emacs, linux and C

[Richard G. Riley]

I am looking for a way to integrate the C library documentation into
emacs' C mode. Adding any linux library documentation would be a
bonus.

e.g hilite word, hotkey to library documentation.

thanks for any help.

--
Remove evomer to reply

[Ben Pfaff]

"Richard G. Riley" <rg***********@gmail.com> writes:

I am looking for a way to integrate the C library documentation into
emacs' C mode. Adding any linux library documentation would be a
bonus.

You'd be better off asking about this in an Emacs newsgroup.
--
Peter Seebach on C99:
"[F]or the most part, features were added, not removed. This sounds
great until you try to carry a full-sized printout of the standard
around for a day."

[Keith Thompson]

"Richard G. Riley" <rg***********@gmail.com> writes:

I am looking for a way to integrate the C library documentation into
emacs' C mode. Adding any linux library documentation would be a
bonus.

e.g hilite word, hotkey to library documentation.

That's not really a C question. Try gnu.emacs.

--
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) ks***@mib.org <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
San Diego Supercomputer Center <*> <http://users.sdsc.edu/~kst>
We must do something. This is something. Therefore, we must do this.

[Richard G. Riley]

On 2006-02-19, Keith Thompson <ks***@mib.org> wrote:

"Richard G. Riley" <rg***********@gmail.com> writes:

I am looking for a way to integrate the C library documentation into
emacs' C mode. Adding any linux library documentation would be a
bonus.

e.g hilite word, hotkey to library documentation.

That's not really a C question. Try gnu.emacs.

I will, thanks. This being a C programmers group though I didnt think it was
too OT.

--
Remove evomer to reply

[CBFalconer]

"Richard G. Riley" wrote:

On 2006-02-19, Keith Thompson <ks***@mib.org> wrote:

"Richard G. Riley" <rg***********@gmail.com> writes:

I am looking for a way to integrate the C library documentation
into emacs' C mode. Adding any linux library documentation would
be a bonus.

e.g hilite word, hotkey to library documentation.

That's not really a C question. Try gnu.emacs.

I will, thanks. This being a C programmers group though I didnt
think it was too OT.

In that case it is obvious you have not lurked for long enough.

--
Some useful references about C:
<http://www.ungerhu.com/jxh/clc.welcome.txt>
<http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/top.html>
<http://benpfaff.org/writings/clc/off-topic.html>
<http://anubis.dkuug.dk/jtc1/sc22/wg14/www/docs/n869/> (C99)
<http://www.dinkumware.com/refxc.html> (C-library}
<http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/> (GNU docs)
<http://clc-wiki.net> (C-info)

[Richard G. Riley]

On 2006-02-20, CBFalconer <cb********@yahoo.com> wrote:

"Richard G. Riley" wrote:

On 2006-02-19, Keith Thompson <ks***@mib.org> wrote:

"Richard G. Riley" <rg***********@gmail.com> writes:

I am looking for a way to integrate the C library documentation
into emacs' C mode. Adding any linux library documentation would
be a bonus.

e.g hilite word, hotkey to library documentation.

That's not really a C question. Try gnu.emacs.

I will, thanks. This being a C programmers group though I didnt
think it was too OT.

In that case it is obvious you have not lurked for long enough.

Without wanting to continue this too long, why would it be incorrect
to ask seasoned programmers such a question? Programmers who,
presumably, use some sort of IDE/Editor combo to support the C
language development. Google didn't help me, and I considered that
some clever sdo here might have implemented something.

--
Remove evomer to reply

[CBFalconer]

"Richard G. Riley" wrote:

On 2006-02-20, CBFalconer <cb********@yahoo.com> wrote:

"Richard G. Riley" wrote:

On 2006-02-19, Keith Thompson <ks***@mib.org> wrote:
"Richard G. Riley" <rg***********@gmail.com> writes:

> I am looking for a way to integrate the C library documentation
> into emacs' C mode. Adding any linux library documentation would
> be a bonus.
>
> e.g hilite word, hotkey to library documentation.

That's not really a C question. Try gnu.emacs.

I will, thanks. This being a C programmers group though I didnt
think it was too OT.

In that case it is obvious you have not lurked for long enough.

Without wanting to continue this too long, why would it be incorrect
to ask seasoned programmers such a question? Programmers who,
presumably, use some sort of IDE/Editor combo to support the C
language development. Google didn't help me, and I considered that
some clever sdo here might have implemented something.

Because this is the wrong place. The subject is the language, not
the various systems and implementations. The simple act of lurking
should have made that apparent, and also have suggested several
possible suitable newsgroups.

--
"If you want to post a followup via groups.google.com, don't use
the broken "Reply" link at the bottom of the article. Click on
"show options" at the top of the article, then click on the
"Reply" at the bottom of the article headers." - Keith Thompson
More details at: <http://cfaj.freeshell.org/google/>
Also see <http://www.safalra.com/special/googlegroupsreply/>

[Richard G. Riley]

On 2006-02-20, CBFalconer <cb********@yahoo.com> wrote:

"Richard G. Riley" wrote:

On 2006-02-20, CBFalconer <cb********@yahoo.com> wrote:

"Richard G. Riley" wrote:
On 2006-02-19, Keith Thompson <ks***@mib.org> wrote:
> "Richard G. Riley" <rg***********@gmail.com> writes:

>> I am looking for a way to integrate the C library documentation
>> into emacs' C mode. Adding any linux library documentation would
>> be a bonus.
>>
>> e.g hilite word, hotkey to library documentation.
>
> That's not really a C question. Try gnu.emacs.

I will, thanks. This being a C programmers group though I didnt
think it was too OT.

In that case it is obvious you have not lurked for long enough.

Without wanting to continue this too long, why would it be incorrect
to ask seasoned programmers such a question? Programmers who,
presumably, use some sort of IDE/Editor combo to support the C
language development. Google didn't help me, and I considered that
some clever sdo here might have implemented something.

Because this is the wrong place. The subject is the language, not
the various systems and implementations. The simple act of lurking
should have made that apparent, and also have suggested several
possible suitable newsgroups.

Since I asked about supporting the language it is hardly the end of
the world. Now, since you were not able or not willing to help I
really dont know why you bother lecturing. You may or may not realise
this but this is a PROGRAMMING group dedicated to the C language and I
asked about a programming utility for the C langauge. Since I was
specifically asking about C bindings for emacs then here he is valid
as .emacs. Or would your brother in .emacs tell me to come here since
emacs is, in fact, built in lispp?

As for your comment about implementation this is clearly wrong since
many questions cover the various standards and implementations as
related to how the language is.

Sheesh. Save your energy for helping someone.
--
Remove evomer to reply

[August Karlstrom]

Richard G. Riley wrote:
[snip]

Since I asked about supporting the language it is hardly the end of
the world. Now, since you were not able or not willing to help I
really dont know why you bother lecturing. You may or may not realise
this but this is a PROGRAMMING group dedicated to the C language and I
asked about a programming utility for the C langauge. Since I was
specifically asking about C bindings for emacs then here he is valid
as .emacs. Or would your brother in .emacs tell me to come here since
emacs is, in fact, built in lispp?

Your question is obviously about Emacs. Ask in gnu.emacs.help.
August

--
I am the "ILOVEGNU" signature virus. Just copy me to your
signature. This email was infected under the terms of the GNU
General Public License.

[Chris Dollin]

Richard G. Riley wrote:

Since I asked about supporting the language it is hardly the end of
the world. Now, since you were not able or not willing to help I
really dont know why you bother lecturing. You may or may not realise
this but this is a PROGRAMMING group dedicated to the C language

.... the /language/, as defined by the standard(s), rather than things
that happen to target the language, or use the language, or help you
edit the language.

--
Chris "was stirred, now shaken" Dollin
RIP Andreas "G'Kar" Katsulas, May 1946 - February 2006

[Dik T. Winter]

In article <45************@individual.net> "Richard G. Riley" <rg***********@gmail.com> writes:
....

> I am looking for a way to integrate the C library documentation
> into emacs' C mode. Adding any linux library documentation would
> be a bonus.
>
> e.g hilite word, hotkey to library documentation.

That's not really a C question. Try gnu.emacs.

I will, thanks. This being a C programmers group though I didnt
think it was too OT.

In that case it is obvious you have not lurked for long enough.

Without wanting to continue this too long, why would it be incorrect
to ask seasoned programmers such a question? Programmers who,
presumably, use some sort of IDE/Editor combo to support the C
language development.

It is your presumption that is wrong. I think that most seasoned C
programmers do not use some sort of IDE/Editor combo at all, or at
most a very primitive set. At least, I do. When I get an editor
that highlights an opening brace when I enter a closing brace, I
find that very distracting. The same holds for the other features of
emacs' C mode. When I enter new text I prefer, indeed, emacs (but
without features, please); but when I come to changing text I prefer
vi. But that is coming close to editor wars. And it explains why
I use ksh with emacs modes but have as visual editor vi.
--
dik t. winter, cwi, kruislaan 413, 1098 sj amsterdam, nederland, [phone]
home: bovenover 215, 1025 jn amsterdam, nederland; http://www.cwi.nl/~dik/

[Vladimir S. Oka]

Richard G. Riley wrote:

Since I asked about supporting the language it is hardly the end of
the world. Now, since you were not able or not willing to help I
really dont know why you bother lecturing. You may or may not realise
this but this is a PROGRAMMING group dedicated to the C language and I
asked about a programming utility for the C langauge. Since I was
And where exactly does it say /programming/ /utility/? It's:

comp -- for computer
lang -- for language
c -- for C

There's comp.programming to discuss various programming techniques (any
langauge). There are also groups that deal with various flavours of
tools.

Your question was quite obviously about the /tools/ so you were
politely directed to where you can get better help. What could have
been added was that, if you encounter any further questions about C
/language/ this is the place to ask them (e.g. if you're implementing
in C and encounter problems, or if you need clarification for your
references).
specifically asking about C bindings for emacs then here he is valid
as .emacs. Or would your brother in .emacs tell me to come here since
emacs is, in fact, built in lispp?
/Emacs/ C /bindings/ have really nothing to do with C, have they (I
don't think they're mentioned in the C Standard)? They /do/ however
have /everything/ to do with Emacs, hence an Emacs group is the
appropriate place to ask.
As for your comment about implementation this is clearly wrong since
many questions cover the various standards and implementations as
related to how the language is.
I don't quite understand this, but: there is only /one/ current C
Standard and that's how the C language /is/. Implementation defined
issues are discussed here, but mostly, and preferrably, in terms how to
avoid their pitfalls.

Your question, OTH, does not address either the C language, or any of
its implementations. So, why do you insist we're wrong,and you're
right?
Sheesh. Save your energy for helping someone.

Indeed. You should better channel yours towards solving your problem.

--
BR, Vladimir

[Richard G. Riley]

On 2006-02-22, Vladimir S. Oka <no****@btopenworld.com> wrote:

Richard G. Riley wrote:

Since I asked about supporting the language it is hardly the end of
the world. Now, since you were not able or not willing to help I
really dont know why you bother lecturing. You may or may not realise
this but this is a PROGRAMMING group dedicated to the C language and I
asked about a programming utility for the C langauge. Since I was
And where exactly does it say /programming/ /utility/? It's:

Oh ffs. Another member of this NGs self appoined mafioC.

comp -- for computer
lang -- for language
c -- for C

Thank you for taking the time and effort to lecture me on the use of
this group. I would like to thank you very much. The fact that you are
clearly unable to answer the question I asked is also noted.

Please be prompt in replying to everyone that asks about algorithms or
real world solutions and remind them that this group is reserved to talk about
the language only.

I appreciate your input : you have been a great help.

[Vladimir S. Oka]

Richard G. Riley wrote:

On 2006-02-22, Vladimir S. Oka <no****@btopenworld.com> wrote:

Richard G. Riley wrote:

Since I asked about supporting the language it is hardly the end of
the world. Now, since you were not able or not willing to help I
really dont know why you bother lecturing. You may or may not realise
this but this is a PROGRAMMING group dedicated to the C language and I
asked about a programming utility for the C langauge. Since I was
And where exactly does it say /programming/ /utility/? It's:

Oh ffs. Another member of this NGs self appoined mafioC.

No need to be rude. It does not make your POV any stronger, quite the
opposite.

comp -- for computer
lang -- for language
c -- for C

Thank you for taking the time and effort to lecture me on the use of
this group. I would like to thank you very much. The fact that you are
clearly unable to answer the question I asked is also noted.

And that's exactly why your question is OT here.

If I knew Emacs, I'd hang out in it's NG, and wouldn't see your
question. If I knew Emacs /and/ C, I'd reply with a followup-to set to
an Emacs group, and not here. Not knowing Emacs, the best I can do is
point you to where the Emacs experts hang out. Whether I know any C can
be seen in my various other posts.
Please be prompt in replying to everyone that asks about algorithms or
real world solutions and remind them that this group is reserved to talk about
the language only.
You obviously didn't lurk long enough, or carefuly enough...
I appreciate your input : you have been a great help.

You're welcome.

--
BR, Vladimir

[Richard G. Riley]

On 2006-02-22, Vladimir S. Oka <no****@btopenworld.com> wrote:

Richard G. Riley wrote:

On 2006-02-22, Vladimir S. Oka <no****@btopenworld.com> wrote:

> Richard G. Riley wrote:
>> Since I asked about supporting the language it is hardly the end of
>> the world. Now, since you were not able or not willing to help I
>> really dont know why you bother lecturing. You may or may not realise
>> this but this is a PROGRAMMING group dedicated to the C language and I
>> asked about a programming utility for the C langauge. Since I was
>
> And where exactly does it say /programming/ /utility/? It's:

Oh ffs. Another member of this NGs self appoined mafioC.

No need to be rude. It does not make your POV any stronger, quite the
opposite.

Now you are advising on etiquette? You really are quite the complete
poster.

I dont know why I am discussing this because it is clearly like
banging my head against a brick wall with some of you zealots. You are
clearly an intelligent man so consider this once more:

I had a requirement to access C language APIS/Stdrefs from within a
programmers editor.

I was unable to find info elsewhere.

This group is dedicated to C.

It is not a leap of faith to assume that the people who contribute
here use editors.

From this we may deduce that maybe some of these C programmers use
emacs.

From here we obtain that amazing conclusion that possibly C
programmers who post here know how to bring up context C help from
within emacs.

Still with me?

Now lets make it more complicated : where is a C programmer who uses
emacs as his editor more likely to be?

com*.emacs?
com*.c?

Hmmm.

Hence I asked here.

And that, for me, is the end of this ridiculous discussion

[Flash Gordon]

Richard G. Riley wrote:

<snip>

Now lets make it more complicated : where is a C programmer who uses
emacs as his editor more likely to be?

com*.emacs?
com*.c?
Obviously, if they are sufficiently interested in both, they will hang
out in both.
Hmmm.

Hence I asked here.

And that, for me, is the end of this ridiculous discussion

Yes, it is ridiculous that you won't accept that your question should
have been asked else where.
--
Flash Gordon
Living in interesting times.
Web site - http://home.flash-gordon.me.uk/
comp.lang.c posting guidlines and intro -
http://clc-wiki.net/wiki/Intro_to_clc

[Richard G. Riley]

On 2006-02-22, Flash Gordon <sp**@flash-gordon.me.uk> wrote:

Richard G. Riley wrote:

<snip>

Now lets make it more complicated : where is a C programmer who uses
emacs as his editor more likely to be?

com*.emacs?
com*.c?
Obviously, if they are sufficiently interested in both, they will hang
out in both.

Are you joking? Why would a C programmer who uses emacs "hang out" in
an emacs newsgroup? he doesnt "do emacs" for a living. he almost
certainly "does C".

I dont know. Maybe I've gone mad or something but I completely fail to
see the problem. And the more "reasons" I get for why I shouldnt have
asked this perfectly innocous c related question here are total
hogwash in my opinion. Still, it is a pubilc NG and if you want to
berate me for asking such a question here then it is your right to do so.

Hmmm.

Hence I asked here.

And that, for me, is the end of this ridiculous discussion

Yes, it is ridiculous that you won't accept that your question should
have been asked else where.

It was : and I didnt get any info so I asked here. Now, I must try and
not take the bait and put this on the "finished with" list.

--
Remove evomer to reply

[Vladimir S. Oka]

Richard G. Riley wrote:

On 2006-02-22, Flash Gordon <sp**@flash-gordon.me.uk> wrote:

Richard G. Riley wrote:

<snip>

Now lets make it more complicated : where is a C programmer who uses
emacs as his editor more likely to be?

com*.emacs?
com*.c?

Obviously, if they are sufficiently interested in both, they will hang
out in both.

Are you joking? Why would a C programmer who uses emacs "hang out" in
an emacs newsgroup? he doesnt "do emacs" for a living. he almost
certainly "does C".

I struggle with your logic. If he does C for a living using Emacs, then
surely his livelyhood also depends on the latter?

<snip>

Hmmm.

Hence I asked here.

And that, for me, is the end of this ridiculous discussion

Yes, it is ridiculous that you won't accept that your question should
have been asked else where.

It was : and I didnt get any info so I asked here. Now, I must try and
not take the bait and put this on the "finished with" list.

Do as you please, it is on mine.

*plonk*

--
BR, Vladimir

[Richard G. Riley]

On 2006-02-22, Vladimir S. Oka <no****@btopenworld.com> wrote:

Richard G. Riley wrote:

On 2006-02-22, Flash Gordon <sp**@flash-gordon.me.uk> wrote:

> Richard G. Riley wrote:
>
><snip>
>
>> Now lets make it more complicated : where is a C programmer who uses
>> emacs as his editor more likely to be?
>>
>> com*.emacs?
>> com*.c?
>
> Obviously, if they are sufficiently interested in both, they will hang
> out in both.

Are you joking? Why would a C programmer who uses emacs "hang out" in
an emacs newsgroup? he doesnt "do emacs" for a living. he almost
certainly "does C".

I struggle with your logic. If he does C for a living using Emacs, then
surely his livelyhood also depends on the latter?

I hope to hell you are not a professional programmer with reasoning
like this. Tell me, do you "hang out" in a newsgroup dedicated to your
newsreader? No? Thought not.

[CBFalconer]

"Richard G. Riley" wrote:

.... snip ...
Now lets make it more complicated : where is a C programmer who
uses emacs as his editor more likely to be?

com*.emacs?
com*.c?

Hmmm.

Hence I asked here.

And that, for me, is the end of this ridiculous discussion

And you were told some time ago that your conclusion was in error,
and that com*.emacs would be a better possibility. Instead of
accepting the advice and going somewhere that your basic wants
might be satisfied, you remained here arguing and generally making
life unpleasant for us all, not to mention consuming bandwidth. In
the process you have exposed you own rude boorishness, and
persuaded many of us to ignore you. If you have some topical
question in the future this will affect the response you get.
PLONK

--
"If you want to post a followup via groups.google.com, don't use
the broken "Reply" link at the bottom of the article. Click on
"show options" at the top of the article, then click on the
"Reply" at the bottom of the article headers." - Keith Thompson
More details at: <http://cfaj.freeshell.org/google/>
Also see <http://www.safalra.com/special/googlegroupsreply/>

[Nick Keighley]

Richard G. Riley wrote:

On 2006-02-22, Vladimir S. Oka <no****@btopenworld.com> wrote:

Richard G. Riley wrote:
<snip>

[...] Why would a C programmer who uses emacs "hang out" in
an emacs newsgroup? he doesnt "do emacs" for a living. he almost
certainly "does C".

I struggle with your logic. If he does C for a living using Emacs, then
surely his livelyhood also depends on the latter?

I hope to hell you are not a professional programmer with reasoning
like this. Tell me, do you "hang out" in a newsgroup dedicated to your
newsreader? No? Thought not.

I've been on news groups for my IDE, my editor and my platform.
Jolly helpful they were too.
--
Nick Keighley

"They consider console off topic, i consider them morons."
Ioannis Vranos (comp.lang.c)

[Richard G. Riley]

On 2006-02-22, CBFalconer <cb********@yahoo.com> wrote:

"Richard G. Riley" wrote:

... snip ...

Now lets make it more complicated : where is a C programmer who
uses emacs as his editor more likely to be?

com*.emacs?
com*.c?

Hmmm.

Hence I asked here.

And that, for me, is the end of this ridiculous discussion

And you were told some time ago that your conclusion was in error,
and that com*.emacs would be a better possibility. Instead of
accepting the advice and going somewhere that your basic wants
might be satisfied, you remained here arguing and generally making
life unpleasant for us all, not to mention consuming bandwidth. In
the process you have exposed you own rude boorishness, and
persuaded many of us to ignore you. If you have some topical
question in the future this will affect the response you get.
PLONK

Interestingly enough a C programmer who reads here DID send me the
solution. And the fact that you resort to a killfile because I stand
up to self important blowhards like yourself is indicative more of
your character than it is of mine. And i can assure you that your help
would not be particuarly welcome regardless.
--
Remove evomer to reply

[Richard G. Riley]

On 2006-02-22, Nick Keighley <ni******************@hotmail.com> wrote:

Richard G. Riley wrote:

On 2006-02-22, Vladimir S. Oka <no****@btopenworld.com> wrote:

> Richard G. Riley wrote:
<snip>
>> [...] Why would a C programmer who uses emacs "hang out" in
>> an emacs newsgroup? he doesnt "do emacs" for a living. he almost
>> certainly "does C".
>
> I struggle with your logic. If he does C for a living using Emacs, then
> surely his livelyhood also depends on the latter?
I hope to hell you are not a professional programmer with reasoning
like this. Tell me, do you "hang out" in a newsgroup dedicated to your
newsreader? No? Thought not.

I've been on news groups for my IDE, my editor and my platform.
Jolly helpful they were too.

Yes. They can be. No question. But that really isnt the point is it?
The emacs group did not have an answer. This group did.
--
Nick Keighley

"They consider console off topic, i consider them morons."
Ioannis Vranos (comp.lang.c)

--
Remove evomer to reply

[August Karlstrom]

Richard G. Riley wrote:

I had a requirement to access C language APIS/Stdrefs from within a
programmers editor.

I was unable to find info elsewhere.

This group is dedicated to C.

It is not a leap of faith to assume that the people who contribute
here use editors.

From this we may deduce that maybe some of these C programmers use
emacs.

From here we obtain that amazing conclusion that possibly C
programmers who post here know how to bring up context C help from
within emacs.

Still with me?

Now lets make it more complicated : where is a C programmer who uses
emacs as his editor more likely to be?

com*.emacs?
com*.c?

Hmmm.

Hence I asked here.

And that, for me, is the end of this ridiculous discussion

You don't seem to understand that your question is only marginally
related to C. If we generalize it just a bit it goes: "How do I
integrate library documentation for libraries written in the programming
language X with Emacs." This is obviously an Emacs/Emacs Lisp question.
August

--
I am the "ILOVEGNU" signature virus. Just copy me to your
signature. This email was infected under the terms of the GNU
General Public License.

[Richard G. Riley]

On 2006-02-22, August Karlstrom <fu********@comhem.se> wrote:

Richard G. Riley wrote:

I had a requirement to access C language APIS/Stdrefs from within a
programmers editor.

I was unable to find info elsewhere.

This group is dedicated to C.

It is not a leap of faith to assume that the people who contribute
here use editors.

From this we may deduce that maybe some of these C programmers use
emacs.

From here we obtain that amazing conclusion that possibly C
programmers who post here know how to bring up context C help from
within emacs.

Still with me?

Now lets make it more complicated : where is a C programmer who uses
emacs as his editor more likely to be?

com*.emacs?
com*.c?

Hmmm.

Hence I asked here.

And that, for me, is the end of this ridiculous discussion

You don't seem to understand that your question is only marginally
related to C. If we generalize it just a bit it goes: "How do I
integrate library documentation for libraries written in the programming
language X with Emacs." This is obviously an Emacs/Emacs Lisp question.
August

I do understand how related to C it is : it is related to C
programmers who inhabit this NG.

I got my solution here from a private email so it wasnt so stupid for
me to come here after all.

As for your example : I would expect to find the solution either in
emacs or (more likely) X newsgroup where X programmers/gurus hang out
and may well just use emacs to support their day to day existence.
--
Remove evomer to reply

[August Karlstrom]

Richard G. Riley wrote:

I do understand how related to C it is : it is related to C
programmers who inhabit this NG.

I got my solution here from a private email so it wasnt so stupid for
me to come here after all.

As for your example : I would expect to find the solution either in
emacs or (more likely) X newsgroup where X programmers/gurus hang out
and may well just use emacs to support their day to day existence.

I reckon many of the people at gnu.emacs.help are C programmers. After
all, C is one of, if not the, most widespread language.
August

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I am the "ILOVEGNU" signature virus. Just copy me to your
signature. This email was infected under the terms of the GNU
General Public License.

[Mark McIntyre]

On 20 Feb 2006 09:29:54 GMT, in comp.lang.c , "Richard G. Riley"
<rg***********@gmail.com> wrote:

Without wanting to continue this too long, why would it be incorrect
to ask seasoned programmers such a question?
Because the topic of the group is the C /language/, not how to use it
on a specific platform, or how to use a specific toolset.
Programmers who,
presumably, use some sort of IDE/Editor combo to support the C
language development.

Presumption erroneous. When programming on Solaris or Linux, I mostly
use vi, compile from the commandline and debug with printf.
Mark McIntyre
--
"Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place.
Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are,
by definition, not smart enough to debug it."
--Brian Kernighan

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[Mark McIntyre]

On 22 Feb 2006 15:12:00 GMT, in comp.lang.c , "Richard G. Riley"
<rg***********@gmail.com> wrote:

On 2006-02-22, Flash Gordon <sp**@flash-gordon.me.uk> wrote:

Obviously, if they are sufficiently interested in both, they will hang
out in both.
Are you joking? Why would a C programmer who uses emacs "hang out" in
an emacs newsgroup?

Presumably the words "sufficiently interested" are unknown to you.
I dont know. Maybe I've gone mad or something but I completely fail to
see the problem.
Thats apparent. Perhaps you need to lurk a bit longer.
And the more "reasons" I get for why I shouldnt have
asked this perfectly innocous c related question

Its not a bloody C related question, its an emacs question.

Mark McIntyre
--
"Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place.
Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are,
by definition, not smart enough to debug it."
--Brian Kernighan

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[Mark McIntyre]

On 22 Feb 2006 15:25:10 GMT, in comp.lang.c , "Richard G. Riley"
<rg***********@gmail.com> wrote:

On 2006-02-22, Vladimir S. Oka <no****@btopenworld.com> wrote:

I struggle with your logic. If he does C for a living using Emacs, then
surely his livelyhood also depends on the latter?

I hope to hell you are not a professional programmer with reasoning
like this. Tell me, do you "hang out" in a newsgroup dedicated to your
newsreader? No? Thought not.

You may want to read up on the meaning of the word "logic", since your
last statement has none.

If I posted to usenet as my livelihood, you can be sure I'd keep an
eye on the newsgroups relating to my tools.

If I used emacs day in and day out and depended on it professionally,
I'd keep an eye on relevant groups. Much as I do in fact monitor C,
linux, solaris, windows, gcc, etc through various media, as well as
banking, general computing and hardware issues.
Mark McIntyre
--
"Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place.
Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are,
by definition, not smart enough to debug it."
--Brian Kernighan

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[Al Balmer]

On 22 Feb 2006 08:49:14 -0800, "Nick Keighley"
<ni******************@hotmail.com> wrote:

Richard G. Riley wrote:

On 2006-02-22, Vladimir S. Oka <no****@btopenworld.com> wrote:

> Richard G. Riley wrote:
<snip>
>> [...] Why would a C programmer who uses emacs "hang out" in
>> an emacs newsgroup? he doesnt "do emacs" for a living. he almost
>> certainly "does C".
>
> I struggle with your logic. If he does C for a living using Emacs, then
> surely his livelyhood also depends on the latter?
I hope to hell you are not a professional programmer with reasoning
like this. Tell me, do you "hang out" in a newsgroup dedicated to your
newsreader? No? Thought not.

I no longer read Mr. Riley's posts, so I may be missing some context,
but this looks like an excellent example. There *are* newsgroups
dedicated to my newsreader, and if I have a question about using my
newsreader to post to c.l.c., I go to them to ask it. I don't ask it
in c.l.c., even though there are many in the group who use the same
reader, and even though I may sometimes use it to post C language
related articles.
I've been on news groups for my IDE, my editor and my platform.
Jolly helpful they were too.

--
Al Balmer
Sun City, AZ

[Micah Cowan]

"Richard G. Riley" <rg***********@gmail.com> writes:

On 2006-02-22, Vladimir S. Oka <no****@btopenworld.com> wrote:

Richard G. Riley wrote:

Since I asked about supporting the language it is hardly the end of
the world. Now, since you were not able or not willing to help I
really dont know why you bother lecturing. You may or may not realise
this but this is a PROGRAMMING group dedicated to the C language and I
asked about a programming utility for the C langauge. Since I was

And where exactly does it say /programming/ /utility/? It's:

Oh ffs. Another member of this NGs self appoined mafioC.

This seems plonkworthy to me.

Status does tend to come with seniority here--but much more so, with
correct answers (and questions). If you knew anything about Usenet,
you'd have stuck around here before posting (or at the least, thumbed
through the archive), and discovered what is proper to ask on this
newsgroup, which happily gets decided by those who frequent it. This
sort of question has been decided non-topical FOR AGES. Just because
you don't like that fact doesn't mean you get to ignore it.

There tends to be enough noise (actually, more than enough signal,too)
on a list like this as there is. We can't afford scope creep, which is
why we insist on people staying on-topic.

[Keith Thompson]

"Richard G. Riley" <rg***********@gmail.com> writes:

And that, for me, is the end of this ridiculous discussion

And yet you kept posting about it.

--
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) ks***@mib.org <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
San Diego Supercomputer Center <*> <http://users.sdsc.edu/~kst>
We must do something. This is something. Therefore, we must do this.

[Arndt Jonasson]

"Richard G. Riley" <rg***********@gmail.com> writes:

On 2006-02-22, Flash Gordon <sp**@flash-gordon.me.uk> wrote:

Richard G. Riley wrote:

<snip>

Now lets make it more complicated : where is a C programmer who uses
emacs as his editor more likely to be?

com*.emacs?
com*.c?

Obviously, if they are sufficiently interested in both, they will hang
out in both.

Are you joking? Why would a C programmer who uses emacs "hang out" in
an emacs newsgroup? he doesnt "do emacs" for a living. he almost
certainly "does C".

I dont know. Maybe I've gone mad or something but I completely fail to
see the problem. And the more "reasons" I get for why I shouldnt have
asked this perfectly innocous c related question here are total
hogwash in my opinion. Still, it is a pubilc NG and if you want to
berate me for asking such a question here then it is your right to do so.

Maybe the question could be seen as proper to comp.lang.c since it is
connected with programming in C, but as I see it, the problem is that
many helpful answers wouldn't be. The answer might be "Yes, use
blubbglob.el from this elisp site" and then someone else wants to be
helpful and says "I use these modifications" and now we have elisp
code in comp.lang.c, which is decidedly off-topic. Then it would have
been better to ask the question in the forum where the whole
discussion would be on-topic.

But why spend so many articles on this? If you're trying to compose
the perfect article which will logically persudade everyone to be of
your opinion, it won't happen - the more you explain your reasoning,
the more there is for someone to disagree with. You can't go back to
previous articles and say "_this_ is the key point where you were wrong,
now admit it and all will be fine".

[Richard G. Riley]

On 2006-02-23, Arndt Jonasson <do********@invalid.net> wrote:

Maybe the question could be seen as proper to comp.lang.c since it is
connected with programming in C, but as I see it, the problem is that
many helpful answers wouldn't be. The answer might be "Yes, use
blubbglob.el from this elisp site" and then someone else wants to be
helpful and says "I use these modifications" and now we have elisp
code in comp.lang.c, which is decidedly off-topic. Then it would have
been better to ask the question in the forum where the whole
discussion would be on-topic.
Like which NG? My whole issue with "the usual suspects" who are now in
my killfile or I'm in theirs was that I had no place asking this
question here. It is still my contention they are full of it. I got my
answer here. And I would ask the same question here. Nothing I have
seen has altered my opinion of this : this is a resource about the C
language and C programmers hang out here.

But why spend so many articles on this? If you're trying to compose
the perfect article which will logically persudade everyone to be of
your opinion, it won't happen - the more you explain your reasoning,
the more there is for someone to disagree with. You can't go back to
previous articles and say "_this_ is the key point where you were wrong,
now admit it and all will be fine".

I dont ask for any "admissions" : its clear that few will do that. All
I know is that there is a small minority clique here who like to jump
all over new posters at every opportnity mistakingly taking them for
usenet nooBs or new C programmers. They seem to love nothing more than
"OT take it to ...".

My problem is also that I have some time on my hands the last few days
:) I'll ignore things I dont agree with more from now on...
--
Remove evomer to reply

[David Resnick]

Richard G. Riley wrote:

On 2006-02-23, Arndt Jonasson <do********@invalid.net> wrote:

Maybe the question could be seen as proper to comp.lang.c since it is
connected with programming in C, but as I see it, the problem is that
many helpful answers wouldn't be. The answer might be "Yes, use
blubbglob.el from this elisp site" and then someone else wants to be
helpful and says "I use these modifications" and now we have elisp
code in comp.lang.c, which is decidedly off-topic. Then it would have
been better to ask the question in the forum where the whole
discussion would be on-topic.

Like which NG? My whole issue with "the usual suspects" who are now in
my killfile or I'm in theirs was that I had no place asking this
question here. It is still my contention they are full of it. I got my
answer here. And I would ask the same question here. Nothing I have
seen has altered my opinion of this : this is a resource about the C
language and C programmers hang out here.

So a guy who has never been there before walks into
services in his local temple and pulls out his
megaphone. He then shouts "I need someone to
explain the Sermon on the Mount to me?". A friendly
Rabbi comes over says "You've got the wrong place.
We don't study that here. There is a Christian
church across the way where there are people
who can explain it properly." The guy bellows
belligerently "Who are you to tell me what to say
and where to say it? This is like a church,
ain't it? You study religion, don't you? Somebody
here must know the answer. And I'm not leaving
until somebody tells me. And besides all religions
basically are the same and Christianity is just an
extension of Judaism and I don't care if you've
done it this way for 4000 years and I'll damn well
discuss it here if I want to!"

Yeah, analogy is slippery. And yes, the whole thing
has the flavor of a religious war, repeated endlessly,
perhaps why I used a religious analogy.

The initial answers to your message(by Ben Pfaff and
Keith Thompson) seemed perfectly appropriate to me. Even
CBFalconer's post seemed reasonable (he tends to be a
bit more abrasive IMHO). I think you over-reacted. I've seen you
post reasonably enough in other threads,
so you hardly seem like a troll to me.

I for one appreciate the group as it mostly is -- focused on
portable C as defined by the standard(s), and not diluted
by discussions of emacs, pthreads, GetProcAddress,
assembly language, C++ (it is at base "just like" C after all),
gdb, etc. I think that use of polite redirects to the
appropriate group to enforce that is a good thing. I think
harshly slapping down people for being off-topic is
counter-productive, as it leads to long pissing wars and
bitterness (e.g. Kenny).

-David

[Richard G. Riley]

On 2006-02-23, David Resnick <ln********@gmail.com> wrote:

Richard G. Riley wrote:

On 2006-02-23, Arndt Jonasson <do********@invalid.net> wrote:

>
> Maybe the question could be seen as proper to comp.lang.c since it is
> connected with programming in C, but as I see it, the problem is that
> many helpful answers wouldn't be. The answer might be "Yes, use
> blubbglob.el from this elisp site" and then someone else wants to be
> helpful and says "I use these modifications" and now we have elisp
> code in comp.lang.c, which is decidedly off-topic. Then it would have
> been better to ask the question in the forum where the whole
> discussion would be on-topic.

Like which NG? My whole issue with "the usual suspects" who are now in
my killfile or I'm in theirs was that I had no place asking this
question here. It is still my contention they are full of it. I got my
answer here. And I would ask the same question here. Nothing I have
seen has altered my opinion of this : this is a resource about the C
language and C programmers hang out here.

So a guy who has never been there before walks into
services in his local temple and pulls out his
megaphone. He then shouts "I need someone to
explain the Sermon on the Mount to me?".

There were no friendly rabbis in the thread in question : just some
nosey arses whose opinion, frankly, I wasnt interested in. Fortunately
there are a plethora of posters more interested in helping than
hindering. Some of whom are able to have a healthy debate without
resorting to big brother tactics.

And you make a lot of assumptions of where I have been and when. So as
far as I am concerned I'm not interested in your preachings. You can
join them

[David Resnick]

Richard G. Riley wrote:

On 2006-02-23, David Resnick <ln********@gmail.com> wrote:

Richard G. Riley wrote:

On 2006-02-23, Arndt Jonasson <do********@invalid.net> wrote:
>
> Maybe the question could be seen as proper to comp.lang.c since it is
> connected with programming in C, but as I see it, the problem is that
> many helpful answers wouldn't be. The answer might be "Yes, use
> blubbglob.el from this elisp site" and then someone else wants to be
> helpful and says "I use these modifications" and now we have elisp
> code in comp.lang.c, which is decidedly off-topic. Then it would have
> been better to ask the question in the forum where the whole
> discussion would be on-topic.

Like which NG? My whole issue with "the usual suspects" who are now in
my killfile or I'm in theirs was that I had no place asking this
question here. It is still my contention they are full of it. I got my
answer here. And I would ask the same question here. Nothing I have
seen has altered my opinion of this : this is a resource about the C
language and C programmers hang out here.

So a guy who has never been there before walks into
services in his local temple and pulls out his
megaphone. He then shouts "I need someone to
explain the Sermon on the Mount to me?".

There were no friendly rabbis in the thread in question : just some
nosey arses whose opinion, frankly, I wasnt interested in. Fortunately
there are a plethora of posters more interested in helping than
hindering. Some of whom are able to have a healthy debate without
resorting to big brother tactics.

And you make a lot of assumptions of where I have been and when. So as
far as I am concerned I'm not interested in your preachings. You can
join them

Re-read the thread. If you are at all self-honest, you will see that
the
initial responses:

"You'd be better off asking about this in an Emacs newsgroup. "
"That's not really a C question. Try gnu.emacs. "

Were polite, helpful, and reasonable. As I try to be generally.

But anyway, bye.

-David

[Flash Gordon]

Richard G. Riley wrote:

On 2006-02-23, David Resnick <ln********@gmail.com> wrote:

Richard G. Riley wrote:

On 2006-02-23, Arndt Jonasson <do********@invalid.net> wrote:
Maybe the question could be seen as proper to comp.lang.c since it is
connected with programming in C, but as I see it, the problem is that
many helpful answers wouldn't be. The answer might be "Yes, use
blubbglob.el from this elisp site" and then someone else wants to be
helpful and says "I use these modifications" and now we have elisp
code in comp.lang.c, which is decidedly off-topic. Then it would have
been better to ask the question in the forum where the whole
discussion would be on-topic.
Like which NG? My whole issue with "the usual suspects" who are now in
my killfile or I'm in theirs was that I had no place asking this
question here. It is still my contention they are full of it. I got my
answer here. And I would ask the same question here. Nothing I have
seen has altered my opinion of this : this is a resource about the C
language and C programmers hang out here. So a guy who has never been there before walks into
services in his local temple and pulls out his
megaphone. He then shouts "I need someone to
explain the Sermon on the Mount to me?".

There were no friendly rabbis in the thread in question : just some
nosey arses whose opinion, frankly, I wasnt interested in.

So a person to whome you respond, "I will, thanks. This being a C
programmers group though I didnt think it was too OT." is not friendly
but is in the group "just some nosey arses whose opinion, frankly, I
wasnt interested in."

Isn't Google wonderful for pointing out where people are talking
complete bollocks. So that I cant be accused of quoting out of context,
here is the entirety of the post by *you*:

| On 2006-02-19, Keith Thompson <[e-mail]> wrote:
| > "Richard G. Riley" <[e-mail]> writes:
| >> I am looking for a way to integrate the C library documentation
| into
| >> emacs' C mode. Adding any linux library documentation would be a
| >> bonus.
| >>
| >> e.g hilite word, hotkey to library documentation.
| >
| > That's not really a C question. Try gnu.emacs.
|
| I will, thanks. This being a C programmers group though I didnt think
| it was
| too OT.

When it was pointed out that had you lurked longer you would have seen
that this was the wrong group, you queried why this was the wrong group.
Reasons were pointed out and your position grandually changed from
asking why this is the wrong place to insisting this is the correct place.

Putting the best spin on it I can this makes you look like a stubborn
person who refuses to admit the possibility that *you* are wrong, and
the more people point out your error, and the more people who disagree
with you, the more strongly you entrench your position.

You upped the anti and started sounding more insulting by responding to
Vladimir with, "Oh ffs. Another member of this NGs self appoined mafioC."

Vladimire was very reasonable in his response IMHO and you responded
with, "Now you are advising on etiquette? You really are quite the
complete poster."

Then, in response to my first message in the group, you finished with:
| >> And that, for me, is the end of this ridiculous discussion
|
| > Yes, it is ridiculous that you won't accept that your question
| should
| > have been asked else where.
|
| It was : and I didnt get any info so I asked here. Now, I must try and
| not take the bait and put this on the "finished with" list.

Note that you have now switched from thanking someone for suggesting
another group to claiming that you asked there first and *then* came here.

This suggests that you either have a faulty memory (nothing to be
ashamed of, mine is atrocious), or you are trying to revise history to
make it support your point.
Fortunately
there are a plethora of posters more interested in helping than
hindering. Some of whom are able to have a healthy debate without
resorting to big brother tactics.

And you make a lot of assumptions of where I have been and when. So as
far as I am concerned I'm not interested in your preachings. You can
join them

Well, for this post I did not make any assumptions, nor did I rely on my
own highly fallible memory. Instead I reviewed the entire thread through
Google and could find only one post that had any support for you, but
even that post admitted there were problems with your original request.

The fact is that the only person who has been really impolite in this
thread is *you* using an abbreviation that everyone recognises as
including a swear word, calling the rest of us "blowhards" and so on.

Even those who do sometimes jump harder on people than we should (I've
been called on it before, and apologised publicly for it) have been more
restrained in our language than you.

Perhaps you should review the thread from the start and reconsider what
has happened.
--
Flash Gordon
Living in interesting times.
Web site - http://home.flash-gordon.me.uk/
comp.lang.c posting guidlines and intro -
http://clc-wiki.net/wiki/Intro_to_clc