By using this site, you agree to our updated Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Manage your Cookies Settings.
459,249 Members | 1,588 Online
Bytes IT Community
+ Ask a Question
Need help? Post your question and get tips & solutions from a community of 459,249 IT Pros & Developers. It's quick & easy.

Healing

P: n/a
Can we find another way of dealing with PCDatasheet?

Can we find positive things about Steve and emphasize them?
I can think of two
1. He can explain things very clearly;
2. He is knowledgeable about the UI and the various commands of
toolbars and menus etc of Access.
In these two areas he is better than I am.
Can you think of others?

Can we stop denigrating him? Can we forget the past slights we attribute
to him? Can we encourage him when he contributes?

Suppose that he makes his living from work that he picks up through his
newsgroup advertising. Can he stop this advertising and starve? Can we
suggest solutions for this basic problem? If he stops advertising and
stops getting work through that advertising then what?

Can we demonstrate how we would like Steve to behave with our own behaviour?

Do we want him to feel happy and valued?

Can we try?

--
Lyle Fairfield
Dec 13 '05 #1
Share this Question
Share on Google+
27 Replies


P: n/a
Br
Lyle Fairfield wrote:
Can we find another way of dealing with PCDatasheet?

Can we find positive things about Steve and emphasize them?
I can think of two
1. He can explain things very clearly;
2. He is knowledgeable about the UI and the various commands of
toolbars and menus etc of Access.
In these two areas he is better than I am.
Can you think of others?

Can we stop denigrating him? Can we forget the past slights we
attribute to him? Can we encourage him when he contributes?

Suppose that he makes his living from work that he picks up through
his newsgroup advertising. Can he stop this advertising and starve?
Can we suggest solutions for this basic problem? If he stops
advertising and stops getting work through that advertising then what?

Can we demonstrate how we would like Steve to behave with our own
behaviour?
Do we want him to feel happy and valued?

Can we try?


Thanks for trying to be positive. Let's all move on eh?
--
regards,

Bradley

A Christian Response
http://www.pastornet.net.au/response
Dec 13 '05 #2

P: n/a
Very well stated Lyle.
:-)

---
Stephen Lebans
http://www.lebans.com
Access Code, Tips and Tricks
Please respond only to the newsgroups so everyone can benefit.
"Lyle Fairfield" <ly***********@aim.com> wrote in message
news:2B****************@read1.cgocable.net...
Can we find another way of dealing with PCDatasheet?

Can we find positive things about Steve and emphasize them?
I can think of two
1. He can explain things very clearly;
2. He is knowledgeable about the UI and the various commands of toolbars
and menus etc of Access.
In these two areas he is better than I am.
Can you think of others?

Can we stop denigrating him? Can we forget the past slights we attribute
to him? Can we encourage him when he contributes?

Suppose that he makes his living from work that he picks up through his
newsgroup advertising. Can he stop this advertising and starve? Can we
suggest solutions for this basic problem? If he stops advertising and
stops getting work through that advertising then what?

Can we demonstrate how we would like Steve to behave with our own
behaviour?

Do we want him to feel happy and valued?

Can we try?

--
Lyle Fairfield

Dec 13 '05 #3

P: n/a
"David W. Fenton" <dX********@bway.net.invalid> wrote
It's good business, so why shouldn't it be good newsgroup politics?


David and Lyle, Good luck creating a beneficial relationship with Steve.

As for me, I tend just not to do business with people who blatantly
disregard the rules of the game -- particularly if they continue to
demonstrate that they have not changed one whit, or that they have gotten
worse over time, and Steve has certainly demonstrated that.

No, I can't make him stop. Yes, I can politely complain to his newsserver,
and I will continue to do so if he continues to advertise in this newsgroup.
I believe Earthlink's Acceptable Use Policies were recently quoted.

Larry

Dec 13 '05 #4

P: n/a

"Lyle Fairfield" <ly***********@aim.com> schreef in bericht news:2B****************@read1.cgocable.net...
Can we find another way of dealing with PCDatasheet? Can we find positive things about Steve and emphasize them?


I am not going to tell anything nice here about PC because at the moment I just can't think of anything...
-- He demonstrated a total lack of decency more than often.
-- He does not give a sh** about what other people say in these groups.
-- He falsely accused me and others more than often. (and I am talking of very lame accusations here...)
(I will stop now but the list is very long ...)

So I would think of it as *very hypocritical* to say nice things about Steve now.
So, this time I am not with you Lyle. Sorry for that.

It is very simple and a lot of us have told him before:
==> Steve could just start behaving like everyone else here.
==> It's simple. It's not complicated. It's not difficult.

So I will stop this game immediately as soon as Steve stops job hunting and changes his sig back to the four-line-sig he used before.
If Steve makes *any statement here* that he will stop abusing the groups I will even remove the website.
I don't even demand excuses or whatever from this guy. Isn't that nice??

==>My only goal here is to stop him advertising/job hunting.
==>My only goal here is to show that we can (yes David we can ...) stop Steve.
And ...we are doing very good at the moment!

Btw:
Not me, nor my so-called goons are responsible for the latest humiliating and denigrating thread.
As Duane said: Steve is his own worst enemy.

The best thing Steve can do in my opinion is to take a break.
He could stay away for a few days or so to calm down.
He could come back 'normally' and all this misery can be forgotten soon.

Arno R
Dec 13 '05 #5

P: n/a
"Larry Linson" <bo*****@localhost.not> wrote in
news:Ayrnf.20133$7r6.10105@trnddc07:
"Lyle Fairfield" <ly***********@aim.com> wrote
Can we find another way of dealing with PCDatasheet?
I'm sure we _could_. As David has repeatedly advised us, we could
just ignore his advertising and his violation of the basics of
USENET behavior and of the charter of the newsgroup. . . .\


One reason to do this is that he has been soliciting like this for
a very long time but the slippery slope problem has failed to
materialize. That seems to indicate that the problem remains
localized with him, perhaps because anyone that might have been
tempted by his example has seen the reprobation he's garnered.
Steve is stubborn and won't change, but I doubt that's going to
cause the newsgroup to be overrun with spam.

[]
Can we try?


If you mean, should we just let him get away with violating
USENET rules and the charter, charging people for solutions that
he got by posting under psuedonyms without any consequences, and
throwing public tantrums when he's pointed out for those
transgressions, then I guess my question would be "Why should we
favor him so?"


Is there one goddamned thing you can do to stop him?

So far, all the efforts in that direction have beem more of the "we
had to destroy the village to save it" variety. I don't appreciate
that, especially when I wasn't bothered by the offense in the first
place.
What you said may have been "well said" as Stephen put it, but I
don't think it stands the test of Steve's history here.


I think Lyle'ls point is that maybe it's time to let go of history
and try to move forward on a positive note. I have found in
business situations that you can poison a relationship by dwelling
on what went wrong in the past, but can kindle anew a good
relationship simply by focussing on what can be accomplished by
dwelling on positive steps for the future.

It's good business, so why shouldn't it be good newsgroup politics?

--
David W. Fenton http://www.bway.net/~dfenton
dfenton at bway dot net http://www.bway.net/~dfassoc
Dec 13 '05 #6

P: n/a

"David W. Fenton" <dX********@bway.net.invalid> schreef in bericht news:Xn*********************************@24.29.109 .198...
Is there one goddamned thing you can do to stop him?


Yep,
A simple link to the website dedicated to Steve following *all* his advertising posts.
Nothing more is needed. He is already in panic now.

Won't mention the site here. trying to be nice ...

Arno R

Dec 13 '05 #7

P: n/a
"Lyle Fairfield" <ly***********@aim.com> wrote
Can we find another way of dealing with PCDatasheet?
I'm sure we _could_. As David has repeatedly advised us, we could just
ignore his advertising and his violation of the basics of USENET behavior
and of the charter of the newsgroup. That might encourage him... you might
see a quarter screen of answers, or none, and several screens of
unverifiable advertising claims.

Have you tried polite complaints to his news server and ISP? (That's
prescribed for someone who habitually violates the rules, but it's not
always effective.)
Can we find positive things about Steve and emphasize them?
I can think of two
1. He can explain things very clearly;
2. He is knowledgeable about the UI and the various commands of
toolbars and menus etc of Access.
In these two areas he is better than I am.
Can you think of others?
I don't know, Lyle. It is really difficult to tell whether he is
knowledgeable in particular areas or just quoting without attribution.
Can we stop denigrating him? Can we forget the past slights we attribute
to him? Can we encourage him when he contributes?
When he was contributing with a SIG that only modestly exceeded USENET
norms, I did encourage him, and so did some others, I believe. Then,
contributing apparently got to be too much work for him, and we saw more
responses that were just "contact me for cheap work". When that drew fire,
he went to a more-than-SIG that's more advertising SIG than help, by far
now.
Suppose that he makes his living from work that he picks up through his
newsgroup advertising. Can he stop this advertising and starve? Can we
suggest solutions for this basic problem? If he stops advertising and
stops getting work through that advertising then what?
I would surmise that he was making a living before he jumped into the
newsgroup telling us how he was going to refuse to pay someone he hired who
gave him an estimate and exceeded it by a matter of a couple of hours? That
got him "started off on the wrong foot" with a lot of people here. And, he's
repeatedly demonstrated that he really doesn't much give a big rip for
playing by the rules, even when the rules are crystal clear. Accepted RFCs
and charters and the like are for others to abide by and for Steve to
ignore, it seems.
Can we demonstrate how we would like Steve to behave with our own
behaviour?
I've demonstrated to Steve how not to advertise, ever since he's been in the
newsgroup. At one time I had two websites listed in my SIG, and nothing for
sale on either one.
Do we want him to feel happy and valued?
Do you remember what Rhett said to Scarlett?
Can we try?


If you mean, should we just let him get away with violating USENET rules and
the charter, charging people for solutions that he got by posting under
psuedonyms without any consequences, and throwing public tantrums when he's
pointed out for those transgressions, then I guess my question would be "Why
should we favor him so?"

What you said may have been "well said" as Stephen put it, but I don't think
it stands the test of Steve's history here.

Larry

Larry
Dec 13 '05 #8

P: n/a
For all who read this -------------

Larry Linson is nothing but a hypocrite!!

A couple of years ago when he was down and out, he asked me if I would
subcontract to him some of the work I was doing for people from the
newsgroups who came to me asking for help. It was okay then when he was out
of work. Now he is condemning that I am still providing help in the same
way.

XMVP - you were 100% right about Linson!!
--
PC Datasheet
Your Resource For Help With Access, Excel And Word Applications
Over 1050 users have come from the newsgroups trusting me and requesting
help.
re******@pcdatasheet.com

"Lyle Fairfield" <ly***********@aim.com> wrote in message
news:2B****************@read1.cgocable.net...
Can we find another way of dealing with PCDatasheet?

Can we find positive things about Steve and emphasize them?
I can think of two
1. He can explain things very clearly;
2. He is knowledgeable about the UI and the various commands of toolbars
and menus etc of Access.
In these two areas he is better than I am.
Can you think of others?

Can we stop denigrating him? Can we forget the past slights we attribute
to him? Can we encourage him when he contributes?

Suppose that he makes his living from work that he picks up through his
newsgroup advertising. Can he stop this advertising and starve? Can we
suggest solutions for this basic problem? If he stops advertising and
stops getting work through that advertising then what?

Can we demonstrate how we would like Steve to behave with our own
behaviour?

Do we want him to feel happy and valued?

Can we try?

--
Lyle Fairfield

Dec 13 '05 #9

P: n/a
Larry tries to calm the waters for you and this is how you thank him? You're
a class act steve.

John... Visio MVP
"PC Datasheet" <no****@nospam.spam> wrote in message
news:er***************@newsread2.news.atl.earthlin k.net...
For all who read this -------------

Larry Linson is nothing but a hypocrite!!

A couple of years ago when he was down and out, he asked me if I would
subcontract to him some of the work I was doing for people from the
newsgroups who came to me asking for help. It was okay then when he was
out of work. Now he is condemning that I am still providing help in the
same way.

PC Datasheet

"Lyle Fairfield" <ly***********@aim.com> wrote in message
news:2B****************@read1.cgocable.net...
Can we find another way of dealing with PCDatasheet?

Can we find positive things about Steve and emphasize them?
I can think of two
1. He can explain things very clearly;
2. He is knowledgeable about the UI and the various commands of toolbars

Dec 13 '05 #10

P: n/a
Hmmm. I believe that was me. I've refrained from contributing to this
thread because I didn't want my bias to show through, but, apparently,
I had missed the historic post, where Steve complained about "someone
he hired." In retrospect, I think he was speaking about me!

I answered one of Steve's posts and _gave_ him some ASP code for a
project he was working on. When he asked me to modify it, I offered
to do so at my lowest rate, $50 per hour, on a fixed bid. This turned out
to be a bad idea, as Steve was of the opinion that I could make an ASP
web app behave like a Windows form. As he expanded the scope of his
requirements, the hours increased, and so did my bill.

I finally washed my hands of him and told him to keep the app and throw
away the bill (a whapping $700). I took the loss in favor of the alternative,
which was to spend endless hours tweaking HTML until labels lined up
and edit counter-intuitive warning messages for ill-designed user processes
which approximated _his_ idea of acceptable user feedback.

My experience with Steve reinforces my belief that he is an amateur. I
would not recommend anyone seek out his services. While I greatly respect
Lyle and his initiative to heal the wound, the below mentioned, here-to-fore
unnoticed jab at my generosity has roasted up my potatoes (despite my
Italian surname, I'm an Irishman from way back).
--

Danny J. Lesandrini
dl*********@hotmail.com
http://amazecreations.com/datafast

I would surmise that he was making a living before he jumped into the newsgroup telling us how he was going to refuse
to pay someone he hired who gave him an estimate and exceeded it by a matter of a couple of hours? That got him
"started off on the wrong foot" with a lot of people here.

Dec 13 '05 #11

P: n/a
John Marshall, MVP <la******@stonehenge.ca> wrote:
: Larry tries to calm the waters for you and this is how you thank him? You're
: a class act steve.

He complains about Larry Linson who doesn't seem ready to
retreat. The 'calm the waters' quote that follows is from
Lyle Fairfield.
--thelma
just an observer

: John... Visio MVP
: "PC Datasheet" <no****@nospam.spam> wrote in message
: news:er***************@newsread2.news.atl.earthlin k.net...
:> For all who read this -------------
:>
:> Larry Linson is nothing but a hypocrite!!
<snip>
:> "Lyle Fairfield" <ly***********@aim.com> wrote in message
:> news:2B****************@read1.cgocable.net...
:>> Can we find another way of dealing with PCDatasheet?
:>>
:>> Can we find positive things about Steve and emphasize them?
<snip>
Dec 13 '05 #12

P: n/a
Arno

I think
Steve CAN'T withdraw. His world, his mind, his soul; these things will
not permit him to withdraw.

I think you are intelligent,civilized, brave and honest. And I think
you CAN withdraw.

Dec 13 '05 #13

P: n/a
"Larry Linson" <bo*****@localhost.not> wrote in
news:vswnf.15780$OK6.13754@trnddc03:
"David W. Fenton" <dX********@bway.net.invalid> wrote
It's good business, so why shouldn't it be good newsgroup
politics?


David and Lyle, Good luck creating a beneficial relationship with
Steve.


He's in my killfile, so I'm not making any such effort.

However, I'm also not whingeing about him, either, which to me is
more of a problem for the newsgroup now than his original offense.

--
David W. Fenton http://www.bway.net/~dfenton
dfenton at bway dot net http://www.bway.net/~dfassoc
Dec 13 '05 #14

P: n/a
Can I just bung in my twopenny worth, as a (very)semi-pro and a relative
newcomer to this (and other) Access newsgroups?

I came across PC Datasheet on more than a few occasions whilst looking for
answers to my (many) questions. It soon became apparent that, beyond his
desire for business (which I'm guessing we all have), he has very little to
contribute to the group. For that reason I quickly consigned him to the same
category as the spam in my inbox, the junk mail through my letterbox and the
b****y traffic on the M25, ie, it's incredibly irritating, intensely
frustrating, but there doesn't seem an awful lot I can do about it, so I
delete/bin/ignore it.

Whenever I see a reply from PC Datasheet I simply don't read it. Not because
I think he is evil or anything so daft, but simply because my experience has
been that it isn't worth my time.

I appreciate that he is breaking the rules and in some cases cluttering up
our screens, which must be intensely frustrating if you've just spent your
time trying to help someone,but if he didn't get business from it then surely
he wouldn't do it. Assuming that it's feasible, maybe there is something to
be said for educating the users of the newsgroups on the negative aspects of
encouraging him by using his services? There are certainly many so-called
experts who recommend the same strategy for dealing with spam, junk mail and
traffic.

For my own part, if I was desperate enough to want to pay for help, I would
go to the people who have proven their worth by giving their time and
expertise freely and unconditionally.

Merry Christmas to you all and thanks for your time.

--
Message posted via AccessMonster.com
http://www.accessmonster.com/Uwe/For...ccess/200512/1
Dec 13 '05 #15

P: n/a
I can recollect PC Datasheet asking me for subcontract work. I do not recall
ever asking him for any work, as it never occurred to me that he had enough
for himself (and I still hold that opinion). It, thus, appears that his
memory is faulty. A faulty memory would not be much of a recommendation for
contracting with him to do work.

But, for certain, one thing I have never done is to advertise for work in
the newsgroups -- that would be in violation of USENET rules, as set forth
in a number of adopted RFCs and in violation of the charter of this
newsgroup. And, until PC Datasheet increased his SIG beyond a reasonable
four lines or so, and before he started dropping in his "contact me for a
solution to your problem" posts into so many message threads, I didn't
criticize him.

The advertising he is doing is, also, if I understand correctly, against his
news server's (Earthlink) Acceptable Use Policy. And that would open him up
to the hassle of losing his account, if they back up their AUP with action
when people complain politely and include his offending post, with full
headers.

Larry Linson


Dec 15 '05 #16

P: n/a
"Larry Linson" <bo*****@localhost.not> wrote in message
news:3daof.42320$Y7.36686@trnddc02...

The advertising he is doing is, also, if I understand correctly, against
his news server's (Earthlink) Acceptable Use Policy. And that would open
him up to the hassle of losing his account, if they back up their AUP with
action when people complain politely and include his offending post, with
full headers.

Is one such complaint to Earthlink from an individual enough or s it a
question of bombarding them into action?
Dec 15 '05 #17

P: n/a

"Danny J. Lesandrini" <dl*********@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht news:9u********************@giganews.com...
Hmmm. I believe that was me.


Danny,
Sorry to hear that you were burned also.
Did not know your story but my guess is that Larry meant the story of the Neil Ginsberg 'rip off'.

Steve's version (thread 'To All'):
http://groups.google.com/group/comp....88f8ae9eb501f2
Neils version (same thread):
http://groups.google.com/group/comp....038ba2954261f9

Arno R
Dec 15 '05 #18

P: n/a
Larry Linson wrote:
I can recollect PC Datasheet asking me for subcontract work. I do not recall
ever asking him for any work, as it never occurred to me that he had enough
for himself (and I still hold that opinion).


Larry, I never thought the story of your asking Steve for work had any
substance at all.

Dec 15 '05 #19

P: n/a
Linson, you are a hypocrite and a liar. XMVP was 110% right about
you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"Larry Linson" <bo*****@localhost.not> wrote in message
news:3daof.42320$Y7.36686@trnddc02...
I can recollect PC Datasheet asking me for subcontract work. I do not
recall ever asking him for any work, as it never occurred to me that he had
enough for himself (and I still hold that opinion). It, thus, appears that
his memory is faulty. A faulty memory would not be much of a recommendation
for contracting with him to do work.

But, for certain, one thing I have never done is to advertise for work in
the newsgroups -- that would be in violation of USENET rules, as set forth
in a number of adopted RFCs and in violation of the charter of this
newsgroup. And, until PC Datasheet increased his SIG beyond a reasonable
four lines or so, and before he started dropping in his "contact me for a
solution to your problem" posts into so many message threads, I didn't
criticize him.

The advertising he is doing is, also, if I understand correctly, against
his news server's (Earthlink) Acceptable Use Policy. And that would open
him up to the hassle of losing his account, if they back up their AUP with
action when people complain politely and include his offending post, with
full headers.

Larry Linson

Dec 15 '05 #20

P: n/a
And here's what Linson said about you, Lyle --

There are opportunistic trolls around, though, who'll jump into a fray if
they spot one, and some might have participated here and there. It's clear
to me from the writing style and content that many of the Hotmail / Google
posts are Mellon and, I think, most of the Anonymous.

But, I would certainly not rule out that Lyle as an active participant. Some
of our colleagues, remembering back in the pre-Access 2000 days when he was
an active and usually helpful participant, are quick to rationalize for him.
I think I've said that I consider him "worse than a troll, a
formerly-productive turncoat who allied himself with the trolls". It is
clear that he formed a deep-seated hatred for Michael Kaplan, David Fenton,
and me during the Access 2000 debates. But his hatred for me can't be any
stronger than my disgust with him.

"Lyle Fairfield" <ly***********@aim.com> wrote in message
news:11**********************@g44g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
Larry Linson wrote:
I can recollect PC Datasheet asking me for subcontract work. I do not
recall
ever asking him for any work, as it never occurred to me that he had
enough
for himself (and I still hold that opinion).


Larry, I never thought the story of your asking Steve for work had any
substance at all.

Dec 15 '05 #21

P: n/a
Things change, Steve.
They could change for you (with many of us at least) if you would give
us the slightest opportunity, the barest opening, the least glimmer of
hope.

Dec 15 '05 #22

P: n/a
"Lyle Fairfield" <ly***********@aim.com> wrote in message
news:11**********************@f14g2000cwb.googlegr oups.com...
Things change, Steve.


Are there any other skeletons you'd like to dig up to attempt to create an
ally Steve?
Dec 15 '05 #23

P: n/a
PC Datasheet wrote:
Linson, you are a hypocrite and a liar. XMVP was 110% right about
you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Steve, you should stop now. Surely you can see the folly of putting
yourself into the same camp as that poster? One could easily use your
post here to substantiate a claim that you were of the same cut as xmvp.
I'm not about to make such a claim, but holy smoke, you're baring your
breast here...

--
Tim http://www.ucs.mun.ca/~tmarshal/
^o<
/#) "Burp-beep, burp-beep, burp-beep?" - Quaker Jake
/^^ "Whatcha doin?" - Ditto "TIM-MAY!!" - Me
Dec 15 '05 #24

P: n/a
"Larry Linson" <bo*****@localhost.not> wrote in
news:3daof.42320$Y7.36686@trnddc02:
The advertising he is doing is, also, if I understand correctly,
against his news server's (Earthlink) Acceptable Use Policy. And
that would open him up to the hassle of losing his account, if
they back up their AUP with action when people complain politely
and include his offending post, with full headers.


Are you sure the post you're responding to was not forged by Don
Mellon?

--
David W. Fenton http://www.dfenton.com/
usenet at dfenton dot com http://www.dfenton.com/DFA/
Dec 15 '05 #25

P: n/a
No it wasn't, David!

Linson did come to me a couple of years ago and ask if I would sobcontract
work I was doing for people from the newsgroup to him. Right hand on the
bible!!!

Now the S.O.B. hypocrite is lying that he never did and double lieing saying
I went to him. He's nothing but a blowhard that likes to stand high on his
soapbox expecting everyone to listen enthralled by what he is saying. Look
at many of his posts. When you stick a pin in them and let out all the hot
air, there's nothing left but a puddle of crap. He has let becoming an MVP
go to his head!!!!!
--
PC Datasheet
Your Resource For Help With Access, Excel And Word Applications
Over 1050 users have come from the newsgroups trusting me and requesting
help.
re******@pcdatasheet.com

"David W. Fenton" <XX*******@dfenton.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:Xn*********************************@216.196.9 7.142...
"Larry Linson" <bo*****@localhost.not> wrote in
news:3daof.42320$Y7.36686@trnddc02:
The advertising he is doing is, also, if I understand correctly,
against his news server's (Earthlink) Acceptable Use Policy. And
that would open him up to the hassle of losing his account, if
they back up their AUP with action when people complain politely
and include his offending post, with full headers.


Are you sure the post you're responding to was not forged by Don
Mellon?

--
David W. Fenton http://www.dfenton.com/
usenet at dfenton dot com http://www.dfenton.com/DFA/

Dec 16 '05 #26

P: n/a
PC Datasheet wrote:
No it wasn't, David!

Linson did come to me a couple of years ago and ask if I would sobcontract
work I was doing for people from the newsgroup to him. Right hand on the
bible!!!
First, we need to get an idea of how bad of a sin your advertising is.
I hope to present enough of a perspective to frame that question
properly. Hopefully, you will indicate the severity of your actions
after reading this. You are smart enough to know that you are
violating the charter. Have you been provoked enough to justify that
violation? We should be smart enough to figure that out.

Since you mention respect for the Bible, I will attempt an exegesis
based on examples from the Good book. Apologies to those with other
good books, including Atheists.

Assuming that your behavior does not correspond to a mortal sin (i.e.,
a sin that puts one beyond the possibility of Divine forgiveness) I
will use examples of sins that aren't so mortal. Namely, smoking,
drinking and gambling, plus one that is more analogous to the current
situation.

Sins seem to fall into the increasingly severe categories of being
against oneself, being against others and being against the Deity
(i.e., the newsgroup itself). I'm not suggesting NG idolatry here; I'm
just an establishing an analogy.

It may surprise some that there are no specific prohibitions to
smoking, moderate drinking, or gambling anywhere in the entire Bible.
Sins that affect only the sinner are dealt with in the Bible,
suprisingly, by a single instance or two of Divine ridicule and then
nothing more is said. The principle seems to be that acting against
your own interests isn't too bright.

Smoking, which is a "sin" that, excepting second-hand smoke for now,
only hurts the sinner. So to determine "What Would Jesus Do" (WWJD) I
try to think of anything that seems to be related to smoking. Hmmm..
I can only think of one off the top of my head. A vague reference in
the Old Testament to those who "feed on ashes." The single mild poking
fun at seems to be all there is about it. You can say that the body is
a temple and that the temple is receiving fire damage but the damage
itself seems to be the extent of the punishment. BTW, I have never
smoked.

IMO, drinking is a "sin" that only happens when taken to excess. Even
Jesus drank. Anyone who thinks He created grape juice at the wedding
at Cana doesn't know Ja.. err Jesus well, or worse just ignore the
contextual clues. He was even accused of being a drunk. Outside of a
couple of Old Testament examples of very bad behavior after drinking
too much (incest in one example) and a few short warnings about it in
both Testaments, the Bible is nearly silent. People are still
responsible for their actions but, by itself, the penalty for drinking
seems to serve itself. BTW, please don't drink and drive!

Gambling is more interesting. The Old Testament references to gambling
seem to encourage it, or at least to have enough confidence in God's
protection based on a holy lifestyle to go out and risk fighting the
enemy to get your piece of the pie. Even the Gospel doesn't slam the
Roman soldiers for gambling. The warning seems to be that those who
get caught up in gambling may become too preoccupied with it and miss
something important. BTW, if you gamble, don't lose :-).

So I think that those of us who ridicule you are misinterpreting and
understating the severity of your actions. Excessive ridicule is
almost never what the situation calls for. I.e., it's not the next
step after mild ridicule. In spite of the amount of fun some have had
with it (including myself I'm sorry to say), I recommend that we treat
you with the respect that is due an adult and vice-versa, yet still
allow for some humor. Since your actions are quite difficult to
quantify as far as damage to other posters and readers of this NG, I'll
skip right to my point. I think your actions are similar to the money
changers in the temple. They were able to rent vendor space for free
in violation of the law while others had to pay rent elsewhere in the
normal fashion. In spite of this unfair advantage to other vendors,
the main problem is that it mocks the Deity. So, WWJD? In that case
He didn't attact the vendors themselves. He struck at the venue.
Hard. So in that light, I can understand why some posters have struck
at your ability to advertise here directly. I understand that
attacking the venue is problematic. I sincerely apologize if I have
misunderstood you and hope to be corrected if that is the case. I
don't know for sure, but I'm inclined to think that you are simply
testing the NG to see how we handle this situation. I am still hoping
that all this will be resolved. I just don't have enough wisdom to
make everyone happy. In the meanwhile, I'm going to try to enjoy the
show as much as possible and secretly hope, due to the prurience that
still lingers within me, that both the advertising and the bashing
continue. And I repeat that the main problem IMO is that you
disrespect this great NG. To me, it's unfathomable unless its the only
way you have to vent your problems with others here.
Now the S.O.B. hypocrite is lying that he never did and double lieing saying
I went to him. He's nothing but a blowhard that likes to stand high on his
soapbox expecting everyone to listen enthralled by what he is saying. Look
at many of his posts. When you stick a pin in them and let out all the hot
air, there's nothing left but a puddle of crap. He has let becoming an MVP
go to his head!!!!!


I have to admit that paragraph was humorous to read but it's not a step
in the right direction. Maybe it's a case of everything seeming pure
to the pure? It doesn't matter to me whether he tried to get
sobcontract work or not. Given what you say, he needed work badly but
still didn't resort to violating the NG charter, right? You say you're
doing better than most of us here. Why would you still need to
advertise here? With that many satisfied customers the referral work
should be more than enough to keep you and a moderately sized staff
very busy. We want you to post here and succeed, but in the right way.
If I think of any ways to help the situation I'll post back. Back to
Access.

James A. Fortune

If we even touch the fruit we'll die. -- Eve

Dec 16 '05 #27

P: n/a
"PC Datasheet" <no****@nospam.spam> wrote <SNIP>

Poor, poor pitiful little troll. Steve, you're edging up on "about as close
to universally disliked as can be."

I have sent e-mail directly to Steve only once or twice since he expanded
his SIG and began, so often, to post just to contact him for his (paid)
help. When I did, it was to urge him to reduce his SIG (as I see he did in
this post... but it has been much longer), and to stop the blatant and
frequent advertising.

If he has a link to a post that validates his claim, let him post it here.
It is too easy to forge an e-mail to accept a "quoted e-mail", so that won't
wash. We have seen him "quote" posts to bolster his point, when he could
have posted a link if they were genuine, and we have seen him "quote"
endorsement e-mails, which, of course, can't be verified.

Just for the record, I have never been "down and out" to the extent that I
would advertise in the newsgroup, nor have I ever been so "down and out"
that I'd beg Steve for work -- after seeing how he planned to treat his
subcontractor when he first posted in this newsgroup, that would be just
begging to be ripped off.

I don't know what it is that might have gone to Steve's head to convince him
that the charter and adopted RFCs do not apply to him.

Larry Linson
Dec 17 '05 #28

This discussion thread is closed

Replies have been disabled for this discussion.