By using this site, you agree to our updated Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Manage your Cookies Settings.
459,717 Members | 1,233 Online
Bytes IT Community
+ Ask a Question
Need help? Post your question and get tips & solutions from a community of 459,717 IT Pros & Developers. It's quick & easy.

MS Access forum

P: n/a
Does anyone know a good site where I can find a MS Access forum so I
can get additional info about dB design with Access.

Dec 15 '05 #1
Share this Question
Share on Google+
74 Replies


P: n/a
Not here. "Experts" to busy "Yelling" at each other and calling newbies
bad names. Maybe someday, but for now I recommend you look elsewhere...

dBNovice wrote:
Does anyone know a good site where I can find a MS Access forum so I
can get additional info about dB design with Access.

Dec 15 '05 #2

P: n/a

"mike noel" <mi*******@gci.net> wrote in message
news:43**************@gci.net...
Not here. "Experts" to busy "Yelling" at each other and calling newbies
bad names. Maybe someday, but for now I recommend you look elsewhere...

That's nonsense.


dBNovice wrote:
Does anyone know a good site where I can find a MS Access forum so I
can get additional info about dB design with Access.

This is an excellent resource for novices. You'll find a lot of very
helpful people here. Post your questions, you'll see.

--
Randy Harris
tech at promail dot com
I'm pretty sure I know everything that I can remember.
Dec 15 '05 #3

P: n/a
On 15 Dec 2005 14:28:52 -0800, dBNovice wrote:
Does anyone know a good site where I can find a MS Access forum so I
can get additional info about dB design with Access.


There is nothing wrong with asking here. You'll most likely get the
same high quality answers as you would get at any of the Microsoft
sponsored newsgroups which all begin with
Microsoft.Public.Access
Microsoft.Public.Access.Forms
Microsoft.Public.Access.TableDesign
etc.
If you have a newsreader, it is best to connect through that reader.
If you only have access through the web, go to www.microsoft.com and
click on links to Communities, then Newsgroups, then Office, finally
Access.
--
Fred
Please respond only to this newsgroup.
I do not reply to personal e-mail
Dec 15 '05 #4

P: n/a
Another reason is that shysters post incredible messages here about
their free utilities; while they are free, there is often a better one
that costs, of course!

Dec 15 '05 #5

P: n/a
It's not nonsense!

This responder and his friends are continually polluting the newsgroups with
their garbage.

A frequent responder here calls the whole bunch of them "losers".
--
PC Datasheet
Your Resource For Help With Access, Excel And Word Applications
Over 1050 users have come from the newsgroups trusting me and requesting
help.
re******@pcdatasheet.com

"Randy Harris" <ra***@SpamFree.com> wrote in message
news:Iw*******************@newssvr11.news.prodigy. com...

"mike noel" <mi*******@gci.net> wrote in message
news:43**************@gci.net...
Not here. "Experts" to busy "Yelling" at each other and calling newbies
bad names. Maybe someday, but for now I recommend you look elsewhere...

That's nonsense.


dBNovice wrote:
> Does anyone know a good site where I can find a MS Access forum so I
> can get additional info about dB design with Access.
>

This is an excellent resource for novices. You'll find a lot of very
helpful people here. Post your questions, you'll see.

--
Randy Harris
tech at promail dot com
I'm pretty sure I know everything that I can remember.

Dec 15 '05 #6

P: n/a
mike noel wrote:
calling newbies
bad names.
I don't recall seeing anything like that. Perhaps you can provide a
thread subject?
Maybe someday, but for now I recommend you look elsewhere...


For trying to steer a newbie away from a resource as good as cdma, I
suggest you need a good yelling at.
--
Tim http://www.ucs.mun.ca/~tmarshal/
^o<
/#) "Burp-beep, burp-beep, burp-beep?" - Quaker Jake
/^^ "Whatcha doin?" - Ditto "TIM-MAY!!" - Me
Dec 16 '05 #7

P: n/a
Just agreeing with fred, but would like to add, to dbNovice, that this
thread may well degenerate into another flamefest. If so, it has nothing to
do with you. It's just an ongoing battle between PC Datasheet and reality.

"fredg" <fg******@example.invalid> wrote in message
news:4b****************************@40tude.net...
On 15 Dec 2005 14:28:52 -0800, dBNovice wrote:
Does anyone know a good site where I can find a MS Access forum so I
can get additional info about dB design with Access.


There is nothing wrong with asking here. You'll most likely get the
same high quality answers as you would get at any of the Microsoft
sponsored newsgroups which all begin with
Microsoft.Public.Access
Microsoft.Public.Access.Forms
Microsoft.Public.Access.TableDesign
etc.
If you have a newsreader, it is best to connect through that reader.
If you only have access through the web, go to www.microsoft.com and
click on links to Communities, then Newsgroups, then Office, finally
Access.
--
Fred
Please respond only to this newsgroup.
I do not reply to personal e-mail

Dec 16 '05 #8

P: n/a

"Rob Oldfield" <bl**@blah.com> wrote in message
news:43***********************@news.zen.co.uk...
Just agreeing with fred, but would like to add, to dbNovice, that this
thread may well degenerate into another flamefest. If so, it has nothing to do with you. It's just an ongoing battle between PC Datasheet and reality.

I was hoping that might be avoided, that's why I did not respond to the post
from the troll.

--
Randy Harris
tech at promail dot com
I'm pretty sure I know everything that I can remember.

Dec 16 '05 #9

P: n/a
"PC Datasheet" <no****@nospam.spam> wrote in message
news:kb****************@newsread1.news.atl.earthli nk.net...
This responder and his friends are continually polluting the newsgroups
with their garbage.
So you admit to polluting the newsgroups?
A frequent responder here calls the whole bunch of them "losers".


Yourself?

John... Visio MVP
Dec 16 '05 #10

P: n/a
This is another one of the bunch polluting the newsgroups with their garbage
that the frequent responder to the newsgroups called "losers". There are
still s few more out there. We'll see how long it takes for all of them to
congrgate here.
--
PC Datasheet
Your Resource For Help With Access, Excel And Word Applications
Over 1050 users have come from the newsgroups trusting me and requesting
help.
re******@pcdatasheet.com
"John Marshall, MVP" <la******@stonehenge.ca> wrote in message
news:Ve********************@magma.ca...
"PC Datasheet" <no****@nospam.spam> wrote in message
news:kb****************@newsread1.news.atl.earthli nk.net...
This responder and his friends are continually polluting the newsgroups
with their garbage.


So you admit to polluting the newsgroups?
A frequent responder here calls the whole bunch of them "losers".


Yourself?

John... Visio MVP

Dec 16 '05 #11

P: n/a
Tim,

You're chastising Mike for telling the truth but you ignore the rampant
pollution of the newsgroups by Arno R and his bunch of losers. Start yelling
where yelling is needed. If you and others yelled at those losers Mike would
not be making his observation. Leave Mike alone for telling the truth!!
--
PC Datasheet
Your Resource For Help With Access, Excel And Word Applications
Over 1050 users have come from the newsgroups trusting me and requesting
help.
re******@pcdatasheet.com


"Tim Marshall" <TI****@PurplePandaChasers.Moertherium> wrote in message
news:dn**********@coranto.ucs.mun.ca...
mike noel wrote:
calling newbies bad names.


I don't recall seeing anything like that. Perhaps you can provide a
thread subject?
Maybe someday, but for now I recommend you look elsewhere...


For trying to steer a newbie away from a resource as good as cdma, I
suggest you need a good yelling at.
--
Tim http://www.ucs.mun.ca/~tmarshal/
^o<
/#) "Burp-beep, burp-beep, burp-beep?" - Quaker Jake
/^^ "Whatcha doin?" - Ditto "TIM-MAY!!" - Me

Dec 16 '05 #12

P: n/a
Here's another one of the bunch of losers!
--
PC Datasheet
Your Resource For Help With Access, Excel And Word Applications
Over 1050 users have come from the newsgroups trusting me and requesting
help.
re******@pcdatasheet.com
"Rob Oldfield" <bl**@blah.com> wrote in message
news:43***********************@news.zen.co.uk...
Just agreeing with fred, but would like to add, to dbNovice, that this
thread may well degenerate into another flamefest. If so, it has nothing
to
do with you. It's just an ongoing battle between PC Datasheet and
reality.

"fredg" <fg******@example.invalid> wrote in message
news:4b****************************@40tude.net...
On 15 Dec 2005 14:28:52 -0800, dBNovice wrote:
> Does anyone know a good site where I can find a MS Access forum so I
> can get additional info about dB design with Access.


There is nothing wrong with asking here. You'll most likely get the
same high quality answers as you would get at any of the Microsoft
sponsored newsgroups which all begin with
Microsoft.Public.Access
Microsoft.Public.Access.Forms
Microsoft.Public.Access.TableDesign
etc.
If you have a newsreader, it is best to connect through that reader.
If you only have access through the web, go to www.microsoft.com and
click on links to Communities, then Newsgroups, then Office, finally
Access.
--
Fred
Please respond only to this newsgroup.
I do not reply to personal e-mail


Dec 16 '05 #13

P: n/a
Notice how the losers come in pairs!!
--
PC Datasheet
Your Resource For Help With Access, Excel And Word Applications
Over 1050 users have come from the newsgroups trusting me and requesting
help.
re******@pcdatasheet.com
"Randy Harris" <ra***@SpamFree.com> wrote in message
news:wP*******************@newssvr11.news.prodigy. com...

"Rob Oldfield" <bl**@blah.com> wrote in message
news:43***********************@news.zen.co.uk...
Just agreeing with fred, but would like to add, to dbNovice, that this
thread may well degenerate into another flamefest. If so, it has nothing

to
do with you. It's just an ongoing battle between PC Datasheet and

reality.

I was hoping that might be avoided, that's why I did not respond to the
post
from the troll.

--
Randy Harris
tech at promail dot com
I'm pretty sure I know everything that I can remember.

Dec 16 '05 #14

P: n/a
Just can't help but ask - do you post references you these tirades on
your website, so prospective clients can see what you're *really* like?
Not that what I say will make any difference whatsoever, but don't you
think provoking people and then responding to their attacks is a waste
of time? I mean, don't you have something better to do?

Dec 16 '05 #15

P: n/a
I apologize for accidentally replying to the newsgroup instead of to you
directly. I don't make a habit of involving myself in the muck you may
be observing. And while the group is pretty polluted it does have some
really knowledgeable people and you may be able to get some help there.
But you're most likely to get help with really specific questions. Broad
questions like "how to design a database with Access" are not likely to
get you much more than cat calls and vendor come-ons.

My advice would be to go to a used book store and by spend $5 for access
2000 course (like the Shelly Cashman series one I found a few years ago)
then spend a few solid days just "doing" the book. Finish that and
you'll be ready to do your own "design" and you'll be asking the kind of
specific questions on the forum than might get you good answers.

Good Luck!
dBNovice wrote:
Does anyone know a good site where I can find a MS Access forum so I
can get additional info about dB design with Access.

Dec 16 '05 #16

P: n/a
dBNovice wrote:
Does anyone know a good site where I can find a MS Access forum so I
can get additional info about dB design with Access.


There is information here in this group that was learned through years of experience that
would be very difficult to find elsewhere. However, sometimes the noise/signal ratio is a
bit high.

Check out UtterAccess. Friendly and helpful folks there.

http://www.utteraccess.com

--
'---------------
'John Mishefske
'---------------
Dec 16 '05 #17

P: n/a
You should be able to find one or two things here:

http://home.bendbroadband.com/conrad...resources.html

--
Jeff Conrad
Access Junkie - MVP
http://home.bendbroadband.com/conrad...essjunkie.html
http://www.access.qbuilt.com/html/articles.html

"dBNovice" wrote in message:
news:11*********************@o13g2000cwo.googlegro ups.com...
Does anyone know a good site where I can find a MS Access forum so I
can get additional info about dB design with Access.


----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----
Dec 16 '05 #18

P: n/a
"PC Datasheet" <no****@nospam.spam> wrote in message
news:OQ*****************@newsread3.news.atl.earthl ink.net...
Tim,

You're chastising Mike for telling the truth but you ignore the rampant
pollution of the newsgroups by Arno R and his bunch of losers. Start
yelling where yelling is needed. If you and others yelled at those losers
Mike would not be making his observation. Leave Mike alone for telling the
truth!!

Are the "class acts" who came out against you now "losers" Steve? You can't
ignore this question for ever. Answer it now.
Dec 16 '05 #19

P: n/a
"dBNovice" <lu*****@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:11*********************@o13g2000cwo.googlegro ups.com...
Does anyone know a good site where I can find a MS Access forum so I
can get additional info about dB design with Access.

A db novice but not a flame-bait novice I see.
Dec 16 '05 #20

P: n/a
"PC Datasheet" <no****@nospam.spam> wrote in message
news:IR*****************@newsread3.news.atl.earthl ink.net...
Here's another one of the bunch of losers!

How do you have time to do all the work for your thousands of clients when
you're continually trying to defend yourself on here? I put it to you that
you have very little work, are struggling with large debts and try to drum
up business here to mitigate your position. Why else would you be so bad
tempered all the time?
Dec 16 '05 #21

P: n/a
PC Datasheet wrote:
You're chastising Mike for telling the truth
No, I'm chastizing him for trying to chase away a newbie. Rather like
standing at the edge of an oasis and telling a traveller looking for
water there's none there. Contrary and nasty minded, actually.
but you ignore the rampant
pollution of the newsgroups by Arno R and his bunch of losers.
The only "pollution" they are causing is protesting what they see as
your abuse of the group. Assuming they don't know you personally and
you are not a cruel person who killed their puppies when they were
children, don't you think it interesting they focus their energy on you?
Why would that be? Why would total strangers pick you out of all of us?
not be making his observation. Leave Mike alone for telling the truth!!


I think you should leave Arno et al alone for telling the truth.

You just don't seem to get it and it appears to me that you are soaking
all this in and basking in it.

I'll leave you to howl in the darkness.
--
Tim http://www.ucs.mun.ca/~tmarshal/
^o<
/#) "Burp-beep, burp-beep, burp-beep?" - Quaker Jake
/^^ "Whatcha doin?" - Ditto "TIM-MAY!!" - Me
Dec 16 '05 #22

P: n/a

"Tim Marshall" <TI****@PurplePandaChasers.Moertherium> schreef in bericht news:dn**********@coranto.ucs.mun.ca...
You just don't seem to get it and it appears to me that you are soaking
all this in and basking in it.
IMO this is a good observation Tim. It seems that Steve kind of enjoys all this??
Every time things seem to have cooled down a bit Steve is the one who 'activates' the fire.
It appears to me that he is very destructive at the moment. He thinks he will gain by doing this??
I'll leave you to howl in the darkness.


Indeed it seems best to totally IGNORE him I guess.
I see no point in arguing with him. He simply does not want to understand.

Arno R
Dec 16 '05 #23

P: n/a

"Keith W" <he**@there.com> wrote in message
news:43**********@glkas0286.greenlnk.net...
"dBNovice" <lu*****@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:11*********************@o13g2000cwo.googlegro ups.com...
Does anyone know a good site where I can find a MS Access forum so I
can get additional info about dB design with Access.

A db novice but not a flame-bait novice I see.


Hmmm.... Good observation. I suspect you might be right.

Dec 16 '05 #24

P: n/a
"Randy Harris" <ra***@SpamFree.com> wrote in
news:wP*******************@newssvr11.news.prodigy. com:
"Rob Oldfield" <bl**@blah.com> wrote in message
news:43***********************@news.zen.co.uk...
Just agreeing with fred, but would like to add, to dbNovice, that
this thread may well degenerate into another flamefest. If so,
it has nothing

to
do with you. It's just an ongoing battle between PC Datasheet
and

reality.

I was hoping that might be avoided, that's why I did not respond
to the post from the troll.


If you two didn't discuss the subject, those of us who have Steve
killfiled wouldn't know about it at all.

Hint, hint.

You can't put out a fire by pouring gasoline on it.

--
David W. Fenton http://www.dfenton.com/
usenet at dfenton dot com http://www.dfenton.com/DFA/
Dec 16 '05 #25

P: n/a
mike noel <mi*******@gci.net> wrote in
news:43**************@gci.net:
Broad
questions like "how to design a database with Access" are not
likely to get you much more than cat calls and vendor come-ons.


I consider that a *good* thing.

Why would criticism of such a poorly-framed question not be the
correct response?

--
David W. Fenton http://www.dfenton.com/
usenet at dfenton dot com http://www.dfenton.com/DFA/
Dec 16 '05 #26

P: n/a
Tim Marshall <TI****@PurplePandaChasers.Moertherium> wrote in
news:dn**********@coranto.ucs.mun.ca:

[nothing at all worth reading]

If this kind of thing happens again, you're going in my kilfile
along with Steve.

--
David W. Fenton http://www.dfenton.com/
usenet at dfenton dot com http://www.dfenton.com/DFA/
Dec 16 '05 #27

P: n/a
"Keith W" <he**@there.com> wrote in
news:43********@glkas0286.greenlnk.net:

[nothing worth reading]

If this kind of thread occurs again, with you stirring up sh*t were
there's no justification for doing so, then you'll end up in my
killfile along with Steve.

--
David W. Fenton http://www.dfenton.com/
usenet at dfenton dot com http://www.dfenton.com/DFA/
Dec 16 '05 #28

P: n/a

"David W. Fenton" <XX*******@dfenton.com.invalid> schreef in bericht news:Xn**********************************@127.0.0. 1...

If this kind of thing happens again, you're going in my kilfile
along with Steve.

In fact it is not worth reading but ...
Maybe if David continues to threathen people here who post something he does not like, people might start to beg him to be killfiled ...

Arno R
Dec 16 '05 #29

P: n/a
Believing as I do in the adage "if the foo sh*ts wear it" I expect your
"shyster" reference is to me and my free utility at
http://home.gci.net/~mike-noel/CompareEM - if not, please ignore this,
otherwise I have to wonder - what the h*ll's wrong with FREE????

Cause if there is something wrong I'd like to fix it.

FREE doesn't mean bad, and the fact that I also offer an enhanced
version (which I do not promote here and have never before even
mentioned in a post on this forum) does not detract from the value of
what I am giving away.

Why are you calling me a shyster? Am I being extremely wrong headed
here??????????????????
Lyle Fairfield wrote:
Another reason is that shysters post incredible messages here about
their free utilities; while they are free, there is often a better one
that costs, of course!

Dec 17 '05 #30

P: n/a
David W. Fenton wrote:
If this kind of thing happens again, you're going in my kilfile
along with Steve.


Eh? I'm not sure I understand. Are you saying it's OK for a poster to
go chasing off newbies?

I understand your frustration over this whole business of which this
thread seems to be a spin off from the PCD debates. Perhaps it's the
stress of the season getting to too many of us. I've spent more time
the past couple of weeks participating in non-Access debates than is good.
--
Tim http://www.ucs.mun.ca/~tmarshal/
^o<
/#) "Burp-beep, burp-beep, burp-beep?" - Quaker Jake
/^^ "Whatcha doin?" - Ditto "TIM-MAY!!" - Me
Dec 17 '05 #31

P: n/a
"David W. Fenton" <XX*******@dfenton.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:Xn**********************************@127.0.0. 1...
"Randy Harris" <ra***@SpamFree.com> wrote in
news:wP*******************@newssvr11.news.prodigy. com:
"Rob Oldfield" <bl**@blah.com> wrote in message
news:43***********************@news.zen.co.uk...
Just agreeing with fred, but would like to add, to dbNovice, that
this thread may well degenerate into another flamefest. If so,
it has nothing

to
do with you. It's just an ongoing battle between PC Datasheet
and

reality.

I was hoping that might be avoided, that's why I did not respond
to the post from the troll.


If you two didn't discuss the subject, those of us who have Steve
killfiled wouldn't know about it at all.


True. But it would also leave Steve free to abuse the newsgroups with no
intervention. Both ways have their good and bad points, but I prefer not to
just sit on the sidelines and ignore the fact that it's happening.
Dec 17 '05 #32

P: n/a
Which of course is the reason I replied to him as I initially did. If a
newbie is just gonna get slammed when he asks a newbie question
shouldn't we send him somewhere where he'll get a better reception, or
failing that, at least warn him what he faces here?

David W. Fenton wrote:
mike noel <mi*******@gci.net> wrote in
news:43**************@gci.net:

Broad
questions like "how to design a database with Access" are not
likely to get you much more than cat calls and vendor come-ons.

I consider that a *good* thing.

Why would criticism of such a poorly-framed question not be the
correct response?

Dec 17 '05 #33

P: n/a
David W. Fenton wrote:
"Keith W" <he**@there.com> wrote in
news:43********@glkas0286.greenlnk.net:

[nothing worth reading]

If this kind of thread occurs again, with you stirring up sh*t were
there's no justification for doing so, then you'll end up in my
killfile along with Steve.


And that would affect me how? What I wrote I believe to be true, the
profile fits perfectly. The guy is desperate to claw in money from
whatever unscrupulous methods he sees fit.
Dec 17 '05 #34

P: n/a
Keith wrote:
David W. Fenton wrote:
If this kind of thread occurs again, with you stirring up sh*t were
there's no justification for doing so, then you'll end up in my
killfile along with Steve.
And that would affect me how?


May we guess?

My guesses are:

Improved blood pressure readings;
The same as a small glass of Dry Sack before bedtime;
A greater appreciation of beautiful sunrises;
A significant other saying, "You've been sooooooo sweet lately; you're
going to get a special reward tonight!".

Dec 17 '05 #35

P: n/a
Lyle Fairfield wrote:
Keith wrote:
And that would affect me how?

May we guess?

My guesses are:

Improved blood pressure readings;
The same as a small glass of Dry Sack before bedtime;
A greater appreciation of beautiful sunrises;
A significant other saying, "You've been sooooooo sweet lately; you're
going to get a special reward tonight!".

I wish! :o)
Dec 17 '05 #36

P: n/a
"Rob Oldfield" <bl**@blah.com> wrote in
news:43***********************@news.zen.co.uk:
"David W. Fenton" <XX*******@dfenton.com.invalid> wrote in message

If you two didn't discuss the subject, those of us who have Steve
killfiled wouldn't know about it at all.


True. But it would also leave Steve free to abuse the newsgroups
with no intervention. Both ways have their good and bad points,
but I prefer not to just sit on the sidelines and ignore the fact
that it's happening.


Right now, your posts stirring the pot are much more of an annoyance
to me than Steve's advertising, which I never noticed in the first
place, and which I now don't see at all because I"ve killfiled him
entirely.

Grow up.

Steve is not forcing you to read his posts.

And one advertiser will not lead to an influx of spam. Steve has
been posting this way for months now and there has been no upsurge
in advertising in the newsgroup.

Indeed, it is almost irrefutable that 99% of the advertising in the
newsgroup is drive-by spam, posted by people who are not
participants in the newsgroup. Steve is the only regular poster who
advertises, against the policy of the newsgroup.

I suspect that were a newbie to arrive with an ad in his sig,
someone would point him to the FAQ and advise him not to advertise.
99% of those people would likely delete the advertising. The other
1% might say "well, Steve does it" and you could point them to
Google to see the massive dispute over Steve's advertising and show
the newbie that it's a bad thing.

Problem solved, and there's no need to continue stirring the pot.

Last of all, in *this* thread, Steve was *not* involved until you
and your compatriots gratuitously introduced him into the thread.
It's one thing to respond to Steve when he offends, it's entirely
another to make a thread about Steve when he hasn't been
participating in it. This latter is unconscionable in my opinion.

--
David W. Fenton http://www.dfenton.com/
usenet at dfenton dot com http://www.dfenton.com/DFA/
Dec 17 '05 #37

P: n/a
mike noel <mi*******@gci.net> wrote in
news:43**************@gci.net:
David W. Fenton wrote:
mike noel <mi*******@gci.net> wrote in
news:43**************@gci.net:
Broad
questions like "how to design a database with Access" are not
likely to get you much more than cat calls and vendor come-ons.


I consider that a *good* thing.

Why would criticism of such a poorly-framed question not be the
correct response?


Which of course is the reason I replied to him as I initially did.
If a newbie is just gonna get slammed when he asks a newbie
question shouldn't we send him somewhere where he'll get a better
reception, or failing that, at least warn him what he faces here?


Eh?

A newbie is not going to get "slammed" in any event. If his question
is badly worded or confusing, people will likely try to answer it as
best they can and suggest that more detail is needed.

This is what happens *all the time* in this newsgroup. A perfect
recent example of this is the thread "Loosing Db connection?!?!?!"
where it was not at all clear what was going on from the context.
Some people criticized the code (which is not the same thing as
attacking the poster), others attempted to answer, but most
criticized the framing of the question. I don't know if the OP got a
working resolution or not, but it was not for wont of trying.

--
David W. Fenton http://www.dfenton.com/
usenet at dfenton dot com http://www.dfenton.com/DFA/
Dec 17 '05 #38

P: n/a
Tim Marshall <TI****@PurplePandaChasers.Moertherium> wrote in
news:dn**********@coranto.ucs.mun.ca:
David W. Fenton wrote:
If this kind of thing happens again, you're going in my kilfile
along with Steve.


Eh? I'm not sure I understand. Are you saying it's OK for a
poster to go chasing off newbies?

I understand your frustration over this whole business of which
this thread seems to be a spin off from the PCD debates. Perhaps
it's the stress of the season getting to too many of us. I've
spent more time the past couple of weeks participating in
non-Access debates than is good.


Well, then -- STOP.

You can't control Steve, but you *can* control yourself.

Please, for everyone's benefit -- DO SO.

--
David W. Fenton http://www.dfenton.com/
usenet at dfenton dot com http://www.dfenton.com/DFA/
Dec 17 '05 #39

P: n/a
Keith <he**@there.com> wrote in
news:do**********@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com:
David W. Fenton wrote:
"Keith W" <he**@there.com> wrote in
news:43********@glkas0286.greenlnk.net:

[nothing worth reading]

If this kind of thread occurs again, with you stirring up sh*t
were there's no justification for doing so, then you'll end up in
my killfile along with Steve.


And that would affect me how? What I wrote I believe to be true,
the profile fits perfectly. The guy is desperate to claw in money
from whatever unscrupulous methods he sees fit.


Well, I'm one of a group of regular posters who contributes a lot of
replies to the group. I think some percentage of my replies are
worthwhile (though certainly not all of them, of course). If you're
in my killfile, I won't be answering helping with any problems you
might post.

Of course, except for the subject of PC Datasheet, I don't recognize
you as someone who contributes to the newsgroup at all, either in
asking questions or in answering them, so perhaps it would be no
loss to have me (or anyone else) killfile you.

But if I'm contemplating killfiling you, it may very well be that
some large number of newsgroup participants who could potentially
help you with your Access problems have concluded that you're not
worth reading, and has already killfiled you.

To me, this dispute looks like the Vietnam-era "burning down the
village to save it." By attempting to "save" CDMA by going after
Steve, you're introducing a huge amount of noise that is more
disruptive of overall newsgroup traffic than the offense you are
trying to combat.

Here's a free clue:

Steve is not going to change.

Get used to.

Killfile him and get on with your life.

--
David W. Fenton http://www.dfenton.com/
usenet at dfenton dot com http://www.dfenton.com/DFA/
Dec 17 '05 #40

P: n/a
mike noel <mi*******@gci.net> wrote in
news:43**************@gci.net:
Believing as I do in the adage "if the foo sh*ts wear it" I expect
your "shyster" reference is to me and my free utility at
http://home.gci.net/~mike-noel/CompareEM - if not, please ignore
this, otherwise I have to wonder - what the h*ll's wrong with
FREE????

Cause if there is something wrong I'd like to fix it.


How long since you've updated it? Lyle has the opinion that old code
that works fine somehow "rusts" and should be replaced with new
code.

Or, at least, that's what he's implied by criticizing working
solutions posted here that use techniques that have worked in Access
and VB for nearly 10 years.

--
David W. Fenton http://www.dfenton.com/
usenet at dfenton dot com http://www.dfenton.com/DFA/
Dec 17 '05 #41

P: n/a
It's gratifying to know that you know my opinion, even before I do,
David. May I suggest that we use the acronym ILO for In Lyle's Opinion
so that anyone else who is so gifted can make my opinion known easily?

Dec 17 '05 #42

P: n/a

"David W. Fenton" <XX*******@dfenton.com.invalid> schreef in bericht news:Xn**********************************@127.0.0. 1...
Right now, your posts stirring the pot are much more of an annoyance
to me than Steve's advertising, which I never noticed in the first
place
Yes you were totally blind indeed.
I suspect that were a newbie to arrive with an ad in his sig,
someone would point him to the FAQ and advise him not to advertise.
99% of those people would likely delete the advertising. The other
1% might say "well, Steve does it" and you could point them to
Google to see the massive dispute over Steve's advertising and show
the newbie that it's a bad thing.

Problem solved, and there's no need to continue stirring the pot.
No need for your posts indeed. In this thread alone I count 9! posts from you only...
and not much you say here is worth reading...
Last of all, in *this* thread, Steve was *not* involved until you
and your compatriots gratuitously introduced him into the thread.
This is *not true at all*.
Obviously you have still problems with your eyes, and/or you are not reading the full thread.
It's one thing to respond to Steve when he offends, it's entirely
another to make a thread about Steve when he hasn't been
participating in it. This latter is unconscionable in my opinion.


Your interfering here is 'stirring the pot'.
But since you killfiled me you won't see this message. Others will I hope.

Arno R

Dec 17 '05 #43

P: n/a

"mike noel" <mi*******@gci.net> wrote in message
news:43**************@gci.net...
Which of course is the reason I replied to him as I initially did. If a
newbie is just gonna get slammed when he asks a newbie question
shouldn't we send him somewhere where he'll get a better reception, or
failing that, at least warn him what he faces here?

David W. Fenton wrote:
mike noel <mi*******@gci.net> wrote in
news:43**************@gci.net:

Broad
questions like "how to design a database with Access" are not
likely to get you much more than cat calls and vendor come-ons.

I consider that a *good* thing.

Why would criticism of such a poorly-framed question not be the
correct response?

IMO - this entire thread was launched by a rather effectively crafted wind
up. There never was a question asked.

To the best of my recollection, CDMA has *never* been a place where newbies
have been slammed. The proposed reply above, "Broad questions..." would be
appropriate for such a poorly stated question, but I can't see how that
could be termed slamming. That was not, however, the tenor of Mike's
initial reply in this thread. Warning away a newbie from CDMA with a threat
of "calling newbies bad names" is not accurate, nor helpful for the newbie.

--
Randy Harris
tech at promail dot com
I'm pretty sure I know everything that I can remember.
Dec 17 '05 #44

P: n/a
"Arno R" <ar***********@tiscali.nl> wrote in message
news:43***********************@text.nova.planet.nl ...

"David W. Fenton" <XX*******@dfenton.com.invalid> schreef in bericht
news:Xn**********************************@127.0.0. 1...

Last of all, in *this* thread, Steve was *not* involved until you
and your compatriots gratuitously introduced him into the thread.
This is *not true at all*.
Obviously you have still problems with your eyes, and/or you are not

reading the full thread.

David,

Arno is absolutely right on this point. Perhaps you missed it because of
having killfiled Steve. There had been no mention whatever of pcdatasheet
or Steve in this thread until he chose to post his "loser" messages.

--
Randy Harris
tech at promail dot com
I'm pretty sure I know everything that I can remember.

Dec 17 '05 #45

P: n/a
"David W. Fenton" <XX*******@dfenton.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:Xn**********************************@127.0.0. 1...
"Rob Oldfield" <bl**@blah.com> wrote in
news:43***********************@news.zen.co.uk:
"David W. Fenton" <XX*******@dfenton.com.invalid> wrote in message
If you two didn't discuss the subject, those of us who have Steve
killfiled wouldn't know about it at all.


True. But it would also leave Steve free to abuse the newsgroups
with no intervention. Both ways have their good and bad points,
but I prefer not to just sit on the sidelines and ignore the fact
that it's happening.


Right now, your posts stirring the pot are much more of an annoyance
to me than Steve's advertising, which I never noticed in the first
place, and which I now don't see at all because I"ve killfiled him
entirely.

Grow up.


There's a problem. I'm choosing not to ignore it, you are. Each approach
has its place. I would however suggest that the 'ignore it' line is the one
which smacks more of a lack of maturity.

Steve is not forcing you to read his posts.

And one advertiser will not lead to an influx of spam. Steve has
been posting this way for months now and there has been no upsurge
in advertising in the newsgroup.

Indeed, it is almost irrefutable that 99% of the advertising in the
newsgroup is drive-by spam, posted by people who are not
participants in the newsgroup. Steve is the only regular poster who
advertises, against the policy of the newsgroup.

I suspect that were a newbie to arrive with an ad in his sig,
someone would point him to the FAQ and advise him not to advertise.
99% of those people would likely delete the advertising. The other
1% might say "well, Steve does it" and you could point them to
Google to see the massive dispute over Steve's advertising and show
the newbie that it's a bad thing.

Problem solved, and there's no need to continue stirring the pot.
I think you're misunderstanding the problem, or at least what you think I
think it is. The problem is Steve. Nothing else.

Last of all, in *this* thread, Steve was *not* involved until you
and your compatriots gratuitously introduced him into the thread.
It's one thing to respond to Steve when he offends, it's entirely
another to make a thread about Steve when he hasn't been
participating in it. This latter is unconscionable in my opinion.


I don't have any 'compatriots' on this issue. I have my opinion and what I
do is due to that opinion. I'd say that your general idea in this paragraph
is correct, and it's something that I would avoid doing. You may want to
recheck the thread before you start blaming me for it.

But getting into flames between those who ignore Steve, and those who oppose
him by posting is a little pointless I think. Should we just agree to
disagree on this one?

Dec 17 '05 #46

P: n/a
Free is good.

In Canada

Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms:

a) freedom of conscience and religion;
b) freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including
freedom of the press and other media of communication;
c) freedom of peaceful assembly; and
d) freedom of association.

I choose to exercise my right to these freedoms.

On the other hand, when we post in CDMA we agree, or implicitly agree
to be bound by its charter. It states

The following are specifically forbidden in the CDMA newsgroup:

* Advertising of any kind, even if the product is free, a demo, or
otherwise. You may answer a question with a link to a commercial site
which pertains to the question. You may also add a phrase and/or link
in your signature.
....

The problem with this rule is that there is no mechanism to help us
decide if a commercial site pertains to a question.
Since my site is about Access and all posts here should be about Access
then, I suppose, I could argue that I could answer them all with a link
to my site.

I do not like sites which invite one to visit for a free utility and
also advertise a more advanced one which is not free. It reminds me of
"bait and switch" tactics.

And I do not like someone who has contributed almost nothing to CDMA
and who denigrates it. I do not like someone who e-mails implied
threats to me. In other words, I do not like you.

Is "shyster" too strong a word to describe someone who posts a link to
his/her own site to answer questions which may or may not clearly
pertain to the question? Is it too strong a word for someone who has
posted here only a few times, has answered almost no technical
questions (or none at all) and who has mentioned his free utility in
the majority of his posts?
I don't know. I do know that it reflects my opinion.

Dec 18 '05 #47

P: n/a
David W. Fenton wrote:
Keith <he**@there.com> wrote in
news:do**********@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com:
And that would affect me how? What I wrote I believe to be true,
the profile fits perfectly. The guy is desperate to claw in money
from whatever unscrupulous methods he sees fit.

Well, I'm one of a group of regular posters who contributes a lot of
replies to the group. I think some percentage of my replies are
worthwhile (though certainly not all of them, of course).


You have indeed helped me in the past for which I am grateful.
If you're
in my killfile, I won't be answering helping with any problems you
might post.
There's always someone else David.

Of course, except for the subject of PC Datasheet, I don't recognize
you as someone who contributes to the newsgroup at all, either in
asking questions or in answering them, so perhaps it would be no
loss to have me (or anyone else) killfile you.
I have been a regular poster for 7 years, both in questions and answers,
as a simple search of several of the Access groups (not just this one)
will reveal. At least two MVPs have links to my Security example on
their web sites.

But if I'm contemplating killfiling you, it may very well be that
some large number of newsgroup participants who could potentially
help you with your Access problems have concluded that you're not
worth reading, and has already killfiled you.
I answer more questions than I ask. It's their prerogative to KF anyone
they like but it may also be their loss.

To me, this dispute looks like the Vietnam-era "burning down the
village to save it." By attempting to "save" CDMA by going after
Steve, you're introducing a huge amount of noise that is more
disruptive of overall newsgroup traffic than the offense you are
trying to combat.
But it will hopefully put off other would-be offenders. I'd hate to see
this useful recourse lost in spam.

Here's a free clue:
Please don't patronise me David, I don't need it.
Steve is not going to change.
That's rather defeatist, enough complaints to his ISP will ensure he does.

Get used to.

Killfile him and get on with your life.

This issue takes up very little of my time I'm happy to report.
Dec 18 '05 #48

P: n/a
"Rob Oldfield" <bl**@blah.com> wrote in
news:43***********************@news.zen.co.uk:
"David W. Fenton" <XX*******@dfenton.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:Xn**********************************@127.0.0. 1...
"Rob Oldfield" <bl**@blah.com> wrote in
news:43***********************@news.zen.co.uk:
> "David W. Fenton" <XX*******@dfenton.com.invalid> wrote in
> message
>> If you two didn't discuss the subject, those of us who have
>> Steve killfiled wouldn't know about it at all.
>
> True. But it would also leave Steve free to abuse the
> newsgroups with no intervention. Both ways have their good and
> bad points, but I prefer not to just sit on the sidelines and
> ignore the fact that it's happening.


Right now, your posts stirring the pot are much more of an
annoyance to me than Steve's advertising, which I never noticed
in the first place, and which I now don't see at all because I"ve
killfiled him entirely.

Grow up.


There's a problem. I'm choosing not to ignore it, you are. . . .


Well, ignoring it is not going to solve the problem, but the form of
"not ignoring it" that you and your compatriots are indulging in is
not going to solve the problem either, so I see nothing at all
superior about your approach to the problem.
. . . Each approach
has its place. I would however suggest that the 'ignore it' line
is the one which smacks more of a lack of maturity.
Killfiling Steve will mean you don't have to read his posts. You
won't raise your blood pressure doing so. You won't see them so you
won't spend your time responding to them (and raising your blood
pressure further). Since you're not responding, then the newsgroup
remains free of the clutter of these meta-threads.

And my knowledge of human nature and observation of the history of
this newsgroup suggests to me that nothing bad is going to happen
from ignoring Steve's messages. It's not going to result in an
influx of spam, nor an influx of new posters with advertising in
their sigs (any poster who advertises will be told its not
permitted, and since the vast majority of such posters will be
people of good will, they will stop).
Steve is not forcing you to read his posts.

And one advertiser will not lead to an influx of spam. Steve has
been posting this way for months now and there has been no
upsurge in advertising in the newsgroup.

Indeed, it is almost irrefutable that 99% of the advertising in
the newsgroup is drive-by spam, posted by people who are not
participants in the newsgroup. Steve is the only regular poster
who advertises, against the policy of the newsgroup.

I suspect that were a newbie to arrive with an ad in his sig,
someone would point him to the FAQ and advise him not to
advertise. 99% of those people would likely delete the
advertising. The other 1% might say "well, Steve does it" and you
could point them to Google to see the massive dispute over
Steve's advertising and show the newbie that it's a bad thing.

Problem solved, and there's no need to continue stirring the pot.


I think you're misunderstanding the problem, or at least what you
think I think it is. The problem is Steve. Nothing else.


And short of shooting Steve dead, you're not going to solve the
problem.

Indeed, Steve has dug in his heels and is more resistent to
criticism and much more combative than he was at the beginning of
the discussion.

It's an old story in human history and on Usenet: you criticize
someone for their behavior and instead of taking the behavior to
heart, they dig in their heels and defend their actions (however
indefensible those may be). The more they are criticized, the more
then refuse to relent.

If you stop pushing, it gives these people the opportunity to
relent.

And, of course, the pushing is never going to accomplish the stated
goal, anyway, so it's just a massive waste of everyone's time.
Last of all, in *this* thread, Steve was *not* involved . . .
This is something I realized only later was untrue. I didn't see
Steve's post because he was killfiled. Hint, hint.
. . . until you
and your compatriots gratuitously introduced him into the thread.
It's one thing to respond to Steve when he offends, it's entirely
another to make a thread about Steve when he hasn't been
participating in it. This latter is unconscionable in my opinion.


I don't have any 'compatriots' on this issue. . . .


Keith and Randy, in this particular thread.
. . . I have my opinion and what I
do is due to that opinion. I'd say that your general idea in this
paragraph is correct, and it's something that I would avoid doing.
You may want to recheck the thread before you start blaming me
for it.
As I said above, I realized after posting that I was in error -- I
was blissfully unaware of Steve's provocation.

I like remaining that way, and don't quite understand the enthusiasm
for maintaining the crusade against him.
But getting into flames between those who ignore Steve, and those
who oppose him by posting is a little pointless I think. Should
we just agree to disagree on this one?


Get a life.

Killfile him and be done with it.

--
David W. Fenton http://www.dfenton.com/
usenet at dfenton dot com http://www.dfenton.com/DFA/
Dec 19 '05 #49

P: n/a
Keith <he**@there.com> wrote in
news:do**********@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com:
David W. Fenton wrote:


[]
Here's a free clue:


Please don't patronise me David, I don't need it.


If you're acting like a child it shouldn't surprise you to be
treated like one.
Steve is not going to change.


That's rather defeatist, enough complaints to his ISP will ensure
he does.


It's only going to have results if the ISP acts on it. Many ISPs
ignore these kinds of things these days.

Indeed, Don Mellon made several false accusations to my ISP back
when he was on his crusade against me. Since my ISP knew me a lot
better than Don, they ignored them.
Get used to.

Killfile him and get on with your life.


This issue takes up very little of my time I'm happy to report.


OK, then.

<PLONK>

--
David W. Fenton http://www.dfenton.com/
usenet at dfenton dot com http://www.dfenton.com/DFA/
Dec 19 '05 #50

74 Replies

This discussion thread is closed

Replies have been disabled for this discussion.