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Is .NET going to be dropped by Microsoft?

P: n/a
I keep hearing persistant rumors (along with my own experience) that .NET is
going to be abandon by Microsoft due to performance & security issues? I
realize no one from Microsoft is likely to confirm this publically, but if
anyone that does have insider knowledge, could you provide some feedback
(private or public). My company is on the verge of migrating to .NET, but
we've ran into several performance issues (mostly on the GUI side) and some
big security issues and we're not sure they can be resolved without a
fundamental "shift" from Microsoft. I've very hesitant to migrate all our
code over until I can get a firm grasp on where .NET is going and for how
long and what issues are going to be resolved.

Thank you.

Rob.
Nov 21 '05 #1
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41 Replies


P: n/a
No, it is not being dropped. Where did you hear such a thing?

Performance issues will be in the way you implement .NET, not in the
technology itself.

Same with security.

Feel free to post your specific problems here - or write to me directly if
you like.
--
Mike

Mike McIntyre
Visual Basic MVP
www.getdotnetcode.com

"Rob R. Ainscough" <ro*****@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:Og**************@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
I keep hearing persistant rumors (along with my own experience) that .NET
is going to be abandon by Microsoft due to performance & security issues?
I realize no one from Microsoft is likely to confirm this publically, but
if anyone that does have insider knowledge, could you provide some feedback
(private or public). My company is on the verge of migrating to .NET, but
we've ran into several performance issues (mostly on the GUI side) and some
big security issues and we're not sure they can be resolved without a
fundamental "shift" from Microsoft. I've very hesitant to migrate all our
code over until I can get a firm grasp on where .NET is going and for how
long and what issues are going to be resolved.

Thank you.

Rob.

Nov 21 '05 #2

P: n/a
Performance is more GUI specific, slow redraws/repaints of forms/controls as
compared to VB6 or VC or C++. Data gathering is pretty quick (from SQL
server or Access or whatever else), but control population is VERY slow.

Security in regards to the fundamental implementation of .NET -- since it is
one level removed interpreted (albeit, highly optimized interpretation) it
is pretty easy to swap in "rogue" code.

Another issue is the missing features in the current .NET release that make
it hard for developers to remain in the "managed" world of .NET.

My sources are from some relatively large organizations such as Bank of the
West, Bank of America, SBC, ATI, and a few others -- from senior management
and developers influential in the decision process.

Can YOU be more specific in addressing where Microsoft plan to take .NET in
the next 5 years?

Thanks, Rob.

"Mike McIntyre" <mi****@dotnetshowandtell.com> wrote in message
news:O9**************@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
No, it is not being dropped. Where did you hear such a thing?

Performance issues will be in the way you implement .NET, not in the
technology itself.

Same with security.

Feel free to post your specific problems here - or write to me directly if
you like.
--
Mike

Mike McIntyre
Visual Basic MVP
www.getdotnetcode.com

"Rob R. Ainscough" <ro*****@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:Og**************@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
I keep hearing persistant rumors (along with my own experience) that .NET
is going to be abandon by Microsoft due to performance & security issues?
I realize no one from Microsoft is likely to confirm this publically, but
if anyone that does have insider knowledge, could you provide some
feedback (private or public). My company is on the verge of migrating to
.NET, but we've ran into several performance issues (mostly on the GUI
side) and some big security issues and we're not sure they can be resolved
without a fundamental "shift" from Microsoft. I've very hesitant to
migrate all our code over until I can get a firm grasp on where .NET is
going and for how long and what issues are going to be resolved.

Thank you.

Rob.


Nov 21 '05 #3

P: n/a
On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 10:33:03 -0800, "Rob R. Ainscough"
<ro*****@pacbell.net> wrote:
I keep hearing persistant rumors (along with my own experience) that .NET is
going to be abandon by Microsoft due to performance & security issues? I
realize no one from Microsoft is likely to confirm this publically, but if
anyone that does have insider knowledge, could you provide some feedback
(private or public). My company is on the verge of migrating to .NET, but
we've ran into several performance issues (mostly on the GUI side) and some
big security issues and we're not sure they can be resolved without a
fundamental "shift" from Microsoft. I've very hesitant to migrate all our
code over until I can get a firm grasp on where .NET is going and for how
long and what issues are going to be resolved.

Thank you.

Rob.


If Microsoft was to change anything with .Net it would be with the
compiler not the language or the new programming Studio design,
because it feels much better to code with, and it encourages
programmers to code much better. For example Option Explicit is ON by
default now.

So if MS was to say "you know the whole .Net thing where doing, well
we are scrapping it" they would probably just release an update for
the compiler so it's not like you would loose any of the .Net skills
you had developed.

I don't know how any of that would effect what you are working on, but
you could always try the beta of 2005 to see if .Net 2.0 makes a
difference.
Nov 21 '05 #4

P: n/a
Rob,

"Rob R. Ainscough" <ro*****@pacbell.net> schrieb:
Performance is more GUI specific, slow redraws/repaints
of forms/controls as compared to VB6 or VC or C++. Data
gathering is pretty quick (from SQL server or Access or whatever
else), but control population is VERY slow.
There are some tricks to make UIs faster, for example, by setting some
controls' 'FlatStyle' property to 'System', avoid using lots of fonts and
background images. And, keeping the number of controls "small", which means
< 50 controls per form.
Security in regards to the fundamental implementation of .NET
-- since it is one level removed interpreted (albeit, highly optimized
interpretation) it is pretty easy to swap in "rogue" code.
Why? You can use strong names to guarantee the referential integrity of an
assembly. Sure, everybody can strong-name his/her assemblies.
'StrongNameIdentityPermission' will be extended in .NET 2.0 to allow calling
assemblies by more than one strong-named assembly. In addition to that,
there are many CAS (Code Access Security) features that can help to reduce
vulnerabilities.
Another issue is the missing features in the current .NET
release that make it hard for developers to remain in the
"managed" world of .NET.


Unmanaged code is not bad per-se. All of us used unmanaged applications for
years, and many "sensitive" applications were written using unmanaged code.
There were many security features available, and .NET provides its own
security features.

--
Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]
<URL:http://dotnet.mvps.org/>

Nov 21 '05 #5

P: n/a
On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 10:33:03 -0800, "Rob R. Ainscough"
<ro*****@pacbell.net> wrote:
I keep hearing persistant rumors (along with my own experience) that .NET is
going to be abandon by Microsoft due to performance & security issues? I
realize no one from Microsoft is likely to confirm this publically, but if
anyone that does have insider knowledge, could you provide some feedback
(private or public). My company is on the verge of migrating to .NET, but
we've ran into several performance issues (mostly on the GUI side) and some
big security issues and we're not sure they can be resolved without a
fundamental "shift" from Microsoft. I've very hesitant to migrate all our
code over until I can get a firm grasp on where .NET is going and for how
long and what issues are going to be resolved.

Thank you.

Rob.


If Microsoft was to change anything with .Net it would be with the
compiler not the language or the new programming Studio design,
because it feels much better to code with, and it encourages
programmers to code much better. For example Option Explicit is ON by
default now.

So if MS was to say "you know the whole .Net thing where doing, well
we are scrapping it" they would probably just release an update for
the compiler so it's not like you would loose any of the .Net skills
you had developed.

I don't know how any of that would effect what you are working on, but
you could always try the beta of 2005 to see if .Net 2.0 makes a
difference.
Nov 21 '05 #6

P: n/a
Rob,

"Rob R. Ainscough" <ro*****@pacbell.net> schrieb:
Performance is more GUI specific, slow redraws/repaints
of forms/controls as compared to VB6 or VC or C++. Data
gathering is pretty quick (from SQL server or Access or whatever
else), but control population is VERY slow.
There are some tricks to make UIs faster, for example, by setting some
controls' 'FlatStyle' property to 'System', avoid using lots of fonts and
background images. And, keeping the number of controls "small", which means
< 50 controls per form.
Security in regards to the fundamental implementation of .NET
-- since it is one level removed interpreted (albeit, highly optimized
interpretation) it is pretty easy to swap in "rogue" code.
Why? You can use strong names to guarantee the referential integrity of an
assembly. Sure, everybody can strong-name his/her assemblies.
'StrongNameIdentityPermission' will be extended in .NET 2.0 to allow calling
assemblies by more than one strong-named assembly. In addition to that,
there are many CAS (Code Access Security) features that can help to reduce
vulnerabilities.
Another issue is the missing features in the current .NET
release that make it hard for developers to remain in the
"managed" world of .NET.


Unmanaged code is not bad per-se. All of us used unmanaged applications for
years, and many "sensitive" applications were written using unmanaged code.
There were many security features available, and .NET provides its own
security features.

--
Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]
<URL:http://dotnet.mvps.org/>

Nov 21 '05 #7

P: n/a
Are you sure your not trolling Rob?

Richard
Nov 21 '05 #8

P: n/a
Are you sure your not trolling Rob?

Richard
Nov 21 '05 #9

P: n/a
I don't have time to troll, I need to make an important decision.
Microsoft's shift in "supported" directions have left open questions and
fear in the past -- there are some pretty significant issues with .NET and
how these issues are address now and in the future is critical to my
decision.

And I certainly don't include fa**@address.com as you do, so please none of
this "integrity" crap, I don't have time for it.

"Richard Myers" <fa**@address.com> wrote in message
news:uw**************@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
Are you sure your not trolling Rob?

Richard

Nov 21 '05 #10

P: n/a
I don't have time to troll, I need to make an important decision.
Microsoft's shift in "supported" directions have left open questions and
fear in the past -- there are some pretty significant issues with .NET and
how these issues are address now and in the future is critical to my
decision.

And I certainly don't include fa**@address.com as you do, so please none of
this "integrity" crap, I don't have time for it.

"Richard Myers" <fa**@address.com> wrote in message
news:uw**************@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
Are you sure your not trolling Rob?

Richard

Nov 21 '05 #11

P: n/a
Yes, I have noticed that the number of controls on a form does seem to
impact performance considerably -- this is part of the problem I'm talking
about in respect to the GUI -- no control arrays in .NET which is what I
used in the past. Unfortunately our product does indeed use more than 50
controls -- in some cases upto 200 controls. Not a performance problem in
VB6, but a drastic performance problem in VB.NET. Fonts are limited two and
they are system fonts.
"StrongNameIdentityPermission' will be extended in .NET 2.0 to allow
calling assemblies by more than one strong-named assembly. > In addition
to that, there are many CAS (Code Access Security) features that can help
to reduce vulnerabilities."
This is good to know, I will research this more and see if it has any
performance penalities and see if it does indeed block the security gaps.
Thank you.

I didn't say unmanaged code was bad? But it defeats the purpose of .NET
framework and distribution if one has to use unmanaged code.

I will load the 2005 Beta up and see what is new -- but for now the hurdle
of GUI performance and unmanaged code is going to control my decision to
wait for 2005 and see how .NET matures. The multi-threaded support is
certainly a nice feature of .NET, but again, my exisitng tool set seems to
provide as much and/or more functionality than .NET (and my current tools
can do it faster).

Rob.

"Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]" <hi***************@gmx.at> wrote in message
news:%2***************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl... Rob,

"Rob R. Ainscough" <ro*****@pacbell.net> schrieb:
Performance is more GUI specific, slow redraws/repaints
of forms/controls as compared to VB6 or VC or C++. Data
gathering is pretty quick (from SQL server or Access or whatever
else), but control population is VERY slow.


There are some tricks to make UIs faster, for example, by setting some
controls' 'FlatStyle' property to 'System', avoid using lots of fonts and
background images. And, keeping the number of controls "small", which
means < 50 controls per form.
Security in regards to the fundamental implementation of .NET
-- since it is one level removed interpreted (albeit, highly optimized
interpretation) it is pretty easy to swap in "rogue" code.


Why? You can use strong names to guarantee the referential integrity of
an assembly. Sure, everybody can strong-name his/her assemblies.
'StrongNameIdentityPermission' will be extended in .NET 2.0 to allow
calling assemblies by more than one strong-named assembly. In addition to
that, there are many CAS (Code Access Security) features that can help to
reduce vulnerabilities.
Another issue is the missing features in the current .NET
release that make it hard for developers to remain in the
"managed" world of .NET.


Unmanaged code is not bad per-se. All of us used unmanaged applications
for years, and many "sensitive" applications were written using unmanaged
code. There were many security features available, and .NET provides its
own security features.

--
Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]
<URL:http://dotnet.mvps.org/>

Nov 21 '05 #12

P: n/a
Yes, I have noticed that the number of controls on a form does seem to
impact performance considerably -- this is part of the problem I'm talking
about in respect to the GUI -- no control arrays in .NET which is what I
used in the past. Unfortunately our product does indeed use more than 50
controls -- in some cases upto 200 controls. Not a performance problem in
VB6, but a drastic performance problem in VB.NET. Fonts are limited two and
they are system fonts.
"StrongNameIdentityPermission' will be extended in .NET 2.0 to allow
calling assemblies by more than one strong-named assembly. > In addition
to that, there are many CAS (Code Access Security) features that can help
to reduce vulnerabilities."
This is good to know, I will research this more and see if it has any
performance penalities and see if it does indeed block the security gaps.
Thank you.

I didn't say unmanaged code was bad? But it defeats the purpose of .NET
framework and distribution if one has to use unmanaged code.

I will load the 2005 Beta up and see what is new -- but for now the hurdle
of GUI performance and unmanaged code is going to control my decision to
wait for 2005 and see how .NET matures. The multi-threaded support is
certainly a nice feature of .NET, but again, my exisitng tool set seems to
provide as much and/or more functionality than .NET (and my current tools
can do it faster).

Rob.

"Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]" <hi***************@gmx.at> wrote in message
news:%2***************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl... Rob,

"Rob R. Ainscough" <ro*****@pacbell.net> schrieb:
Performance is more GUI specific, slow redraws/repaints
of forms/controls as compared to VB6 or VC or C++. Data
gathering is pretty quick (from SQL server or Access or whatever
else), but control population is VERY slow.


There are some tricks to make UIs faster, for example, by setting some
controls' 'FlatStyle' property to 'System', avoid using lots of fonts and
background images. And, keeping the number of controls "small", which
means < 50 controls per form.
Security in regards to the fundamental implementation of .NET
-- since it is one level removed interpreted (albeit, highly optimized
interpretation) it is pretty easy to swap in "rogue" code.


Why? You can use strong names to guarantee the referential integrity of
an assembly. Sure, everybody can strong-name his/her assemblies.
'StrongNameIdentityPermission' will be extended in .NET 2.0 to allow
calling assemblies by more than one strong-named assembly. In addition to
that, there are many CAS (Code Access Security) features that can help to
reduce vulnerabilities.
Another issue is the missing features in the current .NET
release that make it hard for developers to remain in the
"managed" world of .NET.


Unmanaged code is not bad per-se. All of us used unmanaged applications
for years, and many "sensitive" applications were written using unmanaged
code. There were many security features available, and .NET provides its
own security features.

--
Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]
<URL:http://dotnet.mvps.org/>

Nov 21 '05 #13

P: n/a

"Rob R. Ainscough" <ro*****@pacbell.net> wrote
I keep hearing persistant rumors (along with my own experience) that .NET is
going to be abandon by Microsoft due to performance & security issues?


That was good for a laugh, thanks!

Do you also keep tin foil available to keep 'them' from putting thoughts into
your head? You might consider it since 'they' seem to have succeeded in
making you think managed code will be abandoned....

<g>
LFS
Nov 21 '05 #14

P: n/a

"Rob R. Ainscough" <ro*****@pacbell.net> wrote
I keep hearing persistant rumors (along with my own experience) that .NET is
going to be abandon by Microsoft due to performance & security issues?


That was good for a laugh, thanks!

Do you also keep tin foil available to keep 'them' from putting thoughts into
your head? You might consider it since 'they' seem to have succeeded in
making you think managed code will be abandoned....

<g>
LFS
Nov 21 '05 #15

P: n/a
Rob,
Performance is more GUI specific, slow redraws/repaints of forms/controls
as compared to VB6 or VC or C++.
For line-of-business applications using .NET's paint optimization features
will beat VB6 and be close enough to C++ that business users will not be
able to tell the difference. Under the most extreme situations a .NET
programmer may need to use some C# unsafe code, nGen'd MC++ or Windows API -
all of which are allowed in .NET.

----------------------
Data gathering is pretty quick (from SQL server or Access or whatever
else), but control population is VERY slow.
Asynchonous delegates and/or threading should be used here. Very fast by all
benchmarks published the past two years. Its always possible to immediately
populate the controls in context (in play on the form), give the user
control, and flow the remainder of the data asynchronously in the
background.

----------------------
Security in regards to the fundamental implementation of .NET -- since it
is one level removed interpreted (albeit, highly optimized interpretation)
it is pretty easy to swap in "rogue" code.
I have seen a few claims that this was possible the past three years but I
havn't seen a case where someone could do this against a properly
implemented .NET application running on a properly configured (security)
computer.

Right now it is possible to create some of the most secure code ever
possible with .NET.

---------------------Another issue is the missing features in the current .NET release that make
it hard for developers to remain in the "managed" world of .NET.
Personally I have never had this problem developing enterprise
line-of-business applications for my clients - one of which is Bank of
America.

--------------------
My sources are from some relatively large organizations such as Bank of the
West, Bank of America, SBC, ATI, and a few others -- from senior management
and developers influential in the decision process.
I can't dispute what you heard. What you heard is what you heard.

From my enterprise customers, others I know in the industry, and what
Gartner claims - I havn't heard anything about plans to drop .NET or that
there is some sort of wholesale issue with it.

The latest Gartner results show .NET has reached critical mass (57%) in
large to medium enterprises and that intentions for those who have not moved
yet to move to .NET in the coming 18 months is at a all time high.

My company, aZ Software Developers, has seen its JAVA contracts go from of
3/4 of our business in 2001 to about 1/5 today. Our customers mostly require
we develop new applications with .NET now.

--------------

Can YOU be more specific in addressing where Microsoft plan to take .NET in
the next 5 years?
Most Microsoft embedded device development has or is transtitioning to .NET
Framework based development.

Visual Studio 2005 - .NET Framework 2.0 In beta, release sometime after
middle of 2005.

Sql Server 2005 - In beta, release after middle of 2005. Has deep support
for Microsoft .NET Framework.

Longhorn (next generation of Windows operating system). .NET is embedded in
this, the next generation of the Windows OS slated for release in 2006.
"Longhorn" will expose APIs that are a completely managed set of class
libraries built with the .NET Framework. These APIs expose functionality
that covers the full range of interactions with the operating system,
including the user interface, graphics, storage, communications, documents,
and multimedia. The majority of "Longhorn"-based applications can be
entirely written using these new "Longhorn" managed APIs. Developing managed
code applications now positions your company to take advantage of "Longhorn"
once it is released and also offers immediate advantages.

For an indepth look at where Microsoft is taking .NET over the next five
years and beyond:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/pr...o/roadmap.aspx
------------------
While nothing is impossible, dropping .NET at this point would be like
ripping the engine out of a fighter jet in mid-air IMHO. ;-)
--
Mike

Mike McIntyre
Visual Basic MVP
www.getdotnetcode.com

"Rob R. Ainscough" <ro*****@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:ud**************@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl... Performance is more GUI specific, slow redraws/repaints of forms/controls
as compared to VB6 or VC or C++. Data gathering is pretty quick (from SQL
server or Access or whatever else), but control population is VERY slow.

Security in regards to the fundamental implementation of .NET -- since it
is one level removed interpreted (albeit, highly optimized interpretation)
it is pretty easy to swap in "rogue" code.

Another issue is the missing features in the current .NET release that
make it hard for developers to remain in the "managed" world of .NET.

My sources are from some relatively large organizations such as Bank of
the West, Bank of America, SBC, ATI, and a few others -- from senior
management and developers influential in the decision process.

Can YOU be more specific in addressing where Microsoft plan to take .NET
in the next 5 years?

Thanks, Rob.

"Mike McIntyre" <mi****@dotnetshowandtell.com> wrote in message
news:O9**************@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
No, it is not being dropped. Where did you hear such a thing?

Performance issues will be in the way you implement .NET, not in the
technology itself.

Same with security.

Feel free to post your specific problems here - or write to me directly
if you like.
--
Mike

Mike McIntyre
Visual Basic MVP
www.getdotnetcode.com

"Rob R. Ainscough" <ro*****@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:Og**************@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
I keep hearing persistant rumors (along with my own experience) that .NET
is going to be abandon by Microsoft due to performance & security issues?
I realize no one from Microsoft is likely to confirm this publically, but
if anyone that does have insider knowledge, could you provide some
feedback (private or public). My company is on the verge of migrating to
.NET, but we've ran into several performance issues (mostly on the GUI
side) and some big security issues and we're not sure they can be
resolved without a fundamental "shift" from Microsoft. I've very
hesitant to migrate all our code over until I can get a firm grasp on
where .NET is going and for how long and what issues are going to be
resolved.

Thank you.

Rob.



Nov 21 '05 #16

P: n/a
Rob,
Performance is more GUI specific, slow redraws/repaints of forms/controls
as compared to VB6 or VC or C++.
For line-of-business applications using .NET's paint optimization features
will beat VB6 and be close enough to C++ that business users will not be
able to tell the difference. Under the most extreme situations a .NET
programmer may need to use some C# unsafe code, nGen'd MC++ or Windows API -
all of which are allowed in .NET.

----------------------
Data gathering is pretty quick (from SQL server or Access or whatever
else), but control population is VERY slow.
Asynchonous delegates and/or threading should be used here. Very fast by all
benchmarks published the past two years. Its always possible to immediately
populate the controls in context (in play on the form), give the user
control, and flow the remainder of the data asynchronously in the
background.

----------------------
Security in regards to the fundamental implementation of .NET -- since it
is one level removed interpreted (albeit, highly optimized interpretation)
it is pretty easy to swap in "rogue" code.
I have seen a few claims that this was possible the past three years but I
havn't seen a case where someone could do this against a properly
implemented .NET application running on a properly configured (security)
computer.

Right now it is possible to create some of the most secure code ever
possible with .NET.

---------------------Another issue is the missing features in the current .NET release that make
it hard for developers to remain in the "managed" world of .NET.
Personally I have never had this problem developing enterprise
line-of-business applications for my clients - one of which is Bank of
America.

--------------------
My sources are from some relatively large organizations such as Bank of the
West, Bank of America, SBC, ATI, and a few others -- from senior management
and developers influential in the decision process.
I can't dispute what you heard. What you heard is what you heard.

From my enterprise customers, others I know in the industry, and what
Gartner claims - I havn't heard anything about plans to drop .NET or that
there is some sort of wholesale issue with it.

The latest Gartner results show .NET has reached critical mass (57%) in
large to medium enterprises and that intentions for those who have not moved
yet to move to .NET in the coming 18 months is at a all time high.

My company, aZ Software Developers, has seen its JAVA contracts go from of
3/4 of our business in 2001 to about 1/5 today. Our customers mostly require
we develop new applications with .NET now.

--------------

Can YOU be more specific in addressing where Microsoft plan to take .NET in
the next 5 years?
Most Microsoft embedded device development has or is transtitioning to .NET
Framework based development.

Visual Studio 2005 - .NET Framework 2.0 In beta, release sometime after
middle of 2005.

Sql Server 2005 - In beta, release after middle of 2005. Has deep support
for Microsoft .NET Framework.

Longhorn (next generation of Windows operating system). .NET is embedded in
this, the next generation of the Windows OS slated for release in 2006.
"Longhorn" will expose APIs that are a completely managed set of class
libraries built with the .NET Framework. These APIs expose functionality
that covers the full range of interactions with the operating system,
including the user interface, graphics, storage, communications, documents,
and multimedia. The majority of "Longhorn"-based applications can be
entirely written using these new "Longhorn" managed APIs. Developing managed
code applications now positions your company to take advantage of "Longhorn"
once it is released and also offers immediate advantages.

For an indepth look at where Microsoft is taking .NET over the next five
years and beyond:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/pr...o/roadmap.aspx
------------------
While nothing is impossible, dropping .NET at this point would be like
ripping the engine out of a fighter jet in mid-air IMHO. ;-)
--
Mike

Mike McIntyre
Visual Basic MVP
www.getdotnetcode.com

"Rob R. Ainscough" <ro*****@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:ud**************@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl... Performance is more GUI specific, slow redraws/repaints of forms/controls
as compared to VB6 or VC or C++. Data gathering is pretty quick (from SQL
server or Access or whatever else), but control population is VERY slow.

Security in regards to the fundamental implementation of .NET -- since it
is one level removed interpreted (albeit, highly optimized interpretation)
it is pretty easy to swap in "rogue" code.

Another issue is the missing features in the current .NET release that
make it hard for developers to remain in the "managed" world of .NET.

My sources are from some relatively large organizations such as Bank of
the West, Bank of America, SBC, ATI, and a few others -- from senior
management and developers influential in the decision process.

Can YOU be more specific in addressing where Microsoft plan to take .NET
in the next 5 years?

Thanks, Rob.

"Mike McIntyre" <mi****@dotnetshowandtell.com> wrote in message
news:O9**************@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
No, it is not being dropped. Where did you hear such a thing?

Performance issues will be in the way you implement .NET, not in the
technology itself.

Same with security.

Feel free to post your specific problems here - or write to me directly
if you like.
--
Mike

Mike McIntyre
Visual Basic MVP
www.getdotnetcode.com

"Rob R. Ainscough" <ro*****@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:Og**************@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
I keep hearing persistant rumors (along with my own experience) that .NET
is going to be abandon by Microsoft due to performance & security issues?
I realize no one from Microsoft is likely to confirm this publically, but
if anyone that does have insider knowledge, could you provide some
feedback (private or public). My company is on the verge of migrating to
.NET, but we've ran into several performance issues (mostly on the GUI
side) and some big security issues and we're not sure they can be
resolved without a fundamental "shift" from Microsoft. I've very
hesitant to migrate all our code over until I can get a firm grasp on
where .NET is going and for how long and what issues are going to be
resolved.

Thank you.

Rob.



Nov 21 '05 #17

P: n/a
Rob,

Did you know you can create control arrays in VB.NET?

Also, you can use any installed font e.g. see the example at:
http://getdotnetco.web101.discountas...?productID=192
--
Mike

Mike McIntyre
Visual Basic MVP
www.getdotnetcode.com

"Rob R. Ainscough" <ro*****@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:ez**************@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
Yes, I have noticed that the number of controls on a form does seem to
impact performance considerably -- this is part of the problem I'm talking
about in respect to the GUI -- no control arrays in .NET which is what I
used in the past. Unfortunately our product does indeed use more than 50
controls -- in some cases upto 200 controls. Not a performance problem in
VB6, but a drastic performance problem in VB.NET. Fonts are limited two
and they are system fonts.
"StrongNameIdentityPermission' will be extended in .NET 2.0 to allow
calling assemblies by more than one strong-named assembly. > In addition
to that, there are many CAS (Code Access Security) features that can help
to reduce vulnerabilities."


This is good to know, I will research this more and see if it has any
performance penalities and see if it does indeed block the security gaps.
Thank you.

I didn't say unmanaged code was bad? But it defeats the purpose of .NET
framework and distribution if one has to use unmanaged code.

I will load the 2005 Beta up and see what is new -- but for now the hurdle
of GUI performance and unmanaged code is going to control my decision to
wait for 2005 and see how .NET matures. The multi-threaded support is
certainly a nice feature of .NET, but again, my exisitng tool set seems to
provide as much and/or more functionality than .NET (and my current tools
can do it faster).

Rob.

"Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]" <hi***************@gmx.at> wrote in message
news:%2***************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
Rob,

"Rob R. Ainscough" <ro*****@pacbell.net> schrieb:
Performance is more GUI specific, slow redraws/repaints
of forms/controls as compared to VB6 or VC or C++. Data
gathering is pretty quick (from SQL server or Access or whatever
else), but control population is VERY slow.


There are some tricks to make UIs faster, for example, by setting some
controls' 'FlatStyle' property to 'System', avoid using lots of fonts and
background images. And, keeping the number of controls "small", which
means < 50 controls per form.
Security in regards to the fundamental implementation of .NET
-- since it is one level removed interpreted (albeit, highly optimized
interpretation) it is pretty easy to swap in "rogue" code.


Why? You can use strong names to guarantee the referential integrity of
an assembly. Sure, everybody can strong-name his/her assemblies.
'StrongNameIdentityPermission' will be extended in .NET 2.0 to allow
calling assemblies by more than one strong-named assembly. In addition
to that, there are many CAS (Code Access Security) features that can help
to reduce vulnerabilities.
Another issue is the missing features in the current .NET
release that make it hard for developers to remain in the
"managed" world of .NET.


Unmanaged code is not bad per-se. All of us used unmanaged applications
for years, and many "sensitive" applications were written using unmanaged
code. There were many security features available, and .NET provides its
own security features.

--
Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]
<URL:http://dotnet.mvps.org/>


Nov 21 '05 #18

P: n/a
Rob,

Did you know you can create control arrays in VB.NET?

Also, you can use any installed font e.g. see the example at:
http://getdotnetco.web101.discountas...?productID=192
--
Mike

Mike McIntyre
Visual Basic MVP
www.getdotnetcode.com

"Rob R. Ainscough" <ro*****@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:ez**************@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
Yes, I have noticed that the number of controls on a form does seem to
impact performance considerably -- this is part of the problem I'm talking
about in respect to the GUI -- no control arrays in .NET which is what I
used in the past. Unfortunately our product does indeed use more than 50
controls -- in some cases upto 200 controls. Not a performance problem in
VB6, but a drastic performance problem in VB.NET. Fonts are limited two
and they are system fonts.
"StrongNameIdentityPermission' will be extended in .NET 2.0 to allow
calling assemblies by more than one strong-named assembly. > In addition
to that, there are many CAS (Code Access Security) features that can help
to reduce vulnerabilities."


This is good to know, I will research this more and see if it has any
performance penalities and see if it does indeed block the security gaps.
Thank you.

I didn't say unmanaged code was bad? But it defeats the purpose of .NET
framework and distribution if one has to use unmanaged code.

I will load the 2005 Beta up and see what is new -- but for now the hurdle
of GUI performance and unmanaged code is going to control my decision to
wait for 2005 and see how .NET matures. The multi-threaded support is
certainly a nice feature of .NET, but again, my exisitng tool set seems to
provide as much and/or more functionality than .NET (and my current tools
can do it faster).

Rob.

"Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]" <hi***************@gmx.at> wrote in message
news:%2***************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
Rob,

"Rob R. Ainscough" <ro*****@pacbell.net> schrieb:
Performance is more GUI specific, slow redraws/repaints
of forms/controls as compared to VB6 or VC or C++. Data
gathering is pretty quick (from SQL server or Access or whatever
else), but control population is VERY slow.


There are some tricks to make UIs faster, for example, by setting some
controls' 'FlatStyle' property to 'System', avoid using lots of fonts and
background images. And, keeping the number of controls "small", which
means < 50 controls per form.
Security in regards to the fundamental implementation of .NET
-- since it is one level removed interpreted (albeit, highly optimized
interpretation) it is pretty easy to swap in "rogue" code.


Why? You can use strong names to guarantee the referential integrity of
an assembly. Sure, everybody can strong-name his/her assemblies.
'StrongNameIdentityPermission' will be extended in .NET 2.0 to allow
calling assemblies by more than one strong-named assembly. In addition
to that, there are many CAS (Code Access Security) features that can help
to reduce vulnerabilities.
Another issue is the missing features in the current .NET
release that make it hard for developers to remain in the
"managed" world of .NET.


Unmanaged code is not bad per-se. All of us used unmanaged applications
for years, and many "sensitive" applications were written using unmanaged
code. There were many security features available, and .NET provides its
own security features.

--
Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]
<URL:http://dotnet.mvps.org/>


Nov 21 '05 #19

P: n/a
Please stop the flag waving, I'm just not interested. But more importantly
stop reading more into my questions/comments than what I actually wrote.

For those of you that responded to my comments/concerns with good
information, thank you. I'll see if these suggestions can solve my current
concerns. Does anyone have specific examples of control/form paint
performance optimization? I have yet to discover a way to make a large
number of controls paint quickly in .NET.

Hopefully the next framework version will be good enough to retain full
managed business application.

Rob

"Larry Serflaten" <se*******@usinternet.com> wrote in message
news:e8**************@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...

"Rob R. Ainscough" <ro*****@pacbell.net> wrote
I keep hearing persistant rumors (along with my own experience) that .NET
is
going to be abandon by Microsoft due to performance & security issues?


That was good for a laugh, thanks!

Do you also keep tin foil available to keep 'them' from putting thoughts
into
your head? You might consider it since 'they' seem to have succeeded in
making you think managed code will be abandoned....

<g>
LFS

Nov 21 '05 #20

P: n/a
Please stop the flag waving, I'm just not interested. But more importantly
stop reading more into my questions/comments than what I actually wrote.

For those of you that responded to my comments/concerns with good
information, thank you. I'll see if these suggestions can solve my current
concerns. Does anyone have specific examples of control/form paint
performance optimization? I have yet to discover a way to make a large
number of controls paint quickly in .NET.

Hopefully the next framework version will be good enough to retain full
managed business application.

Rob

"Larry Serflaten" <se*******@usinternet.com> wrote in message
news:e8**************@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...

"Rob R. Ainscough" <ro*****@pacbell.net> wrote
I keep hearing persistant rumors (along with my own experience) that .NET
is
going to be abandon by Microsoft due to performance & security issues?


That was good for a laugh, thanks!

Do you also keep tin foil available to keep 'them' from putting thoughts
into
your head? You might consider it since 'they' seem to have succeeded in
making you think managed code will be abandoned....

<g>
LFS

Nov 21 '05 #21

P: n/a
Hi Rob,

I sent an email with more info to your ro*****@pacbell.net address and got
this:

ro*****@pacbell.net
SMTP error from remote mailer after RCPT TO:<ro*****@pacbell.net>:

host pbimail4.prodigy.net [64.164.98.64]: 553 5.3.0 <ro*****@pacbell.net>...
Addressee unknown, relay=[207.217.120.181]


--
Mike

Mike McIntyre
Visual Basic MVP
www.getdotnetcode.com
"Rob R. Ainscough" <ro*****@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:e4**************@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
I don't have time to troll, I need to make an important decision.
Microsoft's shift in "supported" directions have left open questions and
fear in the past -- there are some pretty significant issues with .NET and
how these issues are address now and in the future is critical to my
decision.

And I certainly don't include fa**@address.com as you do, so please none
of this "integrity" crap, I don't have time for it.

"Richard Myers" <fa**@address.com> wrote in message
news:uw**************@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
Are you sure your not trolling Rob?

Richard


Nov 21 '05 #22

P: n/a
Hi Rob,

I sent an email with more info to your ro*****@pacbell.net address and got
this:

ro*****@pacbell.net
SMTP error from remote mailer after RCPT TO:<ro*****@pacbell.net>:

host pbimail4.prodigy.net [64.164.98.64]: 553 5.3.0 <ro*****@pacbell.net>...
Addressee unknown, relay=[207.217.120.181]


--
Mike

Mike McIntyre
Visual Basic MVP
www.getdotnetcode.com
"Rob R. Ainscough" <ro*****@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:e4**************@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
I don't have time to troll, I need to make an important decision.
Microsoft's shift in "supported" directions have left open questions and
fear in the past -- there are some pretty significant issues with .NET and
how these issues are address now and in the future is critical to my
decision.

And I certainly don't include fa**@address.com as you do, so please none
of this "integrity" crap, I don't have time for it.

"Richard Myers" <fa**@address.com> wrote in message
news:uw**************@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
Are you sure your not trolling Rob?

Richard


Nov 21 '05 #23

P: n/a
On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 16:48:49 -0600, "Larry Serflaten"
<se*******@usinternet.com> wrote:

"Rob R. Ainscough" <ro*****@pacbell.net> wrote
I keep hearing persistant rumors (along with my own experience) that .NET is
going to be abandon by Microsoft due to performance & security issues?


That was good for a laugh, thanks!

Do you also keep tin foil available to keep 'them' from putting thoughts into
your head? You might consider it since 'they' seem to have succeeded in
making you think managed code will be abandoned....

<g>
LFS


Common give the guy break, platform decisions are fundamental and the
wrong decision can hurt.
Nov 21 '05 #24

P: n/a
On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 16:48:49 -0600, "Larry Serflaten"
<se*******@usinternet.com> wrote:

"Rob R. Ainscough" <ro*****@pacbell.net> wrote
I keep hearing persistant rumors (along with my own experience) that .NET is
going to be abandon by Microsoft due to performance & security issues?


That was good for a laugh, thanks!

Do you also keep tin foil available to keep 'them' from putting thoughts into
your head? You might consider it since 'they' seem to have succeeded in
making you think managed code will be abandoned....

<g>
LFS


Common give the guy break, platform decisions are fundamental and the
wrong decision can hurt.
Nov 21 '05 #25

P: n/a
where do they want to take it in 5yrs? they want to make it the main method
of programming in upcomming OS's.. Microsoft Windows Longhorn will depend
heavely on .NET instead of MFC for coding. .NET is not something that will
die, and is going to be implemented more and more as the years go by.
"Rob R. Ainscough" <ro*****@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:ud**************@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
Performance is more GUI specific, slow redraws/repaints of forms/controls
as compared to VB6 or VC or C++. Data gathering is pretty quick (from SQL
server or Access or whatever else), but control population is VERY slow.

Security in regards to the fundamental implementation of .NET -- since it
is one level removed interpreted (albeit, highly optimized interpretation)
it is pretty easy to swap in "rogue" code.

Another issue is the missing features in the current .NET release that
make it hard for developers to remain in the "managed" world of .NET.

My sources are from some relatively large organizations such as Bank of
the West, Bank of America, SBC, ATI, and a few others -- from senior
management and developers influential in the decision process.

Can YOU be more specific in addressing where Microsoft plan to take .NET
in the next 5 years?

Thanks, Rob.

"Mike McIntyre" <mi****@dotnetshowandtell.com> wrote in message
news:O9**************@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
No, it is not being dropped. Where did you hear such a thing?

Performance issues will be in the way you implement .NET, not in the
technology itself.

Same with security.

Feel free to post your specific problems here - or write to me directly
if you like.
--
Mike

Mike McIntyre
Visual Basic MVP
www.getdotnetcode.com

"Rob R. Ainscough" <ro*****@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:Og**************@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
I keep hearing persistant rumors (along with my own experience) that .NET
is going to be abandon by Microsoft due to performance & security issues?
I realize no one from Microsoft is likely to confirm this publically, but
if anyone that does have insider knowledge, could you provide some
feedback (private or public). My company is on the verge of migrating to
.NET, but we've ran into several performance issues (mostly on the GUI
side) and some big security issues and we're not sure they can be
resolved without a fundamental "shift" from Microsoft. I've very
hesitant to migrate all our code over until I can get a firm grasp on
where .NET is going and for how long and what issues are going to be
resolved.

Thank you.

Rob.



Nov 21 '05 #26

P: n/a
where do they want to take it in 5yrs? they want to make it the main method
of programming in upcomming OS's.. Microsoft Windows Longhorn will depend
heavely on .NET instead of MFC for coding. .NET is not something that will
die, and is going to be implemented more and more as the years go by.
"Rob R. Ainscough" <ro*****@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:ud**************@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
Performance is more GUI specific, slow redraws/repaints of forms/controls
as compared to VB6 or VC or C++. Data gathering is pretty quick (from SQL
server or Access or whatever else), but control population is VERY slow.

Security in regards to the fundamental implementation of .NET -- since it
is one level removed interpreted (albeit, highly optimized interpretation)
it is pretty easy to swap in "rogue" code.

Another issue is the missing features in the current .NET release that
make it hard for developers to remain in the "managed" world of .NET.

My sources are from some relatively large organizations such as Bank of
the West, Bank of America, SBC, ATI, and a few others -- from senior
management and developers influential in the decision process.

Can YOU be more specific in addressing where Microsoft plan to take .NET
in the next 5 years?

Thanks, Rob.

"Mike McIntyre" <mi****@dotnetshowandtell.com> wrote in message
news:O9**************@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
No, it is not being dropped. Where did you hear such a thing?

Performance issues will be in the way you implement .NET, not in the
technology itself.

Same with security.

Feel free to post your specific problems here - or write to me directly
if you like.
--
Mike

Mike McIntyre
Visual Basic MVP
www.getdotnetcode.com

"Rob R. Ainscough" <ro*****@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:Og**************@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
I keep hearing persistant rumors (along with my own experience) that .NET
is going to be abandon by Microsoft due to performance & security issues?
I realize no one from Microsoft is likely to confirm this publically, but
if anyone that does have insider knowledge, could you provide some
feedback (private or public). My company is on the verge of migrating to
.NET, but we've ran into several performance issues (mostly on the GUI
side) and some big security issues and we're not sure they can be
resolved without a fundamental "shift" from Microsoft. I've very
hesitant to migrate all our code over until I can get a firm grasp on
where .NET is going and for how long and what issues are going to be
resolved.

Thank you.

Rob.



Nov 21 '05 #27

P: n/a
Rob,

AFAIK are they droping the that awfull unsearchable word ".Net" in their
productnames.

By instance what could have been Visual Studio .Net 2005 will be named
something as Visual Studio 2005.

However that is an upgrade from the Visual Studo .Net 2003 not from Visual
Studio 6

Cor

"Rob R. Ainscough" <ro*****@pacbell.net>
I keep hearing persistant rumors (along with my own experience) that .NET
is going to be abandon by Microsoft due to performance & security issues?
I realize no one from Microsoft is likely to confirm this publically, but
if anyone that does have insider knowledge, could you provide some feedback
(private or public). My company is on the verge of migrating to .NET, but
we've ran into several performance issues (mostly on the GUI side) and some
big security issues and we're not sure they can be resolved without a
fundamental "shift" from Microsoft. I've very hesitant to migrate all our
code over until I can get a firm grasp on where .NET is going and for how
long and what issues are going to be resolved.

Thank you.

Rob.

Nov 21 '05 #28

P: n/a
Rob,

AFAIK are they droping the that awfull unsearchable word ".Net" in their
productnames.

By instance what could have been Visual Studio .Net 2005 will be named
something as Visual Studio 2005.

However that is an upgrade from the Visual Studo .Net 2003 not from Visual
Studio 6

Cor

"Rob R. Ainscough" <ro*****@pacbell.net>
I keep hearing persistant rumors (along with my own experience) that .NET
is going to be abandon by Microsoft due to performance & security issues?
I realize no one from Microsoft is likely to confirm this publically, but
if anyone that does have insider knowledge, could you provide some feedback
(private or public). My company is on the verge of migrating to .NET, but
we've ran into several performance issues (mostly on the GUI side) and some
big security issues and we're not sure they can be resolved without a
fundamental "shift" from Microsoft. I've very hesitant to migrate all our
code over until I can get a firm grasp on where .NET is going and for how
long and what issues are going to be resolved.

Thank you.

Rob.

Nov 21 '05 #29

P: n/a
SLAP. How many times is he going to say things like "I am just not
interested" and "I haven't got time". Please don't reply to this
thread as he is just trolling.

MS dropping .NET? Ridiculous. Are they going to drop Windows next?
Rob - for someone supposedly making "key business decisions" you seem
pretty stupid. Another perfect example of "the peter principle" here.

Nov 21 '05 #30

P: n/a
SLAP. How many times is he going to say things like "I am just not
interested" and "I haven't got time". Please don't reply to this
thread as he is just trolling.

MS dropping .NET? Ridiculous. Are they going to drop Windows next?
Rob - for someone supposedly making "key business decisions" you seem
pretty stupid. Another perfect example of "the peter principle" here.

Nov 21 '05 #31

P: n/a
According to a recent competion among developers of different
technologies, .Net code turned out to be the most secure code due to the
high security layers of .Net. So, you can safely migrate to .Net. Have
no fears.

with regards,
J.V.Ravichandran
- http://www.geocities.com/
jvravichandran
- http://www.411asp.net/func/search?
qry=Ravichandran+J.V.&cob=aspnetpro
- http://www.southasianoutlook.com
- http://www.MSDNAA.Net
- http://www.csharphelp.com
- http://www.poetry.com/Publications/
display.asp?ID=P3966388&BN=999&PN=2
- Or, just search on "J.V.Ravichandran"
at http://www.Google.com

*** Sent via Developersdex http://www.developersdex.com ***
Don't just participate in USENET...get rewarded for it!
Nov 21 '05 #32

P: n/a
According to a recent competion among developers of different
technologies, .Net code turned out to be the most secure code due to the
high security layers of .Net. So, you can safely migrate to .Net. Have
no fears.

with regards,
J.V.Ravichandran
- http://www.geocities.com/
jvravichandran
- http://www.411asp.net/func/search?
qry=Ravichandran+J.V.&cob=aspnetpro
- http://www.southasianoutlook.com
- http://www.MSDNAA.Net
- http://www.csharphelp.com
- http://www.poetry.com/Publications/
display.asp?ID=P3966388&BN=999&PN=2
- Or, just search on "J.V.Ravichandran"
at http://www.Google.com

*** Sent via Developersdex http://www.developersdex.com ***
Don't just participate in USENET...get rewarded for it!
Nov 21 '05 #33

P: n/a
Richard,

"Richard Myers" <fa**@address.com> schrieb:
[Microsoft dropping .NET?]
Common give the guy break, platform decisions are fundamental
and the wrong decision can hurt.


Sure they can which is exactly the reason why he should be
choosing dotNet. But i wouldn't be basing a "platform" decision
on whether some control array paints fast enough or not.


I would do that. For example, I would not choose Java/Swing for UI
applications because it's slow, and controls don't look the same as the
native controls on a platform. This would lead to a very bad
user experience and little chance to sell the application. But compared to
Java's UIs, Windows Forms are in general *really* fast.
And frankly i wouldn;t have anyone prone to believing such
ridiculous rumours making any decisions, let alone one
so important.


I agree, but I think that's the reason why the OP asked the question.

--
Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]
<URL:http://dotnet.mvps.org/>

Nov 21 '05 #34

P: n/a
Richard,

"Richard Myers" <fa**@address.com> schrieb:
[Microsoft dropping .NET?]
Common give the guy break, platform decisions are fundamental
and the wrong decision can hurt.


Sure they can which is exactly the reason why he should be
choosing dotNet. But i wouldn't be basing a "platform" decision
on whether some control array paints fast enough or not.


I would do that. For example, I would not choose Java/Swing for UI
applications because it's slow, and controls don't look the same as the
native controls on a platform. This would lead to a very bad
user experience and little chance to sell the application. But compared to
Java's UIs, Windows Forms are in general *really* fast.
And frankly i wouldn;t have anyone prone to believing such
ridiculous rumours making any decisions, let alone one
so important.


I agree, but I think that's the reason why the OP asked the question.

--
Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]
<URL:http://dotnet.mvps.org/>

Nov 21 '05 #35

P: n/a
Thank you for the wealth of good information you have provided Peter -- so
explicit and meaningful, makes me really want to embrass .NET especially
with such an intelligent response as yours -- I can see now how I am so
obviously stupid.

Rob.

<go************@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:11**********************@z14g2000cwz.googlegr oups.com...
SLAP. How many times is he going to say things like "I am just not
interested" and "I haven't got time". Please don't reply to this
thread as he is just trolling.

MS dropping .NET? Ridiculous. Are they going to drop Windows next?
Rob - for someone supposedly making "key business decisions" you seem
pretty stupid. Another perfect example of "the peter principle" here.

Nov 21 '05 #36

P: n/a
Thank you for the wealth of good information you have provided Peter -- so
explicit and meaningful, makes me really want to embrass .NET especially
with such an intelligent response as yours -- I can see now how I am so
obviously stupid.

Rob.

<go************@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:11**********************@z14g2000cwz.googlegr oups.com...
SLAP. How many times is he going to say things like "I am just not
interested" and "I haven't got time". Please don't reply to this
thread as he is just trolling.

MS dropping .NET? Ridiculous. Are they going to drop Windows next?
Rob - for someone supposedly making "key business decisions" you seem
pretty stupid. Another perfect example of "the peter principle" here.

Nov 21 '05 #37

P: n/a
So I can assume you have seen the issue with slow .NET control/form paints?

Commenting on my user base without knowing what user base is certainly
looses some credibility on your part. My user base is probably at the level
of McDonalds operator, a button for each Reg Coke, Med Coke, Large Coke --
in fact my user base doesn't know that buttons are single click not double
click and they often double click everything. To provide a "please wait
message" while a form loads doesn't sit well with them and most of my
clients/users are running old out dated hardware (PIII's with 128MB).

I don't live in a glass bubble as some of you obviously do. Slow screen/GUI
responses have a very negative impact and can and does move potential
customers to look at other competitors (and this is NOT even a web based
app). My clients don't care what I used to development the tool they plan
to buy & use -- they just want the tool to be fast.

If you want to be constructive and provide specific links or samples on how
to speed up a .NET WinForm, please do.

Rob.

"Richard Myers" <fa**@address.com> wrote in message
news:eo**************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...

"koorb" <ko***@raidrs.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ki********************************@4ax.com...
On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 16:48:49 -0600, "Larry Serflaten"
<se*******@usinternet.com> wrote:
>
>"Rob R. Ainscough" <ro*****@pacbell.net> wrote
>> I keep hearing persistant rumors (along with my own experience) that
>> .NET is
>> going to be abandon by Microsoft due to performance & security issues?
>
>That was good for a laugh, thanks!
>
>Do you also keep tin foil available to keep 'them' from putting thoughts
>into
>your head? You might consider it since 'they' seem to have succeeded in
>making you think managed code will be abandoned....
>
><g>
>LFS


Common give the guy break, platform decisions are fundamental and the
wrong decision can hurt.


Sure they can which is exactly the reason why he should be choosing
dotNet. But i wouldn't be basing
a "platform" decision on whether some control array paints fast enough or
not. And frankly i
wouldn;t have anyone prone to believing such ridiculous rumours making any
decisions, let alone one
so important. I mean they just baked CLR into Yukon for christs sake and
what, has he never heard of
Longhorn?

Maybe i should have been more serious when i asked if he was trolling?
You're not are you Rob?

Richard
fa**@address.com

Nov 21 '05 #38

P: n/a
So I can assume you have seen the issue with slow .NET control/form paints?

Commenting on my user base without knowing what user base is certainly
looses some credibility on your part. My user base is probably at the level
of McDonalds operator, a button for each Reg Coke, Med Coke, Large Coke --
in fact my user base doesn't know that buttons are single click not double
click and they often double click everything. To provide a "please wait
message" while a form loads doesn't sit well with them and most of my
clients/users are running old out dated hardware (PIII's with 128MB).

I don't live in a glass bubble as some of you obviously do. Slow screen/GUI
responses have a very negative impact and can and does move potential
customers to look at other competitors (and this is NOT even a web based
app). My clients don't care what I used to development the tool they plan
to buy & use -- they just want the tool to be fast.

If you want to be constructive and provide specific links or samples on how
to speed up a .NET WinForm, please do.

Rob.

"Richard Myers" <fa**@address.com> wrote in message
news:eo**************@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...

"koorb" <ko***@raidrs.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ki********************************@4ax.com...
On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 16:48:49 -0600, "Larry Serflaten"
<se*******@usinternet.com> wrote:
>
>"Rob R. Ainscough" <ro*****@pacbell.net> wrote
>> I keep hearing persistant rumors (along with my own experience) that
>> .NET is
>> going to be abandon by Microsoft due to performance & security issues?
>
>That was good for a laugh, thanks!
>
>Do you also keep tin foil available to keep 'them' from putting thoughts
>into
>your head? You might consider it since 'they' seem to have succeeded in
>making you think managed code will be abandoned....
>
><g>
>LFS


Common give the guy break, platform decisions are fundamental and the
wrong decision can hurt.


Sure they can which is exactly the reason why he should be choosing
dotNet. But i wouldn't be basing
a "platform" decision on whether some control array paints fast enough or
not. And frankly i
wouldn;t have anyone prone to believing such ridiculous rumours making any
decisions, let alone one
so important. I mean they just baked CLR into Yukon for christs sake and
what, has he never heard of
Longhorn?

Maybe i should have been more serious when i asked if he was trolling?
You're not are you Rob?

Richard
fa**@address.com

Nov 21 '05 #39

P: n/a
ROTFLMAO! My name isn't peter you idiot! Why not re-read it AGAIN? I
said "Another perfect example of "the peter principle" here".

Oh dear, quick to attack, quick to say stupid things, but slow to gain
intelligence.

Nov 21 '05 #40

P: n/a
Obi-one-stupid one -- gee, really your name isn't Peter -- clueless turd.

<go************@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:11*********************@c13g2000cwb.googlegro ups.com...
ROTFLMAO! My name isn't peter you idiot! Why not re-read it AGAIN? I
said "Another perfect example of "the peter principle" here".

Oh dear, quick to attack, quick to say stupid things, but slow to gain
intelligence.

Nov 21 '05 #41

P: n/a
I thought you "just do not have the time" and "are just too busy" for
posting flames? Me? I have loads of time for this.
Please remove your head from your arse before posting.

Nov 21 '05 #42

This discussion thread is closed

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