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Dialogue with newsgroup Megalomaniacs (change of Subject...)

P: n/a

Please read below for my collective response to recent posts on this
topic.

First a repeat of my suggestion:

"Anytime you feel you are in a position to answer a question, but
don't
feel like doing so because you don't like the way it is asked. either
ignore it, or put the poster on your ignore filter!, Spare everyone
the
banality of reading how you got to be such an expert, and how
everybody
else should pay their dues like you have. "

Now the replies:


How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

see Suggestion

You must first learn the basics of newsgroup etiquette and ethics.
Your uninformed tirade is off-topic and the spamming you support is
unethical.

A newsgroup is a public forum, similar to a street corner. The ethics
and etiquette that you talk about is your own misunderstood context
you have attached to this public space. You are the over-zealous
homeless who takes ownership of a street corner, not knowing that
it in fact belongs to everybody.

You must learn that those who make statements using nothing but
capital letters are often and justifiably abused. It is a failed
attempt to provide emphasis.
Again with your self-imposed rules and blind observations....


Understand that newsgroups are for discussion. No usenet subscriber
has any right to an answer to any "question". If the problem is
urgent, paid support is available.

See my Suggestion.

Virtually all subscribers will ignore your request to spam. Quite
some time ago, the newsgroup news.newusers.questions was created to
help dispel misunderstands such as yours about usenet; subscribe to it
and read the articles before proffering another rant.

My post has been effective in smoling out the megalomaniacs who claim
to know better than other what is best for a public forum. The silent
majority is with me.

You need to learn that some of us filter on inappropriate cross-posts. If
you choose to reply to such spam then please continue the cross-posting so
that we will not be bothered by your puerile discussions.
Thanks for following my Suggestion.

No, it does not, especially in c.o.l.setup. It is completely off-topic.

This is completely on-topic. As it discusses a topic vital to the
usefulness
of this and other groups.


1) Newsgroups have rules. Those rules in general are agreed upon by the
participants; if a poster follows the rules then they shouldn't have any
problems.
Correction: a newsgroup is a public forum. There are no rules. There
are
SUGGESTIONS that people who have been around for sometime get to know.
And if a poster follows the rules you are the one who doesn't have any
problems.

2) Responders spend their own time replying to posters, if the responder
wants to spend that time giving a full and complete answer or referncing a
webpage, previous thread or whatever then that is entirely up to them.
A good point in general, but spending time to flame someone instead of
answering a question, is something nobody wants to hear.

3) If you as an individual don't like a particular responders responses
then
ignore them, or as an extreme killfile them.
Thanks for agreeing with me.

4) It's a general truism in life that you get what you pay for, if your
lucky, with NGs you pay nothing for a massive resource of experience if
you don't like what you get then essentially hard luck, you can then fall back
on the resoure of working it out for yourself and doing your own research.
EXACTLY! The megalomaniacs on this and other boards are here because
they can
afford buying a computer and pay for internet connection fees. This
gives
them no right to impose rules on anyone else.


In summary your posting is the most selfish, self-serving plea I have ever
seen and displays a staggeringly woeful lack of perception as to what
newsgroups are about. If you don't like it here then don't come. If you
think ther is a better way to answer OPs then do it, but don't stand there
with your hand out for favours and then complain because you don't get
exactly what you want.
My post is neither selfish nor self-serving. I can perhaps answer more
questions
than receive answers. I wrote this post because I was responding to a
question on this newgroup, and some idiot had posted prior to me
complaining
that the person asking the question had posted on multiple
newsgroups.....
I can't imagine the swollen head that led to such a complaint!!!!!!

Think of my post as a society elder bringing attention to a much
deserved
problem.

You're entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to ignore it.

Thanks for following my Suggestion.

Most of the responses to this point to your OP have been pretty
reasonable, civil, and polite. But I will try to summarize thusly:

Fuck you! No one here is being paid to answer your questions.
Dear Mr. JDS:
There is no reason to bring to this newsgroup the type of language
your father used during your numerous one-on-one molestation sessions
he had with you as a youngster, and the type you eithr are or will
be using with your children during your sessions with them.

Then why did you crosspost it to Access and Sendmail newsgroups?
Because these are other newsgroups I have used in the recent past.

Good advice. *PLOINK!* Good luck getting help from Alan Connor.


I don't personally know Mr. Alan Connor, but if he is socially inept
enough megalomaniac to take offense in what I write, then I prefer
that he puts me on his ignore list.

Dec 8 '05 #1
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44 Replies


P: n/a
mst
On 7 Dec 2005 19:06:19 -0800 "sa****@gmail.com" <sa****@gmail.com> wrote:
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html


see Suggestion


You obviously didnt read.

*plonk*
--
remove MYSHOES to email
Dec 8 '05 #2

P: n/a
No posting rules unless they happen to be your posting rules.

You're being hypocritical.
Dec 8 '05 #3

P: n/a
I feel so ignored. Where is Dr Phil when you need him anyway? So let's
see, perhaps to help us megelomaniacs you could create a pledge we
could sign. I'll even start it and you can correct and add ot it:

I promise to:
1. give technical answers;
2. ignore annoying questions;
2. ignore difficult to understand questions;
3. ignore descriptions of poor practice;
4. avoid expressing my feelings;
5. avoid describing my experiences;
6. avoid admonishing those who could find an answer very quickly in the
help file;
7. avoid admonishing those who post my code as their own;
8. never think, "What's in it for me?";
9. change my name to "Help File";
10. be grateful.

I guess I could do all that.
I wonder if my creativity might suffer and the frequency of my
contributions might lessen if I did.
What do you think?

Dec 8 '05 #4

P: n/a
Br
sa****@gmail.com wrote:
<>
My post has been effective in smoling out the megalomaniacs who claim
to know better than other what is best for a public forum.
Ah so it's confirmed. You are a troll:)
The silent majority is with me.
Assumption.

<>
No, it does not, especially in c.o.l.setup. It is completely
off-topic. This is completely on-topic. As it discusses a topic vital to the
usefulness
of this and other groups.
How is your complaining vital to CDMA? We've gotten along fine so far
thanks.
1) Newsgroups have rules. Those rules in general are agreed upon by
the participants; if a poster follows the rules then they shouldn't
have any problems.

Correction: a newsgroup is a public forum. There are no rules.


Some groups certainly do have rules formed by the people who own the
group or formed by regulars. There are also basic rules for using
Usenet - those included in most ISP's acceptable use policy for example.
There are also accepted practices formed by the community to make life
easier for all.

So is the issue really you just don't like being told what to do?

<>
--
regards,

Bradley

A Christian Response
http://www.pastornet.net.au/response
Dec 8 '05 #5

P: n/a
Br
Lyle Fairfield wrote:
I feel so ignored. Where is Dr Phil when you need him anyway? So let's
see, perhaps to help us megelomaniacs you could create a pledge we
could sign. I'll even start it and you can correct and add ot it:

I promise to:
1. give technical answers;
2. ignore annoying questions;
2. ignore difficult to understand questions;
3. ignore descriptions of poor practice;
4. avoid expressing my feelings;
5. avoid describing my experiences;
6. avoid admonishing those who could find an answer very quickly in
the help file;
7. avoid admonishing those who post my code as their own;
8. never think, "What's in it for me?";
9. change my name to "Help File";
10. be grateful.

I guess I could do all that.
I wonder if my creativity might suffer and the frequency of my
contributions might lessen if I did.
What do you think?


Hehe. Just think..... if we treated people like helpdesk. How BAD would
the "service" be then!!! ;)
--
regards,

Bradley

A Christian Response
http://www.pastornet.net.au/response
Dec 8 '05 #6

P: n/a

<sa****@gmail.com> schreef in bericht news:11*********************@g43g2000cwa.googlegro ups.com...


Why this ranting?
I googled for sa****@gmail.com (In cdma that is ) and came up with 11 results ...

2 of them are these stupid ranting threads
2 of them are not answered (shame on the group!)
leaves 7 others questions where you were treated very nicely IMO

So: Why this ranting here?
I guess we need Dr. Phil indeed ... or we just ignore this?

Arno R
Dec 8 '05 #7

P: n/a
Pease read carefully:

I mean it. Please pay attention as you read the following.

(just to establish a base: paying attention as you read means that you
stop at the end of each sentence and reflect on what it is trying to
say)

-This is dialogue, not rant. If you can't tell the difference, you
should not be here.
-Did it occur to you that if indeed I had started this dialogue for my
own well being, I might have decided to do it under a new name?
-At the risk of repeating myself I should remind you that I am raising
this issue on behalf of people who, not knowing better, might see
logistic complaints about their posts not for what it truely is
(megalomania) but as valid criticism which might lead them to waste
plenty time before they get the help that will point them in the right
direction.

All I am asking is that we include the following is the group FAQ:
"to existing members of the group: please understand that for every
expert in a field, there are many new comers who will need direction
and help to get started. Please encourage new-comers by being tolerant
of all questions, even if not well-researched, or well-phrased. These
qualities cannot be expected of someone lacking the necessary
coordination in a given field, and without our intial help, we will
only delay these new-comers' progress in getting the necessary skills
to become productive memebers of this group. If you don't feel like
answering a post because it is not well researched, or well
constructed, please ignore the post."

Dec 8 '05 #8

P: n/a

<sa****@gmail.com> schreef in bericht news:11**********************@g43g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
-This is dialogue, not rant. If you can't tell the difference, you
should not be here.


IMO a dialogue is not started with capitals.
IMO a dialogue is not started with name calling.

I will end this 'dialogue' now. Just don't feel like a 'dialogue' this way.
-- Please accept my apology if I bothered you.
-- Bye and good luck!

Arno R

Dec 8 '05 #9

P: n/a
I repeat you have no idea what usenet is about.

The thing you really need to get out of your head is that there are no
rules.

Your ISP imposess rules of acceptable conduct

There are basic rules of conduct which apply to all usenet groups unless
they specifically opt out

Some groups (such as CDMA) have a charter which has been agreed to by the
majority of responders at the time response was requested (a bit like the
standard Western democracy system, the difference being everybody is
enfranchised).
Wishing it was different and saying that it is different does not make it
different.

Anyway, which is it are you just deluded or are you a troll?
--
Terry Kreft

<sa****@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:11*********************@g43g2000cwa.googlegro ups.com...

Please read below for my collective response to recent posts on this
topic.

First a repeat of my suggestion:

"Anytime you feel you are in a position to answer a question, but
don't
feel like doing so because you don't like the way it is asked. either
ignore it, or put the poster on your ignore filter!, Spare everyone
the
banality of reading how you got to be such an expert, and how
everybody
else should pay their dues like you have. "

Now the replies:


How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html


see Suggestion

You must first learn the basics of newsgroup etiquette and ethics.
Your uninformed tirade is off-topic and the spamming you support is
unethical.


A newsgroup is a public forum, similar to a street corner. The ethics
and etiquette that you talk about is your own misunderstood context
you have attached to this public space. You are the over-zealous
homeless who takes ownership of a street corner, not knowing that
it in fact belongs to everybody.

You must learn that those who make statements using nothing but
capital letters are often and justifiably abused. It is a failed
attempt to provide emphasis.


Again with your self-imposed rules and blind observations....


Understand that newsgroups are for discussion. No usenet subscriber
has any right to an answer to any "question". If the problem is
urgent, paid support is available.

See my Suggestion.

Virtually all subscribers will ignore your request to spam. Quite
some time ago, the newsgroup news.newusers.questions was created to
help dispel misunderstands such as yours about usenet; subscribe to it
and read the articles before proffering another rant.


My post has been effective in smoling out the megalomaniacs who claim
to know better than other what is best for a public forum. The silent
majority is with me.

You need to learn that some of us filter on inappropriate cross-posts.
If
you choose to reply to such spam then please continue the cross-posting
so
that we will not be bothered by your puerile discussions.


Thanks for following my Suggestion.

No, it does not, especially in c.o.l.setup. It is completely off-topic.


This is completely on-topic. As it discusses a topic vital to the
usefulness
of this and other groups.


1) Newsgroups have rules. Those rules in general are agreed upon by the
participants; if a poster follows the rules then they shouldn't have any
problems.


Correction: a newsgroup is a public forum. There are no rules. There
are
SUGGESTIONS that people who have been around for sometime get to know.
And if a poster follows the rules you are the one who doesn't have any
problems.

2) Responders spend their own time replying to posters, if the responder
wants to spend that time giving a full and complete answer or referncing
a
webpage, previous thread or whatever then that is entirely up to them.


A good point in general, but spending time to flame someone instead of
answering a question, is something nobody wants to hear.

3) If you as an individual don't like a particular responders responses
then
ignore them, or as an extreme killfile them.


Thanks for agreeing with me.

4) It's a general truism in life that you get what you pay for, if your
lucky, with NGs you pay nothing for a massive resource of experience if
you don't like what you get then essentially hard luck, you can then fall
back
on the resoure of working it out for yourself and doing your own
research.


EXACTLY! The megalomaniacs on this and other boards are here because
they can
afford buying a computer and pay for internet connection fees. This
gives
them no right to impose rules on anyone else.


In summary your posting is the most selfish, self-serving plea I have
ever
seen and displays a staggeringly woeful lack of perception as to what
newsgroups are about. If you don't like it here then don't come. If you
think ther is a better way to answer OPs then do it, but don't stand
there
with your hand out for favours and then complain because you don't get
exactly what you want.


My post is neither selfish nor self-serving. I can perhaps answer more
questions
than receive answers. I wrote this post because I was responding to a
question on this newgroup, and some idiot had posted prior to me
complaining
that the person asking the question had posted on multiple
newsgroups.....
I can't imagine the swollen head that led to such a complaint!!!!!!

Think of my post as a society elder bringing attention to a much
deserved
problem.

You're entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to ignore it.


Thanks for following my Suggestion.

Most of the responses to this point to your OP have been pretty
reasonable, civil, and polite. But I will try to summarize thusly:

Fuck you! No one here is being paid to answer your questions.


Dear Mr. JDS:
There is no reason to bring to this newsgroup the type of language
your father used during your numerous one-on-one molestation sessions
he had with you as a youngster, and the type you eithr are or will
be using with your children during your sessions with them.

Then why did you crosspost it to Access and Sendmail newsgroups?


Because these are other newsgroups I have used in the recent past.

Good advice. *PLOINK!* Good luck getting help from Alan Connor.


I don't personally know Mr. Alan Connor, but if he is socially inept
enough megalomaniac to take offense in what I write, then I prefer
that he puts me on his ignore list.

Dec 8 '05 #10

P: n/a
Hey Lyle,
I got quoted four times so I think I should be the one making the rules 'cos
I must be the biggest megalomaniac.

And so I propose the following pledge:-
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I promise to:
1. give technical answers;
2. ignore annoying questions;
2. ignore difficult to understand questions;
3. ignore descriptions of poor practice;
4. avoid expressing my feelings;
5. avoid describing my experiences;
6. avoid admonishing those who could find an answer very quickly in the
help file;
7. avoid admonishing those who post my code as their own;
8. never think, "What's in it for me?";
9. change my name to "Help File";
10. be grateful.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

And when responding Lyle I respectfully draw your attention to items 7, 4
and 10.

<g>

--
Terry Kreft

"Lyle Fairfield" <ly***********@aim.com> wrote in message
news:11*********************@g44g2000cwa.googlegro ups.com...I feel so ignored. Where is Dr Phil when you need him anyway? So let's
see, perhaps to help us megelomaniacs you could create a pledge we
could sign. I'll even start it and you can correct and add ot it:

I promise to:
1. give technical answers;
2. ignore annoying questions;
2. ignore difficult to understand questions;
3. ignore descriptions of poor practice;
4. avoid expressing my feelings;
5. avoid describing my experiences;
6. avoid admonishing those who could find an answer very quickly in the
help file;
7. avoid admonishing those who post my code as their own;
8. never think, "What's in it for me?";
9. change my name to "Help File";
10. be grateful.

I guess I could do all that.
I wonder if my creativity might suffer and the frequency of my
contributions might lessen if I did.
What do you think?

Dec 8 '05 #11

P: n/a
In comp.os.linux.setup sa****@gmail.com <sa****@gmail.com> wrote:
of all questions, even if not well-researched, or well-phrased. These
qualities cannot be expected of someone lacking the necessary


Of course they can! That's the basics of being human! Do you expect to
go and buy a car without checking to find out what it runs on, how to
open the dooors, etc?

People who can't do the elementary things you mention are what are
called "losers". They need help all right.

Peter
Dec 8 '05 #12

P: n/a

<sa****@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:11**********************@g43g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
Pease read carefully:

I mean it. Please pay attention as you read the following.

(just to establish a base: paying attention as you read means that you
stop at the end of each sentence and reflect on what it is trying to
say)

-This is dialogue, not rant. If you can't tell the difference, you
should not be here.


No, we should just plonk you since you haven't actually followed the rules
you are promulgating.

*plonk*.
Dec 8 '05 #13

P: n/a
[f'up2poster since all this is not relevant to any of the listed
groups.]

Terry Kreft <te*********@mps.co.uk> wrote:
There are basic rules of conduct which apply to all usenet groups unless
they specifically opt out


[large snip]

Am I right that top posting and full quoting is not covered by those
basic rules?

SCNR,
hauke

Dec 8 '05 #14

P: n/a
This confuses me:

"And when responding Lyle I respectfully draw your attention to items
7, 4
and 10."

But I could start with number 10, saying, I'd be grateful if you could
be more explicit.

Dec 8 '05 #15

P: n/a
You must all excuse me as English is my second language. What is a
troll? and what do you mean by "plonk?"

May god eternally damn anyone who replies saying I should look it up
first in a dictionary or I am posting to the wrong group! ;)

Dec 8 '05 #16

P: n/a
"In Internet terminology, a troll is a person who posts inflammatory
messages on the internet, such as on online discussion forums, to
disrupt discussion or to upset its participants. "Troll" can also mean
the inflammatory message itself posted by a troll or be a verb meaning
to post such messages. "Trolling" (the gerund) is also commonly used to
describe the activity."
"Plonk is a Usenet slang term for adding a particular person to one's
kill file. It can be used as a verb to describe the action, or appended
to the end of one's Usenet post to publicly demonstrate that you have
added a person to your kill file."

from

http://en.wikipedia.org/
"Wikipedia (pronounced as [ˌwiˑkiˈpidi.ə] or [ˌwɪki-], also
[-ɐ]) is a multi-lingual Web-based free-content encyclopedia."

Dec 8 '05 #17

P: n/a


Oh! Thanks for the information.

I am definitely not a troll, and I am not trolling. I have a genuine
interest in improving the online tech community.

And how come I keep seeing the same person "plonk"ing me? Assuming of
course that person was serious about putting me on ignore.

Dec 8 '05 #18

P: n/a
In comp.os.linux.setup Lyle Fairfield <ly***********@aim.com> wrote:
"Plonk is a Usenet slang term for adding a particular person to one's
kill file. It can be used as a verb to describe the action, or appended
to the end of one's Usenet post to publicly demonstrate that you have
added a person to your kill file." from http://en.wikipedia.org/


But the FO-lDC has it better:

plonk

<networking, abuse> (Possibly influenced by British slang
"plonk" for cheap booze, or "plonker" for someone behaving
stupidly) The sound a {newbie} makes as he falls to the bottom
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^
of a {kill file}.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

And

Another theory is that it is an acronym for "Person with
Little Or No Knowledge".
Both the Dict Comp (above) and the Jargon File comment:

While it originated in the {newsgroup} talk.bizarre, this term
(usually written "*plonk*") is now widespread on Usenet as a form of
public ridicule.
Peter
Dec 8 '05 #19

P: n/a
Sometimes "Plonk" is used to express strong disagreement rather than
literally, ... like "Kick Ass!".
Sometimes a plonker can't resist seeing what effect his/plonking has
had.
To my knowledge I've been plonked by two people. One continued to
respond to my posts with, "My friends have told me ....". Another just
replied.
I have two people plonked in XNews right now. But often I have to use
Google Groups. And there's no way that I know to plonk here. So I get
involved in discussions which involve them regardless. So for me,
plonking is pretty well pointless.

Dec 8 '05 #20

P: n/a
Yep.
--
Terry Kreft

"Hauke Fath" <sp*******@Espresso.Rhein-Neckar.DE> wrote in message
news:1h795tn.ok3utgiwl8u8N%sp*******@Espresso.Rhei n-Neckar.DE...
[f'up2poster since all this is not relevant to any of the listed
groups.]

Terry Kreft <te*********@mps.co.uk> wrote:
There are basic rules of conduct which apply to all usenet groups unless
they specifically opt out


[large snip]

Am I right that top posting and full quoting is not covered by those
basic rules?

SCNR,
hauke

Dec 8 '05 #21

P: n/a
Yep

--
Terry Kreft

"Hauke Fath" <sp*******@Espresso.Rhein-Neckar.DE> wrote in message
news:1h795tn.ok3utgiwl8u8N%sp*******@Espresso.Rhei n-Neckar.DE...
[f'up2poster since all this is not relevant to any of the listed
groups.]

Terry Kreft <te*********@mps.co.uk> wrote:
There are basic rules of conduct which apply to all usenet groups unless
they specifically opt out


[large snip]

Am I right that top posting and full quoting is not covered by those
basic rules?

SCNR,
hauke

Dec 8 '05 #22

P: n/a
Yep.

--
Terry Kreft

"Hauke Fath" <sp*******@Espresso.Rhein-Neckar.DE> wrote in message
news:1h795tn.ok3utgiwl8u8N%sp*******@Espresso.Rhei n-Neckar.DE...
[f'up2poster since all this is not relevant to any of the listed
groups.]

Terry Kreft <te*********@mps.co.uk> wrote:
There are basic rules of conduct which apply to all usenet groups unless
they specifically opt out


[large snip]

Am I right that top posting and full quoting is not covered by those
basic rules?

SCNR,
hauke

Dec 8 '05 #23

P: n/a
In comp.databases.ms-access sa****@gmail.com <sa****@gmail.com> wrote:
: All I am asking is that we include the following is the group FAQ:
: "to existing members of the group: please understand that for every
: expert in a field, there are many new comers who will need direction
: and help to get started. Please encourage new-comers by being tolerant
: of all questions, even if not well-researched, or well-phrased. These
: qualities cannot be expected of someone lacking the necessary
: coordination in a given field, and without our intial help, we will
: only delay these new-comers' progress in getting the necessary skills
: to become productive memebers of this group. If you don't feel like
: answering a post because it is not well researched, or well
: constructed, please ignore the post."

I am relatively new to Access. I came to CDMA for help and I've
been amazed at the level of tutoring here: your paragraph is an
excellent description of the help actually given to newcomers
(and to peers when asked, too) by a core group of
powerful professionals. The occasional flamefests that break
out--like this one--are a bonus of free entertainment for me.

thank you everyone in CDMA
--thelma
Dec 8 '05 #24

P: n/a
Unfortunately, my ISP does not give access to newsgroups, so I must use
Google Groups (or another web-based reader, I suppose). This group is
shown to me as "comp.databases.ms-access". Is this CDMA that people
continue to refer to simply an acronym describing
comp.databases.ms-access, or is it something else entirely? To me, CDMA
has always been meant as an acronym for a particular cellular telephony
technology.

Feel free to, as some apparently say, "plonk" me if you have this
capability.

Dec 8 '05 #25

P: n/a
V
<sa****@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:11*********************@g49g2000cwa.googlegro ups.com...


Oh! Thanks for the information.

I am definitely not a troll, and I am not trolling. I have a genuine
interest in improving the online tech community.
There is a Usenet culture. You have come here stating that this culture
is not yours and that you do not want to be part of it, but still you
give the impression that you want to participate is a fashion
disrespectful to others, and you insist that everyone else must accept
this behaviour.

That is offensive to most of the participants here.

If you are new in a place, what one does normally is discover the
customers of people already living there. That is not always easy, but
in most places those people are forgiving and will accept mistakes to be
made. And they neither expect anyone from being perfect. Some of those
people have a gentle way to explain mistakes, some simply ignore it -
what you would like most, and some do it the hard offensive way
unfortunately thereby not helping anyone not even themselves.

Don't let them offend you. Please participate and show us your interest.
And how come I keep seeing the same person "plonk"ing me?
You don't, except when they continu to reply on your postings after they
said to have killfiled you. Some people plonk too easily by the way. If
I speak for my own plonking strategy, when I say *plonk*, it is bye
forever, but also a *plonk* from me is very hard to get (I've killfiled
2 people during the last three years).
Assuming of
course that person was serious about putting me on ignore.


It is not that important to know. Getting into someone's killfile is not
a goal for a non-troll.

--
V

Dec 8 '05 #26

P: n/a
"Steve" <th*********@gmail.com> wrote in news:1134056074.173761.150380
@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
Unfortunately, my ISP does not give access to newsgroups, so I must use
Google Groups (or another web-based reader, I suppose). This group is
shown to me as "comp.databases.ms-access". Is this CDMA that people
continue to refer to simply an acronym describing
comp.databases.ms-access, or is it something else entirely? To me, CDMA
has always been meant as an acronym for a particular cellular telephony
technology.


Yep... typing the whole usenet group name could get very tedious... so many
times the newsgroup name is turned into an acronym.. such as CDMA for
comp.databases.ms-access (my first thought was the cellular technology
too... but then I thought what the heck do cell phones have to do with the
current topic....), or COLA for comp.os.linux.advocacy, or CLC for
comp.lang.c, etc.
Dec 8 '05 #27

P: n/a
sa****@gmail.com <sa****@gmail.com> did eloquently scribble:


You must all excuse me as English is my second language. What is a
troll? and what do you mean by "plonk?"
Troll: One who posts with the sole purpose of causing or inflaming an
argument, causing trouble.

plonk: The sound of someone landing in a kill file.
May god eternally damn anyone who replies saying I should look it up
first in a dictionary or I am posting to the wrong group! ;)


As I don't believe in god...
You should look it up and post to a more relevant newsgroup.
--
__________________________________________________ ____________________________
| sp****@freenet.co.uk | |
|Andrew Halliwell BSc(hons)| "ARSE! GERLS!! DRINK! DRINK! DRINK!!!" |
| in | "THAT WOULD BE AN ECUMENICAL MATTER!...FECK!!!! |
| Computer Science | - Father Jack in "Father Ted" |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dec 8 '05 #28

P: n/a
Oh, you "mean it" - <g>

well, I normally don't pay attention until someone "Really means it" -
<G>

JimA
==========
sa****@gmail.com wrote:
Pease read carefully:

I mean it. Please pay attention as you read the following.

(just to establish a base: paying attention as you read means that you
stop at the end of each sentence and reflect on what it is trying to
say)

===

Dec 8 '05 #29

P: n/a
sa****@gmail.com wrote:
(just to establish a base: paying attention as you read means that you
stop at the end of each sentence and reflect on what it is trying to
say)


No, this is what you do if you are not fluent in a language. Otherwise,
you read the sentence in context of the paragraph in which it is found.
Why you're demanding people adopt a James Joyce's style of reading
(referring to the the poor fellow's tendancy in writing to reportedly
spent hours pondering the impact of a single word after single word), I
have no idea.

And what the hell are you posting this to the Access group for? As far
as I can tell, you've been treated civilly here. If you want to ask an
access question, go ahead, we'll all do our best to help you.

BTW, you sound like the standard garden variety usenet newbie who feels
s/he must tell the whole blinking world it has to adjust itself because
you're here now. If I had a megaherz for every twit who behaved as
unstably as this, I'd have the fastest computer in the world.
--
Tim http://www.ucs.mun.ca/~tmarshal/
^o<
/#) "Burp-beep, burp-beep, burp-beep?" - Quaker Jake
/^^ "Whatcha doin?" - Ditto "TIM-MAY!!" - Me
Dec 8 '05 #30

P: n/a
Andre, thank you for the clarification. I, too, was wondering what cell
phones really have to do with Access.

I really don't wish to join in the argument that makes up this thread,
but Tim, I do wish to point out that using the proper word to indicate
precise meaning can be very, very important, especially when taken in
the context of a language that is not native to you. Personally, I
think carefully about each word and phrase before using them when I am
writing something important or when writing to someone I care a lot
about. This is especially important with email, as there is nothing
else to use to extract meaning except the words themselves.

Dec 8 '05 #31

P: n/a
Steve wrote:
but Tim, I do wish to point out that using the proper word to indicate
precise meaning can be very, very important, especially when taken in
the context of a language that is not native to you. Personally, I
think carefully about each word and phrase before using them when I am
writing something important or when writing to someone I care a lot
about.


You're talking about writing (and I agree with you). However, I was
talking about reading when one is fluent with the language. And in the
context of what I quoted from the OP.

My purpose was to point out that probably several million usenet newbies
have behaved just as tiresomely as the OP in that they feel the world
must adjust to them. They are they sorts of people who join an
organization and try to change things to their own liking long before
they really have any understanding of what then organization is about or
how it works. Also not unlike the standard ignoramus that travels to
another country and yells at people for not speaking his/her native
language.
--
Tim http://www.ucs.mun.ca/~tmarshal/
^o<
/#) "Burp-beep, burp-beep, burp-beep?" - Quaker Jake
/^^ "Whatcha doin?" - Ditto "TIM-MAY!!" - Me
Dec 8 '05 #32

P: n/a
but we all see you are fluent in rudeness. Try a little humility once
in a while.

Dec 8 '05 #33

P: n/a
Sorry, I meant
7 Don't have a go because I plagiarised your list
4 Don't express your feelings about me plagiarising your list
10 You really should be grateful that I plagiarised your list

but I guess I was failing on
11 Don't give obscure answers when a straight answer will do.

--
Terry Kreft

"Lyle Fairfield" <ly***********@aim.com> wrote in message
news:11*********************@o13g2000cwo.googlegro ups.com...
This confuses me:

"And when responding Lyle I respectfully draw your attention to items
7, 4
and 10."

But I could start with number 10, saying, I'd be grateful if you could
be more explicit.

Dec 8 '05 #34

P: n/a
> I am definitely not a troll, and I am not trolling. I have a genuine
interest in improving the online tech community.
Then post this to comp.online.community.crap
And how come I keep seeing the same person "plonk"ing me? Assuming of
course that person was serious about putting me on ignore.


I'm serious. I have made my life much happier recently by blocking several
posters who have never posted a useful answer, but post only about crap. I
would love to be able to have blocked this entire thread, but unfortunately,
Terry, Lyle, and a few others whose future posts I will likely need decided
to respond, so I will have to plonck (plonk?) selectively.

Plonck. (Hmmm - spell check suggests 'plunk') ...
--
Darryl Kerkeslager
Dec 8 '05 #35

P: n/a
In message <Xo*******************@news-server.bigpond.net.au>, "Br@dley"
<br**@usenet.org> writes
sa****@gmail.com wrote: How is your complaining vital to CDMA? We've gotten along fine so far
thanks.
Assumption.

1) Newsgroups have rules. Those rules in general are agreed upon by
the participants; if a poster follows the rules then they shouldn't
have any problems.

Correction: a newsgroup is a public forum. There are no rules.


Some groups certainly do have rules formed by the people who own the
group or formed by regulars.


Who appointed them ?

There are also basic rules for using
Usenet - those included in most ISP's acceptable use policy for example.
They are however ISP specific and seldom applied to particular groups
with fine granularity.

There are also accepted practices formed by the community to make life
easier for all.

So is the issue really you just don't like being told what to do?


No - seems to me, the issue is that (as a newbie ?) she could do
without being patronised when she doesn't follow accepted local
protocols for asking questions.
Cheers, J/.
--
John Beardmore
Dec 8 '05 #36

P: n/a


First of all, I am a male and not a female! Name is Sasan (note second
letter being A and not U). Nice to meet all of you.

Second, I am not a newbie when it comes to newsgourps.. I have been
using the usenet for 18 years now.

Thrid, I am glad to see this thread has turned into a discussion which
I hope will lead to adding my intended phrase into the FAQ for the
group.

Fourth, I see a few posts from the silent majority which is a good
sign.

Fifth, who is in charge of the FAQ for this newsgroup? We need to get
him involved in this conversation

Sixth, I would like to point out that I did look up trolling in a
dictionary, but apparently I didn't know which dictionary to look into
and your replies have led me to new sources for whch I am grateful.

Seventh, Did you all notice how even a question as simple as "what is
trolling" led to a number of posts prividing different perspectives?

Eigtht, I never said think about every word, but suggested that you
stop at the end of each sentence and think about its meaning. This is
the type of skill you need to do well in LSAT, GMAT, etc. etc. etc...
People who know this skill appreciate it, people who don't berate it.

Ninth, this effort is simply taking too much time for me. I hope we can
finalize soon by getting the FAQ maintainer involved and add my
suggested phrase in one form or other. Can we focus on suggesting
variations of my suggested phrase that would be reasonable to
everybody?

s

Dec 8 '05 #37

P: n/a
Now I'll have to add:
Don't ROFL!

Dec 9 '05 #38

P: n/a
In message <dn**********@coranto.ucs.mun.ca>, Tim Marshall
<TI****@PurplePandaChasers.Moertherium> writes
My purpose was to point out that probably several million usenet
newbies have behaved just as tiresomely as the OP in that they feel the
world must adjust to them.
Or at least that the world might be a better place...

They are they sorts of people who join an organization and try to
change things to their own liking long before they really have any
understanding of what then organization is about or how it works.


No - I think most of the just have a problem - perhaps one that they
don't have the experience so describe very well.
Cheers, J/.
--
John Beardmore
Dec 9 '05 #39

P: n/a
Comments inline.
<sa****@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:11*********************@g47g2000cwa.googlegro ups.com...
<snip> Fourth, I see a few posts from the silent majority which is a good
sign. How do you know what the silent majority are thinking? If they don't express
what they're saying then no-one knows what they're thinking.

Fifth, who is in charge of the FAQ for this newsgroup? We need to get
him involved in this conversation
You mention "This Newsgroup". You've cross posted to 3 newsgroups here and
each will have their own FAQs. Here's the charter for CDMA
(comp.databases.ms-access)
http://www.mvps.org/access/netiquette.htm
Second, I am not a newbie when it comes to newsgourps.. I have been
using the usenet for 18 years now.

Sixth, I would like to point out that I did look up trolling in a
dictionary, but apparently I didn't know which dictionary to look into
and your replies have led me to new sources for whch I am grateful.


If you've been using the usenet for 18 years, you should know by now what a
troll is and how they purposely try to disrupt usenet.

Jeff
Dec 9 '05 #40

P: n/a
On Thu, 08 Dec 2005 15:12:46 -0800, sa****@gmail.com wrote:
Second, I am not a newbie when it comes to newsgourps.. I have been
using the usenet for 18 years now.


So you know what the following sound effect means, right?

*PER-LONK!!*
--
mark south: world citizen, net denizen
echo zn***********@lnubb.pb.hx|tr a-z n-za-m
"Take it? I can't even parse it!" - Kibo, in ARK

Dec 9 '05 #41

P: n/a
Jeff Smith <No****@not.this.address> did eloquently scribble:
If you've been using the usenet for 18 years, you should know by now what a
troll is and how they purposely try to disrupt usenet.


Indeed, he should also know that usenet is not "without rules".
Each newsgroup has its own rules AS DETERMINED by a combination of the
newsgroup's charter and the regular posters who define the newsgroup.

(Without people posting, a newsgroup is just a place for spambots to send
to, a desolate region, I've seen a few fade away like that...)
--
__________________________________________________ ____________________________
| sp****@freenet.co.uk | "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell BSc(hons)| |
| in | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
| Computer Science | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dec 9 '05 #42

P: n/a
<sa****@gmail.com> wrote
Please read below for my collective response
to recent posts on this topic.


I have responded, earlier, to some points raised by "sasan3". From the
suggestions in his original post, I infer that "sasan3" was either unaware
of the FAQ for comp.databases.ms-access, or had not read it, since civilty,
politeness, and helpfulness are already addressed at
http://www.mvps.org/access/netiquette.htm. Because they are addressed and
because that is what "sasan3" wants to see addressed, I see no need for any
changes to the FAQ of comp.databases.ms-access. I doubt sasan3's wording
would be any more effective than the existing wording. If he would not use
emotionally-loaded terms such as "megalomaniacs", perhaps his
suggestions/arguments would carry more weight.

(Note: I make no representation that I speak for anyone other than myself.)

Larry Linson
Microsoft Access MVP
Caster of a official vote FOR creation of this newsgroup back in 1993
Dec 10 '05 #43

P: n/a
[ comp.mail.sendmail excluded ]

In comp.os.linux.setup Larry Linson <bo*****@localhost.not>:
<sa****@gmail.com> wrote
Please read below for my collective response
to recent posts on this topic.

I have responded, earlier, to some points raised by "sasan3". From the
suggestions in his original post, I infer that "sasan3" was either unaware
of the FAQ for comp.databases.ms-access, or had not read it, since civilty,
politeness, and helpfulness are already addressed at [..]
(Note: I make no representation that I speak for anyone other than myself.)


Hi Larry!

It looks to me as if the OP's intention using a fresh google
throw away account was just to start some flame war looking at
the groups used to cross-post.

We (friends + me) have setup a newreader FAQ posted twice a week
to comp.os.linux.setup and a few others. I doesn't look that
different from the one you pointed out for your ng (your comment
about using the shift key is good!). ;-)

--
Michael Heiming (X-PGP-Sig > GPG-Key ID: EDD27B94)
mail: echo zv*****@urvzvat.qr | perl -pe 'y/a-z/n-za-m/'
#bofh excuse 100: IRQ dropout
Dec 10 '05 #44

P: n/a
> First of all, I am a male and not a female! Name is Sasan (note second
letter being A and not U). Nice to meet all of you.
Not sure how this is important in given context, but o.k.
Second, I am not a newbie when it comes to newsgourps.. I have been
using the usenet for 18 years now.
Honestly? And you _don't_ know what a troll is in Internet-speak? May I
assume you are new to English-language Usenet groups?
Thrid, I am glad to see this thread has turned into a discussion which
I hope will lead to adding my intended phrase into the FAQ for the
group.

Fourth, I see a few posts from the silent majority which is a good
sign.

Fifth, who is in charge of the FAQ for this newsgroup? We need to get
him involved in this conversation
I think the point has already been made and bears worth repeating that you
will be more effective by being patient and conforming yourself to the
group's way of doing things instead of trying to force conformity to some
ideals you may have. Many contributors on Usenet already have bosses and
layers of policies to deal with at work. The sense of community and
freely-given help/advice is outstanding in many Usenet groups. A clich
comes to mind, "Don't look a gift horse in the mouth"
(http://www.bartleby.com/59/3/dontlookagif.html). No one is obligated to
respond to a Usenet post. If someone does, be thankful for help offered and
don't berate what isn't exactly helpful. As much as possible, do learn to
'fish for yourself'. It will give you a sense of accomplishment and will
prepare you to give back to the community. Lurking is positively looked
upon; in other words, spending some significant time in read-only mode in
any particular newsgroup before posting. Search newsgroup archives if
available. Google Groups http://groups.google.com/ and Gossamer Threads
http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/ are two good starting points. It is
likely your question has been answered before. I'm still learning in many of
these areas.
Sixth, I would like to point out that I did look up trolling in a
dictionary, but apparently I didn't know which dictionary to look into
and your replies have led me to new sources for whch I am grateful.
You may find Webopedia (http://www.webopedia.com) and Wikipedia
(http://www.wikipedia.com) useful. See Webopedia's definition for troll
http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/T/troll.html (def. 1 in particular) and
Wikipedia's definition for Internet troll
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll. Another excellent tool is the
_define:_ keyword for Google searches. It helps locate word definitions
(e.g. define:trolling
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&l...ne%3Atrolling).
Seventh, Did you all notice how even a question as simple as "what is
trolling" led to a number of posts prividing different perspectives?
Not really. In fact, I think most if not all netizens
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netizen) familiar with English-language Usenet
groups would agree that Webopedia's definition for troll (def. 1) is correct
and succinct.
Eigtht, I never said think about every word, but suggested that you
stop at the end of each sentence and think about its meaning. This is
the type of skill you need to do well in LSAT, GMAT, etc. etc. etc...
People who know this skill appreciate it, people who don't berate it.

Ninth, this effort is simply taking too much time for me. I hope we can
finalize soon by getting the FAQ maintainer involved and add my
suggested phrase in one form or other. Can we focus on suggesting
variations of my suggested phrase that would be reasonable to
everybody?
If I were you, I wouldn't hold my breath. It's unlikely any FAQ maintainer
will add material more appropriate to Usenet conduct guidelines, and RFC
1855 already serves this purpose reasonably well in addition to any
individual newsgroup conduct guidelines. Anyone know if RFC 1855 has been
updated or replaced?
s


Hope that is helpful,

Ronald Nissley
Dec 12 '05 #45

This discussion thread is closed

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