I am coming to the conclusion that Microsoft doesn't want you to use VB
..Net, based on my experiences. I've downloaded the Express version and
signed up for various support options etc. At every turn I have found the
whole experience frustrating, involving endless non functioning software,
broken links, incomprehensible and irrelevant information, examples that
don't work, help files that don't help and a complete lack of any sort of
reasonable support.
I see no benefit in trying to carry on with this effort, and intend to
reload VB 6.0 and use that instead. At least it works (mostly) and makes
sense.
H
Dec 26 '05
89  3758 
I want to know if people believe this. The "vb.net is terrible" kind of
stuff. It makes my hiring task much easier. Or the vb6 is better than
dotnet and OO is so difficult I cannot cope, but Ive been coding for 120
years and was the founder of the "B" programming language..
Yep... old B programming language Frisbee they used to call me. One day
they had a team of 50 programmers who couldnt figure out a task, took em 3
weeks but I went in there and in 10 minutes had the computer working just as
smooth as silk. Got a call from the United States president himself wantin
to thank me just as sure as youre listenin to me talk now...
Kind of reminds me of the time I designed a new rocket engine for NASA. Old
rocket propulsion Frisbee they used to call me. Why did you know that I
single handedly.....
If you are thinking about silly textbook examples OO, maybe.
But when (if) you move from VB6 to .Net and find that you can (e.g.)
just add
those properties and methods to the standard TextBox control you
always wanted, you'll eventually start using OO principles more and
more - to the point where VB6 will seem like a toy and you would
rather switch career than go back.
OO practices are used throughout the framework itself.
If you haven't been exposed to OO principles in your 30 years of
coding (by writing Java or C++ or whatever), it might take a while
to get it. If you have, but still don't get it, you probably never
will. Have you thought about retirement?
Now I say: Bury Classic VB. Let's have none of this compatibility
crap. Force people to move on.
But not to worry: There will still be a need for VB6 programmers for
years to come. Same as there is still a need for COBOL programmers.
Those old systems still need to be maintained until they can be
replaced.
/JB
PS: Just fanning the flames. Heh ... this thread is going to live for
a while. And when it dies, someone will eventually start a similar
one.
"Joergen Bech @ post1.tele.dk>" <jbech<NOSPAMNOSPAM> wrote in message
news:7e********************************@4ax.com... If you haven't been exposed to OO principles in your 30 years of
coding (by writing Java or C++ or whatever), it might take a while
to get it. If you have, but still don't get it, you probably never
will. Have you thought about retirement?
Maybe I'll go back to teaching computer science.
Yeah, sure that would be a positive thing to try. Now class, Microsoft
vb.net is confusing and it doesnt work. You probably wont be able to figure
out example 1.5 in the book, anyone? you did? everyone figured it out? show
me... okay class, ummm class dismissed.
Maybe I'll go back to teaching computer science.
"Paul Clement" <Us***********************@swspectrum.com> wrote in message
news:s2********************************@4ax.com... Yeah, but comments regarding what exactly? Examples would certainly help.
;-)
I downloaded "Microsoft Visual Basic 2005 Express Edition - Build a Program
Now!.pdf"
Throughout this book there are many links to websites with more
information - except they aren't links and you can't click on them. So OK,
I'll cut and paste the link text into the browser - except the whole book
has been created in some perverse version of Unicode and you can't cut and
paste it. And the same applies to the code samples in the book. Come on, who
thought this was a good idea? What was the point?
YAB (Yet Another Bug)
"Brad Rogers" <br*************@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:rFftf.68$0c.54@trnddc07... Yeah, sure that would be a positive thing to try. Now class, Microsoft
vb.net is confusing and it doesnt work. You probably wont be able to
figure
out example 1.5 in the book, anyone? you did? everyone figured it out?
show
me... okay class, ummm class dismissed.
I've taught C as a first programming language in 4 days, start to finish.
And yes, I did cover pointers and pointers to functions. I've taught all
aspects of Unix and shell script programming. I've successfully taught under
terrible conditions - like no working computers.
But YOU can't seem to comprehend the difference between the product and the
delivery. I still don't know if VBNet is any good because at every turn I am
hampered by Microsoft's lousy efforts to support the transition. It's like
having a mechanic work on your car who is great - but he scratches up the
body and leaves greasy stains on the upholstery and returns the car with no
gas and a flat battery.
I do understand product vs delivery. Thats why I stopped trying to assist
with technical aspects, because youre complaining about the 'delivery', but
I have yet to actually see the same problem. vb.net is complex, its massive
and its hard to understand.
Interesting analogy to the mechanic, but I havent experienced that problem,
and used vb.net since 2002. Some details are sketchy but they fix them. It
appears vb.net is one of the greatest accomplishments in Microsoft history. I've taught C as a first programming language in 4 days, start to finish.
And yes, I did cover pointers and pointers to functions. I've taught all
aspects of Unix and shell script programming. I've successfully taught
under terrible conditions - like no working computers.
But YOU can't seem to comprehend the difference between the product and
the delivery. I still don't know if VBNet is any good because at every turn I
am hampered by Microsoft's lousy efforts to support the transition. It's like
having a mechanic work on your car who is great - but he scratches up the
body and leaves greasy stains on the upholstery and returns the car with
no gas and a flat battery.
int main (void) {
int x = 3;
int y = 2;
y = x++ + x++;
printf("the answer is: ", y);
return 0;
}
what is y?
Hyperbole and sarcasm are no substitute for honest dialog. ; )
Randall Arnold
"Brad Rogers" <br*************@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:FJetf.29$yW1.14@trnddc05... I want to know if people believe this. The "vb.net is terrible" kind of
stuff. It makes my hiring task much easier. Or the vb6 is better than
dotnet and OO is so difficult I cannot cope, but Ive been coding for 120
years and was the founder of the "B" programming language..
Yep... old B programming language Frisbee they used to call me. One day
they had a team of 50 programmers who couldnt figure out a task, took em 3
weeks but I went in there and in 10 minutes had the computer working just
as
smooth as silk. Got a call from the United States president himself
wantin
to thank me just as sure as youre listenin to me talk now...
Kind of reminds me of the time I designed a new rocket engine for NASA.
Old
rocket propulsion Frisbee they used to call me. Why did you know that I
single handedly.....
If you are thinking about silly textbook examples OO, maybe.
But when (if) you move from VB6 to .Net and find that you can (e.g.)
just add
those properties and methods to the standard TextBox control you
always wanted, you'll eventually start using OO principles more and
more - to the point where VB6 will seem like a toy and you would
rather switch career than go back.
OO practices are used throughout the framework itself.
If you haven't been exposed to OO principles in your 30 years of
coding (by writing Java or C++ or whatever), it might take a while
to get it. If you have, but still don't get it, you probably never
will. Have you thought about retirement?
Now I say: Bury Classic VB. Let's have none of this compatibility
crap. Force people to move on.
But not to worry: There will still be a need for VB6 programmers for
years to come. Same as there is still a need for COBOL programmers.
Those old systems still need to be maintained until they can be
replaced.
/JB
PS: Just fanning the flames. Heh ... this thread is going to live for
a while. And when it dies, someone will eventually start a similar
one.
"It appears vb.net is one of the greatest accomplishments in Microsoft
history"
VB.net on *winforms* is great. Yeah, I felt like Homer at first: the
transition from vb6 to VB.Net 2005 was painful. VERY painful. But I was
determined to get it and when the light clicked, man... from that point on
it all just flowed. And I began to hate dealing with legacy VB6 code.
But then I tried to use VB.Net on asp.net web pages. And the pain began
anew... only thanks to Microsoft's paranoia of the internet also extending
to the intranet, I don't think THIS pain is going to ease. It's just gonna
get worse.
Greatest accomplishment? Sure-- with caveats.
Randall Arnold
"Brad Rogers" <br*************@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:lJhtf.50$713.6@trnddc01... I do understand product vs delivery. Thats why I stopped trying to assist
with technical aspects, because youre complaining about the 'delivery',
but
I have yet to actually see the same problem. vb.net is complex, its
massive
and its hard to understand.
Interesting analogy to the mechanic, but I havent experienced that
problem,
and used vb.net since 2002. Some details are sketchy but they fix them.
It
appears vb.net is one of the greatest accomplishments in Microsoft
history.
I've taught C as a first programming language in 4 days, start to finish.
And yes, I did cover pointers and pointers to functions. I've taught all
aspects of Unix and shell script programming. I've successfully taught
under terrible conditions - like no working computers.
But YOU can't seem to comprehend the difference between the product and
the delivery. I still don't know if VBNet is any good because at every turn I
am hampered by Microsoft's lousy efforts to support the transition. It's
like
having a mechanic work on your car who is great - but he scratches up the
body and leaves greasy stains on the upholstery and returns the car with
no gas and a flat battery.
int main (void) {
int x = 3;
int y = 2;
y = x++ + x++;
printf("the answer is: ", y);
return 0;
}
what is y?
It has EVERYTHING to do with .net!
I never encountered this clipboard prejudice against objects until I tried
moving the VB6 app in question to asp.net. I am told it's a security issue.
Security on an INTRANET app??? Restricting me from copying objects to the
clipboard in my own corporate environ??? Now just who is that supposed to
protect against?
Pure paranoia. And no, if I can't copy objects, it's NOT outstanding Cor,
sorry.
Randall Arnold
"Cor Ligthert [MVP]" <no************@planet.nl> wrote in message
news:ur**************@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl... Randall,
The pathetic Clipboard limitations are a prime example. I can't even
copy an html table to the Clipboard for crying out loud! That's just
unacceptable IMO, and I feel Homer's pain.
That has nothing to do with Net. Have a look at my explanation about this
in the thread of your problem.
The way you can use the clipboard in not Web applications is outstanding
in Net.
Cor
"Randall Arnold" <rg******@cathartis.com_> wrote in message
news:uw**************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl... It has EVERYTHING to do with .net!
I never encountered this clipboard prejudice against objects until I tried
moving the VB6 app in question to asp.net. I am told it's a security
issue. Security on an INTRANET app??? Restricting me from copying objects
to the clipboard in my own corporate environ??? Now just who is that
supposed to protect against?
Pure paranoia. And no, if I can't copy objects, it's NOT outstanding Cor,
sorry.
Security is an excuse that has worked well for the current US
administration. You can translate it as, "We just don't wanna"!
Randall, It has EVERYTHING to do with .net!
I never encountered this clipboard prejudice against objects until I tried
moving the VB6 app in question to asp.net.
If you did use the IIS class from VB6, you would have the same problems.
The problem is just that the complete system of the client becomes more and
more closed from the InterNet side, you are not the only one with this
problem.
..Net does not mean Internet it uses only in a lot of cases the same
philosophy. (Hopefully never all those security limitations).
Cor
Aha, this must be part of the problem, the Bush white house is so bad,
Microsoft is so bad... I see the pattern now. Microsoft's products needed
improvement in security? So they put effort to solving the problem. The US
administration also saw a need for security, since it was so lacking? And we
have massive efforts to fix that security. But to some, you just cant win,
Microsoft is now paranoid, and how dare the US admin spy on terrorists.
Some people would complain that there was nothing to complain about. Pure paranoia. And no, if I can't copy objects, it's NOT outstanding
Cor, sorry.
Security is an excuse that has worked well for the current US
administration. You can translate it as, "We just don't wanna"!
Sometimes reflection helps those who are sarcastic and hyperbolic to realize
dialog has failed.
Since new years was approaching and everyone watches the Twilight Zone
marathon, people should know who Frisbee is.
"Randall Arnold" <rg******@cathartis.com_> wrote in message
news:e6**************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl... Hyperbole and sarcasm are no substitute for honest dialog. ; )
Randall Arnold
"Brad Rogers" <br*************@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:FJetf.29$yW1.14@trnddc05...I want to know if people believe this. The "vb.net is terrible" kind of
stuff. It makes my hiring task much easier. Or the vb6 is better than
dotnet and OO is so difficult I cannot cope, but Ive been coding for 120
years and was the founder of the "B" programming language..
Yep... old B programming language Frisbee they used to call me. One day
they had a team of 50 programmers who couldnt figure out a task, took em
3 weeks but I went in there and in 10 minutes had the computer working
just as
smooth as silk. Got a call from the United States president himself
wantin
to thank me just as sure as youre listenin to me talk now...
Kind of reminds me of the time I designed a new rocket engine for NASA.
Old
rocket propulsion Frisbee they used to call me. Why did you know that I
single handedly.....
If you are thinking about silly textbook examples OO, maybe.
But when (if) you move from VB6 to .Net and find that you can (e.g.)
just add
those properties and methods to the standard TextBox control you
always wanted, you'll eventually start using OO principles more and
more - to the point where VB6 will seem like a toy and you would
rather switch career than go back.
OO practices are used throughout the framework itself.
If you haven't been exposed to OO principles in your 30 years of
coding (by writing Java or C++ or whatever), it might take a while
to get it. If you have, but still don't get it, you probably never
will. Have you thought about retirement?
Now I say: Bury Classic VB. Let's have none of this compatibility
crap. Force people to move on.
But not to worry: There will still be a need for VB6 programmers for
years to come. Same as there is still a need for COBOL programmers.
Those old systems still need to be maintained until they can be
replaced.
/JB
PS: Just fanning the flames. Heh ... this thread is going to live for
a while. And when it dies, someone will eventually start a similar
one.
I came to this newsgroup to serve man (sorry, I meant vb.net
developers)
/JB
On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 19:23:35 GMT, "Brad Rogers"
<br*************@yahoo.com> wrote: Sometimes reflection helps those who are sarcastic and hyperbolic to realize
dialog has failed.
Since new years was approaching and everyone watches the Twilight Zone
marathon, people should know who Frisbee is.
"Randall Arnold" <rg******@cathartis.com_> wrote in message
news:e6**************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl... Hyperbole and sarcasm are no substitute for honest dialog. ; )
Randall Arnold
"Brad Rogers" <br*************@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:FJetf.29$yW1.14@trnddc05... >I want to know if people believe this. The "vb.net is terrible" kind of
> stuff. It makes my hiring task much easier. Or the vb6 is better than
> dotnet and OO is so difficult I cannot cope, but Ive been coding for 120
> years and was the founder of the "B" programming language..
>
> Yep... old B programming language Frisbee they used to call me. One day
> they had a team of 50 programmers who couldnt figure out a task, took em3 > weeks but I went in there and in 10 minutes had the computer workingjust > as
> smooth as silk. Got a call from the United States president himself
> wantin
> to thank me just as sure as youre listenin to me talk now...
>
> Kind of reminds me of the time I designed a new rocket engine for NASA.
> Old
> rocket propulsion Frisbee they used to call me. Why did you know that I
> single handedly.....
>
>
>
>
>>
>> If you are thinking about silly textbook examples OO, maybe.
>>
>> But when (if) you move from VB6 to .Net and find that you can (e.g.)
>> just add
>> those properties and methods to the standard TextBox control you
>> always wanted, you'll eventually start using OO principles more and
>> more - to the point where VB6 will seem like a toy and you would
>> rather switch career than go back.
>>
>> OO practices are used throughout the framework itself.
>>
>> If you haven't been exposed to OO principles in your 30 years of
>> coding (by writing Java or C++ or whatever), it might take a while
>> to get it. If you have, but still don't get it, you probably never
>> will. Have you thought about retirement?
>>
>
>>
>> Now I say: Bury Classic VB. Let's have none of this compatibility
>> crap. Force people to move on.
>>
>> But not to worry: There will still be a need for VB6 programmers for
>> years to come. Same as there is still a need for COBOL programmers.
>> Those old systems still need to be maintained until they can be
>> replaced.
>>
>> /JB
>>
>> PS: Just fanning the flames. Heh ... this thread is going to live for
>> a while. And when it dies, someone will eventually start a similar
>> one.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
"Brad Rogers" <br*************@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:s2fuf.32579$zJ3.19013@trnddc04... Aha, this must be part of the problem, the Bush white house is so bad,
Microsoft is so bad... I see the pattern now. Microsoft's products needed
improvement in security? So they put effort to solving the problem. The
US
administration also saw a need for security, since it was so lacking? And
we
have massive efforts to fix that security. But to some, you just cant
win,
Microsoft is now paranoid, and how dare the US admin spy on terrorists.
Some people would complain that there was nothing to complain about.
The concept of "tongue in cheek" escapes you somehow?
Tongue in cheek? I never knew what that meant but if its that youre kidding?
great. So then you actually DO support the Bush Admin? Thats great.
I like to give credit where its due, there is a lot that I dont know about
in politics, but do know when to trust a good leader (Bush). And do
recognize Microsoft makes spectacular products, its a great time to be
coding.
I propose a toast in this time of New Year celebration, for success and
increasing prosperity
"Homer J Simpson" <no****@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:ekhuf.28514$m05.20960@clgrps12...
"Brad Rogers" <br*************@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:s2fuf.32579$zJ3.19013@trnddc04...
Aha, this must be part of the problem, the Bush white house is so bad,
Microsoft is so bad... I see the pattern now. Microsoft's products
needed improvement in security? So they put effort to solving the problem. The
US
administration also saw a need for security, since it was so lacking?
And we
have massive efforts to fix that security. But to some, you just cant
win,
Microsoft is now paranoid, and how dare the US admin spy on terrorists.
Some people would complain that there was nothing to complain about.
The concept of "tongue in cheek" escapes you somehow?
"Brad Rogers" <br*************@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:dRluf.89$Uf7.9@trnddc01... Tongue in cheek? I never knew what that meant but if its that youre
kidding?
great. So then you actually DO support the Bush Admin? Thats great.
I like to give credit where its due, there is a lot that I dont know about
in politics, but do know when to trust a good leader (Bush). And do
recognize Microsoft makes spectacular products, its a great time to be
coding.
Obviously you also go to Dr. Nick Riviera rather than to Dr. Julius Hibbert
for your mental health needs.
Aha! So you dont support the pres... Anyone who isnt in lockstep with the
accuse and hide left is "crazy". got it.
Besides Dr Nick makes some good points sometimes, where that Julius guy just
laughs, I dont like that.
"Homer J Simpson" <no****@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:mXluf.36936$OU5.31393@clgrps13...
"Brad Rogers" <br*************@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:dRluf.89$Uf7.9@trnddc01... Tongue in cheek? I never knew what that meant but if its that youre
kidding?
great. So then you actually DO support the Bush Admin? Thats great.
I like to give credit where its due, there is a lot that I dont know
about in politics, but do know when to trust a good leader (Bush). And do
recognize Microsoft makes spectacular products, its a great time to be
coding.
Obviously you also go to Dr. Nick Riviera rather than to Dr. Julius
Hibbert for your mental health needs.
You missed my point for sure. I'm saying security shouldn't be locked down
so tight for intranets IMO. I should at least have the option to open up
capabilities if I'm writing for a secure environment. But MS has chosen to
lock it down across the board, out of the box, and then we must jump through
numerous hoops to get our intranet apps semi-functional. THAT is paranoia.
And I'm still trying to find all the hoops, much less figure out just where
else Microsoft's documentation is incomplete, incorrect or just flat
missing.
And I note you are also resorting to childish sarcasm and hyperbole once
again, Brad. Is that the only mode of dialog you know?
Randall Arnold
"Brad Rogers" <br*************@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:s2fuf.32579$zJ3.19013@trnddc04... Aha, this must be part of the problem, the Bush white house is so bad,
Microsoft is so bad... I see the pattern now. Microsoft's products needed
improvement in security? So they put effort to solving the problem. The
US
administration also saw a need for security, since it was so lacking? And
we
have massive efforts to fix that security. But to some, you just cant
win,
Microsoft is now paranoid, and how dare the US admin spy on terrorists.
Some people would complain that there was nothing to complain about.
> Pure paranoia. And no, if I can't copy objects, it's NOT outstanding Cor, > sorry.
Security is an excuse that has worked well for the current US
administration. You can translate it as, "We just don't wanna"!
Either you're out to bait or just flat delusional...just like Bush, one of
the absolute WORST leaders the US has ever suffered.
As for Microsoft, they do make decent products, but the support could sure
be better.
Randall Arnold
"Brad Rogers" <br*************@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:dRluf.89$Uf7.9@trnddc01... Tongue in cheek? I never knew what that meant but if its that youre
kidding?
great. So then you actually DO support the Bush Admin? Thats great.
I like to give credit where its due, there is a lot that I dont know about
in politics, but do know when to trust a good leader (Bush). And do
recognize Microsoft makes spectacular products, its a great time to be
coding.
I propose a toast in this time of New Year celebration, for success and
increasing prosperity
"Homer J Simpson" <no****@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:ekhuf.28514$m05.20960@clgrps12...
"Brad Rogers" <br*************@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:s2fuf.32579$zJ3.19013@trnddc04...
> Aha, this must be part of the problem, the Bush white house is so bad,
> Microsoft is so bad... I see the pattern now. Microsoft's products needed > improvement in security? So they put effort to solving the problem.
> The
> US
> administration also saw a need for security, since it was so lacking? And > we
> have massive efforts to fix that security. But to some, you just cant
> win,
> Microsoft is now paranoid, and how dare the US admin spy on terrorists.
>
> Some people would complain that there was nothing to complain about.
The concept of "tongue in cheek" escapes you somehow?
And anyone who isn't in lockstep with the namecalling right must be left,
eh?
Some of us are centrists, Brad. Libertarians. Independents. Party
agnostic. Etc etc etc.
People aren't obligated to fit into your simplistic definitions. Many of us
abhor certain politicians for our own reasons, especially when said
politicians violate the very principles upon which this great nation was
founded and then impugn others as "traitors" for daring to question the
status quo. Oh, and by the way: the founders were radical liberals.
Wake up. Orwell was right.
Randall Arnold
"Brad Rogers" <br*************@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Y9ouf.16285$yW1.2761@trnddc05... Aha! So you dont support the pres... Anyone who isnt in lockstep with
the
accuse and hide left is "crazy". got it.
Besides Dr Nick makes some good points sometimes, where that Julius guy
just
laughs, I dont like that.
"Homer J Simpson" <no****@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:mXluf.36936$OU5.31393@clgrps13...
"Brad Rogers" <br*************@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:dRluf.89$Uf7.9@trnddc01... > Tongue in cheek? I never knew what that meant but if its that youre
> kidding?
> great. So then you actually DO support the Bush Admin? Thats great.
>
> I like to give credit where its due, there is a lot that I dont know about > in politics, but do know when to trust a good leader (Bush). And do
> recognize Microsoft makes spectacular products, its a great time to be
> coding.
Obviously you also go to Dr. Nick Riviera rather than to Dr. Julius
Hibbert for your mental health needs.
I understand what you're saying, Cor-- it's just that developing an
asp.net/vb.net intranet app for the first time has been an exercise in
near-futility for me. Too many of the things I attempt to do are either too
difficult or actually impossible, and why? Because the *security model* is
what seems to assume .NET means intranet-- at leats if the solution is
deployed on a web page.
IMO, mush more thought should have been placed into this situation. I
should be able to tell the IDE (in this case, Visual Web Developer) that my
app is 100% intranet and see that suddenly much more flexibility and
capability is accorded to me. Conversely, if some or all of my app exists
on the Internet, then I'm perfectly happy with many of the restrictions put
in place. I just don't want restrictions where they serve no valid purpose.
Randall Arnold
"Cor Ligthert [MVP]" <no************@planet.nl> wrote in message
news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl... Randall,
It has EVERYTHING to do with .net!
I never encountered this clipboard prejudice against objects until I
tried moving the VB6 app in question to asp.net.
If you did use the IIS class from VB6, you would have the same problems.
The problem is just that the complete system of the client becomes more
and more closed from the InterNet side, you are not the only one with this
problem.
.Net does not mean Internet it uses only in a lot of cases the same
philosophy. (Hopefully never all those security limitations).
Cor
It doesnt matter what party a person belongs to, but being intellectually
honest DOES MATTER. Youre entitled to your own opinions but not your own
facts. If you dont agreee with me? I can respect that. But speaking of
namecalling, its the left that starts out with name calling, the right
discusses issues and facts. Monkey in the white house? comes from the
left. worst president ever? a childish and simplistic response to "lying
liars" like Al Franken, Michael Moore, Cindy whatzername and others caught
telling whoppers. Including "Bush lied" [fill in the blank] about the
war, about the economy, etc... Look in to those claims? what a suprise,
Bush never lied. does the left apologize? no, just more childish name
calling.
Traitors? I think there is a definition for the word, created long ago.
Its great we have a nation that can mock the sitting president during
wartime. But its a miserable failure to have major media outlets able to
slander and libel a sitting president during wartime, saying things to
encourage the enemy to "just keep trying" and defeat American Soldiers in
harms way.
Face it, the mainstream left only wants America to lose, the economy to
fail, any any progress made to be given back. The nation is a disaster, sez
the democrats... Come on, terrorists dont give up now? is the classic
opening dialog of most mainstream news shows. Bush is wiretapping
Americans? lets impeach him. Howard Dean was accused of being a traitor by
Mike Reagan a few weeks back, but why?? What did Reagan say?
I dont bait anyone, its all about facts. When a person cannot grasp
technical concepts then says what a failure the Bush admin is? probably
because the person ignored the facts? I make a parallel there, ignoring
technical facts, ignoring current events, inventing "doom" scenarios and
blaming Microsoft for being a success?
Its like Nokia, dont get me started on them and the political nonsense.
"Randall Arnold" <ra************@nokia.com> wrote in message
news:uu**************@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl... And anyone who isn't in lockstep with the namecalling right must be left,
eh?
Some of us are centrists, Brad. Libertarians. Independents. Party
agnostic. Etc etc etc.
People aren't obligated to fit into your simplistic definitions. Many of
us abhor certain politicians for our own reasons, especially when said
politicians violate the very principles upon which this great nation was
founded and then impugn others as "traitors" for daring to question the
status quo. Oh, and by the way: the founders were radical liberals.
Wake up. Orwell was right.
Randall Arnold
"Brad Rogers" <br*************@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Y9ouf.16285$yW1.2761@trnddc05... Aha! So you dont support the pres... Anyone who isnt in lockstep with
the
accuse and hide left is "crazy". got it.
Besides Dr Nick makes some good points sometimes, where that Julius guy
just
laughs, I dont like that.
"Homer J Simpson" <no****@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:mXluf.36936$OU5.31393@clgrps13...
"Brad Rogers" <br*************@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:dRluf.89$Uf7.9@trnddc01...
> Tongue in cheek? I never knew what that meant but if its that youre
> kidding?
> great. So then you actually DO support the Bush Admin? Thats great.
>
> I like to give credit where its due, there is a lot that I dont know
about > in politics, but do know when to trust a good leader (Bush). And do
> recognize Microsoft makes spectacular products, its a great time to
be > coding.
Obviously you also go to Dr. Nick Riviera rather than to Dr. Julius
Hibbert for your mental health needs.
That's just more disingenuous commentary from you.
The left and right both lie. Politicos from both sides mistreat their
constituents to put it mildly. Clinton lied, and whether you are
intellectually honest enough to accept it or not, Bush lies too. I find him
to be singlehandedly the most dishonest president in my lifetime-- which is
saying something considering Johnson, Nixon and Clinton's records of
dishonor.
I see you have been brainwashed by the right into thinking it is
unacceptable to "criticize a president during wartime". That is utter
claptrap. If anything, that is when a president should be held MOST
accountable, and that includes criticism that you arbitrarily deride as
"mockery". Your comments about the left wanting "America to lose" are
delusional. An objective person would know better than to entertain such
useless hyperbole. people on the left are as human as you Brad-- they just
have differing opinions based on the same reality to which you are exposed.
Their filters work differently than your rightward ones. And though they
are as misguided as you, they (and you) are still thinking, feeling humans
and thus deserved of respect for that alone at the very least. Your wanton
demonizing is naive serves no valid purpose.
If you actually were "all about facts", you would be willing to face the
facts about Bush that easily contradict your brainwashing. Instead, your
talk is cheap. You want something of those you oppose that you are not
willing to provide yourself. Pure partisan drivel. You are as bad as those
about whom you complain, whether the subject be Bush, Microsoft or whomever.
Your defenses are admirable in their tenacity, but pathetic in their content
and motivation.
Wake up, Brad. Orwell was right.
Randall Arnold
"Brad Rogers" <br*************@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:0nzuf.19944$z45.10294@trnddc02... It doesnt matter what party a person belongs to, but being intellectually
honest DOES MATTER. Youre entitled to your own opinions but not your own
facts. If you dont agreee with me? I can respect that. But speaking of
namecalling, its the left that starts out with name calling, the right
discusses issues and facts. Monkey in the white house? comes from the
left. worst president ever? a childish and simplistic response to "lying
liars" like Al Franken, Michael Moore, Cindy whatzername and others caught
telling whoppers. Including "Bush lied" [fill in the blank] about the
war, about the economy, etc... Look in to those claims? what a suprise,
Bush never lied. does the left apologize? no, just more childish name
calling.
Traitors? I think there is a definition for the word, created long ago.
Its great we have a nation that can mock the sitting president during
wartime. But its a miserable failure to have major media outlets able to
slander and libel a sitting president during wartime, saying things to
encourage the enemy to "just keep trying" and defeat American Soldiers in
harms way.
Face it, the mainstream left only wants America to lose, the economy to
fail, any any progress made to be given back. The nation is a disaster,
sez
the democrats... Come on, terrorists dont give up now? is the classic
opening dialog of most mainstream news shows. Bush is wiretapping
Americans? lets impeach him. Howard Dean was accused of being a traitor
by
Mike Reagan a few weeks back, but why?? What did Reagan say?
I dont bait anyone, its all about facts. When a person cannot grasp
technical concepts then says what a failure the Bush admin is? probably
because the person ignored the facts? I make a parallel there, ignoring
technical facts, ignoring current events, inventing "doom" scenarios and
blaming Microsoft for being a success?
Its like Nokia, dont get me started on them and the political nonsense.
"Randall Arnold" <ra************@nokia.com> wrote in message
news:uu**************@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl... And anyone who isn't in lockstep with the namecalling right must be left,
eh?
Some of us are centrists, Brad. Libertarians. Independents. Party
agnostic. Etc etc etc.
People aren't obligated to fit into your simplistic definitions. Many of
us abhor certain politicians for our own reasons, especially when said
politicians violate the very principles upon which this great nation was
founded and then impugn others as "traitors" for daring to question the
status quo. Oh, and by the way: the founders were radical liberals.
Wake up. Orwell was right.
Randall Arnold
"Brad Rogers" <br*************@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Y9ouf.16285$yW1.2761@trnddc05... > Aha! So you dont support the pres... Anyone who isnt in lockstep
> with
> the
> accuse and hide left is "crazy". got it.
>
> Besides Dr Nick makes some good points sometimes, where that Julius guy
> just
> laughs, I dont like that.
>
>
> "Homer J Simpson" <no****@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> news:mXluf.36936$OU5.31393@clgrps13...
>>
>> "Brad Rogers" <br*************@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:dRluf.89$Uf7.9@trnddc01...
>> > Tongue in cheek? I never knew what that meant but if its that youre
>> > kidding?
>> > great. So then you actually DO support the Bush Admin? Thats great.
>> >
>> > I like to give credit where its due, there is a lot that I dont know
> about
>> > in politics, but do know when to trust a good leader (Bush). And do
>> > recognize Microsoft makes spectacular products, its a great time to be >> > coding.
>>
>> Obviously you also go to Dr. Nick Riviera rather than to Dr. Julius
> Hibbert
>> for your mental health needs.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
By the way, Brad: I'd love to see you point out anywhere that Al Franken has
any of his facts wrong. While I often disagree with his approach, he's done
his homework. Your disagreement with the facts presented doesn't obviate
them.
But enough useless political effluvium, and back to the abject Microsoft
bashing. Anyone trying to explain reality to you is obviously wasting their
time.
Have a nice day.
Randall Arnold
"Brad Rogers" <br*************@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:0nzuf.19944$z45.10294@trnddc02... It doesnt matter what party a person belongs to, but being intellectually
honest DOES MATTER. Youre entitled to your own opinions but not your own
facts. If you dont agreee with me? I can respect that. But speaking of
namecalling, its the left that starts out with name calling, the right
discusses issues and facts. Monkey in the white house? comes from the
left. worst president ever? a childish and simplistic response to "lying
liars" like Al Franken, Michael Moore, Cindy whatzername and others caught
telling whoppers. Including "Bush lied" [fill in the blank] about the
war, about the economy, etc... Look in to those claims? what a suprise,
Bush never lied. does the left apologize? no, just more childish name
calling.
Traitors? I think there is a definition for the word, created long ago.
Its great we have a nation that can mock the sitting president during
wartime. But its a miserable failure to have major media outlets able to
slander and libel a sitting president during wartime, saying things to
encourage the enemy to "just keep trying" and defeat American Soldiers in
harms way.
Face it, the mainstream left only wants America to lose, the economy to
fail, any any progress made to be given back. The nation is a disaster,
sez
the democrats... Come on, terrorists dont give up now? is the classic
opening dialog of most mainstream news shows. Bush is wiretapping
Americans? lets impeach him. Howard Dean was accused of being a traitor
by
Mike Reagan a few weeks back, but why?? What did Reagan say?
I dont bait anyone, its all about facts. When a person cannot grasp
technical concepts then says what a failure the Bush admin is? probably
because the person ignored the facts? I make a parallel there, ignoring
technical facts, ignoring current events, inventing "doom" scenarios and
blaming Microsoft for being a success?
Its like Nokia, dont get me started on them and the political nonsense.
"Randall Arnold" <ra************@nokia.com> wrote in message
news:uu**************@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl... And anyone who isn't in lockstep with the namecalling right must be left,
eh?
Some of us are centrists, Brad. Libertarians. Independents. Party
agnostic. Etc etc etc.
People aren't obligated to fit into your simplistic definitions. Many of
us abhor certain politicians for our own reasons, especially when said
politicians violate the very principles upon which this great nation was
founded and then impugn others as "traitors" for daring to question the
status quo. Oh, and by the way: the founders were radical liberals.
Wake up. Orwell was right.
Randall Arnold
"Brad Rogers" <br*************@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Y9ouf.16285$yW1.2761@trnddc05... > Aha! So you dont support the pres... Anyone who isnt in lockstep
> with
> the
> accuse and hide left is "crazy". got it.
>
> Besides Dr Nick makes some good points sometimes, where that Julius guy
> just
> laughs, I dont like that.
>
>
> "Homer J Simpson" <no****@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> news:mXluf.36936$OU5.31393@clgrps13...
>>
>> "Brad Rogers" <br*************@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:dRluf.89$Uf7.9@trnddc01...
>> > Tongue in cheek? I never knew what that meant but if its that youre
>> > kidding?
>> > great. So then you actually DO support the Bush Admin? Thats great.
>> >
>> > I like to give credit where its due, there is a lot that I dont know
> about
>> > in politics, but do know when to trust a good leader (Bush). And do
>> > recognize Microsoft makes spectacular products, its a great time to be >> > coding.
>>
>> Obviously you also go to Dr. Nick Riviera rather than to Dr. Julius
> Hibbert
>> for your mental health needs.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
That's just more disingenuous commentary from you.
The left and right both lie. Politicos from both sides mistreat their
constituents to put it mildly. Clinton lied, and whether you are
intellectually honest enough to accept it or not, Bush lies too.
You accuse me of not being "candid"? not being honest? But aside from me,
you have asserted Bush "might" lie? Or DOES lie? If you assert with no doubt
Bush lies? Then you are required to. PROVE IT! Others such as myself take
such accusations very seriously, and would ADMIT any such lies, if they
existed.
To then accuse me and other honest people of being dishonest because we
"wont admit" Bush told lies as president? Youre also adding all mainstream
Jewish and Christian religious leaders who exemplify honesty. To show how
extensive your claim of "Bush lied" reaches? It locks in anyone who claims
to be honest being duty-bound to admit the truth, so anyone who partakes of
the lie is also dishonest. The 'religious right' and 'Christian
conservatives' typical of Pat Robertson? Are not openly, publicly calling
for Bush to apologize for being a liar. Why not? Maybe the truth is Bush and
VP Cheney have not lied? Now I really don't follow news stories or the
latest books. On 911, my opinion was that military action was needed, Bush
led the military and now in 2005/6 we have the leftist media trying to tell
me that they want to revise and extend their remarks from around 2001? And
the start of the war in 2003?? No way, I followed the war then because it
was important. What the left is saying today is not what happened a couple
years ago.
I find him to be singlehandedly the most dishonest president in my lifetime-- which
is saying something considering Johnson, Nixon and Clinton's records of
dishonor.
Johnson was a good "president" who would have went to war with Iraq. Kennedy
was the crook, protected by the leftist media, whom Clinton idolized. Nixon,
now that the swifties exposed Kerry and the left of lying about Vietnam? I
also believe the left has lied about Nixon with empty accusations.
a.. > I see you have been brainwashed by the right into thinking it is unacceptable to "criticize a president during wartime". That is utter
claptrap. If anything, that is when a president should be held MOST
accountable, and that includes criticism that you arbitrarily deride as
"mockery".
b..
c.. Brainwashed? You wish. I didn't say criticize, did I? Without even
looking, I probably wrote slandered or libeled the president, which isnt the
same. Criticism helps find solutions and its my belief that criticizing the
president, or Microsoft brings about realization which leads to progress.
d..
e..
f.. Your comments about the left wanting "America to lose" are delusional. An objective person would know better than to entertain such
useless hyperbole.
g..
h.. Don't say its useless hyperbole, because it's the absolute truth. Ive
watched parts of Secy of defense Rumsfeld make a speech, then hours later
hear nbc report on what he said? They misquote him. Then I noticed
something, the leftist media interviews democrats. They then accuse
republicans and get only them saying "Im innocent" then the reporter
finishes by paraphrasing what the republican said, twisting it to imply
guilt. They do this with everyone, interview the left, take a snippet of the
right then add accusations and innuendo. Very clever method to brainwash
people into hating Bush.
That's kind of advanced analysis, I evaluate code in detail and am careful
not to. ASSUME ANYTHING?!? So I apply similar standards.
a..
b.. people on the left are as human as you Brad-- they just have differing opinions based on the same reality to which you are
exposed. Their filters work differently than your rightward ones. And though they
are as misguided as you, they (and you) are still thinking, feeling
humans and thus deserved of respect for that alone at the very least. Your
wanton demonizing is naive serves no valid purpose.
c..
d..
e.. What demonizing? This is a perfect example, I have never called the
person names. I reserve the right to disagree with what a person SAYS?? But
do not aspersionalize the person themselves. The left typically makes horrid
and groundless accusations like Bush lied about the war, and when people say
there was no lie, prove it? The response is: oh, we cant disagree or we are
called traitors, you idiots on the right, youre insane, youre stupid, youre
cavemen, youre monkeys.
f..
g..
If you actually were "all about facts", you would be willing to face the
facts about Bush that easily contradict your brainwashing. Instead, your
talk is cheap.
h..
i..
j.. Yes, I want to know if Bush lied so I can point it out to everyone.
When I find Bush hasn't lied?? I point out people like Franken, Moore, Corn
and others have the burden to apologize. Franken was ripped apart by
conservatives and exposed as a liar, it was on foxnews (the only news outlet
that lets conservatives speak) and Frankens errors were made public, I don't
know them maybe Rush Limbaugh or other famous people do. Moore? He isnt in
the news as much after being called a fraud and liar by Dick Morris, former
Clinton advisor?? Former democrat??
a.. You want something of those you oppose that you are not willing to provide yourself. Pure partisan drivel. You are as bad as
those
b..
c.. Im not sure who you've spoken to in the past, but I wont waste time on
'drivel' or 'bologna'. I have respect for Bush who led the military into war
to protect the nation, and what does the left say?? We are losing, its
another Vietnam, it's a quagmire, we cant win, everything that's negative?
That's what the left puts in the news. I hear soldiers who complain that
what happens in Iraq is progress, but the news only shows or makes up
negative things?? That's reality, soldiers there who are saying NO!! the
networks are lying, they have some agenda. I point that out without
mentioning the soldiers and you essentially call me a liar.
d..
e.. The left talks about how many soldiers are killed in Iraq, as if when
they get to some number they can start impeachment proceedings, they
disrespect the soldiers and their deaths and that upsets me and every
rational person with friends and family in the military. The economy gets
better? Some democrat goes on tv and says the economy is the worst its ever
been, its just like 1929.
f..
g.. So who should seek intellectual honesty? Randall?? I think you and the
mainstream left who try to find errors where none exist.
h..
i.. about whom you complain, whether the subject be Bush, Microsoft or
whomever. Your defenses are admirable in their tenacity, but pathetic in their
content and motivation.
j..
k..
l.. Pathetic?? Being honest and defending the truth is pathetic to you?
Defending America is pathetic to you? Wanting freedom and democracy in the
middle east and making the world safer is pathetic to you? Randall you
should be honest and just admit republicans have better ideas and run the
nation and economy better. All the harping on lies or failures? Are just a
pathetic attempt to tell the American voting public: "we democrats don't
have ideas. But vote for us because the nation is so messed up and Bush
lied"
m..
n.. Oh everyone lies?? No Randall not everyone lies. Some of us have
standards and find lying morally reprehensible. Bush has not lied in office.
Be honest and admit that.
o..
p.. Can you point to anything the left media does or says about the nation
that is positive? Hopeful? Inspiring? NO!! NEVER! Its always doom and gloom.
Wake up, Brad. Orwell was right.
Randall Arnold
You misunderstood significant portions of my post. Not surprising, based on
your ill-formed and poorly-thought replies.
As for Bush lying, it's been adequately proven. As a sheep in the
brainwashed right, you simply choose not to accept it. Partisan sheep like
you, ironically, believe that all contradictions of their heroes are purely
partisan-based and that none have any merit. This is improbable and
illogical. But that's ok, Brad: the sheep on the left wouldn't accept that
Clinton lied, either.
Just keep your blinders on, though, and press on with the excuse-mongering.
God forbid you or any other ignorant extremist, left or right, wake up.
Randall Arnold
"Brad Rogers" <br*************@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:lnBuf.20007$z45.13066@trnddc02... That's just more disingenuous commentary from you.
The left and right both lie. Politicos from both sides mistreat their
constituents to put it mildly. Clinton lied, and whether you are
intellectually honest enough to accept it or not, Bush lies too.
You accuse me of not being "candid"? not being honest? But aside from me,
you have asserted Bush "might" lie? Or DOES lie? If you assert with no
doubt
Bush lies? Then you are required to. PROVE IT! Others such as myself take
such accusations very seriously, and would ADMIT any such lies, if they
existed.
To then accuse me and other honest people of being dishonest because we
"wont admit" Bush told lies as president? Youre also adding all mainstream
Jewish and Christian religious leaders who exemplify honesty. To show how
extensive your claim of "Bush lied" reaches? It locks in anyone who claims
to be honest being duty-bound to admit the truth, so anyone who partakes
of
the lie is also dishonest. The 'religious right' and 'Christian
conservatives' typical of Pat Robertson? Are not openly, publicly calling
for Bush to apologize for being a liar. Why not? Maybe the truth is Bush
and
VP Cheney have not lied? Now I really don't follow news stories or the
latest books. On 911, my opinion was that military action was needed, Bush
led the military and now in 2005/6 we have the leftist media trying to
tell
me that they want to revise and extend their remarks from around 2001? And
the start of the war in 2003?? No way, I followed the war then because it
was important. What the left is saying today is not what happened a couple
years ago.
I find him to be singlehandedly the most dishonest president in my lifetime-- which
is saying something considering Johnson, Nixon and Clinton's records of
dishonor.
Johnson was a good "president" who would have went to war with Iraq.
Kennedy
was the crook, protected by the leftist media, whom Clinton idolized.
Nixon,
now that the swifties exposed Kerry and the left of lying about Vietnam? I
also believe the left has lied about Nixon with empty accusations.
a.. > I see you have been brainwashed by the right into thinking it is > unacceptable to "criticize a president during wartime". That is utter
> claptrap. If anything, that is when a president should be held MOST
> accountable, and that includes criticism that you arbitrarily deride as
> "mockery".
b..
c.. Brainwashed? You wish. I didn't say criticize, did I? Without even
looking, I probably wrote slandered or libeled the president, which isnt
the
same. Criticism helps find solutions and its my belief that criticizing
the
president, or Microsoft brings about realization which leads to progress.
d..
e..
f.. Your comments about the left wanting "America to lose" are > delusional. An objective person would know better than to entertain
such > useless hyperbole.
g..
h.. Don't say its useless hyperbole, because it's the absolute truth. Ive
watched parts of Secy of defense Rumsfeld make a speech, then hours later
hear nbc report on what he said? They misquote him. Then I noticed
something, the leftist media interviews democrats. They then accuse
republicans and get only them saying "Im innocent" then the reporter
finishes by paraphrasing what the republican said, twisting it to imply
guilt. They do this with everyone, interview the left, take a snippet of
the
right then add accusations and innuendo. Very clever method to brainwash
people into hating Bush.
That's kind of advanced analysis, I evaluate code in detail and am careful
not to. ASSUME ANYTHING?!? So I apply similar standards.
a..
b.. people on the left are as human as you Brad-- they just > have differing opinions based on the same reality to which you are
exposed. > Their filters work differently than your rightward ones. And though
they > are as misguided as you, they (and you) are still thinking, feeling
humans > and thus deserved of respect for that alone at the very least. Your
wanton > demonizing is naive serves no valid purpose.
c..
d..
e.. What demonizing? This is a perfect example, I have never called the
person names. I reserve the right to disagree with what a person SAYS??
But
do not aspersionalize the person themselves. The left typically makes
horrid
and groundless accusations like Bush lied about the war, and when people
say
there was no lie, prove it? The response is: oh, we cant disagree or we
are
called traitors, you idiots on the right, youre insane, youre stupid,
youre
cavemen, youre monkeys.
f..
g.. >
> If you actually were "all about facts", you would be willing to face
the > facts about Bush that easily contradict your brainwashing. Instead,
your > talk is cheap.
h..
i..
j.. Yes, I want to know if Bush lied so I can point it out to everyone.
When I find Bush hasn't lied?? I point out people like Franken, Moore,
Corn
and others have the burden to apologize. Franken was ripped apart by
conservatives and exposed as a liar, it was on foxnews (the only news
outlet
that lets conservatives speak) and Frankens errors were made public, I
don't
know them maybe Rush Limbaugh or other famous people do. Moore? He isnt in
the news as much after being called a fraud and liar by Dick Morris,
former
Clinton advisor?? Former democrat??
a.. You want something of those you oppose that you are not > willing to provide yourself. Pure partisan drivel. You are as bad as
those
b..
c.. Im not sure who you've spoken to in the past, but I wont waste time
on
'drivel' or 'bologna'. I have respect for Bush who led the military into
war
to protect the nation, and what does the left say?? We are losing, its
another Vietnam, it's a quagmire, we cant win, everything that's negative?
That's what the left puts in the news. I hear soldiers who complain that
what happens in Iraq is progress, but the news only shows or makes up
negative things?? That's reality, soldiers there who are saying NO!! the
networks are lying, they have some agenda. I point that out without
mentioning the soldiers and you essentially call me a liar.
d..
e.. The left talks about how many soldiers are killed in Iraq, as if when
they get to some number they can start impeachment proceedings, they
disrespect the soldiers and their deaths and that upsets me and every
rational person with friends and family in the military. The economy gets
better? Some democrat goes on tv and says the economy is the worst its
ever
been, its just like 1929.
f..
g.. So who should seek intellectual honesty? Randall?? I think you and
the
mainstream left who try to find errors where none exist.
h..
i.. > about whom you complain, whether the subject be Bush, Microsoft or
whomever. > Your defenses are admirable in their tenacity, but pathetic in their
content > and motivation.
j..
k..
l.. Pathetic?? Being honest and defending the truth is pathetic to you?
Defending America is pathetic to you? Wanting freedom and democracy in the
middle east and making the world safer is pathetic to you? Randall you
should be honest and just admit republicans have better ideas and run the
nation and economy better. All the harping on lies or failures? Are just a
pathetic attempt to tell the American voting public: "we democrats don't
have ideas. But vote for us because the nation is so messed up and Bush
lied"
m..
n.. Oh everyone lies?? No Randall not everyone lies. Some of us have
standards and find lying morally reprehensible. Bush has not lied in
office.
Be honest and admit that.
o..
p.. Can you point to anything the left media does or says about the
nation
that is positive? Hopeful? Inspiring? NO!! NEVER! Its always doom and
gloom. >
> Wake up, Brad. Orwell was right.
>
> Randall Arnold
>
Randall,
Im not sure what or who youre replying to there, my response was well formed
and intellectual. Bush's lying has been contested but still never proven,
its you in the brainwashed left that believes it without any proof.
I challenge you to also claim the mainstream Jewish and Christian leaders
worldwide are equally as lying??
Yikes, dont want to touch that one, do you? When it comes to proof? Then
its not worth your erudite time, but I say again, I checked the claims of
Bush lying, I checked the Rathergate forged papers, I checked the claims
against Cheney. Interesting thing Randall, when people in the media or
anyone are lying? they have similar patterns and react in similar ways when
exposed.
The word "lie" and "liar" have defined meanings. The left being caught
falsely accusing Bush, now has the best defense of "well I just dont feel as
romantic as I used to because Bush doesnt give me confidence. When Bush
says the nation is doing better? well Im not, so he lied".
Or if the topic is on yellowcake/Africa? Joe Wilson was caught lying saying
VP Cheney sent him to Africa, do you care about that?? no.
Clinton lied under oath, he admits it. In the day (1990s) the leftist media
was spinning that "lying is a first amendment right to free speech". But
now with Bush? he didnt even lie, yet your side claims he did and the mere
accusation alone is good enough? Democrats are spiraling out of control,
further into confusion, all they have is accusation. No substance on
issues. No one has come forward with proof of Bush lies, and the left is
tired of talking about it, its just an accepted fact Bush lied. That kind
of demented, twisted gapingly flawed logic causes other failures in logic.
What if Bush wrote software and you were the SQA person? Oh, its all full
of lies, Bush lied in the software. But Randall, it runs, where are the
bugs? oh they are in there, trust me. where? oh, youre just brainwashed
into believing Bush. Show me a bug? I dont have to. you have to prove it
doesnt have bugs.
My email can be easily formed, youre most welcome to contact me and correct
me. Im okay with others being democrats, Ive got friends on the left. But
Im not okay with being called dishonest or unable to distinguish reality
from some extremist agenda.
I dont even care that much about politics and dont follow every issue, but
the Bush lied thing is something that bothered me, Im certain there were no
lies and no bugs in Bushes software.
"Randall Arnold" <ra*******************@nokia.com.> wrote in message
news:el**************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl... You misunderstood significant portions of my post. Not surprising, based
on your ill-formed and poorly-thought replies.
As for Bush lying, it's been adequately proven. As a sheep in the
brainwashed right, you simply choose not to accept it. Partisan sheep
like you, ironically, believe that all contradictions of their heroes are
purely partisan-based and that none have any merit. This is improbable and
illogical. But that's ok, Brad: the sheep on the left wouldn't accept that
Clinton lied, either.
Just keep your blinders on, though, and press on with the
excuse-mongering. God forbid you or any other ignorant extremist, left or right, wake up.
Randall Arnold
"Brad Rogers" <br*************@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:lnBuf.20007$z45.13066@trnddc02... That's just more disingenuous commentary from you.
The left and right both lie. Politicos from both sides mistreat their
constituents to put it mildly. Clinton lied, and whether you are
intellectually honest enough to accept it or not, Bush lies too.
You accuse me of not being "candid"? not being honest? But aside from
me, you have asserted Bush "might" lie? Or DOES lie? If you assert with no
doubt
Bush lies? Then you are required to. PROVE IT! Others such as myself
take such accusations very seriously, and would ADMIT any such lies, if they
existed.
To then accuse me and other honest people of being dishonest because we
"wont admit" Bush told lies as president? Youre also adding all
mainstream Jewish and Christian religious leaders who exemplify honesty. To show
how extensive your claim of "Bush lied" reaches? It locks in anyone who
claims to be honest being duty-bound to admit the truth, so anyone who partakes
of
the lie is also dishonest. The 'religious right' and 'Christian
conservatives' typical of Pat Robertson? Are not openly, publicly
calling for Bush to apologize for being a liar. Why not? Maybe the truth is Bush
and
VP Cheney have not lied? Now I really don't follow news stories or the
latest books. On 911, my opinion was that military action was needed,
Bush led the military and now in 2005/6 we have the leftist media trying to
tell
me that they want to revise and extend their remarks from around 2001?
And the start of the war in 2003?? No way, I followed the war then because
it was important. What the left is saying today is not what happened a
couple years ago.
I find him to be singlehandedly the most dishonest president in my lifetime--
which is saying something considering Johnson, Nixon and Clinton's records of
dishonor.
Johnson was a good "president" who would have went to war with Iraq.
Kennedy
was the crook, protected by the leftist media, whom Clinton idolized.
Nixon,
now that the swifties exposed Kerry and the left of lying about Vietnam?
I also believe the left has lied about Nixon with empty accusations.
a.. > I see you have been brainwashed by the right into thinking it is > unacceptable to "criticize a president during wartime". That is utter
> claptrap. If anything, that is when a president should be held MOST
> accountable, and that includes criticism that you arbitrarily deride
as > "mockery".
b..
c.. Brainwashed? You wish. I didn't say criticize, did I? Without even
looking, I probably wrote slandered or libeled the president, which isnt
the
same. Criticism helps find solutions and its my belief that criticizing
the
president, or Microsoft brings about realization which leads to
progress. d..
e..
f.. Your comments about the left wanting "America to lose" are > delusional. An objective person would know better than to entertain
such > useless hyperbole.
g..
h.. Don't say its useless hyperbole, because it's the absolute truth.
Ive watched parts of Secy of defense Rumsfeld make a speech, then hours
later hear nbc report on what he said? They misquote him. Then I noticed
something, the leftist media interviews democrats. They then accuse
republicans and get only them saying "Im innocent" then the reporter
finishes by paraphrasing what the republican said, twisting it to imply
guilt. They do this with everyone, interview the left, take a snippet of
the
right then add accusations and innuendo. Very clever method to brainwash
people into hating Bush.
That's kind of advanced analysis, I evaluate code in detail and am
careful not to. ASSUME ANYTHING?!? So I apply similar standards.
a..
b.. people on the left are as human as you Brad-- they just > have differing opinions based on the same reality to which you are
exposed. > Their filters work differently than your rightward ones. And though
they > are as misguided as you, they (and you) are still thinking, feeling
humans > and thus deserved of respect for that alone at the very least. Your
wanton > demonizing is naive serves no valid purpose.
c..
d..
e.. What demonizing? This is a perfect example, I have never called the
person names. I reserve the right to disagree with what a person SAYS??
But
do not aspersionalize the person themselves. The left typically makes
horrid
and groundless accusations like Bush lied about the war, and when people
say
there was no lie, prove it? The response is: oh, we cant disagree or we
are
called traitors, you idiots on the right, youre insane, youre stupid,
youre
cavemen, youre monkeys.
f..
g.. >
> If you actually were "all about facts", you would be willing to face
the > facts about Bush that easily contradict your brainwashing. Instead,
your > talk is cheap.
h..
i..
j.. Yes, I want to know if Bush lied so I can point it out to everyone.
When I find Bush hasn't lied?? I point out people like Franken, Moore,
Corn
and others have the burden to apologize. Franken was ripped apart by
conservatives and exposed as a liar, it was on foxnews (the only news
outlet
that lets conservatives speak) and Frankens errors were made public, I
don't
know them maybe Rush Limbaugh or other famous people do. Moore? He isnt
in the news as much after being called a fraud and liar by Dick Morris,
former
Clinton advisor?? Former democrat??
a.. You want something of those you oppose that you are not > willing to provide yourself. Pure partisan drivel. You are as bad as
those
b..
c.. Im not sure who you've spoken to in the past, but I wont waste time
on
'drivel' or 'bologna'. I have respect for Bush who led the military into
war
to protect the nation, and what does the left say?? We are losing, its
another Vietnam, it's a quagmire, we cant win, everything that's
negative? That's what the left puts in the news. I hear soldiers who complain that
what happens in Iraq is progress, but the news only shows or makes up
negative things?? That's reality, soldiers there who are saying NO!! the
networks are lying, they have some agenda. I point that out without
mentioning the soldiers and you essentially call me a liar.
d..
e.. The left talks about how many soldiers are killed in Iraq, as if
when they get to some number they can start impeachment proceedings, they
disrespect the soldiers and their deaths and that upsets me and every
rational person with friends and family in the military. The economy
gets better? Some democrat goes on tv and says the economy is the worst its
ever
been, its just like 1929.
f..
g.. So who should seek intellectual honesty? Randall?? I think you and
the
mainstream left who try to find errors where none exist.
h..
i.. > about whom you complain, whether the subject be Bush, Microsoft or
whomever. > Your defenses are admirable in their tenacity, but pathetic in their
content > and motivation.
j..
k..
l.. Pathetic?? Being honest and defending the truth is pathetic to you?
Defending America is pathetic to you? Wanting freedom and democracy in
the middle east and making the world safer is pathetic to you? Randall you
should be honest and just admit republicans have better ideas and run
the nation and economy better. All the harping on lies or failures? Are just
a pathetic attempt to tell the American voting public: "we democrats don't
have ideas. But vote for us because the nation is so messed up and Bush
lied"
m..
n.. Oh everyone lies?? No Randall not everyone lies. Some of us have
standards and find lying morally reprehensible. Bush has not lied in
office.
Be honest and admit that.
o..
p.. Can you point to anything the left media does or says about the
nation
that is positive? Hopeful? Inspiring? NO!! NEVER! Its always doom and
gloom. >
> Wake up, Brad. Orwell was right.
>
> Randall Arnold
>
I understand the concept of Freedom of Speech, but could you guys practice your political diatribes
somewhere more relevant please?
I used QBASIC, VB, and VB.NET my whole life. I really like it, and I don't
liek to have to work in another language.
But really: did you try alreaddy the Visual Studio 2005.NET? It's really
terrible! A missed oppurtunity, and a shame!!
"Brad Rogers" <br*************@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:KgVsf.126$MV3.91@trnddc05... Full of terrible bugs? May I ask if you do software design?
You referred to Microsoft or their product developers as "those idiots" ?
Are you just trying to pitch some open source product after saying you
know
what its like to use Visual Studio and its so terrible, etc?
I could use any IDE on the market. Ive checked out many of them but found
Microsoft to be the best, period. Best product, best support, in other
words, the best. So thats what I use.
Open source is fine for hobbyists or whatever. But methinks your bashing
of
Microsoft was done for things from around 10 years ago and the bashing
lacks
substantiation. If people want an open source product, they can find
them.
Advertising here by claiming Visual Studio is bad? In fact, which open
source are you guys plugging?
Ill check it and see if it can withstand the same scrutiny.
"Pieter" <pi**********@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl... But face it Brad: Visual Studio .NET 2005 shipped to early, and is full
of
terrible bugs, half-featered controls, etc...
"Brad Rogers" <br*************@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:dRluf.89$Uf7.9@trnddc01... I like to give credit where its due, there is a lot that I dont know about
in politics, but do know when to trust a good leader (Bush).
Now it's all clear to me why you are convinced that Visual Studio .NET 2005
is a great product :-D
On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 02:12:57 GMT, "Homer J Simpson" <no****@nowhere.com> wrote:
¤
¤ "Paul Clement" <Us***********************@swspectrum.com> wrote in message
¤ news:s2********************************@4ax.com...
¤
¤ > Yeah, but comments regarding what exactly? Examples would certainly help.
¤ > ;-)
¤
¤ Every time I fire up the environment it asks me to register, again,
¤ promising benefits. If I do register - again - I get yet another thank you
¤ email which points me to a webpage which seems to be totally irrelevant to
¤ VB .Net but I cannot get any of the promised benefits. And so it goes.
I wasn't able to reproduce this problem. Did you enter the registration ID (in VB 2005 Express)
provided during registration of the product?
Any chance you had a beta version of the product installed at some point?
Paul
~~~~
Microsoft MVP (Visual Basic)
On Fri, 30 Dec 2005 21:05:19 GMT, "Homer J Simpson" <no****@nowhere.com> wrote:
¤
¤ "Paul Clement" <Us***********************@swspectrum.com> wrote in message
¤ news:s2********************************@4ax.com...
¤
¤ > Yeah, but comments regarding what exactly? Examples would certainly help.
¤ > ;-)
¤
¤ I downloaded "Microsoft Visual Basic 2005 Express Edition - Build a Program
¤ Now!.pdf"
¤
¤ Throughout this book there are many links to websites with more
¤ information - except they aren't links and you can't click on them. So OK,
¤ I'll cut and paste the link text into the browser - except the whole book
¤ has been created in some perverse version of Unicode and you can't cut and
¤ paste it. And the same applies to the code samples in the book. Come on, who
¤ thought this was a good idea? What was the point?
¤
¤ YAB (Yet Another Bug)
Don't know anything about this eBook - it's not included with Visual Basic 2005 Express.
Paul
~~~~
Microsoft MVP (Visual Basic)
Yes I have VS2005 beta2 and notice the text on the main page has a problem,
there is a scroll kind of box on the right side, text is blanked out
depending on some random thing, scroll up/down to try and get text back
I had sample code trying to load, it said it must convert the file to
something to use on VS2005 so I click yes, it does something then says
error, cant open file and my VS2003 cant open it either
So there were some problems, but first I suspect operator error. Im hoping
to have time to really drive VS2005 around the block a few times, meanwhile
Im SURE that all you smart folks who find any bugs or issues are writing
them up with details on how to reproduce the problem and sending them to the
bug report email, right??
Its one thing to expect a "hello world" program to run correct the first
time, thats only what, a few thousand lines of ASM code?
But a massive enterprise like VS2005, who expects it to be bug free the
first time???? Its so big if it was spread out it would stretch from New
York to Los Angeles, thats VERY big. Its not going to be bug free. Who
expects their code that took 2 weeks to develop to be bug free?
Its in Beta form because... help me out here...
"Pieter" <pi**********@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:%2****************@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl... I used QBASIC, VB, and VB.NET my whole life. I really like it, and I don't
liek to have to work in another language.
But really: did you try alreaddy the Visual Studio 2005.NET? It's really
terrible! A missed oppurtunity, and a shame!!
"Brad Rogers" <br*************@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:KgVsf.126$MV3.91@trnddc05... Full of terrible bugs? May I ask if you do software design?
You referred to Microsoft or their product developers as "those idiots"
? Are you just trying to pitch some open source product after saying you
know
what its like to use Visual Studio and its so terrible, etc?
I could use any IDE on the market. Ive checked out many of them but
found Microsoft to be the best, period. Best product, best support, in other
words, the best. So thats what I use.
Open source is fine for hobbyists or whatever. But methinks your
bashing of
Microsoft was done for things from around 10 years ago and the bashing
lacks
substantiation. If people want an open source product, they can find
them.
Advertising here by claiming Visual Studio is bad? In fact, which open
source are you guys plugging?
Ill check it and see if it can withstand the same scrutiny.
"Pieter" <pi**********@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl... But face it Brad: Visual Studio .NET 2005 shipped to early, and is full
of
terrible bugs, half-featered controls, etc...
Fine, you just get upset because you didnt realize pres Bush is good as a
Visual Studio programmer?
"Mark" <m@ark.com> wrote in message
news:OQ**************@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl... I understand the concept of Freedom of Speech, but could you guys practice
your political diatribes somewhere more relevant please?
"Paul Clement" <Us***********************@swspectrum.com> wrote in message
news:f4********************************@4ax.com... I wasn't able to reproduce this problem. Did you enter the registration ID
(in VB 2005 Express)
provided during registration of the product?
Any chance you had a beta version of the product installed at some point?
I ran the purge software to remove all betas. I do still have the VBNet 2003
Standard installed.
However I did finally get the promised benefits. Still, I found the support
to be less than well implemented. I still am not sure about the product
itself.
"Paul Clement" <Us***********************@swspectrum.com> wrote in message
news:oo********************************@4ax.com... On Fri, 30 Dec 2005 21:05:19 GMT, "Homer J Simpson" <no****@nowhere.com>
wrote:
¤
¤ "Paul Clement" <Us***********************@swspectrum.com> wrote in
message
¤ news:s2********************************@4ax.com...
¤
¤ > Yeah, but comments regarding what exactly? Examples would certainly
help.
¤ > ;-)
¤
¤ I downloaded "Microsoft Visual Basic 2005 Express Edition - Build a
Program
¤ Now!.pdf"
¤
¤ Throughout this book there are many links to websites with more
¤ information - except they aren't links and you can't click on them. So
OK,
¤ I'll cut and paste the link text into the browser - except the whole
book
¤ has been created in some perverse version of Unicode and you can't cut
and
¤ paste it. And the same applies to the code samples in the book. Come on,
who
¤ thought this was a good idea? What was the point?
¤
¤ YAB (Yet Another Bug)
Don't know anything about this eBook - it's not included with Visual Basic
2005 Express.
It's a free download. The free eBook "Microsoft Visual Web Developer 2005
Express Edition - Build a Web Site Now!" has the same problem - ironically.
IIRC the C# book was OK.
"Brad Rogers" <br*************@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:OdTuf.3285$Uf7.2796@trnddc01... Yes I have VS2005 beta2 and notice the text on the main page has a
problem,
[...]
Its in Beta form because... help me out here...
Just for your info:
- I used the Beta 1 (more than one year ago) and it wasn't too bad
- Beta 2 was worse
- the Release is almost as bad as the Beta 2: you can't make a normal
application (a bit more than the Hello World) without having problems with
the Visual Studio...
It's jsut not normal that a program that has been hyped a lot, has been in
Beta for more than a year, is still such a pain in the ass. I never had any
problems with VS.NET 2003, but 2005 daily...
"Pieter" <pi**********@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ut**************@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl... Just for your info:
- I used the Beta 1 (more than one year ago) and it wasn't too bad
- Beta 2 was worse
- the Release is almost as bad as the Beta 2: you can't make a normal
application (a bit more than the Hello World) without having problems with
the Visual Studio...
It's jsut not normal that a program that has been hyped a lot, has been in
Beta for more than a year, is still such a pain in the ass. I never had
any problems with VS.NET 2003, but 2005 daily...
I do note that the 2005 seems to be more than a little different from the
2005.
As with Clinton, love him or hate him, you have to admit he's told a few
fibs and, more often, - put some wonderfully crafted, deliberately
misleading, spin on things.
Since you asked for an example, here's one that springs to mind:
Bush:
"The vast majority of my tax cuts will go to the bottom end of the
spectrum"
Analysis:
42.6% went to the top 1% and over 60% to the top 12.6%.
I don't see how that isn't a lie - or does it all boil down to your
definition of majority? Anyway, if you want more, may I suggest: http://www.bushlies.net/pages/10/index.htm
- as a source for more lies for you to debunk. http://www.bushlies.com/
- as a late Christmas present.
And http://www.uspoliticsonline.com/foru...isplay.php?f=4
as a good place as any to continue the rants. This thread has been closed and replies have been disabled. Please start a new discussion. Similar topics
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