Off Topic: The cost/time to learn VB.NET compared to experienced developer?

[Pieter]

Hi,

I know this is kind of Off Topic, but I think this is the best place to ask
this (if not, please tell me where :-) ).

The question is: What's the cost of having an existing (access) developer
learn VB.NET, compared to recruit a VB.NET developer with 1 or 2 years
experience.

I know it's not an easy question, and it's difficult to compare when bearing
in mind the quality of the code etc, the complexity of the applications etc.
But let's just consider it goes about a lot of small, simple projetcs.

Let's ask it like this: If an experienced VB.NET developer (2 years
experience) needs 4 years to finish 20 small projetcs. how much time would a
newby need to finish these same projects, the time of learning VB.NET
included?

Even if you don't have a clue, I would be delighted to have as many answers
as possible. In case you could me some (official) info of studies or
experiences about this, it would be great!

Thanks a lot in advance,

Pieter

[Cor Ligthert [MVP]]

Pieter,

The cost in money is in my opinion more the risks not to succeed than the
cost of the manpower.

Therefore if it is an important project, time related than I would never use
a developer with not experience in VBNet even if the projects are small. Or
there should be somebody experienced sit aside him to let him do things as
painting UI's and things like that to start with. (An access developer will
that part maybe even do nicer).

In fact is the newbie than only extra hands, who is learning partial things
and becomes doing that experienced. However the experienced one(s) should be
able to work like that, there are in my opinion a lot who are unable to do
or don't want to do that.

Let an Access developer start new with real VBNet projects as the only
developer is for me the same as madness, not because the knowledge of that
developer, however the change he has to make in thinking how to make a
program.

However, just my opinion.

Cor

[Pieter]

Hi Cor,

I do prefer myself to recruit an experienced developer, but the company
prefers to use existing access-developers and let them learn VB.NET. Because
it are all very small and simple projects, they won't fail, even with a
newbie (and I'm always there to give them some help).

The fact is, it isn't always easy to find experienced developers (I'm
responsable for teams in Africa), but I do want them to do an effort, so I
need some figures to kind of 'prove' recruiting an experienced person will
cost more (at least in flight tickets for me, hehe).
"Cor Ligthert [MVP]" <no************@planet.nl> wrote in message
news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...

Pieter,

The cost in money is in my opinion more the risks not to succeed than the
cost of the manpower.

Therefore if it is an important project, time related than I would never
use a developer with not experience in VBNet even if the projects are
small. Or there should be somebody experienced sit aside him to let him do
things as painting UI's and things like that to start with. (An access
developer will that part maybe even do nicer).

In fact is the newbie than only extra hands, who is learning partial
things and becomes doing that experienced. However the experienced one(s)
should be able to work like that, there are in my opinion a lot who are
unable to do or don't want to do that.

Let an Access developer start new with real VBNet projects as the only
developer is for me the same as madness, not because the knowledge of that
developer, however the change he has to make in thinking how to make a
program.

However, just my opinion.

Cor

[Carlos J. Quintero [VB MVP]]

If the projects are very small and simple, maybe you can try, but in my
opinion it takes about 1 year to master .NET (or Java, or any other huge
platform) and I would say that mastering it is a prerequisite before
attempting any serious migration to .NET.

--

Best regards,

Carlos J. Quintero

MZ-Tools: Productivity add-ins for Visual Studio .NET, VB6, VB5 and VBA
You can code, design and document much faster.
Free resources for add-in developers:
http://www.mztools.com

"Pieter" <pi**********@hotmail.com> escribió en el mensaje
news:e5*************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...

Hi Cor,

I do prefer myself to recruit an experienced developer, but the company
prefers to use existing access-developers and let them learn VB.NET.
Because it are all very small and simple projects, they won't fail, even
with a newbie (and I'm always there to give them some help).

The fact is, it isn't always easy to find experienced developers (I'm
responsable for teams in Africa), but I do want them to do an effort, so I
need some figures to kind of 'prove' recruiting an experienced person will
cost more (at least in flight tickets for me, hehe).

[Cor Ligthert [MVP]]

Pieter,

I do prefer myself to recruit an experienced developer, but the company
prefers to use existing access-developers and let them learn VB.NET.
Because it are all very small and simple projects, they won't fail, even
with a newbie (and I'm always there to give them some help).
You are not there to give some help, in that situation are you the one who
is doing it. And probably not one time however "tig" times. If you want me
to explain this than reply.
The fact is, it isn't always easy to find experienced developers (I'm
responsable for teams in Africa), but I do want them to do an effort, so I
need some figures to kind of 'prove' recruiting an experienced person will
cost more (at least in flight tickets for me, hehe).

That is your big problem, however including that you should be sure if you
want him to teach also, that it is somebody who is not to much focused on
"the best' because than you have as well no result.

However asking here what will the difference in Euro's is in my opinon
impossible. With the newbies you will have to recreate the programs probably
with the first change new and how do you calculate that?

One thing that you can use is that when the Access developers start, you
should demand, that they should not be allowed to go to their old project
when there is any change in those access programs needed, how important it
can be. Than there should be hired in new Access developers. Otherwise you
are guaranteed that they will never learn VBNet.

Again just my opinion.

Cor

[Mr Newbie]

I'd say 1 year to master .NET is a huge understatement. .NET ( Meaning all
its components such as C# VB.NET ASP.NET The Framework, XML in .NET Web
Services etc ) Takes a hell of a lot more.

"Carlos J. Quintero [VB MVP]" <ca*****@NOSPAMsogecable.com> wrote in message
news:uO****************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...

If the projects are very small and simple, maybe you can try, but in my
opinion it takes about 1 year to master .NET (or Java, or any other huge
platform) and I would say that mastering it is a prerequisite before
attempting any serious migration to .NET.

--

Best regards,

Carlos J. Quintero

MZ-Tools: Productivity add-ins for Visual Studio .NET, VB6, VB5 and VBA
You can code, design and document much faster.
Free resources for add-in developers:
http://www.mztools.com

"Pieter" <pi**********@hotmail.com> escribió en el mensaje
news:e5*************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...

Hi Cor,

I do prefer myself to recruit an experienced developer, but the company
prefers to use existing access-developers and let them learn VB.NET.
Because it are all very small and simple projects, they won't fail, even
with a newbie (and I'm always there to give them some help).

The fact is, it isn't always easy to find experienced developers (I'm
responsable for teams in Africa), but I do want them to do an effort, so
I need some figures to kind of 'prove' recruiting an experienced person
will cost more (at least in flight tickets for me, hehe).

[Pieter]

Yes indeed, but for simple applications you don't need to 'master' it..

Anybody any idea about this: If an experienced VB.NET developer (2 years
experience) needs 4 years to finish 20 small projetcs. how much time would a
newby need to finish these same projects, the time of learning VB.NET
included?
"Mr Newbie" <he**@now.com> wrote in message
news:uk**************@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...

I'd say 1 year to master .NET is a huge understatement. .NET ( Meaning
all its components such as C# VB.NET ASP.NET The Framework, XML in .NET
Web Services etc ) Takes a hell of a lot more.

"Carlos J. Quintero [VB MVP]" <ca*****@NOSPAMsogecable.com> wrote in
message news:uO****************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...

If the projects are very small and simple, maybe you can try, but in my
opinion it takes about 1 year to master .NET (or Java, or any other huge
platform) and I would say that mastering it is a prerequisite before
attempting any serious migration to .NET.

--

Best regards,

Carlos J. Quintero

MZ-Tools: Productivity add-ins for Visual Studio .NET, VB6, VB5 and VBA
You can code, design and document much faster.
Free resources for add-in developers:
http://www.mztools.com

"Pieter" <pi**********@hotmail.com> escribió en el mensaje
news:e5*************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...

Hi Cor,

I do prefer myself to recruit an experienced developer, but the company
prefers to use existing access-developers and let them learn VB.NET.
Because it are all very small and simple projects, they won't fail, even
with a newbie (and I'm always there to give them some help).

The fact is, it isn't always easy to find experienced developers (I'm
responsable for teams in Africa), but I do want them to do an effort, so
I need some figures to kind of 'prove' recruiting an experienced person
will cost more (at least in flight tickets for me, hehe).

[Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]]

"Mr Newbie" <he**@now.com> schrieb:

I'd say 1 year to master .NET is a huge understatement. .NET ( Meaning
all its components such as C# VB.NET ASP.NET The Framework, XML in .NET
Web Services etc ) Takes a hell of a lot more.

I tend to agree. However, it's not necessary that a Windows Forms developer
knows anything about ASP.NET...

--
M S Herfried K. Wagner
M V P <URL:http://dotnet.mvps.org/>
V B <URL:http://classicvb.org/petition/>

[Carlos J. Quintero [VB MVP]]

"Mr Newbie" <he**@now.com> escribió en el mensaje
news:uk**************@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...

I'd say 1 year to master .NET is a huge understatement. .NET ( Meaning
all its components such as C# VB.NET ASP.NET The Framework, XML in .NET
Web Services etc ) Takes a hell of a lot more.

Yes, to master all can take years, but we need to differentiate: The .NET
concepts (assemblies, reflection, interop, strong names, garbage collection,
etc.), the OOP techiques (inheritance, overrides, bases, overloading,
contructors), the VS.NET IDE and the .NET language of your choice (VB.NET,
C#, etc.) can be mastered in one year for the average developer (i.e., with
previous OOP programming experience) working on those things every day at
job. However, the .NET Framework Library is so huge that it can take years
to master or use all its potential, but you don´t need to do it: it suffices
to know what it's inside (let's say the assemblies and namespaces) and
what's not. So, when you need something, such as a webclient class based on
TCP/IP, you know it is there before reinventing the wheel. Some months ago I
was involved in a critical project using TCP/IP and sockets, and I was not
familiar with that, but I knew that .NET has support for those things so I
had not to use the Win32 API of winsock.dll. I bought a book on .NET TCP/IP
Programming and it took me some weeks to read only a few chapters to learn
the basics and code the TCP/IP part of the project (I event didn´t finish
the book). Just an example that you don´t need to master all the .NET
Framework Library beforehand...

--

Best regards,

Carlos J. Quintero

MZ-Tools: Productivity add-ins for Visual Studio .NET, VB6, VB5 and VBA
You can code, design and document much faster.
Free resources for add-in developers:
http://www.mztools.com

[Jordi Rico]

I knew nothing about .NET when one day came my boss and told me: 'You
have to do a new project, it has to be in .NET and it has to be
finished in four weeks'.
At least I knew OOP and after some initial difficulties, I could make
the project... It was 16 months ago, and now I see that project was
something quite good for me (despite of at that moment I suffered a
lot...) because I can now make big projects with very little problems
(and my doubts are fast answered here :) )

[Carlos J. Quintero [VB MVP]]

You and your boss were very lucky, because the proposal of your boss tells a
lot about him... I would start seeking another boss... ;-)

--

Best regards,

Carlos J. Quintero

MZ-Tools: Productivity add-ins for Visual Studio .NET, VB6, VB5 and VBA
You can code, design and document much faster.
Free resources for add-in developers:
http://www.mztools.com

"Jordi Rico" <jo*******@gmail.com> escribió en el mensaje
news:11**********************@z14g2000cwz.googlegr oups.com...

I knew nothing about .NET when one day came my boss and told me: 'You
have to do a new project, it has to be in .NET and it has to be
finished in four weeks'.
At least I knew OOP and after some initial difficulties, I could make
the project... It was 16 months ago, and now I see that project was
something quite good for me (despite of at that moment I suffered a
lot...) because I can now make big projects with very little problems
(and my doubts are fast answered here :) )