College degree or not

[stryfedll]

Sorry this isn't directly concerning a programming language but I
wanted to reach real programmers. I am in college right now and am not
really interested in investing 3 more years of my life for a Bachelors
degree. I know that I can learn more about computer programming if I
spent the time over the next 3 years reading books and programming at
my own pace rather than an instructors pace, as well as not needing to
take so many electives, and courses unrelated to programming. I would
also save a ton of money and time. The benefits to not finishing
college and just learning myself a overwhelming, and there seems to be
only one problem.

Will I still be competitive in the job market without a degree? Would I
be less likely to succeed in the programming field without a degree,
even if I knew more than someone with a degree?

Can I please have your thoughts on this, Thank you

Shane

[arnuld]

Phlip wrote:

If you are in the USA, your best bet is to drop out of school and join a
gang because crime *does* pay (just look at our congress!!).

i did not get it. you want to say that you have "criminals' (murderers,
rapists) as ministers in your US senate/parliament (just like we have
in India).

Uh, I thought Congress consisted of white-collar, graduate criminals.
("We're not a gang we're a club!" Google "Skull & Bones", etc...)

yes i did & found that "George Bush" & his father "George Bush" were
members of "Skull & Bones" & it is a secret society at Yale University
& society's members are raised to high-power positions. that does not
say that "Skull & Bones" is a society of criminals, rapists &
murderers.

-- arnuld
http://arnuld.blogspot.com

[BobR]

Phlip wrote in message <4v*****************@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net>.. .

>BobR wrote:

>If you are in the USA, your best bet is to drop out of school and join a
gang
because crime *does* pay (just look at our congress!!).

Uh, I thought Congress consisted of white-collar, graduate criminals.
("We're not a gang we're a club!" Google "Skull & Bones", etc...)

"gang", "club"? It's the DemoPublican corporation, whose arch-Robin hood
mission statement includes "make the poor pay for the rich..."......

OOoohh Crap!!! Off-topic again. Where the hell did I hide that flame-suit?!?

Uhhh...
class DemoPublican{
void HangingChad();
void SmokeScreen();
void CoverUps();
void PageSex();
void Corruption(){ CoverUps();}
public:
void MyFellowAmericans();
void Promises( int &count ){ count = (NULL & void); };
void iDidNotHaveSexWith();
protected:
void Wages(int &LastYear){ LastYear *= LastYear;};
};

..... still lookin' fer that dang flame-suit!!

--
Bob R
POVrookie

[Phlip]

BobR wrote:

OOoohh Crap!!! Off-topic again. Where the hell did I hide that
flame-suit?!?

Off topic?

Uhhh...
class DemoPublican{
void HangingChad();
void SmokeScreen();
void CoverUps();
void PageSex();

Well, at least we are all on the same page here...

--
Phlip
http://www.greencheese.us/ZeekLand <-- NOT a blog!!!

[Chris Thomasson]

"Phlip" <ph******@yahoo.comwrote in message
news:dQ*******************@newssvr27.news.prodigy. net...

BobR wrote:

>OOoohh Crap!!! Off-topic again. Where the hell did I hide that
flame-suit?!?

> void PageSex();

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

What a Go$ damn% morbid freak! Scary, isn't it?

:O

[Ian Collins]

Daniel T. wrote:

co****@panix.com (Greg Comeau) wrote:

>>Daniel T. <da******@earthlink.netwrote:

>>>Eric <[e-mail]:

Daniel T. wrote:

>Eric <[e-mail]:

>>>>>>Turning down education is kind of like turning down a pile of gold.
>>You can get by without it, but hey. Pile of gold.
>
>That analogy only holds if someone else is paying for your education.

I am saying education has worth. Gold has worth. Neither come for free,
either monetarily or in personal effort. This does not rob them of worth.

Yes of course. The question though is whether the cost of going to
university (both in time and money) is worth the reward. That's what the
OP wants to know.

If the goal is to become a good programmer, the answer is no. If the
goal is to get a good programming job, then answer is yes.

Hmm. The answer to both is maybe. IMO there is too many
variables involved for such black and whiteness.

The question is, what does it take to get a job in today's market? When
there are hundreds of resumes per opening

Hundreds? Last time I was recruiting, I had a hell of a time finding one.

--
Ian Collins.

[Phlip]

Chris Thomasson wrote:

void PageSex();

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

What a Go$ damn% morbid freak! Scary, isn't it?

Totally. Much worse than killing over half a million Iraqis.

--
Phlip

[Thomas Matthews]

stryfedll wrote:

Sorry this isn't directly concerning a programming language but I
wanted to reach real programmers. I am in college right now and am not
really interested in investing 3 more years of my life for a Bachelors
degree. I know that I can learn more about computer programming if I
spent the time over the next 3 years reading books and programming at
my own pace rather than an instructors pace, as well as not needing to
take so many electives, and courses unrelated to programming. I would
also save a ton of money and time. The benefits to not finishing
college and just learning myself a overwhelming, and there seems to be
only one problem.

Will I still be competitive in the job market without a degree? Would I
be less likely to succeed in the programming field without a degree,
even if I knew more than someone with a degree?

Can I please have your thoughts on this, Thank you

Shane

You could study all the coursework yourself, then take a proficiency
test. If you pass the test, you earn your degree.
--
Thomas Matthews

C++ newsgroup welcome message:
http://www.slack.net/~shiva/welcome.txt
C++ Faq: http://www.parashift.com/c++-faq-lite
C Faq: http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/c-faq/top.html
alt.comp.lang.learn.c-c++ faq:
http://www.comeaucomputing.com/learn/faq/
Other sites:
http://www.josuttis.com -- C++ STL Library book
http://www.sgi.com/tech/stl -- Standard Template Library

[Greg Comeau]

In article <1Lh%g.34533$tO5.32631@fed1read10>,
Thomas Matthews <Th**************************@cox.netwrote:

>You could study all the coursework yourself, then take a proficiency
test. If you pass the test, you earn your degree.

I'm curious about whether you are saying this is an actual thing.
--
Greg Comeau / 20 years of Comeauity! Intel Mac Port now in beta!
Comeau C/C++ ONLINE == http://www.comeaucomputing.com/tryitout
World Class Compilers: Breathtaking C++, Amazing C99, Fabulous C90.
Comeau C/C++ with Dinkumware's Libraries... Have you tried it?

[Christopher Benson-Manica]

Greg Comeau <co****@panix.comwrote:

Thomas Matthews <Th**************************@cox.netwrote:

You could study all the coursework yourself, then take a proficiency
test. If you pass the test, you earn your degree.

I'm curious about whether you are saying this is an actual thing.

There are some online universities that seem to offer exactly that, so
that someone fairly knowledgeable could walk in and out with a degree
in a week or two. I really don't think that's preferable to either
going to a real school for a real degree or getting real
certifications.

--
C. Benson Manica | I *should* know what I'm talking about - if I
cbmanica(at)gmail.com | don't, I need to know. Flames welcome.

[Default User]

Christopher Benson-Manica wrote:

Greg Comeau <co****@panix.comwrote:

Thomas Matthews <Th**************************@cox.netwrote:

You could study all the coursework yourself, then take a
proficiency test. If you pass the test, you earn your degree.

I'm curious about whether you are saying this is an actual thing.

There are some online universities that seem to offer exactly that, so
that someone fairly knowledgeable could walk in and out with a degree
in a week or two. I really don't think that's preferable to either
going to a real school for a real degree or getting real
certifications.

I don't know of any. There are non-accredited "universities" that will
give you degrees for "life experience", but you're just buying a piece
of paper.

Actualy online universities require you to go through the classwork,
but doing it remotely.


Brian

[Steve Pope]

Daniel T. <da******@earthlink.netwrote:

The question is, what does it take to get a job in today's
market? When there are hundreds of resumes per opening, the
first most important factor is who you know, second runner up
are "resume hot spots" (like degrees.) Skill doesn't comes in
handy until the interview/testing stage.

The good news is that there are not hundreds of resumes per
opening in today job market. The market is reasonably healthy
right now.

But you're right; during (one of) the recession(s) we'd place
job ads in the San Jose Mercury News and get literally hundreds
of resumes per opening. Those without college degrees from
known good colleges/universities in the field were ditched.
Those who changed schools or majors or who were not on a steady
career path were ditched. Those who had worked with a group we
were familiar with (and could therefore obtain references that
meant anything to us) were the ones selected for interview.

Steve

[Phlip]

Steve Pope wrote:

But you're right; during (one of) the recession(s) we'd place
job ads in the San Jose Mercury News and get literally hundreds
of resumes per opening. Those without college degrees from
known good colleges/universities in the field were ditched.
Those who changed schools or majors or who were not on a steady
career path were ditched. Those who had worked with a group we
were familiar with (and could therefore obtain references that
meant anything to us) were the ones selected for interview.

Translation: I want anyone else (a school, another team) to tell me what I
can't figure out for myself, if someone's any good.

--
Phlip
http://www.greencheese.us/ZeekLand <-- NOT a blog!!!

[Greg Comeau]

In article <eh**********@chessie.cirr.com>,
Christopher Benson-Manica <at***@ukato.freeshell.orgwrote:

>Greg Comeau <co****@panix.comwrote:

>Thomas Matthews <Th**************************@cox.netwrote:

>You could study all the coursework yourself, then take a proficiency
test. If you pass the test, you earn your degree.

>I'm curious about whether you are saying this is an actual thing.

There are some online universities that seem to offer exactly that, so
that someone fairly knowledgeable could walk in and out with a degree
in a week or two. I really don't think that's preferable to either
going to a real school for a real degree or getting real
certifications.

So it's like a college GED?
--
Greg Comeau / 20 years of Comeauity! Intel Mac Port now in beta!
Comeau C/C++ ONLINE == http://www.comeaucomputing.com/tryitout
World Class Compilers: Breathtaking C++, Amazing C99, Fabulous C90.
Comeau C/C++ with Dinkumware's Libraries... Have you tried it?

[Steve Pope]

Phlip <ph******@yahoo.comwrote:

>Steve Pope wrote:

>But you're right; during (one of) the recession(s) we'd place
job ads in the San Jose Mercury News and get literally hundreds
of resumes per opening. Those without college degrees from
known good colleges/universities in the field were ditched.
Those who changed schools or majors or who were not on a steady
career path were ditched. Those who had worked with a group we
were familiar with (and could therefore obtain references that
meant anything to us) were the ones selected for interview.

Translation: I want anyone else (a school, another team) to tell
me what I can't figure out for myself, if someone's any good.

I take exception to your exact wording, but I'll cotton to some
of the underlying thinking. If I can get a reference on an applicant
from someone I *already know*, that counts more than ten random
references.

On the other hand, I've hired people without checking references,
and knowing nothing of their prior associates, and had it worked
out fantastically -- just on strength of interview. The gotcha
is in a slow job market, such applicants may not have made it through
the stack to the interview.

Steve

>
--
Phlip
http://www.greencheese.us/ZeekLand <-- NOT a blog!!!

[Christopher Benson-Manica]

Default User <de***********@yahoo.comwrote:

I don't know of any. There are non-accredited "universities" that will
give you degrees for "life experience", but you're just buying a piece
of paper.

Actualy online universities require you to go through the classwork,
but doing it remotely.

Western Governors' University, http://www.wgu.edu, claims to be
completely competency-based - you can take the classes if you want to,
but if you can ace all the exams you can get a bachelor's degree in a
rather short time. Again, I wouldn't recommend this approach to (m)any
people, but the school is "regionally accredited" and the degree you get
would seem not to be totally worthless - if only because part of the
coursework involves getting your certs.

--
C. Benson Manica | I *should* know what I'm talking about - if I
cbmanica(at)gmail.com | don't, I need to know. Flames welcome.

[Christopher Benson-Manica]

Greg Comeau <co****@panix.comwrote:

There are some online universities that seem to offer exactly that, so
that someone fairly knowledgeable could walk in and out with a degree
in a week or two. I really don't think that's preferable to either
going to a real school for a real degree or getting real
certifications.

So it's like a college GED?

Certainly in some cases it's no better, but see my reply to Brian.

--
C. Benson Manica | I *should* know what I'm talking about - if I
cbmanica(at)gmail.com | don't, I need to know. Flames welcome.

[Default User]

Christopher Benson-Manica wrote:

Default User <de***********@yahoo.comwrote:

I don't know of any. There are non-accredited "universities" that
will give you degrees for "life experience", but you're just buying
a piece of paper.

Western Governors' University, http://www.wgu.edu, claims to be
completely competency-based - you can take the classes if you want to,
but if you can ace all the exams you can get a bachelor's degree in a
rather short time. Again, I wouldn't recommend this approach to
(m)any people, but the school is "regionally accredited" and the
degree you get would seem not to be totally worthless - if only
because part of the coursework involves getting your certs.

Hmmm, their accreditation doesn't look too bad.

http://www.wgu.edu/about_WGU/accreditation.asp
That might be a viable choice.


Brian