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Microsoft Patents Saving The Name Of A Game

--> From http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20040406/1349225.shtml

Microsoft Patents Saving The Name Of A Game
Contributed by Mike on Tuesday, April 6th, 2004 @ 01:49PM
from the yeah,-that's-non-obvious dept.

theodp writes "As if there weren't enough dodgy patents, here's an
excerpt from one granted to Microsoft Tuesday for a 'Method and
apparatus for displaying information regarding stored data in a gaming
system': 'When saving a game, the saved game data may include a
descriptive name of the saved game, a graphic representation of the
state of the game when the game was saved, a description of the game
state when the game was saved, and a date and time that the game was
saved.'" I'm trying to figure out if there's more to this patent, but
the more I read, the worse it seems. How is this possibly
"non-obvious"?

--> Link to Patent

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...mber=6,716,102

--> Link to Patent File History (Shows Two Earlier Rejections)

http://pair.uspto.gov/cgi-bin/final/...mber=6,716,102
Jul 20 '05 #1
138 6590
On 6 Apr 2004 23:52:24 -0700, theodp wrote:
--> From http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20040406/1349225.shtml

Microsoft Patents Saving The Name Of A Game
Contributed by Mike on Tuesday, April 6th, 2004 @ 01:49PM
from the yeah,-that's-non-obvious dept.

theodp writes "As if there weren't enough dodgy patents, here's an
excerpt from one granted to Microsoft Tuesday for a 'Method and
apparatus for displaying information regarding stored data in a gaming
system': 'When saving a game, the saved game data may include a
descriptive name of the saved game, a graphic representation of the
state of the game when the game was saved, a description of the game
state when the game was saved, and a date and time that the game was
saved.'" I'm trying to figure out if there's more to this patent, but
the more I read, the worse it seems. How is this possibly
"non-obvious"?

--> Link to Patent

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...mber=6,716,102


As with most patents, the important part is not the abstract.

Try reading the claims and the summary.
--
People in the killfile (and whose posts I won't read) as of 4/7/2004
12:54:28 AM:
Peter Kohlmann, T.Max Devlin. Matt Templeton (scored down)
Jul 20 '05 #2
"theodp" <th****@aol.com > wrote in message
news:e7******** *************** ***@posting.goo gle.com...
--> From http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20040406/1349225.shtml

Microsoft Patents Saving The Name Of A Game
Contributed by Mike on Tuesday, April 6th, 2004 @ 01:49PM
from the yeah,-that's-non-obvious dept.

theodp writes "As if there weren't enough dodgy patents, here's an
excerpt from one granted to Microsoft Tuesday for a 'Method and
apparatus for displaying information regarding stored data in a gaming
system': 'When saving a game, the saved game data may include a
descriptive name of the saved game, a graphic representation of the
state of the game when the game was saved, a description of the game
state when the game was saved, and a date and time that the game was
saved.'" I'm trying to figure out if there's more to this patent, but
the more I read, the worse it seems. How is this possibly
"non-obvious"?

--> Link to Patent

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...mber=6,716,102

--> Link to Patent File History (Shows Two Earlier Rejections)

http://pair.uspto.gov/cgi-bin/final/...mber=6,716,102

If you actually bothered to read and understand it, you total fucktard, it
relates to XBox games over broadband. All it means is that developers will
have to agree to a license in order to save extensive game data in XBox
format. You stupid, pillocking linuxfuck.

--
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Windows XP Problem and Troubleshooting Resources
<a href="http://kadaitcha.cx"></a>

Jul 20 '05 #3
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theodp wrote:

There seems to be plenty of prior art here ...
theodp writes "As if there weren't enough dodgy patents, here's an
excerpt from one granted to Microsoft Tuesday for a 'Method and
apparatus for displaying information regarding stored data in a gaming
system': 'When saving a game, the saved game data may include a
descriptive name of the saved game,
Just about every single game allows for naming the saved game. How else
are you supposed to find it among the rest of the saved games.
a graphic representation of the state of the game when the game was
saved,
The first time I saw this was with Duke Nukem 3D. A screen-shot of
whatever was seen in the game was saved along with the rest.
a description of the game state when the game was saved,
HELLO! What is saved if not a description of the game state?!? "The
Ur-Quan Masters" even has a graphical representation of the most
important data from the state of the game.
and a date and time that the game was saved.'"
Oh, come on! That's usually implicitly saved in the meta-data of the
file a save-game is saved in.
I'm trying to figure out if there's more to this patent, but the more
I read, the worse it seems. How is this possibly "non-obvious"?
It's not only obvious, there has been prior art for more than a decade.
--> Link to Patent

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...mber=6,716,102


There may be more to this patent, but I hate legalese. The above
mentioned points, however, show why software patents are evil. It's
simply too easy to patent something that's been around forever if you
bury it in enough technical mumbo-jumbo to confuse the overworked patent
clerk.

[Followup-To: comp.os.linux.a dvocacy]

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--
PeKaJe

Americans' greatest fear is that America will turn out to have been a
phenomenon, not a civilization. -- Shirley Hazzard, "Transit of Venus"
Jul 20 '05 #4
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Milo T. wrote:
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...mber=6,716,102


As with most patents, the important part is not the abstract.

Try reading the claims and the summary.


Did you? If you did, you would find the same claims (among others, of
course). The point is that those claims are *nothing* new. In fact,
most of it has been done for well over a decade. They should *only*
patent what's actually new and innovative, but this *is* Microsoft we're
talking about. Such a patent would be quite thin ...

[Followup-To: comp.os.linux.a dvocacy]

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--
PeKaJe

"The wages of sin are death; but after they're done taking out taxes,
it's just a tired feeling:"
Jul 20 '05 #5
"Milo T." <fa*********@ma laprop.net> writes:
Microsoft Patents Saving The Name Of A Game .... http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...mber=6,716,102
As with most patents, the important part is not the abstract. Try reading the claims and the summary.


The essence of Claim 1 in its entirety is: a game console, a processor;
two hard disks, and on each hard disk, data associated with a program.

Since processors, hard disks, data, and program, are very generic terms,
how much this patent will cover will likely hinge on what 'game console'
means. And, from reading some of the patent, it seems to me that pretty
much any machine that lets you play games is a game console.

The closest thing I find to a definition of 'game console' in the patent
is:

The gaming system includes a game console and one or more controllers.
The game console is equipped with a processor and a non-removable hard
disk drive coupled to the processor. The game console may also include
a memory, a portable media drive configured to communicate with a
storage disc, one or more portable memory units, and broadband
connectivity. In other implementations , the hard disk drive is
configured to store game data, audio data, and video data

The 'may also' and 'other implementations ' parts are optional, so the
essential elements of a game console are:

processor
non-removable hard disk

Claim 1 would thus appear to cover almost every game-capable computer
system that has two hard disks; presumably including high-end TRS-80 and
Apple-II models from the 1970s.
--
Rahul

Jul 20 '05 #6
>>>>> "Rahul" == Rahul Dhesi <c.*******@Micr osoftX.usenet.u s.com> writes:

Rahul> Since processors, hard disks, data, and program, are very
Rahul> generic terms, how much this patent will cover will likely
Rahul> hinge on what 'game console' means. And, from reading some
Rahul> of the patent, it seems to me that pretty much any machine
Rahul> that lets you play games is a game console.

Then, you need to define "game". Is life (not the game of life) not a
game? Then, why would using a computer to make a calculation not be
considered just a subgame of that grand game? Any calculation is
nothing but a number game, isn't it?
Rahul> The gaming system includes a game console and one or more
Rahul> controllers. The game console is equipped with a processor
Rahul> and a non-removable hard disk drive coupled to the
Rahul> processor. The game console may also include a memory, a
Rahul> portable media drive configured to communicate with a
Rahul> storage disc, one or more portable memory units, and
Rahul> broadband connectivity. In other implementations , the hard
Rahul> disk drive is configured to store game data, audio data,
Rahul> and video data

Any PC-type computer nowadays satisfy these "requiremen ts". So,
they're all suddenly "game consoles"?
Rahul> The 'may also' and 'other implementations ' parts are
Rahul> optional, so the essential elements of a game console are:

Rahul> processor non-removable hard disk

So, we have to make harddisks removable so as to escape this prison.
Good! USB cases for harddisks are in production and can be quite
cheap!
--
Lee Sau Dan +Z05biGVm-(Big5) ~{@nJX6X~}(HZ)

E-mail: da****@informat ik.uni-freiburg.de
Home page: http://www.informatik.uni-freiburg.de/~danlee
Jul 20 '05 #7
theodp wrote:
theodp writes "As if there weren't enough dodgy patents, here's an
excerpt from one granted to Microsoft Tuesday for a 'Method and
apparatus for displaying information regarding stored data in a gaming
system': 'When saving a game, the saved game data may include a
descriptive name of the saved game, a graphic representation of the
state of the game when the game was saved, a description of the game
state when the game was saved, and a date and time that the game was
saved.'" I'm trying to figure out if there's more to this patent, but
the more I read, the worse it seems. How is this possibly
"non-obvious"?

--> Link to Patent

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...mber=6,716,102

--> Link to Patent File History (Shows Two Earlier Rejections)

http://pair.uspto.gov/cgi-bin/final/...mber=6,716,102


Well, it is (IMHO) even a bit dodgier than from the abstract.
The first claim reads:
1. A game console, comprising:
a processor; and
a non-removable hard disk drive coupled to the processor, the hard disk
drive including a first subdirectory configured to store data associated
with a first application, and the hard disk drive including a second
subdirectory configured to store data associated with a second application.

At one level, you have a game machine with a hard drive. At another,
you could argue that it applies to general purpose computers being
used (sometimes?) as a gaming console. The detailed description
has the game console hooked to a display and controller(s), connected
via for example USB or wireless. There is little in the console
that would differenciate it from a general purpose computer.
It uses preferably industry standard busses (ISA, MCA, EISA, VESA,
PCI), has a two level cache with DDR SDRAM, etc. It preferably
has a 3D graphics processing unit, etc.

The problem here is that general purpose computers have been used
as "game consoles" for years, with almost identical hardware
configurations. Gaming controls have been in use with them for
years too. I remember using a flight simulator controller at
least a decade ago - and I am not a gamer. Add to this that
different games would logically store their own data in their
own subdirectories (arguably "conguratio n").

One of the things that condemns the patent to me are claims 2 and 11,
which add the restriction that the first application is a game.
This implies (since dependent claims must narrow) that applications
need not be games.

The detailed description talks about different types of data in
different regions of a disk - such as settings versus user data.
It talks about placing settings in a part of the disk only
accessably via API (note - ever hear of the Registry? I know
that MSFT is a big company, but come on). Some hardware games
here are mentioned, but then negated, as it is then generalized.

Arguably, the "configure" could refer to OS or firmware implemented
restrictions limiting a given application to a given subdirectory.
But note that even though at one point, different applications are
limited to different areas of the disk, this is negated as far as
the claims are concerned when generalized and mention is made that
this may result in running out of room in one area while there is
room elsewhere on the disk (shades of IBM mainframe architectures).
It is also somewhat negated when it is noted that some applications
could access (delete) data from multiple subdirectories.

All in all, a patent in which at least some, if not most, of the
claims should have been rejected (IMHO) due to either lack of
novelty, or more likely, obviousness. IMHO, every time I saw
something that I thought could be novel and nonobvious, it was
broadened into something that wasn't. I think that if they had
concentrated on what probably was novel and nonobvious, and
hadn't gotten greedy (through their broadening), a decent patent
might have resulted.

It should be noted that though I read the patent, that I did not do
more than peruse the list of actions in the prosecution history.
In order to truly determine the scope of the patent, it would be
necessary to review the actual documentation in that history,
most notably the contents of the office actions and their responses.
For example, during prosecution, it is possible that
MSFT made admissions therein that might have limited the meaning
of terms in the patent to the extent that a truly novel and
nonobvious invention was ultimately patented.
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
The preceding was not a legal opinion, and is not my employer's.
Original portions Copyright 2004 Bruce E. Hayden,all rights reserved
My work may be copied in whole or part, with proper attribution,
as long as the copying is not for commercial gain.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Bruce E. Hayden bh*****@ieee.or g
Dillon, Colorado bh*****@highdow n.com
Phoenix, Arizona bh*****@copatla w.com

Jul 20 '05 #8
Rahul Dhesi wrote:
The essence of Claim 1 in its entirety is: a game console, a processor;
two hard disks, and on each hard disk, data associated with a program.
Actually, a processor coupled to one hard drive with two subdirectories.
Since processors, hard disks, data, and program, are very generic terms,
how much this patent will cover will likely hinge on what 'game console'
means. And, from reading some of the patent, it seems to me that pretty
much any machine that lets you play games is a game console.
Such as, for example, a general purpose (personal) computer.
The closest thing I find to a definition of 'game console' in the patent
is:

The gaming system includes a game console and one or more controllers.
The game console is equipped with a processor and a non-removable hard
disk drive coupled to the processor. The game console may also include
a memory, a portable media drive configured to communicate with a
storage disc, one or more portable memory units, and broadband
connectivity. In other implementations , the hard disk drive is
configured to store game data, audio data, and video data

The 'may also' and 'other implementations ' parts are optional, so the
essential elements of a game console are:

processor
non-removable hard disk

Claim 1 would thus appear to cover almost every game-capable computer
system that has two hard disks; presumably including high-end TRS-80 and
Apple-II models from the 1970s.


I think that you would also arguably have to add in the implied
ability to connect to and communicate with a gaming controller.
But of course, these have also been available for general purpose
computer systems for a long time. But of course, this is only
implied, and the only two hardware requirements are a processor
coupled to a hard drive.
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
The preceding was not a legal opinion, and is not my employer's.
Original portions Copyright 2004 Bruce E. Hayden,all rights reserved
My work may be copied in whole or part, with proper attribution,
as long as the copying is not for commercial gain.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Bruce E. Hayden bh*****@ieee.or g
Dillon, Colorado bh*****@highdow n.com
Phoenix, Arizona bh*****@copatla w.com

Jul 20 '05 #9
Well, you take this wonderfully generic patent, throw in Microsoft's
gigabux cash in hand and a busy legal department, and then you never
attack anyone who can defend themselves against the legal thrust
Microsoft can afford, and what does that do to the market? What was
that *meant* to do to the market?

It looks to me like Microsoft thinks Bush and the Republicans win the
coming election.

Not so cheers -- Martha Adams
Jul 20 '05 #10

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