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VB vs. C++ vs. ???

hi, im 16 and been programming in VB.net for about a year, and am almost
certain that im going to major in CS in college...but i was wondering which
language should i be most familiar with if i do indeed go into programming?
ive heard great things about C++ and how powerful it is compared to VB, but i
havent gotten many opinions so i didnt kno if anyone had any opinions as
which language is best for all around programming, ex: gaming, simple
programs, security, internet, etc, thanks
--
-iwdu15
Nov 21 '05 #1
13 1741
At University you are there to learn general principles, which you should be
able to implement in ANY language (okay, most languages you come across).
Being flexible is much more important than having specific knowledge in CS.
Things change so quickly. One day you are a Microsoft Certified Algol
Developer, the next day nobody wants to use Algol and everyone is using C ;)

My advice is if you can write a "Hello World" application in C, C++, Java,
C#, VB.NET, Assembler, ASP, Perl, PHP, TSQL and know where the manuals are,
you are fit for a career in I.T.
"iwdu15" <iw****@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:0D**********************************@microsof t.com...
hi, im 16 and been programming in VB.net for about a year, and am almost
certain that im going to major in CS in college...but i was wondering
which
language should i be most familiar with if i do indeed go into
programming?
ive heard great things about C++ and how powerful it is compared to VB,
but i
havent gotten many opinions so i didnt kno if anyone had any opinions as
which language is best for all around programming, ex: gaming, simple
programs, security, internet, etc, thanks
--
-iwdu15

Nov 21 '05 #2
> Microsoft Certified Algol Developer

I was wondering what that MCAD certification was :-)

--
Peace & happy computing,

Mike Labosh, MCSD
"Musha ring dum a doo dum a da!" -- James Hetfield
Nov 21 '05 #3
iwdu

Small programs are mostly for issolated however complex problems and ask for
C, C++

Large projects needs mostly a lot of reusing existing code in a readable
way, don't go for that on a to low level. For that are by instance C# or
VBNet.

Just my idea

Cor
Nov 21 '05 #4

"iwdu15" <iw****@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:0D**********************************@microsof t.com...
hi, im 16 and been programming in VB.net for about a year, and am almost
certain that im going to major in CS in college...but i was wondering
which
language should i be most familiar with if i do indeed go into
programming?
ive heard great things about C++ and how powerful it is compared to VB,
but i
havent gotten many opinions so i didnt kno if anyone had any opinions as
which language is best for all around programming, ex: gaming, simple
programs, security, internet, etc, thanks
--
-iwdu15


You are far more likely to encounter C, C++ and Java as part of your CS
curriculum than VB.NET. Data structures courses, for example, usually expect
basic familiarity with either C++ or Java, depending on the university.
Where I teach, we offer courses in C++, C#, Java and VB.NET, but the C# and
VB.NET courses target non-degree seeking students who want to update their
skills.

FWIW, I don't believe there *is* one best language for all applications.
Each has it's strengths and weaknesses.

--
Peter [MVP Visual Developer]
Jack of all trades, master of none.
Nov 21 '05 #5
thank you guys for your input, i kno im still a year away from college, but i
didnt kno what i should b looking into for a language, now i see i shouldnt
focus on just one, but be able to write in a variety. and hopeing to open my
own software business, that would probably be the best bet. thank you for all
your input
Nov 21 '05 #6
ng
It is Microsoft Certified Application Developer.

Tom
Mike Labosh wrote:
Microsoft Certified Algol Developer


I was wondering what that MCAD certification was :-)

Nov 21 '05 #7
or MCSD
Mike Labosh wrote:
Microsoft Certified Algol Developer


I was wondering what that MCAD certification was :-)


Nov 21 '05 #8
"Supra" <su***@domain.invalid> wrote in message news:ZZ********************@rogers.com...
or MCSD
Mike Labosh wrote:

Microsoft Certified Algol Developer

I was wondering what that MCAD certification was :-)

That would be "Microsoft Certified SIMULA Developer"

--
Al Reid
MCSD, MCP, ASPCA
Nov 21 '05 #9
Hello iwdu15, hello Peter

Peter van der Goes wrote:
"iwdu15" <iw****@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:0D**********************************@microsof t.com...
hi, im 16 and been programming in VB.net for about a year, and am almost
certain that im going to major in CS in college...but i was wondering
which
language should i be most familiar with if i do indeed go into
programming?
ive heard great things about C++ and how powerful it is compared to VB,
but i
havent gotten many opinions so i didnt kno if anyone had any opinions as
which language is best for all around programming, ex: gaming, simple
programs, security, internet, etc, thanks
--
-iwdu15

You are far more likely to encounter C, C++ and Java as part of your CS
curriculum than VB.NET. Data structures courses, for example, usually expect
basic familiarity with either C++ or Java, depending on the university.
Where I teach, we offer courses in C++, C#, Java and VB.NET, but the C# and
VB.NET courses target non-degree seeking students who want to update their
skills.


As a student I just want to give my "full acknowledge" to that, an some
words:

Programming Language: ================================================

I think that for instance C++ is much more strickter as a language (in
means of typesafty) and you learn very much because there is no garbage
collection (at least in std c++).
Also, I think it is a very mighty language for OO programming. There are
things in C++ you can do which won't work in languages like C# (multiple
inheritance {I know it is dangerous, but if you know, it might be
usefull to have the oputunity}) or Java (the difference of virtual
non-virtual methods). Also the Template-Programming and Operator
Overloading Features are much richer in C++ (hm, okay, I don't know how
good the Generics in .NET 2.0 are, they in java are deffinitely not that
powerful).

So I would think that if you learn C++, you learn very much about
Programming, and than you don't have Problems with most of the other
languages. F.e. I started Programming in VB for a company before a month
with no prior knowledge, however it works {but it will always take time
to konw and use the library, at beginning you normally implement much
wich still is there for you...).

At last I just wanted to make shure I am not a C++ geek: I started
Programming Java (too with 16 ;) ), and learn C++ mainly at the unuversity.
Some additional words: ===============================================

However, as mentioned above, the language itself isn't the main Problem.
There are much more important things: learn to understand the OO
programming idears. It seams oviouse, but there are triks and idears
which are in my mind not that clear at first, and need its time. So
Design Patterns are a good thing to learn.

Data Structures are essential. If you become a professional Programmer
there are sitauations you can't always thake an Array or ArrayList, and
search with a for loop. Coosing the right data structure has a great
impact on your programming, and gives you much knowledge.

The general Programming paradigms: Currently I don't think its bad to
know how the main programming paradigms are working. It's not bad to
know how functional, logical, procedual programing works, and then how
OO programming and maybe aspect oreinted programming works (however I
know nothing about aspects besides the name ;) ).

For OO Programming i think its a good thing to learn UML and Object
Oriented Analysis and Design....

The idear of Test Driven Design is also something to learn
Conclusio of me: ================================================== =

You see there is much to learn besides of a Programming language to
become a good Programmer, however, without a good knowledge of a
language you don't have a idear how to really implement your idears,
wich is also bad.

I woul learn C++ because of the learning effect, wohever, f.e. C# and
Java are good languages too, and you learn a very nice "Top Level" view
on problems you may not get with C++ (C++ may be dangerous to: its low
level, and you can programm very "hack like" if you want. Something
thats harder in Languages like C# and Java).

But I would also start reading about Data Structures (is there any good
beginner book? I learnd from Sedgewicks [spelled right?] Books at the
University) and Object Oriented Design (there Design Patterns, elements
of reusabel Object Oriented Software form the so called GoF is the
reference, however, I don't thing its sooo good for learning, if you
start Java maybe Head First Design Patterns (and Head First Java for the
beginn) from O'Railly gives you a good Idear of OO)
FWIW, I don't believe there *is* one best language for all applications.
Each has it's strengths and weaknesses.


Also full acknowledge, just look for functional programming and
transformations like in compilers and XML, and compare it to C++ ;).

:)
Jörg

(Please execuse me my english, since I am very bad in spelling and from
Austria, so a german speeking person).
Nov 21 '05 #10
Joerg,

I think that for instance C++ is much more strickter as a language (in
means of typesafty) and you learn very much because there is no garbage
collection (at least in std c++).


That would be an argument to go for real machine language. However program
languages are evolving.

Because of the fact that the trend of your message is continuing the same I
answer the rest in a more general opinion about that.

In my idea is what you tell not based on OOP, however on limits of
posibilities in creating more abstract use of OOP features in the languages
C and C++.

That makes it needed to do actions on a lower more concrete level.

VBNet (as well as by instance C#) have placed that more away from the
hardware and let you use OOP in a more abstract way as it is intended.

As C did that in past in destinction from machine language or assembler
language. I will for the same reason idwt to tell to learn machine language,
however that gives in my opinion even a better insight how a computer real
is working.

I keep it by the arguments from Peter.

However, just my thought,

Cor
Nov 21 '05 #11
One of the typing/correcting errors in my text however real confusing
I will for the same reason idwt to tell to learn machine language,


I will for the same reason idwt *Not* tell to learn machine language
Nov 21 '05 #12
Hello Cor,

Cor Ligthert [MVP] wrote:
Joerg,
I think that for instance C++ is much more strickter as a language (in
means of typesafty) and you learn very much because there is no garbage
collection (at least in std c++).

That would be an argument to go for real machine language. However program
languages are evolving.

Because of the fact that the trend of your message is continuing the same I
answer the rest in a more general opinion about that.

In my idea is what you tell not based on OOP, however on limits of
posibilities in creating more abstract use of OOP features in the languages
C and C++.

That makes it needed to do actions on a lower more concrete level.

[snip]
Hm, nop, I don't thing so because of the followong reasons:
Nov 21 '05 #13
(first execuse me for the douple post, I hit the false button ;), ups)

Hello Cor,

Cor Ligthert [MVP] wrote:
Joerg,
I think that for instance C++ is much more strickter as a language
(in means of typesafty) and you learn very much because there is no
garbage collection (at least in std c++).
That would be an argument to go for real machine language. However program languages are evolving.
Because of the fact that the trend of your message is continuing the same I answer the rest in a more general opinion about that.
In my idea is what you tell not based on OOP, however on limits of posibilities in creating more abstract use of OOP features in the
languages C and C++.
That makes it needed to do actions on a lower more concrete level.


[snip]
Hm, nop, I don't thing so because of the followong reasons:

It is true that it is not nessesary for a programmer to really know
things like assembler, however, I thing it is important to get a good
idear of what a computer does.

I think that C++ is, if used right, a good thing between the
abstractions of OOP and the low level parts of mashine language. So you
can learn bretty much, and I don't agree with you that you can't learn
the basic principles of abstractions in OOP in C++, I think it is more a
problem of the teaching.

However it is true that especially for the beginning people are very
concened about there storage management in the programm. But you learn
to handle that, and you learn bretty good the rules of scoping and livetime.

After a while you even don't need very much pointers in C++, mainly
references and learn that also in C++ there is the possibility of
automatic lifetime management. (In the last programms I did with my
colleges there were nearly no news and pointer inside (1 or 2)).

However we used many of the OOD abstractiona and design patterns.

But that beeing said: It is true that with higher level languages you
abstract the parts of livecircle management with reference counted
objects, which helps you modelling.

However if you managed modelling with c++, and i insist of that it is
possible to modell in a good way in C++ (the GoF has many C++ examples,
Alexandrescus Modern C++ Design is an other good examples of the OO
capatibilities of C++) it is quite easy to learn how to make your models
in C# and VB.NET, the reverse is defenitely not true.

My opinion,
Jörg Simon
Nov 21 '05 #14

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