
Next time, you should think carefully.
...
Btw ... PHP can only be compared with ASP.NET. But both play in different
leagues. And believe me, ASP.NET plays in a higher league than PHP
Oh, just in case you think that I'm a complete Microsoft-evangelist ... I
know PHP and MySQL pretty well and I know what I'm talking about. However,
it seems that you should first learn a bit more about database systems and
programming languages before writing stupid things like this post ...
Regards,
--
Frank Eller [.NET MVP]
www.frankeller.de
.NET Developers Group Munich- www.munichdot.net
I understand the market more than you do and can EASILY see the .php
extension on web sites.
I also see it on job postings and on shopping carts.
MORE COMMENTS BELOW, especially to your Porsche911
"William Ryan" <do********@nospam.comcast.net> wrote in message
news:uq*************@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl... I use both MySQL and MSDE and at the moment, still prefer MSDE in that it
supports Stored Procs and you can use T-SQL constructs quite easily. Your
post indicates a lack of understanding about both the market and the
product, so much so, that I feel guilty even responding. It's too bad we
live in a capilatistic society where people expect to get paid for their
work, particularly those evil MS Software engineers. They don't have to
feed their families or anything, nor do they deserve compensation for all
of their hard work. Heck, newsgroup malcontents provide every bit as much of
a service as do talented engineers at Microsoft.
If they can't afford it, don't buy it. Reduced demand will shift market
prices. That's why Oracle costs a fraction of what it did during the .Com
boom. Do me a favor, I've been eying a Porsche 911 for a while, but a bit
out of my price range. Can you please send them a similar e-mail
indicating that a mom and pop's son can't afford their car and see if I can get one
for say 25k? I could sell my software services for a lot less if I could get
a 25K Porsche, and then I could even cater to mom and pop's everywhere.
Could you send me a e-mail letting me know when software bugs will end my
Porsche911 doesn't break down on the road you know each week like your
software does?
How about another e-mail when I don't have to constantly upgrade my software
each year?
It's not like I have to buy a new car or house each year but for some reason
with software you do. I also have a 5 year warranty on my Porsche 911 and I
don't even have to pay maintenance on it as it's all included in the cost as
well.
Could you also send me another e-mail where I don't have to wait on customer
support for over an hour?
Also, how about another e-mail letting me know that the developer I am
using, even though he's certified and has every single 3 or 4 letter acronym
on his business card I can imagine is ever going to get around to coding the
thing and making the software and for once, make it easy to use as my
Porsche911?
And can I trade in my SQL Server 2K for the new Yukon and get an Upgrade
Price like I can with Porsche911?
Please send me an e-mail when I can trade in my old database also get get a
resale like I can with my Porsche911?
And if possible, can you send me another e-mail letting me know of really
happy and satisfied customers like all the other Porsche911 owners there are
out there....thousands and thousands......
And what about all those bells and whistles that the developer was
promising? Did I really need that? How about an ROI?
Oh, and by the WAY
Get off your high horse, or I will really knock you down just like I do with
the others.
I'd love to see Mom and pops administering SQL Server too, that must be a lot
of fun.
BTW, which conference? What software? Why did I just waste 5 minutes
responding to this dribble? (and as the other guy mentioned, I think you
may need a new keyboard becuase I doubt anyone would be so ill mannered
and unprofessional to post in a serious newsgroup with to many words
capitailzed for emphasis).
Cheers,
Bill
"nospam" <n@ntspam.com> wrote in message
news:uk**************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl... MSDE is a COMPLETE MARKETING and LICENSING/VERSION FAILURE as ZERO
PEOPLE USE IT for anything, even development.
I have heard Gurus, .NET authors, UserGroups, .NET Evangelists, RD's and
MVP's mention it as an alternative to MySQL.
TOTAL B.S. and CLUELESSNESS on their part as well as Microsoft.
It's the developer who is going to create the database anyway and anyone
who wants to use SQL Server has got an MSDN Universal Subscription anyway.
AND then this developer has to tell his entreprenuer client the costs
involved and then they look at "alternatives" and they other non-.NET
developers...hence PHP, MySql.
These entreprenuers don't have millions of dollars and are just trying
to make it like anyone else. They are not going to pour or PUT every
dollar into their web server and database as there are OTHER things to BUY as
well in a business.....BUSINESSES do have other things to BUY and PAY for
than just SOFTWARE.
At this moment I am arrogant: you are below me.
To put it bluntly, you aren't worth arguing with. I don't care what you
think. You are too immature, too arrogant, and far too unaware to hold a
real argument, let alone a discussion.
You provide no help, no information, just random ranting. That is not why
most people
are here. This is not an advocacy group, it is a support group. Your posts
provide no support or information, just endless, contradictory fluff.
You are a troll, net garbage, a flame spreader.
Your challenges mean nothing, your arguments mean nothing.
You are, as far as I am concerned, little more than a bad jester. Meant to
be humored, then ignored, never to be argued with or taken seriously.
I do, however, find it very funny that you would be audacious enough to
address me by name while hiding behind anonymity.
baka...
"nospam" <n@ntspam.com> wrote in message
news:e4*************@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl... Don't be so stupid and arrogant Daniel....you are more than welcome to
join the other thread and be humiliated and proven wrong on every point just
the other poster. There is still a challenge out there to compare system of
2-tier versus n-Tier..... there is also no R.O.I. either....
Like I said....don't be stupid and arrogant.
"Daniel O'Connell" <on******@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:ST49b.444679$o%2.202388@sccrnsc02... The only reason this guy isn't on my killfilter already is his posts are
funny.
As much as I hate to have to post this, I've been enjoying the last
series of posts I saw started by this guy, as they were some of the funniest
things I've seen on the groups in some time, however, he really isn't to be
taken seriously. It extols the virtues of 2-tier web architecture over n-tier
(http://tinyurl.com/nceo)
However, for anyone who doesn't find humour in unfocused, mindless
ranting, filtering these posts may be a blessing, I suspect this will get ugly.
"nospam" <n@ntspam.com> wrote in message
news:uk**************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl... MSDE is a COMPLETE MARKETING and LICENSING/VERSION FAILURE as ZERO PEOPLE USE IT for anything, even development.
I have heard Gurus, .NET authors, UserGroups, .NET Evangelists, RD's
and MVP's mention it as an alternative to MySQL.
TOTAL B.S. and CLUELESSNESS on their part as well as Microsoft.
It's the developer who is going to create the database anyway and
anyone who wants to use SQL Server has got an MSDN Universal Subscription anyway.
AND then this developer has to tell his entreprenuer client the costs
involved and then they look at "alternatives" and they other non-.NET
developers...hence PHP, MySql.
These entreprenuers don't have millions of dollars and are just trying to make it like anyone else. They are not going to pour or PUT every dollar into their web server and database as there are OTHER things to BUY as
well in a business.....BUSINESSES do have other things to BUY and PAY for than just SOFTWARE.
Obviously your are clueless to think that the typical startup or MOM and POP
needs all that SQL Server can offer. You are also clueless to think that
even the startup or even the Fortune 500 company needs all that SQL Server
has to offer.
Ever heard of startup, limited funds, what about corporate project that
needs ONLY what it needs?
You have the SAME arrogance that MS had toward Linux......
Dear MR. MVP:
I need a Web Server with a simple database to get my business started..I
don't need analysis services and xml stuff. And when I have got my business
up and running I should have some money to add more. Oh, I don't want to
FALL for the MS Access to SQL Server Upgrade trap and buggy and costly port.
Why not limit the license so that I can write code and stored procs to begin
with......if I need more space, I will buy a SQL SErver upgrade license.
BUT since you don't offer that, I will goto PHP and MySql....I probably be
happy, and getting me to switch is going to be a very difficult proposition.
So, I will just buy faster hardware....And then why I am really successfull,
I might just goto Oracle or DB2 and I got more money to spend anyway AND
MICROSOFT was so UNFRIENDLY and my developers don't like them either.
It's really odd that Microsoft would offer a Windows 2003 Server-Web
License, but not a database that is robust as Windows Server 2003......too
bad I won't be able to really see that MS Access could be the problem...to
bad I won't realize until afterward how bad the port to SQL server was and
how costly it was.
So MR. MVP....here is your business lesson, read again and learn it.
"Andrew J. Kelly" <sq************@shadhawk.com> wrote in message
news:e1**************@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl... Obviously your the one who is clueless if you think MySql can do all that
MSDE can and better. I won't get into a drawn out debate here since you
are so far off base it isn't funny. Your rants and raves don't serve any
practical purpose so I suggest you go off an play with your toy db's if
they make you happy.
--
Andrew J. Kelly
SQL Server MVP
"nospam" <n@ntspam.com> wrote in message
news:uk**************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl... MSDE is a COMPLETE MARKETING and LICENSING/VERSION FAILURE as ZERO
PEOPLE USE IT for anything, even development.
I have heard Gurus, .NET authors, UserGroups, .NET Evangelists, RD's and
MVP's mention it as an alternative to MySQL.
TOTAL B.S. and CLUELESSNESS on their part as well as Microsoft.
It's the developer who is going to create the database anyway and anyone
who wants to use SQL Server has got an MSDN Universal Subscription anyway.
AND then this developer has to tell his entreprenuer client the costs
involved and then they look at "alternatives" and they other non-.NET
developers...hence PHP, MySql.
These entreprenuers don't have millions of dollars and are just trying
to make it like anyone else. They are not going to pour or PUT every
dollar into their web server and database as there are OTHER things to BUY as
well in a business.....BUSINESSES do have other things to BUY and PAY for
than just SOFTWARE.
You know why there is anonymity?
BECAUSE zeolots and fanatics like YOU attack the poster instead of the
arguments because you have NO arguments to begin with.
"Daniel O'Connell" <on******@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:o169b.448375$uu5.79648@sccrnsc04... At this moment I am arrogant: you are below me.
To put it bluntly, you aren't worth arguing with. I don't care what you
think. You are too immature, too arrogant, and far too unaware to hold a
real argument, let alone a discussion.
You provide no help, no information, just random ranting. That is not why
most people
are here. This is not an advocacy group, it is a support group. Your posts
provide no support or information, just endless, contradictory fluff.
You are a troll, net garbage, a flame spreader.
Your challenges mean nothing, your arguments mean nothing.
You are, as far as I am concerned, little more than a bad jester. Meant to
be humored, then ignored, never to be argued with or taken seriously.
I do, however, find it very funny that you would be audacious enough to
address me by name while hiding behind anonymity.
baka...
"nospam" <n@ntspam.com> wrote in message
news:e4*************@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl... Don't be so stupid and arrogant Daniel....you are more than welcome to
join the other thread and be humiliated and proven wrong on every point just
the other poster. There is still a challenge out there to compare system of
2-tier versus n-Tier..... there is also no R.O.I. either....
Like I said....don't be stupid and arrogant.
"Daniel O'Connell" <on******@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:ST49b.444679$o%2.202388@sccrnsc02... The only reason this guy isn't on my killfilter already is his posts
are funny.
As much as I hate to have to post this, I've been enjoying the last series of posts I saw started by this guy, as they were some of the funniest
things I've seen on the groups in some time, however, he really isn't to be taken seriously. It extols the virtues of 2-tier web architecture over
n-tier (http://tinyurl.com/nceo)
However, for anyone who doesn't find humour in unfocused, mindless
ranting, filtering these posts may be a blessing, I suspect this will get ugly.
"nospam" <n@ntspam.com> wrote in message
news:uk**************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> MSDE is a COMPLETE MARKETING and LICENSING/VERSION FAILURE as ZERO
PEOPLE > USE IT for anything, even development.
>
> I have heard Gurus, .NET authors, UserGroups, .NET Evangelists, RD's and > MVP's mention it as an alternative to MySQL.
>
> TOTAL B.S. and CLUELESSNESS on their part as well as Microsoft.
>
> It's the developer who is going to create the database anyway and anyone who
> wants to use SQL Server has got an MSDN Universal Subscription
anyway. AND
> then this developer has to tell his entreprenuer client the costs
involved > and then they look at "alternatives" and they other non-.NET
> developers...hence PHP, MySql.
>
> These entreprenuers don't have millions of dollars and are just
trying to > make it like anyone else. They are not going to pour or PUT every
dollar > into their web server and database as there are OTHER things to BUY
as well
> in a business.....BUSINESSES do have other things to BUY and PAY for
than > just SOFTWARE.
>
>
Well said.
"Daniel O'Connell" <on******@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:o169b.448375$uu5.79648@sccrnsc04... At this moment I am arrogant: you are below me.
To put it bluntly, you aren't worth arguing with. I don't care what you
think. You are too immature, too arrogant, and far too unaware to hold a
real argument, let alone a discussion.
You provide no help, no information, just random ranting. That is not why
most people
are here. This is not an advocacy group, it is a support group. Your posts
provide no support or information, just endless, contradictory fluff.
You are a troll, net garbage, a flame spreader.
Your challenges mean nothing, your arguments mean nothing.
You are, as far as I am concerned, little more than a bad jester. Meant to
be humored, then ignored, never to be argued with or taken seriously.
I do, however, find it very funny that you would be audacious enough to
address me by name while hiding behind anonymity.
baka...
"nospam" <n@ntspam.com> wrote in message
news:e4*************@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl... Don't be so stupid and arrogant Daniel....you are more than welcome to
join the other thread and be humiliated and proven wrong on every point just
the other poster. There is still a challenge out there to compare system of
2-tier versus n-Tier..... there is also no R.O.I. either....
Like I said....don't be stupid and arrogant.
"Daniel O'Connell" <on******@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:ST49b.444679$o%2.202388@sccrnsc02... The only reason this guy isn't on my killfilter already is his posts
are funny.
As much as I hate to have to post this, I've been enjoying the last series of posts I saw started by this guy, as they were some of the funniest
things I've seen on the groups in some time, however, he really isn't to be taken seriously. It extols the virtues of 2-tier web architecture over
n-tier (http://tinyurl.com/nceo)
However, for anyone who doesn't find humour in unfocused, mindless
ranting, filtering these posts may be a blessing, I suspect this will get ugly.
"nospam" <n@ntspam.com> wrote in message
news:uk**************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> MSDE is a COMPLETE MARKETING and LICENSING/VERSION FAILURE as ZERO
PEOPLE > USE IT for anything, even development.
>
> I have heard Gurus, .NET authors, UserGroups, .NET Evangelists, RD's and > MVP's mention it as an alternative to MySQL.
>
> TOTAL B.S. and CLUELESSNESS on their part as well as Microsoft.
>
> It's the developer who is going to create the database anyway and anyone who
> wants to use SQL Server has got an MSDN Universal Subscription
anyway. AND
> then this developer has to tell his entreprenuer client the costs
involved > and then they look at "alternatives" and they other non-.NET
> developers...hence PHP, MySql.
>
> These entreprenuers don't have millions of dollars and are just
trying to > make it like anyone else. They are not going to pour or PUT every
dollar > into their web server and database as there are OTHER things to BUY
as well
> in a business.....BUSINESSES do have other things to BUY and PAY for
than > just SOFTWARE.
>
>
Thank you..
"Peter McMahon [MVP]" <pe***@nospam.dotnet.za.net> wrote in message
news:u8**************@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl... Well said.
"Daniel O'Connell" <on******@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:o169b.448375$uu5.79648@sccrnsc04... At this moment I am arrogant: you are below me.
To put it bluntly, you aren't worth arguing with. I don't care what you
think. You are too immature, too arrogant, and far too unaware to hold a
real argument, let alone a discussion.
You provide no help, no information, just random ranting. That is not
why most people
are here. This is not an advocacy group, it is a support group. Your
posts provide no support or information, just endless, contradictory fluff.
You are a troll, net garbage, a flame spreader.
Your challenges mean nothing, your arguments mean nothing.
You are, as far as I am concerned, little more than a bad jester. Meant
to be humored, then ignored, never to be argued with or taken seriously.
I do, however, find it very funny that you would be audacious enough to
address me by name while hiding behind anonymity.
baka...
"nospam" <n@ntspam.com> wrote in message
news:e4*************@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl... Don't be so stupid and arrogant Daniel....you are more than welcome to join the other thread and be humiliated and proven wrong on every point
just the other poster. There is still a challenge out there to compare system
of 2-tier versus n-Tier..... there is also no R.O.I. either....
Like I said....don't be stupid and arrogant.
"Daniel O'Connell" <on******@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:ST49b.444679$o%2.202388@sccrnsc02...
> The only reason this guy isn't on my killfilter already is his posts
are > funny.
> As much as I hate to have to post this, I've been enjoying the last
series > of posts I saw started by this guy, as they were some of the
funniest things
> I've seen on the groups in some time, however, he really isn't to be
taken > seriously. It extols the virtues of 2-tier web architecture over n-tier > (http://tinyurl.com/nceo)
> However, for anyone who doesn't find humour in unfocused, mindless
ranting,
> filtering these posts may be a blessing, I suspect this will get
ugly. > "nospam" <n@ntspam.com> wrote in message
> news:uk**************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> > MSDE is a COMPLETE MARKETING and LICENSING/VERSION FAILURE as ZERO
PEOPLE
> > USE IT for anything, even development.
> >
> > I have heard Gurus, .NET authors, UserGroups, .NET Evangelists,
RD's and > > MVP's mention it as an alternative to MySQL.
> >
> > TOTAL B.S. and CLUELESSNESS on their part as well as Microsoft.
> >
> > It's the developer who is going to create the database anyway and
anyone > who
> > wants to use SQL Server has got an MSDN Universal Subscription anyway. > AND
> > then this developer has to tell his entreprenuer client the costs
involved
> > and then they look at "alternatives" and they other non-.NET
> > developers...hence PHP, MySql.
> >
> > These entreprenuers don't have millions of dollars and are just trying to
> > make it like anyone else. They are not going to pour or PUT every
dollar
> > into their web server and database as there are OTHER things to
BUY as > well
> > in a business.....BUSINESSES do have other things to BUY and PAY
for than
> > just SOFTWARE.
> >
> >
>
>
I shouldn't reply since you ARE a TROLL but....
To disprove an absolute statement like yours (quoted below) requires only 1
example.
I use MSDE for development for my current project.
I am deploying an application (Disaster Backup system for an AS/400 which
controls label printing to run a Just In Time Auto Assembly suppliers
shopfloor)
using MSDE. A number of application feed live data into it, use it to run
queries and print labels. It works. It cost nothing.
It runs on a set of 3 machines one of which hosts the database using MSDE.
If I later expand this to enterprise wide I can detach the database and
reattach to the full SQL version - I've done it, and gone the other way -
its seemless.
You might want to check the licensing FAQ at http://www.microsoft.com/sql/msde/howtobuy/msdeuse.asp
Basically if you own Microsoft development tools or MSDN you can use
it/distribute it.
You may apologize at any time for YOUR cluelessness and B.S. :-)
Tom Hall
"nospam" <n@ntspam.com> wrote in message
news:uk**************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl... MSDE is a COMPLETE MARKETING and LICENSING/VERSION FAILURE as ZERO PEOPLE
USE IT for anything, even development.
And about his points?
"nospam" <n@ntspam.com> wrote in message
news:#2**************@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl... Ah GOOD. An MVP.
Well, I'm sorry but I believe I have to tell you that MySQL is not
really a full-featured database ... well, you can put some data in it and get it out again, but that's basically it. MSDE and SQL Server, as well as
(expensive) systems like DB2 or Oracle provide you with a lot more useful
functionality
Do mom and pops need all that power of a full featured database? What
about startups?
Dear MR. MVP....don't stick you foot in your mouth.
Why offer a MSDE and ask developers to download it then and use .NET AND
then expect the developer to GET a Fortune 500 client???????
Say if they only have enough money to go SLOW in getting a site up?
...Why should you have the developer use MS ACCESS then do a port to SQL Server
when all Microsoft has to do is make something like a mom and pop
"production" license....all an Access to SQL Server port does is
COMPLETELY WASTES everyone TIME and MONEY AND more BUGS and LOWERS CUSTOMER
SATISFACTION. SQL Server should be have a licensing program that allow
for a easy upgrade from mom and pop to successfull startup...what's so hard
about that?
Dear MR. MVP,
******There are ONLY 500 companies in the FORTUNE 500.*****
COMPRENDE??????
Next time, you should think carefully.
...
Btw ... PHP can only be compared with ASP.NET. But both play in
different leagues. And believe me, ASP.NET plays in a higher league than PHP
Oh, just in case you think that I'm a complete Microsoft-evangelist ...
I know PHP and MySQL pretty well and I know what I'm talking about.
However, it seems that you should first learn a bit more about database systems
and programming languages before writing stupid things like this post ...
Regards,
--
Frank Eller [.NET MVP]
www.frankeller.de
.NET Developers Group Munich- www.munichdot.net
Read ANY OF MICHAEL LANG's <you taught me this is cool, everyone else,
please forgive> post on the ADO.NET NG about generic providers. Heck, head
over to his shareware site and download his stuff. It's free and it can get
you over your terrible hurdle.
"nospam" <n@ntspam.com> wrote in message
news:#2**************@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl... Ah GOOD. An MVP.
Well, I'm sorry but I believe I have to tell you that MySQL is not
really a full-featured database ... well, you can put some data in it and get it out again, but that's basically it. MSDE and SQL Server, as well as
(expensive) systems like DB2 or Oracle provide you with a lot more useful
functionality
Do mom and pops need all that power of a full featured database? What
about startups?
Dear MR. MVP....don't stick you foot in your mouth.
Why offer a MSDE and ask developers to download it then and use .NET AND
then expect the developer to GET a Fortune 500 client???????
Say if they only have enough money to go SLOW in getting a site up?
...Why should you have the developer use MS ACCESS then do a port to SQL Server
when all Microsoft has to do is make something like a mom and pop
"production" license....all an Access to SQL Server port does is
COMPLETELY WASTES everyone TIME and MONEY AND more BUGS and LOWERS CUSTOMER
SATISFACTION. SQL Server should be have a licensing program that allow
for a easy upgrade from mom and pop to successfull startup...what's so hard
about that?
Dear MR. MVP,
******There are ONLY 500 companies in the FORTUNE 500.*****
COMPRENDE??????
Next time, you should think carefully.
...
Btw ... PHP can only be compared with ASP.NET. But both play in
different leagues. And believe me, ASP.NET plays in a higher league than PHP
Oh, just in case you think that I'm a complete Microsoft-evangelist ...
I know PHP and MySQL pretty well and I know what I'm talking about.
However, it seems that you should first learn a bit more about database systems
and programming languages before writing stupid things like this post ...
Regards,
--
Frank Eller [.NET MVP]
www.frankeller.de
.NET Developers Group Munich- www.munichdot.net
Please, Please knock me down. You've proven your understanding of markets
too well .... and it isn't much.
No one ever ever forces you to buy software, at least in the USA. If so,
there's a legal provision called coercion, which invalidates contracts. If
any of your mom and pop welfare agencies can prove a MS rep put a gun up to
there head, please let me know, I'll file the request for them.
Regarding my Porsche, let me use my Jaguar as an example....
It breaks down all the time but I look cool in it.
It leaks oil and everything else all the time <Why don't they make Computers
in England? B/C they can't figure out how to make them leak oil----No
offense to the English--We have plenty wrong with us over here> There are
like six qualified mechanics where I live, and they are never open when you
need them.
I can't get a reimbursement for a tow or time lost when the water pump
breaks or my other ailment du jour.
I can't charge my Mom and Pop clients enough to buy an XK..and everyone
knows if you buy a jag, you need two of them so you have one for when the
other is in the shop.
My Jaguar dealership never promised me it wouldn't break down, they don't
even pretend like it won't. But they will tell you that you'll look cool in
one.
I wish I could not have to buy a new one every year. Well, actually I
don't, every two years. Those darned leasing companies!
Oh, If I could only turn my XJ6 for an XK. If anyone at Jaguar is
listening...I'm one of your most loyal customers....Please Please Please let
me do an even trade for my 2001 XJ6 and get a 2003 XK.
Can I ever get my Jag fixed during the week? Not where I live, even though
they want to, too many people ahead of me.
No, no software can ever be as fun as Jag convertible. Yukon will come
close. C# has done a great job. But for pure fun....even with my three
letter postfix (MBA), nothing can compete with a Jag software wise.
Satisfied customer...yes, William Ryan do********@comcast.net Loves Loves
Loves SQL Server and C# and Jags. The first two will help me buy a 911 soon
enough, and don't even get me started on Watches.
Please Mr. I Sell Software to the Welfare Agency B/C They like it software
genius....please, put me in my place.
BTW, please also explain the markets to me. I'd love to understand your
theory on Monetary Velocity and its effects on inflation or the Econometric
Quantification of Capital Gains Tax Manipulation (I wrote my Master's thesis
on the latter, and I'd love your opinions on it since you can teach me a
thing or two about both software and economics.)
Please cc me at wr***@infoprogroup.com I'd love to share this with my
co-workers who make fun of my jag every day.
Cheers,
Bill
"nospam" <n@ntspam.com> wrote in message
news:#L**************@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl... I understand the market more than you do and can EASILY see the .php
extension on web sites.
I also see it on job postings and on shopping carts.
MORE COMMENTS BELOW, especially to your Porsche911
"William Ryan" <do********@nospam.comcast.net> wrote in message
news:uq*************@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl... I use both MySQL and MSDE and at the moment, still prefer MSDE in that
it supports Stored Procs and you can use T-SQL constructs quite easily.
Your post indicates a lack of understanding about both the market and the
product, so much so, that I feel guilty even responding. It's too bad
we live in a capilatistic society where people expect to get paid for their
work, particularly those evil MS Software engineers. They don't have to
feed their families or anything, nor do they deserve compensation for
all of their hard work. Heck, newsgroup malcontents provide every bit as much
of a service as do talented engineers at Microsoft.
If they can't afford it, don't buy it. Reduced demand will shift market
prices. That's why Oracle costs a fraction of what it did during the
..Com boom. Do me a favor, I've been eying a Porsche 911 for a while, but a
bit out of my price range. Can you please send them a similar e-mail
indicating that a mom and pop's son can't afford their car and see if I can get one
for say 25k? I could sell my software services for a lot less if I could
get a 25K Porsche, and then I could even cater to mom and pop's everywhere.
Could you send me a e-mail letting me know when software bugs will end my
Porsche911 doesn't break down on the road you know each week like your
software does?
How about another e-mail when I don't have to constantly upgrade my
software each year?
It's not like I have to buy a new car or house each year but for some
reason with software you do. I also have a 5 year warranty on my Porsche 911 and
I don't even have to pay maintenance on it as it's all included in the cost
as well.
Could you also send me another e-mail where I don't have to wait on
customer support for over an hour?
Also, how about another e-mail letting me know that the developer I am
using, even though he's certified and has every single 3 or 4 letter
acronym on his business card I can imagine is ever going to get around to coding
the thing and making the software and for once, make it easy to use as my
Porsche911?
And can I trade in my SQL Server 2K for the new Yukon and get an Upgrade
Price like I can with Porsche911?
Please send me an e-mail when I can trade in my old database also get get
a resale like I can with my Porsche911?
And if possible, can you send me another e-mail letting me know of really
happy and satisfied customers like all the other Porsche911 owners there
are out there....thousands and thousands......
And what about all those bells and whistles that the developer was
promising? Did I really need that? How about an ROI?
Oh, and by the WAY
Get off your high horse, or I will really knock you down just like I do
with the others.
I'd love to see Mom and pops administering SQL Server too, that must be a
lot of fun.
BTW, which conference? What software? Why did I just waste 5 minutes
responding to this dribble? (and as the other guy mentioned, I think
you may need a new keyboard becuase I doubt anyone would be so ill mannered
and unprofessional to post in a serious newsgroup with to many words
capitailzed for emphasis).
Cheers,
Bill
"nospam" <n@ntspam.com> wrote in message
news:uk**************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl... MSDE is a COMPLETE MARKETING and LICENSING/VERSION FAILURE as ZERO PEOPLE USE IT for anything, even development.
I have heard Gurus, .NET authors, UserGroups, .NET Evangelists, RD's
and MVP's mention it as an alternative to MySQL.
TOTAL B.S. and CLUELESSNESS on their part as well as Microsoft.
It's the developer who is going to create the database anyway and
anyone who wants to use SQL Server has got an MSDN Universal Subscription anyway.
AND then this developer has to tell his entreprenuer client the costs
involved and then they look at "alternatives" and they other non-.NET
developers...hence PHP, MySql.
These entreprenuers don't have millions of dollars and are just trying to make it like anyone else. They are not going to pour or PUT every dollar into their web server and database as there are OTHER things to BUY as
well in a business.....BUSINESSES do have other things to BUY and PAY for than just SOFTWARE.
Which software conference, you let this one slip by...Liar
"William Ryan" <do********@nospam.comcast.net> wrote in message
news:uq*************@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl... I use both MySQL and MSDE and at the moment, still prefer MSDE in that it
supports Stored Procs and you can use T-SQL constructs quite easily. Your
post indicates a lack of understanding about both the market and the
product, so much so, that I feel guilty even responding. It's too bad we
live in a capilatistic society where people expect to get paid for their
work, particularly those evil MS Software engineers. They don't have to
feed their families or anything, nor do they deserve compensation for all
of their hard work. Heck, newsgroup malcontents provide every bit as much of
a service as do talented engineers at Microsoft.
If they can't afford it, don't buy it. Reduced demand will shift market
prices. That's why Oracle costs a fraction of what it did during the .Com
boom. Do me a favor, I've been eying a Porsche 911 for a while, but a bit
out of my price range. Can you please send them a similar e-mail
indicating that a mom and pop's son can't afford their car and see if I can get one
for say 25k? I could sell my software services for a lot less if I could get
a 25K Porsche, and then I could even cater to mom and pop's everywhere. I'd
love to see Mom and pops administering SQL Server too, that must be a lot
of fun.
BTW, which conference? What software? Why did I just waste 5 minutes
responding to this dribble? (and as the other guy mentioned, I think you
may need a new keyboard becuase I doubt anyone would be so ill mannered
and unprofessional to post in a serious newsgroup with to many words
capitailzed for emphasis).
Cheers,
Bill
"nospam" <n@ntspam.com> wrote in message
news:uk**************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl... MSDE is a COMPLETE MARKETING and LICENSING/VERSION FAILURE as ZERO
PEOPLE USE IT for anything, even development.
I have heard Gurus, .NET authors, UserGroups, .NET Evangelists, RD's and
MVP's mention it as an alternative to MySQL.
TOTAL B.S. and CLUELESSNESS on their part as well as Microsoft.
It's the developer who is going to create the database anyway and anyone
who wants to use SQL Server has got an MSDN Universal Subscription anyway.
AND then this developer has to tell his entreprenuer client the costs
involved and then they look at "alternatives" and they other non-.NET
developers...hence PHP, MySql.
These entreprenuers don't have millions of dollars and are just trying
to make it like anyone else. They are not going to pour or PUT every
dollar into their web server and database as there are OTHER things to BUY as
well in a business.....BUSINESSES do have other things to BUY and PAY for
than just SOFTWARE.
You can't use MSDE in a Production environment.
Did you bother to read this? http://www.microsoft.com/sql/howtobuy/faq.asp
Read closely.....the words, "production environment"
How about this? http://www.microsoft.com/sql/howtobuy/default.asp
Do non-technical types know how to get discounts? Maybe, maybe not.
However, Mr. CLUELESS, did it ever occur to you that using an AS/400 is not
an a startups vocabulary?
It's amazing how STUPID programmers are to the business world.....then again
just look at the DOT BOMB where these same clueless programmers had
thousands of options but weren't smart enough to figure out that the company
they worked for, day and night for a few year or so, wasn't making any
money....
YES, MR. CLUELESS PROGRAMMER.....you know a lot about business.
"Tom Hall" <t.****@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:e9****************@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl... I shouldn't reply since you ARE a TROLL but....
To disprove an absolute statement like yours (quoted below) requires only
1 example.
I use MSDE for development for my current project.
I am deploying an application (Disaster Backup system for an AS/400 which
controls label printing to run a Just In Time Auto Assembly suppliers
shopfloor)
using MSDE. A number of application feed live data into it, use it to run
queries and print labels. It works. It cost nothing.
It runs on a set of 3 machines one of which hosts the database using MSDE.
If I later expand this to enterprise wide I can detach the database and
reattach to the full SQL version - I've done it, and gone the other way -
its seemless.
You might want to check the licensing FAQ at
http://www.microsoft.com/sql/msde/howtobuy/msdeuse.asp
Basically if you own Microsoft development tools or MSDN you can use
it/distribute it.
You may apologize at any time for YOUR cluelessness and B.S. :-)
Tom Hall
"nospam" <n@ntspam.com> wrote in message
news:uk**************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl... MSDE is a COMPLETE MARKETING and LICENSING/VERSION FAILURE as ZERO
PEOPLE USE IT for anything, even development.
Dribble......
Well Mr. High END, did it ever occur to your that your High END Jaguar is
like an Oracle DB?
HOWEVER, if you want to cater to only 1% of the market for Porsche and Jags,
than be stupid.
GM, Ford, Toyota, Honda, etc all cater to the high end and LOW end...and
guess what? The quality is so good, YOU can buy USED cars and they don't
break down on you.
These same cars can get you from Point A to point B just as well........ AND
DO I really NEED something that fast to get to work? Do I really need a
helicopter to get to work?
A lot of everyday people still use that Toyota pickup truck that has 500,000
miles on it......TOO bad nothing can be said about a lot of the newest
software today.
The cost of the some of the DB's is so much, you could hire someone in a
India to take orders over the TELEPHONE log it into QuickBooks by hand, then
port it over to my JAGUAR, Oracle DB when I have the money if I so wished.
YOU ARE SO CLUELESS, no one said give everything away for free. BUT SQL
Server should not cost more than all of the other equipment put together.
DID you ever hear of WAL-MART? That's a lot different than Saks 5th Avenue.
"William Ryan" <do********@nospam.comcast.net> wrote in message
news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl... Please, Please knock me down. You've proven your understanding of markets
too well .... and it isn't much.
No one ever ever forces you to buy software, at least in the USA. If so,
there's a legal provision called coercion, which invalidates contracts.
If any of your mom and pop welfare agencies can prove a MS rep put a gun up
to there head, please let me know, I'll file the request for them.
Regarding my Porsche, let me use my Jaguar as an example....
It breaks down all the time but I look cool in it.
It leaks oil and everything else all the time <Why don't they make
Computers in England? B/C they can't figure out how to make them leak oil----No
offense to the English--We have plenty wrong with us over here> There are
like six qualified mechanics where I live, and they are never open when
you need them.
I can't get a reimbursement for a tow or time lost when the water pump
breaks or my other ailment du jour.
I can't charge my Mom and Pop clients enough to buy an XK..and everyone
knows if you buy a jag, you need two of them so you have one for when the
other is in the shop.
My Jaguar dealership never promised me it wouldn't break down, they don't
even pretend like it won't. But they will tell you that you'll look cool
in one.
I wish I could not have to buy a new one every year. Well, actually I
don't, every two years. Those darned leasing companies!
Oh, If I could only turn my XJ6 for an XK. If anyone at Jaguar is
listening...I'm one of your most loyal customers....Please Please Please
let me do an even trade for my 2001 XJ6 and get a 2003 XK.
Can I ever get my Jag fixed during the week? Not where I live, even
though they want to, too many people ahead of me.
No, no software can ever be as fun as Jag convertible. Yukon will come
close. C# has done a great job. But for pure fun....even with my three
letter postfix (MBA), nothing can compete with a Jag software wise.
Satisfied customer...yes, William Ryan do********@comcast.net Loves
Loves Loves SQL Server and C# and Jags. The first two will help me buy a 911
soon enough, and don't even get me started on Watches.
Please Mr. I Sell Software to the Welfare Agency B/C They like it software
genius....please, put me in my place.
BTW, please also explain the markets to me. I'd love to understand your
theory on Monetary Velocity and its effects on inflation or the
Econometric Quantification of Capital Gains Tax Manipulation (I wrote my Master's
thesis on the latter, and I'd love your opinions on it since you can teach me a
thing or two about both software and economics.)
Please cc me at wr***@infoprogroup.com I'd love to share this with my
co-workers who make fun of my jag every day.
Cheers,
Bill
"nospam" <n@ntspam.com> wrote in message
news:#L**************@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl... I understand the market more than you do and can EASILY see the .php
extension on web sites.
I also see it on job postings and on shopping carts.
MORE COMMENTS BELOW, especially to your Porsche911
"William Ryan" <do********@nospam.comcast.net> wrote in message
news:uq*************@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl... I use both MySQL and MSDE and at the moment, still prefer MSDE in that it supports Stored Procs and you can use T-SQL constructs quite easily. Your post indicates a lack of understanding about both the market and the
product, so much so, that I feel guilty even responding. It's too bad we live in a capilatistic society where people expect to get paid for
their work, particularly those evil MS Software engineers. They don't have
to feed their families or anything, nor do they deserve compensation for all of their hard work. Heck, newsgroup malcontents provide every bit as
much of a service as do talented engineers at Microsoft.
If they can't afford it, don't buy it. Reduced demand will shift
market prices. That's why Oracle costs a fraction of what it did during the .Com boom. Do me a favor, I've been eying a Porsche 911 for a while, but a bit out of my price range. Can you please send them a similar e-mail
indicating that a mom and pop's son can't afford their car and see if I can get
one for say 25k? I could sell my software services for a lot less if I could get a 25K Porsche, and then I could even cater to mom and pop's everywhere.
Could you send me a e-mail letting me know when software bugs will end
my Porsche911 doesn't break down on the road you know each week like your
software does?
How about another e-mail when I don't have to constantly upgrade my
software each year?
It's not like I have to buy a new car or house each year but for some
reason with software you do. I also have a 5 year warranty on my Porsche 911
and I don't even have to pay maintenance on it as it's all included in the
cost as well.
Could you also send me another e-mail where I don't have to wait on customer support for over an hour?
Also, how about another e-mail letting me know that the developer I am
using, even though he's certified and has every single 3 or 4 letter
acronym on his business card I can imagine is ever going to get around to coding
the thing and making the software and for once, make it easy to use as my
Porsche911?
And can I trade in my SQL Server 2K for the new Yukon and get an Upgrade
Price like I can with Porsche911?
Please send me an e-mail when I can trade in my old database also get
get a resale like I can with my Porsche911?
And if possible, can you send me another e-mail letting me know of
really happy and satisfied customers like all the other Porsche911 owners there
are out there....thousands and thousands......
And what about all those bells and whistles that the developer was
promising? Did I really need that? How about an ROI?
Oh, and by the WAY
Get off your high horse, or I will really knock you down just like I do
with the others.
I'd love to see Mom and pops administering SQL Server too, that must be a lot of fun.
BTW, which conference? What software? Why did I just waste 5 minutes
responding to this dribble? (and as the other guy mentioned, I think
you may need a new keyboard becuase I doubt anyone would be so ill
mannered and unprofessional to post in a serious newsgroup with to many words
capitailzed for emphasis).
Cheers,
Bill
"nospam" <n@ntspam.com> wrote in message
news:uk**************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> MSDE is a COMPLETE MARKETING and LICENSING/VERSION FAILURE as ZERO
PEOPLE > USE IT for anything, even development.
>
> I have heard Gurus, .NET authors, UserGroups, .NET Evangelists, RD's and > MVP's mention it as an alternative to MySQL.
>
> TOTAL B.S. and CLUELESSNESS on their part as well as Microsoft.
>
> It's the developer who is going to create the database anyway and anyone who
> wants to use SQL Server has got an MSDN Universal Subscription
anyway. AND
> then this developer has to tell his entreprenuer client the costs
involved > and then they look at "alternatives" and they other non-.NET
> developers...hence PHP, MySql.
>
> These entreprenuers don't have millions of dollars and are just
trying to > make it like anyone else. They are not going to pour or PUT every
dollar > into their web server and database as there are OTHER things to BUY
as well
> in a business.....BUSINESSES do have other things to BUY and PAY for
than > just SOFTWARE.
>
>
Is it really? That's cool. I always liked my Jag, but comparing it to an
Oracle DB. A little about myself. I was a actuary by profession, hard core
nerd. Learned ORacle from there, on Solaris. Grew into a Java Programmer.
Then, when I hated MS, I got a job where they didn't care about my 3:33t
Oracle sk1llz. So I learned SQL Server. Gained tons of respect for it.
I do cater to 1% of the market. As a matter of fact, the Department of
Defense will vouche for this, I am the lead developer on one of the most
widely used Pocket PC/SqlServer CE apps marketed right now. A product that
generates nothing under 35k on a minimal install................and we have
more demand than supply at the moment.
It rocks, and in January, that 911 is mine, hopefully, BC I SPEND MY TIME
WRITING CODE, KEEPING IT REAL, and making stuff happen instead of whining.
Let me know what marekt you cater to... I would like to relieve you of the
the pressure of accomodating it. If you would only post a real name, then
we could see your web site.....here's mine.... www.infoprogroup.com
............let's see yours..... Four more mom and pops and that Porsche is
mine! Mwuahhahahaha
"nospam" <n@ntspam.com> wrote in message
news:Oj*************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl... Dribble......
Well Mr. High END, did it ever occur to your that your High END Jaguar is
like an Oracle DB?
HOWEVER, if you want to cater to only 1% of the market for Porsche and
Jags, than be stupid.
GM, Ford, Toyota, Honda, etc all cater to the high end and LOW end...and
guess what? The quality is so good, YOU can buy USED cars and they don't
break down on you.
These same cars can get you from Point A to point B just as well........
AND DO I really NEED something that fast to get to work? Do I really need a
helicopter to get to work?
A lot of everyday people still use that Toyota pickup truck that has
500,000 miles on it......TOO bad nothing can be said about a lot of the newest
software today.
The cost of the some of the DB's is so much, you could hire someone in a
India to take orders over the TELEPHONE log it into QuickBooks by hand,
then port it over to my JAGUAR, Oracle DB when I have the money if I so wished.
YOU ARE SO CLUELESS, no one said give everything away for free. BUT SQL
Server should not cost more than all of the other equipment put together.
DID you ever hear of WAL-MART? That's a lot different than Saks 5th
Avenue.
"William Ryan" <do********@nospam.comcast.net> wrote in message
news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl... Please, Please knock me down. You've proven your understanding of
markets too well .... and it isn't much.
No one ever ever forces you to buy software, at least in the USA. If
so, there's a legal provision called coercion, which invalidates contracts. If any of your mom and pop welfare agencies can prove a MS rep put a gun up
to there head, please let me know, I'll file the request for them.
Regarding my Porsche, let me use my Jaguar as an example....
It breaks down all the time but I look cool in it.
It leaks oil and everything else all the time <Why don't they make
Computers in England? B/C they can't figure out how to make them leak oil----No
offense to the English--We have plenty wrong with us over here> There
are like six qualified mechanics where I live, and they are never open when
you need them.
I can't get a reimbursement for a tow or time lost when the water pump
breaks or my other ailment du jour.
I can't charge my Mom and Pop clients enough to buy an XK..and everyone
knows if you buy a jag, you need two of them so you have one for when
the other is in the shop.
My Jaguar dealership never promised me it wouldn't break down, they
don't even pretend like it won't. But they will tell you that you'll look
cool in one.
I wish I could not have to buy a new one every year. Well, actually I
don't, every two years. Those darned leasing companies!
Oh, If I could only turn my XJ6 for an XK. If anyone at Jaguar is
listening...I'm one of your most loyal customers....Please Please Please let me do an even trade for my 2001 XJ6 and get a 2003 XK.
Can I ever get my Jag fixed during the week? Not where I live, even
though they want to, too many people ahead of me.
No, no software can ever be as fun as Jag convertible. Yukon will come
close. C# has done a great job. But for pure fun....even with my three
letter postfix (MBA), nothing can compete with a Jag software wise.
Satisfied customer...yes, William Ryan do********@comcast.net Loves
Loves Loves SQL Server and C# and Jags. The first two will help me buy a 911
soon enough, and don't even get me started on Watches.
Please Mr. I Sell Software to the Welfare Agency B/C They like it
software genius....please, put me in my place.
BTW, please also explain the markets to me. I'd love to understand your
theory on Monetary Velocity and its effects on inflation or the
Econometric Quantification of Capital Gains Tax Manipulation (I wrote my Master's
thesis on the latter, and I'd love your opinions on it since you can teach me a
thing or two about both software and economics.)
Please cc me at wr***@infoprogroup.com I'd love to share this with
my co-workers who make fun of my jag every day.
Cheers,
Bill
"nospam" <n@ntspam.com> wrote in message
news:#L**************@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl... I understand the market more than you do and can EASILY see the .php
extension on web sites.
I also see it on job postings and on shopping carts.
MORE COMMENTS BELOW, especially to your Porsche911
"William Ryan" <do********@nospam.comcast.net> wrote in message
news:uq*************@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> I use both MySQL and MSDE and at the moment, still prefer MSDE in
that it > supports Stored Procs and you can use T-SQL constructs quite easily.
Your > post indicates a lack of understanding about both the market and the
> product, so much so, that I feel guilty even responding. It's too
bad we > live in a capilatistic society where people expect to get paid for their > work, particularly those evil MS Software engineers. They don't
have to > feed their families or anything, nor do they deserve compensation
for all of
> their hard work. Heck, newsgroup malcontents provide every bit as much of a
> service as do talented engineers at Microsoft.
>
> If they can't afford it, don't buy it. Reduced demand will shift market > prices. That's why Oracle costs a fraction of what it did during
the .Com > boom. Do me a favor, I've been eying a Porsche 911 for a while, but
a bit > out of my price range. Can you please send them a similar e-mail
indicating
> that a mom and pop's son can't afford their car and see if I can get one for
> say 25k? I could sell my software services for a lot less if I
could get a
> 25K Porsche, and then I could even cater to mom and pop's
everywhere.
Could you send me a e-mail letting me know when software bugs will end
my Porsche911 doesn't break down on the road you know each week like your
software does?
How about another e-mail when I don't have to constantly upgrade my
software each year?
It's not like I have to buy a new car or house each year but for some
reason with software you do. I also have a 5 year warranty on my Porsche 911 and I don't even have to pay maintenance on it as it's all included in the
cost as well.
Could you also send me another e-mail where I don't have to wait on
customer support for over an hour?
Also, how about another e-mail letting me know that the developer I am
using, even though he's certified and has every single 3 or 4 letter
acronym on his business card I can imagine is ever going to get around to
coding the thing and making the software and for once, make it easy to use as my
Porsche911?
And can I trade in my SQL Server 2K for the new Yukon and get an
Upgrade Price like I can with Porsche911?
Please send me an e-mail when I can trade in my old database also get
get a resale like I can with my Porsche911?
And if possible, can you send me another e-mail letting me know of
really happy and satisfied customers like all the other Porsche911 owners
there are out there....thousands and thousands......
And what about all those bells and whistles that the developer was
promising? Did I really need that? How about an ROI?
Oh, and by the WAY
Get off your high horse, or I will really knock you down just like I
do with the others.
I'd
> love to see Mom and pops administering SQL Server too, that must be
a lot of
> fun.
>
> BTW, which conference? What software? Why did I just waste 5
minutes > responding to this dribble? (and as the other guy mentioned, I
think you > may need a new keyboard becuase I doubt anyone would be so ill mannered and
> unprofessional to post in a serious newsgroup with to many words
> capitailzed for emphasis).
>
> Cheers,
>
> Bill
>
> "nospam" <n@ntspam.com> wrote in message
> news:uk**************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> > MSDE is a COMPLETE MARKETING and LICENSING/VERSION FAILURE as ZERO
PEOPLE
> > USE IT for anything, even development.
> >
> > I have heard Gurus, .NET authors, UserGroups, .NET Evangelists,
RD's and > > MVP's mention it as an alternative to MySQL.
> >
> > TOTAL B.S. and CLUELESSNESS on their part as well as Microsoft.
> >
> > It's the developer who is going to create the database anyway and
anyone > who
> > wants to use SQL Server has got an MSDN Universal Subscription
anyway. > AND
> > then this developer has to tell his entreprenuer client the costs
involved
> > and then they look at "alternatives" and they other non-.NET
> > developers...hence PHP, MySql.
> >
> > These entreprenuers don't have millions of dollars and are just trying to
> > make it like anyone else. They are not going to pour or PUT every
dollar
> > into their web server and database as there are OTHER things to
BUY as > well
> > in a business.....BUSINESSES do have other things to BUY and PAY
for than
> > just SOFTWARE.
> >
> >
>
>
I cater to the entrepreneur market that ends up with web sites like eBay and
Yahoo.
I cater to the "MASSES".
Ever hear of "Sell to the masses".......do you know what that means?
That's how the PC got started.....Ever hear of the Personal Computer that
can run a small doctor's office, or small lawfirm...., they don't need
mainframes.
Ever hear of Wal-Mart? Do you know how they got started?
I will ignore your web site, www.infoprogroup.com, for now......
"William Ryan" <do********@nospam.comcast.net> wrote in message
news:O0*************@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl... Is it really? That's cool. I always liked my Jag, but comparing it to an
Oracle DB. A little about myself. I was a actuary by profession, hard
core nerd. Learned ORacle from there, on Solaris. Grew into a Java
Programmer. Then, when I hated MS, I got a job where they didn't care about my 3:33t
Oracle sk1llz. So I learned SQL Server. Gained tons of respect for it.
I do cater to 1% of the market. As a matter of fact, the Department of
Defense will vouche for this, I am the lead developer on one of the most
widely used Pocket PC/SqlServer CE apps marketed right now. A product
that generates nothing under 35k on a minimal install................and we
have more demand than supply at the moment.
It rocks, and in January, that 911 is mine, hopefully, BC I SPEND MY TIME
WRITING CODE, KEEPING IT REAL, and making stuff happen instead of whining.
Let me know what marekt you cater to... I would like to relieve you of the
the pressure of accomodating it. If you would only post a real name,
then we could see your web site.....here's mine.... www.infoprogroup.com
...........let's see yours..... Four more mom and pops and that Porsche is
mine! Mwuahhahahaha
"nospam" <n@ntspam.com> wrote in message
news:Oj*************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl... Dribble......
Well Mr. High END, did it ever occur to your that your High END Jaguar
is like an Oracle DB?
HOWEVER, if you want to cater to only 1% of the market for Porsche and Jags, than be stupid.
GM, Ford, Toyota, Honda, etc all cater to the high end and LOW end...and
guess what? The quality is so good, YOU can buy USED cars and they
don't break down on you.
These same cars can get you from Point A to point B just as well........
AND DO I really NEED something that fast to get to work? Do I really need a
helicopter to get to work?
A lot of everyday people still use that Toyota pickup truck that has
500,000 miles on it......TOO bad nothing can be said about a lot of the newest
software today.
The cost of the some of the DB's is so much, you could hire someone in a
India to take orders over the TELEPHONE log it into QuickBooks by hand,
then port it over to my JAGUAR, Oracle DB when I have the money if I so
wished.
YOU ARE SO CLUELESS, no one said give everything away for free. BUT SQL
Server should not cost more than all of the other equipment put
together.
DID you ever hear of WAL-MART? That's a lot different than Saks 5th
Avenue.
"William Ryan" <do********@nospam.comcast.net> wrote in message
news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl... Please, Please knock me down. You've proven your understanding of markets too well .... and it isn't much.
No one ever ever forces you to buy software, at least in the USA. If so, there's a legal provision called coercion, which invalidates
contracts. If any of your mom and pop welfare agencies can prove a MS rep put a gun
up to there head, please let me know, I'll file the request for them.
Regarding my Porsche, let me use my Jaguar as an example....
It breaks down all the time but I look cool in it.
It leaks oil and everything else all the time <Why don't they make
Computers in England? B/C they can't figure out how to make them leak oil----No
offense to the English--We have plenty wrong with us over here> There are like six qualified mechanics where I live, and they are never open
when you need them.
I can't get a reimbursement for a tow or time lost when the water pump
breaks or my other ailment du jour.
I can't charge my Mom and Pop clients enough to buy an XK..and
everyone knows if you buy a jag, you need two of them so you have one for when
the other is in the shop.
My Jaguar dealership never promised me it wouldn't break down, they don't even pretend like it won't. But they will tell you that you'll look cool in one.
I wish I could not have to buy a new one every year. Well, actually I
don't, every two years. Those darned leasing companies!
Oh, If I could only turn my XJ6 for an XK. If anyone at Jaguar is
listening...I'm one of your most loyal customers....Please Please
Please let me do an even trade for my 2001 XJ6 and get a 2003 XK.
Can I ever get my Jag fixed during the week? Not where I live, even
though they want to, too many people ahead of me.
No, no software can ever be as fun as Jag convertible. Yukon will
come close. C# has done a great job. But for pure fun....even with my
three letter postfix (MBA), nothing can compete with a Jag software wise.
Satisfied customer...yes, William Ryan do********@comcast.net Loves
Loves Loves SQL Server and C# and Jags. The first two will help me buy a
911 soon enough, and don't even get me started on Watches.
Please Mr. I Sell Software to the Welfare Agency B/C They like it software genius....please, put me in my place.
BTW, please also explain the markets to me. I'd love to understand
your theory on Monetary Velocity and its effects on inflation or the
Econometric Quantification of Capital Gains Tax Manipulation (I wrote my Master's
thesis on the latter, and I'd love your opinions on it since you can teach me
a thing or two about both software and economics.)
Please cc me at wr***@infoprogroup.com I'd love to share this with
my co-workers who make fun of my jag every day.
Cheers,
Bill
"nospam" <n@ntspam.com> wrote in message
news:#L**************@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> I understand the market more than you do and can EASILY see the .php
> extension on web sites.
>
> I also see it on job postings and on shopping carts.
>
> MORE COMMENTS BELOW, especially to your Porsche911
>
>
> "William Ryan" <do********@nospam.comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:uq*************@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> > I use both MySQL and MSDE and at the moment, still prefer MSDE in that it
> > supports Stored Procs and you can use T-SQL constructs quite
easily. Your
> > post indicates a lack of understanding about both the market and
the > > product, so much so, that I feel guilty even responding. It's too bad we
> > live in a capilatistic society where people expect to get paid for
their > > work, particularly those evil MS Software engineers. They don't have to > > feed their families or anything, nor do they deserve compensation
for all
> of
> > their hard work. Heck, newsgroup malcontents provide every bit as
much of
> a
> > service as do talented engineers at Microsoft.
> >
> > If they can't afford it, don't buy it. Reduced demand will shift
market > > prices. That's why Oracle costs a fraction of what it did during the .Com
> > boom. Do me a favor, I've been eying a Porsche 911 for a while,
but a bit
> > out of my price range. Can you please send them a similar e-mail
> indicating
> > that a mom and pop's son can't afford their car and see if I can
get one > for
> > say 25k? I could sell my software services for a lot less if I could get
> a
> > 25K Porsche, and then I could even cater to mom and pop's everywhere. >
>
>
> Could you send me a e-mail letting me know when software bugs will
end my > Porsche911 doesn't break down on the road you know each week like
your > software does?
>
> How about another e-mail when I don't have to constantly upgrade my
software
> each year?
>
> It's not like I have to buy a new car or house each year but for
some reason
> with software you do. I also have a 5 year warranty on my Porsche
911 and I
> don't even have to pay maintenance on it as it's all included in the cost as
> well.
>
> Could you also send me another e-mail where I don't have to wait on
customer
> support for over an hour?
>
> Also, how about another e-mail letting me know that the developer I
am > using, even though he's certified and has every single 3 or 4 letter
acronym
> on his business card I can imagine is ever going to get around to
coding the
> thing and making the software and for once, make it easy to use as
my > Porsche911?
>
> And can I trade in my SQL Server 2K for the new Yukon and get an Upgrade > Price like I can with Porsche911?
>
> Please send me an e-mail when I can trade in my old database also
get get a
> resale like I can with my Porsche911?
>
> And if possible, can you send me another e-mail letting me know of
really > happy and satisfied customers like all the other Porsche911 owners there are
> out there....thousands and thousands......
>
> And what about all those bells and whistles that the developer was
> promising? Did I really need that? How about an ROI?
>
>
> Oh, and by the WAY
>
> Get off your high horse, or I will really knock you down just like I do with
> the others.
>
>
>
>
> I'd
> > love to see Mom and pops administering SQL Server too, that must
be a lot
> of
> > fun.
> >
> > BTW, which conference? What software? Why did I just waste 5 minutes > > responding to this dribble? (and as the other guy mentioned, I think you
> > may need a new keyboard becuase I doubt anyone would be so ill
mannered > and
> > unprofessional to post in a serious newsgroup with to many words
> > capitailzed for emphasis).
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Bill
> >
> > "nospam" <n@ntspam.com> wrote in message
> > news:uk**************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> > > MSDE is a COMPLETE MARKETING and LICENSING/VERSION FAILURE as
ZERO > PEOPLE
> > > USE IT for anything, even development.
> > >
> > > I have heard Gurus, .NET authors, UserGroups, .NET Evangelists,
RD's and
> > > MVP's mention it as an alternative to MySQL.
> > >
> > > TOTAL B.S. and CLUELESSNESS on their part as well as Microsoft.
> > >
> > > It's the developer who is going to create the database anyway
and anyone
> > who
> > > wants to use SQL Server has got an MSDN Universal Subscription
anyway. > > AND
> > > then this developer has to tell his entreprenuer client the
costs > involved
> > > and then they look at "alternatives" and they other non-.NET
> > > developers...hence PHP, MySql.
> > >
> > > These entreprenuers don't have millions of dollars and are just
trying > to
> > > make it like anyone else. They are not going to pour or PUT
every > dollar
> > > into their web server and database as there are OTHER things to BUY as > > well
> > > in a business.....BUSINESSES do have other things to BUY and PAY
for > than
> > > just SOFTWARE.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Yes, and you are the reason they
succeeded....................................Phony !
"nospam" <n@ntspam.com> wrote in message
news:#U**************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl... I cater to the entrepreneur market that ends up with web sites like eBay
and Yahoo.
I cater to the "MASSES".
Ever hear of "Sell to the masses".......do you know what that means?
That's how the PC got started.....Ever hear of the Personal Computer that
can run a small doctor's office, or small lawfirm...., they don't need
mainframes.
Ever hear of Wal-Mart? Do you know how they got started?
I will ignore your web site, www.infoprogroup.com, for now......
"William Ryan" <do********@nospam.comcast.net> wrote in message
news:O0*************@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl... Is it really? That's cool. I always liked my Jag, but comparing it to
an Oracle DB. A little about myself. I was a actuary by profession, hard core nerd. Learned ORacle from there, on Solaris. Grew into a Java
Programmer. Then, when I hated MS, I got a job where they didn't care about my 3:33t
Oracle sk1llz. So I learned SQL Server. Gained tons of respect for it.
I do cater to 1% of the market. As a matter of fact, the Department of
Defense will vouche for this, I am the lead developer on one of the most
widely used Pocket PC/SqlServer CE apps marketed right now. A product
that generates nothing under 35k on a minimal install................and we
have more demand than supply at the moment.
It rocks, and in January, that 911 is mine, hopefully, BC I SPEND MY
TIME WRITING CODE, KEEPING IT REAL, and making stuff happen instead of
whining.
Let me know what marekt you cater to... I would like to relieve you of
the the pressure of accomodating it. If you would only post a real name,
then we could see your web site.....here's mine....
www.infoprogroup.com ...........let's see yours..... Four more mom and pops and that Porsche
is mine! Mwuahhahahaha
"nospam" <n@ntspam.com> wrote in message
news:Oj*************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl... Dribble......
Well Mr. High END, did it ever occur to your that your High END Jaguar is like an Oracle DB?
HOWEVER, if you want to cater to only 1% of the market for Porsche and
Jags, than be stupid.
GM, Ford, Toyota, Honda, etc all cater to the high end and LOW
end...and guess what? The quality is so good, YOU can buy USED cars and they don't break down on you.
These same cars can get you from Point A to point B just as
well........ AND DO I really NEED something that fast to get to work? Do I really need
a helicopter to get to work?
A lot of everyday people still use that Toyota pickup truck that has
500,000 miles on it......TOO bad nothing can be said about a lot of the newest
software today.
The cost of the some of the DB's is so much, you could hire someone in
a India to take orders over the TELEPHONE log it into QuickBooks by
hand, then port it over to my JAGUAR, Oracle DB when I have the money if I so wished.
YOU ARE SO CLUELESS, no one said give everything away for free. BUT
SQL Server should not cost more than all of the other equipment put
together.
DID you ever hear of WAL-MART? That's a lot different than Saks 5th
Avenue.
"William Ryan" <do********@nospam.comcast.net> wrote in message
news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> Please, Please knock me down. You've proven your understanding of
markets > too well .... and it isn't much.
>
> No one ever ever forces you to buy software, at least in the USA.
If so, > there's a legal provision called coercion, which invalidates contracts. If
> any of your mom and pop welfare agencies can prove a MS rep put a
gun up to
> there head, please let me know, I'll file the request for them.
>
> Regarding my Porsche, let me use my Jaguar as an example....
>
> It breaks down all the time but I look cool in it.
>
> It leaks oil and everything else all the time <Why don't they make
Computers
> in England? B/C they can't figure out how to make them leak
oil----No > offense to the English--We have plenty wrong with us over here>
There are > like six qualified mechanics where I live, and they are never open when you
> need them.
>
> I can't get a reimbursement for a tow or time lost when the water
pump > breaks or my other ailment du jour.
>
> I can't charge my Mom and Pop clients enough to buy an XK..and everyone > knows if you buy a jag, you need two of them so you have one for
when the > other is in the shop.
>
> My Jaguar dealership never promised me it wouldn't break down, they
don't > even pretend like it won't. But they will tell you that you'll look
cool in
> one.
>
> I wish I could not have to buy a new one every year. Well, actually
I > don't, every two years. Those darned leasing companies!
>
>
> Oh, If I could only turn my XJ6 for an XK. If anyone at Jaguar is
> listening...I'm one of your most loyal customers....Please Please Please let
> me do an even trade for my 2001 XJ6 and get a 2003 XK.
>
> Can I ever get my Jag fixed during the week? Not where I live, even
though
> they want to, too many people ahead of me.
>
> No, no software can ever be as fun as Jag convertible. Yukon will come > close. C# has done a great job. But for pure fun....even with my three > letter postfix (MBA), nothing can compete with a Jag software wise.
>
> Satisfied customer...yes, William Ryan do********@comcast.net
Loves Loves
> Loves SQL Server and C# and Jags. The first two will help me buy a 911 soon
> enough, and don't even get me started on Watches.
>
> Please Mr. I Sell Software to the Welfare Agency B/C They like it
software > genius....please, put me in my place.
>
> BTW, please also explain the markets to me. I'd love to understand your > theory on Monetary Velocity and its effects on inflation or the
Econometric
> Quantification of Capital Gains Tax Manipulation (I wrote my
Master's thesis
> on the latter, and I'd love your opinions on it since you can teach
me a > thing or two about both software and economics.)
>
> Please cc me at wr***@infoprogroup.com I'd love to share this
with my > co-workers who make fun of my jag every day.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Bill
>
>
> "nospam" <n@ntspam.com> wrote in message
> news:#L**************@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> > I understand the market more than you do and can EASILY see the
..php > > extension on web sites.
> >
> > I also see it on job postings and on shopping carts.
> >
> > MORE COMMENTS BELOW, especially to your Porsche911
> >
> >
> > "William Ryan" <do********@nospam.comcast.net> wrote in message
> > news:uq*************@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> > > I use both MySQL and MSDE and at the moment, still prefer MSDE
in that > it
> > > supports Stored Procs and you can use T-SQL constructs quite easily. > Your
> > > post indicates a lack of understanding about both the market and the > > > product, so much so, that I feel guilty even responding. It's
too bad > we
> > > live in a capilatistic society where people expect to get paid
for their
> > > work, particularly those evil MS Software engineers. They don't have to
> > > feed their families or anything, nor do they deserve
compensation for > all
> > of
> > > their hard work. Heck, newsgroup malcontents provide every bit
as much
> of
> > a
> > > service as do talented engineers at Microsoft.
> > >
> > > If they can't afford it, don't buy it. Reduced demand will
shift market
> > > prices. That's why Oracle costs a fraction of what it did
during the > .Com
> > > boom. Do me a favor, I've been eying a Porsche 911 for a while, but a > bit
> > > out of my price range. Can you please send them a similar
e-mail > > indicating
> > > that a mom and pop's son can't afford their car and see if I can
get one
> > for
> > > say 25k? I could sell my software services for a lot less if I
could > get
> > a
> > > 25K Porsche, and then I could even cater to mom and pop's
everywhere. > >
> >
> >
> > Could you send me a e-mail letting me know when software bugs will end my
> > Porsche911 doesn't break down on the road you know each week like your > > software does?
> >
> > How about another e-mail when I don't have to constantly upgrade
my > software
> > each year?
> >
> > It's not like I have to buy a new car or house each year but for some > reason
> > with software you do. I also have a 5 year warranty on my Porsche 911 and
> I
> > don't even have to pay maintenance on it as it's all included in
the cost
> as
> > well.
> >
> > Could you also send me another e-mail where I don't have to wait
on > customer
> > support for over an hour?
> >
> > Also, how about another e-mail letting me know that the developer
I am > > using, even though he's certified and has every single 3 or 4
letter > acronym
> > on his business card I can imagine is ever going to get around to
coding > the
> > thing and making the software and for once, make it easy to use as
my > > Porsche911?
> >
> > And can I trade in my SQL Server 2K for the new Yukon and get an
Upgrade > > Price like I can with Porsche911?
> >
> > Please send me an e-mail when I can trade in my old database also get get
> a
> > resale like I can with my Porsche911?
> >
> > And if possible, can you send me another e-mail letting me know of
really
> > happy and satisfied customers like all the other Porsche911 owners
there > are
> > out there....thousands and thousands......
> >
> > And what about all those bells and whistles that the developer was
> > promising? Did I really need that? How about an ROI?
> >
> >
> > Oh, and by the WAY
> >
> > Get off your high horse, or I will really knock you down just like
I do > with
> > the others.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I'd
> > > love to see Mom and pops administering SQL Server too, that must be a > lot
> > of
> > > fun.
> > >
> > > BTW, which conference? What software? Why did I just waste 5
minutes > > > responding to this dribble? (and as the other guy mentioned, I
think > you
> > > may need a new keyboard becuase I doubt anyone would be so ill
mannered
> > and
> > > unprofessional to post in a serious newsgroup with to many
words > > > capitailzed for emphasis).
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > >
> > > Bill
> > >
> > > "nospam" <n@ntspam.com> wrote in message
> > > news:uk**************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> > > > MSDE is a COMPLETE MARKETING and LICENSING/VERSION FAILURE as
ZERO > > PEOPLE
> > > > USE IT for anything, even development.
> > > >
> > > > I have heard Gurus, .NET authors, UserGroups, .NET
Evangelists, RD's > and
> > > > MVP's mention it as an alternative to MySQL.
> > > >
> > > > TOTAL B.S. and CLUELESSNESS on their part as well as
Microsoft. > > > >
> > > > It's the developer who is going to create the database anyway and > anyone
> > > who
> > > > wants to use SQL Server has got an MSDN Universal Subscription
anyway.
> > > AND
> > > > then this developer has to tell his entreprenuer client the costs > > involved
> > > > and then they look at "alternatives" and they other non-.NET
> > > > developers...hence PHP, MySql.
> > > >
> > > > These entreprenuers don't have millions of dollars and are
just trying
> > to
> > > > make it like anyone else. They are not going to pour or PUT every > > dollar
> > > > into their web server and database as there are OTHER things
to BUY as
> > > well
> > > > in a business.....BUSINESSES do have other things to BUY and
PAY for > > than
> > > > just SOFTWARE.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Heard of all of the above, and I HEREBY CHALLENGE YOU to prove what you say.
EBAY, show us the link where they vouch for you!.....
"nospam" <n@ntspam.com> wrote in message
news:#U**************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl... I cater to the entrepreneur market that ends up with web sites like eBay
and Yahoo.
I cater to the "MASSES".
Ever hear of "Sell to the masses".......do you know what that means?
That's how the PC got started.....Ever hear of the Personal Computer that
can run a small doctor's office, or small lawfirm...., they don't need
mainframes.
Ever hear of Wal-Mart? Do you know how they got started?
I will ignore your web site, www.infoprogroup.com, for now......
"William Ryan" <do********@nospam.comcast.net> wrote in message
news:O0*************@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl... Is it really? That's cool. I always liked my Jag, but comparing it to
an Oracle DB. A little about myself. I was a actuary by profession, hard core nerd. Learned ORacle from there, on Solaris. Grew into a Java
Programmer. Then, when I hated MS, I got a job where they didn't care about my 3:33t
Oracle sk1llz. So I learned SQL Server. Gained tons of respect for it.
I do cater to 1% of the market. As a matter of fact, the Department of
Defense will vouche for this, I am the lead developer on one of the most
widely used Pocket PC/SqlServer CE apps marketed right now. A product
that generates nothing under 35k on a minimal install................and we
have more demand than supply at the moment.
It rocks, and in January, that 911 is mine, hopefully, BC I SPEND MY
TIME WRITING CODE, KEEPING IT REAL, and making stuff happen instead of
whining.
Let me know what marekt you cater to... I would like to relieve you of
the the pressure of accomodating it. If you would only post a real name,
then we could see your web site.....here's mine....
www.infoprogroup.com ...........let's see yours..... Four more mom and pops and that Porsche
is mine! Mwuahhahahaha
"nospam" <n@ntspam.com> wrote in message
news:Oj*************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl... Dribble......
Well Mr. High END, did it ever occur to your that your High END Jaguar is like an Oracle DB?
HOWEVER, if you want to cater to only 1% of the market for Porsche and
Jags, than be stupid.
GM, Ford, Toyota, Honda, etc all cater to the high end and LOW
end...and guess what? The quality is so good, YOU can buy USED cars and they don't break down on you.
These same cars can get you from Point A to point B just as
well........ AND DO I really NEED something that fast to get to work? Do I really need
a helicopter to get to work?
A lot of everyday people still use that Toyota pickup truck that has
500,000 miles on it......TOO bad nothing can be said about a lot of the newest
software today.
The cost of the some of the DB's is so much, you could hire someone in
a India to take orders over the TELEPHONE log it into QuickBooks by
hand, then port it over to my JAGUAR, Oracle DB when I have the money if I so wished.
YOU ARE SO CLUELESS, no one said give everything away for free. BUT
SQL Server should not cost more than all of the other equipment put
together.
DID you ever hear of WAL-MART? That's a lot different than Saks 5th
Avenue.
"William Ryan" <do********@nospam.comcast.net> wrote in message
news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> Please, Please knock me down. You've proven your understanding of
markets > too well .... and it isn't much.
>
> No one ever ever forces you to buy software, at least in the USA.
If so, > there's a legal provision called coercion, which invalidates contracts. If
> any of your mom and pop welfare agencies can prove a MS rep put a
gun up to
> there head, please let me know, I'll file the request for them.
>
> Regarding my Porsche, let me use my Jaguar as an example....
>
> It breaks down all the time but I look cool in it.
>
> It leaks oil and everything else all the time <Why don't they make
Computers
> in England? B/C they can't figure out how to make them leak
oil----No > offense to the English--We have plenty wrong with us over here>
There are > like six qualified mechanics where I live, and they are never open when you
> need them.
>
> I can't get a reimbursement for a tow or time lost when the water
pump > breaks or my other ailment du jour.
>
> I can't charge my Mom and Pop clients enough to buy an XK..and everyone > knows if you buy a jag, you need two of them so you have one for
when the > other is in the shop.
>
> My Jaguar dealership never promised me it wouldn't break down, they
don't > even pretend like it won't. But they will tell you that you'll look
cool in
> one.
>
> I wish I could not have to buy a new one every year. Well, actually
I > don't, every two years. Those darned leasing companies!
>
>
> Oh, If I could only turn my XJ6 for an XK. If anyone at Jaguar is
> listening...I'm one of your most loyal customers....Please Please Please let
> me do an even trade for my 2001 XJ6 and get a 2003 XK.
>
> Can I ever get my Jag fixed during the week? Not where I live, even
though
> they want to, too many people ahead of me.
>
> No, no software can ever be as fun as Jag convertible. Yukon will come > close. C# has done a great job. But for pure fun....even with my three > letter postfix (MBA), nothing can compete with a Jag software wise.
>
> Satisfied customer...yes, William Ryan do********@comcast.net
Loves Loves
> Loves SQL Server and C# and Jags. The first two will help me buy a 911 soon
> enough, and don't even get me started on Watches.
>
> Please Mr. I Sell Software to the Welfare Agency B/C They like it
software > genius....please, put me in my place.
>
> BTW, please also explain the markets to me. I'd love to understand your > theory on Monetary Velocity and its effects on inflation or the
Econometric
> Quantification of Capital Gains Tax Manipulation (I wrote my
Master's thesis
> on the latter, and I'd love your opinions on it since you can teach
me a > thing or two about both software and economics.)
>
> Please cc me at wr***@infoprogroup.com I'd love to share this
with my > co-workers who make fun of my jag every day.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Bill
>
>
> "nospam" <n@ntspam.com> wrote in message
> news:#L**************@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> > I understand the market more than you do and can EASILY see the
..php > > extension on web sites.
> >
> > I also see it on job postings and on shopping carts.
> >
> > MORE COMMENTS BELOW, especially to your Porsche911
> >
> >
> > "William Ryan" <do********@nospam.comcast.net> wrote in message
> > news:uq*************@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> > > I use both MySQL and MSDE and at the moment, still prefer MSDE
in that > it
> > > supports Stored Procs and you can use T-SQL constructs quite easily. > Your
> > > post indicates a lack of understanding about both the market and the > > > product, so much so, that I feel guilty even responding. It's
too bad > we
> > > live in a capilatistic society where people expect to get paid
for their
> > > work, particularly those evil MS Software engineers. They don't have to
> > > feed their families or anything, nor do they deserve
compensation for > all
> > of
> > > their hard work. Heck, newsgroup malcontents provide every bit
as much
> of
> > a
> > > service as do talented engineers at Microsoft.
> > >
> > > If they can't afford it, don't buy it. Reduced demand will
shift market
> > > prices. That's why Oracle costs a fraction of what it did
during the > .Com
> > > boom. Do me a favor, I've been eying a Porsche 911 for a while, but a > bit
> > > out of my price range. Can you please send them a similar
e-mail > > indicating
> > > that a mom and pop's son can't afford their car and see if I can
get one
> > for
> > > say 25k? I could sell my software services for a lot less if I
could > get
> > a
> > > 25K Porsche, and then I could even cater to mom and pop's
everywhere. > >
> >
> >
> > Could you send me a e-mail letting me know when software bugs will end my
> > Porsche911 doesn't break down on the road you know each week like your > > software does?
> >
> > How about another e-mail when I don't have to constantly upgrade
my > software
> > each year?
> >
> > It's not like I have to buy a new car or house each year but for some > reason
> > with software you do. I also have a 5 year warranty on my Porsche 911 and
> I
> > don't even have to pay maintenance on it as it's all included in
the cost
> as
> > well.
> >
> > Could you also send me another e-mail where I don't have to wait
on > customer
> > support for over an hour?
> >
> > Also, how about another e-mail letting me know that the developer
I am > > using, even though he's certified and has every single 3 or 4
letter > acronym
> > on his business card I can imagine is ever going to get around to
coding > the
> > thing and making the software and for once, make it easy to use as
my > > Porsche911?
> >
> > And can I trade in my SQL Server 2K for the new Yukon and get an
Upgrade > > Price like I can with Porsche911?
> >
> > Please send me an e-mail when I can trade in my old database also get get
> a
> > resale like I can with my Porsche911?
> >
> > And if possible, can you send me another e-mail letting me know of
really
> > happy and satisfied customers like all the other Porsche911 owners
there > are
> > out there....thousands and thousands......
> >
> > And what about all those bells and whistles that the developer was
> > promising? Did I really need that? How about an ROI?
> >
> >
> > Oh, and by the WAY
> >
> > Get off your high horse, or I will really knock you down just like
I do > with
> > the others.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I'd
> > > love to see Mom and pops administering SQL Server too, that must be a > lot
> > of
> > > fun.
> > >
> > > BTW, which conference? What software? Why did I just waste 5
minutes > > > responding to this dribble? (and as the other guy mentioned, I
think > you
> > > may need a new keyboard becuase I doubt anyone would be so ill
mannered
> > and
> > > unprofessional to post in a serious newsgroup with to many
words > > > capitailzed for emphasis).
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > >
> > > Bill
> > >
> > > "nospam" <n@ntspam.com> wrote in message
> > > news:uk**************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> > > > MSDE is a COMPLETE MARKETING and LICENSING/VERSION FAILURE as
ZERO > > PEOPLE
> > > > USE IT for anything, even development.
> > > >
> > > > I have heard Gurus, .NET authors, UserGroups, .NET
Evangelists, RD's > and
> > > > MVP's mention it as an alternative to MySQL.
> > > >
> > > > TOTAL B.S. and CLUELESSNESS on their part as well as
Microsoft. > > > >
> > > > It's the developer who is going to create the database anyway and > anyone
> > > who
> > > > wants to use SQL Server has got an MSDN Universal Subscription
anyway.
> > > AND
> > > > then this developer has to tell his entreprenuer client the costs > > involved
> > > > and then they look at "alternatives" and they other non-.NET
> > > > developers...hence PHP, MySql.
> > > >
> > > > These entreprenuers don't have millions of dollars and are
just trying
> > to
> > > > make it like anyone else. They are not going to pour or PUT every > > dollar
> > > > into their web server and database as there are OTHER things
to BUY as
> > > well
> > > > in a business.....BUSINESSES do have other things to BUY and
PAY for > > than
> > > > just SOFTWARE.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
uhhhhh.........*LIKE* eBay and Yahoo.....
Read closely....is says "LIKE"............
"William Ryan" <do********@nospam.comcast.net> wrote in message
news:u7**************@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl... Heard of all of the above, and I HEREBY CHALLENGE YOU to prove what you
say. EBAY, show us the link where they vouch for you!.....
"nospam" <n@ntspam.com> wrote in message
news:#U**************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl... I cater to the entrepreneur market that ends up with web sites like eBay and Yahoo.
I cater to the "MASSES".
Ever hear of "Sell to the masses".......do you know what that means?
That's how the PC got started.....Ever hear of the Personal Computer
that can run a small doctor's office, or small lawfirm...., they don't need
mainframes.
Ever hear of Wal-Mart? Do you know how they got started?
I will ignore your web site, www.infoprogroup.com, for now......
"William Ryan" <do********@nospam.comcast.net> wrote in message
news:O0*************@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl... Is it really? That's cool. I always liked my Jag, but comparing it
to an Oracle DB. A little about myself. I was a actuary by profession,
hard core nerd. Learned ORacle from there, on Solaris. Grew into a Java Programmer. Then, when I hated MS, I got a job where they didn't care about my
3:33t Oracle sk1llz. So I learned SQL Server. Gained tons of respect for
it.
I do cater to 1% of the market. As a matter of fact, the Department
of Defense will vouche for this, I am the lead developer on one of the
most widely used Pocket PC/SqlServer CE apps marketed right now. A product
that generates nothing under 35k on a minimal install................and we
have more demand than supply at the moment.
It rocks, and in January, that 911 is mine, hopefully, BC I SPEND MY
TIME WRITING CODE, KEEPING IT REAL, and making stuff happen instead of whining.
Let me know what marekt you cater to... I would like to relieve you of the the pressure of accomodating it. If you would only post a real name,
then we could see your web site.....here's mine.... www.infoprogroup.com ...........let's see yours..... Four more mom and pops and that
Porsche is mine! Mwuahhahahaha
"nospam" <n@ntspam.com> wrote in message
news:Oj*************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> Dribble......
>
> Well Mr. High END, did it ever occur to your that your High END
Jaguar is > like an Oracle DB?
>
> HOWEVER, if you want to cater to only 1% of the market for Porsche
and Jags,
> than be stupid.
>
> GM, Ford, Toyota, Honda, etc all cater to the high end and LOW
end...and > guess what? The quality is so good, YOU can buy USED cars and they
don't > break down on you.
>
> These same cars can get you from Point A to point B just as well........ AND
> DO I really NEED something that fast to get to work? Do I really
need a > helicopter to get to work?
>
> A lot of everyday people still use that Toyota pickup truck that has
500,000
> miles on it......TOO bad nothing can be said about a lot of the
newest > software today.
>
> The cost of the some of the DB's is so much, you could hire someone
in a > India to take orders over the TELEPHONE log it into QuickBooks by hand, then
> port it over to my JAGUAR, Oracle DB when I have the money if I so wished. >
>
>
>
> YOU ARE SO CLUELESS, no one said give everything away for free. BUT SQL > Server should not cost more than all of the other equipment put
together. >
> DID you ever hear of WAL-MART? That's a lot different than Saks 5th
Avenue.
>
>
>
>
>
> "William Ryan" <do********@nospam.comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> > Please, Please knock me down. You've proven your understanding of
markets
> > too well .... and it isn't much.
> >
> > No one ever ever forces you to buy software, at least in the USA. If so,
> > there's a legal provision called coercion, which invalidates
contracts. > If
> > any of your mom and pop welfare agencies can prove a MS rep put a gun up > to
> > there head, please let me know, I'll file the request for them.
> >
> > Regarding my Porsche, let me use my Jaguar as an example....
> >
> > It breaks down all the time but I look cool in it.
> >
> > It leaks oil and everything else all the time <Why don't they make
> Computers
> > in England? B/C they can't figure out how to make them leak
oil----No > > offense to the English--We have plenty wrong with us over here> There are
> > like six qualified mechanics where I live, and they are never open
when > you
> > need them.
> >
> > I can't get a reimbursement for a tow or time lost when the water pump > > breaks or my other ailment du jour.
> >
> > I can't charge my Mom and Pop clients enough to buy an XK..and
everyone > > knows if you buy a jag, you need two of them so you have one for when the
> > other is in the shop.
> >
> > My Jaguar dealership never promised me it wouldn't break down,
they don't
> > even pretend like it won't. But they will tell you that you'll
look cool
> in
> > one.
> >
> > I wish I could not have to buy a new one every year. Well,
actually I > > don't, every two years. Those darned leasing companies!
> >
> >
> > Oh, If I could only turn my XJ6 for an XK. If anyone at Jaguar is
> > listening...I'm one of your most loyal customers....Please Please Please > let
> > me do an even trade for my 2001 XJ6 and get a 2003 XK.
> >
> > Can I ever get my Jag fixed during the week? Not where I live,
even > though
> > they want to, too many people ahead of me.
> >
> > No, no software can ever be as fun as Jag convertible. Yukon
will come > > close. C# has done a great job. But for pure fun....even with my
three > > letter postfix (MBA), nothing can compete with a Jag software
wise. > >
> > Satisfied customer...yes, William Ryan do********@comcast.net
Loves > Loves
> > Loves SQL Server and C# and Jags. The first two will help me buy
a 911 > soon
> > enough, and don't even get me started on Watches.
> >
> > Please Mr. I Sell Software to the Welfare Agency B/C They like it
software
> > genius....please, put me in my place.
> >
> > BTW, please also explain the markets to me. I'd love to
understand your > > theory on Monetary Velocity and its effects on inflation or the
> Econometric
> > Quantification of Capital Gains Tax Manipulation (I wrote my Master's > thesis
> > on the latter, and I'd love your opinions on it since you can
teach me a > > thing or two about both software and economics.)
> >
> > Please cc me at wr***@infoprogroup.com I'd love to share this with my
> > co-workers who make fun of my jag every day.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Bill
> >
> >
> > "nospam" <n@ntspam.com> wrote in message
> > news:#L**************@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> > > I understand the market more than you do and can EASILY see the .php > > > extension on web sites.
> > >
> > > I also see it on job postings and on shopping carts.
> > >
> > > MORE COMMENTS BELOW, especially to your Porsche911
> > >
> > >
> > > "William Ryan" <do********@nospam.comcast.net> wrote in message
> > > news:uq*************@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> > > > I use both MySQL and MSDE and at the moment, still prefer MSDE in that
> > it
> > > > supports Stored Procs and you can use T-SQL constructs quite
easily. > > Your
> > > > post indicates a lack of understanding about both the market
and the > > > > product, so much so, that I feel guilty even responding. It's too bad
> > we
> > > > live in a capilatistic society where people expect to get paid for > their
> > > > work, particularly those evil MS Software engineers. They
don't have
> to
> > > > feed their families or anything, nor do they deserve
compensation for
> > all
> > > of
> > > > their hard work. Heck, newsgroup malcontents provide every
bit as > much
> > of
> > > a
> > > > service as do talented engineers at Microsoft.
> > > >
> > > > If they can't afford it, don't buy it. Reduced demand will shift > market
> > > > prices. That's why Oracle costs a fraction of what it did during the
> > .Com
> > > > boom. Do me a favor, I've been eying a Porsche 911 for a
while, but a
> > bit
> > > > out of my price range. Can you please send them a similar e-mail > > > indicating
> > > > that a mom and pop's son can't afford their car and see if I
can get > one
> > > for
> > > > say 25k? I could sell my software services for a lot less if
I could
> > get
> > > a
> > > > 25K Porsche, and then I could even cater to mom and pop's
everywhere.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Could you send me a e-mail letting me know when software bugs
will end > my
> > > Porsche911 doesn't break down on the road you know each week
like your > > > software does?
> > >
> > > How about another e-mail when I don't have to constantly upgrade my > > software
> > > each year?
> > >
> > > It's not like I have to buy a new car or house each year but for some > > reason
> > > with software you do. I also have a 5 year warranty on my
Porsche 911 > and
> > I
> > > don't even have to pay maintenance on it as it's all included in the > cost
> > as
> > > well.
> > >
> > > Could you also send me another e-mail where I don't have to wait on > > customer
> > > support for over an hour?
> > >
> > > Also, how about another e-mail letting me know that the
developer I am > > > using, even though he's certified and has every single 3 or 4 letter > > acronym
> > > on his business card I can imagine is ever going to get around
to coding
> > the
> > > thing and making the software and for once, make it easy to use
as my > > > Porsche911?
> > >
> > > And can I trade in my SQL Server 2K for the new Yukon and get an
Upgrade
> > > Price like I can with Porsche911?
> > >
> > > Please send me an e-mail when I can trade in my old database
also get > get
> > a
> > > resale like I can with my Porsche911?
> > >
> > > And if possible, can you send me another e-mail letting me know
of > really
> > > happy and satisfied customers like all the other Porsche911
owners there
> > are
> > > out there....thousands and thousands......
> > >
> > > And what about all those bells and whistles that the developer
was > > > promising? Did I really need that? How about an ROI?
> > >
> > >
> > > Oh, and by the WAY
> > >
> > > Get off your high horse, or I will really knock you down just
like I do
> > with
> > > the others.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I'd
> > > > love to see Mom and pops administering SQL Server too, that
must be a
> > lot
> > > of
> > > > fun.
> > > >
> > > > BTW, which conference? What software? Why did I just waste 5
minutes
> > > > responding to this dribble? (and as the other guy mentioned,
I think
> > you
> > > > may need a new keyboard becuase I doubt anyone would be so ill
> mannered
> > > and
> > > > unprofessional to post in a serious newsgroup with to many
words > > > > capitailzed for emphasis).
> > > >
> > > > Cheers,
> > > >
> > > > Bill
> > > >
> > > > "nospam" <n@ntspam.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:uk**************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> > > > > MSDE is a COMPLETE MARKETING and LICENSING/VERSION FAILURE
as ZERO > > > PEOPLE
> > > > > USE IT for anything, even development.
> > > > >
> > > > > I have heard Gurus, .NET authors, UserGroups, .NET Evangelists, RD's
> > and
> > > > > MVP's mention it as an alternative to MySQL.
> > > > >
> > > > > TOTAL B.S. and CLUELESSNESS on their part as well as Microsoft. > > > > >
> > > > > It's the developer who is going to create the database
anyway and > > anyone
> > > > who
> > > > > wants to use SQL Server has got an MSDN Universal
Subscription > anyway.
> > > > AND
> > > > > then this developer has to tell his entreprenuer client the
costs > > > involved
> > > > > and then they look at "alternatives" and they other non-.NET
> > > > > developers...hence PHP, MySql.
> > > > >
> > > > > These entreprenuers don't have millions of dollars and are
just > trying
> > > to
> > > > > make it like anyone else. They are not going to pour or PUT
every > > > dollar
> > > > > into their web server and database as there are OTHER things to BUY
> as
> > > > well
> > > > > in a business.....BUSINESSES do have other things to BUY and PAY for
> > > than
> > > > > just SOFTWARE.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Check out http://www.microsoft.com/sql/msde/howtobuy/msdeuse.asp
You are completely wrong where you say MSDE cannot be used in a
production environment.
The URL's you've posted refer to SQL Server and not MSDE.
----------------
It states on the URL above that MSDE can be downloaded and used as
part of ASP.NET Web Matrix (used to develop your .NET website) and can
be used in production.
----------------
MSDE is SQL Server at the end of the day, just with some throttling to
control scalability. Once you need to move up because of number of
concurrent users/size of database you can very easily (no porting
required) move to SQL Server standard.
Tony Rogerson
SQL Server MVP
Daniel is right. You are funny.
"nospam" <n@ntspam.com> wrote in message
news:e4*************@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl... Don't be so stupid and arrogant Daniel....you are more than welcome to
join the other thread and be humiliated and proven wrong on every point just
the other poster. There is still a challenge out there to compare system of
2-tier versus n-Tier..... there is also no R.O.I. either....
Like I said....don't be stupid and arrogant.
"Daniel O'Connell" <on******@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:ST49b.444679$o%2.202388@sccrnsc02... The only reason this guy isn't on my killfilter already is his posts are
funny.
As much as I hate to have to post this, I've been enjoying the last
series of posts I saw started by this guy, as they were some of the funniest
things I've seen on the groups in some time, however, he really isn't to be
taken seriously. It extols the virtues of 2-tier web architecture over n-tier
(http://tinyurl.com/nceo)
However, for anyone who doesn't find humour in unfocused, mindless
ranting, filtering these posts may be a blessing, I suspect this will get ugly.
"nospam" <n@ntspam.com> wrote in message
news:uk**************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl... MSDE is a COMPLETE MARKETING and LICENSING/VERSION FAILURE as ZERO PEOPLE USE IT for anything, even development.
I have heard Gurus, .NET authors, UserGroups, .NET Evangelists, RD's
and MVP's mention it as an alternative to MySQL.
TOTAL B.S. and CLUELESSNESS on their part as well as Microsoft.
It's the developer who is going to create the database anyway and
anyone who wants to use SQL Server has got an MSDN Universal Subscription anyway.
AND then this developer has to tell his entreprenuer client the costs
involved and then they look at "alternatives" and they other non-.NET
developers...hence PHP, MySql.
These entreprenuers don't have millions of dollars and are just trying to make it like anyone else. They are not going to pour or PUT every dollar into their web server and database as there are OTHER things to BUY as
well in a business.....BUSINESSES do have other things to BUY and PAY for than just SOFTWARE.
In spite of myself I'm posting this....
Thanks Tony for verifying my take on MSDE.
Nospam, no I didn't read your url as its about SQL server and not MSDE!
You might want to try the MSDE FAQ that I spoon-fed you and find out you can
indeed use MSDE in production as reiterated by Tony Rogerson (SQL Server
MVP) http://www.microsoft.com/sql/msde/howtobuy/msdeuse.asp
Since your argument just fell about apart, how about that apology :-)
I'm not using the AS/400, I'm using PCs. The AS/400 is the primary server
for the Shopfloor apps. My system is a "Disaster Backup System" for a small
but very critical part of that system.
It does not connect to the AS/400 - which would be kind of pointless as it
HAS to run independently.
You are putting the cart before the horse - an AS/400 should be in the
startup's vocabulary if the application demands it. A low end one can be
had for about $10,000.
Its all about applications. Not everything is Internet/.COM related.
Thinking (like you) that it is and nothing else matters is extremely
short-sighted.
Startup != .COM
Try thinking outside your little box.
Would the company I work for use PC servers running MySQL for their
financials - not a chance. Its AS/400 all the way (which just happens to
cost $$$) but the thing we're buying with that money is uptime.
When was the last time your PC crashed (running Windows or Linux - doesn't
matter). When was the last time our AS/400 crashed - how about NEVER, 8
years and 2 hardware platform changes later and IT DOESN'T CRASH - PERIOD.
You said "NO ONE USES IT" - meaning MSDE.
I use it - therefore you ARE WRONG (and CLUELESS - your words).
The only thing STUPID about me is trying to reason with a zealot - YOU!
I should have known better, anyone with any experience knows you are "full
of it".
Its like a religious war with you - they are called that for a reason, blind
faith to your "position" - there is no reasoning with the people involved.
I believe in the right tool for the job, MySQL, PHP, Oracle, SQL Server,
PCs. XP, AS/400, Access, Java, C++, C#, Delphi, VB, Assembler, 2-tier,
3-tier - all have their place in the world - just not in your narrow view of
the world.
I have programmed to some degree over the last 20 years using most of
these - can you say the same? I actually considered using MySQL for this
job but why should I when MSDE is free and SQL compatible.
For the record, I have never worked for a .COM company! Not that I wouldn't
but I understand the fact you can't make money without sales - unless you're
the one dumping the stock before it plummets!
By the way, what started all this ranting by you, did you buy into the
"stock options and low pay" myth at some .COM and get shafted :-)
Or, perhaps since you cling to old methods (see your n-tier rant on another
post) were you passed over for promotion since you "just don't get it".
Being stuck maintaining someone else's mess tends to make one bitter!
Unlike you, I believe in the using the right tool (just in case you missed
it above), whether that's 3-tier, 2-tier or NO TIER working off a floppy
disk in DOS!
Why do you remain anonymous? Are you afraid? Paranoid?
Are you afraid the Microsoft Marketing Reps will come to your house and try
to beat some sense into you?
They don't do that.....anymore!
I look forward to your next unreasoned rant - its quite entertaining!
Hope the medication starts working soon.
Tom
"Tony Rogerson" <to**********@sqlserver.eu.com> wrote in message
news:7d**************************@posting.google.c om... Check out http://www.microsoft.com/sql/msde/howtobuy/msdeuse.asp
You are completely wrong where you say MSDE cannot be used in a
production environment.
The URL's you've posted refer to SQL Server and not MSDE.
----------------
It states on the URL above that MSDE can be downloaded and used as
part of ASP.NET Web Matrix (used to develop your .NET website) and can
be used in production.
----------------
MSDE is SQL Server at the end of the day, just with some throttling to
control scalability. Once you need to move up because of number of
concurrent users/size of database you can very easily (no porting
required) move to SQL Server standard.
Tony Rogerson
SQL Server MVP
In article <#3**************@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl>, n@ntspam.com says... Obviously your are clueless to think that the typical startup or MOM and POP
needs all that SQL Server can offer.
Obviously they must, or you wouldn't be here ranting, would you? If you
think that PHP and MySQL will serve your purposes, more power to you.
Personally, I looked at MySQL and I have to agree with another poster
here -- it's a toy database.
-- Rick
Pay attention to the thread.....
MSDE need to be clearly explained to the non-user entrepreneur who writes
the checks....
Web development in general, THAT MEANS YOU, is being given a black EYE on
each MS Access to SQL Server port as that's TOTALLY NOT necessary in the
first place when all Microsoft has to do is ADJUST the licensing and
marketing of MSDE.....
Duhhhhhh.....
"Guinness Mann" <GM***@dublin.com> wrote in message
news:MP************************@news.newsguy.com.. . In article <#3**************@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl>, n@ntspam.com says... Obviously your are clueless to think that the typical startup or MOM and
POP needs all that SQL Server can offer.
Obviously they must, or you wouldn't be here ranting, would you? If you
think that PHP and MySQL will serve your purposes, more power to you.
Personally, I looked at MySQL and I have to agree with another poster
here -- it's a toy database.
-- Rick
You are a glutton for punishment...ok....learn the hard way.....
COMMENTS INLINE....BELOW
"Tom Hall" <t.****@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:%2***************@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl... In spite of myself I'm posting this....
Since your argument just fell about apart, how about that apology :-)
I'm not using the AS/400, I'm using PCs. The AS/400 is the primary server
for the Shopfloor apps. My system is a "Disaster Backup System" for a
small but very critical part of that system.
It does not connect to the AS/400 - which would be kind of pointless as it
HAS to run independently.
You are putting the cart before the horse - an AS/400 should be in the
startup's vocabulary if the application demands it. A low end one can be
had for about $10,000.
Its all about applications. Not everything is Internet/.COM related.
Thinking (like you) that it is and nothing else matters is extremely
short-sighted.
Startup != .COM
True startup at least get's a .COM just to have E-Mail......DUHHHHHH!!!!
Next thing you will say is that a startup doesn't even need a telephone, and
then after that, you will probably say they don't need to make money....
Try thinking outside your little box.
My little box!!! How about your GLASS house on the top of the mountain with
that Porsche911 that you can't even drive around?
Would the company I work for use PC servers running MySQL for their
financials - not a chance. Its AS/400 all the way (which just happens to
cost $$$) but the thing we're buying with that money is uptime.
When was the last time your PC crashed (running Windows or Linux - doesn't
matter). When was the last time our AS/400 crashed - how about NEVER, 8
years and 2 hardware platform changes later and IT DOESN'T CRASH - PERIOD.
You said "NO ONE USES IT" - meaning MSDE.
People who live in Glass towers on the top of the mountain don't count
because they never come down from it.
So we never knew you existed.
I use it - therefore you ARE WRONG (and CLUELESS - your words).
The only thing STUPID about me is trying to reason with a zealot - YOU!
I should have known better, anyone with any experience knows you are "full
of it".
Its like a religious war with you - they are called that for a reason,
blind faith to your "position" - there is no reasoning with the people involved.
I believe in the right tool for the job, MySQL, PHP, Oracle, SQL Server,
PCs. XP, AS/400, Access, Java, C++, C#, Delphi, VB, Assembler, 2-tier,
3-tier - all have their place in the world - just not in your narrow view
of the world.
Narrow? Porsche911 and Jags..... AS/400
You are getting off topic.
I have programmed to some degree over the last 20 years using most of
these - can you say the same? I actually considered using MySQL for this
job but why should I when MSDE is free and SQL compatible.
For the record, I have never worked for a .COM company! Not that I
wouldn't but I understand the fact you can't make money without sales - unless
you're the one dumping the stock before it plummets!
By the way, what started all this ranting by you, did you buy into the
"stock options and low pay" myth at some .COM and get shafted :-)
Or, perhaps since you cling to old methods (see your n-tier rant on
another post) were you passed over for promotion since you "just don't get it".
Being stuck maintaining someone else's mess tends to make one bitter!
Unlike you, I believe in the using the right tool (just in case you missed
it above), whether that's 3-tier, 2-tier or NO TIER working off a floppy
disk in DOS!
Careful ......first read that n-Tier/ 2-Tier thread.......
Notice that I provided many URL'S back up my numbers and arguments.
Why do you remain anonymous? Are you afraid? Paranoid?
Ah, here we go again......attack the poster's background instead of the
arguments...
I'm just hoping to convert you to the dark side, us glass tower dwelling
folks are like that :-)
Perhaps working for a Fortune 150 gives me a different perspective than
you - that tower is mighty high, but just think, I STILL use MSDE for small
projects BECAUSE ITS FREE! I could use MySQL but why should I - both are
free, and MSDE is compatible with the other full Microsoft SQL databases in
case I need to scale up or consolidate servers.
The company can spend literally millions of dollars on a project if it
requires that kind of outlay BUT, when it doesn't justify it - such as my
little project, MSDE is called for - nothing to get approved as there is
nothing to buy! Hand me down desktops with XP and MSDE. The high end
thermal label printers (Zebra 170xiII) cost more than the software and PCs
put together ($8,000 each). BUT, they are friggin tanks (24x7 operation)
and worth every penny.
You might be surprised just how difficult it is to get a small project
approved that requires say $50,000 worth of stuff. (Try 2 years to replace
a few aging servers) The multi-million dollars deals are a piece of cake in
comparison.
Attacking the poster, that's all you do! Would you like a list of words
YOU'VE used against other posters....
CLUELESS, DUHHHH!!!, STUPID, ARROGANT, ZEALOT, FANATIC,....
I was just following your lead - in fact I didn't use any offensive words
that you hadn't already used.
..COM for your Email address doesn't require MSDE or MySQL last time I
checked.
I have refuted your interpretation of the licensing terms of MSDE multiple
times as have others - so give that one up!
I use MSDE as do others, so there goes your other argument...
I will agree that Microsoft could do a better job of marketing MSDE:
1. Make it easier to install - a command line installer, get real Microsoft.
2. Market it as the "free" SQL Server rather than some "other" product with
nebulous connections to SQL server and convoluted licensing (even if almost
everyone qualifies!). Just say I can use it rather than listing some pile
of other products I probably already have or could buy used off EBay to
qualify - like anyone is going to check.
3. Include the management tools.
These 3 points I will give you and you have my total support on them.
IF Microsoft did this it could allow them to blow MySQL out of the water and
set the stage for future sales when your mythical Mom and Pop operation
explodes in size.
With free SQL, and free ASP.NET on IIS, for the price of a desktop o/s (XP
for ~$200) you can blow Linux, MySQL, PHP and Apache out of the water!
Try turning down the flamethrower - you'll get more reasoned posts in
response.
Sincerely
Tom Hall
Glass Tower Developments (I like that, it has a ring to it - wonder if the
domain name is taken).
COMMENT INLINE BELOW...
"Tom Hall" <t.****@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl... I'm just hoping to convert you to the dark side, us glass tower dwelling
folks are like that :-)
Perhaps working for a Fortune 150 gives me a different perspective than
you - that tower is mighty high, but just think, I STILL use MSDE for
small projects BECAUSE ITS FREE! I could use MySQL but why should I - both are
free, and MSDE is compatible with the other full Microsoft SQL databases
in case I need to scale up or consolidate servers.
The company can spend literally millions of dollars on a project if it
requires that kind of outlay BUT, when it doesn't justify it - such as my
little project, MSDE is called for - nothing to get approved as there is
nothing to buy! Hand me down desktops with XP and MSDE. The high end
thermal label printers (Zebra 170xiII) cost more than the software and PCs
put together ($8,000 each). BUT, they are friggin tanks (24x7 operation)
and worth every penny.
You might be surprised just how difficult it is to get a small project
approved that requires say $50,000 worth of stuff. (Try 2 years to
replace a few aging servers) The multi-million dollars deals are a piece of cake
in comparison.
Attacking the poster, that's all you do! Would you like a list of words
YOU'VE used against other posters....
CLUELESS, DUHHHH!!!, STUPID, ARROGANT, ZEALOT, FANATIC,....
THESE were based on the ARGUMENTS and REPLIES presented...not on
background....
Initially Based on the "present" not "past"...and then the past.
Nevertheless, VERY VERY TRUE and ACCURATE DESCRIPTIONS based on the replies.
And you know it.
Now, if it were the other way around, it would be distorted, misleading,
taken out of context....
I was just following your lead - in fact I didn't use any offensive words
that you hadn't already used.
.COM for your Email address doesn't require MSDE or MySQL last time I
checked.
yes, but the startup could use the .com in the e-mail.
I have refuted your interpretation of the licensing terms of MSDE multiple
times as have others - so give that one up!
*************************
LET's READ CLOSELY
*************************
http://www.microsoft.com/sql/msde/howtobuy/msdeuse.asp
Common Rules and Guidelines
"Using MSDE does not reduce or eliminate the need for client access licenses
(CALs) when interacting with SQL Server 2000 Standard Edition or SQL Server
2000 Enterprise Edition in a production environment.
MSDE cannot be used to create applications that substantially duplicate the
capabilities of Microsoft Access or, in the reasonable opinion of Microsoft,
compete with same. "
Another big point to be made is that HARDWARE has come down in cost
dramatically while offering GREAT value.....not so with SOFTWARE in
general....at least not commercial software......
I use MSDE as do others, so there goes your other argument...
I will agree that Microsoft could do a better job of marketing MSDE:
1. Make it easier to install - a command line installer, get real
Microsoft.
2. Market it as the "free" SQL Server rather than some "other" product
with nebulous connections to SQL server and convoluted licensing (even if
almost everyone qualifies!). Just say I can use it rather than listing some pile
of other products I probably already have or could buy used off EBay to
qualify - like anyone is going to check.
It's doesn't only have to be "free", It has to be "affordable".
3. Include the management tools.
These 3 points I will give you and you have my total support on them.
IF Microsoft did this it could allow them to blow MySQL out of the water
and set the stage for future sales when your mythical Mom and Pop operation
explodes in size.
With free SQL, and free ASP.NET on IIS, for the price of a desktop o/s (XP
for ~$200) you can blow Linux, MySQL, PHP and Apache out of the water!
Try turning down the flamethrower - you'll get more reasoned posts in
response.
Sincerely
Tom Hall
Glass Tower Developments (I like that, it has a ring to it - wonder if the
domain name is taken).
Why don't you have an honest and real dialogue with a Microsoft program
manager on this subject? All you need do is spend some time and attend
either a major industry conference (not necessarily a Microsoft one) and
approach one of them to discuss.
Your concerns are legitimate given the needs of certain segments of the
market. However, going about this in such a way (and with such a concerted
chip on your shoulder) is not going to get you anywhere.
Last, before you start faulting Microsoft and it's licensing policies, I
would suggest you take a 'fair and balanced' look throughout the market
place. Microsoft is relatively inexpensive compared to Oracle, IBM, and
other database vendors. Moreover, SQL Server also provides some considerable
bang for the buck when you factor in its Analysis Services and English
Language Query. Two tools which are constantly overlooked by developers and
consultants when structuring solutions for their clients.
"nospam" <n@ntspam.com> wrote in message
news:e9**************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl... Sometimes coloured crayon are what the Microsoft marketing people
understand the best.
Sometimes "children" get TOO greedy and paranoid about their toys and
forget about what the other children go through.
"Bob Simms" <bo*******@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:QA*****************@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk... "nospam" <n@ntspam.com> wrote in message
news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl... This is one of the BIGGEST SOFTWARE problems right here....
Dear nospam,
You may well be CORRECT. I have NO IDEA, as your HABIT of using CAPS
willy-nilly tends to put me off reading your POST.
Caps:- the ng equivalent of using coloured crayons
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.516 / Virus Database: 313 - Release Date: 01/09/2003
Microsoft provides SQL Server as part of its generously (and inexpensively)
priced Microsoft Small Business Server 2000 and the forthcoming Microsoft
Windows Small Business Server 2003. Moreover, both of these products (and
SQL Server for that matter) can easily be purchased via multitude of
financing options available from major software distributors, resellers,
VARs, and Microsoft itself.
"nospam" <n@ntspam.com> wrote in message
news:%2****************@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl... Obviously your are clueless to think that the typical startup or MOM and
POP needs all that SQL Server can offer. You are also clueless to think that
even the startup or even the Fortune 500 company needs all that SQL Server
has to offer.
Ever heard of startup, limited funds, what about corporate project that
needs ONLY what it needs?
You have the SAME arrogance that MS had toward Linux......
Dear MR. MVP:
I need a Web Server with a simple database to get my business started..I
don't need analysis services and xml stuff. And when I have got my
business up and running I should have some money to add more. Oh, I don't want to
FALL for the MS Access to SQL Server Upgrade trap and buggy and costly
port. Why not limit the license so that I can write code and stored procs to
begin with......if I need more space, I will buy a SQL SErver upgrade license.
BUT since you don't offer that, I will goto PHP and MySql....I probably be
happy, and getting me to switch is going to be a very difficult
proposition. So, I will just buy faster hardware....And then why I am really
successfull, I might just goto Oracle or DB2 and I got more money to spend anyway AND
MICROSOFT was so UNFRIENDLY and my developers don't like them either.
It's really odd that Microsoft would offer a Windows 2003 Server-Web
License, but not a database that is robust as Windows Server 2003......too
bad I won't be able to really see that MS Access could be the problem...to
bad I won't realize until afterward how bad the port to SQL server was and
how costly it was.
So MR. MVP....here is your business lesson, read again and learn it.
"Andrew J. Kelly" <sq************@shadhawk.com> wrote in message
news:e1**************@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl... Obviously your the one who is clueless if you think MySql can do all
that MSDE can and better. I won't get into a drawn out debate here since you
are so far off base it isn't funny. Your rants and raves don't serve any
practical purpose so I suggest you go off an play with your toy db's if
they make you happy.
--
Andrew J. Kelly
SQL Server MVP
"nospam" <n@ntspam.com> wrote in message
news:uk**************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl... MSDE is a COMPLETE MARKETING and LICENSING/VERSION FAILURE as ZERO PEOPLE USE IT for anything, even development.
I have heard Gurus, .NET authors, UserGroups, .NET Evangelists, RD's
and MVP's mention it as an alternative to MySQL.
TOTAL B.S. and CLUELESSNESS on their part as well as Microsoft.
It's the developer who is going to create the database anyway and
anyone who wants to use SQL Server has got an MSDN Universal Subscription anyway.
AND then this developer has to tell his entreprenuer client the costs
involved and then they look at "alternatives" and they other non-.NET
developers...hence PHP, MySql.
These entreprenuers don't have millions of dollars and are just trying to make it like anyone else. They are not going to pour or PUT every dollar into their web server and database as there are OTHER things to BUY as
well in a business.....BUSINESSES do have other things to BUY and PAY for than just SOFTWARE.
NoSpam (curiously, why is it you hide behind an anonymous name); anyhow,
Microsoft does offer a Mom and Pop 'production' license, it's called
Microsoft Small Business Server 2000 or Microsoft Windows Small Business
Server 2003.
Also, by comparison, research from very reputable organizations such as AMI
Research shows that small business consistently UNDER INVEST in information
technologies. Even the segment that is considered the most 'cutting edge' by
research standards spend less than 1% of revenue on IT. That stands in stark
comparison to the rest of the marketplace which typically spends anywhere
from 2-15% of revenues on IT (varies by industry). And that accounts for the
economies of scale they reap too!
"nospam" <n@ntspam.com> wrote in message
news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl... Ah GOOD. An MVP.
Well, I'm sorry but I believe I have to tell you that MySQL is not
really a full-featured database ... well, you can put some data in it and get it out again, but that's basically it. MSDE and SQL Server, as well as
(expensive) systems like DB2 or Oracle provide you with a lot more useful
functionality
Do mom and pops need all that power of a full featured database? What
about startups?
Dear MR. MVP....don't stick you foot in your mouth.
Why offer a MSDE and ask developers to download it then and use .NET AND
then expect the developer to GET a Fortune 500 client???????
Say if they only have enough money to go SLOW in getting a site up?
...Why should you have the developer use MS ACCESS then do a port to SQL Server
when all Microsoft has to do is make something like a mom and pop
"production" license....all an Access to SQL Server port does is
COMPLETELY WASTES everyone TIME and MONEY AND more BUGS and LOWERS CUSTOMER
SATISFACTION. SQL Server should be have a licensing program that allow
for a easy upgrade from mom and pop to successfull startup...what's so hard
about that?
Dear MR. MVP,
******There are ONLY 500 companies in the FORTUNE 500.*****
COMPRENDE??????
Next time, you should think carefully.
...
Btw ... PHP can only be compared with ASP.NET. But both play in
different leagues. And believe me, ASP.NET plays in a higher league than PHP
Oh, just in case you think that I'm a complete Microsoft-evangelist ...
I know PHP and MySQL pretty well and I know what I'm talking about.
However, it seems that you should first learn a bit more about database systems
and programming languages before writing stupid things like this post ...
Regards,
--
Frank Eller [.NET MVP]
www.frankeller.de
.NET Developers Group Munich- www.munichdot.net
My comments to your comments again... Attacking the poster, that's all you do! Would you like a list of words
YOU'VE used against other posters....
CLUELESS, DUHHHH!!!, STUPID, ARROGANT, ZEALOT, FANATIC,....
THESE were based on the ARGUMENTS and REPLIES presented...not on
background....
Initially Based on the "present" not "past"...and then the past.
Nevertheless, VERY VERY TRUE and ACCURATE DESCRIPTIONS based on the
replies. And you know it.
Now, if it were the other way around, it would be distorted, misleading,
taken out of context....
Really...that's not how it reads to me or the people you've flamed. Appears
to me that those words were directed at the posters, not their arguments.
I was just following your lead - in fact I didn't use any offensive
words that you hadn't already used.
.COM for your Email address doesn't require MSDE or MySQL last time I
checked.
yes, but the startup could use the .com in the e-mail.
Which once again means nothing, has nothing to do with MySQL or MSDE. What
if I use .CA or .NET - do I need MySQL for that?
I have refuted your interpretation of the licensing terms of MSDE
multiple times as have others - so give that one up!
*************************
LET's READ CLOSELY
*************************
http://www.microsoft.com/sql/msde/howtobuy/msdeuse.asp
Common Rules and Guidelines
"Using MSDE does not reduce or eliminate the need for client access
licenses (CALs) when interacting with SQL Server 2000 Standard Edition or SQL
Server 2000 Enterprise Edition in a production environment.
Once again, you miss the point. No one mentioned using MSDE WITH SQL
Server - I'm using it INSTEAD of SQL Server, so this part does not apply to
me.
MSDE cannot be used to create applications that substantially duplicate
the capabilities of Microsoft Access or, in the reasonable opinion of
Microsoft, compete with same. "
I take this to mean you can't put a generic front end on MSDE that does
scripting, forms design, data import/export and reporting and sell it -
which would be what Access does. This isn't too limiting for most people.
Another big point to be made is that HARDWARE has come down in cost
dramatically while offering GREAT value.....not so with SOFTWARE in
general....at least not commercial software......
Your point would be that it should be cheap?
Why? You charge what the market will bear - that's what business is about -
making money. So many people seem to lose sight of this. Everyone gets
upset that banks charge all those fees....buy the stock, then you'll get a
cut of those profits! Same with Microsoft.
You ought to try the mainframe software route if you think PC software is
expensive. Not only is it extremely expensive but its typically licensed to
the serial # of the machine and cpu level (in the case of AS/400 which I
have experience with). You have to give over this information BEFORE they
sell it to you so it is LOCKED to the machine literally.
Comparision for your edification:
Loftware Label print software for my PC-based Disaster system previously
posted about: $700.
TL Ashford Label Print software for the AS/400: $26,000 (IIRC)
The Loftware does a better job and is easier to use! Is the TL Ashford
worth almost 40 times as much - NO, do I have a choice - NO (other than not
using it and using some other equally expensive package)
Consider yourself lucky to be only living in the PC world.
Here again, they charge what the market will bear, and they own the market
(little competition) but also few customers - how many people own a $120,000
piece of equipment to run it on. It would cost more than the $26,000 to
develop the system yourself - and the support is great - it had better be
for that $$$.
I use MSDE as do others, so there goes your other argument...
I will agree that Microsoft could do a better job of marketing MSDE:
1. Make it easier to install - a command line installer, get real Microsoft.
2. Market it as the "free" SQL Server rather than some "other" product
with nebulous connections to SQL server and convoluted licensing (even if
almost everyone qualifies!). Just say I can use it rather than listing some
pile of other products I probably already have or could buy used off EBay to
qualify - like anyone is going to check.
It's doesn't only have to be "free", It has to be "affordable".
Yes, but it is FREE.
Agreed, although free is nice, don't expect support but since it really is
SQL server, everything written about it applies anyway. I'd be willing to
pay a few $100 for it, rather than use MySQL which is not a full-featured
database currently as it lacks stored procedures - yes I know this is
coming.
3. Include the management tools.
Notice you didn't argue with this!
These 3 points I will give you and you have my total support on them.
IF Microsoft did this it could allow them to blow MySQL out of the water
and set the stage for future sales when your mythical Mom and Pop operation
explodes in size.
With free SQL, and free ASP.NET on IIS, for the price of a desktop o/s
(XP for ~$200) you can blow Linux, MySQL, PHP and Apache out of the water!
Try turning down the flamethrower - you'll get more reasoned posts in
response.
Sincerely
Tom Hall
Glass Tower Developments (I like that, it has a ring to it - wonder if
the domain name is taken).
I believe I already have Microsoft's ear.....and sometimes...with something
THIS IMPORTANT...you need to get ATTENTION....
Anyway, SQL Server is really NOT that cheap when compared to
HARDWARE...that's how the outsider, startup, mom and pop, and the general
population look at it.
You know there are a LOT more people who like and shop WAL-MART than Saks
5th Avenue.
Same with eBay......same with Charles Schwab........
sell to the masses.......
"David Vins" <da*******@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:e7*************@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl... Why don't you have an honest and real dialogue with a Microsoft program
manager on this subject? All you need do is spend some time and attend
either a major industry conference (not necessarily a Microsoft one) and
approach one of them to discuss.
Your concerns are legitimate given the needs of certain segments of the
market. However, going about this in such a way (and with such a concerted
chip on your shoulder) is not going to get you anywhere.
Last, before you start faulting Microsoft and it's licensing policies, I
would suggest you take a 'fair and balanced' look throughout the market
place. Microsoft is relatively inexpensive compared to Oracle, IBM, and
other database vendors. Moreover, SQL Server also provides some
considerable bang for the buck when you factor in its Analysis Services and English
Language Query. Two tools which are constantly overlooked by developers
and consultants when structuring solutions for their clients.
"nospam" <n@ntspam.com> wrote in message
news:e9**************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl... Sometimes coloured crayon are what the Microsoft marketing people
understand the best.
Sometimes "children" get TOO greedy and paranoid about their toys and
forget about what the other children go through.
"Bob Simms" <bo*******@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:QA*****************@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk... "nospam" <n@ntspam.com> wrote in message
news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> This is one of the BIGGEST SOFTWARE problems right here....
Dear nospam,
You may well be CORRECT. I have NO IDEA, as your HABIT of using CAPS
willy-nilly tends to put me off reading your POST.
Caps:- the ng equivalent of using coloured crayons
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.516 / Virus Database: 313 - Release Date: 01/09/2003
SBS is still too expensive...
Let's say $2000 for the sofware...$2000 for the hardware...and then what?
How much money will be left so that mom and pop can pay the developer or
network admin?
See what the .NET developer is up against? We are comparing to PHP and
MySql........
It's not like I want to switch...but it's a financial decision....
Look through the eyes of Mom and Pop....all they see is Pentium 4 2.4
GHz....1 GIG of RAM for under $1K....what are they supposed to think???? Do
you think they care whether it's hardware or software? DO you think they
are going to LISTEN to any developer, MVP or not MVP?
This happens over and over again.......
"David Vins" <da*******@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:eS*************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl... Microsoft provides SQL Server as part of its generously (and
inexpensively) priced Microsoft Small Business Server 2000 and the forthcoming Microsoft
Windows Small Business Server 2003. Moreover, both of these products (and
SQL Server for that matter) can easily be purchased via multitude of
financing options available from major software distributors, resellers,
VARs, and Microsoft itself.
"nospam" <n@ntspam.com> wrote in message
news:%2****************@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl... Obviously your are clueless to think that the typical startup or MOM and
POP needs all that SQL Server can offer. You are also clueless to think that
even the startup or even the Fortune 500 company needs all that SQL
Server has to offer.
Ever heard of startup, limited funds, what about corporate project that
needs ONLY what it needs?
You have the SAME arrogance that MS had toward Linux......
Dear MR. MVP:
I need a Web Server with a simple database to get my business started..I
don't need analysis services and xml stuff. And when I have got my
business up and running I should have some money to add more. Oh, I don't want
to FALL for the MS Access to SQL Server Upgrade trap and buggy and costly
port. Why not limit the license so that I can write code and stored procs to
begin with......if I need more space, I will buy a SQL SErver upgrade license.
BUT since you don't offer that, I will goto PHP and MySql....I probably
be happy, and getting me to switch is going to be a very difficult
proposition. So, I will just buy faster hardware....And then why I am really
successfull, I might just goto Oracle or DB2 and I got more money to spend anyway AND
MICROSOFT was so UNFRIENDLY and my developers don't like them either.
It's really odd that Microsoft would offer a Windows 2003 Server-Web
License, but not a database that is robust as Windows Server
2003......too bad I won't be able to really see that MS Access could be the
problem...to bad I won't realize until afterward how bad the port to SQL server was
and how costly it was.
So MR. MVP....here is your business lesson, read again and learn it.
"Andrew J. Kelly" <sq************@shadhawk.com> wrote in message
news:e1**************@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl... Obviously your the one who is clueless if you think MySql can do all that MSDE can and better. I won't get into a drawn out debate here since
you are so far off base it isn't funny. Your rants and raves don't serve any
practical purpose so I suggest you go off an play with your toy db's
if they make you happy.
--
Andrew J. Kelly
SQL Server MVP
"nospam" <n@ntspam.com> wrote in message
news:uk**************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> MSDE is a COMPLETE MARKETING and LICENSING/VERSION FAILURE as ZERO
PEOPLE > USE IT for anything, even development.
>
> I have heard Gurus, .NET authors, UserGroups, .NET Evangelists, RD's and > MVP's mention it as an alternative to MySQL.
>
> TOTAL B.S. and CLUELESSNESS on their part as well as Microsoft.
>
> It's the developer who is going to create the database anyway and anyone who
> wants to use SQL Server has got an MSDN Universal Subscription
anyway. AND
> then this developer has to tell his entreprenuer client the costs
involved > and then they look at "alternatives" and they other non-.NET
> developers...hence PHP, MySql.
>
> These entreprenuers don't have millions of dollars and are just
trying to > make it like anyone else. They are not going to pour or PUT every
dollar > into their web server and database as there are OTHER things to BUY
as well
> in a business.....BUSINESSES do have other things to BUY and PAY for
than > just SOFTWARE.
>
>
Anon is being smart....so that we can discuss the ISSUES at hand....
Let's take a LOOK at that research......and then look through the eyes of
MOM and POP and for that matter any Fortune 500 company....
Each and every year they have to TOTALLY Upgrade the ENTIRE system..they get
POOR customer service....BUGS all over the place, VIRUS alerts every other
day, ON TV and the Newspaper.
Software and Web Sites that are written by complete "arrogant" idiots who
could care less if it's user friendly.
Always a new software upgrade to install and always something new to
learn..I mean WRESTLE with.
ZERO guarantee if something works..
Very very poor reliability.......
Very fast depreciation.
Software UNFULFILLED PROMISES........Features that aren't compatible......
Prices that are STILL the same...AND get this......YEARLY licensing
FEES.......
The only ones who are really making any strides are HARDWARE.....at least
you can use it....sort of....and they double the power for half the
price.....can't say that about software......
Now, you tell me why Fortune 500 companies and mom and pops aren't hiring OR
spending upon IT.......
I will tell you why......BROKEN PROMISES.....
"David Vins" <da*******@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl... NoSpam (curiously, why is it you hide behind an anonymous name); anyhow,
Microsoft does offer a Mom and Pop 'production' license, it's called
Microsoft Small Business Server 2000 or Microsoft Windows Small Business
Server 2003.
Also, by comparison, research from very reputable organizations such as
AMI Research shows that small business consistently UNDER INVEST in
information technologies. Even the segment that is considered the most 'cutting edge'
by research standards spend less than 1% of revenue on IT. That stands in
stark comparison to the rest of the marketplace which typically spends anywhere
from 2-15% of revenues on IT (varies by industry). And that accounts for
the economies of scale they reap too!
"nospam" <n@ntspam.com> wrote in message
news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl... Ah GOOD. An MVP.
Well, I'm sorry but I believe I have to tell you that MySQL is not really a full-featured database ... well, you can put some data in it and get
it out again, but that's basically it. MSDE and SQL Server, as well as (expensive) systems like DB2 or Oracle provide you with a lot more useful
functionality
Do mom and pops need all that power of a full featured database? What
about startups?
Dear MR. MVP....don't stick you foot in your mouth.
Why offer a MSDE and ask developers to download it then and use .NET AND
then expect the developer to GET a Fortune 500 client???????
Say if they only have enough money to go SLOW in getting a site up?
..Why should you have the developer use MS ACCESS then do a port to SQL Server
when all Microsoft has to do is make something like a mom and pop
"production" license....all an Access to SQL Server port does is
COMPLETELY WASTES everyone TIME and MONEY AND more BUGS and LOWERS CUSTOMER
SATISFACTION. SQL Server should be have a licensing program that allow
for a easy upgrade from mom and pop to successfull startup...what's so hard
about that?
Dear MR. MVP,
******There are ONLY 500 companies in the FORTUNE 500.*****
COMPRENDE??????
Next time, you should think carefully.
...
Btw ... PHP can only be compared with ASP.NET. But both play in
different leagues. And believe me, ASP.NET plays in a higher league than PHP
Oh, just in case you think that I'm a complete Microsoft-evangelist
.... I know PHP and MySQL pretty well and I know what I'm talking about. However, it seems that you should first learn a bit more about database systems and programming languages before writing stupid things like this post ...
Regards,
--
Frank Eller [.NET MVP]
www.frankeller.de
.NET Developers Group Munich- www.munichdot.net
It's been said before....
Hardware approx £600
Windows 2003 Web approx £300
MSDE version as part of Web Matrix FREE
You can use Web Matrix to build your website; MSDE can be distributed into
production as part of Web Matrix.
When your site reaches > around 10 hits per second (quite a lot!) then
upgrade to SQL Server 2000 standard - you'd need this because you aren't
allowed to use SBS on the internet.
--
Tony Rogerson
SQL Server MVP http://www.sqlserverfaq.com?mbr=21
(Create your own groups, Forum, FAQ's and a ton more)
Box standard SQL Server engine badged as MSDE with throttling FREE
SQL Server 2000 standard processor licence
£3500
MySQL standard support cost $1500.
Going down the mysql route also FREE, however, when you need scalability or
to do analysis on your data once your site has grown then the porting costs
are very expensive.
--
Tony Rogerson
SQL Server MVP http://www.sqlserverfaq.com?mbr=21
(Create your own groups, Forum, FAQ's and a ton more)
I think this poster is really one of those supposed-AI programs, along the
style of Eliza.... concatenating random phrases according to predefined
rules.
Arguing is futile, it will just keep going until some researcher somewhere
stops laughing and stops the program.
(Troll-bot?)
"nospam" <n@ntspam.com> wrote in message
news:uk**************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl... MSDE is a COMPLETE MARKETING and LICENSING/VERSION FAILURE as ZERO PEOPLE
USE IT for anything, even development.
I have heard Gurus, .NET authors, UserGroups, .NET Evangelists, RD's and
MVP's mention it as an alternative to MySQL.
TOTAL B.S. and CLUELESSNESS on their part as well as Microsoft.
It's the developer who is going to create the database anyway and anyone
who wants to use SQL Server has got an MSDN Universal Subscription anyway.
AND then this developer has to tell his entreprenuer client the costs involved
and then they look at "alternatives" and they other non-.NET
developers...hence PHP, MySql.
These entreprenuers don't have millions of dollars and are just trying to
make it like anyone else. They are not going to pour or PUT every dollar
into their web server and database as there are OTHER things to BUY as
well in a business.....BUSINESSES do have other things to BUY and PAY for than
just SOFTWARE.
I'd just like to jump in here as a Microsoft employee and officially state
that Tony is correct.
1. MSDE is free for use when used with Web Matrix
2. MSDE can be used in a production environment when the app being used is
built using 1.
We've put together an MSDE FAQ list that might be of help here. Tony's
referenced it below, but I'll repeat: http://www.microsoft.com/sql/msde/howtobuy/msdeuse.asp.
--
Hope this helps,
Stephen Dybing
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
Please reply to the newsgroups only, thanks.
Microsoft highly recommends to all of our customers that they visit the http://www.microsoft.com/protect site and perform the three straightforward
steps listed to improve your computer's security.
"Tony Rogerson" <to**********@sqlserver.eu.com> wrote in message
news:7d**************************@posting.google.c om... Check out http://www.microsoft.com/sql/msde/howtobuy/msdeuse.asp
You are completely wrong where you say MSDE cannot be used in a
production environment.
The URL's you've posted refer to SQL Server and not MSDE.
----------------
It states on the URL above that MSDE can be downloaded and used as
part of ASP.NET Web Matrix (used to develop your .NET website) and can
be used in production.
----------------
MSDE is SQL Server at the end of the day, just with some throttling to
control scalability. Once you need to move up because of number of
concurrent users/size of database you can very easily (no porting
required) move to SQL Server standard.
Tony Rogerson
SQL Server MVP
Haha, now this is a theory I like.
"Stu Smith" <st*****@remove.digita.com> wrote in message
news:e1**************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl... I think this poster is really one of those supposed-AI programs, along the
style of Eliza.... concatenating random phrases according to predefined
rules.
Arguing is futile, it will just keep going until some researcher somewhere
stops laughing and stops the program.
(Troll-bot?)
"nospam" <n@ntspam.com> wrote in message
news:uk**************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl... MSDE is a COMPLETE MARKETING and LICENSING/VERSION FAILURE as ZERO
PEOPLE USE IT for anything, even development.
I have heard Gurus, .NET authors, UserGroups, .NET Evangelists, RD's and
MVP's mention it as an alternative to MySQL.
TOTAL B.S. and CLUELESSNESS on their part as well as Microsoft.
It's the developer who is going to create the database anyway and anyone
who wants to use SQL Server has got an MSDN Universal Subscription anyway.
AND then this developer has to tell his entreprenuer client the costs
involved and then they look at "alternatives" and they other non-.NET
developers...hence PHP, MySql.
These entreprenuers don't have millions of dollars and are just trying
to make it like anyone else. They are not going to pour or PUT every
dollar into their web server and database as there are OTHER things to BUY as
well in a business.....BUSINESSES do have other things to BUY and PAY for
than just SOFTWARE.
MySql standard SUPPORT is ZERO....
WHY?????? It's because MOM and POP paid the developer already....
It's the developer job that mom and pop hired, not MySql standard support.
"Tony Rogerson" <to**********@sqlserver.eu.com> wrote in message
news:%2****************@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl... Box standard SQL Server engine badged as MSDE with throttling FREE
SQL Server 2000 standard processor licence
£3500
MySQL standard support cost $1500.
Going down the mysql route also FREE, however, when you need scalability
or to do analysis on your data once your site has grown then the porting
costs are very expensive.
--
Tony Rogerson
SQL Server MVP
http://www.sqlserverfaq.com?mbr=21
(Create your own groups, Forum, FAQ's and a ton more)
You know.....in order to have humor, there must be some element of
truth.....
Since you and others are laughing sooo much...there's obviously a lot of
truth......
Ha. Ha. Ha.
"Daniel O'Connell" <on******@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:tRK9b.479482$uu5.82716@sccrnsc04... Haha, now this is a theory I like.
"Stu Smith" <st*****@remove.digita.com> wrote in message
news:e1**************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl... I think this poster is really one of those supposed-AI programs, along
the style of Eliza.... concatenating random phrases according to predefined
rules.
Arguing is futile, it will just keep going until some researcher
somewhere stops laughing and stops the program.
(Troll-bot?)
"nospam" <n@ntspam.com> wrote in message
news:uk**************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl... MSDE is a COMPLETE MARKETING and LICENSING/VERSION FAILURE as ZERO PEOPLE USE IT for anything, even development.
I have heard Gurus, .NET authors, UserGroups, .NET Evangelists, RD's
and MVP's mention it as an alternative to MySQL.
TOTAL B.S. and CLUELESSNESS on their part as well as Microsoft.
It's the developer who is going to create the database anyway and
anyone who wants to use SQL Server has got an MSDN Universal Subscription anyway.
AND then this developer has to tell his entreprenuer client the costs
involved and then they look at "alternatives" and they other non-.NET
developers...hence PHP, MySql.
These entreprenuers don't have millions of dollars and are just trying to make it like anyone else. They are not going to pour or PUT every dollar into their web server and database as there are OTHER things to BUY as
well in a business.....BUSINESSES do have other things to BUY and PAY for than just SOFTWARE.
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