where is the real VB group?

[aaron.kempf]

hey I went to Microsoft.Public.VB today and google says
You cannot post messages because this group is only available as an
archive.

I'd like to know where the real VB newsgroup is?
I surely don't really write VB.net for the most of the stuff i do.. I
do use Vb 2005 for some things and Vb 2008 for some things..

But I mainly write VB in Outlook, Access, Excel, Word and Visio.. I
just don't know where I can go to ask questions.

Thanks

-Aaron

[Harry]

<aa*********@gmail.comwrote in message
news:52**********************************@d4g2000p rg.googlegroups.com...

hey I went to Microsoft.Public.VB today and google says
You cannot post messages because this group is only available as an
archive.

I'd like to know where the real VB newsgroup is?
I surely don't really write VB.net for the most of the stuff i do.. I
do use Vb 2005 for some things and Vb 2008 for some things..

But I mainly write VB in Outlook, Access, Excel, Word and Visio.. I
just don't know where I can go to ask questions.

Thanks

-Aaron

Try microsoft.public.vb.general.discussion

[jaydeflix]

On Mar 10, 1:43 pm, "Harry" <[e-mail]:

But I mainly write VB in Outlook, Access, Excel, Word and Visio.. I
just don't know where I can go to ask questions.

Try microsoft.public.vb.general.discussion

Ok, Google Groups seems to have eaten my post, so let me try again...

For the application specific questions, I'd go to:
microsoft.public.outlook.program_vba
microsoft.public.word.programming
microsoft.public.excel.programming
microsoft.public.visio.developer
and, as for Access, I'm not entirely sure which Access group is
right.
--
-john

[jaydeflix]

On Mar 13, 6:28 am, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>
wrote:

* Unfortunately 'news.microsoft.com' does not make use of newsgroup
description strings, which could remove ambiguity by listing product names
in them.

Herfried, when I was there, I tried to get that fixed. Unfortunately,
there were some technical limitations that prevented it from an easy
solution and my budget was... well... I actually didn't have one. If
you really want to know the details, I can share them, but I don't see
it ever getting fixed, especially now that no one seems to care about
the newsgroups in-house. Scratch that. No one who is in any position
to do anything about the newsgroups from a meta standpoint care enough
about the newsgroups.

They killed microsoft.public.vb and it looks to me like 'vb is dead'.

Aaron,

They didn't kill microsoft.public.vb. That group never, afaik,
existed on the Microsoft newsgroup servers, and if it did, it didn't
last for long.

The microsoft.public.vb.* hierarchy, otoh, does exist and continues to
exist and, last I checked, was quite busy.
--
-john

[aaron.kempf]

wow. now i've never heard that one before.

so how can I create a group on microsoft.public without microsofts
approval?

ROFL

-Aaron

On Mar 13, 9:02*am, [e-mail] wrote:

On Mar 13, 6:28 am, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>
wrote:

* * Unfortunately 'news.microsoft.com' does not make use of newsgroup
description strings, which could remove ambiguity by listing product names
in them.

Herfried, when I was there, I tried to get that fixed. *Unfortunately,
there were some technical limitations that prevented it from an easy
solution and my budget was... well... I actually didn't have one. *If
you really want to know the details, I can share them, but I don't see
it ever getting fixed, especially now that no one seems to care about
the newsgroups in-house. *Scratch that. *No one who is in any position
to do anything about the newsgroups from a meta standpoint care enough
about the newsgroups.

They killed microsoft.public.vb and it looks to me like 'vb is dead'.

Aaron,

They didn't kill microsoft.public.vb. *That group never, afaik,
existed on the Microsoft newsgroup servers, and if it did, it didn't
last for long.

The microsoft.public.vb.* hierarchy, otoh, does exist and continues to
exist and, last I checked, was quite busy.
--
-john

[Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]]

<aa*********@gmail.comschrieb:

>wow. now i've never heard that one before.

so how can I create a group on microsoft.public without microsofts
approval?

The group 'microsoft.public.dotnet.vb.general' also exists/existed, but it
has (IMHO) never been created by Microsoft.

--
M S Herfried K. Wagner
M V P <URL:http://dotnet.mvps.org/>
V B <URL:http://dotnet.mvps.org/dotnet/faqs/>

[Cor Ligthert[MVP]]

Aaron,

I mean; I thought the gestapo died back in WW2.. lol

Will you explain what you mean with this when you are in a debat with
somebody from Germany.

Cor

[aaron.kempf]

so again.

If a newsgroup shows up - and it's not created by Microsoft - who was
it created by?

I mean seriously here.
Can I create a new group called

Microsoft.Public.GodsLanguage so that can be a folder where we talk
about VB?

I mean seriously if there is a group there; you have the audacity to
claim that it was not made by Microsoft?? Are you kidding me?

-Aaron


On Mar 13, 7:21*pm, "Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]" <hirf-spam-me-
[e-mail]:

<[e-mail]:

wow. now i've never heard that one before.

so how can I create a group on microsoft.public without microsofts
approval?

The group 'microsoft.public.dotnet.vb.general' also exists/existed, but it
has (IMHO) never been created by Microsoft.

--
*M S * Herfried K. Wagner
M V P *<URL:http://dotnet.mvps.org/>
*V B * <URL:http://dotnet.mvps.org/dotnet/faqs/>

[aaron.kempf]

I just mean that Microsoft shouldn't censor free speech anywhere.

File that away under 'Do No Evil'.

-Aaron

On Mar 13, 11:54*pm, "Cor Ligthert[MVP]" <[e-mail]>
wrote:

Aaron,

I mean; I thought the gestapo died back in WW2.. lol

Will you explain what you mean with this when you are in a debat with
somebody from Germany.

Cor

[jaydeflix]

On Mar 13, 12:26 pm, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>
wrote:

They didn't kill microsoft.public.vb. That group never, afaik,
existed on the Microsoft newsgroup servers, and if it did, it didn't
last for long.

wow. now i've never heard that one before.

so how can I create a group on microsoft.public without microsofts
approval?

A) Create it on a news server that allows you to create a group in
any hierarchy. Just don't expect it to show up on
msnews.microsoft.com, and whether it shows up on Usenet in general is
questionable as well.

B) Go back in time when there was a bug with Microsoft's NNTP
implementation that would create newsgroups based on what it received
in a Newsgroups: header of an NNTP message.
--
-john

[jaydeflix]

On Mar 13, 3:46 pm, "Armin Zingler" <[e-mail]:

as if I'd _EVER_ use that they block peoples' post when they criticize
Microsoft.

Block posts? *LOL* Then I would not have been able to post for years...
Yes, this is a newsgroup if you haven't noticed it yet, and a news
server hosts newsgroups. What's so funny with it?

Does Microsoft block posts?

Yep.

Does Microsoft block posts based on criticisms about the company?

Not while I was there. Do they now? Who knows.

That isn't to say that posts *containing* criticisms about Microsoft
weren't blocked, but that wasn't *why* they were blocked. You might
think it is nitpicking, but, sorry, it isn't. Think of it this way,
if a rule says 'Any posts with obscene language or personal attacks
will be removed' and a post contains a criticism of Microsoft using
obscene language, then that post gets removed. Not because of
criticism of Microsoft, but because of the obscene language.

But, again, that was policy when I ran the ship.
--
-john

[aaron.kempf]

I militantly disagree.

Microsoft blocks negative posts without swearing or attacks-- ALL THE
TIME.

That is a _FACT_ and I will not argue it.

-Aaron

On Mar 14, 11:27*am, [e-mail] wrote:

On Mar 13, 3:46 pm, "Armin Zingler" <[e-mail]:

as if I'd _EVER_ use that they block peoples' post when they criticize
Microsoft.

Block posts? *LOL* Then I would not have been able to post for years...
Yes, this is a newsgroup if you haven't noticed it yet, and a news
server hosts newsgroups. What's so funny with it?

Does Microsoft block posts?

Yep.

Does Microsoft block posts based on criticisms about the company?

Not while I was there. *Do they now? *Who knows.

That isn't to say that posts *containing* criticisms about Microsoft
weren't blocked, but that wasn't *why* they were blocked. *You might
think it is nitpicking, but, sorry, it isn't. *Think of it this way,
if a rule says 'Any posts with obscene language or personal attacks
will be removed' and a post contains a criticism of Microsoft using
obscene language, then that post gets removed. *Not because of
criticism of Microsoft, but because of the obscene language.

But, again, that was policy when I ran the ship.
--
-john

[aaron.kempf]

I'm sorry

'whether it shows up on usenet is questionable'?

That's ridiculous.

It does show up on UseNet; it does appear as if Microsoft.Public.VB is
dead.

Thus 'VB IS DEAD'.

I just think that it is ridiculous that they aren't consistent with
the way that they do this.
I mean.,. why would they have a dead rotting corpse on the front door
of Microsoft.Public.Vb?

Since VB is _STILL_ the worlds most popular langauge (according to
MSDN Magazine) I dont think that it makes sense for Microsoft to have
a corpse of a newsgroup at the front door for VB.

-Aaron

On Mar 14, 11:22*am, [e-mail] wrote:

On Mar 13, 12:26 pm, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>
wrote:

They didn't kill microsoft.public.vb. *That group never, afaik,
existed on the Microsoft newsgroup servers, and if it did, it didn't
last for long.

wow. now i've never heard that one before.

so how can I create a group on microsoft.public without microsofts
approval?

A) *Create it on a news server that allows you to create a group in
any hierarchy. *Just don't expect it to show up on
msnews.microsoft.com, and whether it shows up on Usenet in general is
questionable as well.

B) *Go back in time when there was a bug with Microsoft's NNTP
implementation that would create newsgroups based on what it received
in a Newsgroups: header of an NNTP message.
--
-john

[aaron.kempf]

ok.. so what you're saying is that 'someone other than microsoft' made
the group called 'Microsoft.Public.Vb'.

Just like 'someone other than Microsoft' made the group called
'Microsoft.public.SqlServer'.

Right?

I just think that it is a load of turd that Microsoft has a rotting
corpse on the front door at Microsoft.Public.Vb

-Aaron

On Mar 14, 11:22*am, [e-mail] wrote:

On Mar 13, 12:26 pm, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>
wrote:

They didn't kill microsoft.public.vb. *That group never, afaik,
existed on the Microsoft newsgroup servers, and if it did, it didn't
last for long.

wow. now i've never heard that one before.

so how can I create a group on microsoft.public without microsofts
approval?

A) *Create it on a news server that allows you to create a group in
any hierarchy. *Just don't expect it to show up on
msnews.microsoft.com, and whether it shows up on Usenet in general is
questionable as well.

B) *Go back in time when there was a bug with Microsoft's NNTP
implementation that would create newsgroups based on what it received
in a Newsgroups: header of an NNTP message.
--
-john

[jaydeflix]

On Mar 14, 2:04 pm, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>
wrote:

They didn't kill microsoft.public.vb. That group never, afaik,
existed on the Microsoft newsgroup servers, and if it did, it didn't
last for long.

wow. now i've never heard that one before.

so how can I create a group on microsoft.public without microsofts
approval?

A) Create it on a news server that allows you to create a group in
any hierarchy. Just don't expect it to show up on
msnews.microsoft.com, and whether it shows up on Usenet in general is
questionable as well.

B) Go back in time when there was a bug with Microsoft's NNTP
implementation that would create newsgroups based on what it received
in a Newsgroups: header of an NNTP message.

I'm sorry

'whether it shows up on usenet is questionable'?

That's ridiculous.

It does show up on UseNet; it does appear as if Microsoft.Public.VB is
dead.

Maybe you should consider the phrase 'whether it shows up on usenet is
questionable'.

That doesn't mean it WON'T.

It means it MIGHT NOT.

A usenet newsgroup is normally created with a particular type of post.
That post replicates throughout usenet and servers will either act on
that post or they won't.
If they act on it, that group gets created on that server.
If they don't, the group doesn't get created on that server.

Thus 'VB IS DEAD'.

I just think that it is ridiculous that they aren't consistent with
the way that they do this.
I mean.,. why would they have a dead rotting corpse on the front door
of Microsoft.Public.Vb?

They who? Who isn't consistent? What is it they are doing that they
aren't consistent? Where is the evidence that the newsgroup
microsoft.public.vb ever existed on Microsoft's newsgroup server?

--
-john

[jaydeflix]

On Mar 14, 2:05 pm, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>
wrote:

so how can I create a group on microsoft.public without microsofts
approval?

A) Create it on a news server that allows you to create a group in
any hierarchy. Just don't expect it to show up on
msnews.microsoft.com, and whether it shows up on Usenet in general is
questionable as well.

B) Go back in time when there was a bug with Microsoft's NNTP
implementation that would create newsgroups based on what it received
in a Newsgroups: header of an NNTP message.

ok.. so what you're saying is that 'someone other than microsoft' made
the group called 'Microsoft.Public.Vb'.

I am saying that
Either someone other than Microsoft made that group.
-or-
The group was created as the result of a known bug that was resolved
some 9 years ago.

Just like 'someone other than Microsoft' made the group called
'Microsoft.public.SqlServer'.

Right?

Possibly? Judging by the usage pattern of that group compared to the
groups that exist on msnews.microsoft.com, I feel pretty confident
saying that group wasn't part of Microsoft's official newsgroup
hierarchy.
--
-john

[jaydeflix]

On Mar 14, 2:46 pm, "Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]" <hirf-spam-me-
[e-mail]:

Nevertheless Microsoft can only remove messages from their own news servers.
If the message is posted to another news server providing the newsgroup,
Microsoft cannot remove it.

Not entirely accurate...

They can send out a cancel message for the post, if they wish.
Whether it will actually be acted upon by any news server out there in
the real world is a completely different story.

I pushed for cancel messages not to be pushed out, since I recognized
that the MS ToU and Rules of Conduct were applicable to only the MS
news server and the company should not be policing Usenet, but I got
pushback.

--
-john

[aaron.kempf]

I'm sorry that you don't believe me.
Microsoft blocks posts for whatever reason that they want.

They have blocked thousands of my posts; even when I was helpful and
not swearing.


On Mar 14, 11:27*am, [e-mail] wrote:

On Mar 13, 3:46 pm, "Armin Zingler" <[e-mail]:

as if I'd _EVER_ use that they block peoples' post when they criticize
Microsoft.

Block posts? *LOL* Then I would not have been able to post for years...
Yes, this is a newsgroup if you haven't noticed it yet, and a news
server hosts newsgroups. What's so funny with it?

Does Microsoft block posts?

Yep.

Does Microsoft block posts based on criticisms about the company?

Not while I was there. *Do they now? *Who knows.

That isn't to say that posts *containing* criticisms about Microsoft
weren't blocked, but that wasn't *why* they were blocked. *You might
think it is nitpicking, but, sorry, it isn't. *Think of it this way,
if a rule says 'Any posts with obscene language or personal attacks
will be removed' and a post contains a criticism of Microsoft using
obscene language, then that post gets removed. *Not because of
criticism of Microsoft, but because of the obscene language.

But, again, that was policy when I ran the ship.
--
-john

[Michael D. Ober]

Actually, I think more people block Aaron's email address than he realizes
and not at the NG server level either. I would be interested in what it is
about VB 2008 that makes him feel it's a better fit for VB 6 programmers
than VB 2005, however.

Mike Ober.
<aa*********@gmail.comwrote in message
news:b6**********************************@s12g2000 prg.googlegroups.com...
I'm sorry that you don't believe me.
Microsoft blocks posts for whatever reason that they want.

They have blocked thousands of my posts; even when I was helpful and
not swearing.


On Mar 14, 11:27 am, [e-mail] wrote:

On Mar 13, 3:46 pm, "Armin Zingler" <[e-mail]:

as if I'd _EVER_ use that they block peoples' post when they criticize
Microsoft.

Block posts? *LOL* Then I would not have been able to post for years...
Yes, this is a newsgroup if you haven't noticed it yet, and a news
server hosts newsgroups. What's so funny with it?

Does Microsoft block posts?

Yep.

Does Microsoft block posts based on criticisms about the company?

Not while I was there. Do they now? Who knows.

That isn't to say that posts *containing* criticisms about Microsoft
weren't blocked, but that wasn't *why* they were blocked. You might
think it is nitpicking, but, sorry, it isn't. Think of it this way,
if a rule says 'Any posts with obscene language or personal attacks
will be removed' and a post contains a criticism of Microsoft using
obscene language, then that post gets removed. Not because of
criticism of Microsoft, but because of the obscene language.

But, again, that was policy when I ran the ship.
--
-john

[aaron.kempf]

wow John.

I applaud that.

So how do you like the new and improved Aaron?
I'm being a little more civilized, right?

-Aaron

On Mar 14, 5:18*pm, [e-mail] wrote:

On Mar 14, 2:46 pm, "Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]" <hirf-spam-me-

[e-mail]:

Nevertheless Microsoft can only remove messages from their own news servers.
If the message is posted to another news server providing the newsgroup,
Microsoft cannot remove it.

Not entirely accurate...

They can send out a cancel message for the post, if they wish.
Whether it will actually be acted upon by any news server out there in
the real world is a completely different story.

I pushed for cancel messages not to be pushed out, since I recognized
that the MS ToU and Rules of Conduct were applicable to only the MS
news server and the company should not be policing Usenet, but I got
pushback.

--
-john