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Mixed-mode and "non-default" app domains

P: n/a
Is it at all possible to leverage mixed-mode assemblies from AppDomains
other than the default AppDomain? Is there any means at all of doing this?
Mixed-mode is incredibly convenient, but if I cannot load/unload/reload
extensions into my large and slow-to-load application during development
without restarting the process then the disadvantages may outweigh the
advantages.

I've got a mixed-mode program in which I create a new AppDomain and then use
CreateInstance() on a type from another assembly. That other assembly is
created by the C# compiler. Though written in C# the type being instanced
is itself derived from a mixed-mode class in yet another 3rd assembly.

I get a System.NullReferenceException when the mixed-mode code runs in the
non-default app-domain.
Nov 17 '05 #1
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8 Replies


P: n/a
Hi Bern,

Thanks for posting in the community.

Currently I am consulting your problem to some dev members . We will reply
here with more information as soon as possible.
If you have any more concerns on it, please feel free to post here.
Thanks!

Best regards,

Gary Chang
Microsoft Online Partner Support

Get Secure! - www.microsoft.com/security
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
--------------------

Nov 17 '05 #2

P: n/a
Hi Bern,

From your description, I understand that you got a
System.NullReferenceException when the C# type(derived from a mixed-mode
class) is being instanced in a non-default AppDomain, please correct me if
I misunderstand your issue.

Based on my knowledge, the System.NullReferenceException will be thrown
while the code referenced to an invalid object, in your case, I think
perhaps it reference to a object which created in another AppDomain.

Something like the description from the Don Box's <<Essential.NET>> Chapter
8:
"
...
An object resides in exactly one AppDomain, as do values. Moreover, object
references must refer to objects in the same AppDomain. ...
Like objects, types reside in exactly one AppDomain. If two AppDomains need
to use a type, one must initialize and allocate the type once per
AppDomain. Additionally, one must load and initialize the type's module and
assembly once for each AppDomain the type is used in. Because each
AppDomain in a process maintains a separate copy of the type, each
AppDomain has its own private copy of the type's static fields.
...
"

Thanks!

Best regards,

Gary Chang
Microsoft Online Partner Support

Get Secure! - www.microsoft.com/security
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
--------------------

Nov 17 '05 #3

P: n/a
I for the most part understand how pure assemblies work with app domains,
but I am not at all clear on what you can do with mixed-mode assemblies in a
multi-application domain situation. I'll elaborate a little on my
particular scenario in a moment, in case it's actually useful, but what I am
really in need of is a decent understanding of if/how one can leverage
mixed-mode assemblies from "non default" application domains. My great fear
is that the answer is "You cannot create/reference instances of types from
mixed-mode assemblies in non-default application domains and expect to do
anything useful with them". If that is true, the documentation would be
improved by spelling it out in both the AppDomain overviews and MC++
overviews.

If I have a mixed-mode type that uses IJW to leverage native code, can I
call/manipulate instances of such a type from an otherwise "clr pure"
assembly in a non-default application domain? If yes, then what about
inheritence? In other words can a type that is in a "non mixed-mode"
assembly, but which derives from a type in a mixed-mode assembly, function
properly in a non-default application domain? Yes or no?

The latter is my situation. From my mixed mode code in the default domain I
use AppDomain.CreateInstance() to instantiate an object in another domain of
a type that inherits from a mixed-mode type. The constructor for that
derived type does get run and I can trace through it to it's point of death.
The first thing it does is call the mixed-mode base type's constructor and
it goes into it just fine. That base-type constructor goes out to native
code with IJW just fine. It is when it trys to come back into managed code
with IJW in the mixed-mode base type constructor that it goes boom. It
appears to go wrong inside of the thunk right there. My suspicion is that
the native-to-managed thunk contains an assumption that it is running in the
default application domain and that the default application domain is not
actually "current"; that the runtime let me make a direct call from a type
that was loaded in another domain to the base type that was ONLY loaded in
the default domain. If that is the case it seems as though the runtime and
compiler/linker could conspire to flag this at runtime rather than letting
you hang yourself. In other words, if those are the rules, could not the
compiler discover that the class being compiled had references to mixed-mode
assemblies (even though it was otherwise pure) and mark it as such so that
the runtime could throw a nice informative exception if someone tried to
instance the class in a non-default domain?

Can a mixed-mode assembly ever be "loaded" into a non-default application
domain? If the answer is no, then does that imply that types that are to be
instantiated in a non-default domain cannot directly use types from
mixed-mode assemblies at all?

-Bern

"Gary Chang" <v-******@online.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:Yb**************@cpmsftngxa07.phx.gbl...
Hi Bern,

From your description, I understand that you got a
System.NullReferenceException when the C# type(derived from a mixed-mode
class) is being instanced in a non-default AppDomain, please correct me if
I misunderstand your issue.

Based on my knowledge, the System.NullReferenceException will be thrown
while the code referenced to an invalid object, in your case, I think
perhaps it reference to a object which created in another AppDomain.

Something like the description from the Don Box's <<Essential.NET>> Chapter 8:
"
..
An object resides in exactly one AppDomain, as do values. Moreover, object
references must refer to objects in the same AppDomain. ...
Like objects, types reside in exactly one AppDomain. If two AppDomains need to use a type, one must initialize and allocate the type once per
AppDomain. Additionally, one must load and initialize the type's module and assembly once for each AppDomain the type is used in. Because each
AppDomain in a process maintains a separate copy of the type, each
AppDomain has its own private copy of the type's static fields.
..
"

Thanks!

Best regards,

Gary Chang
Microsoft Online Partner Support

Get Secure! - www.microsoft.com/security
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights. --------------------

Nov 17 '05 #4

P: n/a
Hi Bern,

Thanks for your quickly reply!

It seems I misunderstood your concerns:
Can a mixed-mode assembly ever be "loaded" into a non-default application
domain? If the answer is no, then does that imply that types that are to be
instantiated in a non-default domain cannot directly use types from
mixed-mode assemblies at all?


Currently, we have submitted your questions to the vc dev team, and we will
reply you as soon as possible.
Thanks!

Best regards,

Gary Chang
Microsoft Online Partner Support

Get Secure! - www.microsoft.com/security
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
--------------------

Nov 17 '05 #5

P: n/a
Hello all (and Gary).

Just a reminder. I continue to watch this thread for the promised
response....

Bern McCarty
Bentley Systems, Inc.

"Gary Chang" <v-******@online.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:Il**************@cpmsftngxa07.phx.gbl...
Hi Bern,

Thanks for your quickly reply!

It seems I misunderstood your concerns:
Can a mixed-mode assembly ever be "loaded" into a non-default application
domain? If the answer is no, then does that imply that types that are to

be instantiated in a non-default domain cannot directly use types from
mixed-mode assemblies at all?

Currently, we have submitted your questions to the vc dev team, and we

will reply you as soon as possible.
Thanks!

Best regards,

Gary Chang
Microsoft Online Partner Support

Get Secure! - www.microsoft.com/security
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights. --------------------

Nov 17 '05 #6

P: n/a
Hi Bern,

I put the post earlier but somehow it seemed to be missing in newsgroup.
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.dotnet.languages.vc
From: bh*****@online.microsoft.com (Bhavik Shah [MSFT])
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 15:09:59 GMT
Subject: RE: Mixed-mode and "non-default" app domains

Hi Bern,

Sorry for the delay in responding to your question.

Is it possible for you to send a repro sample of what you are trying to do
and where it is failing? If yes, plese send it to me directly and you could
reach me at bh*****@online.microsoft.com (without the word "online").

Thanks,
Bhavik Shah
Microsoft Visual C++ Support
Would it be possible for you to send me small repro that shows what you are
trying?

Thanks,
Bhavik Shah
Microsoft Visual C++ Support

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
--------------------
From: "Bern McCarty" <be**********@bentley.com>
References: <#u**************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl> <Yb**************@cpmsftngxa07.phx.gbl>
<OS**************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl>
<Il**************@cpmsftngxa07.phx.gbl>Subject: Re: Mixed-mode and "non-default" app domains
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 09:33:24 -0500
Lines: 42
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
Message-ID: <uU**************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl>
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.dotnet.languages.vc
NNTP-Posting-Host: bsi-uu.bentley.com 64.90.224.40
Path: cpmsftngxa06.phx.gbl!TK2MSFTNGP08.phx.gbl!TK2MSFTN GP10.phx.gbl
Xref: cpmsftngxa06.phx.gbl microsoft.public.dotnet.languages.vc:33894
X-Tomcat-NG: microsoft.public.dotnet.languages.vc

Hello all (and Gary).

Just a reminder. I continue to watch this thread for the promised
response....

Bern McCarty
Bentley Systems, Inc.

"Gary Chang" <v-******@online.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:Il**************@cpmsftngxa07.phx.gbl...
Hi Bern,

Thanks for your quickly reply!

It seems I misunderstood your concerns:
>
Can a mixed-mode assembly ever be "loaded" into a non-default
application domain? If the answer is no, then does that imply that types that are

tobe
instantiated in a non-default domain cannot directly use types from
mixed-mode assemblies at all?
>

Currently, we have submitted your questions to the vc dev team, and we

will
reply you as soon as possible.
Thanks!

Best regards,

Gary Chang
Microsoft Online Partner Support

Get Secure! - www.microsoft.com/security
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no

rights.
--------------------



Nov 17 '05 #7

P: n/a
Hello all (and Gary).

Just a reminder. I continue to watch this thread for the promised
response....

Bern McCarty
Bentley Systems, Inc.

"Gary Chang" <v-******@online.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:Il**************@cpmsftngxa07.phx.gbl...
Hi Bern,

Thanks for your quickly reply!

It seems I misunderstood your concerns:
Can a mixed-mode assembly ever be "loaded" into a non-default application
domain? If the answer is no, then does that imply that types that are to

be instantiated in a non-default domain cannot directly use types from
mixed-mode assemblies at all?

Currently, we have submitted your questions to the vc dev team, and we

will reply you as soon as possible.
Thanks!

Best regards,

Gary Chang
Microsoft Online Partner Support

Get Secure! - www.microsoft.com/security
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights. --------------------

Nov 17 '05 #8

P: n/a
Hi Bern,

I put the post earlier but somehow it seemed to be missing in newsgroup.
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.dotnet.languages.vc
From: bh*****@online.microsoft.com (Bhavik Shah [MSFT])
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 15:09:59 GMT
Subject: RE: Mixed-mode and "non-default" app domains

Hi Bern,

Sorry for the delay in responding to your question.

Is it possible for you to send a repro sample of what you are trying to do
and where it is failing? If yes, plese send it to me directly and you could
reach me at bh*****@online.microsoft.com (without the word "online").

Thanks,
Bhavik Shah
Microsoft Visual C++ Support
Would it be possible for you to send me small repro that shows what you are
trying?

Thanks,
Bhavik Shah
Microsoft Visual C++ Support

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
--------------------
From: "Bern McCarty" <be**********@bentley.com>
References: <#u**************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl> <Yb**************@cpmsftngxa07.phx.gbl>
<OS**************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl>
<Il**************@cpmsftngxa07.phx.gbl>Subject: Re: Mixed-mode and "non-default" app domains
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 09:33:24 -0500
Lines: 42
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
Message-ID: <uU**************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl>
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.dotnet.languages.vc
NNTP-Posting-Host: bsi-uu.bentley.com 64.90.224.40
Path: cpmsftngxa06.phx.gbl!TK2MSFTNGP08.phx.gbl!TK2MSFTN GP10.phx.gbl
Xref: cpmsftngxa06.phx.gbl microsoft.public.dotnet.languages.vc:33894
X-Tomcat-NG: microsoft.public.dotnet.languages.vc

Hello all (and Gary).

Just a reminder. I continue to watch this thread for the promised
response....

Bern McCarty
Bentley Systems, Inc.

"Gary Chang" <v-******@online.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:Il**************@cpmsftngxa07.phx.gbl...
Hi Bern,

Thanks for your quickly reply!

It seems I misunderstood your concerns:
>
Can a mixed-mode assembly ever be "loaded" into a non-default
application domain? If the answer is no, then does that imply that types that are

tobe
instantiated in a non-default domain cannot directly use types from
mixed-mode assemblies at all?
>

Currently, we have submitted your questions to the vc dev team, and we

will
reply you as soon as possible.
Thanks!

Best regards,

Gary Chang
Microsoft Online Partner Support

Get Secure! - www.microsoft.com/security
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no

rights.
--------------------



Nov 17 '05 #9

This discussion thread is closed

Replies have been disabled for this discussion.